NOTE: The title has been changed, and this morning I received a response from Jim Smith, CTIE, Director of Marketing for CLIA who offered the following:Contrary to what was posted on your blog and for the record - when it comes to CLIA certification, membership and all related programs - the rules are the rules for everyone. There are no exceptions.I thank CLIA for clearing that up, but now I direct my attention to YTB and the misinformation they presented in their Travel Compass.Jim Smith, CTIE
Being in Washington, DC, you get used to politicians sliding in a little pork for their constituents. I was not expecting it from CLIA however.
According to the YTB Travel Compass (10/23/08) where they overview the FCT training program they slipped and showed a little pork. Apparently, for people that want to get a CLIA card without bothering with all of the pesky requirements like selling cruises, they can do it through YTB for $149--unless you are in California.
The industry praised CLIA on upping their requirments, but now I wonder what the reaction will be when they see this? I mean, it may almost be less expensive to join YTB and pay the $149 to watch the FCT Video and get your credentials than to bother with selling cabins.
And while I felt that the FCT was a small step in the right direction for YTB, apparently it was merely some more smoke and mirrors to grant the perks that they use to sell the program. Now, when I join YTB for $449.90, I get an Affiliate Card and 60%. But by paying then an additional $149, I can get the RTA card that they claim is so valuable, can call myself a Referring Travel Agent, and not have ANY production requirements. As an added bonus, they will throw in a CLIA Card.
I have a message into Terry Dale as this is being posted to verify if this is indeed true, or merely another round of misinformation coming from YTB!
WHAT ARE THE FIRST CLASS BENEFITS I WILL RECEIVE?and
There are many travel business advantages given to you upon completion of FCT. They include a new commission structure for the RTA (RTAs receive 70% of the travel commissions paid to YTB Travel Network), direct relationships with vendors, group booking advantages, access to enhanced features in the Travel Portal, CLIA application approval (except in California where production requirements must be met) and more.
REFERRING TRAVEL AGENT (RTA): A Referring Travel Agent is an Affiliate who has enrolled, paid for, and completed a First Class Training. An RTA who has accomplished this will receive 70% of the travel commissions paid to YTBTN for travel booked and completed by the RTA's customers and may apply for the "RTA" credential (no production requirements are necessary to reach the RTA designation).
Because CLIA continues to support these mlms that have little or no training requirements, I have dropped my CLIA memberships. I know of several other agencies as well. A CLIA membership is completely meaningless. There are too many companies like YTB, and the super sleazy Cruise To Cash, that wouldn't be able to continue to ruin the integrity of our industry without CLIA.
ReplyDeleteCLIA has a great opportunity to make a real difference in our industry, but choses not to.
John, not sure what time you received your response from CLIA and made the correction to the blog, but Doug is at it again on his blog, posting misinformation. He grabbed what you originally posted and ran with it. How much you want to bet that he won't acknowledge that you made a correction, but continue to harp on the fact that there was an initial error in wording? His fascination with this blog blows my mind.
ReplyDeleteAs for CLIA....I have never belonged to them, and never will. I don't sell cruises, as I personally don't believe that they are the end all, be all vacation that CLIA and the cruise lines make them out to be. The commissions they pay are not all that great as compared to an all inclusive, and there are so many thing on a cruise that are not included that are with a land based vacation at an AI.
The wording from YTB is misleading (intentionally?) and their arrangement with CLIA has been suspect by many for a long time. I have attempted to contact CLIA for pieces here many times and never received a response until this morning.
ReplyDeleteJim was clear that the requirements are the same for everyone, but now the focus switches back to YTB for their misleading Travel Compass.
And in a separate issue, while they said requiring production would help to "legitimize" the company, they are now changing direction and saying that paying them an additional $149 will be ok in place of selling any travel.
Janice -What about Doug's blog is "misinformation"?
ReplyDelete"How much you want to bet that he won't acknowledge that you made a correction, but continue to harp on the fact that there was an initial error in wording?"
How much do you want to bet that John and the posse would take every opportunity "harp" on ANY error in wording that YTB or anyone else you disagree with?
If you can't figure it out on your own, firemedic, then your more of a lost cause than I thought.
ReplyDeleteNo, seriously Janice, you said there was "misinformation" then prove what was "misinformation"! Looks like you won't but instead put it on me as being a "lost cause". Instead of addressing the question you attack the person, a typical tactic on this blog.
ReplyDeleteFM--it is all about words....
ReplyDeleteHere is Doug's post as it relates to this posting:
I found it interesting that a post was made yesterday afternoon that YTB is now paying off CLIA. There hasn’t been a single comment concerning this as of the time of this writing. We’re just going to let Terry educate this “industry veteran” about how this Association works, or spank him for having the reading comprehension and mentality of a 5 year old. Personally, if he doesn’t understand how CLIA’s two year ACC Accreditation actually works when your “application” is submitted he should be kicked out of the industry, or simply put out of his misery.
Misinformation---
Where does it say in this post that YTB paid off CLIA?
He talks about the process of submitting an application to CLIA. However the YTB information presented did not say "YTB will submit your application for approval." It said very clearly that if you pay $149 for FCT that one of the benefits is "CLIA APPLICATION APPROVAL"--not submission. So for $149, YTB is now guaranteeing that perk!
I agree that the statments made by YTB re CLIA are misleading. But, that's the idea. A recruiter must use whatever possible to build a downline and bold fact and truth are not usually highlighted. I have 100 people ready to listen to my speil...do I say '85% of you will not make a dime, and will actually lose your money.' No. I talk about the big money earners and how you can be one too even if you've never sold anythng in your life. I say 'follow my plan and you WILL succeed'. 'You can't play unless you pay'. I ignore the reality and play on the emotion. It's the same everytime. Look at how some are saying the CA AG suit is a GOOD thing. Yeah.
ReplyDeleteAnd quite typical of you, firemedic, when something hits too close to home for you to cry. Wah, wah, I'm a victim! Boo hoo. Truth hurts, doesn't it?
ReplyDeleteWhy do I have to PROVE anything to you? You have been asked in the past to prove things, to respond to things, and you refuse. But, I won't play your little games, even though I don't have time to do a cut and paste of almost an entire blog, I suggest you go and read paragraphs 2-6. Those paragraphs have misinformation in them, from the fact that no one over here is "screaming" about anything to stuff that you can come back over here and research for yourself.
Maybe YTB means if you pay 149.00 then YTB will approve your CLIA application. If you don't pay, then no matter if you have sold 1000 cruises, YTB will NOT allow your application to be approved?
ReplyDeleteI think there may be more than meets the eye!
ReplyDelete"And quite typical of you, firemedic, when something hits too close to home for you to cry. Wah, wah, I'm a victim! Boo hoo. Truth hurts, doesn't it?
ReplyDeleteWhy do I have to PROVE anything to you? You have been asked in the past to prove things, to respond to things, and you refuse. But, I won't play your little games, even though I don't have time to do a cut and paste of almost an entire blog, I suggest you go and read paragraphs 2-6. Those paragraphs have misinformation in them, from the fact that no one over here is "screaming" about anything to stuff that you can come back over here and research for yourself."
I rest my case Janice. Again, you attack the person instead of the question.
Isn't it funny that even in CLIA's response to your blog John that they said "Contrary to what was posted on your blog and for the record"? Why would they use that wording if there wasn't "misinformation" that you were posting?
ReplyDeleteFiremedic--the words were YTB's not mine. So at this point CLIA is refuting what YTB has said!
ReplyDeleteJohn perhaps the words were directed at what you wrote about CLIA selling out. Perhaps they are also reemphasizing that the rules are the same for everybody and CLIA was not doing any special favors for YTB like you have insinuated in the past.
ReplyDeleteOr perhaps not. Call them and ask. Considering this post is about YTB's words and misinformation--I suspect that CLIA objected to YTB's words.
ReplyDeleteFireman - say I'm a YTB RTA. I have sold 1000 cruises. I chose NOT to pay YTB 149.00 but to bypass them and get the CLIA number on my own.
ReplyDeleteIs that okay?
I suspect that they were responding were responding you your words insinuating they were "sell-outs". Perhaps we are both wrong. Perhaps we are both right?
ReplyDelete"Fireman - say I'm a YTB RTA. I have sold 1000 cruises. I chose NOT to pay YTB 149.00 but to bypass them and get the CLIA number on my own.
ReplyDeleteIs that okay?"
As far as I know they cannot bypass YTB to get the CLIA membership if they booked those cruises using YTB as the host. CLIA's rules say that you have to be affiliated with a CLIA approved agency to apply.
Anyone can join CLIA as an agency for $399 and get their own agency number. All you would need then is a business registration/license, business bank account and you can register with the travel suppliers and get 100% commission - WITHOUT YTB.
ReplyDeleteBut then you wouldn't have a Power Team or a downline, would you?
