- Bermudians hoping to buy into an online travel business being promoted by former Opposition Leader Wayne Furbert are being warned not to expect big profits.
- Mr. Furbert - who plans to launch YTB in Bermuda next month - denied yesterday that the company is a pyramid scheme.
- The Bermuda Sun investigation also revealed that U.S. travel organizations are beginning to back away from YTB, calling it "a card mill" because its agents lack bona fide travel credentials.
- IATAN has taken a similar stance because YTB travel agents do not meet its required standards of working a minimum 20 hours a week or earning a minimum of $5,000 in commissions or salary annually.
- "I've read through the details on the YTB website. The earnings in this scheme aren't for those who sign up. The money is made by the people who sign up other people. It's about making money for a few people at the top of a multi-level organisation.
- Mr. Furbert said he did not want to get into the technicalities of YTB, but said: "This is a legitimate business. It trades on the stock exchange."
- YTB admits that the vast majority of its income is made from the sale of travel websites to agents at $50 per month than it does from actual sales of travel. In a filing with the SEC on late last year, YTB said: "Fees from hosting websites that we offer to home-based representatives make up over 70 per cent of our revenues. While our business model is based primarily on website hosting our various products and services, we do intend to pursue other sources of revenue to lower this percentage."
- YTB went on to state that if there was a "substantial decrease" in the number of websites that it hosts then "our financial condition, results of operation and future growth may be substantially impaired."
- YTB added that its business model could be harmed by possible law changes because it walks a fine line as a multi-level marketing business, and it could fall afoul of laws aimed at pyramid schemes.
- "We are subject to the risk that...our network marketing programme could be found not to be in compliance with applicable laws or regulations."
- Plans that pay commissions for recruiting new distributors inevitably collapse when no new distributors can be recruited. And when a plan collapses, most people - except perhaps those at the very top of the pyramid - lose their money.
So, finally, YTB is admitting that their business model is on recruiting and that it is unstable. I once tried to purchase a vacation property in Bermuda and the restrictions were onerous. I can't imagine trying to start a business.
I completely agree with most of your article, except the incorrect speculation at the end - while Bermuda does have strict rules and regulations surrounding property ownership (especially by foreigners... there's only 21 square miles!), our regulations surrounding establishing an enterprise are both robust and efficient.
ReplyDeleteOne can start a business in Bermuda in a matter of weeks, as opposed to many U.S. states and other countries where it can take months or even years. This is one of the reasons why we have such a strong international business presence.
Hmm...learn something new every day! Thanks for the update on the business culture. I suspect that if your laws are perceived as "lax" it might be why YTB decided to pursue an entry into BDA.
ReplyDeleteAn an aside note, after looking into purchasing in BDA, I went to GCM and it was ten times worse--needed to be personally referred, background checked, fingerprinted, and have enough money in escrow at all times in a Cayman bank to sustain my family for 6 months--regardless if it was rented out or if we were or were not on the island. Then it was off to Hawaii to look for an investment property! LOL
Thanks for the update and if you are from BDA, please keep us updated and end Swizzles. I wish Trimingham's was still open!
LOL - you always crying wolf and creating drama johnny . . .
ReplyDeleteNot one government official was interviewed for that article.
Basically a reporter / columnist ( what a low class of life form ) filling paper with ink.
A old hen travel agent spokeswomen crowing the same old story. I guess since the population is limited in Bermuda - the old hen TA's are rightfully worried.
I'm sure with Bermuda having the highest per capita earning over every other country in the world - there are plenty of bucks to be spent on travel.
In addition - 80% of all travel to Bermuda is via the USA - go figure . . .
Johnny - go crawl back under your rock and round up the old hen TA's and put them back into the pen . . .
LOL - too funny . . .
Tom
That's the way it's reported in the free press...if you want to read a pro-YTB view you'll have to wait for YTB to pay for some more "magazine" articles.
ReplyDeleteTom . . . You are right on. As I've said before, this blog is all about John's disgust for YTB, not MLM. It's time to change the name of this blog to "Anti-YTB, All of the Time".
ReplyDeleteThat report totally lacked credibility. Speaking to a traditional TA for her opinion about YTB . . . it's like a liberal Democrat giving their opinion about George Bush. This ranks right up with the Chicago Tribune article as another example of reporters with an agenda.
The whole idea of people getting "hurt" with YTB. LOL! You would think it cost $10,000 to join and you had to mortgage your house to pay the monthly overhead. As a teenager would say . . . "it's freaking $50 per month!" Think of what innocent couples spend after touring a timeshare, listening to the pitch and swearing they won't buy going in . . . only to giving in and committing themselves to thousands of dollar up front and hundreds dollars a month for years! That's something to talk about.
As a side note, the Founders Tour has happened each Jan-Feb for the past 3 years. John's spin that it is an act of desperation for Coach and Scott to tour the Country because the "recruiting numbers are down" is laughable. I got a kick out of your surprise at the number of people in attendance. That was certainly not the largest crowd that has been coming out to see Scott or Coach.
