Monday, February 18, 2008

Another Opinion On MLM


I am always glad when I realize that it is not just me. I discovered this very recent analysis of MLM over the weekend. Rather than link to it, I am including the entire text. as I feel it important to read. This piece has touched on most of the points I have been talking about for months and it appears that the author and I are in agreement. But I am sure all of the anonymous posters from the MLM side will say, "oh, but that's not us."

Multilevel Marketing: The Fundamental Truth

Amauri DaRocha / February, 2007

What is the fundamental difference between multilevel marketing and traditional business models?

The truth is that traditional business models and multilevel marketing share a lot in common. However, there is one fundamental difference and it is the root cause of controversy surrounding multilevel marketing companies.

The most widely held assumption about the difference is that multilevel marketing companies encourage their sales representatives to recruit additional sales representatives (downline) and are paid commissions from their downline. Thus, as recruits get new members to join their downline, and their downline recruits get their own downline, the levels continues to grow and, a pyramid structure is formed.

However, recruiting is not, in and of itself, the fundamental difference. In fact, most sales organizations have managers that profit from the efforts of their sales team. And these managers are also responsible for recruiting sales agents that will help them increase their profits. And those managers have managers above them that are paid based on their performance too. In fact, most companies are based on a pyramid structure, that rewards individuals based on the performance of those people recruited, from the CEO on down. So how can getting paid for recruiting be the fundamental difference?

All companies that grow must recruit. However, most companies recruit upward, where as multilevel marketing recruits outward. Let us use a hypothetical example to help illustrate the point. In this example, we have Mark who just graduated from high school and started working at Best Buy as a customer service representative. If Best Buy used the multilevel marketing model, than Mark would be encouraged to start recruiting his downline (other customer service reps) before he ever finished his paperwork with HR. Even though Mark is not a proven salesmen, a proven recruiter, or a proven manager — three skills sets Mark must possess in order to be successful.

Now, in the real world, if Mark was hired at Best Buy, he would have to prove himself as a good customer service rep and leader, before he would ever be promoted into a management position. Only than would he be responsible for hiring new customer service reps. Why? Because traditional companies absorb a significant part of the cost to develop their employees into assets. This forces them to be efficient in their recruiting process, because they can not afford to hire millions of deadbeats in order to find one diamond in the rough.

Multilevel marketing companies, on the other hand, do not worry about having an efficient recruiting process, because they are not absorbing the cost for developing employees into assets. That burden is placed on the employee (sales representative), and often times to the benefit of the company. Millions of deadbeats are recruited who they know do not have the necessary skill set to be successful. Why? Because they are structured to generate revenues from the recruiting process (recruiting for recruiting’s sake). Thus, they recruit outwards — trying to suck in as many warm bodies as possible, with the expectation that only a few will actually stick.

Here’s why this model naturally creates controversy.

Profiting From the Misfortune of Others

“And that's the trouble with multilevel marketing. You make money on your ability to use people. Once you sign on, you hardly have a choice. Not that you want anyone to fail, but you can't hit the jackpot unless you build the network, and that means signing up as many recruits as possible — most of whom have no chance of making the grade.

http://www.inc.com/magazine/19980601/941_pagen_2.html

Many multilevel marketing companies are perceived as being leaches, because they are structured to profit on the misfortune of others. Not that they want people to fail, but it’s inevitable. Let’s face it; the great majority of people in the world are not cutout to be good salesmen. Just like the millions of people who tryout for American Idol, who will never make it because they just can’t sing worth a lick. Being a good salesmen is hard — it’s not for the faint of heart. Which is why the great majority of people are destined to fail in multilevel marketing. And while the companies know this will happen, they continue to churn-and-burn through new recruits in order to maintain their growth.

Additional controversy surrounds those companies who also profit by selling their representatives motivational tapes, books, and seminars. They use the rationale that anyone can be successful if they just know how. And anyone can know how, if they just pay to learn. This is a false promise, because most people will never be good salesmen, no matter how much training they receive. It is nothing more than another way for the company to profit from the misfortunes of their recruits.

