Yesterday, a column appeared on MSNBC about a group of people that were screwed out of their vacation--sort of.
Now, I think the customer should share some blame for not realizing a mistake, but regardless, my contention is that it likely would not have happened had there been a properly trained agent involved in the process. While this fiasco involved Joystar, it could very well have happened to any of the MLM agencies out there that simply recruit and cast untrained, unprofessional card carrying "agents" to handle the travel of customers.
The gist of the story is that a group of 73 booked with a new untrained "agent" associated with Joystar. The quoted price was about half what it was supposed to be, likely as a result of rebating and lack of training. Rather than address the issue, the agent quit; after all there was no real financial investment in the business. This left the booking in the lap of Joystar that ultimately rebated its commission to help ease the pain for the customer. Like the group that got the shaft from another untrained agent in Baltimore, Joystar was probably not legally responsible, but they did step up to the plate and help out a little. Shortly after this was disclosed to Celebrity, Joystar lost their ability to sell the RCI brands.
I think we all can see the problem here and the end result is not pretty:
- Joystar lost their ability to book all Royal Caribbean products.
- The customer has a bargain of a cruise but a very bad taste in mouth for agents.
- The agent is no longer in the business and apparently is unrepentant.
- Joystar looks bad for "hiring" the agent in the first place and then not "completely" owning the problem.
- Celebrity Cruise Lines look bad as they did not contribute to the solution other than allowing Joystar to rebate. But potential cruisers now wonder how serious Celebrity is about retaining qualified people to represent their product.
- Travel agencies in general look bad because of another bad egg.
This is a perfect example of why the "travel agency in a box" is a bad, bad idea. There is a lot more to selling travel than having a website, some company created credentials, and an easily purchased CLIA card. At some point, this industry needs to recognize and authorize professionals to represent them and eliminate the hobbyists. When a company boasts that they enrolled tens or hundreds of thousands of "agents" in a year, it should raise a red flag.
Someone showed me a government report that said in 2006, there were 102,000 travel agents. One company alone has bragged that they have created nearly 100,000 "agents" in 2007 alone! Hello? Is anyone home? How can 100,000 agents in a year begin to match the experience and professionalism of people who have bee in the business for a lot longer. How can they concentrate on selling travel and learning travel when they are pressured to recruit more people into the program? What impression are they leaving with clients? What is the impression left behind about the cruise line or tour operator, car rental agency, hotel, resort, or airline?
While the MLM business practice is shady at best, a substantial part of this blame rests squarely on the shoulders of the suppliers and the organizations that continually dole out credential cards like they are dealing a hand of 7 Card Stud. To all the vendors and to CLIA....when will you realize that prostituting out your product is probably NOT the best way to go?
In the case of this group, there are 3 things are very clear:
ReplyDelete1) The agent screwed up royaly. It appears to me the problem was the agent quoted the per person price as the per cabin price.
2) There was no quality control at Joystar to catch the problem until right before final payment.
3) The customer was someone that should have known there was something wrong, as they were shopping for price. Even after Joystar rebated $21K to the group, he was still considering suing for the rest of what he thought he should have gotten. That is just taking advantage of a bad situation, and I have no respect for people like that.
Obviously these issues are not just MLM related, as evidenced by this happening with Joystar. It could have happened with any host agency that allows new agents with little to no training operate on their own with little to no oversight. All of use were once newbies in this business. There has to be a stream of newbies to replace people that quit or retire. The key is to have a good training program in place, and to provide the necessary Quality Control oversight to ensure mistakes like this are caught and corrected early.
There are some host agencies that will go un-named here, that pretty much let people sign up the same way as the MLM companies do. The difference is there are no recruiting bonuses, no levels of people. It is simply to sign people up to sell travel and get a commission split. Some of these have no fees at all. They also have no mandatory training requirements. Not ever having booked anything through them, I don't know about their QC. However, those agencies are no better in my mind than the MLMs when it comes to the actual travel sales business. Either way, they are turning out untrained, unprofessional agents, with little to no oversight.
CLIA is not helping by providing its ID card without any production requirements. YTB has added a $1500 sales requirement. In my opinion that is way too low. A single decent cruise sale should cover that. $1500 in commissions would be better. Matching the IATAN requirement of $5000 in gross commissions would be better still. Peter Stilphen in his last newsletter printed an open leter to Terry Dale of CLIA asking him to strengthen the requirements for the CLIA card. It will be interesting to see if anything comes from that call. This is not the first time that this issue has been put to CLIA, so I don't have my hopes up.
I agree VS..there needs to be fresh blood in the industry but it needs tobe trained as you said...just putting people out there and handing them a card and a website is not the way. I got into this working in an agency answering phones and worked mny way up. There are ocmpanies out here now that let you buy your way in and that is not right for anyone--read the column.
