At the YTB Founder's Tour last week, we were given a spreadsheet on the "performance" of the reps over 2007. The following are some FACTS from that sheet.
- There are a total of 305,033 reps in the program (246,837 of them sold nothing in 2007)
- There are 58,218 active reps in the program (active is defined as having sold something in 2007)
- Of the active reps (not directors or team leaders), 77.17% earned an average of $90.32 last year
- Of the total active reps, .003% earned more than $21,000 (on average) for the year. Yes, there is a decimal point and two zeros before the 3.
- The average income of all reps (including directors et al) was $297.25 for the year
While there are more numbers to be extrapolated from this document, I find the whole presentation unconscionable. True, they disclosed the numbers and were very clear that they were NOT income projections. But Scott Tomer and his 30 or so directors preached this program to nearly 700 people knowing full well (from their own reports) that not one of the people in the room stood a chance of making any type of reasonable income from this program.
Let me reiterate... .003% of the crowd of 700 has a chance of earning more than $21,000. Do the math, that means that not one person in that room will succeed with YTB. Now of course the Tomers and the upline will do fine, but out of 700 people-- not one.
I am not sure why more people do not realize this. The numbers were handed to everyone on a silver platter. But I guess they were caught up in the message and the preaching from the pulpit. It amazes me that most of the people in the room were already IN the program and that 99% of them probably fall into the $90.32 annual income bracket. They were "promised" riches and are walking away with pennies yet they still drink the kool-aid. They are buying into the sermon, they are looking at the very few at the top of this pyramid and thinking they can have the same. Reality bites--it is just not going to happen!
Many tell me that if you don't put effort in you will not succeed. I completely agree with that. My question is why are so few people succeeding with YTB? Why is it that YTB attracts so many people that fail? Referring to the sheet, almost 81% of the reps earned nothing! What is the attraction? False promises? Smoke? Mirrors?
The math does not support the story. The history does not support the story. Sorry folks, it just is not going to work that way!
P.T. Barnum was right.
ReplyDeleteGet rich quick schemes presented to the lower income, less educated will always find plenty of fish to take the bait.
Remember, if something seems too good to be true, it probably is.
JF . . . If you are going to tell all of the details, then let's tell them ALL.
ReplyDeleteYTB started signing up Reps and RTAs in 2002. There has been a "free position" and it is called IMR or REP. You can sign up to be a Rep without any commitment whatsoever. Totally free. Over the 5 plus years, thousands have signed up for "free". YTB has never purged the files and those people are still on the books. 9 out of 10 never did anything to begin with because there is little value in something that is free. But, in order to conform with law, YTB has to offer this free position.
Yes, there are still 250,000 Reps still on the books. Most probably do not even know they are on the list. The only way they come off is to resign in writing. They receive no communication from YTB. But . . . because YTB is disclosing ALL of the numbers, we have to add them into the mix.
It is fact, but unfortunately it is low-hanging fruit for a web blogger like you that wants to use the numbers to promote your bias against YTB . . . without putting into perspective what the numbers really mean.
lb - the stats JF gave were based on ACTIVE REPS - his math only includes those who sold something in 2007.
ReplyDeleteWow! If you've got over a quarter of a million people on your team that are producing zero sales, don't you think that's an issue?
ReplyDeleteProud is going to state that "if you do nothing, you get nothing." which is correct. My question is, what they heck is YTB doing with over a quarter of a million people who are producing no sales?
lb - the stats JF gave were based on ACTIVE REPS - his math only includes those who sold something in 2007.
ReplyDeleteUhm, yeah, LB please read it. I fully disclosed that there were a documented 246,837 "failures" in YTB. Why is it that so many are failures?
They do not need to be kept on the books by any requirement at all--that is pure misinformation. You send them an email saying you have not done squat, so we are dropping you unless you tell us otherwise. Settles it all. But you know what, to be able to recruit and say we have a sales force of 305K is a pretty powerful marketing ploy!
The question is why do you deem the program so "rewarding" and "successful" when only .003% of your ACTIVE sales team will earn more than $21,000 in a year?
John,
ReplyDeleteYour concern about the amount of failures is very humane. Unfortunately, the numbers play out the same in most all professions. Start doing your research on Real Estate Agents, Mortgage Brokers, Financial Planners and Traditional Travel Agents. The numbers are 9 out of 10fail at these professions and eventually go and get a job. Of course, that is what you want is for them to come and work for you. Failure rates are universal. It is a human thing, not a network marketing thing. You have some time on your hands, why don't you attack every profession for their failure rates. People that work do not fail. There are few that do work! Should we blame MLM?
Sunfun--
ReplyDeleteWhat are you smoking? If 81% of my work force was producing nothing, I have a problem. I get rid of them. Why does YTB still carry them on the records--because it is a recruiting tool.
Please document your statement about all business has failure rates such as YTB. Over the past decade, I have hired probably 30 people for my business. Three have left. One retired, one was fired, and the other left because she thought it would be best considering the economic impact of 911. So if you don't count the two that left voluntarily, I have a .03% attrition rate. The attrition rate on YTB is 0% according to your books because you never let them go, but realistically it is 81%.
" Failure rates are universal. It is a human thing, not a network marketing thing."
ReplyDeleteTrue. But I would venture to say that the failure rate in MLMs is tremendously higher....
And the blind sheep keep following the Shepherd.
ReplyDeleteWhen will people learn? Promises of riches...all I can do is shake my head.
What a surprise most of them aren't making anything. The funny thing is John helped by giving the average numbers. I'd like to see how any of those active ones are making less than $50. Obviously there are a few making more, and they are keeping the rest afloat. I think I hear the sound of a sinking ship.
ReplyDeleteJohn,
ReplyDeleteJohn, you use the word hired. People that take a job stay much longer. i am not speaking of people that are hired. I am talking about people who are self-employed or start there own business. When a RTA pays $500 to join YTB they are agreeing to start a travel business. The stats for people who start there own business is 9 out of 10 fail. (Robert Kiyosaki of Rich Dad Poor Dad uses this stat over and over in his books) When you hire me and give me a job then we are speaking of two different things. Building a business is not a cake walk. You built a successful business, you should know. I have built a few myself, I know. YTB is no different than any other business. The numbers are in every major business magazine and book. The numbers are 9 out 0f 10 business fail. Keep in mind that is a stat where most people are working there business full-time to get it of the ground. Therefore, YTB's numbers are for the majority part-time attempts to get there business of the ground. This is universal in business and humans. People spend money to start businesses every day. Some Win and Some Lose. Should we stop building a business because their are failure rates.
I think not and I do not smoke. It is bad for your health even for a MLM Business Owner.
sunfun - NEVER believe a stat that only comes from one source! Always double-check! Google makes it easy.
ReplyDelete9 out of 10 failure rate is an urban myth:
http://www.mynewcompany.com/blog/the-myth-of-business-failure-rates/
http://www.theprobabilist.com/overthrowing-the-dreaded-business-failure-rate/
http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/500800/
http://sbinformation.about.com/b/2006/12/15/small-business-failure-truthiness.htm
YTB's numbers are NOT NORMAL for failure rate.
You know what I find funny, and is a bit off topic. Is that YTB RTA's are claiming to want 100% of online bookers, however, if you go onto CL, MAJORITY of which are online bookers and do not want to use a TTA, WOULDNT book with YTB either. Even they claim its a scam and to avoid.
ReplyDeleteYTB needs to clean up their reputation before going after the rest of the world for more REPS. Might want to fix what you have first.
They have no choice but to go somewhere else, they are running out of suckers. You can only go so far before people start dropping out and you can't pick them up. If YTB was such a good idea, everyone would be onboard. Fortunately there alot more people with a brain out there. So they move on looking for more suckers to keep them afloat. Their reputation means little to the CEOs as long at the people keep drinking the kook-aid and filling their pockets. And when the Tomers and Crotch are gone, they will be smiling all the way to the bank, while the rest of the people wonder what went wrong.
