Many have tried to answer some of my questions on my end of the year entry. To be honest, most of the answers were not helpful nor convincing. There are two or three biggies out there that really deserve a response. I post this again at the risk of people saying I am repetitive, but maybe if the answers were not the same old stuff, we could move forward. For those that have trouble discerning what I feel are important points, I have made them bold!
- Why a compensation plan takes 12 pages to define. (Giving up on this one. It just does.)
- How YTB arrived at $226 Million in travel sold for 2006. (Still waiting.)
- Why so little of the "training" at the annual convention was for travel. (OK, YTB only believes in training at other meetings. We can let this one go.)
- How nearly 150,000 RTAs can pay in the course of 9 months $79 million dollars in website sales, fees, and training; and receive $9.3 million in return. (This is huge...anyone?)
- And for those that say I don't get the math, I did not learn how nearly 150,000 people paid in $79 million dollars and only got $64 million in return. (Hello? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?)
- Why it is a good thing to have your top executives selling off stock. (There were no takers on this one, so I am gonna assume that it probably is NOT a good thing as everyone initially thought.)
- Why a 3:1 split was a good deal when two of the three shares are worthless. (Thanks to Doug for the most reasonable explanation of this. The split may have been a good deal but with the current value of the stock, it is anyone's guess.)
- Why employees at YTB could not sell me a cruise on November 9th. (Still no answer on this one yet other than they don;t do anything till an RTA sells it. Well, the YTB site said to call them. Coach in an interview was touting how the res center is all staffed with professional agents. So, why is it that they cannot sell me a cruise, and how is it that they do not know that cruises do not depart from Phoenix?)
- Why when presented with facts and figures, the argument mysteriously turns to "you don't understand". (This is another one that we will just have to say...because that is the way it is.)
- How many RTAs drop out in a month...a year..... (This number I fear will NEVER be known.)
- How long does an RTA continue to pay the fee before canceling. (Answered. They continue to pay as long as YTB continues to charge them and they jump through the hoops to get them to stop.)
- How it is a misunderstanding with IATAN and Royal Caribbean. (Answered. It apparently was NOT a misunderstanding and RCCL called a spade a spade and it is what it is. YTB has moved on and said they would never do business with RCCL again.)
- How the air gets booked -- through a YTB ARC number or a Travelocity number. (This is the biggie. No answer other than the errant dribble from a director about it being a cruise misunderstanding. When a RTA sells an airline ticket, who's ARC number does the sale get attributed to when processing via IAR...is it a YTB number or a Travelocity number?)
- What exactly the insurance covers that YTB claims covers all of the RTAs. (Still iffy. Apparently there is some insurance with an E&O ring to it, but no one seems to know what it specifically covers. If I can get an answer to the question above, I might have a better understanding on this one.)
- The number of RTAs and Reps that actually comply with local business licensing regulations. (We will let this one go. They cannot control what they say, or their press releases, so why would I be so naive as to think they could control that they abide byu any local laws and statutes? I am going to assume that most attempt to fly under the radar here. In all honesty, I probably would as well. Why invest more money being bonded and registered and in compliance when you are seeing so little in return? It can always be written off as a hobby rather than a business I suppose...hmmmm imagine that...a hobby??)
- The number of RTAs that comply with the Seller of Travel laws in the states that have them. (See answer to question above.)
- Why there have been no updated RTA earning reports since July 2007. Never mind I know--too embarrassing. (Answered my own question.)
- How a company can offer health insurance and not have the people classified as employees. (No answer on this one either.)
- Why all Reps and RTAs are afraid of divulging a ballpark figure of their earnings for fear of the SEC coming down on them. (Answered, because the "Coach" did not call that play. Reps and RTAs must clear all statements through YTB, except some must have special dispensation to spew crap at will--you guys know who you are, no need to name names.)
- Why, out of over 300,000 views of my column, was not one single RTA able to step up to the challenge and prove that they are earning a living selling travel. (Good question.)
