Well it appears that YTB is #2 in the UK and they have not even launched there! But I am pretty sure this is, yet another list they had not intended to top.
From a February 3, 2008 article in the Sunday Times the headline reads: The 13 best travel scams: From Floridian fraudsters to fake Peruvian police, these are the scoundrels out to scam you.
This internet scam, known as “card milling”, is on the increase. Greedy travellers are told that by spending up to £260 on a travel-agent ID card, they will become eligible for industry-insider rates, meaning huge discounts on flights, hotels and, most commonly, cruises.
You cough up the credit-card details, your ID card arrives – and the first time you slap it down on a reception desk, you’re laughed out of the lobby.
The problem is becoming so widespread that Royal Caribbean Cruises has just announced a crackdown on card-mill chumps – if you flash one of these cards, not only will you not get a discount, you won’t be allowed to book at full rate.
Now what "card-mill chump" could they be talking about that was cracked down upon by Royal Caribbean?
There is something to be said about a reputation preceding you.
So, let me get this straight, some publication from the UK writes a 5 month old story about RC ceasing business with supposed card mills and this is news to you? As you know, YTB was included in that list but has done a tremendous amount to eliminate the card mill reputation.
ReplyDeleteTremendous amount to eliminate its card mill reputation? AHAHAHAHA! Thanks for the good laugh. They barely changed anything. Most of the changes have come from the vendor side. Carnival being one of them. They became the laughing stock of cruiselines, because they lined themselves up with YTB. The changes they made are still laughable but its a step in the right direction. The only thing YTB has done is the $1500 bookings. Thats a joke. And only for new members. Recquire that from everyone and you would see them dropping out like flies. The inactive reps would be screwed.
ReplyDeleteDid I miss the news that YTB can book with RCCL, Celebrity and Azamara?
ReplyDeleteThe RCI move is not the news. The "news" is that a two week old article appeared in an international paper warning people about travel scams and YTB (although not by name)is right in there. Is this a shock to anyone?
Why is it when you call most RTA's phone lines, if they are not personal lines, do they tout the benefits about traveling like a pro and paycations? How about something like "can you imagine yourself sailing the seven seas on a Carnival ship with your every whim catered to..." and not "hey if you did not get paid to take your last trip, you are getting ripped off, so leave a message and I will tell you how you can make tons of money and travel like a professional and take paycations..."
Nice to know you have so much free time John that you have personally called over 75,000 RTAs phone lines. Keep up the good work and you and your ilk can waste time here allowing your customers to turn to the internet because their travel agents are too busy calling voice mails of RTA.
ReplyDelete" international paper "
ReplyDeleteLOL - Too funny . . .
Tom
"If you must hate - hate the game and not the players"
Brand New Financial Services MLM Coming Soon!
InsureBiz
"Partnership For Prosperity"
Have not called them all but have called a few. And when I see a comment from a supplier like this:
ReplyDeleteBlogger Andrew said...
Great article. Just a piece of info. I had to call an agent who made a booking with us about the booking... she was YTB and her voicemail was all about "free perks for your travel" and "get discounted travel." *sigh*
Anonymous--what's your number? What's your voicemail say? Do you have screaming kids int he background? Maybe a howling dog? Or are you a "professional" hawking the YTB program?
So, john from "most" to "have called a few".
ReplyDeleteIMO, you diminish your argument whenever you grossly exaggerate ANYTHING. So, you have called a few and you have a blogger account. Remember that blogger was asked to post the number so other anti YTB people could hear for themselves, and never did. So, I believe that he/she was simply making it up.
My voicemail identifies my name, the name of my travel store and to leave a detailed message and I will return their call as soon as possible. I don't say anything about personal, vacations, travel, recruiting, nothing.
One of my personal pet peeves are long outgoing messages anyway. I hate when I use my cell phone and get tagged into the second minute because some bozo's outgoing vmail greeting is too long anyway.
I can't believe how brain washed people can be. YTB's own attorney posts a letter on the internet that states that that YTB practices "violate the civil and criminal provisions of multiple states' anti-pyramid laws and lottery laws, constitute deceptive trade practices under Section 5 of the Federal Trade Commission Act, violate the U.S. Postal Service Lottery regulations and constitute the unlawful offer and sale of unregistered investment securities under state and federal securities laws."
ReplyDeleteRCCL and IATA shuts them down.
The only people that don't get that YTB is a major scam are the ones that are being scammed! The RTA's!!!!!
I am sure that some of them know it's a scam, and they just choose to scam other people. Which just shows how scummy mlmer's and network marketers can be.
For some reason, they feel that ethics, truth, and doing right by people does not apply to them and their mlm.
If you are in YTB, and you are still protecting and promoting it, after reading that letter from YTB's own attorney... SHAME ON YOU!!!!
You deserve all the BAD KARMA that you are going to bring on yourselves.
This post is a yawner, John. All I can come back for today is to see how ytbscam ties the YTB stock price into this article. Or an update to see if the poor couple was finally forced to leave their home because they poured all of their hard-earned money into YTB . . . at the criminal amount of $50 per month.
ReplyDeleteBut the attorney's letters were taken down because he and Coach made up! I am venturing to say that he was paid off for his silence.
