OK, on January 23rd, I ventured over to see the Founders Tour and hear Scott Tomer speak. The irony of the location was not lost on me--it was held in a building that used to be a Church and is located in the shadows of a huge Cathedral (which replaced that Church).
I was not sure to expect a dozen people or a hundred, but when I got there, I was shocked. I am guessing there were close to 800 people in attendance. It seemed like the parking lot was stacked with the high end luxury cars near the front door--interestingly enough, no Cocaine White Bentleys.
The group was primarily Reps and RTAs. When asked for the guests to raise their hands, I am guessing there may have been 40-50. There were approximately 30 Directors there in the front row.
Now Scott is a fantastic speaker, dare I say preacher. I truly enjoyed hearing his thoughts and humor. None of his comments were anything we have not heard from the YTB crowd in the last few months:
- Barry Diller spent $5 billion on Expedia and you can buy the same thing for $500
- Travelocity spends $5 million per week in advertising and we pay that out to you
- YTB was the one company that spotted the trend for travel and the internet back in 2001
- You do not need any education to do our business. I have 2 hours of college education and some people waste 4 years to get where I am
- Our goal is to be a Fortune 500 Company
- The Funshine in Orlando was "the largest travel event in the travel industry"
- With YTB you can go to China with air, hotel and most meals for 9 days for $1500 and we will pay you $200 commission to boot
- This year, YTB paid out $30M in leadership bonuses
- Without you we will fail. With you , we can't be stopped
The entire thing was very revivalistic and preachy. Again, not a surprise. It seemed to me that the purpose of this meeting was not to recruit (since there were so few guests) but to reinvigorate a sales force that may not be producing as well as hoped.
Sure there were many successful people there, but I have to say the vast majority were (just like the RTAs) not earning much (if anything) with YTB. And when your people are not making anything, the pyramid begins to crumble and fall.
Eventually, the pool of candidates for recruiting will dry up and there will be no more commissions to be had on the marketing end--everyone will be getting free websites and booking their own travel. Then honestly if commission is still around, the only earning will be 60% of the commissions earned on their personal travel. It is unsustainable!
The show ended on an impromptu note (although it was completely scripted). When the host director was speaking, Scott was on the side of the room on his way out "on the phone", he goes back to the director and interrupts him with an announcement. "This just in" -- a director in the room had "just" made Level 4 and would receive a $250K bonus. He did not mention it was in stock--might as well let the 800 people believe it is a cash bonus. It was a great moment and very exciting for many I am sure. As to why it was all scripted, as soon as it was announced, the director came up and had a 15 minute speech completely prepared. The speech was replete with the adulations to the Tomers and YTB. Of course there was the pitch to the guests to sign up tonight and tomorrow you too could be one quarter million dollars richer. He went on to encourage people to put it on their credit card and then sell more sites in the first month and get your YTB commission before the bill was even due.
As I said, totally scripted and the purpose--to reinvigorate a stalled sales force. We already know about the earnings on the RTA side, and in tomorrow's post, I will have some very interesting figures on the Rep side.
John, you didn't get a picture taken of yourself with Tomer? I'm a little disappointed.
ReplyDeleteScripted you don't jest? lol
ReplyDeleteWow imagine that not knowing you just made 250k then having a speech prepared! Talk about being on the ball! Yes, I'm being sarcastic, it probably wasn't even a director but as you said a scripted way of trying to get your sales people excited. Its also funny that everything from recruitment meetings to the larged meetings like this are all scripted. And this is why you have a cultish behavior. First the preeching and now this...lol
I arrived very shortly before the program started and the room was mostly full. It seemed they were anxious to get started so I did not stand in line for a photo op. My loss?
ReplyDelete"Eventually, the pool of candidates for recruiting will dry up and there will be no more commissions to be had on the marketing end--everyone will be getting free websites and booking their own travel.
ReplyDeleteReally? Everyone will have their own website? That's great news! There are only 136,000 RTAs in the entire country, and there are 136,000 people within two miles of my house! I'd better get busy!
Then honestly if commission is still around, the only earning will be 60% of the commissions earned on their personal travel."
... and really bad news for TAs!
Funny you should decide to pick on that comment because Scott also said one of his goals was to have ALL travel booked through YTB and people's personal sites. The Level 3 Director at the other meeting alsdo echoed that saying that in so many years he envisions everyone in every family having their own YTB website--mom, dad, kids, etc. So, before you go touting that at the next meeting, you may want to see what your leaders aare thinking.
