In a comment several days ago, someone brought to my attention the fact that there was a new RTA beyond compare. Credentialed out the wazoo by the name of Dr. Bob Seligman, PhD.
Proud to be YTB said...I can't wait to hear how you're going to spin this...
You keep talking and YTB still keeps growing! :)
BTW... if you didn't check this out yet, I suggest you do.Listen to the Audio: http://ytbreport.com/Investigate_YTB.php
- Dr. Bob Seligman, PhD (& RTA)
- PhD in Economics (Oxford)
- MBA in Finance (Harvard)
- Former Senior VP of Corporate Development for Fox, Inc.
- Reported Directly to Billionaire Barry Dillar(Owner / CEO of Expedia, Inc.)
Now, first off, if you use the prefix "Dr." you do not use the suffix "PhD" and vice versa. This was my first guess that this might be a load of crap. My second observation was that the comment looked like it was cut and pasted from the "doctor's" curriculum vitae, and if he was a direct report to the CEO of Expedia, I would think he would know the correct spelling of his boss's name.
So I listened to the recording and picked up some of his other qualifications:
- Executive Director of the Screenwriter's Guild
- Boeing Executive
- Bank of New York Executive
- General Electric Executive
- New York Life Insurance Executive
- Commander of Special Forces in Viet Nam
- 6 Voluntary Tours of Duty in Viet Nam
- Spy
- Government Contractor who developed the counter terrorism unit for the US Secret Service
I figured a man with this much under his belt would have some info about him somewhere. One would think that you could find a doctoral thesis. A mention in the Screenwriter's Guild history. Maybe a listing on the alumni website for Harvard (yes, I have a friend who has access). Nary a mention of a Seligman at GE, Boeing, 20th Century Fox, Bank of New York, or New York Life.
He is not even listed in the UCLA alumni directory--which I have been told is pretty weak as it is so that is no surprise.
Based on his military record, I am assuming this guy "served" for 6 years in Viet Nam. He claims to have received all of his education after the service (right when he was designing the counter terrorist program for the Secret Service and was a spy...without a college education...uhm, OK whatever...)
But if he did serve in Viet Nam, he could very well be the author of a very interesting document. The name and approximate age matches. If this is the same guy, he forgot to list one of his companies--Phillip Morris. Well, here is a copy of a letter authored by a Robert Seligman which was admitted to court in the United States vs. Phillip Morris suit. This Robert Seligman (and it could be a different person) apparently was concerned about the information on pesticides in their tobacco products getting out and recommends clandestine drop boxes and eliminating any written documents--suggesting a coverup. (I have to say, if this is the same guy, he is a dope. What guy with a spy background would write a letter suggesting that there be no written communication?) Again, not sure if it is the RTA Seligman or not, but it is interesting reading for sure.
So in essence, I am, yet again, calling BS on YTB. A person as credentialed and educated as he says he is HAS to have information out there. Even "Proud to be YTB" has several Google returns. So what is the deal? Is he fabricating the story to YTB? Or is YTB fabricating the story to the Reps and RTAs? Or both? I have no idea, but I am 99.9% sure that this "Doctor" is a complete fabrication. Is it a coincidence that the word Seligman is a German word meaning "blessed man"? But at least he will have one Google hit after this post!
Search engines, alumni directories, company histories, professional "data gatherers" in the Washington, DC area all came up blank except for the tobacco thing.
And as to the Harvard credential, we checked under Robert, Bob, and Bobby and even a few alternate spellings of the last name and zilch came up. They checked records in their business school as well as the others and again zilch!
So, Proud to be YTB challenged me in his comment...."if you didn't check this out yet, I suggest you do.". Well, I did. Now, I offer a challenge to you---document it!
It appears that there is yet another scam artist in the midst of YTB. Perhaps he is spending the weekend with Coach and Phil in the Mansion on the Hill!
PS--Isn't it ironic that the seal of Harvard University says "Veritas". Veritas, from Latin meaning honesty and truthfulness.
Why did you waste your time? NO one believed it the first time it was posted!!!!
ReplyDeleteJohn said, "So in essence, I am, yet again, calling BS on YTB."
ReplyDeleteNot fair John. This could be another hoax on YTB. What would the founders of YTB accomplish with "BS"? It serves no purpose. Think about it.