Bad Customer Service

Imagine going into Starbucks to get your morning cappuccino. But instead of getting the very knowledgeable and friendly barista who greets you every morning, you get an ex-convict with the customer service skills of a chimpanzee. After making a complete mess of your cappuccino you ask to speak with his supervisor. When the store manager comes out, you discover the manager has only been working at Starbucks for a couple of weeks and hasn’t a clue on how to run the register, offer you a comp card, or even how to fire the chimpanzee he just hired last night. Needless to say, if Starbucks hired and promoted as freely as multilevel marketing companies do, they would have a severe reputation problem when it comes to customer service.

Unfortunately for consumers, most products and services being sold through multilevel marketing are significantly more complicated than coffee. Now imagine a 70 year old salesmen who has never turned on a computer trying to sell you the latest Dell notebook. How effective will he been in satisfying your needs as a consumer? How many Pre-Paid Legal sales reps have more than a basic knowledge of the legal system? How many Herbalife sales reps have backgrounds in nutrition?

Misleading Customers

When someone lacks the necessary knowledge to sell a product or business opportunity, they will naturally fill in the holes when put on the spot with something that sounds good, but is often unrealistic or simply not true. It’s hard to sell something with “I don’t know.” But that is the unfortunate reality most sales representatives face in multilevel marketing.

And the problem is not only caused by ignorance related to the product or business opportunity. Most traditional companies — especially post Sarbanes-Oxley — ensure their employees are being trained on ethical behavior. While this does not eliminate unethical behavior, it does help prevent it. In multilevel marketing companies, ethical behavior goes unchecked. So even when people have knowledge about the product or business opportunity, they do not have the ethical integrity to stop themselves from misleading consumers.

Misleading Recruits

Would you accept a job offer from a company if you knew you didn’t have the skills necessary to be successful, and you would likely be fired within a few months? Most people wouldn’t. But that’s the reality of multilevel marketing. And when coupled with the need to churn-and-burn through mass numbers of new recruits, multilevel marketing companies are left with few options other than to mislead potential recruits into believing they will be successful. How do they do it?

Most people are not just money motivated, but are money ‘desperate’d — and as such, they can be easy targets for people selling the “dream”. Who wouldn’t want to make more money while working less? It’s a completely legitimate pursuit. However, multilevel marketing opportunities will rarely “make-good” on this promise. No matter how hard you try to change the laws of economics, it’s just not as easy as they want you to believe. And if you are having problems seeing this, ask them what percentage of representatives are successful. The numbers will not lie.

In fact, the only way multilevel marketing companies can make you believe you’ll be successful, is to keep you focused on the dream and not the facts. They’ll bring in a highly charismatic speaker, and just like your church minister, he’ll have you laughing, clapping your hands, and stomping your feet. But at the end of this highly entertaining and motivating presentation, little will have been said about specific details on how to make it work. They oversell the dream and undersell the business plan. Next, they’ll bring up a bunch of people to give testimonials on how successful they’ve been. Why? Because, testimonials are an easy substitute for real statistical facts. Testimonial is only the truth of one person, whereas statistics are the truth of everyone. If I bring in 10 people to tell you how much they love a product, you’ll start to believe that product is the best thing ever. But when I tell you those are the only 10 people out of 100 that love the product, you’ll know that product is worthless. Testimonials are the equivalent to fools gold in multilevel marketing.

Paying a High Social Price

An old proverb says to avoid mixing business with pleasure. Why? Because personal relationships (friends and family) are typically not built to endure the trials and tribulations of the business world. This is never more true than when you are an unqualified salesmen trying to sell your friends and family the dream. They will either resent you for trying to involve them in a scam, or they will blindly follow you into an opportunity that is destined to fail. And at the end of the day, you may have paid the price for your failures by burning bridges.

Conclusion

Multilevel marketing is a legitimate and legal business model. It has been proven successful by a number of companies in a variety of industries. And, like any business model, those people who are qualified, passionate, and determined will be successful. However, the great majority of people are not. The question you must ask yourself is, “are you one of those people?” Or are you just so infatuated with the dream, that you’ll allow yourself to believe anything?