ReplyDeleteMost RTAs that are not making money know it is a scam. They likely will just fade away so the Reps need to keep recruiting to keep the money flowing. But there is little evidence to show since most people are hesitant to admit they were scammed, and if they are, what is the recourse? Sue? For what $500 and $50 a month? The cost of litigation is too high, so they just shut up.
Very similar to rape--very few of the rapes are reported!
Wow, even Andrew who is a supplier is now a liar. If he would have posted the phone number on this blog for all to hear, there would have been outrage..because he didn't hes a liar. Is there ever a win situation? Or is it that YTB/MLMers are ALWAYS right, and everyone else is simply misunderstanding.
ReplyDeleteLB I know you say the "criminal amount" and I think that is interesting since you know it is not criminal.
ReplyDeleteSee my prior post. The cost is less than $500 to avoid laws. The odds of someone being scammed for more than $5000 in the program is slim so no felony charges.
But 140,000 little scams at $50 a time makes the top of the pyramid wealthy!
And the fact that you keep talking down to those about the $50 a month...yes it can be a stretch for a LOT of people. Ash you downline!
This message is directed to lbtravel.
ReplyDeleteHave you read Ted Lindauer's letter?
Are you so brain dead that you can not understand the seriousness of that letter?
What is it going to take before YOU stop scamming other people?
Why do you continue to stick up for a company that obviously has not even followed the advice of their own legal council?
Do you think that YTB is beyond the laws?
Do you think that it is OK to continue to sell people on YTB after reading the attorney's statement?
Do you sleep well at night, knowing that you are scamming people?
Do you feel good about yourself?
Wow - I actually got called a liar... and by an anonymous poster, too! I did not post the number because that would be completely out of line with our company policies. I really don't care if you believe me. Everything that gets refuted on here by pro-YTB people (with little exception, such as Doug) gets refuted with "Nuh uh" and "Liar" and "Nanny nanny boo boo" like some 4year old on a playground.
ReplyDeleteBTW, guys. Since we had a serious problem with a YTB agent a while back, I called YTB and was informed that if you have a problem with a YTB agent, you can email codeofethics@ytb.com
Nice that they have an email address..... wonder if they do anything with it.
ReplyDeleteI wonder what the protocol is for investigating and so forth.
Anonymous - Just so you know, we don't spend our time calling voicemails. If you had read my posting, you would have seen that we had a question about a booking she had done.
ReplyDeleteWe follow up with our clients.
Anonymous: In fact, I feel very good about myself. And part of that is that I don't make a fool out of myself like you did with your "breaking news".
ReplyDeleteFrom Ted Lindauer's website . . .
ANNOUNCEMENT
Over the past week Coach Tomer and I have taken the opportunity to communicate openly and frankly about our past friendship and about the future of YTB. We are in agreement as to what must be done to make YTB become what we and others originally intended when YTB began in 2001, that YTB be the biggest and best network marketing company ever and the largest travel company ever. We found that our friendship of over 20 years was still strong, our thinking very much alike as before and our vision of YTB’s future as it was before, strong and boundless in scope.
Coach and I have decided to work together to continue building YTB together. We have renewed our collaboration to build YTB. There is much to do. My concerns have been addressed and I am satisfied that everything which must be done is being done and done well. Coach and I have resolved to communicate with each other more often and more effectively in the future and, especially on my part, to be patient as the coordination of the many aspects necessary to continue YTB’s growth and success are put in place.
Ted Lindauer
In fact, I saw Ted with Coach at a Founder's Tour event in Memphis a couple of weeks ago. Sorry to have to rain on your parade. As they say . . . be careful about what you read on the internet.
I really wonder how much Coach paid Ted?
ReplyDeleteToo little too late anyway as the charges were in print and just by deleting them doesn't mean they aren't true. I mean. why would a good guy like Ted lie?
So LB please tell us all about what has changed (besides Ted's Bank Balance) since Coach and Ted made up?
ReplyDeleteMaybe Coach (the preacher) or Cauthen (the non CPA) or John Clagg's wife (the non-attorney) explained how YTB is legal.
Did YTB all of a sudden address these issues? Doubtful--because Coach was too busy on the ship and going round the country collecting $10 from all the RTAs....
I ought to break open the piggy bank and forgo a hamburger at McDonalds and buy some stock so I can write the same letter.
Let me translate for you lbtravel:
ReplyDeleteMy name is Ted.
YTB treated me like crap, so I decided to expose them.
As soon as I posted the evidence on the internet, YTB made me an offer that I could not refuse, to make it all go away....
So, I have taken down the letter, and pretend that everything is back to normal... and idiots like lbtravel will buy into the fact that everything is O.K.
Coach made everything better.
Just go out there, and recruit like the wind LBtravel. You are our brainless warior.
Be thankful that we are not in IRAQ.... because we would love to have LBTravel become a ytb marter... and have you become a human bomb to wipe out those infidels against the YTB cult.
Get real RBtravel. Think for yourself. Don't be a ytb zombie. Don't be so ignorant to what is going on.
Are you really that much of a sucker?!!!
Do you not question anything?
What color is the sky in your world lbtravel?
Let me guess.... ytb blue.
I guess I'm amazed that you can even see the sky with your head being so far up your butt and all.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete"Nice to know you have so much free time John that you have personally called over 75,000 RTAs phone lines. Keep up the good work and you and your ilk can waste time here allowing your customers to turn to the internet because their travel agents are too busy calling voice mails of RTA."
Thought provoking comment Anon.