ReplyDeleteTHe client was a jerk for sure, but I think Jon is right that an agent with some training and you are right wirth some oversight woudl have prevented this.
He makes a good popint about a conmpany putting in 100K agent wanna bees in the industry--this is a recipe for disaster
CLIA =will not say anything at all. They are too busy collecting the fees for the cards they issue. Heck issuing 100000 crds a year is a full time job in and of itself. If you math it out to an 8 hour day, CLIA churned out 48 cards per HOUR just for one company. A lot of good that does the travel venders. And at whatever they charge for the card, it is a serious cash inflow for them.
And we know that no Traditional Travel Agent has ever made a mistake. They are so perfect and knew everything about travel the first day on the job. One person makes a mistake and the whole company is bad. We can now put John at a whole new level. He is PERFECT and so is every other Traditional Agent. If we could all be so lucky.
ReplyDeleteJohn, first of all, this could happen with ANY agency. Even yours! Not just MLM. Wow, you wouldn't dare say that though. It would make you look bad. Also, you left this part out.
ReplyDelete"apparently YTB and Barry Simms did get together and YTB agreed to reimburse the money lost."
Joystar kept giving the client the runaround.
There was no runaround when the dissatisfied client dealt wih the YTB agent. YTB fully reimbursed all the money the client lost.
Yes, shame on joystar!
YTB will continue to do the right thing.
Also, for the record, if a group cruise is set up through YTB, and installment payments are to be made, it is the cruiseline who sends out the bill to the clients. If a YTB agent quits, the client still gets the bill for what is quoted to them.
Again, this is only one side to the story pertaining to Joystar. Let's take another view...
Due to the agent quitting, said supplier saw it as a way to capitalize further on the trip... thus handing the client a larger bill.
Or...
Maybe it was someone at Celebrity who quoted the agent the wrong price... who in turn reiterated it that way to the client.
These are both just speculative scenarios.
BTW... you need $2500 in sales in YTB to qualify for your CLIA card.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the client is the one who misunderstood that the price quoted was per pax and not per cabin.
ReplyDeleteAgain, this news is not covering the whole story, and we may never know the other side.
Proud--not sure why you decided to bring YTB into the fold here..probably to say it is an anti YTB thread no doubt.But since you did....
ReplyDeleteIt is possible to happen in any agency--you are right. But, I doubt that it would have happened in my office or in most other TTA offices. We have quality control and we check things out. We have people that know what is what. An agent with ANY experience at all would KNOW that $50 a day on Celebrity is a ridiculous number even with the greatest sale. An agent with experience would have known about the non-rebating policies of Celebrity. You even doubted that commission checks could have commas in them--so I have to wonder how much you really do know about what you sell. And a professional agent would have had some courage and advised the client that there was a mistake.
On the Barry Simms thing...the ONLY reason that YTB stepped up to the plate was that it was going to air. They refused his calls for weeks and only when it was scheduled to air did they call. They called 2 days before airing. So Joystar does not have a monopoly on giving the runaround.
THe client was a slime and I am sure he knew it was a mistake and capitalized on it. That is wrong. But the agent that joined Joystar to "be a travel agent" had zero to lose. Maybe he or she had spent $500 for the agency in a box or maybe joined for free. But regardless, there was no investment in the career or the future--otherwise, why run and hide?
I am a new RTA and Proud To Be YTB is correct, it takes $2500 in sales for a CLIA card but only $1500 for the CRTA card.
ReplyDeleteI joined in January and bought a trip for my family with Apple Tours to Mexico for spring break and it covered my CRTA Card and my CLIA Card requirement for sales. Now I have to take the half day training class and they will give me the CLIA Card, but I do have my CRTA card and that should also work fine.
Proud - I've seen the requirement posted by others as $1500 in sales. If it is $2500, that's fine. I still think that is way too low. It should be $2500 in commissions, not sales.
ReplyDeleteProud--look how foolish that last statement was. If the client misread a statement or an invoice and it was clear that he misread it...do you think Joystar would have coughed up $21K for it?
ReplyDeleteWe know most of the story--we will never know if the client KNEW it was a mistake. We will never know exactly HOW the agent arrived at the price because she is a coward and ran. But we DO know the quoted price from Celebrity, we DO know the price quoted by the agent, we DO know that it ended up costing Joystar $21K to resolve it, and we DO know that the client is still seeking legal recourse.
We also know that had their been a QC program in place, proper training in travel and business practices, and perhaps someone looking over the shoulder of a newbie--it would not have happened.
I am not sure how serious the agent was in Joystar, but when you are dealing with a transaction worth more than $100K, you had better be serious about selling travel and not about selling the downline!