This article may be used in it’s entirety as website content as long as it includes the following reference to http://www.mlm-alert.com

42 comments:

  1. Great article. Just a piece of info. I had to call an agent who made a booking with us about the booking... she was YTB and her voicemail was all about "free perks for your travel" and "get discounted travel." *sigh*

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  2. How completely unprofessional. Just goes to show that selling the business instead of actually selling travel is priority #1.

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  3. Unfortunately, all the YTBers will say it is not so. They don';t do that. No way!

    Why not post the number and we can take a listen for ourselves or maybe record it and send it to Jon and he can put it on here

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  4. Keep in mindm that this whole aticle is just an opinion... as John clearly stated.

    Also, I'm quite sure you decided to just not pay too much attention to this line in the article:

    "Multilevel marketing is a legitimate and legal business model. It has been proven successful by a number of companies in a variety of industries. And, like any business model, those people who are qualified, passionate, and determined will be successful."

    You may say a comment like, "Oh, they're successful because hey beat the system."

    Actually... NO! We are successful not because we beat the system. We are successful because we became a part of he system. We learned the system and how to become successful.

    There are 2 types of people in MLM. There are the ones who are qualified, passionate, and determined... and those who are just dreamers.

    The passionate focused people know that success won't come easy. We know that it takes work.

    The "dreamers" expect life handed to them on a silver platter. When they don't get what they expect, they fail miserably... and then start antagonizing the MLM model because they "didn't get rich quick".

    Now, about YTB...

    Yes, we ARE a travel company, and yes we are also network marketing. The 2 types of people also can be found in YTB, but let me assure you that the "dreamers" are becoming fewer and fewer while the ones who are passionate are joining.

    Let me explain:
    The "Dreamers" aren't booking travel. The "Dreamers" aren't building a downline, because they won't stay plugged into the "system". The "Dreamers" are destined to fail... and shouldn't have joined in the first place.

    Now, I am quite strict when it comes to my team. A few days ago, I actually had to send out an e-mail to one of my RTAs. This person has done absolutely nothing with YTB, and has not been coming to the meetings or travel trainings. Now, it disturbed me that I had to do this, but it needed to be done. I asked this person why... was your other job getting in the way? The response was "No". It turns out that this person was shy and quite introverted. I gave this person a choice to either get plugged in or leave YTB. This person left (obviously being the wrong person for the MLM model).

    Because I felt bad, I notified this person's sponsor and stated that I would be mailing out $500.00 to this person. (It's a good thing i don't use my real name heer... everyone will want a $500.00 check from me. That was a joke, of course.) I sent out the check Friday. I also plan on sitting down face to face with the sponsor and have a little chat about choosing the right prospects. Yes, this means that I have to catch a flight within the next few days.

    I believe that the performance of my downline is a direct reflection on me... just as those in my upline feel the same way. I am proud to be a part of a team... including my upline and downline that's not only successful in the network side, but also dedicated in the travel side as well.

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  5. Proud--why then does YTB attract 98% of the dreamers?

    I say that the system is flawed--it has not failed them, it is inherently flawed.

    I also think it is pretty rude of you to allude that one's "other" job should interfere with YTB. Likely, this guy was one of the 246K that earned nothing in the Rep end and probably nothing in travel. So, if YTB is not paying him...of course his other job ought to be interfering---it is putting food on the table!

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  6. And I won't even get into the whole aspect of who the hell is proud that he can say who can or cannot be in ytb. i don't think that is HIS choice. I think he was just pissed because he wasn't making any money off of this particular person.

    Proud also talks about 2 types that are in MLM. The dreamers and the passionate. In defining the passionate, he uses 3 words....determined, passionate and QUALIFIED. That is part of the problem with ytb and other travel mlm's. 98% of the people who join are not QUALIFIED in travel. They have no experience, or knowledge of how the industry TRULY works, and have no desire to learn, and I doubt 10 easy lessons are going to teach them what they really need to know (well, as it is right now, there are only 2 out there in the ytb back office).