Actually, I find it intriguing as how one little company has caused one little travel agent to dedicate what's left of his life to becoming an anti-MLM zealot. Seems like such a waste when you consider how much time we all have left walking on this earth in an upright position.
Speaking of time. How much time does YTB have left? Any guesses? Some of you TTA's said YTB wouldn't last 6 months when they first started. After 1 year, you said, "I'll give them one year and they'll go under". Seems many of you folks are giving YTB much more time. Recently TravelLisa said something to the effect that she would be around after 5 years and YTB would not. So folks, how much longer? 6 months? 1 year? 5 years? Anyone voting for 10?
How long can a traditional travel agent hold his breath?
olescorekeeper
Wow, Anonymous . . . YTB really has you worked up! Suicide bomber and all. Please keep the guns locked up until you settle down.
ReplyDeleteYou must be a traditional agent to be on this blog and be so worked up about YTB. I'm a bit concerned about you. Take your meds . . . and don't get off of them. Bad things happen when people get off of their meds.
Ole--again, you give me credit for spending a lot of time on this. Really with so much ammunition it does not take long at all. People send me stuff all the time. I sit down on a Saturday or Sunday and can come up with a week or more posts. Sometimes they will go in order..sometimes not. Sometimes something will rise to the top. But it really takes me about an hour a week max. Commenting is easy as well since they pop into my email box and tapping a few sentences is easy.
ReplyDeleteAs to predictions....I am saying YTB has peaked in their recruiting. In this form, I bet they are not around in three years. Now if they morph and become serious about travel.
And equally as intriguing to your claim of one little company and one little travel agent--is the fact that this one little blog has received so much attention from so many people!
Let me translate for you lbtravel:
ReplyDeleteMy name is Ted.
YTB treated me like crap, so I decided to expose them.
As soon as I posted the evidence on the internet, YTB made me an offer that I could not refuse, to make it all go away....
So, I have taken down the letter, and pretend that everything is back to normal... and idiots like lbtravel will buy into the fact that everything is O.K.
Coach made everything better.
Just go out there, and recruit like the wind LBtravel. You are our brainless warior.
Be thankful that we are not in IRAQ.... because we would love to have LBTravel become a ytb marter... and have you become a human bomb to wipe out those infidels against the YTB cult.
Get real RBtravel. Think for yourself. Don't be a ytb zombie. Don't be so ignorant to what is going on.
Are you really that much of a sucker?!!!
Do you not question anything?
What color is the sky in your world lbtravel?
Let me guess.... ytb blue.
I guess I'm amazed that you can even see the sky with your head being so far up your butt and all.
Very well said from one anonymous to another!
Yeah, the whole lawyer argument doesn't really stand up anymore. For all we know, he could have meade the entire thing up. We can't exactly prove it. It's like John said above: "Very similar to rape..." Never reported, and hard to prove. Unfortunately we live in a world where when people are betrayed, then tend to lie to seek revenge. It happens.
ReplyDeleteAlso, as for the code of ethics comment about "nice that they have an email." Have you ever worked in an office environment? They have emails for every different department. Christ, when I worked at an insurance brokerage I had an Excel Spreadsheet 2 pages long with all of the legal, accounting and technical departments addresses.
I don't understand how by having an email address that goes to a specific department (called filtering) makes them in the worng. I'm sure they do something with it, I doubt that it just goes off into cyber-space. I guess those companies that have a sexual harrassment hotline makes them all sexual deviants?
The lawyer argument TOTALLY stands up!!!
ReplyDeleteTed Lindauer's statements, regardless of how or when they were made, warrent investigation.
I would think that even YTB would want this to happen. Why would they want their own company to be in violation of civil and criminal laws.
I just watched Mark Ewing's video post on the letter. He is spot on. I must admit that I feel cheated after learning about this letter.
We need to get hard copies of this letter, and share them with the Attorney General's offices in each state, The insurance commissioner in each state, the FTC, the SEC, and the U.S. Postal Service.
Let's make sure that YTB is legal, before we involve anymore people into the business. Let's make sure that we are not in the wrong.
And if we are proven to be OK, then more power to us!
Trial by fire is not a bad thing. It will make us stronger.
Not all RTA's are blind to what can happen. (I am embarassed by RTA's that continue to look the other way. After all, we all have a stake in the well being of this company) I do not want to be the Enron of the mlm world. We should not just go on blind faith because the leader (and a major stock holder) said that everything is ok. We have every right to hold them accountable for making ytb totally legal and lagitamate.
I would like to see the board of directors answer the resolutions that Ted Lindauer set forth.
Can we get a hard copy of Ted's letter?
Does anyone know how to get ahold of Mark Ewing?
I am not a YTB shareholder. But we need shareholders to submit their own resolutions (copy Ted's letter) and submit it to the board for demanded response. We have a right to know these things.
If the company is broke, we need to fix it. That way, we can continue to grow our businesses, knowing that it will be around for many years to come.
I doubt very much that Ted just made up the whole thing. He would get is ass sued for statements this strong, if they weren't true.
ReplyDeleteGranted, he might not have thought out the whole "post it on the net" senerio. Because, once it is out there, it is out there for good.
If you think about it, those statements were totaly true.
Otherwise, YTB would not have reacted the way that they did.
If you have an employee that you fired, you just don't hire them back because they made harsh false comments about you in anger. You would sue them. Not re-hire them.