Yes Joe. The money is in recruiting, not selling cruises, so back to square one. What did we figure? Out of 112,000 RTAs only 2%-4% are making ANY money selling travel?
ReplyDelete"Anyone can join CLIA as an agency for $399 and get their own agency number. All you would need then is a business registration/license, business bank account and you can register with the travel suppliers and get 100% commission - WITHOUT YTB."
ReplyDeleteSo what I hear you saying Joe, is that ANYONE can be in the travel business if they do all the above? And if they do all of that, what would keep them from calling themselves a "travel agent" even though they may not have sold ANY travel after doing all that? But if one choses to use YTB as the host since YTB already has all the supplier relationships they are wrong.
"But then you wouldn't have a Power Team or a downline, would you?"
You don't have a Power Team or a downline as an RTA there Joe. Only as a Rep and you don't have to be an RTA to be a Rep.
Eddie - even if your numbers were right why would anyone make money selling travel if they don't sell travel? If you don't produce, you don't get paid. What's so unfair about that?
Eddie - You talked about people that talk about successes rather than the failure rates. We have a local 24-hour fitness and I have a friend that is a trainer. He says that 85% of the people that sign up at the beginning of the year only show up a few times before quitting. Was it the Gyms fault for not talking about that "failure" rate? Why do they only talk about the benefits of hard work and not quitting? Misleading?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FclI8hGQgb4
Sorry, that post was from UrTravelChick......couldn't get it to verify
ReplyDeleteHow much money does your friend make for getting his friends and family to sign up for a membership?
ReplyDeleteHey folks!! Still at it?
ReplyDeleteWhy do you all always pick words apart??
I'll tell you what has been TOLD and STATED: Once the First Class training has been successfully taken and passed, you will have the opportunity to APPLY for CLIA, BASED on their application requirements. Which means, whatever criteria there are for John or whoever, there are for this company and their RTAs.
Sometimes we can read too much into words - or we make them read as we want them to read. Sometimes, we just make mistakes in how things are worded. I know the requirements for CLIA as TOLD to us.
Sorry anon, It's very misleading as YTB stated it, and I think there is a reason behind that.
ReplyDeleteOK, and you're perfectly free to think what you think. I DO know what they have told us AND what to tell anyone who is looking at the company. So, everyone knows the truth. Except here....lol
ReplyDeleteOne would think that since ytb is under the microscope it is, it would chose it's words carefully.
ReplyDeleteFiremedic, boo hoo. Continue to cry and play the victim card. You're worse than people that play the race card when things don't go your way. You alone make yourself look the fool, no one else, and you just hate it when someone points it out to you. However, unlike you, I don't have the time to play your games.
ReplyDeleteSo, now that the misinformation in Dougs blog has been pointed out to you, I see that you have had no more to say on that subject. Why is it that when you are proven wrong, you never say so, but always expect everyone else to do the mea culpa bit? Ya know, for being a supposed "fire/medic" you sure do seem to have a lot of time to devote to posting on internet blogs. Are you sure that you aren't one of those people that live in their mother's basements?
"So, everyone knows the truth. Except here....lol"
ReplyDeleteYes travel chick everyone here KNOWS the truth except you and the rest of you YTB cohorts. You are wearing blinders as far as YTB is concerned. Do a search on Tomer and the other scams he was involved in. The truth is out there and you unfortunately have drank the Kool Aid and will believe anything YTB says.
"How much money does your friend make for getting his friends and family to sign up for a membership?"
ReplyDeleteI don't know Eddie but that is sales dude. No one in sales focuses on the negative and makes a living. Is my friend wrong for making money on the enrollment? He is in great shape because he CHOSE to use the gym, no one forced him to. He knows it works if one chooses to use it. Why would he not talk about the successes as opposed to the failures?
"Firemedic, boo hoo. Continue to cry and play the victim card. You're worse than people that play the race card when things don't go your way. You alone make yourself look the fool, no one else, and you just hate it when someone points it out to you. However, unlike you, I don't have the time to play your games."
ReplyDeleteJanice, again I make my point. Attack the person instead of the issue. And I still did not see where I was proven wrong. John changed his blog from insinuating that CLIA was doing YTB a special favor and that perahps YTB paid for that favor. Doug called him on it and even CLIA sat the record straight. So keep on attacking me about it there Janny because I don't care. I am not claiming to be this "victim" you keep inciting but again, it's you attacking the person instead of the issue.
"for being a supposed "fire/medic" you sure do seem to have a lot of time to devote to posting on internet blogs. Are you sure that you aren't one of those people that live in their mother's basements?"
Yes I am sure Janny. It's called 24 hour shifts with several days off in between.
If YTB wants everyone to know the truth than they should state it clearly in the Travel Compass. The written word is taken more factually then 'what this really means is...'
ReplyDeleteFireman - your friend knows well that 85% will not get in shape, but it's not his problem cause he makes money on them signing up, not getting fit. Reality is never 'focusing' on the negative to make a sale. Just like when a customer wants a Carib cruise in November - isn't it your duty to mention the possibility of a hurricane? Or better to say nothing and make the sale? Heck since you can't control the weather it's not your problem right?
Firemedic---this post was not changed in ANY way other than as noted above so please show me the screen shot where it was changed.
ReplyDeleteI never said YTB paid off CLIA. It was never insinuated and that is something contrived by Doug and you between sips of KoolAid.
The original title was "Did CLIA Sell Out?" If all of a sudden RCCL decides to do busiess wiht YTB again (VERY long shot), likely my headline will be "RCCL Sells Out".
So do not go accusing me of changing the blog because unlike many of the folks in YTB including Doug--I am honest and will admit when I make a mistake and make corrections when necessary.
Plain and simple, CLIA had an opportunity to return a phone call and an email yesterday afternoon. They chose not to so I posted the entry. They sent me an email this morning and I immediately made the correction.
I don't buy that firemedic is a fireman either. I think he is full of crap. As to your comment about attack the person you have done your fair share of that here firemedic. We all think you are a dumb ass. Nothing you say or do will change that. And, not only do we think you are a dumb ass but I have heard non travel people who read this say the same thing.
ReplyDeleteFiremedic, all I can say is, whatever. I will stand by the old cliche of "if the shoe fits". Take it how you will. I'm done with your games.
ReplyDeleteNow, what about the rest? Why are you avoiding the rest? I pointed out to you where in the other blog the misinformation was. Why do you have no response to that?
Unlike the author of that other blog, at least John WILL make corrections to his, if and when it an error is pointed out to him. Although, I see that Doug has added an entry to his blog, and expounded on it. He said something that was blatently false, and when called on it, instead of being a man about it and saying "oops, I made a mistake, I apologize", he has to go off on this whole long thing about how it wasn't his fault. If you want to talk about things that are "quite typical", that is an example of what is quite typical of people within ytb. And you want to write a blog that speaks of integrity and character.
I agree with what Ainsworth wrote above. You would think that with the microscope that both YTB and CLIA are under, they would word things so that there could be absolutly, positively no question about their meaning.
You questioned about anyone being able to get a CLIA number. Yes, anyone can, if they pay their money. And, no, it doesn't make them a travel agent, any more than buying a website from ytb makes you a travel agent. CLIA and ytb have only made changes to their programs AFTER they were exposed. If they were serious, these things would have been in place to begin with, and no changes would have been had to have been made. Why has it taken so long for both organizations to have any type of educational and sales requirement standard? Because otherwise, they wouldn't have had people just pumping in the money, that's why.
"You questioned about anyone being able to get a CLIA number. Yes, anyone can, if they pay their money. And, no, it doesn't make them a travel agent, any more than buying a website from ytb makes you a travel agent. CLIA and ytb have only made changes to their programs AFTER they were exposed. If they were serious, these things would have been in place to begin with, and no changes would have been had to have been made. Why has it taken so long for both organizations to have any type of educational and sales requirement standard? Because otherwise, they wouldn't have had people just pumping in the money, that's why."
ReplyDeleteYou said they would not be a "travel agent" but who would be policing them to tell them they weren't? Is there a travel agent license they have to have?
Oh, and so now it's YTB ANNNNND CLIA? And of course Davidoff, and Mancini. If someone disagrees with your views on how travel should and can be sold, then they are wrong and you will seek to discredit them. There is not common ground unless it's on your ground. And you keep claiming that I play the "victim".
"I don't buy that firemedic is a fireman either. I think he is full of crap. As to your comment about attack the person you have done your fair share of that here firemedic. We all think you are a dumb ass. Nothing you say or do will change that. And, not only do we think you are a dumb ass but I have heard non travel people who read this say the same thing."
ReplyDeleteHere's Miss Kitty getting her daily dose of "Insult someone else so I can feel better about myself".
You do play the victim. As much as you attack other people, you never see anyone else complaining about it, BUT YOU. Moving on....