John,
ReplyDeleteI am glad that you have quality controls in your company. So, too does YTB and even JOystar but you wouldn't know it from the story.
However, in the last year alone, there have been many news stories about TTAs ripping off and even stealing from their customers.
It would be intellectually dishonest of me to think that "well that must be what all TTAs do". Stop painting with such a broad brush as it really diminishes your arguments to the open minded.
What the hell is a CRTA card, and what supplier in the industry recognizes this as valid. Or is it one of those cards thats deceiving and looks like an IATAN card?.
ReplyDeleteHow do you have your CLIA requirements, booking a land package to mexico is not a cruise? Shouldn't that be $2500 in cruise sales?
Anonymous--well, I venture to say that whatever QC Joystar has, it failed. I think it is obvious and does not need to be pointed out.
ReplyDeleteThe story and post is not about ripping off clients. It is about an untrained person making a huge mistake. Mistakes happen, but usually not of this magnitude. Had this been a WN ticket it is a non-event. But the fact that it was large enough to DOUBLE what was promised brings a valid point to the surface.
Ripping off and stealing from client--yes it happens. It happens all too often and you can contact EAB and he can provide links to cases dating back to the 1930s. It sucks that it happens and believe it or not it will continue to happen. But the TTAs are not alone in that. It happens with the RTAs as well. There is a former RTA right now running around Baltimore with about $15K of someone else's money.
Really? What do you think you are getting with your CRTA Card? Hope they haven't told you that this will get you TA discounts, etc. ... it will not.
ReplyDeleteBack to the subject at hand - sure this could happen in an Agency, but I bet it would not. A group this large being handled by a "new" Agent would have been monitored very closely and that ridiculous "quote" would have been caught before it was made.
I think the "Agent" not only quoted "per person" but quoted the cruise rate before NCFs, taxes/port, and commission. All because she had no training and was lead to believe that this is a very, very easy job. But again, it's not only unlikely that such a large group would have been misquoted by a real Travel Agent or in a B&M setting, it is HIGHLY unlikely that a brand new Agent would have been handling a group of any size, let alone this one.
As for the Client - you kow what? I can't blame him/them. They were quoted one price and were not advised of the error until much later. Here's an analogy - my husband and I (when we were engaged) picked out a lovely estate piece for his wedding ring. Got a great price and the jeweller sent it out to be sized. She called me two weeks later to say the ring was ready but that she wanted $2k more for it!!! What?! Well, when she sent it out for sizing, the Gentleman doing the work noticed that it had a Louis Tiffany stamp in it (we already knew the ring was from the 19th century, as did she, but we didn't notice the stamp). She was trying to tell me that she would never have sold such a valuable antique had she realized it! Well, "too bad, I have a receipt that states 'paid in full' and you'll have to produce that ring. I'll be by to pick it up this afternoon." She did not fight me on this - how could she? (But I do have to say that I insisted she show me the stamp so that I could be sure it was the same ring.) You can't sell something and then "realize" you've made a mistake - that's misrepresentation. Joystar had to step up to the plate on this and frankly, CEL should have helped them out - afterall they were getting a lot of berths and thus a lot of on-board spending.
CTA in MD
A CRTA card is the Industry ID Card issued by YTB when you join. Well it was issued when you join, but since January, you need to have $1500 in sales to qualify and then they send out cards to you and one other person. You get two with the program. It is good for discounts and upgrades with airlines, car rentals and hotels. I am going to use it to upgrade when we go to Mexico with Apple Tours. We send in our pictures and they put our picture on the card along with the CLIA number and our RTA number.
ReplyDeleteTo get the CLIA card, we need to have $2500 in sales of travel, not just cruise sales since the CLIA card is accepted by travel companies that are not cruise ships too you know. YTB certifies that you have sold $2500 (my Apple Tours trip was around $2700)and you send a check or credit card and another photo into YTB and they take care of the rest.
Once I have the CLIA card, a lot more opportunities will open for me.
John,
ReplyDeletethis sums it up as to why Joystar paid the client off...
One satisfied client can boost your business.
One dissatisfied client could be the end of it.
Think about it. It's not rocket science.
Well if you read the column, the client is not satisfied, so there likely is a Chapter 2 to this.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I am not in the habit of paying anyone off---client or otherwise, but if that is working for you--good luck with that!
So you get a CRTA card that supposed to give you discounts with airlines/hotels/cars? What vendors take this? Your going to upgrade what in Mexico, the hotel, the air? LOL. Thats what IATAN is..making up a fake card just for YTB to use instead.
ReplyDeleteMy question is this..now that you have these awesome credentials, do you still plan on booking travel..or is your work now done?
And yes I know that CLIA is accepted by many. Disappointed that CLIA doesnt have higher standards for getting one.