There was once a man named Jim Jones, who promised people safety in numbers. Only to end tragically.
ReplyDeleteThis sounds like YTB...the Tomers are the Jones of YTB. People will blindly follow them with promises of riches, even when most people are making pennies if that. This is very cultish behavior, and the Tomers are preying upon those who are weak minded. Time is ticking...tick tick tick.
Don't drink the kool-aid!!!
The Bermuda Sun investigation also revealed that U.S. travel organizations are beginning to back away from YTB, calling it "a card mill" because its agents lack bona fide travel credentials.
ReplyDeleteDang, I didn't even read the whole article and all I can say is "Thank God for Google" and I never honestly thought I would say that!!! :-)" For real!!
"This is a legitimate business. It trades on the stock exchange."
ReplyDeleteUh, yes, it is a publicly traded company. No, it is not traded on an exchange. It is not even traded on NASDAQ. It is not even traded on the regular over the counter market. It is traded via the pink sheets, where lots of other non-reporting companies trade. There is no oversight by the SEC or any stock market body for these stocks. Essentially, they are "trade at your own risk."
Please, please, please stop leaning on the publicly traded company bit and implying that it gives you some kind of protection.
Why are the traditional travel agents so anti-YTB? Here's the real reason why. The following figures were given out by a travel agent, so it's indisputable.
ReplyDelete10 years ago if you wanted to get a travel agency franchise it cost $31,000. The monthly support & hosting fee was $700 per month. If your customers had any problems or needed to make changes you were responsible for taking care of it for your customers.
As travel began to go to the internet, more & more people saw the benefit of getting a travel agency franchise. Because of the demand, the cost of the franchise came down to $9,700 & to $300 per month. You still had to handle your customers travel needs & problems. These companies were selling ton's of these franchises at this price.
My words below:
Now YTB offers it for less! instead of having to pay $300 per agent a month to keep an agency supported like the "traditionals", with YTB, it's $49.95. Also, thanks to the marketing side of the business, the $49.95 is reimburse every month after an RTA signs on 6 other RTAs!!!
Traditional agents don't get their monthly dues reimbursed!!!
So true... so very very true. Can they spin this one? LOL!
ReplyDeleteSo, every month you guys have to pay $300 to stay in business. Hmmmmm....
No wonder why you're pissed off...LOL!
The Vacation Stop . . . Stick to vacations and forget the financial services advice.
ReplyDeleteYou implied that YTB does not report to the SEC with your comment "where lots of OTHER non-reporting companies trade"
Not so, Stop . . . YTB reports to the SEC on all of their public financial matters. And all the financials (contrary to those trying to save the World from evil YTB)are up to date.
You weren't chosen...you BOUGHT IT!
ReplyDeleteRegina in another line of liars, who will say anything and lie lie lie to make a quick buck...
ReplyDeleteOn Reginas site she posts on the 25th this..."YTB COMPANY OF THE MONTH
YTB has been given "Special Reprints" of the "NETWORK MARKETING BUSINESS JOURNAL" as we were chosen as "THE COMPANY OF THE MONTH" in the February 2008 issue! Yea YTB!!!! Check your local bookstores for copies of the journal. If it is not there now, it will be soon. There is an awesome article about YTB....make sure you pick up a copy today!"
Umm I guess you didn't read that YTB paid for that advertisement did you? And from NMBJ site..."A look at our many departments
Company of the Month: This regular feature highlights a highly successful network marketing company each month. Products, management, compensation plan, philosophy and sales objectives are covered in depth. Companies choosing this publicity route often do so to: a) secure new distributors, b) instill pride in their current distributors, c) secure new customers, d) open an avenue to securing reprints which can aid distributors in telling the company’s story, e) create a professional, national image for the featured company, and f) help the company secure a national marketing position. (Note: Reprints are also available for the New Kid on the Block, Product of the Month and Manufacturer/Service/Support Company of the Month)."
What a bunch of scams you are! WoW YTB paid for themselves to be featured. Wow what a great company...another lying YTB maniac.
Why don't you guys just stop standing on the tracks waiting for the YTB train to run you over. Get on board.
ReplyDeleteYTB is not going away, the snowball your trying to stop is just going to grow bigger and bigger.
The Internet based travel engines killed your industry like walmart killed Mom and Pop businesses. It's called progress, and it does not matter what you think, it just keeps on moving.
Smart business people don't stand in front of the snowball of progress, they try to capitalize on the inevitable.
$300.00 a month?? What are you guys talking about? I don't pay anything per month or per year to my host agency.
ReplyDeleteSure the market has changed for TTAs over the years. It changed for YTB as well--remember when TTAs could sign up for free?
ReplyDeleteThis is not about the money it costs and any type of jealousy. It is about providing a service to clients and actually being what you profess to be. Call yourselves "website renters" and we are 90% of the way there. Don't you get it. You try this international expansion and the governments say you cannot call yourselves "Travel Agents". Hmmm. Yes, our own gov't screwed that up by allowing it. C'est la vie!