ReplyDeleteSo, is anyone from YTB going to comment about OLE Phil and the DR? Or are they forever shrouded in secrecy???
ReplyDeleteI'm guessing the DR is as much of a doctor as a the coach is a coach.
YTB's numbers are NOT NORMAL for failure rate."
ReplyDeleteAfter reviewing the sources you provided (thank you), why can't the same criteria be used to correct the YTB numbers? The exact same reasons can be used to bring YTB's Rep 'failure rate' to 25% also. It's not that MLM doesn't work it's that most who sign on don't "make a go of it".
First off, this is not directed to everyone here, just the ones who make little remarks directed at the MLM industry.
ReplyDeleteMLM is a very strong industry throughout the world. If you want to dispute that fine, but have facts!
First dispute Dr. Charles W. King.
http://www.networkleads.com/real/calls/thur073103.ram
That audio is credible information from a highly respected man. It's very easy to get info about him, so stop making negative remarks about an industry that you only have limited facts on.
As to YTB being a scam. I'm doing my homework on this company, and not relying on the words of people who have an OBVIOUS axe to grind.
For now I know that YTB has been in business for over 6 years. If this company was not a lugit company, they would have already been dealt with.
As to the fact that most of the revenue is coming from sales of the travel business, I'm doing more research because the structure is unique with the two separate opportunities.
Since you don't pay a dime for the rep opp, it looks to me like it is above board. That is not a conclusion, it's just an observation.
If someone is very serious about joining a business ANY business, they should keep in mind when doing research the agenda of the people attacking the company that they are researching.
As to the failure rate, anyone who has a decent understanding of the MLM industry would know that people join these opportunities with unrealistic expectations.
Sometimes this is because of unscrupulous people, sometimes they just take a surface look at the pay plan and they think it's easy money.
If you want to earn a good amount of money from any venture it takes WORK!
And if it's free, they are even less likely to put forth an honest effort.
People need to realize this.
YTB just might be the absolute best MLM opportunity that I've ever seen, I just have not made my mind up yet.
Do Your Own Homework!!!
A lugit? As usual the uneducated talking about YTB...not a surprise. You are exactly the type of person they prey on.
ReplyDeleteI joined YTB at the end of Sept 2007. I had to quit my job due to my daughter having medical issues. I used every penny we had in our house fund. I worked my butt off trying to promote my business, went to Red Carpet every Tues, spent endless hours listening to the conference calls, spent countless hours getting educated and getting specialist diplomas, spent my 149.00 for my "certification", (which is nothing more than a boring live version of the toolbox you get, had my "Grand Opening Party" (which is nothing more than a sales pitch to gather new recruits), I even had a Grand opening cake. Our best friends were there, and they were completely shocked (as was I) that it really wasn't a "grand opening party", (and by the way, we haven't seen them since).
ReplyDeleteI joined out of desperation because I had to give up my job and thought this would work for me since I had to be home. Our Bro-in-law is a Level 4 director. He is a millionaire, and I thought well, this has to be real, because he certainly has done well for himself.
3 other family members are in this as well, but 1 is one of our daughters (has not made anything on either side of the business), and the other 2 sure aren't making much (if any), 1 does try to work the business, the other I don't think does anything at all with it.
I just left this month. I have put $5000.00 into this "business" and you know what I have made back?
$59.25
Yep, $9.25 for a hotel booking that was made way back in Oct, and I just recently got paid for that, and $50.. from our daughter joining.
I wrote an "e-ticket" my back office and these are my exact words
"What do I need to do to cancel my membership? I want to get out of YTB."
This is the response:
"Re:
Cancellation
Thank you for contacting YTB support. Your cancellation request has
been received and will be processed shortly. Please note that your
cancellation request should be received at least 5 business days prior
to your payment date to ensure you are not charged for the following
month. Please let us know if you have any other questions.
Thank you"
and to verify they would not take out the payment on the scheduled day, I responded:
"My cancellation request is 5 business days prior to cancellation, so you should not charge my account on Jan 24th.
Thank You."
So this week I get a letter stating that my RTA status has been canceled, but if I want my REP status canceled, I need to write a letter to the company.
Really made me mad. What part of
"I want to get out of YTB" don't they understand?
The whole thing was a miserable experience a a big loss of money for me. I used every penny we had to promote my business, and now I have nothing.
I knew something was terribly wrong when we attended the Red Carpets weekly (we live 130 miles one way away) and they said the very same thing every week. Pretty much word for word. Every so often they would throw in something new, but they were exactly the same. They all follow speeches.
Something else I have noticed as well, if you start pointing out things that are not right, you get quickly called on it. I can not tell you how many times I had put in calls with questions I needed/wanted answered, and never got one call back, UNTIL I started pointing out I wanted out. Then I was told I am reading to much negative stuff on the internet-blah blah blah- I was like no, I am intelligent enough to see it for what it really is.
When we lost IATAN, I started digging and I haven't stopped. Then I found this blog and nearly had a heart attack reading Johns posts.
I never read much of the chatter, because it gets a bit to ugly for me, but I just want to say thank you to John for fighting the good fight. I know there are many others out there that really want to make the business work, as I did, and will be left spending money and never seeing much in return.
Upon leaving YTB, this has also caused a bit of a rift now, since I am the bad guy. I never make such a split second decision, and I should have researched BEFORE I jumped in, but I didn't, I went by what I saw with our brother in law. It really is sickening the amount he makes monthly. I have seen what he makes, and it is a fact, that those up at the top do very well.
The problem is, it is only those at the top that make that kind of money. It is through the marketing not the travel. And that comes from having uncomprehendable contacts, and then those contacts have contacts, and so on.
I would still like to pursue the travel business. In educating myself, I have found that it is very interesting, and I have really learned much in a short period of time about so many different places. It is really a very interesting industry.
I don't know where to go at this point. For right now I will just absorb as much education as I can (although some of the tests you need IATAN to take), until I can pursue it further.
If you have any questions, i will answer them to the best of my ability, but I won't get into bickering match.
Blessings to you.
Hey Had enough,
ReplyDeleteyou joined in September and spent $5000 in YTB??? I call your bluff pal! I have been in for much longer, and guess what? I didn't even spent $5000 to work YTB... especially not in a 4 month period! Maybe you added an extra zero there. Your comment has BS written all over it. Makes for a nic story though.
ROTFLMAO! Can you actually believe this BS? I have been in ytb for seven amnd a half months now, and I haven't even spent $1000.00 in ytb and I am doing quite well with it. First of all, to get into ytb because you lost your job is just palin stupid. ytb is a plan b that you can turn into a plan a over time.
ReplyDeleteWho is Dr. Charles King? I am disputing Seligman and he is a fraud!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous--sorry to hear of your experience.
I can honestly see spending $5000 in 6 months you spend $800 in fees and the joining fee. Attend a Red Carpet Day there is cost to fly out unless you are in Illinois. Training for CRTA, and printing and marketing your business. I can see where it typically is $5000. I know that at one point it was a rule of thumb to spend between 5% and 10% of your net revenues (commissions) on marketing.
Another note on anonymous and to Proud--
ReplyDeleteOf course you do not believe him or her (I am not saying it is true, but it very well could be)because he or she went against what you were told to believe.
See, when someone puts forth facts, YTB attacks, ignores, or changes the subject. Just look at the posts for Bermuda, the Rep Income, the Doctor Seligman, and many more. When you are proven wrong, you divert.
The RTA in Baltimore---oh one example
The disgruntled RTA in Texas--of well one out of 135,000 is noit bad
The RTA in the Chicago Trip--hac columnist and someone that did not want to work
Dr. Seligman--shhhhh he may have found us out
Bermuda--hack columnist and only one newspaper
Beginning to see a trend here guys?
I am somewhat new to YTB as well. Although I have not spent $5000 in 6 months, I have spent money on top of the fees to YTB. That is just marketing and you have to do it.
ReplyDeleteI have sold 3 packages to the olympics to my church members and I bet there are more. I figure at 25% I might as well concentrate on that to start.