ReplyDeleteAs for the net environment--traditional travel agents are well prepared for that. What is it that you make on an airline ticket $3.60? What do I? $45. See, we have been working some travel types in the net environment for a long time. Trust me, many are prepared. Many more will go out of business, but those that are planning and are shrewd will survive and prosper just like we did when the airlines cut out commissions.
So you have no qualms about charging a $45 "service charge" or "booking fee" on a domestic flight? What would your position be if RTAs did that?
ReplyDeleteThe RTA's wouldn't be able to. Because with that service fee actually comes services, years of knowledge, reporting, 24 hour on call service, research, and every other bit of "extra" care we provide. We do not point them to a faceless website and tell the, here book it yourself. Hence the reason the clients pay it. Do you not think that if we were not worth the fee they would pay it?
ReplyDeletePretty much what she said. It is not like the client gets nothing for their dollars. Clients expect more and YTB is not designed to do more than tell them to go to the website.
ReplyDeleteDo you get weather alerts and proactively re-route your clients to avoid airport weather delays? We do and all we do is blackberry to them telling them "change of plans, DL Flt 123 via Atlanta arriving home at 850pm. Conf CBVHTJ" and it is done. We also negotiate special rates for clients who travel on a particular carrier--can you get a WT+ fare from SEA to LHR for $399RT and a CW seat for $2499RT any day of the week?
See much more than pointing to a website!
John,
ReplyDeleteHow many are in the U.S. alone? How many are there in Canada?
How many people are there in the world?
What I'm trying to say is that it will take years before EVERYONE in the world will have their own website through YTB. By that time, you will already be 6 feet under. I will be 6 feet under. My great great great grandkids (which i have none yet) will all be 6 feet under. The year will probably be 3007... if it is even possible for EVERYONE to have their own website.
About the bonus:
Yes it was scripted, because the Director has either already received the real check or received an e-mail confirming that the bonus was sent out. Do you actually think YTB waits for a special event to happen before they hand out the bonuses?
Scripted or not, the mainm point is that the bonuses are real, and they are sent out.
And Proud honey check every state's Attorney General site and BBB and you will find a ton of recruited RTA's disillusioned and wanting their money back. YTB preys on the emotions of the down trodden, out of work, uneducated and poor promising them the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. There isn't a pot of gold. The top makes the money and the rest struggle to pay bills and are either too stubborn to see it, naive or just don't get it.
ReplyDeleteThe bonuses are in stock. That has already been proven. SO there is no real check or any real cash. I am not sure what the vesting requirements are, but I imagine he is not able to do anything with that money (like pay his bills like he said) for quite some time. And, if the stock continues to slide and eventually becomes worthless, well, he has a nice certificate to hang on his wall and still bills to pay.
ReplyDeleteI already know that YTB is not gonna recruit the whole world. There are many more folks in the world that see the truth and see through the smoke and mirrors than buy into the program. The fact is that at some point (and I bet it is sooner than later) your recruiting pool is going to dry up.
You can already see a decline in the number of recruits per day in YTB in the last six months. At one point you were doing 500 a day. Now it is closer to 300. So the pool is drying up for sure and once you spend a few weeks or months without a recruit...you are going to become dissuaded with YTB and bail out.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThe only ones who quit are the ones who get in and do next to nothing with it. Although we tell them they are in control of their own success or failure, they somehow still want the world handed to them on a silver platter. YTB didn't fail them. they failed themselves. If someone stays focused with YTB, the help is there for them. YTB isn't for everyone. Not everyone will have what it takes. Yes, it takes time. Yes, it takes effort, and yes it takes an understanding of the what you have in front of you! If you treat YTB as a business, it will pay like a business. If you treat YTB as just a hobby, it will pay that way. It all boils down to how the person who joins YTB treats it. If they treat it like a hobby, they will lose interest and leave. That's fine. It just makes more room for the business-minded people to come in and build.
What gets me is that some people who leave... who didn't put enough of themselves into the business are the ones to cry, "YTB failed me!" No, YTB did not fail them. They failed themselves.
Proud,
ReplyDeleteOnce again what you fail to see is that YTB only stands afloat by the website sales. Not by your "travel" sales. How many times do we have to go over it? I can already see the excuses when YTB is buried. Well its the fault of everyone not selling travel.
In YTBs world everyone is selling travel...how can that be, if everyone is selling travel whom do you have for clients? I guess you can't see this either.
Everytime I read about the Tomers, it seems as if they are trying to set you all up. Saying we "need you", we can't make it "without you", "we need your help to make this work".....name a excuse. Its a setup for failure. Prey on peoples emotions, promise them riches....typical scam. While you keep paying your $50 a month. And when it fails, I will bet that they say we didn't make it because everyone didn't "buy" into it, and that all the people out there against it, was the reason for failure.