Tom--I never said that a government official said anything, but I would suspect that if the "former opposition party leader" is spearheading this move into BDA, there likely will be some resistance. Sort of like George Bush trying to sell a policy in 2009!
And once again,when presented with facts, YTB deflects and cannot make any coherent answer. LOoks like trouble in Bermuda---well you guys are jealous.....YTB is gonna be in a magazine we paid for...and when all else fails, just call someone a name.
AS to why this blog has taken an anti YTB stance. Simple answer is because it is so easy. You are publicly traded so the financials are somewhat available. Your company has ZERO control over what it's people say so there is always fodder and ignorance to point out. You are the loudest and largest of the MLM crowd, so why do you NOT expect an anti-YTB slant. The others, Traverus, GTI, etc. are quietly sitting back doing business "under the radar" but YTB is the bully on the block with the big mouth and now is crying that the blog is ANTI-YTB. As Gomer would say, surprise surprise surprise!
I went to Regina's blog and to Doug's blog and to countless others--had not seen too much that was PRO TTA in it. But am I commenting on there that it is anti TTA? Nope. I I post I try to have a point or a position. I do not come forth with mindless babble like "oh yeah, well we took out an ad in the paper so you should accept us".
Come on get real. The majority of people in YTB are involved in a losing proposition and are too embarrassed to say it and for some unknown reason are intent on defending the program to the death--all the while letting those at the top of the pyramid make the big bucks.
Did you see the post on 1-28? Did you see the percentage of people that actually make decent money---- point 003 percent..... .003%
The HIstory of Network Markeing
ReplyDelete(How Network Marketing got started and grew to meet the needs of the customer and the entrepreneur.)
It’s fascinating. A company that creates a product must make that product widely known. Sales organizations made up of individual salespeople were (and still are) the backbone of business.
The number of salespeople in the United States began to grow rapidly starting in the late 1800s.
1861: 1000
1869: 50,000
1885: 100,000
1903: 300,000
1860 - Traveling salesmen were known as canvassers, peddlers, hawkers and drummers. Some of these former peddlers created trained sales organizations. Had it not been for their influence, many of the corporate names we’re all familiar with today might never have been.
-Henry Heinz, a former peddler, created an organization of 400 salesmen to sell various vegetable products, like ketchup and pickles, to people who didn’t grow their own.
-Asa Candler, another former peddler, built a sales force to sell Coca-Cola syrup to restaurants after buying the formula from pharmacist John Pemberton for $2300 in 1886.
Out of these organizations came companies that allowed their salespeople to have their “own” business.
1868 - J.R. Watkins founded the J.R. Watkins Medical Company, one of America’s first natural-remedies companies where associates marketed directly to consumers.
1890 - David McConnel started the California Perfume Company, based out of New York. In 1906 he had 10,000 sales representatives selling 117 different products. The California Perfume Company changed its name to Avon Products in 1937.
1905 - Alfred C. Fuller was another former peddler who greatly influenced future sales organizations. Fuller started the Fuller Brush Company and hired 270 dealers throughout the U.S. to follow his business plan on commission only. By 1919, the Fuller Brush Company had made $1 million in sales; by 1960, $109 million.
1931 - Frank Stanley Beveridge was the former vice president of sales for Fuller Brush Company. He and Catherine L. O’Brien founded Stanley Home Products. Influenced by the economic hardships of the Great Depression, Frank and Catherine envisioned an opportunity for people to start their own businesses with minimal investment, selling products that people use everyday. This vision was obviously taken from the Fuller Brush Company. Stanley Home Products sold household cleaners, brushes, and mops. Some Stanley dealers began giving demonstrations for clubs and organizations rather than for individuals to increase sales volume. Other Stanley dealers quickly embraced this idea as a way to maximize the selling presentation. These dealers took the “clubs and organizations” concept into homes by having the home owner invite friends and family over….and the “party plan” was born.
Stanley Home Products became the training ground for many well-known company leaders. Mary Kay Ash, founder of Mary Kay Cosmetics; Brownie Wise of Tupperware; Jan and Frank Day, founders of Jafra Cosmetics; and Mary Crowley, founder of Home Interiors all received early training as Stanley Home Products dealers - again spurred by the Fuller Brush company.
1934 - Carl Rehnborg started the California Vitamin Corporation selling what today are known as vitamin supplements. In 1939 the company changed its name to Nutrilite Products Company, Inc.
1945 - Nutrilite contracted with Mytinger & Casselberry to become the exclusive American distributor of Nutrilite products. Mytinger & Casselberry created the first documented MLM compensation plan. It worked like this: A Nutrilite distributor bought his supplies at a 35% discount. (Ex: A distributor bought a box of vitamins for $13 and then sold them for $20 = $7.00 profit.)
To encourage the distributor to sell more, Nutrilite paid an extra monthly bonus of 25% on the total sales. 20 customers x $13.00 (wholesale value) = $260 x 25% =$65.00 profit.