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  7. Proud

    You forgot to put the rest of that sentence

    "However, the great majority of people are not. The question you must ask yourself is, “are you one of those people?” Or are you just so infatuated with the dream, that you’ll allow yourself to believe anything?"

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  8. John said...
    "Proud--why then does YTB attract 98% of the dreamers?"

    Probably for much of the same reason why only 5% of the US populaton makes an annual income over $100,000 per year. 95% will not do what's necessary to make that kind of money. I believe the same holds true for anyone involved in network marketing. I don't now of any "dreamers" (no action types), in any business, that make over 100K per year. I believe it does require a passionate objective to make it there.

    olescorekeeper

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  9. So John Freneye does not like MLM . . . what a revelation. Nothing is going to change his mind because he's invested in YTB negatives.

    The "traditionals" remind me of how traditional life insurance agents and financial planners loathed the A.L.Williams Company back in the 80's and early 90's. Who were these part-times agents going to my clients and telling them that the whole life policy I sold them is a bad investment? How dare they! They had no training and did not belong in the arena of financial planning. A.L. Williams survived and thrived and the insurance industry is better off because of their influence.

    Whether any of you b & m about YTB, we are here and we will be here in the future. I'll bring Doug B. up again . . . he has done a great job of explaining our business model and setting the record straight on all-things YTB. John and the rest of the naysayers ignor his work and continue to call YTB a scam and a rip-off. It's pretty simple . . . you don't like us and you never will. But your b....ing and moaning will not affect me (and others) at all. We will continue to sell travel websites that sell travel. And a majority of those who spend their ($450 and $50 per month will be glad they did it.

    One last thing to John and others: You would think YTB costs thousands of dollars to join and hundreds to stay in. For someone to spend $50 per month ($1.60 a day . . . WOW!) with no long-term agreement and for John and his cronies to think we are a scam, ruse or rip-off, there are certainly bigger fish to fry in this world. Let's try the timeshare industry or the subprime industry. Now we're talking some money.

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  10. LB--I have learned a lot from Doug and about YTB. I honestly do think that in some fashion the two sides can coexist. Just not as they are right now.

    There is an article coming out on MSNBC in a day or so about an inexperienced agent that kind of screwed the client. 100% of it was due to inexperience. It was not YTB, but Joystar who while not MLM does encourage people with ZERO experience to join up and pay the fees.

    No, YTB is not a costly endeavor in terms of an investment. But it is a big stretch to say that the "majority" are satisfied with the program. 95% are the dreamers and will fail.

    BECAUSE it is such a minimal investment, they will not report it, talk about it, etc. They will just go away.

    At $1.60 a day, YTB might be a fantastic bargain, but at 31 cents a day gross receipts, it all does not come clean in the wash!

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  11. To some people, $1.60 can be a lot of money. Yes, there are bigger fish to fry and there are those that champion those causes. Don't hate just cause someone has finally caught onto your scam, and is willing to expose you!

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  12. Caught on to your scam and willing to expose you? Expose what . . . YTB is what it is. Nothing hidden, all out there for people to see.

    John . . . I'm not huge with YTB. I have 540 RTAs on my Team (almost 5 years) and this is a part-time endeavor along with a traditional business that I own. 723 have signed up during that time including 47 with the free Rep position. 540 RTAs out of 676 are still with us. Pretty happy group. Very diversified and certainly not "failures" as you would lead people to think.

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  13. I really wouldn't tout AL Williams as someone to admire. A lot of folks are now losing their houses because of poor business practices that stem from his 'good deals'. Citibank almost filed for bankruptcy remember.

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  14. Why is it that there are countless websites on MLM, majority stating the above that its not such a great thing. But it's apparently only us that have the issue, or cannot understand it? Its always the outsiders that are wrong, and MLM is the great american dream.