Well then again it wasn't the Phil that we all said it was, oh yes it was....YTB will let anyone in. Doesn't matter who you are.
ReplyDeleteOff the subject, but from last comment from Founders Tour, TO CLARIFY, YOU DON'T HAVE TO TAKE BONUS MONEY IN STOCK...You can take it in cash as well, so John there really is cash. Don't you think if these people were taking bonus money in stock, the stock would be flying thru the roof? Call corporate and clarify.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you about not using Dr. with anything at the end of it, however I know SEVERAL doctors in YTB that have Dr. John Doe M.D. because they want it to be know they are MD aznd not a Chiropractor or whatever.
ReplyDeleteLet's see.....I believe the phrase is "Smoke and Mirrors". Great post John.
ReplyDeleteIf you are a Medical Doctor and want to designate yourself from a chiroquacker, you use John Doe MD (see he is a Medical Doctor--MD...get it? Chiroquackers cannot use that.) If he was a dentist DDS Vet DVM. Educational doctorate--PhD. The Dr. is used in addressing someone personally or for written correspondence--the mailman could care less.
ReplyDeleteOn the bonuses...you need to check with your "copyrighted" compensation plan. Unless the unchangeable BIll of Rights has been changed, here is what it says:
All Achievement Level Bonuses are paid by an equivalent value in stock options in
common stock of YTB International, Inc. issued and deemed earned on June 15 of
each year as to bonuses qualified for January 1 thru June 30, and on January 15
following the calendar year in which the Director qualified for the bonus between
July 1 and December 31. The equivalent value is determined exclusively by YTB.
Paid IN STOCK at a share price solely determined by YTB.
This is what I am pointing out time and time again---YTB people will say anything to make an argument--truth and morality be damned! Ooooh John said it was stock, so I will tell him it is cash and tell him to call Corporate...that will teach him. Well, I do some research and it is paid in Stock. You show the documentation that it is not.
Well, if it was the mythical doctor that scammed YTB (and I honestly am more inclined to believe that) why is YTB still endorsing it and allows his "training" call to be out there. I suggest because many folks will take the buffoon at his word and it is a good sales tool. Oooh a PhD has signed up...must give credit card to upline... must give credit card to upline.
How about YTB doing some research and having some--dare I say it morals when bringing people into the business? The only requirement they need is the ability to pay $50 a month and make sure the upline is paid and a new layer att he bottom of the pyramid is created.
He is also the father of Brittany Spear's love child.
ReplyDeleteBrittany is not preggers...Jamie Lynn is!
ReplyDeleteLOL Too funny----off the subject.
ReplyDeleteOf course, when busted outright, change the subject. Make up some stuff. Do whatever you need to do to deflect from the truth. Under no circumstances are we to let the truth out.
John you have a very strong opionion. You seem to be the type of person that it is your way or the highway. Are you name calling again calling someone in a legit profession a Chiroquacker? All I know since you seem to investigate everything, look in some of the previous Success Magazines and see people holding the bonus checks and I am not talking about 10,000 bonus checks either. Some people use Dr. and MD at the end of their name I suppose EGO but it is their pride I suppose. Does it bother me, no!!!Njoy your weekend.
ReplyDeleteChiroquacker---that's my term. I just don't like them so...oh well.
ReplyDeleteCan you show me a link to a photo where the recipient is holding a negotiable bonus check for US Dollars? Not the big huge check.
I know the $10,000 is cash, but the other bonuses are in stock.
I hope you do not believe that one can walk into a bank with a 2' X 4' check and deposit it...do you?
Coach gives people the option to take the money n stock or in money...we are not allowed to show money by the way, and if people are that is tacky. Do we ask you people how much you make and show us your checks? I don't understand why it bothers you so much. I am with ytb and I am here to tell you there are two sides of the business the marketing side and the travel side...most people work the marketing side of the business, is there a crime in doing this? People with YTB should not act like they are selling so much travel sales because they mostly work the marketing side. There may be a hand full out of over 100,000 reps or rta's selling travel. I personally got in to use the site myself since our family spends WAY more than 5,000 a year and it has worked out great for me. I wish everyone in whatever there business is much success and all this immature name calling and back and forth is so stupid. Do we all live in the USA? The land of the free...you guys act like you want to see people in YTB fall and that is really sad...nor is it very humane!!