Once the distributor proved that he could get 25 customers he was allowed to become a DIRECT distributor - which meant that he could find others who wanted to sell the Nutrilite products and then they would buy their products from him. In essence, once he proved that he could get customers he was “promoted” and allowed to find other distributors and to train them to get customers. As an incentive to train his distributors well, once he and his distributors amassed 150 customers, he received an additional 2% of the total sales volume.
This is not a pyramid - it’s a quota-based system of management. Those who sold the most boxes of vitamins got a higher reward than those who sold little. The MLM compensation plan was simply an extension of the Fuller Brush Company rewarding production. With MLM, the company could motivate a sales person to not only sell more products, but to train others to sell more products as well.
1945 - Earl Tupper created a line of flexible, lightweight plastic containers with tight-sealing lids. He started selling his products through conventional retail outlets, but realized the products needed demonstration. Earl Tupper then teamed up with Brownie Wise (formerly with Stanley Home Products) and launched Tupperware Party Plan, now a world-wide billion-dollar company operating in 40 countries.
1949 - Rich DeVos and Jay Van Andel (high school buddies and business partners) returned from military service and became distributors for Nutrilite vitamin supplements in 1950. After a brief dilemma with Nutrilite in 1959, the two abandoned ship and formed the Amway Corporation. In 1972 Amway Corporation acquired Nutrilite.
1956 - Dr. Forrest Shaklee developed a method of extracting minerals from vegetables and used MLM to distribute his products.
1963 - Mary Kay Ash creates Mary Kay Cosmetics. By 1996, company sales were in excess of 2 billion dollars.
1975 - The FTC (Federal Trade Commission) filed suit against Amway corporation for operating a pyramid scheme.
1979 - An administrative law judge ruled that Amway’s multi-level-marketing program was a legitimate business opportunity, as opposed to a pyramid scheme.
"I believe network marketing gives people the opportunity to build up the passive income they need for support while they learn to become professional investors. Even if they have little money, they can still invest 'sweat equity' for five years and begin to generate more than enough passive income to begin investing...Many famous franchises cost a million dollars or more to buy. Network marketing is a like buying a personal franchise, often for less than $300."
-- Robert Kiyosaki -
Rich Dad Poor Dad--
I don't pay a red cent to be a reputable travel agent. Haven't in 20 years. So whatever hosts your looking at your getting ripped off.
ReplyDeleteThe Bermuda Sun piece is yet another example of a "columnist" regurgitating comments and opinions from others who are not in the business, have never been in the business, and know nothing about the business. I have yet to read an article, whether by a "columnist" or a "journalist", who has actually interviewed someone who is currently in or who has dropped out of YTB, to share the attributes of their success or failure. While so many "columnists" and "journalists" spontaneously and credulously call YTB a scam, they have yet to produce even a single individual who complains of being scammed. To produce a balanced, objective piece would require real investigation and real work. It is so much easier to parrot negative comments harvested from the internet than to actually interview the company's founders, and Reps and RTAs that are active in the business. This leads one to believe that these writers are simply lazy, and consequently, their work is nothing more than a libelous rant. Of course, the clever ones dub themselves "columnists" so as to disavow themselves of any responsibility for accuracy.
ReplyDeleteYTB RTA said, "Now YTB offers it for less! instead of having to pay $300 per agent a month to keep an agency supported like the "traditionals", with YTB, it's $49.95. Also, thanks to the marketing side of the business, the $49.95 is reimburse every month after an RTA signs on 6 other RTAs!!!
ReplyDeleteTraditional agents don't get their monthly dues reimbursed!!!"
I paid no sign-up fee to my host agency, I pay no monthly fees, I get my own booking website powered by Revelex (just like YTB), and I get an 80/20 split on commissions.
Tell me again where the advantage is to YTB? I have to pay what to get a 60/40 split?
lbtravel said...
"Not so, Stop . . . YTB reports to the SEC on all of their public financial matters. And all the financials (contrary to those trying to save the World from evil YTB)are up to date."
It is true that YTB reports to the SEC, unlike some that trade on the pink sheets. However, the SEC provides virtually no oversight for companies that trade on the pinks. That's why they trade there. If they met the standards of NASDAQ general OTC, National Market OTC, or any of the exchanges, why wouldn't they trade there? The answer is that they used to trade there, but go de-listed for non-compliance reasons.
So, my point was that everyone supporting YTB hides behind the "since it is publically traded, it is subject to oversight" banner, when that is not true. Stocks that trade on the pink sheets have virtually no oversight whatsoever.
The Bermuda Sun piece is yet another example of a "columnist" regurgitating comments and opinions from others who are not in the business, have never been in the business, and know nothing about the business. I have yet to read an article, whether by a "columnist" or a "journalist", who has actually interviewed someone who is currently in or who has dropped out of YTB, to share the attributes of their success or failure. While so many "columnists" and "journalists" spontaneously and credulously call YTB a scam, they have yet to produce even a single individual who complains of being scammed. To produce a balanced, objective piece would require real investigation and real work. It is so much easier to parrot negative comments harvested from the internet than to actually interview the company's founders, and Reps and RTAs that are active in the business. This leads one to believe that these writers are simply lazy, and consequently, their work is nothing more than a libelous rant. Of course, the clever ones dub themselves "columnists" so as to disavow themselves of any responsibility for accuracy.