    This has to be my favorite paragraph

    Additional controversy surrounds those companies who also profit by selling their representatives motivational tapes, books, and seminars. They use the rationale that anyone can be successful if they just know how. And anyone can know how, if they just pay to learn. This is a false promise, because most people will never be good salesmen, no matter how much training they receive. It is nothing more than another way for the company to profit from the misfortunes of their recruits.

    So you sell people on the seminars, the tapes, the meetings, the classes etc..all in hopes that maybe some of it will sink in. Most cases...it doesnt. Then comes the BAD CUSTOMER SERVICE. As the article states, its like working with a chimp. Would you want someone who knows absoulutely NOTHING ABOUT TRAVEL, handling your honeymoon/vacation if you weren't in this MLM, or would you leave it up to a professional, and with that I mean A TRUE PROFESSIONAL. Or would you leave it up to the chimp to book you at possibly the worst hotel, in the worst area, at the worst time of year? I'm not even thinking about this as a travel agent. I'm putting myself in the customer point of view. Would I give my money to someone to book/plan my trip that I've been waiting all year for, that has no freaking clue what they are doing? HELL NO!

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  15. No one lost their houses in the 80's and 90's with the A.L. Williams Company when it was a private company. It was term insurance, mutual funds and annunities . . . and the "traditional" life insurance agents hated him and his tens of thousands of agents. If there would have been opportunistic blogger back in the 80's, he could have perpetuated the traditional agent's angst with a blog titled: "MLM and Life Insurance: A Bad Mix!" All said and done, it was the best thing that ever happened to the life insurnance industry as the major cash value life insurance companies had to become more competitive, hence univeral life. It's interesting that YTB's Founder, Lloyd Tomer, was one of A.L.Williams top producers.

    Art Williams holds no responsibility for Citi's financial failures. Talk about a scam, ruse or rip-off . . . no one has lost their home because of YTB. Wait, probably John will find one somewhere.

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  16. Earth to Lisa: People are doing it all day and night long on Travelocity, Expedia and Orbitz . . . and YTB. I'm sure you are good at what you do. More power to you. However, I'm sorry to inform you, but many people get by just fine without you being there to hold their hands.

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  17. Yes, but the difference being, they actually have agents who have some knowledge staffing their call centers. Being owned by the airlines/GDS's and all. When I click on Jo Bob's website, and I click on help, I get a list of vendor numbers. Is Jo Bob gonna help me when I have a question. What is Jo Bob's travel background? Does he even know what MCO stands for?

    Thats the point..and the difference. If they want Jo Bob to do their honeymoon..perfect. I'm sure they can order the wedding flowers from his website too..

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  18. Yes, the wonderful call staff working in India. They are great to talk with and give their expert opinions.

    You seem to think the public as a whole is helpless. I guess I deal with a group of people that knows how to get around the net. Have a question about a resort or area? Most people will Google it and come up with their own information. They don't want to wait until Lisa gets back to them tomorrow. But they will book it on my site because we are competitive with Expedia or Orbitz (and they want to give me the business). Bingo!

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  19. Some travel will be booked that way. But how reliable is the information on the net. Where do they look? Trip advisor? Is someone's idea of 4 Star the same as yours? Qualify the client and you are performing a service.

    ANd when something does not go as planned and there is a fuck up--trust me the clients will NEVER go back to you. And they will be sure to make sure everyone else knows about it.

    It is a matter of time. The numbers are not in your favor.

    As to India---to be honest, I would be willing to bet that they are more knowledgeable than most of your own call center staff or even your executives...remember NONE of them have ANY travel background.

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  20. Sorry, assnonymous (really impressed with your language) . . . you're showing your ignorance about YTB. There are agents with traditional TA background at our home office. For example, a manager closed her agency and moved the whole staff to the St. Louis area for a total of 15. Others have gone to work their individually. Certainly not all, but enough to handle the normal call load. And guess what . . . they have the experience to train the new hires. Some great people work at the Wood River office and YTB treats them very well.

    I feel SO bad that you have to resort to the F word with your angst about YTB.