I also find it hilarious that John doesn't know the difference between a quote and an invoice... LOL!!!
ReplyDeleteJohn, the agent "quoted" the price to the client.
What the client received in the mail is the "invoice".
Was the client talking to the agent over the phone about the quote? Most likely. Therefore, the client was the one writing down the information as the agent was telling it. The agent probably told the client it was per person, and not being cruise savvy, thought it was per cabin. Things like this would be easy for a rookie cruiser to misunderstand.
John, I forgot that your agency is totally perfect!
John just because it doesn't happen in your agency, it can... and does happen in other traditional agencies around the world.
Those who think they are perfect... just happen to be the most imperfect people in the world!
The CRTA card is issued by YTB, not IATAN (we do not use IATAN any longer) but because of our buying power, we are given all sorts of discounts and priviledges. With the card, we are usually upgraded on airlines, hotels and car rentals. Cruise lines will give us gifts and gift certificates to spend on their ships and on shore trips. The CLIA Card does the same thing but more. I know that any upgrades are not garanteed but they are happening all the time.
ReplyDeleteI plan to recruit more people in my power team and sell what travel I can. I am employed at a regular job and see no sense in quitting now. I want my site to be free so the only cost to me is the initial fee and then I will sell travel to whoever wants to buy from me.
As this post goes, I am not planning on becoming involved with people on this level. If they go to my site they can book. If they need people to make it work, they can go to a store travel agency. I will take training to get my credentials, but to be honest I do not want the risk with dealing with people one on one like this Joystar person did. If they book it themselves, I am out of the picture but I also make a commission.
Happy - You sure took a big swig of the kool-aid didn't you? Please note that YTB did not choose to not use IATAN anymore, IATA threw YTB out.
ReplyDeleteYou said, "With the card, we are usually upgraded on airlines, hotels and car rentals. Cruise lines will give us gifts and gift certificates to spend on their ships and on shore trips. The CLIA Card does the same thing but more."
Have you ever attempted to use the CRTA card to get these perks, or are you just quoting what you have been told? As for the CLIA card, I used to have one, but stopped paying for it, as it didn't do anything for me anyway. The airlines sure don't care to give upgrades for free (unless you are elite, platinum, super-secret member of the frequent flier plan). The cruise-lines don't give free upgrades for having a CLIA card. They may allow reduced rate travel, but typically you need to show some productivity. Even Carnival now demands that you have sold 5 cabins within the last 12 months to get the reduced rate. The CLIA card alone doesn't cut it.
If you joined YTB simply for the travel perks and to sell cruises by the few people that find your site, boy are you in for a rude awaking.
Basically what I thought..thank you for taking the time to answer and answer honestly.
ReplyDeleteJoining YTB for you was about the perks, and building your downline, and "IF" people want to book on your site they can, but you do not want to assist in any way. Understood.!
Lisa, at least "happy" is striving to get clients to use her website... and not just to use it for herself to book her own travel. She is doing absolutely nothing wrong by the decision she is making. She is still very new to YTB, and until she does get trained on dealing directly with clients, it is best for her to go about the buiness this way. After she gets trained, she may change her mind and find that she may want to deal directly with clients as I do.
ReplyDeleteWelcome to YTB Happy, and keep up the great work!
I have not persoanally traveled anywhere yet to use my CRTA Card, but I know plenty of people in YTB that do and it does work.
ReplyDeleteTravelingLisa, I am not looking for a career--if it happens great, but for now, I am looking for a part time income --people booking on my site, and if there are some benefits to being in the industry, why would I not take advantage of those when they are offered. I know they are not garanteed.
I am allergic to lawsuits LOL LOL LOL LOL and really don't want to be in a position where I can be sued or even have someone come back to me saying I am at a fault. If there is a mistake on the website, the customer made it or maybe the people at YTB that build the sites made it, but i did not.
I don't think it is wrong to operate like that. why be risky when you don't need to?
Proud, do you even know how clients are billed for their trips? You wrote --
ReplyDeleteAlso, for the record, if a group cruise is set up through YTB, and installment payments are to be made, it is the cruiseline who sends out the bill to the clients. If a YTB agent quits, the client still gets the bill for what is quoted to them.
Cruise lines do not bill clients directly unless they book directly with the cruise line. Isn't your billing handled by ytb corporate? I can't imagine any agent not knowing how clients are billed. And in my wildest nightmares I can't for the life of me think about depending on the cruise lines to do this for agents.
How much do you really know about this industry?
She just said she booked her and her familys trip on her own website. So she booked 1 trip for herself and her family, hit the sales mark that YTB/CLIA imposes (which should not include personal travel), and is now a travel agent?