- Why people involved in one MLM that did not work for them, seem to gravitate toward another. I smacked my dog in the nose enough times and he knows not to pee on the carpet. (Dogs are smarter than a lot of people that become involved in these type of programs.)
John;
ReplyDeleteA TON of questions my friend.
I don’t have time to answer them all right now, but can I do a post on it on my blog? (I also think it might be a little long here.)
I have a very busy day planned and can’t get to it right now, but I DO have answers and do want to respond.
If that feasible and fair?
John - I thin it's fair for doug to that, but maybe he can post the answers on both blogs - write it once and post it twice???
ReplyDeleteI think that a columnist should be able to get the answers himself if he was any good.
ReplyDeleteIf a columnist had any true fans and believers, this columnist should get an audience with ytb corporate to perhaps once and for all get the answers.
But - where could we find a columnist like that???
Tom
That's "columnist" not "investigative reporter". Really Tom - the interesting issue here is that there are plenty of YTBers here, but they don't seem able or willing to answer any questions at all - except for Doug - he is a gentleman and a scholar.
ReplyDeleteStock up to 1.01 then back to $1. I knew with the heavy trading that someone was trying to keep it afloat. I just knew there was something going on. I think we will see it dip below a dollar...right on target!
ReplyDeleteAnd for those that say stock doesn't mean anything, actually it does, its a reflextion of those investing in a company, its a reflextion of how everyone views YTB as a company. Its called "LEVERAGE".
Malique2 aka ytbscam,
ReplyDeleteWho cares about the price mid-day?
Let us know when it hits below $1 at closing - then start your crowing.
Now - go practice some law . . .
Tom
Whats the matter CM? Guess the "great news" isn't so great now is it? AMAZING!!!
ReplyDeleteYTBSCAM said...
ReplyDelete"Stock up to 1.01 then back to $1. I knew with the heavy trading that someone was trying to keep it afloat. I just knew there was something going on. I think we will see it dip below a dollar...right on target!"
Two "I knew's" and one "I think".
Damn Karnack you are magnficient!
I stated that it was my opinion....Mr. Scorekeeper...thats what Blogs are all about.
ReplyDeleteLet me guess are you TM, EAB, or CM...my bet is your one of the above!!!
Let me guess are you TM, EAB, or CM...my bet is your one of the above!!!
ReplyDeleteNow your guessing? What kind of Karnack are you? The Ole Scorekeeper can't hold a candle to that trio.
BTW Scam, what's with all the !!!. Do you really get all that excited when YTB stock goes down a penny?
John said, "Why so little of the "training" at the annual convention was for travel."
ReplyDeleteDid you mean "why so little" travel training? Or, why so little in comparison with other subject matter presented at the convention?
Here is a list of "training" that occured at the convention that I attended. Most of these break-out sessions were about travel, but I also included some concerning operating your business in a proper manner. The convention this fall, from what I hear, will even contain more travel training.
Avoid Turbulence
in Booking Cruises
How to make a cruise reservation from start to finish!
This seminar will make your life easier! Hidden secrets
to make the process a smooth sale for you! This
seminar does not contain any information regarding
the YTB booking engine. It is designed for those
RTAs that will have a more hands on approach with
their customers.
Instructor: Ann Sedgwick–Business Development
-----------------------------------
Character Building and
Self Esteem Growth with YTB
Learn that doing the right thing is important, even
when no one else is around or watching you. This
class will break down the characterstics of RESPECT
and show you how to use these to prosper!
Instructor: James “Bonecrusher” Smith–
-----------------------------------
Easy $ailing: Charting Successful
Group Cruises
This class will help you answer the five “W”
questions: who, what, when, where, and why. We’ll
also discuss how to protect your sale, luring your
group passengers in and keeping them anchored to
the group by choosing to play by the rules. And
finally, you’ll learn how to get your passengers to the
pier and cast your lures to hook future “catches”.