I did an online stroe (free) at Cafe Press to host my merchandise and cusztomers,other RTAs, and anyone can buy the merchandise.
I am using it to promote the packages with Shanghai. I give my customers a journal to detail their trip and if it is a longer trip a shirt. I have the notecards that I use for all my correspondance and everyone always asks what the deal is. I have a sign in my front yard (I added my URL to it though) so I do have costs. But not $5000
If anyone is interested
www.cafepress.com/ytb
Has my olympic stuff. It has been working well for me.
Well it's intersting that YTBers are just as nasty to one of their own when they make a negative comment as they are to the rest of us.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said " YTB is supposed to be a plan B". But this person lost their job, and according to your many websites and videos you can make a bizzilion dollars with YTB and drive a cocain white Bently with no work, training, education, or anything! Hell you can be in a coma and make money with YTB!
I applaud them for at least trying. Most people are afraid to spend money in the beginning of their business because and end up failing. It sounds like this person gave 110% and still had it not work out. It's sad, but most people fail at a couple of businesses before they get it right.
I can see how someone could spend $5000 in six months, as I have spent that much in the last 2 months on marketing. But we've learned where to spend it to get the best ROI.
For a multi level marketing company to offer no marketing training to someone is absolutely inexcusable. Heck they couldn't even get their own RTA's excited about their own contests! Since all YTBers are using the same marketing message it's no surprise that so many have failed. With over a quarter of a millions reps with zero sales last year, please don't try to make the argument that you have a low failure rate.
I find it appalling that the YTB people who claim to be "good christians" are down right nasty to even their own kind. The person above tried the company and it didn't work for them. So your rude and call them a liar? This person tried and failed, as we've been saying all along..it doesnt work except for people at the top. Instead she/he must be lying, or BS. Right...and what about the other 50K+ people who are not making any money..are they BSing too?
ReplyDeleteI feel sorry for the person above, and thats what I personally am trying to prevent. Innocent people getting sucked into something with false promises of riches and perks that just don't pan out. I started this because of the fact that I love this industry, been in it for over 20 years and do not want it tarnished with people who simply do not care about travel, just want the perks..now it seems I feel even more sorry for the people that get sucked into the fairy tale. You all claim to care about YTB and your own...yeah it shows with the posts above.
had enough said: It really is sickening the amount he makes monthly. I have seen what he makes, and it is a fact, that those up at the top do very well.
ReplyDelete1st of all had enough, I'm sorry you were shown all of the "good stuff". My question to you is "Did your BIL show you just his "best check" or have you seen several checks?" The reason I ask is because many times, they'll show you their best check, but that doesn't mean they make that much each month!! Also, who's to say that he's not swimming in huge debt, trying to make people believe he's a millionaire. I personally wouldn't be so quick to believe it just because I "see it". The MLM'ers like to make it seem like they're so rich, when in fact, that's all simply part of the "big lie" to get you to sign on.
travel temptress and travel Lisa....that is the normal mode of operation in all MLM's....
ReplyDeleteIf you are "into the MLM" and paying your monthly fees or buying the product or spreading the good word and recruiting anyone and everyone within 3 feet of you, and always positive and never speak a negative word about "THE FLOPPORTUNITY" YOU ARE LOVED and all of the other MLM'ers very best friend in the world and part of their family, bla bla bla but, if you even breathe a word of negativity or "leave" the cult, you are shunned and those who you thought were your "best friends" and newly found family members are no longer. They no longer have ANY time for you or anything about you. It's all a part of how these MLM's work. If you're in, you're in, if you're out, they want NOTHING to do with you, except for your list of recruits, they'll take that "thank you very much"!! so they can try to keep their grips on them and their wallet!! I'm not surprised at all by the YTB'er's response to "had enough". Not at all!! Very typical!! They claim they can no longer be around negative people and they deem "quitters" as being negative. I deem them as "seeing the light" or basic reality check :-)
had enough said, "If you have any questions, i will answer them to the best of my ability, but I won't get into bickering match."
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying what you posted here is "BS". Of course, none of us will ever know if your statements are truthfull.
And yes, I do have an easy question for you. I doubt if I will ever get an answer..but here goes.
What is the name of your millionare, level 4, brother-in-law? Maybe there is another side to this dark story. Do ya think?
Yeah, I called his BS!
ReplyDeleteFirst fo all, if I lost my job, I wouldn't go spending $5000.00 right off the start! In fact, when i started off, I kept it simple with business cards... which don't cost that much to make... or have made.
Sensibly, if this was my only job due to losing another, I wouldn't invest much more money into it than I would basically need to until I started to make some money out of it. Why? Well, this increases the gap for a ROI.
Smart people know how to invest just waht they need to to get a business off the ground without over investing.
Starting out, my initial investment was just under $800... which I made back in no time at all through both recruiting and booking some client cruises. As I made more money, I began to invest some more... but over a 4 month period, it was still under $1000, because I know how to invest the right way. There are so many different ways to invest in a business that are totally obsolete. many types of advertising just don't work. You have to stick with the ones that do. Still, the best form of advertising is "WORD OF MOUTH" which doesn't cost a dime. It's amazing how many clients I have picked up through having another client tell them about my business.
Yes, i did get some clients into the business, but the majority of them, I did not. The ones who i did get started with YTB did so, because they came to me and asked how they could do it. I don't go telling people right from the start that they can have their own website. I intend to keep as many people as clients as I can. for the most part, my personal recruiting days are over. Yes, i help my downline recruit people for themselves, but the travel side has become my main focus and my passion. I am a hands on person when it comes to travel. I do whatever I can do for those who come to me for business. I have even taken out my own credit card and added a few extras to my clients vacations as a thank you for doing business with me. Below is part of just one e-mail i received form a very satisfied client (with identities removed of course)...
Dear XXXXXXXX,
We want to thank you for all you have done for us in making our anniversary cruise a very wonderful experience. When we opened the door to our suite, we did not expect to see all those bouquets and bottle of wine sitting there waiting for us. What was even more shocking was to find out that it was all your doing when we read the card. Thank you! When you said that you set up something special for us, we had no idea it was going to be something like this! Even the crew got involved in celebrating our first wedding anniversary by singing to us and serving a beautiful cake!
Who would have thought the Bahamas was really this beautiful? just the water alone is so crystal clear and blue! We went parasailing, snorkeling, swimming and jetskiing. Ok, Dave went parasailing. I wouldn't get up in one of those things. I have atttached a few pictures form the cruise for you to see. We are definately hooked on cruising! Aside from the minor sun burn it was an all around wonderful experience!
Thank you again, and we will definately recommend you to all our friends!
Sincerely,
Shawna and Dave XXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX@aol.com
P.S. we brought back a little something for you, so watch your mailbox.
It's letters like this that make it all worthwhile knowing that I personally have the ability to make a person's vacation an awesome experience that will be talked about for years to come!
I take a lot of pride in my work, and that's why I'm "Proud to be YTB"!
And one more thing for "Had Enough",
ReplyDeleteThe REP side it a totallly free side of the business! Only the travel side costs you money. Now if you opted into the travel side and haven't even done a single thing with it, it's your own fault! You can't sit there and tell me that you couldn't find a single client in 4 months! I got my first client the first week! Yeah, it was airfare hotel and a rental car for 3 days, but it was a client!
You are truly a piece of work. So now the person above who spent $5K trying to get this business off the ground in desperation for income is "stupid". I hope to god your more tactful when speaking to your clients.
ReplyDeleteThe person above was in dire straits after having to leave a real job to be at home to care for a child. So she tried the "work from home" and probably got the rogue REP who promised her riches. Oh right..they don't exist. Neither do the agents who promise you "can travel like a travel agent" wearing the lime green shirts.
As for clients letter to you for doing such a great job. Whooopee. I have a file cabinet full of them, countless credit card charges to make it memorable, because thats the extras that make them come back. Not to mention the gifts from clients...money, gift certificates, concert tickets/backstage passes, play tickets for my birthday, and just plan old thank yous. The difference is, if I change agencies..I can take them with me...can you say the same? Isn't there a stipulation saying YTB gets to keep your clientele?.