ReplyDeleteOur complaints have always included CLIA, but this blog is about MLM's. CLIA is not an MLM. The discussions about CLIA and what changes are needed there take place in other forums, forums that you aren't a part of, so no, it isn't "oh, and so now it's ytb ANNNNND CLIA". CLIA has ALWAYS been part of it. And yes, Mancini and the Davidoff's are included, because they sold out. You see, firemedic, it's all about the money with them. Mancini and the Davidoff's saw a chance of getting in on the ytb "gravytrain", and to hell with the industry that supported them all these years. Same with CLIA. Well, it's time for that gravytrain to be derailed.
I will also ask again about the misinformation on Doug's blog. Why do you keep avoiding addressing that?
"Yes travel chick everyone here KNOWS the truth except you and the rest of you YTB cohorts. You are wearing blinders as far as YTB is concerned. Do a search on Tomer and the other scams he was involved in. The truth is out there and you unfortunately have drank the Kool Aid and will believe anything YTB says."
ReplyDeleteThank you very much AT. I see that you know me very well. I don't even drink Kool-Aid. However, you should know not to take everything you read as factual information. I've spent time with them. Have you? It might be well worth your time. You can at least ask them all about those pesky little questions you want us to answer. Get it straight from the horses' mouths.
"And yes, Mancini and the Davidoff's are included, because they sold out. You see, firemedic, it's all about the money with them. Mancini and the Davidoff's saw a chance of getting in on the ytb "gravytrain", and to hell with the industry that supported them all these years. Same with CLIA. Well, it's time for that gravytrain to be derailed."
ReplyDeleteWOW....no one can make any independent decisions regarding this company. It's all about the money. Make sure you let them know that. I don't know about Marc Mancini but the Davidoffs don't even look like they play political games like that.
utravelchick, there are several of us that have done the "been there, done that" thing. We still see ytb for what it is.
ReplyDelete"However, you should know not to take everything you read as factual information."
So, all the information that is out there, floating around on the web, in print and on video about what a wonderful company ytb is, and all the "travel like an insider" stuff, especially the come ons about all the "perks" that one can receive if they sign up with ytb, we're just supposed to take with a grain of salt? Lady, please, if you aren't a "kool-aid" drinker, then neither were the people in Jonestown, Guyana.
Too many typo's for my taste.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
"And yes, Mancini and the Davidoff's are included, because they sold out. You see, firemedic, it's all about the money with them. Mancini and the Davidoff's saw a chance of getting in on the ytb "gravytrain", and to hell with the industry that supported them all these years. Same with CLIA. Well, it's time for that gravytrain to be derailed."
WOW....no one can make any independent decisions regarding this company. It's all about the money. Make sure you let them know that. I don't know about Marc Mancini but the Davidoffs don't even look like they play political games like that.
Just shows how much you truly DON'T know. Do some research.
"So, all the information that is out there, floating around on the web, in print and on video about what a wonderful company ytb is, and all the "travel like an insider" stuff, especially the come ons about all the "perks" that one can receive if they sign up with ytb, we're just supposed to take with a grain of salt? Lady, please, if you aren't a "kool-aid" drinker, then neither were the people in Jonestown, Guyana."
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely correct. Because much of what you see "floating around on the web" is done by individuals, NOT the company. Unfortunately, its very difficult to control individuals and their words, be it spoken or written. That's why I'm glad the company has placed in the policies and procedures (revised) that the company is not responsible for what an individual says in writing and in meetings (paraphrased).
Hate to disappoint you firemedic but I am not Miss Kitty. Let's ask Traverus how they feel about you bashing them on your blog shall we?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDelete"So, all the information that is out there, floating around on the web, in print and on video about what a wonderful company ytb is, and all the "travel like an insider" stuff, especially the come ons about all the "perks" that one can receive if they sign up with ytb, we're just supposed to take with a grain of salt? Lady, please, if you aren't a "kool-aid" drinker, then neither were the people in Jonestown, Guyana."
Absolutely correct. Because much of what you see "floating around on the web" is done by individuals, NOT the company. Unfortunately, its very difficult to control individuals and their words, be it spoken or written. That's why I'm glad the company has placed in the policies and procedures (revised) that the company is not responsible for what an individual says in writing and in meetings (paraphrased).
There are PLENTY of company produced videos on the 'net that extoll the virtues of "travel like an insider", so it isn't always "individuals". Just go to You Tube and put ytb in the search box.
Problem is travel chic that YTB doesn't police itself. They promoted the from "Jail to Yale spiel." And, they didn't require a basic background or credit check on anyone. Great way to do business with felons and people with no credit.
ReplyDeleteAs to your comment about Kool Aid you don't get it do you? Read up on Jonestown and Cults. YTB is a cult. And, this is according to one of the leading cult researchers with more education in his little toe than you have in your whole body.
"There are PLENTY of company produced videos on the 'net that extoll the virtues of "travel like an insider", so it isn't always "individuals". Just go to You Tube and put ytb in the search box."
ReplyDeleteMANY of them are NOT company produced, however, what is so misleading or wrong about "travel like insider"?? You all DO travel like an insider, don't you? You don't pay retail rates when discounted rates are available, do you?? All that means is that IF you become a part of this industry AND you become trained in this industry, there are perks, FAMs, Partner Exclusive Trips, etc for you to take IF they are available.
"Problem is travel chic that YTB doesn't police itself. They promoted the from "Jail to Yale spiel." And, they didn't require a basic background or credit check on anyone. Great way to do business with felons and people with no credit."
ReplyDeleteYTB DOES police or at least respond to complaints about policing. Look at Traveling Mom. How many host agencies require a background check?? Not many. I can tell you that from experience. I personally looked into 4 of them and NOT ONE of them requested a background check from me. And again, AN INDIVIDUAL started the "Jail to Yale" spiel, NOT the company.
"As to your comment about Kool Aid you don't get it do you? Read up on Jonestown and Cults. YTB is a cult. And, this is according to one of the leading cult researchers with more education in his little toe than you have in your whole body."
Ahhhhhhh I don't think you want to get into the education discussion with me. You'd be surprised. And I'm not dense...I know about Jonestown.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete"There are PLENTY of company produced videos on the 'net that extoll the virtues of "travel like an insider", so it isn't always "individuals". Just go to You Tube and put ytb in the search box."
MANY of them are NOT company produced, however, what is so misleading or wrong about "travel like insider"?? You all DO travel like an insider, don't you? You don't pay retail rates when discounted rates are available, do you?? All that means is that IF you become a part of this industry AND you become trained in this industry, there are perks, FAMs, Partner Exclusive Trips, etc for you to take IF they are available.
utravelchick, the key word to what you said is TRAINED. Up until extremely recently, ytb had no COMPREHENSIVE training on the travel side, nor did they enforce the voluntary training. They were happy to toodle along, taking peoples money, let them remain UNTRAINED, and go out into the world and declare themselves travel agents. These people, who were selling little if any travel, were taking advantage of any and all perks afforded to us that have devoted our professional lives to this industry. It amazes me that you, and thousands like you, see no problem with this.
YTB has very little policing of its reps and rtas, and only responds when it gets innundated with complaints, take for example Traveling Mom. TM's site was up for a month, a month that ytb was getting complaints, not only from us, but from other ytbers!
I don't know what host agencies you were looking at (they must not have been great, if you settled with a company that only pays you 60% to possibly 70%), but every REPUTABLE host will require some sort of background check. Notice I said REPUTABLE. There are plenty of hosts out there that are as dishonest as ytb. No one will deny that. But considering the fact that you're dealing with sensitive information of other people, it is only logical that you, as the person handling it, not be a felon that might do something underhanded, and that the company make sure that they indemnify themselves against that.
It really doesn't matter who started the "yale or jail" thing. The fact that coach took it as his own, and ran with it, makes it ytb's. He has used it ad naseum to describe the people who are in/can join ytb. If you're comfortable handing over your credit card information to someone who was just released from the state pen, then God bless ya, but I'm not.
Or someone whos been convicted of operating a multi-million dollar gambling ring, or someone whos a known scam artist, or fake doctors, etc etc etc.
ReplyDeleteAnd don't give me the rehabilitated schpiel. Someone who is a known THIEF/CON ARTIST/SCAMMER? You'd outright give your checking info or credit card info to? Doubt it.
I can't remember the last time I took an agent discount. And, the FAMS I have been on have been working business trips to learn about the property. AND, agent rates and fams are linked to your sales. They just don't give you a discount for not selling their property.
ReplyDeleteRegarding background/credit checks, my host required one and the better hosts do plus references. You probably didn't apply to those that required any of that because you have something to hide.
As to your education, I doubt if you have any. Intelligent people don't get mixed up with an MLM.
Do a google search on Lloyd Tomer and the rest of the gang at YTB. Scam artists all of them. Even the locals in Alton don't have nice things to say about them. That is a fact from comments posted on news items about YTB in the local paper. Read the St. Louis Dispatch about YTB. Are they wrong too? And, then there is the bogus gas additive scam Coach tried and was basically shut down by the State AG. The guy is a piece of work and a con a. Any intelligent person can see that.