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  21. lbtravel said...
    [i]no one has lost their home because of YTB. Wait, probably John will find one somewhere.[/i]
    John won't have to find someone ... I know of one who is in dire financial straits, can't make money with YTB, but keeps thinking if they just hold on a little bit more, pour more money down the drain, then maybe just maybe they'll hit the recruitment jackpot and save the house from foreclosure.

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  22. Great job, crack reporter!

    I cannot believe that someone would continue to spend that big, bad $50 dollar hosting fee per month (ie . . . pouring all of that money down the drain). That's no doubt a prescription for financial ruin! That could have bought close to 50 Double Cheese Burgers at McDonalds for the whole month.

    And I'm sure, outside of their overzealousness and blind trust in YTB (they spent a whole $500 to get started), they are great money managers and had thousands in the bank prior to their fate with YTB.

    What a sad tale!

    By the way, if they need a support group, have them contact the poor salesman from Texas that repeatedly got turned down at Hotels trying to use his YTB card. Another sad tale of woe with YTB! I'm sure he is still trying to recover from the pschological damage.

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  23. I happen to sit just a few feet from some of the agents that work in the Orbitz call center and I can tell you that these people know their stuff. They do have experience in the travel industry. They use all 4 GDS's and are very good at what they do. By the way I am not in India.

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  24. Well - when I refer to YTB being a scam it is not for those poor people getting sucked into it - it's for the clients that think they are getting the services of a travel professional when really they are only getting someone willing to pay $50 a month to have a website.

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  25. lbtravel said...
    "That could have bought close to 50 Double Cheese Burgers at McDonalds for the whole month."

    Hey thats equivelant to 50 YTB stocks! And those are the double cheeseburgers on the McDonalds dollar menu!! LOL

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  26. Come clean, Scam . . . you are a closet YTB stockholder! You are absolutely enamoured with the price of YTB's stock. You spin every topic on this blog back to YTB stock . . . I bet you own many, many YTB stocks!!!!!!!!!

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  27. Have you seen this video? Apparently the attorney for ytb said that ytb is in civil and criminal violation of anti-pyramid laws. Here is the link: http://youtube.com/watch?v=D8FTqSuzyoc&feature=user

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  28. Here is the video that YTB's own lawyer details all the laws that YTB is violating: http://www.youtube.com/v/D8FTqSuzyoc&rel=1

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  29. Hey anonymous lets just say I wouldn't count on it. I don't own, or will I ever own YTB stock!!

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  30. LB--typical MLM response---if you are not with us you are the enemy. Pretty sad and right on the money really.

    If the folks in Wood River are so happy, I am assuming they are all RTAs as well right? I mean after all, receiving a paycheck is a big no no in YTB land right? You need to "fire your boss" and take "paycations" because 140,000 RTAs don't understand how anyone could have a "job".

    Wake up! The people that are making money in the program are at the top of the pyramid. The others that are making obscene amounts of SALARIED money are the ones running the company. I don't see Coach, Scott, Kim, Andy, or anyone else in the HQ concerned with building their downline. Know why not? Because 140K RTAs are sending them a $7M per month cash flow!

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  31. LOL, ah yes, by all means google your vacation. Because a website is going to tell you if the resort is under construction, has roaches, beach is public, etc. Come on. Do you think this is new knowledge to me? I've heard this over and over. Do you not think I've had clients who've done this and got burned?.
    That still didn't answer my question about the person on Jo Bobs website who clicks on help and gets the vendor numbers...how does he get the number to the call center for help? Do they know what MCO stands for?

    As for the other agents who've quit, smartened up, they of course are "losers" in your eyes..and most other YTBers who post here because they couldnt succeed. That says alot, considering thats a MAJORITY of the company you keep. Horrible the way you people talk about each other just because they couldn't make the scam work for them..or they finally saw the light.

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  32. See here is the problem with your argument Lisa. It isn't about YTB or MLM wiht you but simply travellers booking online and not using a travel agent. While I do feel for you, that is the way most people want to do things these days. So, that means that that makes your job harder, but you can do it, and I am sure you will do it very well. But, let the ones who have websites sell to their friends and family and let it go already.