Instructors: Barbara Braveboy-Locklear
& Horace Locklear–Level 1 Directors
-----------------------------------
Get Familiar with Your Booking Engine and
Travel Portal–Know Your Product
Your booking engine is convenience at its best with
one-stop reservations for so much more than airlines
and hotels. Learn how everything needed for travel is
right at our finger tips. Learn how to become an
efficient, independent RTA by using your tool box
and training areas. And probably the most asked
question… WHEN do we get paid? Bring your pen
and paper to this session! You won’t want to miss a
note.
Instructor: Jeanie Sharpless–Level 1 Director
----------------------------------
Protecting Our Integrity
Come join our discussion about protecting the
integrity of YTB. We'll be teaching about the
company, the owners, the Travel Network and
YourTravelBiz.com. You don't want to miss this great
opportunity to take a look at the integrity of YTB and
how we can choose to continue working in that
integrity as individual RTAs.
Instructors: Tim & Georgia Dominey–Level 2 Directors
Terry & Pamela Graham–Level 1 Directors
Glenn & Starla Green–Level 1 Directors
----------------------------------
Groups: They Do a Business Good!
10 out of 10 travel agents recommend groups to
enhance your business. Side effects should include
building a network of people for repeat business; not
only for groups, but for individual travel as well. Of
course we all like to earn MONEY for our efforts, but
did I mention FUN? Fun is a side effect too!
Instructor: Tami Goad–YTBTN Director of Travel
Marketing
----------------------------------
High Altitude Earnings through Group Travel
What you need to know! It will include how to find
groups, the most successful types of groups, finding
the best price, offering group amenities and tips to
getting your groups to repeat! Grow your business
through groups!
Instructor: Ann Sedgwick–Business Development
Director, Carnival Cruise Lines
----------------------------------
How to Sell Escorted Tours:
Emphasis on Australia/New Zealand
Learn how to sell escorted tours with Collette
Vacations. We’ll discuss all escorted tours in general
and have more specific information on Australian and
New Zealand tours.
Instructor: Kevin M. Kramich–Executive VP,
Collette Vacations
---------------------------------
International Consolidator Airfares–
Passport to Profits
Come find out how air consolidation really works.
We’ll be discussing the truths and myths. How to use
the YTB consolidator booking engine. We’ll also learn
about Discount International Business airfare and
First Class airfare.
Instructor: John Przywara–Owner and Founder,
International Vacations
---------------------------------
Mastering your Booking Engine
Still trying to figure out your online booking engine?
Learn from Level One Director and 23 year travel
industry veteran, Kevin Fitzgerald, how to quickly
master the ins and outs of your virtual travel agency.
Instructor: Kevin Fitzgerald–Level 1 Director
----------------------------------
Running It Like a Business
The difference between running your YTB
organization like a hobby or like a business
determines whether the IRS will allow your
deductions or not. This class becomes an essential
weapon in your tax planning arsenal. You will learn
what the IRS is looking for and what you can do to
run a better business for both tax and income
purposes. Tips, tools and examples will reinforce your
armor against an IRS attack. This class will give you a
whole new appreciation for your YTB business.
Instructor: Andy Magnus–CPA
---------------------------------
Smooth Landing and Smooth Sales
Find out the various programs that Carnival offers to
make your sales easier whether it be for non-profits,
corporations or family & friends! After a brief
introduction to the travel business, this seminar
information is going to be all about the tools
for RTAs!
Instructor: Ann Sedgwick–Business Development
Director, Carnival Cruise Lines
----------------------------------
Tax Benefits of your YTB Home Based
Business
You will discover how to have fun playing the tax
game and learn some answers to your burning
questions: “What can I deduct?” “What should I call
it on my tax return?” and “What records should I
keep?”. Examples and tools will enhance your
learning experience. Time will be available at the end
for questions. You will leave this class overflowing
with laughter and new ideas.
Instructors: Andy Magnus–CPA
----------------------------------
What is Your Niche?
Come and learn to find your niche in the travel
market. Find out how you can take advantage of this
specialty market and how you can make money
selling niche travel. We’ll talk about your most
important resources… time, talent, and technology!