ReplyDeleteWOW--truth is exposed and the only thing YTB can do is to change the subject to bonuses and fight with him because he made a quip on a chiropractor.
ReplyDeleteWhat about the meat of the matter YTB...what about enlightening everyone on this Seligman character?
The bonuses are NOT paid in cash. Is this a secret deal with Coach? All I have heard for months is COPYRIGHTED COMPENSATION PLAN....BILL OF RIGHTS.... well the plan says it is paid in STOCK---black and whit go read it for yourself. SO are you telling me that the copyright and BOR are changed on whims?
ReplyDeleteSo you are essentailly saying that you concentrate on the REP side of the business selling opportunities and because you do that you are entitled to travel perks. Where is the logic.
Please do not get me going on the humane end of this. Most in YTB will fail and I do not want to see that of anyone. But when the top dogs blatantly sell the program knoing full well that next to none will succeed---you need to point your humane finger to Wood River!
And industry vet---good point. Not surprising. Typical tactic--divert divert divert. At least Doug has some courage to address the questions
ReplyDeleteJohn I never said anything about Travel Perks...when I sell a site it is usually to people that spend more than 5,000 a year...when you book that you get the clia card anyway, WHY? Because you booked that travel, and you HAD TO TAKE A TEST...This is made really clear at meetings out here where I am. If you don't spend more than that, I wouldn't bother.
ReplyDeleteI will humor the misdirection, but I was told that self sales did not count to your CLIA or CRTA card.
ReplyDeleteAnd is it $1500 in sales or $1500 in commissions. If the latter, you guys are screwed!
John that is why you book on a friends site and visa versa...that's why it is important as I said to make sure you get people that spend min of 5,000 a year in travel...but you are correct personal sales don't count.
ReplyDeletepersonal sales count for commission only
ReplyDeleteI see, so in order to circumvent the procedures that are intended to legitimize the business you work the loophole. You book on mine and I will book on yours.
ReplyDeleteDid they offer a Scamming 101 at the Funshine Fest?
is that a scam? Is it against the law?
ReplyDeleteProbably not against the law, but it woudl be grounds to get your IATAN accreditation yanked.
ReplyDeleteBummer CLIA does not have the same scruples as IATAN
John earlier you had acknowledged this quote from the YTB Report site.
ReplyDelete"This site is in no way affiliated with, sanctioned, approved or endorsed by YTB."
You are now saying, "...why is YTB still endorsing it and allows his "training" call to be out there."
The answer from the two statements above is, YTB is NOT endorsing the Dr. Bob show. There is nothing official from YTB HQ about Dr. Bob that I know of.
When I first heard the tape, my radar went up. I believe it’s possible this was another hoax perpetrated on YTB.
As I said before, it would serve no purpose for Coach to sanction this audio if it was a hoax. Also, if Coach did this full knowing Dr. Bob credentials were bogus, he would also have known it would be out there for everyone to criticize the company for. That's not reasonable to assume in my opinion.
Because Coach knows that many YTB people will believe anything that he puts out there as the truth.
ReplyDeleteYou have people like Proud, CM, TM, EAB, Doug, the list goes on, that believe anything that is told to them from the CEO that is why. Why would Coach care if the smart people who don't buy into their product anyway, would scutinize the hoax? When he has thousands of blind minions sending in their $50 a month?
Not everyone is going to be a purchaser of a site so I personally have them as customers.
ReplyDeleteThat site is by far not the only site where this recording is featured.
ReplyDeleteI know that YTB reads this site. So I will be curious to see if the Dr. Bob show is pulled or not.
I do think it is reasonable that the CEO of a company does what he can to protect the reputation of the company...don't you? If there is mis-information out there, most legitimate companies will look to set the record straight. If most legitimate companies have a rogue employee, they get rid of him. But then again, perhaps Kim S is not done "legitimizing" YTB yet.
So, until that happens, might as well let it go. And after all, if only one person believes Dr. Bob and signs up--that is $500 and $50 a month more in the upline pocket!
While there is a bit of mud slinging going on, I wouldn't call any of it inhumane. That's a little over the top.
