Welcome to the YTB Travel Compass, a newsletter dedicated solely to TRAVEL and to helping you, the RTA, grow your YTB travel business. We will provide you with information that is vital to the growth of your travel business, from Booking Engine updates to Vendor spotlights to Travel Training Schedules. Watch upcoming issues for RTA Spotlights, Guest Columnists, Seminars at Sea, and so much more! At YTB, travel IS our business!And then I see that there is last week's press release. They have hired a Chief Marketing Officer. Well, one would think that a company faced with the issues they are faced with might hire someone in marketing that might have some background in..oh I don't know, maybe TRAVEL? Am I out of line in my thinking that the #26 largest travel company according to Travel Weekly might have an executive that have a background in travel? Maybe a Board member? Not a one of them!
Here is the background on the new Chief Marketing Officer, James M. Tackett:
- Avon (MLM)
- Nikken (MLM)
- Herbalife (MLM)
- Pre-Paid Legal (MLM)
- Shaklee (MLM)
and a real shocker....
- Primerica (MLM)
But then again, it does not specifically say that this MLM Guru was hired to market travel. Maybe he is going to work on the next venture for Tomer & Son!
John,
ReplyDeleteJazzed up travel compasss??? You are being dishonest again. Either you really don't pay attention or you are tying to get your readers to think that that banner is a recent "reactionary" change.
That banner at the top as you properly quoted has been a fixture to the travel compass weekly since September 2007!!!! Here is the link to September 7, 2007
http://www.yourtravelbiz.com/rta/TRAVEL_COMPASS/travel_compass_09-07-07.htm
You can change the date for every 7 days to see for yourself.
Also, companies that hire someone to enhance the overall marketing of their company hire people with a marketing background. You are confusing the need to properly market a company and the marketing or REP side of the individual business.
Josh,
ReplyDeleteYes a marketing background is important, but the reason that YTB is having the problems they are currently experiencing is because not one executive or board member has any travel industry experience. Nor do they seem to have one shred of respect for anyone in the travel industry.
I will second the comment above. Did you listen to the TW VLS yesterday where Kim spoke?
ReplyDeleteAnyone can change a web page...look at Travel Mom's blog for examples of that. I did not look at your particular issue and I do see that the banners are now similar, but I receive these every week and the last one I received really stood out with more emphasis.
The travel compass has not changed. I have them saved in my email box. I am sure your accusation is appreciated though. Just address the point, that you tried to get away with dishonesty again. It's ok. we all know you do it.
ReplyDeleteTravel mom's blog is a poor comparison, IMO, as her conduct is totally unacceptable. She isn't an RTA she has no vested interest in success and frankly her comments and presentation are disturbing, IMO, and I made a point to thtta yesterday.
I didn't get a chance to listen to KIM yesterday but read yours and other's comments at SCAM.com as well as speaking to members on my team. So, I have a good grasp of what was discussed.
With respect to the marketing position, I am going to respectfully disagree with you and Kate on this. A marketing person was and is often hired to improve how the company is MARKETED. Most marketing people that work for companies have a background in marketing and not the discipline of what they are selling. And frankly, other board memebers' experiences are irrelevant to the needs and experience of a marketing director.
From what I heard yesterday on TW Kim basically thumbed his nose at all of us.
ReplyDeleteAs to the marketing they don't need a marketing person. They need someone who knows the travel industry, isn't arrogant and will comply with SOT laws. That is NOT going to happen with current management. The only way I see YTB being remotely viable and respected is a complete change at the top.
Josh. Do you feel it is reasonable that the employees and management of a bank have banking experience?
ReplyDeleteDo you feel it is reasonable that the employees and management of a fire department have fire department experience?
Do you feel it is reasonable that the employees and management of a hospital have medical experience?
Do you feel it is reasonable that the employees and management of a Taco Bell have food service experience?
Do you feel it is reasonable that the employees and management of a auto mechanic have automotive experience?
Do you feel it is reasonable that the employees and management of a psychiatry practice have psychiatry experience?