Glad your "proud to be YTB". But you should be disgusted with your self as a person for calling someone a liar simply because they failed, and failed at a company that seems to have many who do not make more then $100 month at that.!
TravelLisa, you sound awfully bitter. May I suggest two great videos that will change your life.
ReplyDelete#1 - The Secret
#2 - Pay It Forward
Why is it that I am bitter? Because I feel its horrible to call someone stupid or a liar for that fact because they tried YTB and failed? Thats how you treat your own kind? Does it make me angry...yeah I guess it does.
ReplyDeleteYou know nothing about me so don't assume I'm anything. The people that know me know I would give the shirt off my back or my last dollar to someone in need.
I have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. those who fail YTB do so because they fail to realize the powerful businees they have. they fail to believe in themselvses! They fail to treat i like a business! They fail to go to their up-line for help. That's what the up-line is there for! We don't let our downline enter the company and flounder on their own. if they want to succeed, they will come to us, and we WILL help them! Every single person who has come to me for help has become successful with YTB! They are selling travel... as I told them they should! they are building their teams... as i instructed them to! They are making use of all the training provided by both YTB and the vendors!
ReplyDeleteThose who treat it like a hobby and don't try to build on it, and don't ask for help when it is always readily available... and then quit deserve NO SYMPATHY! When someone is in YTB, they are treated like family! If they quit, they quit the family. their choice.
YTB is a business, and although there is no long term committment you have to agree to between yourself and YTB, there is the personal committment you make to yourself uopn joining YTB. You must committ yourself to take what you have with YTB extremely seriously! know what you have is a business!!! treat it like a business!!! Be professional! be a leader! Show the world what you can do!
The more I come here, the more I grow passionately about YTB and my team! Your anti-YTB remarks just add fuel to my fire!
If somebody is really in dire straights, they won't even have $5000 to spend. Red Carpet Day is every Tuesday, so she's saying she went to every one... every Tuesday?? that's either a lot of airfare to book or a lot of fuel to put into the car... especially for someone in "Dire Straights"... LOL! This person most likely was never in YTB and is just another person trying to stir up some trouble in John's anti-YTB campaign.
Yeah, I definately call BS!!!!
Also, because i have dealt with these clients in person and not through my website, I am quite sure that I can take them with me if I ever did switch agencies. No, I won't change agencies bTW.
There is absolutely no stipulation anywhere that states that YTB can keep my clientele. My clients are people... not property! To even insinuate such a remark is ignorance.
You obviously have a lot to learn about YTB, and following John's bandwagon of one sideed misinformation is not the way to do it.
same ole same ole...if youse aint wit us youse against us!
ReplyDeleteWell I knew it was pointless to even post a comment.
ReplyDeleteWill gives answers to the questions, I was asked:
No I did not see a check, but I did see the amount of his monthly payouts in his back office. Only one vehicle is not paid for and his house. Everything else he owns, and was able to do this in 5 years. And he and his wife travel constantly.
No I did not spend all of that money at once, it was over the short period I was in TYB.
This alone is just from my back office:
Order # Date Total Order Status
2879586 12/24/2007 $49.95
Completed
2712175 11/24/2007 $49.95
Completed
2540525 10/24/2007 $49.95
Completed
2473681 10/11/2007 $226.00
Completed
2473671 10/11/2007 $36.30
Completed
2370080 9/24/2007 $49.95
Completed
2298063 9/10/2007 $149.00
Completed
2293381 9/9/2007 $10.00
Completed
2239480 8/29/2007 $52.16
Completed
2210866 8/24/2007 $598.90
Completed
That alone is 1871.56
Now add 900.00 for my laptop(I had to have a computer to do this business) Also had to buy word 2007 which was 139.00 because apparently it doesn't come with the computers anymore, unless you pay more for it, my biz cards, all of my marketing costs, gas going back and forth every week to Red Carpet, gas running around trying to market my business, my other marketing site (through vacation media) that was around 109.00 for a year, and then buying my dot.coms. Supplies for my "grand opening party" It does add up pretty quickly over time. I have receipts for everything I spent.
Yes, being a REP is free, but trying to market your travel business is not free. I didn't just want to point people to my site, I wanted to work my business. I did not want to just be RTA I wanted to actually be a travel agent working from home. I did not just sit there and expect to earn money, I was working it.
I did work my butt off trying to make it work.
It really isn't important my Bro in laws name. I don't see how that really matters.
I did not come on here to fabricate things. I am only stating facts.
I stand amazed at the nastiness to my post. I simply told you what transpired, and am told it is BS.....Call it BS, call it whatever you want, but it simply did not work for me. Period.
And lisa, you don't know me either. As for your comment about giving the shirt off your back to help people, i have and still do the same thing!
ReplyDeleteLet me remind you about what i did for a friend who was on the verge of forclosure. I stepped in and helped them keep their house! I even gave them extra to put into their bank account! I even deorated their house for Christmas like you wouldn't believe!
If you see a homeles person on the streets, do you just keep driving by pretending not to see? I give them some money and food because that's the type of person I am! I do donate to charities on a regular basis... not for tax cuts, but because I care.
Did you ask your upline for help?
ReplyDeleteHow were you targeting people?
What type of people were you targeting?
were you just trying to sell the business, or were you trying to get clients as well?
John, I have no idea who Dr. Charles King Is and I have no idea who this Seligman is. I didn't even know Phil Piccilo was in YTB until I read it here. I haven't listened to any conefrence calls for the whole month of January, and haven't attended Red Carpet Day since Dec 11 (which was the last one of the year 2007)
ReplyDeleteI didn't even know Ted had quit YTB and filed suit until I read it here.
There are just to many discrepancies and things one doesn't know until one starts digging.....
Proud to be YTB said...
----Did you ask your upline for help?----
Yes I did, got a lot of fast talk, on the marketing side, zero talkon the travel side. Never got but 2 returned phone calls, and had to go to his house to get my questions answered, which really didn't get answered at all.
----How were you targeting people?----
In person, flyers (really nice colored flyers with my info and such on them, also had travel specials on them), my 2 different sites (YTB and also vacation media), on the phone, leaving my biz cards at various places I do business with, mailings.
----What type of people were you targeting?----
Everyone
----were you just trying to sell the business, or were you trying to get clients as well?----
Both
Had enough said, "It really isn't important my Bro in laws name. I don't see how that really matters."
ReplyDeleteOh but it does matter. Like I said, there are two sides to every story. For now, it's your side only. Since your B-in-L is successful and you were not, he probably could shed some light, from his viewpoint, as to what went wrong. So how about it? What's his name, or at least his initials?
It's not just going out and working a business. It's how you go about going out and working your business. It all starts with you! Take a look at yourself and ask' "Am I a confident person?" Figure out what your strengths are. What are your weaknesses? how can you overcome your weaknesses and let our strengths be your guide.
ReplyDeleteHow do you portray yourself to others? Your confidence and belief in both yourself and your product is the deciding factor on whether you get a client, team member... or nothing. People analyze people. Even the slightest hint of uncertainty can break a deal in any business!
olescorekeeper, it isn't a story, so there isn't any "sides" to it. There isn't any he said, she said nonsense, no gory details. I made a mistake at seeing how well he did and did not research it first. Plan and simple a stupid mistake. Out of respect to him I will not put his name out there.
ReplyDeleteProud to be YTB,
I presented myself very professional and confident, with enthusiasm and excitement.
In fact, the one client i had was having trouble with his cc when he was booking his hotel room, and he called me, so I did the whole reservation and did get it to accept his card. He was very grateful, and I even sent him a thank you gift (a wall calendar), along with the Fun & Travel Magazine, after he enjoyed his hotel stay. (They drove to where they were going, so I didn't get any travel bus, it was just a hotel booking.)
Ok, you say you made flyers. I suppose you left them on parked cars in the parking lot.