Instructors: Shelly Coppersmith–
YTBTN, Vice President of Marketing
----------------------------------
What’s New with Apple Vacations and our
#1 Top Selling Destination–Cancun
“What is new with Apple Vacations?” This class will
give you the answer! It will also inform you about the
“new Cancun”–—it’s bigger and better then ever!
We’ll discuss new hotels, updates on mall/retail areas,
beaches, restaurants, nightlife, and more! In addition,
we’ll discuss the Rivieria Maya and all it has to offer!
Instructor: Angie Sievers–Sales Manager,
Apple Vacations
I have to say that's a good line-up of training and it mirrors about half of what one will see most Host or Consortia conferences. What seems to be missing - with the exception of Apple - is good in depth product training with the TOs and Cruise Lines.
ReplyDeleteA bottom feeder cruise line, 2 second rate TO's and a course on how to protect their integrity? They have to teach a course on protecting their integrity? Sad.
ReplyDeleteI'll do my best:
ReplyDelete1. Why a compensation plan takes 12 pages to define.
-If you look at it, page 1 is a title page and page 12 is blank. So out of 10 pages, 1 describes the difference between and RTA and a REP, 4 pages describe the commissions earned, 2 explain the Director Program and 3 are the "Bill of Rights." Why? I don't know, but like you said, it just does.
8. Why employees at YTB could not sell me a cruise on November 9th.
-From what I understand, Coach required all employees at YTB to take phone calls, not just the travel people. So out of almost 300 employees, almost a third are travel specialists. However 2/3 are not. So if you're having an IT guy take your call to help with the volume of calls, you either have to buy a certificate, call your RTA or if you are an RTA call the vendor to help with the booking. Apparently a number of travel people were not taking calls that came in and only dealt with transfers.
11. How long does an RTA continue to pay the fee before canceling.
-Most likely longer than the five day refund guarantee window. I don't know about jumping through hoops. All you have to do is sumbit a cancellation in writing, like you would for most other things you cancel (insurance for example).
18. How a company can offer health insurance and not have the people classified as employees.
-As long as you (the company) do not pay any part of the insurance for the people, you are okay. Usually companies that offer employees health insurance purchase it from a supplier then give it to the employees for a cheaper rate or for free. By having a company come in and offer it to them directly, they are not technically your employee since they purchase it from the supplier and pay them.
That's all I have. You can go ahead and ridicule at will :)
Scorekeeper--please list the other training that was offered in St. Louis for everyone to see. And I did not check my agenda, but I do not recall those topics in St. Louis.
ReplyDeleteJust a general note and an observation. This entry has been posted now twice in the last three weeks and just as it was the first time, there are no real answers at all.
Doug is working on some of them he tells me, and CM rather than offer anything resembling intelligence just says go find it yourself.
Well, I am not the insider at YTB that he is so I ask the question.
#2-7, I know nothing about math and stock.
ReplyDelete9 & 10, not in YTB, so I probably make the list of those not understanding.
12-17, again, I don't understand.
19-21, ditto. Besides, dogs are pretty smart. At least mine is, even those she is scared of cats.
ELemenopee--
ReplyDeleteThanks. Does explain a lot and I appreciate it.
No ridiculing--in the future I woudl not advertise to call a number to book your travel and have it staffed by a majority of people who are clueless.
On the insurance deal. I find it hard to believe that you can do that legally without classifying them as an employee. If it were the case, why can I not pay the premium for IBM's health plan? In MD, my group health insurance rates are based on a survey of my total employees regardless if they are enrolled or not. When the average age goes up--so do the premiums, but I could not offer the program to a bunch of youngsters.
I can now cross off a few of my questions!
John
ReplyDeleteThat is one of the loopholes (out of many) in insurance. I sold insurance for about 5 years in Missouri, so it's possible that it's only in certain states (I'm only licensed in IL and MO). I mainly worked with companies and actually brokered the insurance. If a company did not have the bankroll to supply their employees with insurace, we would help them find a pretty low cost carrier and have them work directly with them. The employee directly purchases the insurace from the supplier, and the employer is otherwise not involved. Granted, it's pretty shitty insurance, as I'm sure YTBs is. But for people that don't have any it's better than nothing.