I do not feel that that the person who makes marketing videos encouraging potential customers to come to the bank have banking experience. In fact that same guy could do the job for all the disciplines you listed. My sister is a marketing director for a hospital(funny you should mention the hosptial). her background is in marketing and television reporting. But, Doctors can't market so they hire marketers.
ReplyDeleteOK Josh--MY point is, has been and will likely continue to be.....YTB has no one in management (and probably employees) that has ANY travel experience! Absent that, the hiring of a marketing exec that had travel experience might speak well for them, but no--they hire another pyramid marketing "expert".
ReplyDeleteWell your "point" is taken and better said in your more recent comment. With that said, it is my opinion that i disagree and it is irrelevant.
ReplyDeleteIn addition you do know I am sure that there are many employees at the home office with travel experience.
I have heard the rumor that some of the call center people have experience. But from the few times I have had interaction with them (notably during your Carnival Sale) I beg to differ when I was told that some of their ships sail from (and without looking at my notes I am not sure exactly what city) Phoenix. Plus they have laid off a good number of people and I suspect if it was from a cost standpoint, the ones with travel experience are more costly.
ReplyDeleteI am sure that the call center people are getting more experience as they remain there though.
Are you saying that your brain surgeon is ok to not have any medical experience as long as there is a physician's assistant in the office?
ReplyDeleteI don't know much about mass marketing, but it seems that the person in charge of marketing would need to have some sort of basic knowledge of the product or service of the company they are working with, beyond general usage of said produce. Such as, the head of marketing for an airline would need to have more knowledge of how an airline works beyond that of just being a passenger on said airline.
ReplyDeleteAgreed Ains.
ReplyDeleteLike yesterday, when the YTB rep/rta was in the travel weekly show lounge proclaiming that YTB would be the #1, then to have a rep from Cruise line come in room to discuss the future of NCF's. The RTA asked... What is a NCF? Yeah alot of knowledge of the industry floating around in that head.
Great representation you all have out there.
Josh said...That banner at the top as you properly quoted has been a fixture to the travel compass weekly since September 2007!!!! Here is the link to September 7, 2007
ReplyDeletehttp://www.yourtravelbiz.com/rta/TRAVEL_COMPASS/travel_compass_09-07-07.htm
You can change the date for every 7 days to see for yourself.
This statement seems to be a bit disingenuous. I did a bit of research, and yes, the 9/20 issue of the Travel Compass does have the "corrected" banner, but the following week does not (http://www.yourtravelbiz.com/rta/TRAVEL_COMPASS/travel_compass_09-14-07.htm). Then, when trying to check the next week, as suggested by Josh, you will find that you will get the response "Page Not Found". So you cannot just "change the date for every 7 days". As a matter of fact, the next one that I WAS able to find, and not get "Page Not Found" was on 11/20/07. The banner in question was NOT in place. In fact, it did not show up again until the issue of 1/3/08, and does seem to have remained there since.
I do have a question for Josh, though. If the Travel Compass is, and I quote "a newsletter dedicated solely to TRAVEL and to helping you, the RTA, grow your YTB travel business", why was the very top story on the 2/7/08 issue all about ytb flowers and Valentines Day? That has nothing to do with TRAVEL.
Oops, in the above, I meant to state that the banner appeared in the 9/7/07 issue of the Compass, not 9/20. My mind was working faster than my fingers could type.
ReplyDeleteLisa, I do remember Heather Kirkendall asking that question yesterday. It was actually quite embarassing, actually.
"From what I heard yesterday on TW Kim basically thumbed his nose at all of us."
ReplyDeleteWhy do you feel he "thumbed" his nose at you AT? Was it because he said he was not dropping the marketing model?
"Do you feel it is reasonable that the employees and management of a fire department have fire department experience?"
ReplyDeleteSince you mentioned fire department John on this one John I will say "no" in some instances. My department hired a training chief that had no fire experience. He did however have a PHD in education and did an fine job of facilitating the training. He knew how to surround himself with the people that did know about the training needs.