ReplyDeleteDid you see the Chigago Times piece with the former YTB RTA? There was also a Dallas television interview with a former YTB RTA. Really, I imagine most are hesitant to speak because it is embarrassing to go public that they were foolish enough to buy into it in the first place.
What "business" are you referring to? The business of recruiting people to rent websites? Or the business of selling travel?
Please don't go into the journalist/columnist thing. Mr or Ms. Travel Agent/Affiliate/Associate.
If everything with MLM and travel was on the up and up, why are there so many sources citing it as a scam? I cannot recall the last time I saw a mention that AAA, Amex, Carlson Wagonlit, Uniglobe, or even a mom and pop outfit was a scam as the business goes.
Wait, I know you are going to bring up unscrupulous agents again. Yes they exist and it sucks. But the fact that you are professing to be agents also sucks and is deceitful because you are NOT. And YTB seems to0 have some unscrupulous individuals in theri midst as well--the RTA in Baltimore, Phil PIccolo, and now this Doctor Seligman. I hear he was just awarded the Nobel Prize!
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete....This leads one to believe that these writers are simply lazy, and consequently, their work is nothing more than a libelous rant....
If everything being said by the journalist and columnist, and people here was libelous, don't you think that there would be some lawsuits going on? Hell, anonymous, you (like alot of your brethern) won't even try to come up with a fake name when throwing this tripe around, while us TTA's will at least come up with a screen name to use, if not our real names! You, sir (or ma'am), are dismissed.
John:
ReplyDeleteDid you see the Chigago Times piece with the former YTB RTA? There was also a Dallas television interview with a former YTB RTA.
Chicago Times? No such animal. Can you provide links to these 'reports'?
Really, I imagine most are hesitant to speak because it is embarrassing to go public that they were foolish enough to buy into it in the first place.
There you go imagining again. If you are able to find anyone who is an ex-YTBer, they would be embarrassed to tell you that they were not willing to devote even 10 hours a week to make their business succeed. What they were looking for was a get-rich-quick scheme with little or no effort -- which YTB is not.
What "business" are you referring to?
A third grader would comprehend that the business referred to is YTB. Isn't that what this blog is all about?
But the fact that you are professing to be agents also sucks and is deceitful because you are NOT.
We are RTAs, or Referring Travel Agents. Referring! This is english, people!
Ainsworth:
If everything being said by the journalist and columnist, and people here was libelous, don't you think that there would be some lawsuits going on?
To bring an action for libel, damages must be alleged. Despite the efforts of all the cry babies with blinders on who post here and elsewhere, and the scant few "journalists"/"columnists"/"reporters" who purport to be protecting the public, YTB would not be able to prove one iota of damages -- the number of RTAs has doubled in the last 12 months, and is expected to double again the next 12. No damages = no lawsuit.
It really bugs you that I'm anonymous, doesn't it?
Ainsworth:
ReplyDeleteIf everything being said by the journalist and columnist, and people here was libelous, don't you think that there would be some lawsuits going on?
To bring an action for libel, damages must be alleged. Despite the efforts of all the cry babies with blinders on who post here and elsewhere, and the scant few "journalists"/"columnists"/"reporters" who purport to be protecting the public, YTB would not be able to prove one iota of damages -- the number of RTAs has doubled in the last 12 months, and is expected to double again the next 12. No damages = no lawsuit.
It really bugs you that I'm anonymous, doesn't it?
Exactly, no damages so no lawsuits because there is no libel going on! Everything that is being stated is the truth! One of the things that we are saying is that RTA's are not real travel agents, and guess what? Even your "coach" hasn't refuted that, as evidenced in his January, 2007 interview with Travel Weekly when asked about it! And then, to top it off, the president of the company comes out several months later saying that he is working to "legitimize" YTB, alluding to the fact that even he knows that YTB isn't legitimate in what they purport to be.
As far as you being anonymous, doesn't really "bug" me. It just proves all the more to me that you're a coward. At least I, and others in the TTA world, when stating our beliefs, have the cojones to use names and even post our pictures!
Sorry Chicago Tribune
ReplyDeletehttp://www.chicagotribune.com/travel/chi-1209insiderdec09,0,2865134.story
I will find the expose on the RTA that got nothing out of it. I am thinking it was a Dallas afilliate of a network
So stop, yo paid NOTHING to be a travel agent??? I call BS!
ReplyDeleteYou have NO LICENSING FEE to pay to keep your business running each month? Again, i call BS
Every business costs something to start! Every business has a licensing fee!
Sorry, but YTB RTA is right. To confirm this, I did speak to a traditional travel agent today. i did not tell her i was with YTB, but I did ask her how to become a travel agent and what it costs.
She told me that it cost her $8,700.00 in total to become a travl agent. To keep her business licensed, it costs her $450.00 a month! WOW!!! She has been in the business for 23 years now.
I believe a face to face conversation with a travel veteran anyday!!!