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  33. Thats not at all my arguement. My issue is booking on a Website that has no backup in case of problems. I have no issue with Orbitz, Travelocity etc. I use them myself daily for cost comparisons. The people who have YTB sites MAJORITY have no travel training at all, so how are they going to help someone if there is an issue. As a consumer this should alarm you.

    My office has a self-booking website as well, and when a client gets "stuck" or has a question, my phone number is right there on the front page for them to call me. I have nothing against the internet..I thank god for it everyday. But if your going to parade around and call yourself a travel agent, have travel agent credentials, then you'd better well have the skill to back that up. Not just because you paid $500 to get it. THATS my problem.

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  34. "....those people who are qualified, passionate, and determined will be successful."

    This is interesting, Proud - you address "passionate and determined" but you never say anything about "qualified". Why is that?

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  35. Ok, I'm back. In case you were wondering, things went very well.

    First of all, i did not dictate who could and couldn't be in YTB. I gave that person a choice to either get plugged in or quit. That person chose by own free will to quit.

    Again, it is not I who is dictating who should or shouldn't be in YTB. By the words of this blog, it is you TTAs who are "dictating" who YTB should have or shouldn't have join, so don't go trying to flip this back on me. I... as well as many people in my downline are striving to bring in those who are willing to dedicate themselves to selling travel. The RTA who sponsored the one that quit and I did have a discussion about what has transpired.

    As I also said before, I took it upon myself to send out a refund (check)to the one who quit. I didn't have to... by any means, but I felt it would be a nice gesture.

    Still, you jump down my throat???
    You're unbelievable!

    Yes, there are "dreamers" in YTB. there are also "doers" in YTB! The dreamers can dream all they want to, but unless they become a doer... setting goals nd working to achieve those goals, they will never be successful! I didn't become successful with YTB by sitting on my dairy-aire (to put it nicely) all day. I work!

    I'm sorry for those who aren't successful. There is a disclaimer that is supposed to be shown at each and every meeting. It clearly states that there is NO GUARANTEE for success in YTB! Just like every other job out there, there's NO GUARANTEE! What you put into it determines what you get out of it.

    Think of it what you want to. These are the facts!!! If you don't like it... don't join YTB! Ther's absolutely nothing or nobody to force you to join. YTB will continue to grow and sell travel... with... or without you.

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  36. About qualifications, Mr. or Mrs. anonymous...

    Those who are passionate and determined take upon every single route of training YTB and the suppliers offer them to become well QUALIFIED!

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  37. But Proud..indeed there are guarantees with YTB.

    Tomer
    Tomer
    Sorensen
    Cauthen
    Clagg

    all have very nice guarantees. They even have a nice golden parachute.

    Why is it that they are not being paid like a MLM. That is odd.

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  38. john, you don't make any sense. That's the only... excuse me... poor excuse for a comment you can think of? WOW!!!! They are the founders! BTW... there are many non-founders in YTB who get paid a lot more that the Tomers... and they started out as RTAs! If you think that majority of the money goes into the pockets of the Tomers, you are really sadly mistaken!

    ... and I'm still laughing!

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  39. Well as long as you are laughing..if you are on the way to the bank, you will know who those five men are that are headed there as well.

    They receive a 50% override on all Marketing commissions. That's right, they get 50% of all rep commissions. They get a salary. They get bonuses, they have a golden parachute, and for all that travel you claim to sell, they also get to keep 100% of the overrides that are earned from your efforts.

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  40. And it was not a poor comment. You said YTB offers no guarantees. Maybe to you they don't but to those 5 they most certainly do!

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  41. If you say so Johnny boy.

    Show me it in writing and signed by a notary!

    Again, John is drawing for straws... too bad they're all short!

    Yeah, I'm still laughing John.

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  42. Here you go Proud..no notary, but if it is on YTB's site it has to be true

    http://www.ytbi.com/investor/secfilings.asp?qm_page=12864

    beginning around page 88

    I can update it in a month or so when the 2007 report comes out!

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