Whether or not Tackett has a "travel" background I am sure he knows how to surround himself with the information and people needed to produce quality travel marketing material. He has already demonstrated that.
Firemedic--please read the thread. It was not specifically about Trackett. It was about ALL management in YTB.
ReplyDeleteAre you a medic or a firefighter primarily? Are you comfortable with a pump operator whose only familiarity with the fire service is reading Firehouse and buying a blue light from Gall's?
What about the guy who fills your airpack? You comfortable with him because he used to fill tires at a filling station?
What about your backup man if you are on the tip? You cool if he has no fire service training or background?
What about the car crash victim? You think he is cool with it when the crew that is wielding the Hurst or Holmatro tool has watched Emergency for years and that qualifies them for using the "jaws of life"?
Capiche?
I read the thread John. Your complaints of the senior management not having the "travel" experience as you would like has been duly noted for quite some time.
ReplyDeleteMy job is that of a firefighter and paramedic. I do both on a pretty much equal basis. All of the examples you quoted were that of the frontline fire personnel like myself. All of he examples you are using like filling airpacks, using Halmatro, pump operator, ....those are all jobs in which many departments hire, then teach them to do. I personally worked for a department in which the only qualifications to apply were 18 y.o. and a drivers license.
Your example was that of our chief marketing officer not having "travel" experience and I think it was adequately proven that the "travel" experience did not qualify nor disqualify him from that position.
Have you been a firefighter? You seem to know a little about it.
YTB cannot afford to hire people that know about the travel business.
ReplyDeleteWell now that you asked firemedic I will tell you what I meant by "thumbed his nose at the travel industry." Kim pretty much said he was going to unleash more "greenies" as he called it on the travel business and is not going to change the business model. And, he was arrogant about it too.
ReplyDeleteIMHO, the guy is Jethro Bodine reincarnated and needs to take a public speaking course.
Firemedic..what if the Chief running a scene has no fire service experience? What if he did not see the signs of a backdraft or an imminent roof collapse and ordered you either in or on the roof? What if he placed a ladder truck incorrectly and committed it preventing the tanker you needed for additional water to get to the scene? All because he was watching Roy and Johnny running Squad 51?
ReplyDeleteYou still cool with that?
Fire, you comment that you worked for a department where the only qualification needed was to be 18 and have a drivers license. That may have been the base requirement, sure, but I'm quite sure that before allowing that 18 year old with a drivers license out to actually fight a fire, they received some sort of training. Hell, anyone can be a volunteer firefighter, but before they are allowed to actually man a hose they get some sort of training on the equipment. All that training is MANDATORY before being "unleashed" onto the public. Therein lies the problem with ytb. No travel training is MANDATORY before the "greenies" are unleashed on the public. They "pays da money, dey gets ta be a trabel agant".
ReplyDeleteYou are right Ainsworth. They did have to have some training first. And so do people that join YTB now. They have to have a minimum of the first class before they can book directly with vendors or book groups. Those that don't, only direct people to the websites. What qualifications does one need to do that other than the ability to give them the web address?
ReplyDeleteJohn, I hear your argument and it is valid however it is not as black and white as you want readers to believe. The chiefs in the larger departments are pencil pusher these days. They work with budgets and such. They don't make it to the scenes like they used to. Some do but most don't. They have division chiefs, batallion chiefs, captains, etc. that do the hands on type things. I know of one division chief that has NO fire experience whatsoever yet they are in charge of all fire personnel. Point is, you don't have to know everything about fire to be a chief. You just need to surround yourself with someone who does. Now that's not to say that a Chief didn't move up through the ranks and knows a lot. Point being, it's not rocket science and it's not so black and white.
And that has been the problem with ytb for far too long. It is only NOW that they are making some sort of training mandatory. They also need to make sure that those that are only going to be pointing are not calling themselves travel agents, or anything remotly close to it.
ReplyDeleteAn executive with any company should and needs to have a basic understanding of the product that the company is dealing with. I would bet that those administrative chiefs in the fire department know a bit more about fire fighting than you're giving them credit for.