ReplyDeleteThere's 1 mistake. Majority of flyers left on cars get thrown out imediately... without being read.
Business cards at various places you visit.
Depending on the place, a lot of proprietors may just take them and gradually throw them out (if it's a place you frequent). many dispose of them the instant you drive off. Some do keep them available to their clients, but in a pile of others. there are still those that do work.
Instead of wasting your money on business cards to just "throw them away" like that, ask a business if they have a bulletin board. post a flyer there. If people are interested, they will copy down the info.
face to face... again, the way you portray yourslf to others is crucial! Try to get the client first! Control the conversation by asking the client questions. get them to talk about their vacation interests... what they like, where they've been and where they'd like to go.
If they ask about the business opportunity, the arrange for them to either go to a meeting with you or set up a meting between you, that person and someone in your upline. If your immediate upline is busy, find the next higher up.
You may be to caught up in trying to "sell". Don't. instead, you have to inform them about the business opportunity. Understand?
Listen to Proud--she knows what she is saying. NOT!
ReplyDeleteAll she does is blow smoke up the ass of whoever is listening. She says she's a director, but who knows. She says she is making a gaziullion dollars, but who knows. She says she paid off a mortgage for a neighbor this winter, but who knows.
I suspect she is one of those that are struggling in YTB and not making money but defending it to the death in hoped that the $90 paycheck will tuern into one like Coachs buddy Ron Head.
I love the way you edumacated folks answer facts with trite little comments. VEEEEEERY impressive.
ReplyDelete"A lugit? As usual the uneducated talking about YTB...not a surprise. You are exactly the type of person they prey on."
Get a clue, and get a life!
As Buggs would say...
What a maroon.
The flyers I passed out were on BB's as well as through mailngs. I would never stick one on someones vehicle.
ReplyDeleteAf far as where I left business cards, it was always at a business that I did much business with. I asked, there where delighted to oblige, and I left them in a very nice card holder. Some even offered to set out my business cards before I even had the chance to ask for permission to do so.
And as far as finding the next in line in the upline, I was never given that information.
Can't get answers when no one answers questions.
Pretty sad, actually.
What is worse, is I helped my sponser more than they ever helped me. There was so much they didn't know about that I found out and passed on to them. (Of course they havwe the same bro in law), so it is like we got sucked in and then we either sink or swim.
I posted an audio that provides info, and I told you can look him up.
ReplyDeleteIf you can't type "Charles W King" into google, but you just decide to take a swipe at a man with a great reputation, than I guess that you feel it's ok to make slanderous coments about people with out even doing a little research.
The US Government believes the mlm is a real business model, so what's your beef?
Is it really worth all your valuable time sitting there bashing a business model that will never go away.
Soon there will be tougher regulations in this industry, and I for one look forward to that.
We need to eliminate the bad apples from the industry even if it makes it a little harder on the real companies.
These blogs only accomplish one thing. They hurt those that want a better life, but are turned away from good viable opportunities because of people that lack knowlege.
I really hate to see the industry that I love be hurt not only by people in the industry who lack integrity, but also by people who post negative information about mlm when they don't understand the industry.
The US Government understands it, and endorses it. It also watches for real scams (yes, I know they exsist in mass).
How can you sit there and call YTB a scam when the US Government accepts them as legal and ethical?
----How were you targeting people?-
ReplyDeletehad enough said, "In person, flyers (really nice colored flyers with my info and such on them, also had travel specials on them), my 2 different sites (YTB and also vacation media), on the phone, leaving my biz cards at various places I do business with, mailings."
What you have done is a nice effort, but explains a bit why you failed. None of that stuff individually and collectively will work.
Leaving your biz cards at various places is purely a waste of time if you did not in return get a name, cell phone number, and their email. I always politely ask and have never been turned down. I tell them I will email them a video about our company and ask what is a good time I can call back (3-way call with my business partner) to answer any questions they may have. You must follow up. There is no way you can't be successful if you just mirror the examples of top producers. Yes, for many, me included, this means traveling outside your CZ (comfort zone). Many who try this end up going back to their CZ and give up. Remember, it takes 21 to 30 days operating outside your CZ to feel comfortable once again. I hope you don't mind a little story somewhat related to the issue.
There was once an old man fishing off a pier. Next to him was a little boy. The old man noticed the boy catching fish after fish, while the old man could not even get a bite. They old man turned to the boy and said, "Young man, how is it that you catch all these fish and I have caught none?" The boy replied with several mumbled words that the old man could not understand. The boy continued on and on catching more fish while the old man caught none. In frustration the old man asked again. "Please, young man, how is it that you are catching all these fish and I have caught none?" The boy looked at the old man and replied again with several mumbled words. The old man now became angry and yelled at the boy, "I CAN'T UNDERSTAND A WORD YOU ARE SAYING!" Just then, the boy turned his head, then spit everything from his mouth into the bucket. He gazed up at the old man and with a loud voice said, "Mr. I keep try'n to tell ya...ya gotta keep the worms warm!!"
Now, the old man learned much from that little pro that day. It was tough leaving his comfort zone. 21 to 30 days it took to get all those fish on his hook.
Oh geeze...I just know I'm gonna take some heat for my little story!
I...was that little boy.
Here's a little help regarding Dr. Kink...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.charleswking.com/biography.html
Excuse me all of you superior educated spelling police, I meant Dr. King.
ReplyDeleteNotice that Dr. King's new book will include WorldVentures :-)
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteHere's a little help regarding Dr. Kink...
Trust me folks, don't ever do a Google on Dr. Kink. Don't need that kind of help! LOL
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteNotice that Dr. King's new book will include WorldDentures :-)
Isn't WorldDentures that new travel club for senior citizens? ;>)
Dr. Charles King. Why is his personal website the authoritative source on the man? I would not expect any negatives on his site.
ReplyDeleteNow regarding this comment by anonymous...
I posted an audio that provides info, and I told you can look him up.
If you can't type "Charles W King" into google, but you just decide to take a swipe at a man with a great reputation, than I guess that you feel it's ok to make slanderous coments about people with out even doing a little research.
The US Government believes the mlm is a real business model, so what's your beef?
Is it really worth all your valuable time sitting there bashing a business model that will never go away.
Soon there will be tougher regulations in this industry, and I for one look forward to that.
We need to eliminate the bad apples from the industry even if it makes it a little harder on the real companies.
These blogs only accomplish one thing. They hurt those that want a better life, but are turned away from good viable opportunities because of people that lack knowlege.
I really hate to see the industry that I love be hurt not only by people in the industry who lack integrity, but also by people who post negative information about mlm when they don't understand the industry.
The US Government understands it, and endorses it. It also watches for real scams (yes, I know they exsist in mass).
How can you sit there and call YTB a scam when the US Government accepts them as legal and ethical?
So now it is my blog that is responsible for the downslide of all who were going to see the light of YTB and they will fail because they did NOT join? Am I reading this right?
As for the gov't endorsing it. Can you source that please. Even your own people say that federal regulations may change and rule YTB illegal--and you have no recourse. So YTB, while possibly currently legal, is certainly walking on that fine line.
I know for a fact that there are investigations pending (if they go anywhere is anyone's guess) with the IRS and the FTC on both YTB and some of the Reps/RTAs. I also know for a fact that several states are also looking into the business practices.
Now if anything ever materializes, who is to say.
But why does it not raise a red flag to you when your company comes out and admits that it operates in a borderline legal fashion?
Dear Had enough,
ReplyDeleteLet me ask you a couple of questions...
1. Where have you traveled? What interests you? If you are trying to be all things to all people, you will fail.
If you are serious about being in travel, get the heck away from YTB, specialize in a couple of places or things that you really know well or care about and go from there.
YTB recruits people who have no education or experience which is why so many end up failing. You can't just wake up one day and decide to be in travel when you've never even left the state.
It sounds like you really tried and I wish you all the luck in the world. But if you are serious about this industry then a get rich quick scheme will not get you there.