Proud that may be true for a few.
ReplyDeleteWhen you give your upstanding recruitment presentation without flaws, do you tell the recruits the following facts?
The average YTB Rep earned less than $400 last year.
Nearly a quarter million Reps earned nothing last year.
That way less than 1% of Reps will ever rise to the level where they earn an average of more than $25,000 per year.
Are these facts disclosed in your presentations? I admire you for the success you have made in the program and your fancy cars and wild tax deductions. Good for you. But good for the rest--not so much.
Scam, did mention at all "selling travel" in the above comments? NO! All I mentioned was the effort a person puts into the business.
ReplyDeleteYou, my friend haven't got a clue as to what you are talking about. Unlike John, you have made absolutely NO effort to even go to a meeting and see first hand what YTB is about. Instead, you just follow the coat-tails of all the other nay-sayers.
Typo correction from last comment.
ReplyDeleteFirst line should have read
"did I mention..."
John, yes we do tell people the averages when we tell them the company statement which clearly states that there is NO guarantee for success in YTB. What this means is that if you do nothing, you get nothing.
Yes, the average is real, because unfortunately, there are still people in YTB who have not done anything yet. That's their choice.
Proud,
ReplyDeleteSo now your not selling travel and in the business of recruiting? Thanks for clearing that up once again. You don't know if your coming or going.
lisa said -
ReplyDelete" The RTA's wouldn't be able to. "
Sure they can.
They actually have the ability to add in service fees if they wish.
Once again an old hen agent thinking she knows everything . . .
john said -
" Do you get weather alerts and proactively re-route your clients to avoid airport weather delays? "
LOL - man, even Orbitz does this. Travelocity (yb's partner) does as well.
Case in point - I booked my son a flight home for Christmas through ytb. His plane leaving DFW had mechanical problems. ytb (travelocity) emailed and text my son to notify him of the change, assigned him a new seat on the next available flight (which was actually a different carrier) and even emailed me ( the purchaser ) of the situation.
All the above for a $5 service fee AND it was automated. The ytb travel agent was never bothered, and the client was given top notch service. I love automation.
LOL - you old hens actually think you are alone in the service category. You - are sadly mistaken!
Tom
Tom a mechanical problem is different. I am talking about other aspects of service. What about the special WT+ and CW fares? Reporting? Negotiating? Policy Compliance etc?
ReplyDeleteTom,
ReplyDeleteFor all the millions of travel you made...you didn't make the cruise, still waiting for the answer on that one. Let me guess...'there was a misunderstanding, and you were "supposed" to be invited right? AMAZING!
Tom,
ReplyDeleteThe old hen comment is getting quite old. As I stated before, your idiotic name calling is amusing. Must you resort to that?
Yes, travelocity will notify the client of certain things, but it does not provide the other services other agencies provide. My office has numerous overrides, discounts with carriers, respected consolidators, reporting, 24 hour on call service, mileage assistance, we even have a music management division that handles some famous names with their "on the road" schedules. Are they going to book with an online company and not be assured privacy? Hell no. Is travelocity or any YTB agent going to go and assist 500 passengers who had to be completely rebooked within a days notice due to hurricane? Are they going to be on call when a group departs?..or travel with them for that matter?
I didn't say they couldn't "physically" charge the client the fee..I'm sure they can. But what service would they offer to do so?
A few years ago we were involved in heavy business travel that required the mandatory use of a CWT agency. I can't tell you how many times the agent(s) got our travel arrangement's so fouled up. I mean everything from flights to hotel accommodations, rental cars and limo's. It was a 7 year nightmare that finally ended with the ability to book on-line. We left CWT and booked with Cheep Tickets, and then later on, exclusively with Expedia. Finally the frustration in our travel arrangement's improved dramatically as we booked on-line reducing greatly the human error factor. And, no "service fees" to boot! I no longer will pay $45 to get the wrong seat location on an airplane.
ReplyDeleteI can "see" and book it for myself on-line.
Maybe things have improved in the last few years, but we will never go back to the traditional brick and mortar agency to book any domestic business and personal travel.
I'm sorry that you had such a horrible experience with your agency. But alot has changed. Many of our clients have a self booking tool linked to our office. They like it, they book themselves if they wish, and its still reported with the company properly, discounts are still obtained and when they need to change we take care of everything. We had a client using Expedia, they now use our office and the on-line product..and they love it. They get to book on-line and see their own choices, and they also get the support they need.
ReplyDeleteForgot to add that both Orbitz (who owns Cheap tickets) and Expedia charge service fees on airline tickets. It may not be the $20+ fee some agencies charge, but it also doesnt give you the same services either.