ReplyDeleteShe just stated that shes not in this for the career or to help anyone, just for extra income.
Personal Travel for yourself does not count towards the $1500 and the $2500 requirement. This is a fact!!! It has to be someone other than you own travel.
ReplyDelete"I joined in January and bought a trip for my family with Apple Tours to Mexico for spring break and it covered my CRTA Card and my CLIA Card requirement for sales"
ReplyDeleteOh, so booking a trip for yourself qualifies you for a CLIA card and makes you a travel agent?? Does anyone else thinks that's a problem?
"I am not looking for a career--if it happens great, but for now, I am looking for a part time income --people booking on my site, and if there are some benefits to being in the industry, why would I not take advantage of those when they are offered"
Typical YTBer. I want all of the perks while sitting on my ass not doing any of the work or doing anything to enhance the industry. Nice. Just what the industry needs.
The travel was not booked in my name. Yes, I am going, but my family is also going and they represent much more of the booking than I do. I also did not travel with a discounted rate, so it does count as sales.
ReplyDelete"A CRTA card is the Industry ID Card issued by YTB when you join."
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely wrong - you are getting and "Industry ID" - it is not recognized by any Vendor as an indicator that you are a real Travel Agent - it is more like an "Employee ID" - it only indicates that you have bought into YTB. Sadly, you will be laughed at if you try to use it just about anywhere - please, please, try to get an "industry rate" from a hotel with that - you will be very disappointed. And if YTB told you it is worth anything, then you simply were lied to. Now you might get some discounts using your CLIA card - when you get that.
TravelLisa said...
ReplyDelete"Joining YTB for you was about the perks, and building your downline, and "IF" people want to book on your site they can, but you do not want to assist in any way. Understood.!"
TravelLisa thinks it should be her way or the highway. What's wrong with some perks? Hey, look what the Bureau of Labor Statistics, U.S. Department of Labor has to say about travel agent perks.
Travel benefits, such as reduced rates for transportation and lodging, attract people to this occupation.
Of course, only TravelLisa deserves these "perks" since she claims to be a 20 year industry expert. There is no room for one newbie Happy New RTA to enjoy these same perks.
Also, TravelLisa thinks it's a sin to have a site similar to Expedia and let folks book their own travel unassisted. Pointing friends and family to your site makes her "mad", "pissed", just to use a few of her words. lol!
Oh..then she will bring up how much experience she has and how untrained everyone else is ad nauseam. TravelLisa will upchucks the same crap every day.
Once again, a jealous TTA raises it's ugly head just like a snake laying in wait going for the strike.
Welcome Happy New RTA to YTB!
olescorekeeper
ReplyDeleteYes, I do know how a client is billed for group cruises.
ReplyDeleteWho notifies you that your client had a payment due? THE CRUISE-LINE! they notify you, and you notify the clients.
The same goes with YTB. The Cruise-line notifies YTB who.. in turn notifies the client. The client pays the installment... which goes to the cruise-line. When al installments are paid, and the cruise is taken, the cruise-line sends out a commission to YTB... who in turn gives 60% to the RTAs.
"Proud to be YTB said...
ReplyDeleteJohn,
this sums it up as to why Joystar paid the client off...
One satisfied client can boost your business.
One dissatisfied client could be the end of it."
You are ridiculous - that client will never, ever use any kind of TA again - not an RTA or a real Agent. AND he will not stop talking about it to whomever will listen. He remains dissatisfied. Joystar paid up because the quote was made by someone representing herself as a Joystar Agent and therefore, Joystar is responsible.
If I screwed up like that and disappeared, my employer would be responsible. End of story.
Indeed, it's not rocket science.
CTA in MD
How disingenuoous can you be Proud - either you think that the cruise line bills the client directly as you posted above, or you think that the statements go to the agent? Which is it?
ReplyDeleteThe only time a Consumer will recieve will recieve statements is if s/he booked the him/herself or a group directly with the cruise line. If the cruise line has YTB's CLIA number int he booking and is paying commissions, then all statements go to the YTB RTA. What's more, the client does not pay the cruise line directly - it is called in or posted on-line by YTB.
As for your ridiculous quibbling on "quote" vs. "invoice" - it is very obvious that this client received a quote - possibly in writing and received and invoice after deposit with the incorrect balance due amount on it. You really are silly, Proud.
And Newbie - I love this:
"The CRTA card is issued by YTB, not IATAN (we do not use IATAN any longer) but because of our buying power"
Perhaps you are unaware the IATAN booted YTB out? It's not that you don't "use" IATAN, it's that you are NOT ALLOWED to use it because of misuse. AND coach et. al. were very upset when it happened and vowed to get reinstated because the recognize the importance of having that card for their members - if they want most (like 95%) of the discounts/FAMs available to real Travel Agents.