Just forget it John, you ARE the supreem athority for all things business.
ReplyDeleteI guess you'll just keep wasting your valuable time attacking YTB just because you really care about all of those unsuspecting suckers that YTB will scam.
And with NO axe to grind.
Give me a break.
Is your time so unvaluable that you can waste it on this useless blog that does nothing positive.
I would much rather prefer to spend my valuable extra hours with my family.
But, to each his own.
I'm done with this nonsense. NO, I will not return to read any of the useless banter that spews from the keyboards of people that are bitter about progress.
Back to my family. I can't believe I even waised one minute of time that I can never recover on this crap.
Enjoy your bitterness folks, I choose to spend my time with more joyful folks.
Have a good life (or at least try).
Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out!
ReplyDeleteTravel Temptress
ReplyDelete-----Where have you traveled?
I haven't traveled. But was looking forward to doing so, when the opportunity arose.
----What interests you?
Traveling interests me. With all the kids growing up, it is something my husband and I have spoke of many times.
I did leave YTB. I have education, but have absolutely no experience in the industry, although I am still educating myself as much as possible so that I may get into the industry one day.
I agree, a get rich quick scheme will not get me there, unfortunately, I had to learn that the hard way.
"Those who treat it like a hobby and don't try to build on it, and don't ask for help when it is always readily available... and then quit deserve NO SYMPATHY! When someone is in YTB, they are treated like family! If they quit, they quit the family. their choice."
ReplyDeleteWhoa!! Talk about having drunk the kool-aid...
So a good percentage of people in YTB treat it like a hobby and not a real business? Thanks for pointing that out.
ReplyDeletehad enough said, "I agree, a get rich quick scheme will not get me there, unfortunately, I had to learn that the hard way."
ReplyDeleteWow! You "had to learn the hard way" that "a get rich scheme" will not get you there?
Thus we have the reason for your failure. You, by your own words, were looking for a quick get rich scheme. With that kind of mentality, it's no wonder you were a failure. It's apparent you were focused on the money and not the desire to helping people succeed and pay it forward. Anyone who thinks this is the way to riches is a fool. Out of everything you posted, this last sentence reveals what you a really about.
As I suggested to a very embittered TravelLisa, I recommend you watch two of the most power videos that will change your life.
#1 The Secret
#2 Pay It Forward
The Secret reveals how negative thinking affects your entire life...now and in the future. What you think about, you bring about. JF, TravelLisa, YTBSCAM and others spew forth negative thoughts on this blog. These negative thoughts rule supreme in their minds. They will say "no so", but the subconscious mind knows better. What they don't understand is that it comes back to them in other relationships whether dealing with friends or loved ones, or a business client. It will affect how successful you will be in the future.
Please watch both videos. You will be amazed how successful you can become!
1. for the last time, i am not a "she".
ReplyDelete2. I have stated over and over in almost every single blog that YTB is NOT a get rich quick scheme, and never was. It is, however quite lucritive if treated like a business.
3. If people don't realize that they have a very powerful product with YTB and don't fully believe in it, and treat it like a hobby, they will fail. This is NOT the fault of YTB, but rather te fault of the person who fails to treat it for what it really is... A BUSINESS!!!
Those who don't treat it like a business will never fully grasp the opportunity and quit. So be it. Out fo human nature, it is easier for people to just give up when things don't seem to go quick enough for them instead of overcoming each and every obstacle that is thrown at them. Hey, it wasn't easy for me at first either, but there's a difference between you and I. I have never in my life backed away from a challenge! I welcome it! I say, the more challenging... the better! The bigger the chalenge, the greater the reward!
If you get the DVD "The secret", you will better understand the one thing everyone's life is based upon! i can sum it up a little bit here.
The Secret is about one law that controls us all. it's the law of attraction. Everything that happens in our lives, good or bad is because we have attracted them to ourselves! If you attract succcess, you will be successful! if you attract negativity, you will become negative and unfortunately fail at everything you try. Get the DVD and watch it. It will explain far more than I or olescorekeeper ever could.
It may even change your mentality.
You know what scorekeeper, I wasn't looking for over night success, but after a few months, i was expect something, other than the 59.25.
ReplyDeleteSure I wanted to make money. No I didn't expect it over night, but I did expect to get a return.
All you hear is how "easy" it is, but that is not the case.
Pay it forward? Yes I paid it forward, in fact I bought my daughters biz cards to help her get started, also bought her some success mags and other things to help her along. Don't tell me about paying it forward, because I am one of the most giving people you would ever have the privilege of meeting, if you were ever lucky enough to have that chance. I pay it forward daily to those less fortunate than me. That has absolutely nothing to do with this.
I got into it for the TRAVEL. I learned pretty quick that was not the "big picture". I played their game, and I lost. The main thing they talk about is the marketing side of it, not much is said about the travel side.
You can spew junk towards me, but unless you can speak to me in an intelligent manner I won't reply back. I didn't finally post on here to bicker. I came on here to offer whatever information I could to help people make a decision. I certainly don't want people ending up in the same situation I did, however, it is their choice to make. If they have facts from both sides of the business, then they can make their choice accordingly.
I don't know if you are in YTB, and I really don't care one way or the other, but what I do care about is people see what can or can't happen, so that that can make an earnest choice. If they knowingly jump in and do well, then thats great, but if they unknowingly jump in and fail because it really isn't what they thought it was, well THAT concerns me. It is hard enough to make a living as it is without the added extra burden of throwing money away on a "business" that you don't see returns on.
had enough said..."You know what scorekeeper, I wasn't looking for over night success, but after a few months, i was expect something, other than the 59.25."
ReplyDeleteOf course you did, and you were paid exactly what you were worth...$59.25.
You said, "All you hear is how "easy" it is, but that is not the case."
You know what? You are just digging a bigger hole in your defense. I had some respect for you until you made that statement.
First you say, "a get rich quick scheme will not get me there, unfortunately, I had to learn that the hard way."
You admit, you wanted to "get rich quick".
Now you say, "All you hear is how "easy" it is, but that is not the case."
Mrs. Had Enough, you also wanted it to become "easy" to "get rich" Sad.
Do you hear what you are saying? Suzie Orman did! "Girlfriend, you need some real help here!"
Proud is right, "If you get the DVD "The secret", you will better understand the one thing everyone's life is based upon!"
Only then, will you become successful.
You know what Had Enough? Enough said. I don't expect a reply. Have a nice day!
ReplyDeletescorekeeper,
ReplyDeleteyou are trying to twist my words. I guess I should have worded it differently.
I was merely wording it as it was worded to me. My mistake.
I was paid exactly what I was worth?
Your post is vicious and nasty.
I will not waste anymore time replying to you.
I wish you much success.
Thank you Mrs. Had Enough. Now please, go watch The Secret.
ReplyDeleteFrom people IN YTB it is not a get rich quick scheme, but if one attends any of the seminars, the notion is not quashed. No they don't come out and say that you will have millions, but the allusion is there--awarding $250K, the director sayiung he earned $1M in the last year and he had only been in it for two years. Power team leaders claiming to make $30K a month (which I now know is an outright lie from seeing Scott's spreadsheet).
ReplyDeleteSo please don't put all the blame on Had Enough.
This is so typical of the not with us against us mentality. When someone has a bad experience, you attack them.
Real class act. At least (for the most part) I stick to the issues and attack them and concepts.
Old Score Keeper....Which category Rep are you? are you one of the 246K who made nothing, the 44K who made $90, or the 12K who made $1.8K last year?
I suspect that you too were paid what you were worth.
I think Had Enough's experience is very typical of what happens to someone who joins YTB, and is a big part of the reason the petition and the blog were started in the first place. With over a half a million members who joined and have made no income, I am sure there are many more like Had Enough who are just too embarassed to come forward.
ReplyDeleteI am AMAZED at how nasty some of the comments are towards this person. It takes a lot of guts to admit that you have failed and ask for help, and many of the comments directed at him/her are nothing short of cruel. Yes a positive mindset and believing in yourself does make a difference, but sometimes you do everything you can and it still doesn't work. Since it hasn't worked for over a quarter of a million other YTBers, I think perhaps you are pointing the finger in the wrong direction.
