It seems as if Carnival may be coming around. Maybe the new CEO Gerry Cahill is taking a look at this from a financial angle!
It appears that Carnival, effective immediately, is requiring any individual agent to have sold 5 cruise in the prior 12 months before being offered any discounted travel or FAMs. So there goes a huge recruiting tool from the YTB Book of Recruitment.
Per Vicki Freed:
"There are so many different business models out there in the travel distribution system now that it is becoming increasingly important to ensure that only professional travel agents who are actively promoting and selling cruises are receiving travel agent discounts," said Vicki Freed, Carnival's senior vice president of sales and guest services....which I think is a bit of backpedaling since when we spoke she stated that Carnival had no means to track an individual's sales. I did not believe it then and apparently for good reason.
So, how does one sell "traveling like an insider" and traveling on hugely "discounted rates" when the #1 supplier of YTB has now clamped down. Here is a novel concept--sell travel and not the website! To a few in YTB this has no impact (as it has no impact on the traditional agents who have supported Carnival for many years), but for the vast majority of people who signed up for the CLIA card, the IATAN card, and the discounted cruises on Carnival---they will need to re-evaluate the value of the $50/month they are paying!
All in all, I see this as the right move by Carnival even though it is a move to save a little face as well. I think RCI has the right idea, and egos will not allow that admission at Carnival so this is the answer!
I am a YTB RTA and I applaud Carnival for taking this step.
ReplyDeleteThis won't hurt our recruiting in the least. It's just adds another goal for us to reach as is the case with YTB requiring $1500 in travel sales beginning Jan 1, 2008.
While you folks may think (or hope) this is bad news for YTB, think again. MLM people are very goal minded when it comes to working their business.
Hats off to Carnival!
JF, I noticed you got Vicki's statement from Travel Weekly. Did you notice what it said at the top of the article?
ReplyDeleteThis Page is Protected by Copyright Laws - DO NOT COPY.
I agree for the producing RTAs this is not an issue. For the 100,000 that do not produce it is a huge issue.
ReplyDeleteIf they are not getting their cheap insider travel, they are not going to be paying the $5M a month for useless websites. Nor are you going to be able to entice recruits as you have in the past on the "travel like a pro" spiel.
As an aside, there was a blurb in TW too that I thought was pretty good:
• Multilevel marketers, by whatever name, will continue to attract traveler-sellers to what are, in some cases, little more than costly travel clubs. But by aggregating the many sales of small producers, the MLMs will deliver impressive numbers for suppliers, forcing all players to reconsider what constitutes a "legitimate" travel intermediary. That often heated discussion will continue to liven Travel Weekly's pages.
MLM is little more than a costly travel club and it is forcing the industry to define a legitimate travel agent. I say BRAVO. And if this changes as I feel it will, you will find that not only are perks and benefits going to be eliminated or severely curtailed, but that travel commissions to the MLM crowd will be slashed considerable--likely to a finders fee.
If that happens, YTB is done as we know it unless they reinvent and go legitimate as a host. Which would be fine. But how do you sell it? Say you earn $25 per booking and it costs you $500 to join and $50 a month. You need two bookings per month at minimum to break even. And when you cannot sell THAT, you certainly are not going to be able to sell the REP portion of the deal either!
The link was provided it is not being reproduced for commercial purposes.
ReplyDeleteWhat's the matter...don't you like her message?
Actually, this prevents the YTBers from lying, as now to "travel like an insider" you have to be professional about it!
ReplyDeleteQuoting JF.."To a few in YTB this has no impact (as it has no impact on the traditional agents who have supported Carnival for many years...)
ReplyDeleteLet's see. You have a little over 85,000 traditional TA's that, according to Carnival, on average book less then 10 cruises a year. Sounds to me your below average TA's are not going to get their FAM trips and discounts.
Anonymous--good thing you are a coward and will not put your name out there for others, but if you have a kid in grade school--ask them about reading. They might help you.
ReplyDeleteI said that it has no impact on the traditional travel agents (pay attention here) who have supported Carnival over the years.
What Vicki did not disclose and there is no way to tell, but many agents in fact do not support Carnival in lieu of other products...just like YTB does not support RCCL.
So for the agents that supported Carnival this has no impact. For YTB it is huge--Carnival is their Ichi Ban vendor! The received the "Penicle Award" three years in a row. And even Vicki disputed that at the Home Based Show in Vegas--she thought it was only one!
$1500 in travel sales? That's ridiculous! That just proves they're not serious - I do that on a slow day!
ReplyDeleteAnd ahem ... that's less than 10 cruises a year on Carnival - because it's not the best value for our clients.
I've already booked (though not yet all deposited) 10 cruises since Monday (and I'm not a cruise-only agent) - they are on Cunard, Regent Seven Seas, Royal Caribbean, and Princess. Three are on Cunard.