Think about it.
To the anonymous person who made the comment about this being a "5 month old article", well since I was the one who originally alerted John to the existance of this particular article, here is a link to it on the London Times website. When you go and look at it, make sure that you look at the date of the byline: http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/travel/article3287518.ece?source=travel
ReplyDeleteHmmmmm, looks to me as if it says February 3, 2008. Please explain to me how that equated to being 5 months old? Yes, it has been 5 months or so since RCI had the cojones to kick YTB to the curb, but please, along with learning how to add and subract, learn how to use a calandar.
IB, your comments along the lines of the "criminally" whatever of $50 really shows how out of touch with reality you are. This country is in a recession, whether the current government wants to acknowledge it or not. There are some people to whom $50 a month can be the make or break point in their budgets, and by sending that $50 to YTB because they have been so brainwashed to think that if they just hang in there they'll make it, could well be the cause of them to lose their home, car, no food, no medicine, no electricity, etc.
LMNOP, yes, when people are betrayed, they tend to seek revenge, but I doubt seriously an attorney is going to be stupid enough to put something up on the internet, for all the world to see, that might be considered a scintilla of slanderous or libelous. And instead of having a generic e-mail address for complaints, why not have it go to a specific person? 9 times out of 10, when something goes to a generic address, it's a blow off.
To all of the MLMer's who think that John does nothing but scan the internet for bad info on YTB et al, you are sorely mistaken. There are many, many of us out there that find the information that John uses in his blog. It's not difficult. There are so many negative things out there that they practically fall into our laps on a daily basis. Hell, I even found the London Times article through a news aggrigator site called Digg.com that I frequent on a daily basis. There is even negativity towards YTB over on the TW forums, posted by a current RTA, YTB Travelingman. He boldly states over there that no matter what he does, in the 2 years he has been with YTB, he has yet to make any money! Yet, every month, he continues to pay his $50. He even talks of having 2 kids in college, a sick, eldery mother living with him, and a car mechanic who has taken him for a ride the last 32, or something like that, months, and the money could probably be used better elsewhere. He even stated that at one point he was so fed up with YTB, he couldn't stand to be around them, or anyone associated with YTB anymore. Yet, he still sends his $50 a month. Boy, does that smack of cultish, brainwashed behavior or what? Even the people he has sponsored are not making any money. Here is the link to that discussion: http://twcrossroadsdiscussionforum.yuku.com/topic/9615 (BTW, Travelingman is known to edit postings, so I have a screenshot of this, just in case!)
I can't speak as to what other TTA's motives in the No MLM movement is, but as for me, I just want to be able to save just 1 person, if not more, from what YTB and other travel MLM's really are; a parasitic company preying on the unknowledgeable, and a fungus on the travel industry.
Oh, and LB, regarding your stock price, I find it amusing that within 2 minutes of market open, the price of the stock dropped! Oh, and it continues going down.
RE: "Cauthen (the non CPA)"
ReplyDeleteFor John and all you other narrow thinkers out there: You don't have to be a CPA to be a CFO:
Steve McGowan is a former VP of finance at technology giant Sun Microsystems, earned his stripes in control. McGowan was the controller of Sun's sales and services business, a controller at one of the company's manufacturing plants, and a controller of a major Canadian subsidiary.
Although he has never worked in treasury, he has an MBA from Loyola and is a certified management accountant. "A CFO must have strong fiduciary skills, a deep understanding of accounting and the processes that underlie it, and broad financial knowledge of the company," McGowan asserts. "The broader and deeper the background the better to prepare you for both fiduciary and strategic roles."
McGowan's responsibilities at Sun draw from his diverse business experiences. The Sun CFO manages finance, legal, IT, and public policy functions.
Yet McGowan says his controller assignments were most important in helping him to move up the corporate ladder. "A controller must understand the financials and also what is driving them or behind them, that's clearly number one," McGowan adds. "You see all these financial drivers coming in like revenues, expense margins, and implications to cash that you must then pull together in a brief summary to obtain a picture of the company at that time. That's great preparation."
Tom Manley, CFO of Cognos Inc., an Ottawa-based vendor of business intelligence software, is another finance chief who has controller experience. Manley never served as a treasurer or pursued a CPA, but built his career through successive finance and operations responsibilities, starting in cost accounting positions in budgeting, accounts payable, plant controller and VP of finance at his former employer, Nortel Networks.
Before signing on at Cognos, his first CFO position, Manley was a general manager of a Nortel division. "I've had a good mix of line management and finance roles," he says.
Manley considers himself a generalist with a knack for learning things along the way. He actually began his career as an engineer at General Motors (his electrical and mechanical engineering degree predates his business degree). "I never set a path toward becoming a CFO," Manley quips. "But I think a good CFO is someone with broad experience and good common sense.
While Manley contends that accounting knowledge post-Sarbanes is critical to the CFO job today, he doesn't think you have to be a CPA to be an effective finance chief.
"There are plenty of CPAs out there who have a difficult time translating accounting into business performance and impact," Manley explains. "There are lots of theoretical accountants around that would make terrible CFOs. The market for CFOs right now is for people with strong business acumen beyond accounting expertise. A great CFO applies his or her broad knowledge to help the business become successful."