Wow! that meand that I and the majority of my downline must be part of the .03% LOL!!!
ReplyDeleteAs far as your saying that YTB should kick out those who do nothing... THEY CAN'T! the ones who do nothing are also doing absolutely nothing wrong. there's no clause in the contract that states that if someone enters the business and does nothing, YTB will kick you out.
Well apparently they are not doing anything right now are they?
ReplyDeleteWhy does YTB want to be associated with a quarter million people that do nothing and just reflect on the impossibility of the program?
Oh yeah, thats right, so directors like you that are earning (wait let me check my sheet) $85,389.04 per year can tell all the suckers that listen to you "We just had a level 7 director make 3.4Million last year and right now there are 246,000 others right behind him. Don't you want to join up?"
Give it a rest
"http://www.chicagotribune.com/travel/chi-1209insiderdec09,0,2865134.story
ReplyDeleteOh yeah -- now I remember -- the retired used car salesman that was looking for something for nothing. And after three months of not getting something for nothing, he quit. Another crybaby.
John, I thought this was the type of person you didn't want in YTB anyway.
Proud to be YTB said...
ReplyDelete"So stop, yo paid NOTHING to be a travel agent??? I call BS!
You have NO LICENSING FEE to pay to keep your business running each month? Again, i call BS
Every business costs something to start! Every business has a licensing fee!
Sorry, but YTB RTA is right. To confirm this, I did speak to a traditional travel agent today. i did not tell her i was with YTB, but I did ask her how to become a travel agent and what it costs.
She told me that it cost her $8,700.00 in total to become a travl agent. To keep her business licensed, it costs her $450.00 a month! WOW!!! She has been in the business for 23 years now.
I believe a face to face conversation with a travel veteran anyday!!!"
Proud, call BS all you would like. There are no license fees at all in the state of Maryland for a travel agency. As I stated, there was no sign-up fee with my host, and no monthly fee. Just for the record, the company I use is not the only one with no fees. I am also licensed to sell travel insurance in the state of Maryland. AIG TravelGuard paid my license fee for me.
This does not mean I don't have expenses, as I do. Since I don't trust a single E&O policy for an entire Host Agency, I carry my own. That cost about $375 for a year at my last renewal. In addition to the free website, I have a website that I maintain on my own. That costs me about $300 for the year. I belong to the local Chamber of Commerce at $149 per year. I have postage costs. I have advertising costs. All of these are entirely optional. To compare to YTB and their booking website, I pay nothing.
I have no idea who you talked to that is spending that much money. In Maryland, a home-based agent can do it for nothing more than an 80/20 split on commissions if they want. Is that the right way to do it. Well, no, I don't think so. That's why I spend the money on E&O, advertising, education (I was awarded my ACC earlier this month), and other things.
All of this is documented on my tax return, which will include a Schedule C for all my income and expenses. Do you file such a schedule, or are you part of the underground economy?
So, you do have to pay fees... eventhough yours are annual. You stillhave to pay! i knew you had overhead somewhere. And you said you paid nothing to be a TA.
ReplyDeleteI called your BS!
I have NO OVERHEAD!!! The 49.95 I pay each month to show the government i have a business gets reimbursed to me the following month by YTB. This began when I got 6 people in my downline.
That's not the funny part. What's funny is that I can do everything you can do and I paid far less than you to do it.
tomrrow when I go to my mailbox, i will find some more checks with commas in them. :)
(pay gets mailed from YTB every Friday, and by Tuesday, i receive them... EVERY WEEK!!!
$85,389.04 per year
ReplyDelete?????????????
john, what sheet are you looking at?
I have a sheet right here, and all my pay stubs... and my earnings report in my back office. I assure you that it comes out to be far more than $85,000 a year for a level 1 director.
I will let VS argue the fact that you too probably have overhead like phone bills, prionting costs andf the fact taht he said his insurance was optional because the host provided insurance liklely does not cover the agent properly...
ReplyDeleteBut as to the average....I am looking at a sheet Scott gave me entitled YTB 2007 Income Disclosure Statement Draft Copy Only (1/16/2007)
Level 1 director---low=12,675.65 high =252,041.80 average =85,389.04 Might want to pull up your wonderful back office and see if it is in there! Or call Scott directly. Or give me an email address or fax number and I can send it to you
"That's not the funny part. What's funny is that I can do everything you can do and I paid far less than you to do it."
ReplyDeleteNow THAT'S funny. You have no clue as to what a traditional agent does, and believe me, you couldn't handle it. No, you can't do everything I can do.
Proud to be YTB said...
ReplyDelete"So, you do have to pay fees... eventhough yours are annual. You stillhave to pay! i knew you had overhead somewhere. And you said you paid nothing to be a TA."
Look, every fee I listed was totally optional. I pay them to make myself a better travel agent. I can have a travel booking website (http://thevacationstop.outsideagents.com) and be just like YTB (except that I can sell Royal Caribbean and Perillo) for no fees whatsoever. So, I think you stepped in BS, not called it.