Funny, we had a Costa Rep in today - he says they are not "embracing the MLMers per headquarters". I find this very interesting - so far I've heard this from most of the Carnival sister lines' Reps so it seems that only the Queen of Tacky, Vikki Freed is embracing you hacks. And now it's an "arm's length" embrace!
See now theres the difference between me and the poster above. I could honestly care less if Carnival ever gave me a discount or FAM..Honestly. I couldnt tell you the last time I even requested such. Its about time they realize that you don't get what you don't deserve. If you are working and selling the product, then you've earned it. Just because you paid for your CLIA card, call yourself an agent and let your website do the work doesnt mean you've earned anything.
ReplyDeleteCarnival is the tackiest cruise line out there, and why anyone would want to sail on them, even at a reduced rate, is beyond me.
ReplyDeleteLOL Tacky! Well, most of the MLM folks will not be around much for three days because they are on Coach's Birthday Bash on the Tacky Sensation!
ReplyDeleteJF said, "The link was provided it is not being reproduced for commercial purposes."
ReplyDeleteAgreed, but....even your own personal use could be a violation of US copyright laws.
You might want to go back and read TW's Proprietary Rights notice before you copy anything again.
Thanks for the tip F. Lee. I will get on that first thing in the morning.
ReplyDeleteAnd I assume you have never quoted anything in TW either .... right?
Avoid the issue...misdirect...thats all your doing. If your with YTB you already know the proverbial crap has hit the fan.
ReplyDelete"JF, I noticed you got Vicki's statement from Travel Weekly. Did you notice what it said at the top of the article?
ReplyDelete"This Page is Protected by Copyright Laws - DO NOT COPY."
Your implication is false. You need to familiarize yourself with the "Fair Use" provisions of the federal copyright laws which permit uses such as John's. And yes, such use can be commercial in nature.
Classic MLM MO deflect criticism and get on another topic. Except for 1 or 2 YTB on here who actually can debate the issue, the rest of you are nothing but a bunch of co-dependents and enablers.
ReplyDeleteOK- then Vicki's statement came from Travel Trade, or maybe the press release Carnival sent out to the media
ReplyDeleteActually, Vicki said this regarding the other MLM travel agencies out there. Since YTB has been a huge sales producer for Carnival, Vicki wonders why other MLM travel agencies can't also produce sales for Carnival.
ReplyDeleteAbout the Pinacle Award, I personally witnessed 2 of them being given out. Another person of whom I knew for many years... who is a level 3 director has witnessed all of them being handed to YTB.
To Anonymous (who is also YTB)
ReplyDelete"Let's see. You have a little over 85,000 traditional TA's that, according to Carnival, on average book less then 10 cruises a year. Sounds to me your below average TA's are not going to get their FAM trips and discounts."
To correct you, that's 10,000 cruises a year... not 10. No agency has ever booked over 10,000 cruises in a year.
Press Release Source: YTB International, Inc.
ReplyDeleteYTB International Chairman Lloyd 'Coach' Tomer Gives Birthday Present to Top Travel Sellers
Wednesday January 9, 5:09 pm ET
Travel Company Reserves Entire Carnival Cruise Ship to Celebrate
WOOD RIVER, Ill., Jan. 9 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ - YTB International, Inc. (Pink Sheets: YTBLA - News; YTB), a leading provider of Internet-based travel booking services for travel agencies and home-based independent representatives in the United States, today announced that the company's top one thousand Reps and Referring Travel Agents (RTAs) will join chairman and founder Lloyd "Coach" Tomer for Coach's Annual Birthday Bash cruise. This year's celebration, the largest in company history, will be a three-day Carnival Sensation Cruise to the Bahamas, where the company has reserved the entire ship.
"I am so honored to spend my birthday with YTB RTAs and Reps who make up the heart and soul of the company. There is no one I'd rather celebrate with," said Coach Tomer. "It is great to see these parties get bigger and bigger every year as our YTB family continues to grow. I'm also pleased for the opportunity to give back to our sales team for all of the hard work they do every day."
Birthday Bash attendees, more than 2,000 people, include YTB Sales Directors, the top 500 Reps in Power Team sales, and the 500 RTAs who sold the most travel between August 18 - December 2, 2007. This includes cruises, tours, and vacation packages. This year the average sales for Birthday Bash attendees far exceeded any previous year, which shows the growing strength of the company's travel sales. In fact, YTB was named by Travel Weekly as one of the top eleven leisure travel agencies and the 35th largest overall seller of travel in 2006. The company's exclusive packages to the Beijing Olympics will certainly help grow those numbers further in 2008.