Leadership: CPA Not Required
CFO Mike Lynch of Federal-Mogul Corp., a Southfield, Michigan-based automotive parts supplier with $5.5 billion in revenues, also has a background in electrical engineering. "I've got an MBA, but I'm not a CPA," says Lynch, who started his career at Ford Motor Co. in finance, then "worked jobs all over the company," common in large multinational corporations.
After early stints in marketing and sales, Lynch moved firmly into finance as a controller of various business units at Ford North America, CFO of Ford Australia, CFO of Ford New Holland (Ford's old tractor operations, since sold to Case), assistant controller of Ford's international operations, and controller of its automotive components group (eventually spun off as Visteon).
After the IPO, he moved to Dow Chemical as its vice president and controller. Then in 1999, he signed on as Federal-Mogul's CFO — an external candidate brought in to do the job.
More than anything else, Lynch believes finance department managers need to exhibit leadership to help further their careers. "You don't need to be a CPA to lead people," he asserts.
He also says it's unfair to expect a prospective finance chief to be an expert in a whole host of fields. "I know of few CFOs who can be a working-level treasurer, controller, internal auditor, or IT manager all at the same time, though they may have once performed those roles." While he says a CFO must understand finance, accounting, treasury, control, and budgeting to lead effectively, "it is not humanly possible or sensible to be all those functions."
Lynch divides people between leaders, managers, and doers. The doers are the 50 people in the jungle hacking their way through it with machetes. The managers are four people setting the work schedule and training people how to hack. The leader is the one shinnying up the nearest palm tree to declare 'We're hacking our way through the wrong jungle.'
http://www.cfo.com/printable/article.cfm/3008110/c_2984789?f=options
___________________________________
And this article from Bank of America Business Capital:
http://www.bofasecurities.com/public/public.portal?_pd_page_label=products/abf/capeyes/archive_index&dcCapEyes=indCE&id=186
Capital Eyes
Ten Qualities Of An Effective CFO
An effective chief financial officer is critical to the success of any organization; an ineffective one may be the reason for its failure. Bad CFOs are easy to spot—but what about the average ones, with some good qualities but also some key limitations? This question is most crucial in a turnaround. With cash flow tight and lender cooperation essential, a merely average CFO can inhibit progress or even derail the process. How does one evaluate a CFO's capabilities to handle a turnaround situation? When is immediate replacement appropriate?
There are no absolutes, but a "70% rule" can help provide a framework for rating qualities that effective CFOs must possess on a scale of one to 10. The significance and weight of each quality can be adjusted as necessary to a particular situation. CFOs who rank below an average of 70% weighted proficiency in the following 10 qualities probably should be replaced or supplemented.
1) Uncompromising Integrity And Ethical Standards
A good CFO must be honest, ethical and able to develop and maintain the trust and confidence of all constituents. It's not in the job description, but a good CFO knows he is the custodian of everyone's money. The best CFO in a turnaround situation will understand he owes allegiance to all constituents and that sometimes his role is to deliver bad news to the CEO—even if it means risking his job—because it will benefit the stakeholders.
2) Financial Accounting, Cash Management And Corporate Finance Competence
A successful CFO must possess fundamental accounting knowledge, cash management skills and the ability to manage the financial function. A CFO need not be a CPA, but the person absolutely must know how the numbers are generated and be able to communicate effectively with managers, creditors, shareholders and others.
3) Basic Business Knowledge And Strong Understanding Of Company Operations
To be effective in a turnaround, a CFO must understand business fundamentals, a company's basic operations and its business model. A CFO who merely reports numbers and has no interpretive ability does not add value in a restructuring.
4) Strategic Vision And Leadership Skills
The best CFOs can think strategically, help create and execute business plans and demonstrate strong leadership within the financial departments and with the management team as a whole. The CFO can't just be a "numbers guy"; he's got to be a negotiator. CFOs who stay in their offices all day, demonstrate no executive presence, hoard information or are arrogant or condescending are generally ineffective.
5) Problem-Solving Abilities
A CFO's knowledge of the company, its resources and the numbers is critical in formulating a plan to secure a company's future. Good CFOs look for "win-win" situations, rather than trying to get a "good deal."
6) Communication Skills
Especially in turnaround situations, a CFO must be able to communicate the financial performance and resources of the company to all key constituents orally and in writing. A good CFO will give you the answers before you ask the questions; a bad CFO will make you feel that if you hadn't asked, you would never have found out.
7) Strong Work Ethic
A CFO in a turnaround must be willing to work long hours, processing a tremendous amount of work product while paying extreme attention to detail. A CFO who only works eight-hour days will not accomplish the objectives.
8) Self-Confidence And Willingness To Take A Stand
To gain and keep the trust of all constituents in a turnaround, including the company's employees, the CFO must be self-confident without being arrogant. That means the ability to transmit appropriate messages to appropriate audiences, a willingness to admit mistakes and the ability to offer input without insisting on being right.
9) Results-Oriented Mindset
A company in turnaround needs a CFO who is committed to results first. The CFO who elevates process above all impairs his ability to see problems, which is a problem in itself—especially when the company's procedures are likely part of what got it into trouble in the first place.
10) Reliability
A CFO who works reliably under pressure to produce timely, accurate information and is willing to do whatever is necessary to bring about results is invaluable. The right CFO not only wants change, but also can help set the ball in motion.
What to do once you know the score? A failure to replace or supplement the work of an average CFO can have far-reaching negative economic and organizational consequences.