ReplyDeleteWhen you visit an anti mlm site, you should probably expect some of the comments to be against mlms. If you were looking for warm fuzzies you came to the wrong place.
I think for the most part no one here is wishing anyone any ill will or harm, but we do wish that people who claim to be in the travel industry actually have some travel training and not abuse the fams and other industry perks.
I am thrilled at YTB's decision to insist upon the use of the name "associate" rather than "agent" as it may help clear up some of the confusion as to what YTBers really are. (see, I said something nice about YTB)However I would be a lot more impressed if they actually implemented some training standards, and did something about the misleading, get rich quick propaganda that is available at meetings and on-line.
It will be interesting to find out who this doctor guy really is.
John;
ReplyDeletePaying bonuses in stock only was changed in March when the compensation plan was updated. I’m not surprised that some remember the bonuses being paid in cash. It was an option at as early as late 2006.
You are correct that as of now all Director Bonuses are in stock. (As the document clearly states.)
You will also notice in all pictures with people holding that large 2x4 checks, they are male. The real ones are given to females. ;-P (Keep that in mind Ann and Lisa)
Who ever it was that said “I” blindly follow what ever Coach would tell me...
While I would certainly be inclined to believe what this good man would tell me, I’ve been listening to Neil Boortz here in Atlanta for much longer than Coach who quotes.
“Don’t believe a word I say, unless you can verify it on your own to be true.”
Coach is worth Millions, and in order to make Millions myself, I should listen to him. Why I would listen to anyone who is broke and miserable isn’t worth listening too. I also need to inform everyone, Coach is a Steelers fan, and I HAVE to give him some credit for that.
Coach is one of the most genuine people I have ever met. Far more than most who I see criticize him. Of course I really don’t know most of you as well as I know Coach to really make that kind of statement now do I? (Think about it.)
I spent the day in Training with about 1200 new RTA’s here in Atlanta today. I’d conclude that my day was far more productive and positive than spending it here.
Night all.
OK, let's get this straight now. In a comment on John's blog on Jan 21, olescorekeeper introduced the ytbreport.com website (Proud also posted it later). I found it, ummm, interesting at best. For some reason, I am unable to listen to "the call" by "Dr Seligman", but I did notice the website referenced during the attempt to download. www.yourrtatraining.com. So I went there thinking that maybe on a different website I could listen to it. Lo and behold, there's a lovely website for RTA training (pushing anything but travel training) sponsored by Level 1 Director Steve Bailey, and Level 2 Director Michael Accurso. I begin to peruse this site. Fast forward to now while the YTBers (including olescorekeeper) are saying "Dr Seligman" could be a hoax perpetrated on YTB and what would they have to gain by doing this? Well, you tell me. If you go to yourrtatraining.com, click on the recorded training tab, what do you see in the dropdown menu? An interview, Alan Horton with Guest Bob Seligman. Again, I can't listen to it, so I can only imagine, but why would 2 directors post an interview with a hoax?
ReplyDeleteAre you telling me that Steve Bailey and Michael Accurso are hoaxes too? Or just that "Dr Seligman" has managed to scam the scammers?
You are really an idiot. Obviuusly they are working the marketing side of the business, and there is nothing wrong with that. Remember there are two sides of this business 1.MARKETING and 2. TRAVEL. Your point is?
ReplyDeleteAnd just who are you directing the idiot comment to?
ReplyDeleteWhatever. It's really not worth replying to someone who hides behind "anonymous" anyway.
Come out, come out, whoever you are!
Do you even know what a phd is? just because a person has a phd doesn't mean that person is a MD, but every doctor has a phd. Here's the definition of a phd.
ReplyDeletephd
noun
a doctorate usually based on at least 3 years graduate study and a dissertation; the highest degree awarded graduate study [syn: Ph.D.]
Here's how it works:
A.A> or A.S.
Bachelors
Masters
PHD
Ann you and all the other people who think you know everything. There are 2 sides of this business...maybe most DON'T want to do the travel side...did ya ever think of that huh? Further more you might not be Ann you could be Jake for allwe know.
ReplyDeleteListStill, give those tickets a good close read. Travel Company Scams Oprah Fans [Wtop] Reservations for the Oprah Show [Official site] ...