Confused...First I am Not a YTBer
ReplyDeleteIn Ontario and British Columbia we have some of the toughest if not the toughest regulations in the industry.
In Ontario the Travel Industry act was passed and you have to be a member of tico to do business. There are serious fines and even jail time for breaching the act.
Yet the powers that be seem to think that YTB is a legitamate travel entity otherwise they wouldn't allow them to set up shop in Toronto or Vancouver. They seem to have no problem with them, yes I understand there was major negotiating and assurances made and the powers that be are satisfied.
Lets see, I work from home, have Sabre, Worldspan, and Amadeus on my computer. I have to IP phones which are linked to the main offices in NJ and PA. I make over $75K a year and lets see..I pay...ummm NOTHING in fees or expenses per year. I do corporate travel however. So lets use a vacation agent stats. Agent in Florida, has Worldspan to use, an IP phone connected to main office, gets paid 85% of what she books, gets all supplies and promotional she needs from main office, makes approx 65K a year, and pays lets se...NOTHING in fees per year.
ReplyDeleteMaybe if you own a B/M you have high overhead..but for those that work primarily from home (like you) and work for a host agency (a big name reputable one), dont pay a cent.
Maybe you make over $85K, honestly don't care. Because I'd rather sleep at night knowing the company I work for will be in business come tomorrow, and has a reputation that preceeds them (in a good way) in this industry then sell my talents short with an MLM.
BS??? Is this just what you guys tell yourselves to make yourselves feel better. There is no licensing requirements in my state. I did not pay a start up fee when I signed with my host agency. I do not pay a monthly fee. And I have a 90/10 split with my host.
ReplyDeleteI will say that I did spend almost $6000.00 for travel school. Which I now regret. I definately did not have to do that. (Should have just went to AAA from the start) I have my CTA and CTC and didn't have to pay for those either because AAA paid for those. Now After spending so many years at AAA I know enough to do very well on my own.
Other than that the only money I spent is on the normal office supplies that anyone running a business needs.
I don't have that kind of fee structure either. Sure we pay all the costs of having a store front but we do a lot of business. It's not a hobby.
ReplyDeleteProud to be YTB said...
ReplyDelete"Every business has a licensing fee!"
Hey Proud, What do you pay in license fees?
I also noticed you had no response to my question about whether you declare all this income for tax purposes.
Also no response to not being able to sell Royal Caribbean or Perillo.
Amazing how YTB folks just avoid the questions they don't want to answer.
Proud--are you registered with FL as a seller of travel? YTB's certification only covers bookings made through the site. It does not cover any bookings YOU handle.
ReplyDeleteI think I know that answer--you are not registered with the FL DACS. Because you have no permit fees. You are so secretive to your identity, and refuse to answer if you are part of the underground economy.
On the offchance that you might want to comply, here is a link
http://www.doacs.state.fl.us/onestop/cs/travel.html
Dear Proud,
ReplyDeleteI spent a lot of money to get in this business and it was money well spent! The difference between my business and yours is that it's MINE, not someone else's. I don't care what kind of math you use Proud, you're still only getting 60% and you don't really own anything. You are at the mercy of whatever YTB chooses to do or not do, and when they screw up and loose their IATA it becomes your problem as well. If you had your own business with a few independent contractors, you would make more than you are with YTB.
John said...
ReplyDeleteProud--are you registered with FL as a seller of travel? YTB's certification only covers bookings made through the site. It does not cover any bookings YOU handle.
Yes John, i am registered with FL as a seller of travel through YTB. I had to sign a form, get it notarized and send it to Tallahasse registered mail!
FLA Seller of Travel - Reg. No. ST33570
About the 2nd part... that is bogus! It covers ALL bokings i handle on or off site! that's where my commission claim forms come into play. I can go to any vendor website and book something there and submit a commission claim form! I can also call the vendors directly to book travel for my clients and submit a comission claim form to YTB. it's ALL covered!
Maybe you should attend a CRTA next John to find out about this.
Proud--you are wrong. Your YTB SOT only covers you when booked via YTB--therefore YTB is the "agent" in Florida's eyes. If you go outside of their web portal and are dealing with the client and the suppliers, you are required to have your own SOT number, post your own bond, etc.
ReplyDeleteI was unaware that the ultimate authority for FL compliance was the CRTA training. Thanks for clearing that up for me and I will make sure that the FL Dept of Agriculture is also aware of this---and to think they thought they were in charge all this time.
Why not give me your YTB site and I can have someone look into it for you?
John,
ReplyDeleteAs long as Proud is representing YTB when dealing with the suppliers, using YTB's CLIA, IATA (oops, can't use that one), ARC, or other number, then the exemption form filed is sufficient. Only if Proud is making bookings not affiliated with YTB would their be any issue.
Losing your shorts takes on a whole new meaning in Bermuda. Mad dogs and all.
ReplyDeleteI heard differently regarding the dealing directly with clients. The issue was a client protection deal where a RTA has access to client's credit card and cash and checks when dealing directly. If the client books on their site it is between YTB and the client.