On the other hand, even an average CFO can be useful. If a CFO averages between 50 and 60 but scores well in integrity, business and financial knowledge, work ethic and reliability, retaining the person but hiring an interim financial manager might be the answer.
___________________________________
If you knew Andy Cauthen, you would know he is a perfect fit for this position.
__________________________________
Except that Andy is not the CFO he's the COO.
ReplyDeleteJohn D. Clagg, Chief Financial Officer, graduated with a Bachelor of Science
Degree from Southern Illinois University-Edwardsville. His 25 year career
includes extensive experience at the corporate level in financial and strategic
planning, merger/acquisition transactions, financial and treasury management and
budgeting and financial forecasting. Mr. Clagg began his professional career in
1983 at Arthur Andersen & Co. in St. Louis. He joined the Sisters of Mercy
Health System and rose to the position of Corporate Controller. From 1998 to
2001 he served as Director of Operational and Financial Support at the national
office for Ascension Health in St. Louis. From 2001 to 2003 he served as Chief
Financial Officer for a large assisted living and retirement center in St. Louis
County.
Hey John225:
ReplyDeleteAnon didn't say it was a 5 month old article, he said it was a 5 month old story. Learn to read. (and how to spell 'calendar' and 'aggregator')
I personally am not concerned with the whole CPA thing.
ReplyDeleteI am more concerned with the "violates civil and criminal laws" part.
The letters FTC and SEC, USPS, and AG bother me more than CPA.
Doesn't this bother you TravelLisa?
The letter he posted/wrote was quite disturbing, that really should have made some peoples eyes open. The fact that Coach took him back and it all disappeared is even more so. Was he paid off? As an attorney stating things that are not true for all the world to see would be foolish..no?
ReplyDeleteActually I said the code of ethics email was a good thing. But they should use it and hopefully they do and hopefully it is out there for people to know about and not just some hidden address on the back office system.
ReplyDeleteI know you don't need to be a CPA but it helps. More CFOs are CPAs than not. It is jut the way it is. Cutting and pasting about Canadian companies--who knows the rules up there. Not me. The point was that your senior management has no experience in travel, limited experience in finance, and from last I heard no experience in legal with Cauthen (or is it Clagg)'s wife running the legal department.
An attorney would not post such documents if they were not valid. You YTB folks speak with forked tongue. One minute Ted is the savior of YTB and knows how to make sure it is all legal and that is why he ius back. The other is that he knew it was wrong and Coach showed him the light. Well as I said, I suspect light=dollars. With a cash flow of $7M a month from the RTAs alone, there is plenty of cash to use for shush money.
And here is the UNSOLICITED email from Ted Lindauer on my blog:
thayer lindauer to John
show details Jan 7
Reply
from thayer lindauer --tlindauer@xxxxxx.com--
to John Frenaye --john@jvegroup.net--,
date Jan 7, 2008 10:39 PM
subject YTB Comment
hide details Jan 7
Reply
Hello John. A great blog. I could not figure out how to make a blog statement, please let me know. I may cite your blog on my site, is that ok?
Ted Lindauer
And yes, I was the one that XXXXd out his domain
Hey anonymous, even I said that it was a 5 month old story, so before you chastise someone for their reading ability, maybe you should re-start your subscription to the Weekly Reader. And, yes, I misspelled 2 words. Big deal. I think I might be forgiven considering that I'm on some major pain medication for the foot surgery I had yesterday. What is the excuse of the average YTB agent and their poor grasp of spelling and grammar? I must be pretty right on with everything else I stated, since that is the only thing you can find fault with from my posting!
ReplyDeletejohn225 said...
ReplyDelete"I think I might be forgiven considering that I'm on some major pain medication for the foot surgery I had yesterday."
Sorry about your foot. I'm sure you are aware that major pain med's do have an affect on one's judgement and reasoning ability. Hope things clear up for you soon.
olescorekeeper
Ole, yes, I do realize that, and that's why I'm not out driving or operating any heavy machinery. My opinions, however, remain the same.
ReplyDeleteAgain, I say that what I posted must be pretty spot on if all anonymous could find to complain about was 2 misspellings.
John225 said:
ReplyDelete" . . . by sending that $50 to YTB because they have been so brainwashed to think that if they just hang in there they'll make it, could well be the cause of them to lose their home, car, no food, no medicine, no electricity, etc."
Are you really serious? PLEASE! I know the traditionals do not like YTB and MLM and John is the anti-YTB crusader, but give me a break! If life is that bad that $50 is the break point that will cause you to "lose your home, your health . . . QUIT PAYING THE $50!
We've gone from YTB RTAs being compared to suicide bombers and now to keeping people from buying their medicine or paying their utility bill. Beam me up, Scotty . . . it's getting CRAZY on this blog!
Also, anonymous is looking awful hard for something wrong, wouldn't you think, when out of 3 posting of well over 500 words, I only misspelled 2, while still being able to spell words such as "scintilla", "libelous", "slanderous", "cojones", etc.
ReplyDeleteLB, yes, I am serious, because there are people in this world gullible enough to believe all the hype that you and your brethern spew forth. They keep hoping and praying for that big payday that will never come. They have been indoctrinated into the cult called MLM and are afraid to stop paying for fear of losing their new "friends".
ReplyDeleteI was going to apologize for nit-picking before, but I see that your medication is kicking in, so I'll save it.