ReplyDeletegridskipper.com/travel/celebs/fabulizing-travel-agent-next-on-oprahs-shit-list-155912.php - 22k - Cached - Similar pages
WHAT A REAL TA SCAMMED SOMEONE OH KNOW THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE...
Do you even know what a phd is? just because a person has a phd doesn't mean that person is a MD, but every doctor has a phd. Here's the definition of a phd.
ReplyDeletephd
noun
a doctorate usually based on at least 3 years graduate study and a dissertation; the highest degree awarded graduate study [syn: Ph.D.]
Here's how it works:
A.A> or A.S.
Bachelors
Masters
PHD
Well, it is comments like these that affirm Scott's statement that you don't need to be smart to do their business.
Proud, next tie you are at the dentist or your doctor, ash where he earned his PhD. PhD is an educational doctorate and not a disciplined doctorate. All "Doctors" do not have PhDs. I would venture to say it is the rare disciplined doctor that has a PhD. That post is plain ignorant. Most disciplined doctors graduate with a BS from a 4 year college or university and then enter a specialized program for their discipline--medical school, dental school, veterinary school, etc. They DO NOT continue on to receive a graduate PhD (most don't I am sure some do).
IT has now been said that I am foolish for not realizing there are two sides to the business. I am not sure what this has to do with the topic at hand. Are you saying that because it is in the recruiting end, deception and scamming are ok?
Hey Proud, take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Medicine to just how wrong you are about degrees. MD, DDS, and similar degrees simply are not PhDs.
ReplyDeleteAbove should read "to see just". I was typing too fast this morning.
ReplyDeleteIf Seligman is being used as a prop for ytb - then they need to validate his statements and declarations.
ReplyDeleteDoug - have someone back up this guy's claims and clear the air.
I did a little checking and am having a hard time validating several items myself.
Tom
If Seligman is being used as a prop for ytb - then they need to validate his statements and declarations.
ReplyDeleteDoug - have someone back up this guy's claims and clear the air.
I did a little checking and am having a hard time validating several items myself.
Tom
Who the hell are you and what have you done with Tom?
Points taken. I never said I was a Dr. I will say that my medical doctor DOES have a Ph.D and DOES put it in his signature right after MD. Therefore i assumed that all Dr's had Ph.D.
ReplyDeleteAlso, disecting your statement of difference between education and discipline... Education is discipline. Think about it. When people go into higher education, they are disciplining themselves to learn.
Anyway, you misssed my point about Bob.
People who have a PHD may use Dr. in their surname. I've had college instructors who had Dr. as their surname... with PHD following. Were they doctors? NO! They were people who held a doctrine.
Doctors have "Dr. John Smith MD"
People with doctrines have "Dr. John Smith Ph.D"
About that sly remark about my education John, I am about as educated if not more than you are.
rofl
ReplyDeleteBut more on the topic---so what does YTB have to say about Doctor Robert Seligman Doctor of Philosophy?
ReplyDeletePeople BELIEVE in Doctrines they hold DOCTORATES! Although in light of this topic, I find that Freudian slip to be amusing.
ReplyDeleteWithout getting all Emily Post on the semantics of the proper usage, the word "doctor" or the abbreviation "Dr" is usually used in addressing--either directly--- Hello, Dr. Smith...or in an envelope Dr. Robert Smith
The initials usually come in a signature or a curriculum vitae to discern between the two
Robert Smith PhD obviously had a doctorate (not doctrine)in something related more towards education than a professional doctorate.
Likewise, Robert Smith M.D is obviously a Medical Doctor.
Most people would assume that the first was not a medical doctor, and the second was not a college professor.
I have always heard that it is considered pompous and gauche to use a prefix and a suffix together. And it makes sense as it is duplicating the message
Doctor Bill Smith Medical Doctor
Doctor Bill Smith Doctor of Philosophy
Go back to television..Marcus Welby MD
When YTBers book a cruise do they have info on each port? Whether the ship will be doctrine or tendon?
ReplyDeleteAnd I really don't expect we'll hear any more about Seligman than we did about Piccolo...
Proud is wrong again. Is anyone surprised? This person spews crap like nobody. I hate to say it but Proud is even worse than EAB. I wonder if this is just another "misunderstaning". Just like ole Scamer...I mean Tomer said...."You don't have to be smart to be in this business". Now that is the kind of thing I'd want to hear from my "boss". What a pompous ass.