You poor thing, if you joined for those perks, you will find that you'll get few of them.
As for FAMs - you can't take real ones based on your CRTA card - but YTB books group space on cruises and sells it to you at a discount and calls that a FAM - Vendors won't give you FAMS, nor will the various Tourist Boards. Oh, and real FAMS don't include your family as "go-alongs" - FAMs are work, not vacations.
CTA in MD
For a really rude awakening Happy - I am a traditional TA - my agency is a full member of CLIA and I use the CLIA number for my bookings - while the CLIA card is accepted by many vendors to place bookings with them, it is NOT accepted by the same vendors for discounts.
ReplyDeleteI can count on one hand the number of times I've been able to actually get the discounts you think you will.
Just steering this back in the right direction--this post is about lack of training and unprofessionalism. We already have hashed over the credential issues and may revisit it---but let the new RTA go on about the discounts and so forth. I hope that he or she decides to get some real training because that is what woudl have prevented this fiasco with Joystar in the first place.
ReplyDeleteAnd Proud---why did you have to turn this thread in to a YTB thread anyhow?
I didn't. Vacation stop did in the very first reply to the topic. Thank you very much.
ReplyDeleteThe vacation stop said...
CLIA is not helping by providing its ID card without any production requirements. YTB has added a $1500 sales requirement. In my opinion that is way too low. A single decent cruise sale should cover that. $1500 in commissions would be better. Matching the IATAN requirement of $5000 in gross commissions would be better still.
John said, "And Proud---why did you have to turn this thread in to a YTB thread anyhow?"
ReplyDeleteI believe it was you who made the first indirect reference to YTB by saying...
"Like the group that got the shaft from another untrained agent (referring to a YTB agnet in Baltimore.."
Poor John. I think he get's a little brain-fogged from bouncing around the TW forum and other blogs. ;>)
ReplyDeleteolescorekeeper
Proud said, "I didn't. Vacation stop did in the very first reply to the topic. Thank you very much."
ReplyDeleteOh come on, give me a break. My whole long comment was about training, production requirements and the like. My mentioning YTB was actually a credit to them, not a cut. Creating a threshold is a good thing. I just think they set the threshold too low. That can be fixed. At least they have one. CLIA itself does not.
I went out of my way not to bash YTB, especially since the original posting was about Joystar and a untrained agent. Claiming that I turned it into a YTB thread is a long stretch. I think you need to place blame elsewhere.
Ole,
ReplyDeleteOnce again you start with the name calling and acting childish. I did not say one bad thing to the newbie, I actually thanked for being honest.
I didn't join this industry for the perks, and I could probably count on 1 hand the amount of times in 20 years I've even used or tried to use them. I do this job because its what I like to do. I think I've said this many times. I am not "pissed" or "mad" that she thinks shes going to be able to use the FAKE card YTB gives out, but I do think its misleading. They think they are going to get anything with them? Its not an IATAN card which is what is used for such discounts (and CLIA for some vendors). I think shes in for a big surprise when she does try, and thats the sad thing..because she was probably mis-lead into thinking she could.
As I've stated over and over, I do not care if people go online and point and click..power to you. But that does not make you a travel agent..in any shape or form. Being a travel agent means you should be there to assist your client before, during and after with any situations that arise. Clearly she doesn't want to do this, as stated above.
Don't assume to know me, you know nothing about me. I'm tired of the petty name calling and childish banter that goes on and on. Tom's BS behavior, and the accusations of us going under ANON to post "fake" RTA info. Really its ridiculous. If you don't like our point of view on the subject, you really don't have to come here. Click the little x on the top right hand corner of the screen. John can I use your wall, I'm about ready to start banging my head now.
Boy I'd like to be a fly on the wall when Happy tries to get upgraded with her YTB card. Good luck with that one. If you're looking to make an ass out of yourself go right ahead. Ask for a first class seat on a flight and see what you get.
ReplyDelete*Sigh* I am a supplier. We absolutely do not recognize any CRTA card as an industry card. I don't know any supplier that does.
ReplyDeleteAndrew---from a supplier POV, what is your take on this post and the article and so forth?
ReplyDeleteTravelLisa said...
ReplyDelete"Ole,
Once again you start with the name calling and acting childish."
Name calling? I took a look at my post and I could not find any "name calling". I think your a bit confused.
"I did not say one bad thing to the newbie, I actually thanked for being honest."
I agree. You were unusually polite.
"I didn't join this industry for the perks, and I could probably count on 1 hand the amount of times in 20 years I've even used or tried to use them. I do this job because its what I like to do."
Good for you! Just don't complain about some folks who are attracted by the perks whether they are TTA's or RTA's. It's a moot point.