ReplyDeleteI hear there is a new MLM Tome COleman is running that will take care of your medications.
ReplyDeleteOnly $500 to join and then $49.95 a month and you are a referring pharmacist. If in California--weed for everyone!
Bwahahahaha, anonymous. I actually haven't taken one of my Vicodin since 9:15 this morning, and have actually been walking around. No medication kicking in, just stating facts, unlike the majority of MLMer's that come here and to other forums.
ReplyDeleteOh, and Ole, thanks for the thoughts. Lemme tell ya, surgery on the foot is worse than it sounds! I thought it would be a breeze, but damn! I'll never take my mobility for granted again.
ReplyDeletejohn225: Sounds like you are a recovering Amway'er. Sorry, we don't have our rallies that cost hundreds of dollars to attend in your 3 piece suit and get people hooked on our $10 "cassette tape of the week".
ReplyDeleteIn all of the garbage being thrown around about YTB on this blog, let me let you in on a little secret. And this is the secret that seems to evade everyone that cannot understand YTB:
There are people all over the U.S. that are looking for a home business in order to tap into the tax benefits available to home business owners. Home businesses range from nutritional products to cosmetics to cooking ingredients. Most of these home businesses require what is called an "autoship" . . . meaning a committment to $100 to $150 per month of products usually stored in a spare bedroom or garage.
These products generally are high quality and with the high quality comes high price. You have to buy the products and then try to sell them to your friends or families.
People are looking for a home business because Congress has made the laws favorable to home business owners. If they indeed pursue a profit, the opportunity is there to tranfer typical personal expenses under the umbrella of business expenses.
Along comes YTB and it fits the bill for many people looking for that home business. It is simple, easy to manage and does not require an inventory. The product is travel and it has universal appeal. If people manage their business properly, pursue a profit and keep proper documentation, that "terrible" $50 is the best money they spend each month. It is the overhead for their business that helps unlock hundreds per month of tax savings.
I have people on my Team that I could not take YTB away from them if I wanted to. They love it . . . not because of some stupid cult nonsense, but because it is a great financial decision.
I am not a CPA, but I have 9 CPAs on my Team who have YTB businesses. They certainly get it. Many successful professionals are on our Team. There are resources available to understand exactly how to manage a home business . . . legally and ethically.
Now that I've let the secret out, I'm sure I will hear from the "tax experts" that say you can't do this. I may not be an expert on many things, but I do know this one forwards and backwards. And I went through an audit with flying colors a couple of years ago . . . with deductible expenses to spare had I needed them.
Now you know the secret!
Well, John225 -- I'm glad you're feeling better. And I am sorry for nit-picking about the spelling.
ReplyDeletebtw - which MLM(s) have you been involved in and failed? Your scathing comments paint a picture, no?
"Cutting and pasting about Canadian companies..."????
ReplyDeleteLast time I checked, Sun Microsystems and Federal-Mogul Corp. were American corporations.
"....Coach was too busy on the ship and going round the country collecting $10 from all the RTAs....
ReplyDeletewhat the hell are you talking about?
Sorry, LB, never been in an MLM and never will be. I have too much self respect for that.
ReplyDeleteIt's no secret that having a home based business has it's tax advantages. However, there are certain criteria that must be met to take advantage of those tax breaks, and the majority of MLMer's do not meet that criteria, yet YTB and others will hype this as part of the reason to buy in.
As to you not having "rallies that cost hundreds of dollars to attend", what do you call your "conventions"? Whether there is a cost paid directly to YTB or not, there is still a cost involved in attending. And while I have never attended a YTB recruiting meeting, I know those that have, people that I know and trust with my life, and according to them, those meeting are exactly what you say they are not.
Just because you have CPA's and other so called "educated" people in your "team" (downline), that doesn't mean they have intelligence. All it means is that they muddled their way through some university somewhere and graduated (what was their GPA?) and passed a test (how many times did they have to take that test to pass? Remember, it took JFK, Jr. 3 or 4 times to pass the NY Bar Exam). Having a degree does not equate to intelligence or common sense. There is a fine line between genius and insanity.
Dear Dipshit:
ReplyDeleteTom Manley, CFO of Cognos Inc., an Ottawa-based vendor of business intelligence software, is another finance chief who has controller experience. Manley never served as a treasurer or pursued a CPA, but built his career through successive finance and operations responsibilities, starting in cost accounting positions in budgeting, accounts payable, plant controller and VP of finance at his former employer, Nortel Networks.
Ottowa=Canada! In case your YTB 101 class did not cover it!
Anonymous said.....
ReplyDeleteWell, John225 -- I'm glad you're feeling better. And I am sorry for nit-picking about the spelling.
btw - which MLM(s) have you been involved in and failed? Your scathing comments paint a picture, no?
First off, thank you.
Second, no MLM for me. As I said to LB, too much self respect to get involved in anything like that. Scathing? I think not. Truth is more like it. Truth hurts, remember?
john225 said...
ReplyDelete"They keep hoping and praying for that big payday that will never come."
Hope is defined as "The feeling that what is wanted can be had or that events will turn out for the best."
Unfortunately, "hope" for these folks means sitting around and waiting for something to happen.
There is little or no action taken.
I've seen home foreclosures on these folks. Some don't even lift a finger to extricate them from the situation.