And, one more thing Chic agent discount are tied into a valid IATAN card. Something you people in YTB do not have because IATAN terminated their relationship with YTB.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with you people is you don't want your RECRUITING CASH COW to dry up. SO, you will do or say anything so that doesn't happen. Deflect, lie, manipulate, misinform. You don't give a shit about the travel industry at all. All you care about is recruiting more suckers into your down line so you all can sit on your butts and make money without putting any effort into learning or anything else.
"utravelchick, the key word to what you said is TRAINED. Up until extremely recently, ytb had no COMPREHENSIVE training on the travel side, nor did they enforce the voluntary training. They were happy to toodle along, taking peoples money, let them remain UNTRAINED, and go out into the world and declare themselves travel agents. These people, who were selling little if any travel, were taking advantage of any and all perks afforded to us that have devoted our professional lives to this industry. It amazes me that you, and thousands like you, see no problem with this."
ReplyDeleteHow can you in all honesty say that I have no problem with that???? This is what I mean about a waste of precious time. I spent about 2 hours total yesterday saying that I agree with those points.
The company SHOULD HAVE made the training mandatory before anyone was allowed to use titles and perform certain functions. That did not happen. Why are we continuing to re-hash already stated information??? The bottom line is now there is mandatory training before certain functions are performed. I'll say again - I don't see the need for those who wish to just direct people to their websites to be comprehensively trained. There is no contact with customers (except to direct), no contact with vendors and no contact with suppliers. They only need to know what's on the site. THAT is provided.
We are on the same page!
"I don't know what host agencies you were looking at (they must not have been great, if you settled with a company that only pays you 60% to possibly 70%), but every REPUTABLE host will require some sort of background check. Notice I said REPUTABLE. There are plenty of hosts out there that are as dishonest as ytb. No one will deny that. But considering the fact that you're dealing with sensitive information of other people, it is only logical that you, as the person handling it, not be a felon that might do something underhanded, and that the company make sure that they indemnify themselves against that."
ReplyDeleteI didn't settle with this company. I checked those other agencies out SINCE I have been with this company - just to see what else is out there. I'm happy here. They may provide a few cents more in commissions, but there's more here. No need for detail.
"We are on the same page!"
ReplyDeleteNOT, in a million years!
You want to sell travel. FINE! Find a legitimate host like Nexion, Travel Partners, Outside Agents, Montrose, Ticket to Travel, AVC to name a few. Show us how serious you are! You can't can you Chick? You know why because you would have to give up your down line.
Don't post on here any more your garbage that you want to learn the travel business and sell travel. Until you find a legit host you have 0 credibility here. Your a joke! And, you sure as hell aren't serious about the travel business.
"If you're comfortable handing over your credit card information to someone who was just released from the state pen, then God bless ya, but I'm not."
ReplyDeleteWow, Janice......MANY of you here COULD be in the same situation. We would not know. How many customers walk into your presence and ask if you've ever been incarcerated?? Hmmmmm
"Regarding background/credit checks, my host required one and the better hosts do plus references. You probably didn't apply to those that required any of that because you have something to hide.
ReplyDeleteAs to your education, I doubt if you have any. Intelligent people don't get mixed up with an MLM."
Once again, dangerous territory. I would never say that "someone else has more education in their little toe than you have in your whole body" OR "I doubt if you have any" because I do not know you nor have I ever met you. And you don't know me. If you'd like me to tell you what education I have, I'll do it.
So, the millions of people who are in an MLM company are uneducated or unintelligent???? Come on. You don't even believe that. You're just saying that because of the company I'm with.
AT, our conversation has ended. I don't appreciate anyone cursing at me. I have said I respect everyone here and I demand respect. I have taken the time to educate myself very well in life. In every discipline I attempt, I also educate myself.
ReplyDeleteWhere did I curse at you? Making things up again to suit you. I said you were not serious about travel and if you were there were a ton of hosts out there if you were. Obviously, the comment about giving up your down line hit too close to home. I was right. You don't care about the travel industry just the recruiting and taking advantage of the so called perks.
ReplyDeleteAnd, if our conversation has ended I won't see you on here again spouting off.
John: you certainly should not allow anyone on this blog to disrespect another person. You and I have emailed on a few occasions. I believe you know how serious I am about travel. We disagree on my choice. But disrespecting others is not cool in any manner and does not speak well for your efforts.
ReplyDeletedenyse
"You don't give a shit about the travel industry at all."
ReplyDeleteAnd I said OUR conversation - AT- that doesn't mean I won't continue to come here to clarify information when necessary. I just don't need to converse with YOU. I dislike misrepresentation as much as anyone else. I don't need to speak with you to come here.
ReplyDeleteSince you are only in YTB for your down line you have ZERO CREDIBILITY here. Feel free to keep posting. If nothing else your posts give us fodder and entertainment during the day. Your stupidity is absolutely amusing. Keep on posting honey.
ReplyDeleteBTW-I could care less what you think of me or if our conversation is over. IMHO, you are a liar, lazy, ignorant and have no interest in the travel industry other than recruiting.
Just for your information, I don't have a huge downline nor is that my focus. There ARE people that I run into who are very interested and have joined the company.
ReplyDeleteMY FOCUS IS SELLING TRAVEL, WHICH I DO VERY WELL AND HAVE THE CREDENTIALS TO DO IT.
"You don't give a shit about the travel industry at all."
ReplyDeleteOh, please. Truth hurt? Get a thick skin honey.
Denyse, unlike Doug John does not censor things. And, it is really hard to keep one's cool when you people constantly taunt us.
Hey Anonymous & Regina. I am offended that you have an ordained minister scamming people. And, I am even more offended by the lies that are thrown out there in the name of recruiting. Especially, the ones about saving your home from foreclosure by joining YTB. As if YTB is the magic bullet that is going to make the bank go away and all your creditors. If you are facing foreclosure joining YTB is the last thing you should do.
ReplyDeleteYou guys come off as good old Christian, Jesus loving people. Well, in my Church people don't rip off other people and unethically recruit.
"MY FOCUS IS SELLING TRAVEL, WHICH I DO VERY WELL AND HAVE THE CREDENTIALS TO DO IT."
ReplyDeleteIf it WAS you would join another host. But, it's not. Sure, you have credentials like what recruiting 101? LOL! As I stated before if you are serious JOIN ANOTHER HOST! Plenty of good ones out there. I was even nice enough to list some for you. But you won't because I am correct and it's all about the down line. You can say you are serious till you are blue in the face but until you find and move to another host they are meaningless words.
"John: you certainly should not allow anyone on this blog to disrespect another person. You and I have emailed on a few occasions. I believe you know how serious I am about travel. We disagree on my choice. But disrespecting others is not cool in any manner and does not speak well for your efforts.
ReplyDeletedenyse"
Denyse - John facilitates it.
"Do a google search on Lloyd Tomer and the rest of the gang at YTB. Scam artists all of them. Even the locals in Alton don't have nice things to say about them. That is a fact from comments posted on news items about YTB in the local paper. Read the St. Louis Dispatch about YTB. Are they wrong too? And, then there is the bogus gas additive scam Coach tried and was basically shut down by the State AG. The guy is a piece of work and a con a. Any intelligent person can see that"
ReplyDeleteAnd apparently AT believe everything she reads on the internet. But who's telling the truth?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXwG1NgXZFs
"Regarding background/credit checks, my host required one and the better hosts do plus references. You probably didn't apply to those that required any of that because you have something to hide."
ReplyDeleteBoy, I bet some on here are glad that they don't run credit checks after you get started!
Firemedic....don't taunt.
ReplyDeleteMY intent has never been to taunt, but to clarify misconceptions, misrepresentation and just stuff that's confusing.
Where's Regina??
Firemedic, that video was great. I wonder who has made what I'm looking to earn. If none, then why do I listen????
ReplyDeleteLOL
Wow! Things certainly have deteriorated over here in the last few hours.
ReplyDeleteLook, if you are in YTB, and your intention is to make a career in travel, then you need to get out of YTB. Period. You will never have any respect or credibility with anyone in the industry as long as you are affiliated with them. While there may be plenty of vendors willing to hold their noses while they take your money, the bottom line is that neither the suppliers or industry organizations have a shred of respect for the travel mlms. You can come over here and whine all you want to, but it's not going to change it.
Leaving YTB doesn't mean you lost. It means you made a great business decision. Look at the rantings of Traveling Mom. Do you really want your reputation to be based on someone like that?
Your claims of being smart business people, and your loyalty to YTB don't mix. It's amazing to me that anyone who is serious about a career in travel would stick with them. If you were with a host, or on your own, with 6 independent agents working with you, you would make far more than you will make with YTB. If nothing else, do the math!