The so called First Class Training I saw (FOC) was hardly first class by any professional agents standards. But, that is SO YTB.
ReplyDelete"Point is, you don't have to know everything about fire to be a chief. You just need to surround yourself with someone who does."
ReplyDeleteI think you just made our point, FM. There's nobody surrounding anybody in YTB with "someone who does."
Hey Bruce, How long have you lived in Arizona?
ReplyDelete"An executive with any company should and needs to have a basic understanding of the product that the company is dealing with."
ReplyDeleteKim has been the executive for the travel business for over 8 years now. People get PHD's in less than that (Not that he would claim to be a Phd.)
"I think you just made our point, FM. There's nobody surrounding anybody in YTB with "someone who does."
Ann, where have you been? Davidoff, Mancini. Nobody? It doesn't matter who it it is though with those on this site. They could be the pope of travel and if he saw value in YTB, you would try to discredit him.
I've been around a long time, FM. The Davidoffs and Mancini. It is to YTB's credit that they have had people from the industry in to do training classes. But that's all moot when the training is not required. The company culture is MLM, masquerading as travel. Until the people who RUN the company are serious about travel and bring in management with backgrounds in travel, they will never be "legitimate" in the eyes of the industry.
ReplyDeleteBTW, I don't think Bruce lives in AZ.
Fire, so what if Kim has been the executive for the travel business for over 8 years now? He has no training in travel, and his background is not in travel. He made it quite the point in yesterdays "Meet the Press" call with Arnie Weissman that his background is in insurance mlm. Neither is coach's or scott's. None of the people who hold executive positions in the company have any travel experience. All their experience is in marketing and mlm. No one on the board of directors of the company has any experience in travel. What is your point? You look at other companies, and at least 1 person in an executive position has some sort of experience in that particular realm.
ReplyDeleteOnto something else now....has anyone seen Josh since this morning? He made a statement and I was able to rebutt him, and also asked him a specific question, and was wondering if he was going to respond.
"Fire, so what if Kim has been the executive for the travel business for over 8 years now? He has no training in travel, and his background is not in travel. He made it quite the point in yesterdays "Meet the Press" call with Arnie Weissman that his background is in insurance mlm."
ReplyDeleteThe point Ainsworth is that he may not have come into the industry with a background but to say now, after 8 years, that he still doesn't have any experience is just not true.
"Until the people who RUN the company are serious about travel and bring in management with backgrounds in travel, they will never be "legitimate" in the eyes of the industry."
No, Ann, they just may not be "legitimate" in YOUR eyes but unfortunately your opinion probably won't stop them from moving forward. Again, no different from the insurance agents back in the 80's that said the same thing about A.L. Williams.
So Bruce is not bruceinvt from Scam? John's inside guy?
Not just MY eyes, FM. And from what I understand, ALWilliams has about the same reputation in the insurance industry as YTB does in the travel industry.
ReplyDeleteI must say, you guys really are paranoid about John, aren't you? I'm sure Bruce will be flattered.
"Not just MY eyes, FM. And from what I understand, ALWilliams has about the same reputation in the insurance industry as YTB does in the travel industry"
ReplyDeleteLOL! And A.L. Williams (now Primerica) has been number 1 for 23 out of the past 25 years! I can live with that.
FM..yes Kim has been Pres for 8 years but it appears that only NOW is YTB beginning to become serious about selling travel. He has been nothing more than a MLM recruiter for most of the 8 years. The focus of YTB is certainly NOT on travel despite what an occasional weekly newsletter might say.
ReplyDeleteJohn I thoroughly disagree. I have been around Kim and when he speaks he speaks for the travel side of YTB. He did not just now focus on travel.
ReplyDeleteFire, if you're so "close" to all of those in Wood River, then why is it that you can't set up a simple meeting for Monday in New Orleans between me and the old fart? I've given you ample time to do it. Maybe you really aren't as close to them as you say you are, and all your excuses are nothing more than a chicken exit to try and cover your tracks.
ReplyDeleteJosh is another one. Isn't it interesting how he post something, and when it is debunked, he disappears?
ReplyDelete