About YTB International
Recognized as the 35th largest seller of travel in the U.S. in 2006 by Travel Weekly, YTB International, Inc. provides Internet-based travel booking services for travel agencies and home-based independent representatives in the United States, Puerto Rico, and the US Virgin Islands. It operates through three subsidiaries: YourTravelBiz.com, Inc., YTB Travel Network, Inc., and REZconnect Technologies, Inc. YourTravelBiz.com division focuses on marketing online travel agencies through a nationwide network of independent business people, known as 'Reps.' YTB Travel Network division establishes and maintains travel vendor relationships, books travel transactions of online travel agents (RTAs, now numbering more than 135,000), collects travel commissions and pays sales commissions. Each RTA sells travel through a personalized Internet-based travel website. The REZconnect Technologies division builds online reservation systems for suppliers within the travel industry. For more information, visit http://www.ytbi.com/investor.
Statements about the Company's future expectations, including future revenues and earnings, and all other statements in this press release other than historical facts are "forward-looking statements" within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933, Section 21E of the Securities Exchange of 1934, and as that term is defined in the Private Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Such forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties and are subject to change at any time, and the Company's actual results could differ materially from expected results. The Company undertakes no obligation to update forward-looking statements to reflect subsequently occurring events or circumstances.
Wow a press release by YTB once again. WHO CARES! Disguise your wining butt but begging for people to join you on your "Birthday Bash", next thing you know, Coach will be celebrating EVERYDAY of the year as his B-Day bash.
ReplyDeleteCarnival is coming around and its only a matter of time before you lose their support entirely. YTB is failing. Once the news gets out they are screwed. But I'm sure you will hear of NO press release about having to sell 5 cruises a year.
Proud--you are funny--just like the RCI notice and the IATAN notice "Oh, this must apply to someone else, they certainly cannot mean YTB." We will see. Why not see if you or your downline can book a discounted cruise and let me know. I am sure you will come back with a "it's a misunderstanding and Coach is getting it fixed"
ReplyDeleteProud--again stop talking about what you don not know. Vicki did say that there were 85,000 agents/agencies booking less than 10 cabins a year. Carnival wants to weed them out. Maybe they are not effective sales people, maybe they support other products. And as for no agency selling 10,000 cruises in a year...again, how ignorant of you. Have you heard of American Express, AAA< Carlson Wagonlit Travel, Cruise Holidays, Cruise Brothers, Mann Travel & Cruises, The Travel Authority, and I am sure a bunch more that book 10,000 cruises a year. I mean if YTB can claim to sell 13,000 in a day, why can't other agencies sell it in a year?
Thanks for the press release...I did not get my invite, but I sure as hell would be bringing my own bottled water on THAT cruise!
And Proud--why aren't you on your way to the port? I am assuming you are joining the Coach for his bash aren't you?
Why is it that when something comes out it is never meant for "YTB". Why wouldn't it refer to you? It refers to everyone. YTB is not a special entity in the travel field..not even close in my eyes. IATAN, wasnt for YTB, RCCL wasnt about YTB, now CCL is not about YTB...wake up and smell the coffee.
ReplyDeleteHey John... there's a great invention called a laptop. This is a computer I can bring everywhere I go... even on a cruise.
ReplyDeleteJohn said, "Vicki did say that there were 85,000 agents/agencies booking less than 10 cabins a year."
ReplyDeleteActually it's worse then that. She said 80% of those 85,000 traditional agents book less then 10 cabins a year.
Sorry, meant "better" not "worse".
ReplyDeleteLisa,
ReplyDeleteYTB is generating sales for Carnival... that's why.
Its not about generating sales as a whole. Its about generating sales as an individual. THIS APPLYS TO THE AGENT...NOT THE AGENCY. CWT gives a boatload of business to Carnival, that does not mean the new hire in my office is entitled to get a discounted rate, she hasn't sold anything yet. THATS WHY THIS IS PERFECT. Just because YTB does business, doesn't mean the RTA's who don't sell anything, get anything!
ReplyDeleteI am aware of laptops Proud---and yes, you can bring them and use them on many cruise lines.
ReplyDeleteBut, here is a question for you....did you make the team this year? Were you one of the hand selected top 2000 in the YTB family to get an invite to the Birthday Bash?
Again, no need for long evasive answers--yes or no!
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteJohn said, "Vicki did say that there were 85,000 agents/agencies booking less than 10 cabins a year."
Actually it's worse then that. She said 80% of those 85,000 traditional agents book less then 10 cabins a year.
January 10, 2008 11:18 AM
ONCE AGAIN - THAT'S ON CARNIVAL - AND IT'S BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW THAT OTHER LINES (EVEN CARNIVAL'S SISTER-LINES) ARE A MUCH BETTER VALUE FOR OUR CLIENTS.
IS THERE A REASON YOU ALL CAN'T UNDERSTAND THAT?