You are all so stinking loyal to Coach and his clan, but where is their loyalty to you? Did they set up a reputable company, provide you with great training, and set you up for success? No! They created a pyramid scheme, operated outside the rules and regulations, and are now being sued by 2 states for their business practices. Everything they have done has been reactionary, and at this point there is no chance of the rest of the industry accepting you. Your loyalty should be to you, not them. If you're half as smart as you would like us to believe, you'd get the heck out of YTB.
utravelchick, as anonymous, said...."How can you in all honesty say that I have no problem with that???? This is what I mean about a waste of precious time. I spent about 2 hours total yesterday saying that I agree with those points.
ReplyDeleteThe company SHOULD HAVE made the training mandatory before anyone was allowed to use titles and perform certain functions. That did not happen. Why are we continuing to re-hash already stated information??? The bottom line is now there is mandatory training before certain functions are performed. I'll say again - I don't see the need for those who wish to just direct people to their websites to be comprehensively trained. There is no contact with customers (except to direct), no contact with vendors and no contact with suppliers. They only need to know what's on the site. THAT is provided.
We are on the same page!
Then those people should be barred by ytb from using the words "travel agent" in any shape, fashion or form to describe themselves and what they do. They should also be barred from any and all perks afforded travel agents.
"I didn't settle with this company. I checked those other agencies out SINCE I have been with this company - just to see what else is out there. I'm happy here. They may provide a few cents more in commissions, but there's more here. No need for detail."
More? What more? Please elaborate, because I can think of several things that legitimate hosts agencies have that ytb don't, and only one thing that ytb has that legit host don't.
Anonymous said...
"If you're comfortable handing over your credit card information to someone who was just released from the state pen, then God bless ya, but I'm not."
Wow, Janice......MANY of you here COULD be in the same situation. We would not know. How many customers walk into your presence and ask if you've ever been incarcerated?? Hmmmmm
None, because we have all been vetted by our host agencies.
Duly noted and appreciated!
ReplyDeleteHave a great night! Off to book yet another dream vacation.
"You will never have any respect or credibility with anyone in the industry as long as you are affiliated with them. While there may be plenty of vendors willing to hold their noses while they take your money, the bottom line is that neither the suppliers or industry organizations have a shred of respect for the travel mlms."
ReplyDeleteThat's really odd Kate. "Never"? Is Carnival really "holding their noses"? None of the suppliers or organizations have a shred of respect? That's only your wish. That's what you need to be true but it's not. That's just your opinion.
"Your claims of being smart business people, and your loyalty to YTB don't mix. It's amazing to me that anyone who is serious about a career in travel would stick with them. If you were with a host, or on your own, with 6 independent agents working with you, you would make far more than you will make with YTB. If nothing else, do the math!"
This is exactly the case from the video link I posted. And you are making income claims that you would hammer YTB for making. Perhaps you meant "could" make more money. But that argument can go for just about ANY endeavor. It's just that because YOU don't like YTB that you need for that to be true so you can be right.
"You are all so stinking loyal to Coach and his clan, but where is their loyalty to you? Did they set up a reputable company, provide you with great training, and set you up for success? No!"
Your opinion. We disagree and we expect that.
" They created a pyramid scheme, operated outside the rules and regulations, and are now being sued by 2 states for their business practices."
Two states? Would you like to correct that statement? And when did being sued mean you are guilty?
"Everything they have done has been reactionary, and at this point there is no chance of the rest of the industry accepting you."
When people use words like "everything" or "every time" or "always", it's usually an exageration that cannot be substantiated. Especially in this case. And as far as the rest of the industry accepting us, that is only Kate's wish and hopes. Kate, I believe, is a pro in the travel business, but I do not believe she speaks for the whole industry as she would like you to believe.
There is always going to be people that don't understand what you are doing and instead of them trying to understand and find common ground, they want you to change so they don't have to. These opinions are the same thing that A.L. Williams experienced. the same hostility, accusations of never being accepted, same spin,..... And still went on to be number 1 for the past 23 out of 25 years. And this time some of the same players are playing. YTB is not going anywhere anytime soon as the posse hope and dream. That's not meant as a thumbing of the nose, it's just the truth in my opinion. I think the posse could do more for the industry my trying to come together with YTB with an open mind rather than "it's my way or the highway" attitude.
Why don't you all get together and find a date that you can all go to Wood River and just sit down with all of the people you so like to slander and talk about your concerns? Also be open to feedback. I can just about bet that YTB would accomodate you for that meeting or series of meetings. Keep and open mind and see what you can come up with that might be common ground. Caution though, you might find out that these people aren't what you thought and you might risk losing your hatred! But seriously. Call them and ask for it.
When the average RTA makes $104 a year and the average Rep makes $93, I think it is a safe bet to say that you WOULD make more almost anywhere.
ReplyDeleteI have suggested on many occasions to attend a legitimate travel show and approach any vendor and just say, "boy, how about YTB" and see the reaction. Not all, but most of the vendors I speak with do not like dealing with YTB, but the ones that do, do so because the directive came down the pike. There is a show next week in BWI. I know some people from YTB will be there and it is a serious suggestion. Do not say anything pro or con, just say "boy, how about that YTB". Anyone up for the challenge?
And how's this for a shocker...I agree---every and always are strong terms. The word "most" would have been a better choice!
And yes only one state has filed suit, but the other is investigating and likely will as well. You are right, you are innocent till proven guilty, but your guilt (if it happens) will be by a preponderance of the evidence and this blog and MANY MANY other sources have certainly provided that on a daily basis!
Ok Firemedic, I agree that my use of words like "always" and "never" are not accurate or helpful in this situation. However, other than Carnival, I have yet to encounter a vendor who openly talks about their relationship with YTB. And I don't think you'll find very many people outside YTB defending it.
ReplyDeleteThere are at least 3000 agents who have an issue with the mlm travel model, and you can read all of their names on the petion from last year.
I have had several vendors make comments to me about their interactions with YTB. One rep from a very large supplier stated that they hated dealing with them, and on more than one occasion had threatened to charge YTB for training, as their reps had no clue what they were doing when they called in. Another sales rep from a hotel chain said they quit doing home based travel shows, because " it was nothing but YTBers who wanted to see what they could get for free."
YTB may have had some success in the industry, but they went about it all the worst possible way. If they wanted to make a positive impact they would have set their reps up for success rather than failure and embarassment. There are literally thousands of agents who share our feeling about this.
You have mentioned having us go to Wood RIver, but it won't do any good. Many organizations, such as ASTA, IATA, and again, over 3000 have made it clear to YTB over and over that our issue is, and always has been, turning untrained inexperienced people loose in the industry, and the abuse of fams. YTB doesn't give a shit what anyone else thinks, as long as they are making money.
Speaking of us going to Wood River, firemedic, I'm currently in New Orleans for VooDoo Fest, and to celebrate my birthday on Tuesday. Checking with you one last time......were you or were you not able to set up that meeting between me and the old man for Monday at 11:00am at Cafe Du Monde? I know how important it is for you for the two of us to meet, and since Monday is the only free time I'm going to have for the near future, I would have thought you would have let me know by now if you were successful or not.
ReplyDelete"You have mentioned having us go to Wood RIver, but it won't do any good."
ReplyDeleteYou don't know that. You may be surprised on what an impact you might have on the industry but also on yourself. You may find out it's not what you think. But if you want to continue to just be right about the way you feel, with limited information, all you have to do is keep doing what you are in just griping and blogging about it. Again, I am willng to bet YTB would be more than happy to sit down with you and hear you.
Ainsworth....sigh. Dude you just don't know when to let it go do you. You had your invitation and you choose to ignore it. It's okay. Just let it go. Have fun. Make a video or something!
ReplyDeleteSo I take that as a no, you were not able to set anything up. Wow, and I thought you had more pull than that!
ReplyDeleteIf I was YTB I will have every director delete their email list and personally add only people that actually joined and have a website get the travel compass in there emails.You need to be investigated for fraud. Because you know to much stuff not to be getting emails from YTB. And only members get those.
ReplyDeleteWhy are you so obsessed with this company anyway. Your not going to stop them. You talk about the same stuff all the time everyday nothing new. I don't get it. If you are making money doing what you do for living why are you worried about other people.
You think you are watching other people but I believe people are watching you. MORE THAN YOU KNOW. I won't go after people with more money than you hope you dotted your I's. They are looking for a way to take you down stupid man.
And you are the center of attention. I hope your house is in order sir. What is it they say about throwing stones. You are in the spotlight like obama and mccain and people in the spotlight make themselves vulnerable to certain things.
"There is a show next week in BWI. I know some people from YTB will be there and it is a serious suggestion. Do not say anything pro or con, just say "boy, how about that YTB". Anyone up for the challenge?"
ReplyDeleteI plan to be there John and I'll take you up on that offer. Just so you know, saying "boy, how about that YTB" has its own negative tone.