ReplyDeleteHahahahahaha LOL!!! Iontop, about the ports... yes, YTB has info about the ports... ALL the ports.
ReplyDeleteYeah the YTB people sure snuck around the Phil infomation. Proud definitely doesn't want to touch that one again. Because he/she knows it couldn't be THAT Phil. No way? So is it Phil MD? Or is it Phil PI? Or is it Phil BA...you name it, I'm sure he has it.
ReplyDeleteJust another of the many things that "Proud" the so called director was wrong about. Everytime it spews out its mouth, there is always some form of misinformation. Remember..."you don't have to be smart to be in this business"....and we are seeing exactly what Mr. Tomer meant.
Which port is open in CZM? Which cruise line calls on PLS as a port of call? Where do ships dock in BDA?
ReplyDelete"Ann you and all the other people who think you know everything. There are 2 sides of this business...maybe most DON'T want to do the travel side...did ya ever think of that huh? Further more you might not be Ann you could be Jake for allwe know."
ReplyDeleteNo, I'm Ann. I didn't feel the need to hide behind anonymous to get my point across for this blog entry.
Which, by the way, you missed totally. (And just for your edification, if you've read any of my posts on any of the forums I frequent, you will see that I can be somewhat reasonable on this subject. Ask Doug.)
But if you want to make the subject the 2 sides of the business, you do make it clear as to where YOU stand...
"maybe most DON'T want to do the travel side"
...which is the whole point of this blog.
Suppliers, can you hear us now?
stll doesn't make it against the law, there are people who do work travel side and that cant be disputted. your point is pointless you all are mad because people have a choice of which side of the business to work
ReplyDeleteNo one said it was against the law, but assuming a fasle identity might be.
ReplyDeleteTHe issue is that if you are working the recruiting side, why are you taking perks for the travel people
If someome is just a REP, they don't get a travel site, and don't sell travel... and don't get perks.
ReplyDeleteA n RTA gets all that. An RTA can also elect to be a REP as well to benefit from both sides of the business.
If someome is just a REP, they don't get a travel site, and don't sell travel... and don't get perks.
ReplyDeleteA n RTA gets all that. An RTA can also elect to be a REP as well to benefit from both sides of the business.
NEWS FLASH---we get that. We already know that. But what about Doctor Seligman?
(and please don't anwer with "we have a Bill of Rights" that protects us." Tell us about Doctor Seligman. ANd while your at it tell us about Phil PIccolo
"stll doesn't make it against the law, there are people who do work travel side and that cant be disputted. your point is pointless you all are mad because people have a choice of which side of the business to work"
ReplyDelete1. I never said it was against the law. I may think that it is just this side of legal, but technically, no, it's not illegal.
2. I have never said that there are not people who can sell travel in YTB (or any other MLM), and do it well. But the numbers of those people are miniscule.
3. Get over the mad thing. That's a rediculous statement. And as noted, we know already that there are 2 business "opportunities". Don't be disingenuous and state that one can do one or the other or both. Any fool knows that the money in YTB is working the REP side, which is FREE. So anyone joining to be an RTA is stupid if they don't do the REP side also (since it's FREE).
4. Let's get back to the subject at hand - who the h*ll is "Dr Seligman" and who's he scamming?
The reason people don't do it free is because you will just get the marketing side, you won't get a travel site. AGAIN people have choices.
ReplyDeleteIf people are working the marketing side, they get no perks no tax advantages of a home base business either. I have no idea who this Dr. is...if I knew I would comment. So who said anything about perks? You MUST do so much in sales and take a test to even earn CLIA so what the hell are you talking about?
ReplyDeletelol - I hear ya john.
ReplyDeleteI just can't stand for inaccuracies.
I mean either the guy is what he is - or he ain't (as we rednecks say).
I just don't want good honest rta's falling for deceptive acts (if any) - if Seligman has what he has - it should be easy to prove.
Tom
RED NECKS ARE RIGHT...
ReplyDeleteIf you guys would have taken half the energy you applied here to building a business such as YTB, well it's hard to tell where you'd be today. End of story.
ReplyDelete