P.S. Don't suggest someone watch the Secret or Pay It Forward while you're insulting them. You're an idiot.
Exactly.!
ReplyDeleteIf YTB told the truth during their cult meetings..i.e. "99% of you signing up tonitght will fail and actually lose money in this venture" the downline would disappear and YTB would fail. So of course, they don't. They sure don't like anyone saying so, do they? Check out the DVD 'The Truth Hurts.'
ReplyDelete"Power team leaders claiming to make $30K a month (which I now know is an outright lie from seeing Scott's spreadsheet)."
ReplyDeletepoint me to a Power Team leader that said this...
I may have said that I make over $30K a month, but you see... I am a Director.That's a far ways from just being a Power Team Leader.
"This is so typical of the not with us against us mentality. When someone has a bad experience, you attack them."
And when you see us telling about the good experience we're having, you attack us.
"Real class act. At least (for the most part) I stick to the issues and attack them and concepts."
You had a fair share of doing your own attacking.
"I am AMAZED at how nasty some of the comments are towards this person. It takes a lot of guts to admit that you have failed and ask for help, and many of the comments directed at him/her are nothing short of cruel. Yes a positive mindset and believing in yourself does make a difference, but sometimes you do everything you can and it still doesn't work. "
Yeah, she went for help... when she got none from that person, she should have tried someone else. There are plenty of people in YTB willing to help out. They don't necessarily have to be in your upline. Every business... no matter what it is has it's bad ponts. She was in a bad point, so she quit.
She says that she was trying. Maybe she was trying a little to hard, and trying the wrong approach. Yes, how you approach people plays a major factor! she may have been trying to "sell" the business instead of "informing" of a business opportunity. There's a huge difference between selling and informing. Again, YOU are the one who is responsible for your success or failure. The product is there. It all depends on how you present it to others. Nobody ever said YTB would be easy, and I knew from the start that it wouldn't be. Like I said, at first, I had trouble, but I got together with my upline and not only listene to what they had to say, but also put in some ideas that I thought of while talking with them. All of a sudden, it started to work for me. Why? because I was determined and eager to learn. to be succeassful, find a successful person and listen to them!
YTB was never claimed to be a get rich quick deal, but the rewards are definately there! At our meetings, we do explain this. We also eplain that there is no time limit to improve your life. You move at your pace!
YTB also states that there is no guarantee of success! I can't believe I have to state this to you again!!!
Do nothing = Get nothing
Do a little = get a little
Try to do it on your own = slim chance for success
Stay plugged into the system and follow the direction of your upline... especially your Director! Keep a dialogue open with your upline. Ask questions. Use your support tickets from your back office and contact YTB with questions. Call YTB HQ!
The pathways for help are endless! She said she did all she could do. No, she didn't. Instead fo blaming YTB for her failure, she should have been trying to figure out what exactly she was doing wrong. If she wass still in YTB, instead of being so "critical", I would have jumped right in to help her. Instead for looking for other routes for help like some I've stated above, she quit.
I do apologize for being a bit rude, but it just kills me when people just give up. Like I said, quitting is the easiest thing for anyone to do. Quitting also gets you nowhere.
Here's a little tory about my son. I'm sure everyone has gone through this.
When he came to the age where kids remove their training wheels, he was the last of his friends to do so. He was scared. We dinally dod take his training wheels off so he could try riding without them. He fell. He wanted to give up, and I urged him to keep trying. He tried a few more times and fell some more. I then told him that we could take a break and try again at a later time. I began to tinker with his bicycle a little bit. every couple of days, I gradually raised his training wheels a little further off the ground. When I saw thet he was at the point of barely using them, i mentioned that he should try riding without them again. We took them off and he didn't fall. He rode up and down the street shouting at the top of his lungs, "I got my training wheels off!"
How does this pertain to YTB?
Well, in YTB, the Director as well as your upline are your "training wheels". Although they are never totally removed, they are there for support when you need them. Eventually, you will be not so dependent on your upline, and you will become a the training wheels for someone else.
There are 3 catagories that fit my job profile, and I do each and every one of them 110%
1. Seller of Travel
2. Business promoter
3. TRAINER
Above #1, I am a TRAINER! i believe this is the most important duty of mine with YTB. When someone comes into my team, it's part of my job to make sure they have the proper training. I make sure that the person who is their sponsor is also working with the newcomer.
I did receive a few e-mails regarding the lack of help from some sponsors. I also contacted those sponsors and let them know that since they are not working with the particulay person they added to their team, I will work with them... because they are part of my team as well and I wil do EVERYTHING I CAN to help that person be successful! One of them has actually made it to his Power Team before his sponsor did. This person has also received his 3rd $1000 bonus! Just to think that a few months ago, he wanted to quit. Now he's glad he didn't. he is also now building his downline with very little help at all!
No guarantee of success = 99% failure rate.
ReplyDeleteTravel Temptress said..."I am AMAZED at how nasty some of the comments are towards this person."
ReplyDeleteHey TT, when she was with YTB you and your friends on this blog would have called her:
One of the rats (JF)
moron
snake (Anon)
idiot (ytbscam)
YTB scum
lowest scum on this earth (ytbscam)
cultish (ytbscam)
cult-like (Andrew)
sucked-in (TT)
a minion
liar
worthless
sucker (JF)
rouge
blinded (TL)
brainwashed (TL)
a joke
deplorable (TL)
scammer
foolish
kool-aid drinker
Give me a break!
Proud to be YTB said
ReplyDeletepoint me to a Power Team leader that said this...
The power team leader that led my meeting in Columbia MD a few months ago. I can dig up his name if you like. But then you will just say that it was a bad presentation so what is the point?
I may have said that I make over $30K a month, but you see... I am a Director.That's a far ways from just being a Power Team Leader.
Now I have a gotcha moment Proud. You are so completely full of crap. You "claim" you are a level 1 director and are making $30K per month.
Now, not that Scott Tomer is the most trustworthy source in the world, but according to his spreadsheet, the Level 1 Directors made an average of 85,389.04 per year.
He said the lowest paid Level 1 Director made 12,875.65 per year.
He said the HIGHEST paid Level 1 Director made 252,041.80 for the year. Now, last time I checked there were 12 months in the year. So, provided that YTB has not convinced you there are only 8 months in the year (and they may have..you never know)the highest Level 1 Director would have made $21,003.48 per month.
Now I know I know, you thought I was talking about sales now didn't you? Or are you going to say that you don't want to let on who you are and you are a Level 2 director.
Again, it seems every time someone from YTB speaks it is complete misinformation!
So Proud, YTB is reporting that their #1 Level 1 Director only made $21,000 a month, but you insist you are pulling in a cool $30,000 a month. Seems like a 30% exaggeration to me. So how did that happen.
Oh another misunderstanding I am sure!
John, you are speaking of the LOWEST a level 1 Director makes. That's when a director has only 500 people in his... or her downline (to be fair to the lady Directors). Now, I have a lot more than 500 people in my downline, so yes I am stating that I DO make OVER $30K a month. And yes, I am a level 1. I won't reach Level 2 for a while.
ReplyDeleteProud--either your are lying to me or YTB is lying to everyone. Which is it??
ReplyDeleteDirectly from the spreadsheet handed out (call HQ and get a copy or look in your backoffice as that seems to hold the answers to everything)
As of 1/16/08 reflecting INCOME from 2007
All this from Leve 1 Directors:
Average hours worked per week :40
Number of Reps at this level: 122
Percent of Active Reps: 0.21%
Percent of ALL Reps: 0.04%
High Annual Income: $252,041.80
Low Annual Income: $12,875.65
Average Annual Income: $85,389.04
Months in program--high: 63
Months in the program--low: 4
Months in program--average: 30
So there you have it. I advise you to call Scott and get your numbers straight, because if you are telling people at your meetings--the ones that are run so correctly--that you are making 30K a month, you are passing along bad information.