Now for the director insurance, which is paid for by YTB, as long as those people get a tax form from YTB (a 1099 will suffice) YTB is in the clear. They are considered an employee, but not in the usual sense of the word. They are someone that YTB must claim because they paid them more than 600 over the course of a year.
The 3 for 1 split was simply a dilution. What it did was allow the insiders to keep the full voting shares (Class B non-trading) while selling additional fractional-voting shares to the public. You can't sell the Class be shares without converting them first to Class A shares. See http://www.ytbi.com/investor/8507_stocksplit.pdf for complete details.
ReplyDeleteSo the big shareholders got a bunch of super-voting stock they could keep for themselves to use to control the company, while selling the fractional voting shares off to raise cash for themselves. If they really needed cash, they could convert Class B shares to Class A shares to sell, without threating control, since the shares then lose 90% of their voting power.
Pretty slick trick, don't you think?
Sorry, a little off topic but not much going on here anyway. What do you think about YTB's explosion-expansion to these countries?
ReplyDeleteYTB International Expands to Canada, Bermuda, and the Bahamas
Online Travel Agency Continues Growth
WOOD RIVER, Ill., Jan 16, 2008 /PRNewswire-FirstCall via COMTEX/ -- YTB International, Inc. (Pink Sheets: YTBLA) ("YTB" or the "Company"), a leading provider of Internet-based travel booking services for travel agencies and home-based independent representatives in the United States, announced today that the Company is expanding its services into Canada, the Bahamas, and Bermuda.
YTB Bahamas opened on January 11, 2008, and YTB Canada and YTB Bermuda are scheduled to open in early February, 2008. With YTB's expansion, reps and Referring Travel Affiliates (RTAs) living in these locations can sell travel through YTB websites and market online travel agencies to others in the U.S., Puerto Rico, the Bahamas, Bermuda and Canada.
"We are pleased to take 'international' to a whole new level at YTB," said J. Kim Sorensen, President and CEO of YTB Travel Network. "We have done international trips from day one, but now we can expand the reach of our team to cover all of North America and into the Caribbean. This means even better opportunities for our RTAs and reps, and solidifies YTB's travel agency status."
YTB's executive and legal teams worked diligently with the regulatory bodies in each country to ensure that the Company meets or exceeds the standards in each region. In addition, new RTAs are able to take advantage of the same extensive training available to U.S.-based RTAs. YTB will also be holding onsite certification training in the Bahamas, Bermuda and Canada.
"This is a truly exciting time for YTB executives, RTAs, and consumers buying travel through YTB. It also shows that people are embracing the idea of buying online travel and taking advantage of fantastic trips, including YTB's exclusive package for the Beijing Olympics," said Derek Avera, Vice President of International Business Development at YTB. "The addition of Canada, Bermuda, and the Bahamas represents the first step in YTB's international expansion plan. We look forward to adding even more countries to the YTB International family over the next year."
YTB International is now recognized as a bonded travel agency in Canada and will add three offices in Canada. The Company will also hold kick-off meetings in Vancouver on February 9, 2008 and Toronto on February 16, 2008 to provide more information about the Company and the opportunities.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete"A bottom feeder cruise line, 2 second rate TO's and a course on how to protect their integrity? They have to teach a course on protecting their integrity? Sad."
Hey anon, your burger flipping remarks are casting light on your IQ rating. Teaching a course on "protecting their integrity is "sad"? Are you nuts? I have been employed for nearly 30 years with a fortune 500 company that is constantly training its employees to be compliant with state and federal regulators. Of course anon, if you are a burger flipper, your only concern would be how long to cook my Egg McMuffin on the grill.
"Bottom feeder cruise line"?