Exactly. I just booked 44 cabins on NCL, and in one whole day..not a year, and I'm not even a vacation agent. I do know however, that I personally will not sell Carnival, as I think their product is tacky..but thats my opinion.
ReplyDeleteYes, and just a few minutes I finished blocking Alaska group space for July (yes, July - hard to believe that it is still out there) - NOT on Carnival - 36 cabins (dbls, some trip and quad) all balcony and suite. A family group just fell in my lap. They researched the Agency on-line, but "really wanted to work with a human being"...hmmm, what a surprise!
ReplyDeleteThey researched the Agency on-line, but "really wanted to work with a human being"...
ReplyDeleteMust have been by phone. This way they never would have seen your feathers. lol
Not many feathers in the caps over at YTB...
ReplyDeleteI wonder how all the new recruits feel now that all the perks they were promised at the meetings is drying up. I predict another record year for YTB...but it's a record number of people dropping out.
"Must have been by phone. This way they never would have seen your feathers. lol"
ReplyDeleteHey, Tom. Kiss, kiss. Love you too.
Sincerely,
Old Hen
I think I'd rather be an old hen than an old goat.
ReplyDeleteActually, researched the Agency, called, made an appointment and came in. You're an idiot Tom and will never, ever get it.
ReplyDeletejohn said - " And if this changes as I feel it will, you will find that not only are perks and benefits going to be eliminated or severely curtailed, but that travel commissions to the MLM crowd will be slashed considerable--likely to a finders fee. "
ReplyDeleteThis will never happen John. The suppliers may go to a net model - but, they certainly do not want to have to police where the sale came from. Wishful thinking - but wrong.
Lisa said - " Exactly. I just booked 44 cabins on NCL, and in one whole day..not a year, and I'm not even a vacation agent. I do know however, that I personally will not sell Carnival, as I think their product is tacky..but thats my opinion. "
LOL - like NCL is any better than CCL - too funny . . .
Tom
p.s. - I'm flattered that you guys think I was actually posting. LOL @ the old hens . . .
p.p.s. - John can tell you that by my ip address - those others were not myself . . .
Tom, many suppliers have affiliate programs where they pay a "finders fee" or very low commission. Sandals for one. Even your sign shop could sell Sandals and I believe it is like a 1% commission for any booking. This might indeed be something the other vendors are looking at seriously.
ReplyDeleteOn the IP addresses...nope, cannot tell that from here. This a a google hosted blog and I suspect they can see them, but we cannot. You can check with Doug if you do not believe me.
No Tom, NCL is not much better then CCL but I would take NCL over Ghetto cruise anyday. The client wanted inexpensive and from NYC. I am even going with them to make sure its a smooth trip. Customer Service at Sea. And no, I aint goin for free either, cause the group leader got the TC, and in return is already booking another group cruse for next year. On RCCL.
ReplyDeleteYou can old hen us all you want. I'm 36 years old, probably younger then your annoying ass. Even if I'm not, I sure the hell have been in this industry for longer, and working with a company thats #2 in the travel sales. Not website sales, not flower sales, not bull$hit sales...actual travel. Wow..novel concept I know. When your little MLM companie surpasses the $22 billion dollar mark, you let me know
Off to take my kids to Disney. Ya'll have fun. I'll try to check in from my mom's in Florida if I feel the urge to vent. :)
Hey, I thought I'd just check in while going through my e-mail.
ReplyDeleteYes John, I am one of the selected, but as for who, and which list... you will never know.
Gotta go! I'll be back when I come back.
Proud---someone does not believe youy and asked if you could take a photo of the daily on board paper they produce showing the date. Maybe pose it on a chaise by the pool. No need to come out of the closet....personally.
ReplyDeleteTravelLisa said...
ReplyDelete"No Tom, NCL is not much better then CCL but I would take NCL over Ghetto cruise anyday."
Ghetto? CCL? Was that meant to be some form of a racial insult? Maybe CCL should talk with your employer!
Ghetto is not a racial slur. It simply means that its the bottom of the cruise line barrel. Don't protest to know me, as I have friends in every racial cirle. Want to call my employer..please do so. It's my opinion, I personally do not like CCL, never have.
ReplyDeleteGhetto: 1. a section of a city, esp. a thickly populated slum area, inhabited predominantly by members of an ethnic or other minority group, often as a result of social or economic restrictions, pressures, or hardships.
ReplyDeleteGhetto: 1. a section of a city, esp. a thickly populated slum area, inhabited predominantly by members of an ethnic or other minority group, often as a result of social or economic restrictions, pressures, or hardships.
ReplyDeleteSo, your point is? Carnival is an entry level cruise experience and usually (not always) populated by members that are suffering economic restrictions or hardships. Not sure anyone would disagree with that!