And I agree, some people have made things really bad for a lot of us, however, as time goes on they'll begin to see who's serious and who's not.
Disclaimer: that previous post was NOT made by me, UrTravelChick.
ReplyDeleteAnd the above "Anonymous" quote (that was not trafelchick) does not speak for all of us and is ridiculous. To me it came accross as a threat and is out of line.
ReplyDeleteYou all DO travel like an insider, don't you? You don't pay retail rates when discounted rates are available, do you?? All that means is that IF you become a part of this industry AND you become trained in this industry, there are perks, FAMs, Partner Exclusive Trips, etc for you to take IF they are available.
ReplyDeleteAgent rates are not found frequently, so yes most of us pay retail the majority of the time. When TA rates are available they are often tied to productivity, holding a valid IATAN card, and are often fairly last minute (offered to fill space on a ship last minute, etc.).
Intelligent people don't get mixed up with an MLM.
Respectively, I think this is a bit too broad and inflammatory ... there are respectable (non travel) MLMs out there and intelligent people involved. Travel MLMs are another animal though.
"Agent rates are not found frequently, so yes most of us pay retail the majority of the time. When TA rates are available they are often tied to productivity, holding a valid IATAN card, and are often fairly last minute (offered to fill space on a ship last minute, etc.)."
ReplyDeleteVery sorry for you. I often receive professional discounts, many times without asking. The discounts I've received are NOT attached to productivity for I have no IATAN; of course you know that.
There are millions and millions of unintelligent people out there (for the first poster). And probably close to 500,000 of unintelligent people (for the second poster).
"Respectively, I think this is a bit too broad and inflammatory ... there are respectable (non travel) MLMs out there and intelligent people involved. Travel MLMs are another animal though."
ReplyDeleteThe "respectively" quote is appreciated. The part about the travel mlm's being a different animal though we couldn't disagree with more. The MLM business model has proven to be one of the best forms of distribution. It, just like the traditional business model, can be abused too. There MLM business model is working with travel but just like the insurance business and legal services, there are those that just can't see it working. They can only see it being sold through the paradigm they have always known. The traditional way will always be viable but the MLM model will also be. This where, again, those that oppose it would serve themselves and the industry better if they actually took the time to understand it better and find common ground to move forward on rather than just completely resist it.
In My Humble Opinion says..."I often receive professional discounts, many times without asking. The discounts I've received are NOT attached to productivity for I have no IATAN; of course you know that."
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry Denyse, but the only way to put this is to say that you're totally full of shit. If you don't ask for the discounts, then do mean to say that when you're checking into some hotel, the clerk says, "Are you a travel agent and may I give you a courtesy discount?" That's just an example. And why should you be ENTITLED to any discount in the first place? Sure, you went on the free cruise from "Coach" because he couldn't sell out the ship and gave it to preachers and military. You took advantage of that since your husband is a preacher. So is John and I didn't see him taking "Coach" up on the offer. You also stated some time back that being a preacher isn't a job, it's a calling. Yeah, sure. Would your husband be a preacher for a living if he didn't get paid? It's a job! Much like "Coach's" job is to be a preacher and a con man.
I AM a supplier rep and I can tell you without a single doubt that we reps have zero respect for anyone in a travel MLM. That would also include the local Carnival rep here. So when you go to that trade show, don't wear your little YTB tag and do ask some reps what they think of YTB. We have been told not to comment. Why? Because of the tiny amount of business you bring us, we'll take your money and give you nothing in return in the way of perks or even allow you in OUR trade shows. Although the company I work for is featured on your website, we certainly did not attend right along with the hundreds of other suppliers that passed on the offer.
On a personal note, I'm sorry you lost your mother and I know it's a difficult time.
Now for you, Firemedic....Do you ever work? This seems to be your full time job. Possibly you should ask "Coach" for a raise.
(Sorry about the screen name and I know I said I was going to retire it after Mix went back under the porch in hiding, but the bullshit from the YTBers pissed me off and I had to come out of retirement to comment.)
To the anonymous poster that offered the vague threat....
ReplyDeleteYou offer a good suggestion. YTB should do more to control what is said about them to the public. That would include enforcing their policies on their Reps and RTAs.
Maybe if YTB had a policy to purge the Reps that are no longer in the system (they never do because it helps recruiting and makes the numbers look good) they would not have sent out that many emails. As of January 31, they had 303K reps and like 131K RTAs that all got that email. We know not all of them are active and many are even working with your competition, but YTB is the one sending them the info.
But lest you feel there is something nefarious going on, if YTB wants to keep their info top secret, perhaps they should not publish it on the web for the world to see. You do realize it is called the WORLD Wide Web for a reason don't you?
I particularly enjoyed your comment about as long as I am making money it should not concern me. If your wife was raped, I assume you would not be concerned because--hey it did not happen to you. Are we only to be concerned with things that effect us monetarily?
Those MORE THAN I KNOW people can watch all they like and I will continue to post opinion and back it up with the substantiation as I have pretty much daily for just about a year!
Firemedic, while I am impressed that YTB yanked Travelingmoms blog so quickly, I can tell you that over a year ago I suggested that a lot of this tension would go away if YTB simply enforced some training and standards. And, that perhaps YTB should try to develop a panel or something with traditional agents to find a way for YTB agents to improve standards and maybe gain some respectability in the industry.Imagine where they would be had they maybe taken on John or someone as a consultant for 3 months, compared to where they are now. Your rtas would have been much better trained, able to earn more, and you wouldn't have any reason to be hanging out on this blog.
ReplyDeleteThis was way before they got in trouble with IATAN and others. This is the reply. "It is important to understand that YTB in no way attempts to compete with high touch, high service professional travel agents. YTB is competing for the 80 million or so travelers who have chosen the Internet as their travel agency. Our RTAs primarily “point” to an Internet booking engine similar to Orbitz, Travelocity, etc. and engage family and friends in booking their travel on their site. It is our desire for each RTA to focus on building their travel business and to treat travel agents and the travel community with the utmost respect and consideration. It is our goal to conduct business in harmony with professional travel agents, as well as other sectors of the travel industry."
So, as you can see, it was just a really long "thanks but no thanks" response. Coach could have saved his company a lot of hassle, embarassment, and a really big legal bill if they would have taken us up on our suggestion over a year ago, but chose to pass. We went to them,with respectful suggestions for a peaceful co-existence with ttas, and a way to save their own ass, and they turned us down flat. Look where they are now.
TM apparently ISN'T gone. On her blog now, even though in the past she has blamed John, firemedic and ytb (twice) for it's demise, she is now stating that she changed it because of a change coming in the "company"
ReplyDeleteFriday, October 24, 2008
Don't be alarmed Traveling Mom is not going anywhere. She is still offering the greatest opportunity. If it don't make sense don't get involved that simple. Blog was changed to get ready for the new direction the company is going. So the old videos are obselete so check out the new video click the link below. Everything you need to know on one video presentation. Have Fun and Enjoy! __Traveling Mom
As to the anonymous poster (utravelchick, I knew it wasn't you, you sound more intelligent than to say anything like what was posted), why is it that threats such as this have to always be anonymous? Why can't whomever posts them ever be original enough to at least come up with some type of screen name. Anonymous threats are never taken seriously, and even threats without a REAL name are taken with a huge grain of salt. I mean, c'mon, even those around here that use screen names are readily known in the community and their actual names are known. We have John, Kate, Mary, John, Chris, Denyse, Larry, Taylor, Janice, Margaret, etc., and a lot of these people I even know their last names and where they live (not exact addresses, but cities and/or states) as do other people.
In other words, anonymous, what I'm trying to say is this.....if you're going to threaten someone, at least be a man, or woman, about it. Don't be a coward and hide behind the "anonymous" tag.
firemedic-Both the Alton paper and the St. Louis Dispatch are highly respected papers. And, yes I believe what they wrote. They have documented what they wrote and it is not opinion.
ReplyDeleteAs to your comment about us needing credit checks after we sign up with a host you don't know what you are talking about. Many of us make a decent living selling travel with a host. You and your cohorts seem to think the only way to make money in travel is through an MLM. This is patently false and does not have 1 grain of truth to it. Again, Wood River is telling you this so you won't leave them. It amazes me how easily manipulated you are.
"Why don't you all get together and find a date that you can all go to Wood River and just sit down with all of the people you so like to slander and talk about your concerns? Also be open to feedback."
ReplyDeleteROTFLMAO! They would try to RECRUIT us. It would be like sitting in a high pressure time share sales pitch. No thanks, I have better use of my time than to sit and listen to a bunch of snake oil sales people.
"Very sorry for you. I often receive professional discounts, many times without asking. The discounts I've received are NOT attached to productivity for I have no IATAN; of course you know that."