ReplyDeleteTravelLisa, interesting...thank you. Sounds as if things have improved. My exeriences with your agency is several years ago and I do believe CWT, in my mind, is still a premier travel agency.
ReplyDeleteOlescorekeeper - one of the reasons a lot of corporations book with a travel agency is for accounting purposes. TRAMS and other back office systems can spit out reports on how much they spent, fares, service fees, exchanges, etc. Keeping track of that on Orbitz, Cheap Tickets or Expedia is not possible.
ReplyDeleteSorry about the delete..I jumped the ok gun.
ReplyDeleteOle, you also have to keep in mind that CWT is a large chain of agencies. So while one CWT office may not have been so great, there are others of us :) that are. I work for a CWT agency, actually with the leaders group division which is the best of the best. I'm not bragging..its just there are many divisions as its such a big travel company. They are well respected and do quite a bit of producing, so the "extras" clients get are often worth it.
And Andrew you are correct, while MAJORITY of the corporations want detailed reporting, un-used ticket tracking..they also want to ensure that their employees are abiding by the travel policy. The online companies above cannot police this, where as an agency can.
We also track our travelers--something that is a big plus if you are required to comply with the SOA. At any given point, I can look on a world map and see where we have travelers. Click on the dot and see a list of their names arrival and departure dates and company name, click on the name and I have their complete PNR available to me.
ReplyDeleteIt is a third party program that pulls the PNRs as they are issued and costs us a decent chunk of change, which is passed along. But if all of a sudden the shit hits the fan in Shanghai at the Olympics, I can immediately see who is there, where they are staying, and message them the appropriate warning or advice.
ooooh John, that sounds like an awesome program. My office would probably love to know more about it...
ReplyDeleteLisa you are an associate office right? CWT Corp already is aware of it and I believe is using it. Runs about $25 per PNR and there are modules and options you can get of course. BUt it is a very useful tool. Many folks only use it for international, some use it for all, some only use it for SVP and higher, some only use it is specific hot spots, etc. Send me an email and I will give you the info john@jvegroup.net
ReplyDeleteProud, I want to respond to something you wrote:
ReplyDelete"John, yes we do tell people the averages when we tell them the company statement which clearly states that there is NO guarantee for success in YTB. What this means is that if you do nothing, you get nothing."
Do nothing = get nothing = failure, according to your statement.
If that were true, then the following would also be true:
Do something = get something = success.
Therefore, you are in essence guaranteeing success of some kind if the Rep/RTA/Whatever does something.
So you have no qualms about charging a $45 "service charge" or "booking fee" on a domestic flight? What would your position be if RTAs did that?
ReplyDeleteNo qualms whatsoever when I can beat Orbitz/Expeida/Travelocity by $250 per person on flights to Hawaii. My client did cartwheels when I saved her that much, and when it came to the $35 per person fee her response was "is that all?"
Scam, I never said I didn't recruit. I did recruit. That's how I beacme a Director. Now I don't do recruiting for myself anymore and am mainly focused on travel. I do however help my downline recruit. That's my job as being an upline director. I take care of those in my downline to help them become successful. I not only help them bring in new people under them, but I also make sure they are aware of all the training for travel that is available. i also urge them to get trained and start building up a clientele. A good number of people on the birthday bash cruise are people in my downline.
ReplyDeleteLike I said before, and I'll say it again... EACH person determines his or her own success, but assistance is readily available when necessary.
Today, I received a call from someone in my downline telling me that a few people were interested in joining YTB. I drove 472.8 miles round trip to talk with these people. They all joned, and I got the RTA/REP who called me into his POWER TEAM. I just got back home a half hour ago, ate dinner, and am already e-mailing the new recruits the vital info they need. Anytime anyone in my downline... no matter where they are... if they need my help, I'm as good as there!
Of course you drove the miles. A few recruits represent money to you. Did you make sure to tell them that they will likely not succeed or earn much in YTB or did you just let them know the VITAL info like CLIA cards and discoutns and birthday cruises?
ReplyDeleteDid you mention IATAN? RCCL? Restrictive discounts on Carnival? Did you tell them that they wil llikely make a few hundred a year selling travel and if they wanted to make more they need to recruit and then they can make an additional $90 a year.
Did you get their names and addresses so you can send then a christmas card thanking them for becoming the new base of the pyramid and allowing you to live in luxury?
Actually, when someone joins YTB, the upline does get their name, adddress and contact info. I not only send them an e-mail personally welcoming them.