SO, who is right?
We don't discuss personal incomes at our meetings John. Why? Because what I make doesn't pay the new recruit's bills. Only what the new recruit generates in income will.
ReplyDeletejohn, the income list for directors does not include commissions earned from personal travel sales... and i have booked quite a few lucritive group cruises last year. I look forward to having more of them this year! I tallied up my earnings from both sides of the business (some months I did more than others) and took ana average by dividing by 12. It worked out that I made just over (by the skin of my teeth) $30,000 a month (on average). I plan on increasing that average by the end of next year. I'm already getting returning clients either contacting me for my services or using my website themselves. I've also had a few new clients who were referred to me by my previous clients. Word of mouth advertising at it's finest!
Makes AT LEAST $9000/mo in commissions but didn't make it to the Birthday Bash? Sure, why not?
ReplyDeleteBS a little = YTB RTA
BS a lot = might as well call yourself a director
"the income list for directors does not include commissions earned from personal travel sales"
ReplyDeleteHUH???? WHY NOT?
And you wonder why we have problems believing the numbers that YTB publishes.
Anonymous--that actually makes sense. They differentiate the two opportunities. This is what initially kept them from being deemed and illegal pyramid scheme.
ReplyDeleteI have not seen a year end on the RTA side of the business, and if Proud has made up the difference in selling travel, I imagine he is probably the #1 salesperson in YTB.
They claim to have sold $500M in 2007 which represents approx $50M in commissions and at 142K RTAs it is $352 per year on the average. Looking at 2006 financials and travel commissions paid out of $7.3M based on the number of RTAs the incremental sales is negligible.
iontop, I was on the cruise. I believe it was TravelPro who said he wasn't there.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I have quite a few other great travel selling agents in my downline... aminly the ones I personally signed on. It's those people that give me my 50% match. again, so you don't get confused... th 50% match is paid to me by YTB and doesn't have any affect on the pay of anyone in my downline. They still get their full share.
Since the travel pay is not reflected in the marketing side, it is not included in those figures posted.
According to the sheet from Scott Tomer the highest-earning L1 Director made $21,000/mo. on the marketing side. So are you claiming you make $9,000/mo. in travel commissions from personal sales and downline matches?
ReplyDeleteLike I said iontop, those are the figures for the marketing side... MARKETING SIDE of the busines NOT the TRAVEL SIDE They are 2 different businesses in YTB.
ReplyDeleteBut I think that's what iontop was asking. The highest paid level 1 director made $21K/mo on the marketing/REP side. If you are making $30K/mo, that means you must be pulling in $9K/mo from selling travel/RTA side, right?
ReplyDeleteCorrect me if that's not what you meant, iontop...
Let me put it this way so you would understand.
ReplyDeleteThese figures have absolutely NOTHING to do with the travel side fo the business.
If there was no travel side, and it was just marketing... building a downline, then those figures would be set in stone as to what every director makes.
Since there is a travel side, and the RTAs are booking travel and earning commissions and 50% matches, it drives the number higher, because now travel sales figures are being declared.
Proud--
ReplyDeleteLISTEN PLEASE!
You say in YTB you earn $30K a month. Fine.
Per YTB Corporate, the MOST any Level 1 director made in 2007 was $21,003.48 per month. This is pure marketing Rep side--no travel. We comprehend that--you are having a problem.
If you are making $30K a month from YTB, it stands to reason that you are earning $8996.52 per month from the TRAVEL side of the business. You commissions, any travel over rides and so forth.
So is that right?
Proud--
ReplyDeleteJust backed some numbers and it appears you are losing credibility again. Sorry to break the news.
If you are earning $8996 in commissions, that is (at 70%) equivalent to YTB bringing in $12,850 per month. At 10% commission to YTB across the board (a number many have said is a fair estimation)that means that you sell $128,850 per month. That equals $1,546,200 per year!
With the "average RTA" making $61.65 a month ($739 a year)you must be a superstar. Why are you not on the front page of Your Success?
Maybe she is confusing travel COMMISSIONS with travel SALES?
ReplyDeleteLOL, it seems ALMOST everyone understood the qustion.
ReplyDeleteBut maybe Proud does make 30K per month...it's possible he's a lottery winner and gets $29,940 of it from the state.
No...we covered the commissions vs. sales a while ago.
ReplyDeleteJohn, I believe that I also mentioned 50% matches of those on my team.
ReplyDeleteThose are not reflected in the Director's pay either. The sheet you are looking at only reflects pay regarding the MARKETING side and has NOTHING to do with the TRAVEL side. How can you not understand that? The 50% matches I also get fall under the TRAVEL side, because it it 50% of my downline's TRAVEL commissions.
DUH!
Allow me to make it more clear for you.
ReplyDeleteIf John joined YTB under me and made $1000 in travel commisions last month... I earn half of that 9paid to me by YTB... Not John). I get $500 on top of my own travel commissions. Well, since I have a team, I get a 50% match for their travel sales as well. The person who I joined under receives a 50% match for what I make, so when John earnd $1000 a month, and I earn $500 a month on commissions alone, my sponsor earns $250 from me. This all falls under the TRAVEL side of the pay plan.
What John os referring to is the MARKETING side of the pay plan. Yeah, there's 50% matches too, but these have NOTHING to do with any travel that's booked by anyone.
The further down someone is in my downline, the less I make from them. The level 6 and 7 directors are only making pennies from me.
Now, if you don't understand this and how it is possible for me to be making what I said I'm making, then there's absolutely no hope for you.
Commmission to YTB $1000
ReplyDelete$600 (60% to the agent in prouds downline)
$300 (50% match to Proud because he is in the upline)
$100 (10% over ride because proud is a power team leader)
$1000 (total...so where is YTB making money?)
ANd if the 10% is on the $600, that leaves YTB with $40.
Plus is that person has signed up six people YTB credits then the $50 a month for the site. So this $1000 is costing YTB either $50 or $10.
But hey, no worries there, there are over a hundred thousand rtas that are not selling anything and paying $50 a month and they use that money to support the upline!
Thanks for making that Crystal clear for me proud!
You forgot the marketing REPs who are NOT RTAs.
ReplyDeleteSo, at $40 for YTB, you are saying that the Tomer's aren't geting rich off of us, but rather the other way around.
ReplyDeleteThere goes any thoughts of YTB being a Pyramid... LOL!!
I'm sure the Tomer's have other sources of revenue they are feeding YTB with.
Proud--the bottom of the pyramid is paying the top. Be glad that you think you are on the top!
ReplyDeleteThe Tomer's are NOT feeding YTB with anything but bullshit! They have sold the majority of their stock and are simply cashing the checks from the gullible RTAs that keep sending them to them $50 at a time!
Since you are the know it all of YTB--how many REPS out there are NOT also RTAs? My guess is that the number is insignificant for a number of reasons. 1--it is hard to sell a product if you don't believe in it or have it yourself. 2--there is the ability to have it not cost you anything. 3--there is an additional couple hundred dollars a year you may be able to make. And #4 the almighty big one---the CRTA CREDENTIAL and the allure of the IATAN (oops sorry bout that) I mean the cheap cruise on Royal Caribbean (oops sorry bout that too), I meant CLIA card, discounted travel on some other vendors, and the opportunity to swoondoggle others by imprinting an invalid IATAN number on your own "credential"
Ahhh a post proving my theory today
ReplyDeleteon CL
"YTB is not a pyramid < shelly4travel > 02/01 18:24:27
You cant be a publicly traded company and be a pyramid! And...YTB sold 1/2 BILLION dollars in travel last year - how is that a pyramid?
And by the way - I guess those people that are negative dont like saving money because you do NOT have to participate in the referral marketing part if you dont want to. You should sign up JUST for your own travel alone, because otherwise you're just throwing your money away every time you book on one of those other sites. If you decide to recruit, then thats extra but its a total no brainer to do it if you like to travel. "