ReplyDeleteRegina, that is a lie. They don't just hand out discounts. And, they are indeed tied into productivity and a valid IATAN card. See, this is the problem we have with YTB. You make these false claims to recruit. You people will do or say anything to get people to sign up even it it is patently false. And, then you keep saying it even after your called on the carpet. Keep the recruiting cash flowing in. You know nothing about the travel business nor do you deserve discounts.
Let me jump in here. I believe the person that made the comment is Denyse not Regina, but....
ReplyDeleteI never (well rarely) travel "like an insider" unless on a specific FAM. I prefer to see how my clients are treated from their viewpoint and not form someone looking to kiss ass to make an impression.
I never identify myself as being associated with the media or the industry. And often times I am indeed upgraded. Sometimes it is because of my airline or hotel preferred guest status and a lot of times it is because I was just nice and polite to the people that are trying to help me.
So upgrades that are just offered are likely because the clerk liked you, was in a good mood, etc.
I believe Denyse is inferring she gets discounts because she is in YTB. Big difference than being polite or having miles.
ReplyDeleteOK, I think I finally have this thing figured out.
ReplyDeleteSorry about the above deletion, but I realized that since my first and last initial are the same as the owner of this blog, some might think it were him posting under a pseudonym, and I wanted to make sure that all know it definetly is not.
Interesting blog. Have been watching it for quite a while now, and as a former employee of one of the largest all inclusives in the Caribbean (no, I won't give a name, but suffice it to say that the company started in Jamaica) who worked in both reservations and operations, I can tell you that anytime we got a call from anyone involved with ANY of the travel MLM's we would cringe. A call from someone in a travel MLM would take 2-3 times as long as what you all are calling a traditional travel agent. They were never prepared, asking questions that could have been answered by just a little research on their part on the webpage of the resorts, or by looking through the brochure that is made available to them. They were also very rude. When reminded that all answers to their questions could be found online or in print, the standard response went along the lines of "why bother doing that, that's what you're there for". Uhm, no, I think not. My job was to make the reservation. If I worked the phones that took calls from the general public, then my job would be to answer questions about the different resorts.
When I moved to the operations department, my job was dealing with travel agent reduced rates. Standard policy for anyone from a travel MLM was that they could get the 20% off offer, no more, even though we did offer rates of $75-$100 per day, depending on the resort requested, space available. The reason we did this was, yes the MLM travel companies did bring us some guest, but not enough to justify giving them any more than the 20% off. Since they did bring us some guests, we felt that we needed to offer them something. Agent rates was an area where MLM agents would really get rude and demanding. They wanted the best rooms at the lowest rates at any given time, even holidays. I had one MLM agent that I had to turn down even the 20% to, and was cursed at like you wouldn't believe. The requested time frame was over Valentines Day, one of our busiest times, and all of the resorts were almost at capacity. This agent told me that she just had to have the room and rate, and deserved it, because she had just had quite a large booking with us. I told her that I would look into it, make a special request from my superiors, and could I have the reservation number so that I could show it to them. She didn't know it. OK, so, what was the name of the guests. I pulled it up by that, and low and behold, the reservation was for a 3 night stay (our minimum) in our least expensive room catagory, at our least expensive resort.....a year and a half previously. When I called her back, I asked if perhaps she had made a mistake and given me the wrong name, and she said that no, it was correct because that was the only people she had ever booked at any of our resorts. Needless to say, I did not go to my superiors and make a special request for her, and turned her down flat. Again, I was cursed and was told that she would "have my job for this". I continued in my job for another 2 years.
I no longer work for the resort company, not in the travel industry at all, not that I wouldn't enjoy getting back into it. Knowing what I do know, from the supply side of it, an MLM is not the way to go. From my experience in dealing with people that are in the travel MLM's, education is either non existant or is not a top priority. As travel is an ever changing industry, with new stuff coming out, and things changing at the drop of a hat, education has got to be paramount. If I couldn't be with a company that understands that, I wouldn't want to inflict myself on a supplier. It would be selfish.
Well, John Connely, you could have stuck with the JCF, since (according to the YTBers) our fearless leader is JWF. But thanks for weighing in here.
ReplyDeleteAFA going to Wood River. If Kim essentially thumbed his nose at the idea of controlling the minions, why do you think anyone in Wood River would be interested in talking to us?
What happened to not allowing Anonymous posts?
ReplyDelete"AFA going to Wood River. If Kim essentially thumbed his nose at the idea of controlling the minions, why do you think anyone in Wood River would be interested in talking to us?"
ReplyDeleteKim said he was not going to change his business model. That's a fact. The meaning for that is whatever YOU want it to mean. You chose to call it "thumbing his nose". I don't believe that was his intention whatsoever. Someone else may say that his comment meant he was serious about travel. Someone else may attach the meaning of what he said was that was going to change the business model right now but perhaps in the future. So which one is wrong? They all are because the meaning are ALL made up. You just chose to attach the meaning of "thumbing the nose" because it serves your belief that he doesn't care about travel. I don't believe he said he was not going to "control the minions." YTB has recently added some rules with some teeth and from what I have heard from the home office they intend to use them.
I can just about guarantee that they would be willing to sit down with you without preconditions and listen to what you are saying. Instead of just coming on here day after day and blogging and griping about what you don't like, have a face-to-face candid conversation. It might do both parties some good and may serve you a TON better than just griping about it. I challenge you to have that face to face dialogue.
John Connely - Your input is appreciated. I disagree with you about MLM but if that is the way some of the MLM people were acting, I would have done the same thing in your position.
ReplyDeleteFM it is not up to a bunch of people to organize something like that.
ReplyDeleteI have suggested to the Editors of Travel Weekly, Travel Trade, and Travel Agent to put together a "summit" of sorts. I know TW loves to do "roundtables". But so far nothing.
This is an industry issue and it really ought to involve the trade media as well.
FM, like John says, it's not up to a bunch of people to organize something like that. If Wood River is really serious about resolving issues, then they need to do the inviting. They are at the center of the controversy.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I will go on record to say that I would come if something were organized. To represent the (TTA) masses, so to speak, if that was what people wanted. But do you think any supplier is going to agree to come? Do you think YTB wants to have someone like Traveling Mom represent the (YTB) masses?
Believe me, if I lived close enough, I'd have already been over to a Red Carpet Day. I'm immensely curious about what makes people so dedicated. Snake oil, or true opportunity? But I have neither the time nor funds to just pop on over just for the heck of it.
You ask, FM, you ask. Or Doug. I doubt if you get an answer.
IMO, it would be a total waste of time and money. YTB is not going to give up the MLM model or the down line. They don't give a darn about the travel industry. It's a numbers game for them. And, from their past behavior they will milk it for all it's worth, make their money and on to the next big thing. IMO, I think Kim should get in the weight loss business. He could be their poster child.
ReplyDeleteOne more thing, Kim could have opened the door to discussion between YTB and the travel industry during his pathetic interview with TW. But, he didn't. He said YTB wasn't changing the business model and inferred if we didn't like it too bad. Then he went on to say YTB is going to be the largest like it or not and they were going to have more "greenies."
ReplyDeleteHe was not gracious. He was arrogant. He thumbed his nose with the you don't like it too bad attitude. Nah, nah, nah. ad
Firemedic, YTB had their chance to converse with us already and passed. And IATAN, RCI, ASTA, and many others tried to tell them what they needed to do, and they ignored it. The CA AG tried to work with them for 18 months, and again they ignored it. I believe that this is a company operating on greed and ego, and it not committed to the travel industry or your success.
ReplyDeleteI had a feeling this was going to be the response from most. John didn't say it was out of the question but said he believed the media should be involved and perhaps so. But what I hear from the rest are excuses to continue to just gripe and complain. They NEED YTB to be wrong at this point since they are so invested in their hatred against YTB. I mean, if they humbled themselves long enough to open their minds, they make themselves vulnerable to the possibility that YTB is not as bad as they thought. That would mean that they could be partially misinformed themselves and they just can't have that. What I hear being said is that this issue is black and white: one side is wrong and the other is right rather than both sides need improvement.
ReplyDelete"He was not gracious. He was arrogant. He thumbed his nose with the you don't like it too bad attitude. Nah, nah, nah."
Yes, I heard him say he was not going to drop the business model. You chose to see that as "thumbing his nose" and all. You made up that term. I heard him call the TTA's the "Pro's"! That's a compliment is it not?
It has been pretty evident that the anti's on this blog only want to gripe. I am just offering up the challenge to you to let your guard down a bit and approach it a little different. Have the face to face dialogue. It may help, it may not. But it's a risk, in that you may find out it's not as bad as you have made it up to be. But that would require you to have an open mind and that's terribly risky when you are so invested in your hatred for YTB.
Firemedic--whatever. There really is not much else to say.
ReplyDeleteHave you ever been to a travel industry trade show? Heck, were you at the convention for YTB or Funshine?
It seems to me that you are the one speaking with very little knowledge of the industry.