"I think I've said this many times. I am not "pissed" or "mad" that she thinks she's going to be able to use the FAKE card YTB gives out, but I do think its misleading." They think they are going to get anything with them? Its not an IATAN card which is what is used for such discounts (and CLIA for some vendors)."
First of all the card is not "FAKE". Second, none of my folks believe it has some magical powers for perks or has some relationship to IATAN. It's just an ID card that an RTA had met certain criteria in order to possess one.
"I think she's in for a big surprise when she does try, and that's the sad thing..because she was probably mis-lead into thinking she could."
You started with, "I think.." which means you are not positive. I had an RTA who displayed her card at a resort hotel and, while no discount rate was given, she did receive an upgrade to a luxury suite. That was a very nice big surprise. We have many examples of this at our meetings that I could go on and on about.
"As I've stated over and over, I do not care if people go online and point and click..power to you. But that does not make you a travel agent..in any shape or form."
It makes us a Referring Travel Agent. I know you don't like the word "agent" in the title. I believe this strikes that little nerve in your head therefore explaining where your jealously comes from.
"Being a travel agent means you should be there to assist your client before, during and after with any situations that arise."
And I'll bet you do this 24/7. Good for you Lisa.
"Clearly she doesn't want to do this, as stated above."
Nothing wrong with that. She's an Expedia minus the appearance of a faceless corporation . Good for her!
"Don't assume to know me, you know nothing about me."
And the olescorekeeper prefers to keep it that way.
"I'm tired of the petty name calling and childish banter that goes on and on."
Then I would advise you to review some of your previous post's and strive to make some changes that would bring respect and appreciation for your future comments.
"If you don't like our point of view on the subject, you really don't have to come here. Click the little x on the top right hand corner of the screen."
Actually I appreciate your point of view however misguided and wrong you usually are.
"John can I use your wall, I'm about ready to start banging my head now."
Oh please TravelLisa!!! Don't do that! It will only make things worse for you! ;>)
olescorekeeper
Arn't referring agents like Happy the ones that put the spotlight on YTB in the first place? It's Happy, and his/her ilk, that give those members of YTB that WANT to make it in the industry look so bad. And then to boast on an anti travel-mlm blog so all the world can see and get a good idea of what YTB is really all about? I hope he/she s flying American. They are so generous with the TA upgrades.
ReplyDeleteSo what are you RTAs going to do about assisting your clients in regards to the ice storm tonight and all day tomorrow on the East Coast? Please don't tell me you expect the airlines to assist them!?
ReplyDeleteLOL that was pretty funny. I've been sitting here re-accomodating passengers and doing exchanges all afternoon. The airlines have yet to assist with majority of them, and the few they have, have been put on the worst possible flights.
ReplyDeleteYTB Vendors Phone List
ReplyDeleteAir - Domestic 877-657-4874
Air - International Flight Search 800-243-4450 #3 for Travel
Exactly - the airlines, in anticipation are already cancelling most of the AM flights - at least the earliest ones - I have been reaccomodating clients on late morning/afternoon flights all day long.
ReplyDeleteDo any YTB RTAs know if they have clients on cancelled flights? Do the clients know? Mine all do.
So they send their air problems to a 24 hour service?! Laughable! Tomorrow, they'll be on hold for 45 minutes just to get through to someone and it will be too late anyway.....
CTA in MD
"I had an RTA who displayed her card at a resort hotel and, while no discount rate was given, she did receive an upgrade to a luxury suite. That was a very nice big surprise. We have many examples of this at our meetings that I could go on and on about."
ReplyDeleteBig deal,,,I have a Priority Club card from Intercontinental Hotels and get upgraded to a suite more often than not. I don't even have to ask and it didn't cost a dime.
"Big deal,,,I have a Priority Club card from Intercontinental Hotels and get upgraded to a suite more often than not. I don't even have to ask and it didn't cost a dime."
ReplyDeleteGood for you Jack!
olescorekeeper
I've also asked desk clerks if there were any discounts available for YTB members...and was flatly told "No IATA, no discount".
ReplyDeleteNot so good for you, Jack.
You might as well flash a Pokemon card instead of the OFFICIAL YTB RTA card for all the respect it gets you.
iontop said...
ReplyDelete"I've also asked desk clerks if there were any discounts available for YTB members...and was flatly told "No IATA, no discount".
Hey top, stop asking desk clerks at Motel 6. Bump it up a few notches. lol!
"You might as well flash a Pokemon card.."
I guess you should know all about that ontop. Didn't the desk clerk at the "6" give you the Royal Bed Bug Suite? Try flash'n your IATA next time. Your really a hoot. ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
New RTA said, "I joined in January and bought a trip for my family with Apple Tours to Mexico for spring break and it covered my CRTA Card and my CLIA Card requirement for sales. Now I have to take the half day training class and they will give me the CLIA Card, but I do have my CRTA card and that should also work fine."