ReplyDeleteMake sense to me, but I will defer to you.
Sorry Proud!
Why is it that I have seen many Travel Agents on here that are willing to say how much they make per year, yet I have not seen one RTA ever say how much they make? Whenever they talk numbers it is always what a friend or family member makes. Am I the only one that has noticed this?
ReplyDeleteGood Grief! It's illegal to state their earnings. They could go to jail if they did.
ReplyDeleteEddie--you must have bought into that spiel as well. It is NOT illegal to disclose earnings at all. It is illegal to PROJECT or GUARANTEE earnings as it relates to selling the product.
ReplyDeleteExample, when I went to my meeting, the Power Team Leader who was running the show said that he was working the business and was making about $30k per month. The Director there told the group that he made $1M last year. These statements are fine.
Now had they said, YOU CAN or YOU WILL earn $30K a month or $1M a year in our program--that is an issue.
Disclosing actual income is not illegal. As a matter of fact YTB did it at the Founder's Dog and Pony Show. Showed the low end, the high end and the average of all levels.
Wanna know why you are hearing it is illegal? Well with 305,033 representatives running the streets able to say anything they like without impunity from HQ, there is a risk, so YTB tells them it is illegal--put the fear of a federal crime in their heads. But more likely than not, they do not want someone out there saying the truth---that the average rep earned $297.25 in a year. That is just not good for sales.
But if you can show me a regulation (federal or state) that prevents you from disclosing your earnings, bring it on.
And YTB doesn't say, "you will make X amount of dollars guaranteed."
ReplyDeleteinstead YTB declares that each person is responsible for his or her own success.
You're trying to make an issue out of something that isn't an issue at all.
Really, what difference does it make what I or TravelPro make? what we make is what we make, and doesn't mean that someone else is definately going to make the same. I make what I make, because I continuously work both aspects of the business. If you don't like it... too bad. It doesn't pay your bills, so it's really of no concern to you. It's the sole concern of my family and myself.
As far as you also saying that there's little chance for those in the downline to make money. That's a giant BS statement. How many REPs are in YTB? just over 300,000. Nevermind a bucket John, that's like a drop in the ocean! also, How many RTAs are there? 142,000. So, not all REPs are RTAs, and I know that not all RTAs are also REPs.
With not even 2 stadiums full of people as RTAs and about 3 and a half as REPs, YTB hasn't even scratched the surface of recruiting yet. Keep in mind that recruiting isn't only in one state or 1 town... it's nationwide! It's also soon to be in Canada (8 more days)!!!
There's still a lot more football stadiums that could be filled, and everyone has the same opportunity! It's just a matter of how a person works the business that determines success or failure. The key is to stick with your upline and follow everything they say and do. use your upline when you need help. If your sponsor isn't willing to help you, go talk to his or her Power Team leader or Director. They will surely help you.
You can't blame YTB if someone fails. YTB supplies all the necessary tool to guide you.
It is up to each and every individual to decide whehter he or she is going to use those tools properly and let them guide him or her. tools aren't just words on a screen or a DVD. Your upline is also your tool. the reason why your upline is your upline is because thatose people listened and followed their upline. What did they do or say that drew you to YTB?
Nobody said it was going to be easy. Yeah, you'll get a few no's, but eventually, you'll get a "YES". Even I struggled in the begining. I thought I could get people on my own to sign up like it was nothing. It wasn't until I started to really follow my upline that I began to gain my new RTAs. I even had a few people who initially told me "no" contact me a little later withinterest to join. They did, and they are also doing just fine with building their teams and getting clients to book with them. How do i know they're booking travel? YTB gives me a 50% match on what they make (without taking away from them) that's how.
Also, did i also mention that I sent a fsigned and notarized form into Tallahasee by registered mail that registers me with the state fo Florida? I think I did, but somehow, you overlooked that. As usual, you only read what you want to.
Proud I hear what you are saying. But with 303K reps and 246K of them not earning anything, something is wrong. I will even give you that it is mostly their own fault.
ReplyDeleteBut when you have that high of a failure rate in the program, it is only a matter of time before it collapses.
If you did not have a downline, woudl you be making your "$30,000" per month? Of course not. So when the odds are stacked against success, it is a losting peopositions
John, i hear your points also. It's true that I wouldn't be making as much without a downline.
ReplyDeleteSince i have developed a geat clientele, i'd probably still stay in YTB and wouldn't have quit my old career. I'd be doing both, and i wouldn't mind paying $49.95 a month to keep ensuring that my clients are happy with the service i provide.
John, i hear your points also. It's true that I wouldn't be making as much without a downline.
ReplyDeleteSince i have developed a geat clientele, i'd probably still stay in YTB and wouldn't have quit my old career. I'd be doing both, and i wouldn't mind paying $49.95 a month to keep ensuring that my clients are happy with the service i provide.
What's that all about??? I submitted once, and it double posted??? LOL!
ReplyDeleteIf a REP gets into YTB, they are in it for free to begin with. So, if they do nothing, they really aren't losing anything.
I agree to John.
ReplyDelete