ReplyDeleteI also train my downline, and am proud to say that my newest member just signed on 2 people today... which makes them new mwembers... of whom I also just sent out e-mails to. Today, i sent out a total of 19 new e-mails to new RTAs. I'm sure there will be more tomorrow. There always are. This is normally the 1st thing I do each morning... or the last thing I do late at night... depending on when I receive notice that someone joined my team. Just so you know, NO, I don't use the same welcome e-mail letter for each new RTA.
Like I said, I take care of those in my downline. If I make money from them, then that means that they are also making money for I get a match of what they make without taking anything away from them. this is what you fail to understand. It is by no way at the expense of those in my downline as you think. YTB pays me... NOT my downline! Once this starts to even come close to sinking into your heads, you will then begin to understand.
Do you even know what a phd is? just because a person has a phd doesn't mean that person is a MD, but every doctor has a phd. Here's the definition of a phd.
ReplyDeletephd
noun
a doctorate usually based on at least 3 years graduate study and a dissertation; the highest degree awarded graduate study [syn: Ph.D.]
Here's how it works:
A.A> or A.S.
Bachelors
Masters
PHD
I posted this in the wrong topic. I guess i have to cut and paste it. I must be tired. LOL!
ReplyDeleteSo do you train them with the education you earned with you PHD? Oh wait I mean, BD, oh wait I mean, AA, oh wait I mean AS, oh wait I mean BA....you get my point.
ReplyDeleteWe are trained by the VERY WELL QUALIFIED staff at YTB and CLIA!
ReplyDeleteI am in YTB and I have my CRTA. I am working on getting my CLIA too, but it will take some time.
You see, YTB HQ will do all this for us. You seem to think it is just about buying a business--it is much more than that. We invest in training and professionalism.
We have credentials just like you do, so we are no different, just starting a bit later than you. But where we are different is we have a top company backing us up every step of the way. You are on your own working through a host--does your host pay you the kind of money we make in YTB...didn't think so.
I know what the real problem is now. The traditional travel agents had to pay thousands of dollars to get where they are tooday where YTB has us pay a fraction of that.
ReplyDeleteThey have to rely on travel sales alone to survive. In YTB, we don't.
What's more amusing is that in the real world, all these traditionals are competition to each other, and yet on here they act like the best of friends. Someone should slap them with a reality stick!
Travelpro, proud, olescorekeeper, cruisin_man and anaonymous who posted before me, I am a newcomer to YTB and already believe in it whole heartedly. I too just completed my certification and have submitted CLIA tests for grading. I already got a cruise sale from someone I don't even know. I met them on line at Target.
I also already have two people in my downline.
YTB makes business sense to me.
Actually, when someone joins YTB, the upline does get their name, adddress and contact info.
ReplyDeleteWell, the way I see it, when a "director" makes sure they get all of the contact information, it's to ensure that if the original recruiter in the downline decides that YTB is not for them, the "upline" then does whatever they can to "salvage" who ever might be under the person leaving the holds of YTB to make them their own "recruit". That's what ticks me off about MLM's is that if someone under you leaves, the director or "recruiter" will "stalk" and do whatever they can to keep the newly hired ones in the fold. At that point, they'll even make excuses as to "why their recruiter left" "they didn't work hard enough" or they didn't believe. Alot of manipulation and brain washing goes into this business.
And you spaeak as if you were brainwashed Luanne.
ReplyDeleteThis anaonymous person is right though.
For the newbie YTB agent. The TTA's are not jealous of YTB. See the difference is we have YEARS of actual training, not webinars, we have been working for our titles for a long time and we've earned them. Taking a 1/2 hour online course is BS in my eyes. I earned my CTC, IATAN, CLIA. I didn't buy it.
ReplyDeleteAs for me personally being jealous of you making the little you will with YTB, nah. I'll take the $75K salary ++ comm that I get from my company (thats currently ranked #2 in the world, is respected and does BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN SALES on actual travel) over the YTB paycheck anyday. But thanks for worrying about us.
Our ac/heating guy tried to get us into this. If he was so successful at it, he wouldn't be installing AC now, would he? My husband and I saw it for what it was, a scam. In this MLM, the Tomer family is raking in the dough from all of the suckers who are paying them $49.95/month for their dumb websites. I recently went on my honeymoon, and I wouldn't have dared to book our flights and tours in Greece on a website as primitive as one run by someone affiliated with this YTB organization. If someone can book their travel thru Travelocity or Orbitz or some other company that they know and have heard of, what would possess a person with any shred of common sense to book travel on some podunk site? I would like to hear just how much dough the posters like "Proud to be YTB" have made since January. Especially in a shrinking economy, this business model makes no sense.
ReplyDelete