ReplyDeleteFirst of all New RTA my agency does not recognize travel for myself or family as a legitimate sales.
Secondly, it is Apple VACATIONS not tours. Even a novice agent knows that.
Just goes to show you the quality and caliber of people YTB is recruiting.
olescorekeeper
ReplyDelete"I do not want the risk with dealing with people one on one like this Joystar person did. If they book it themselves, I am out of the picture but I also make a commission." Quoted from a New RTA YTB Agent.
ReplyDeleteSuppliers please take note, YTB is recruiting agents who do not want to deal with people. Why are they even selling travel then? Why are you continually supporting them? This attitude is all too typical of YTB.
You must have me confused with one of your Carnival cruisers,,,the last time I was at a cheap hotel was for the YTB recruitment meeting.
ReplyDeleteRight back to day one. The hell with the customer, the hell with the supplier. It's ALL about ME. That's what happy is all about. Proud, Doug and LB are cool with that. I think it stinks.
ReplyDeleteHaving spent some time on this blog I feel I know Doug and Proud a little better. Is this the YTB you are selling? Is Happy someone you want to represent you? Do you see , at all, why I resent his/her approach to the responsibility that acting as someones agent and advocate is not a 'me' position? Want to get out of scam.com, close down this blog?
You know how.
Why can't YTB be a legitimate host?
iontop said...
ReplyDelete",,,the last time I was at a cheap hotel was for the YTB recruitment meeting."
And, how about all the times before that? ;>)
olescorekeeper
"I joined in January and bought a trip for my family with Apple Tours to Mexico for spring break and it covered my CRTA Card and my CLIA Card requirement for sales. Now I have to take the half day training class and they will give me the CLIA Card, but I do have my CRTA card and that should also work fine."
ReplyDeleteUmmm, don't you have to sell CRUISES to get your CLIA requirements? You have absolutely NO BUSINESS selling travel lady because you are ignorant of the business and you are NOT willing to learn. Go sell Mary Kay and stay the hell away from travel you idiot!
No you do not need to sell cruises only. YTB sells all types of travel as well as other products. So my travel sales count to my CLIA requirement. I do have to take a CLIA half day training course too and there is a cost to do that.
ReplyDeleteScoreboard
ReplyDeleteGetting a card that WILL get you upgrades and free rooms-
Iontop - 1 Olescorekeeper - 0
Snappy comebacks-
Iontop - 2 Olescorekeeper - 0
Happy:
ReplyDeleteCongratulations to you on learning to work the system,,,you should probably check previous threads here to learn how to beat YTB out of their cut of travel commissions.
Can you cut and paste your YTB backoffice commission page here so we can see what one looks like?
New RTA as I stated you are ignorant of the travel business now go sell Mary Kay like a good little girl....
ReplyDeleteSomeone asked:
ReplyDelete"Ummm, don't you have to sell CRUISES to get your CLIA requirements?"
A Happy New RTA said...
"No you do not need to sell cruises only. YTB sells all types of travel as well as other products."
Did you not understand the questions? Do you know what the initials CLIA stand for? Do you think an Apple Vacation counts towards CLIA?
From what I understand CLIA has NO travel sales requirement. Only training, being under a member agency, and paying the fee.
ReplyDeleteAlso, CLIA cards have become the de facto IATAN cards so even if they did have a sales requirement, I would suggest that it did not need to be cruises.
So is the $2500 in sales for the CLIA card a YTB requirement?
To be honest, until I looked today, I always thought there was a sales or commission requirement from CLIA, but I could not find it if there is.
CLIA has no sales requirement for their card. Many of us would like that to change.
ReplyDeleteYTB has imposed a $2500 sales requirement before it will sponsor a member for a CLIA card. That is a step in the right direction. In my opinion $2500 in commissions would be better.
A number of host agencies have a requirement to sell a certain number of cruise cabins before they will sponsor an agent. Others don't.
If CLIA would just raise the requirements, then it would be more uniform.
Yes, an Apple booking will count towards the CLIA.
ReplyDeleteProud to be YTB said...
ReplyDeleteYes, an Apple booking will count towards the CLIA.
Which is exactly why I did not renew my CLIA membership. What's the point of having it when they have no standards and it doesn't mean a darn thing anymore.
Travel Temptress
If you're not going to renew your CLIA Temptress, then that's your decision. I'm sorry you feel that way.
ReplyDeleteGeez - this thread has become boring - somebody start another one . . .
ReplyDeleteTom
Then just let it go Tommy The Insurance Man!
ReplyDeleteNo one commented on it for two days!