I have personally attended several recruiting meetings, a Flouders Tour, a CRTA class, a FCT training, and listened in to a few of the Saturday morning drink the kool aid calls. I have viewed hundreds of YouTube videos and visited thousands of websites. I had meaningful discussions with Doug before he decided to move to personal attacks and not stick to the subject at hand. I have had conversations with Regina Osei, Denyse McIntyre, Von Nickelberry, Rod Ward, Ted Lindauer, Joe Jarvies (Shanghai Spring/YTB), Don Bradley, and Candi May (via email). I have also spoken with a dozen or so former Reps and RTAs about their experience with YTB. So I am not speaking for everyone else, but I think I have done enough reaching out to learn about YTB. What have you done to learn about the industry?
Why is it with firemedic, that we have to do things on ytb's terms? I have to go to headquarters to let the old man know what I think of him, he won't, or can't, come to me when I make it plain where I'll be and when. We have to get a group together to go to Wood River and meet with them.
ReplyDeleteYou would think that the one that is so "misunderstood" would try to do all that they could to try to correct those "misunderstandings". I mean, just look at the industry that produces high fructose corn syrup. They're making a concerted effort to get people to understand their product. Not ytb, though.
"But that would require you to have an open mind and that's terribly risky when you are so invested in your hatred for YTB."
ReplyDeleteNone of us HATE YTB as you claim. We don't like what they have done to the industry, don't like the way they run their business and don't like the way they talk out both sides of their mouths. IF YTB wants to be viable and get the respect of the industry they need to replace the entire management team starting with Tomer, Kim and the rest of the gang. Get rid of the down line and all the other garbage.
And, firemedic did it ever occur to you that you might be WRONG? Why is it always us and YTB and you are always right? There is enough evidence to support our claims, yet you ignore it. You and the rest of the gang act like you don't have any sense or even the remotest ability to think for yourselves....
"What have you done to learn about the industry?"
ReplyDeleteWell John, first of all I came on here several months back to find out what the critics were saying. What I found was that as soon as they found out I was with YTB, I was immediately attacked and attempted to be shamed. That seems to be the MO here. But I have stayed on here and look at other forums to read the nastiness. From there I find whatever I find out there to investigate your spin. Up to this point here is what I predominantly see.
1. You have some very legitimate concerns. That is what I saw from the beginning. Some of these concerns, however, are blown out of proportion but some are not. I see where YTB has been weak and I see where they are not what you make them out to be. Some of these concerns of yours I have addressed in person myself with the home office. When I did, sometimes I liked the answers and sometimes I didn't. I know you can't please everyone.
2. Next I found that the people on these forums throw 10:1 more mud than that of YTB. There are some in YTB that conduct themselves poorly on forums and in the public but again it seems to be 10:1 ratio in favor of the anti's.
3. There is no ONE issue that is claimed on these forums as the problem. One day it's the recruiting. The next day it's "greenies". The next day it's that someone felt that someone else "thumbed their nose" at someone else. It's never ending.
Next John what I have done is subscribed to Travel Weekly, Travel Agent, Travel Trade and participated in things like the TW leisure travel summit. It has definitely verified some of your concerns in that there is a lot to learn in the travel industry. And no one knows it all. I have talked to vendors and TTA's. Yes I was at the convention and no I didn't go to funshine.
And just for you Kit, yes. Yes I have been wrong on some issues. But I don't feel I am all wrong on all of the issues. I have never said we were right on ALL of the issues.
John I saw the list of names of all the people you said you talked to. What I didn't see was any of principals of the company. No open and honest communication with the ones running the company. No listening, only talking on both sides. When you talked to these people John, were you talking to understand or just to find fault and condemn? Again, all I have seen on this forum, other than the occasional "small step" comments, is condemnation. Anything they do is wrong. No person and no company does EVERYTHING wrong.
"None of us HATE YTB as you claim. We don't like what they have done to the industry"
Done to the industry? YTB doesn't even have 1% of the the market share of America, let alone the world and YTB has done something to the industry? I think this is just like everyone blaming George Bush for all the problems because it's the one face they can place on a bigger problem.
Again what do you have to lose by having the face-to-face, open, honest, adult (sorry Ainsworth but calling someone a 'waste of skin' doesn't pass that test), conversation? Be heard then LISTEN. Again, you might find that YTB's intentions are not what you think.
Firemedic...have you attended a travel industry function in person? Have you attended the YTB convention? The Funshine?
ReplyDeleteThere is not a single issue and you make it seem like there ought to be. But for your edification:
1. YTB has put forth "greenies" pretending to be travel agents and this is a disservice to consumers
2. YTB has built their business on recruiting people and selling them into a program that simply does not work for the majority upon the false promises of discounts and traveling like an insider. We realize the suppliers allow this.
3. YTB has condoned and allowed anyone associated with them to say anything and everything to get the sale. Traveling Mom said that by joining YTB I would get $4000 back on my taxes. Mike Arcari invented Dr. Seligman and YTB allows it to continue.
4. YTB had (and is now correcting it slowly) no training requirement and the only requirement was a valid credit card. Their recruiting pitch was from Yale or Jail....State Pen or Penn State it does not matter.
5. YTB has proven over the last 7 years that they are not about selling travel but about getting people to pay $50 a month. Look at the financials for proof. Additionally, none of senior management has any experience in travel. None of the Board has any experience in travel. But you know what? The majority are very well versed in MLM/Pyramid Schemes and in getting $50 a month from the recruits.
In a nutshell those are the 5 main issues I see with YTB and anything else that has been stated on here is in support of it.
So, since you neglected to answer my direct questions am I to assume that you have never attended an industry function, a YTB convention or the Funshine? If so, how can you be serious about YTB OR the travel industry? Apparently you do not feel strongly enough towards either!
"So, since you neglected to answer my direct questions am I to assume that you have never attended an industry function, a YTB convention or the Funshine? If so, how can you be serious about YTB OR the travel industry? Apparently you do not feel strongly enough towards either!"
ReplyDeleteObviously you did not read all of my previous post.
"Next John what I have done is subscribed to Travel Weekly, Travel Agent, Travel Trade and participated in things like the TW leisure travel summit. It has definitely verified some of your concerns in that there is a lot to learn in the travel industry. And no one knows it all. I have talked to vendors and TTA's. Yes I was at the convention and no I didn't go to funshine."
I have also taken training through Princess and Cunard, CLIA's Cruise Academy, and YTB's eCampus training developed by Mancini.
Each one of you 5 five points has a rebuttal but that's not the point. Take those five points and have the conversation with the principals in an open-minded and candid conversation. You know that face-to-face conversations are better than phone, emails, or blogging. Think outside the box here a bit. Don't let everything be black and white. You might have a little impact on the industry right now by just being negative all the time but I suggest you could have a HUGE impact if you could shelf you paradigms for just a moment.
OK you convinced me. What is your Rep site, I want to sign up under you.
ReplyDeleteSo you have not attended any travel industry function or a YTB function in person. Thanks.
"Yes I was at the convention and no I didn't go to funshine."
ReplyDeleteAgain, you did not read my post. I WAS at the convention for five days.
Firemedic, I'm sorry, but I just don't understand you. The convention is not a trade function. It is a YTB convention that promotes YTB. As a supplier rep, I can tell you that by not attending trade shows which I know they have in Wichita at times, by just reading magazines and doing online classes, you are not knowledgeable in any form of travel. Princess and Cunard are suppliers just like my company. We do NOT train. We sell our products.
ReplyDeleteYou may know about MLM, but you do not know about travel. So why do you think you are a travel agent or any form of one? Is it because you paid to be called a referring travel agent? Sorry, it doesn't cut it in the industry and especially with suppliers.
Firemedic, like Kim and most ytbers, will never answer a direct, head on question. They will do the duck and dodge, and when you back them into a corner with it, will disappear for a while thinking that you will forget about the question. He sort of answered John's question this time about attending industry events, but only because he's the only fool still making an arguement for ytb's side.
ReplyDeleteWhy is it with firemedic, that we have to do things on ytb's terms? I have to go to headquarters to let the old man know what I think of him, he won't, or can't, come to me when I make it plain where I'll be and when. We have to get a group together to go to Wood River and meet with them.
You would think that the one that is so "misunderstood" would try to do all that they could to try to correct those "misunderstandings". I mean, just look at the industry that produces high fructose corn syrup. They're making a concerted effort to get people to understand their product. While there is still much controversy over the product, they are at least reaching out. Not ytb, though.
Come on Ains you know firemedic isn't even on Wood River's radar. Well, maybe he is. I bet when they figure out who he really is they will censor him just like the rest of the nut cases like Traveling Mom. YTB wouldn't want anyone to think they recruit mentally unstable individuals now would they?
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting that the only supplier training Firemedic has taken is a training course that gives you a free cruise for participating.
ReplyDelete