Watch out anon, you might be on a collision course in your little skiff. Carnival is the world's largest multiple-night cruise line on the basis of number of passengers and revenue. It serves the cruise market through brands, such as Carnival Cruise Lines, Princess, P&O, Cunard, and Costa Cruises; the premium market through Holland America Line; and the luxury market through Windstar Cruises and Seabourn Cruise Line.
Scorekeeper, there is a difference between being compliant with state and federal regulations, and maintaining the integrity of the company. State and federal regulations are notorious for changing at a moments notice. The integrity of a company should never, ever change. Sit down and think about it.
ReplyDeleteIf you were a travel agent, which you have stated you are not, you would know that there is a difference between Carnival and her sister lines. Carnival Cruise Lines, while being the largest cruise line in the world, is the bottom feeder cruise line. It is tacky and gauche. Her sister lines, the ones that you have enumerated, and the sales reps that visit with travel agents, have gone out of their way to indicate to us that they do not embrace the MLM world the way that Carnival does. If you were a travel agent, you would have understood the fact that I was speaking of the individual cruise line, and not the parent company.
Scorekeeper, you are in the insurance industry. We are in the travel industry. While there may be some subtle similiarities, there are glaring differences. You will notice that none of us in the travel industry have made seemingly concrete statements regarding the insurance industry, because we don't know the industry. I would ask, that since you are not in the travel industry, and truly don't know the ins and outs, that you refrain from making the same type of seeming concrete statements regarding our profession.
I would like YTB for doing exactly almost to the day, what I said it would. Stocks slip below a dollar!!!
ReplyDeleteThis wasn't yesterday or todays prediction. I predicted this 2 weeks ago. Welcome back to the world of PENNY STOCKS!!
Stock at $.99 right now. I guess this is leverage right?
As far as "integrity of the company" goes, no matter what compny you are in, there are guidelines set forth for you to follow so that you do protect the integrity of the company.
ReplyDeleteProud to be YTB said...
ReplyDeleteAs far as "integrity of the company" goes, no matter what compny you are in, there are guidelines set forth for you to follow so that you do protect the integrity of the company.
Yes, and it should be a no brainer that you want to protect the integrity of the company that you're with. That's why it's so ludicrous that YTB has to actually teach a course on how to do it!
Anon said, "Yes, and it should be a no brainer that you want to protect the integrity of the company that you're with. That's why it's so ludicrous that YTB has to actually teach a course on how to do it!"
ReplyDeleteAnon, you are so wrong about that. Many large and small companies have classroom training sessions as well as online training about protecting the integrity of their companies. Look at their Code of Conduct, publications. Mine has two sections devoted to "Maintaining Integrity and Fairness In The Workplace" and also the marketplace.
If you don't get this Anon, I'm not going to waste any more time on the subject.
I am not sure what the definition of integrity is and what the curriculum entails, but it might be able to be kicked up a notch!
ReplyDeleteI am just thinking on some of the statements, fibs, lies, exaggerations, harassing comments and emails, threats, and so forth that multiple RTAs are guilty of (and the TTAs are as well but they are also not screaming about how they have integrity courses).
Whatever scorekeeper. It's obvious you don't understand subtleties, or any of it for that matter.
ReplyDeleteBig difference between IN the workplace, and what the public sees and deals with.
But, you're right. You don't get it, so I'm not going to waste my time on you. You admittedly know nothing of the travel industry, so please stop acting as if you do.
Anon said, "Big difference between IN the workplace, and what the public sees and deals with."
ReplyDeleteolescorekeeper said, "Maintaining Integrity and Fairness In The Workplace" and also the marketplace."
You missed that last part Anon!
Case closed!
Case still open.....so your company, in their code of conduct, has 2 sections on maintaining integrity in the workplace and marketplace. Big whoop. As you said, many companies have that, and it references PERSONAL integrity. It used to be called morals clauses in contracts of employment, where you could be fired for acts of personal moral turpitude. Go look it up. Has absolutly nothing to do with the integrity of a company as a whole.
ReplyDeleteNow, case closed.