Hope alone is not the answer. The formula for success is hope, belief in oneself, and massive action.
olescorekeeper
Olescorekeeper, actually, according to the Merriam Webster dictionary, hope is defined as: to cherish a desire with anticipation.
ReplyDeleteI would suggest that you go to TW and read YTB Travelingman's postings. He has stated that he "works" his "business", all to no avail. He is but one example of someone who "works" and still nothing happens for. I'm sure there are many, many others out there that are just too ashamed to come forward.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete"....Coach was too busy on the ship and going round the country collecting $10 from all the RTAs....
what the hell are you talking about?
In case you missed the memo or did not produce enough to be included, there was a Birthday Bash and the top dawgs from YTB sailed to the Bahamas on Carnival.
Hence, Coach was on a ship!
Then, when they got off the ship, Coach and Scott went on the Founder's Tour and exposed the message to over 30,000 people. But most of them were already in the program so it cost those in attendance $10 a head to see them speak.
Hence, collecting $10 from all the RTAs
Simple....
....ton
I'm not a CPA, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night ....
ReplyDeleteCouple of random thoughts here…
ReplyDelete- I knew that John meant Clagg and not Cauthen.
What you all need to understand is that John’s not all the concerned with minor details like names, dates, or financial numbers. As long as he has someone blowing hot air at all the mud he’s throwing up on the internet, he knows some of it’s going to dry and stick.
Makes little difference to him that most large Corporations like YTB have entire firms like UHY LLP doing their financials. He was told by one of his own it wasn’t a big deal, but yet, up comes “what’s his name” again.
- I wonder how our friends from across the pond would feel about a Thomas Cook subsidiary working with YTB and the Two Fly Free program?
Maybe we should get the Brits to storm the 25 Thomas Cook offices associated with the ABTA? (It’s a thought…)
For those who want to trouble the FTC with complaints and Ted Stockholder Grievance, apparently you have forgotten that the FTC has already been flooded about complaints about YTB. (or didn’t you get that memo last week?)
Part of the reason it was a Stock Holder Grievance is because it really didn’t have any teeth. Civil and Criminal accusations should constitute a suite of some sort, don’t ya think? It’s kind of hard to file a suite when you’re the one who wrote the civil that into the program before you even came on board full time in 2006.
- I don’t know if codeofethics@ytb.com has anything to do with Phil Piccolo now “moving on” but I suspect that it does. I know his site(s) is down and rumored to already be with another company. Having someone trying to confirm with his Rep number as we speak. Tom should get back to me soon. (Actually it’s not Tom, but since we’re poking fun today, I thought it was a nice twist.)
That’s about it for now…Just thought I’d try to get you guys back on track and look at some actually facts instead of bantering back and forth.
Actually, the Thomas Cook "affiliation" is so miniscule it's funny. One of their many subsidiaries, LVI (Lifestyle Vacation Incentives), a questionable company in it's own right, is the one that has the agreement with YTB. I'm sure that if anyone called the Thomas Cook headquarters and mentioned YTB the response would be "who?".
ReplyDeleteThe "2 Fly Free" program that all the YTBer's seem to think is the end all, be all of programs is not as unique as they would like you to think. If one goes to the LVI website (http://www.lifestylevacations.com/lifestyle.htm) and does a side by side comparison of their produce called "Boarding Pass", you will find that they are identical.
ABTA.....looks like an industry association, similar to ASTA or ARTA. What's wrong with being a member of an industry association?
The above comment by Doug about the FTC list.....he makes it seem as if all of those complaints were about YTB. John nor any of the other TTA's here said that it was about YTB. The YTBer's brought that into the mix. All that was pointed out was that YTB MIGHT fit into several different catagories, but that MLM in general was listed in the top 20. I don't know where Doug got that these were stock holder grievences. These are complaints from anyone and everyone. You don't have to be a stockholder of a company to complain about it.
Phil quit? OMG the guru of MLM does not feel YTB is worthy of his efforts? GTFO!
ReplyDeleteDoug is referring to Ted Lindauer's letter to the Board regarding several legal issues. This was the first step towards filing a suit against YTB as a shareholder. So yes, his claims do have merit. However, it seems that once they were published, everything that was wrong was made right again...wink wink...and Ted removed the documents from his website and is now back in the good graces of Coach.
But Doug---since you are so good at not slinging mud (wink wink) please tell me what happened to the grievances? What did YTB do to resolve them? I think I know the answer but I thought you might like to see if you can snoop that out too!
I see now. Thanks. The writing seems a bit disjointed, jumping from the FTC to a totally different subject. The posting seems a bit all over the place, jumping from one subject to the next with no preface.
ReplyDeletejon...why do you let that assclown post on here?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.wahm.com/forum/printer_friendly_posts.asp?TID=467936
I really didn't even want to entertain the guy. Someone sent me his MSNBC post just before the National Convention. (Anonymous of course) I decided at the time he wasn’t worth it to give him audience. Over the last week, I had been piecing together that he was involved in all this, but when his arrogant, pompous a-s....well you know, showed up taking credit for this fiasco...ON MY OWN BLOG, I just couldn't resist! When I saw the notification that he commented, my first thought was “Got ‘em”.
It’s like a sickness he has, always having to be the center of attention.
I wonder if he’ll like the attention he’s getting now? LOL
From my click software, he has not been back since before I posted. He did check this morning to see if I posted his comments, and when he saw that I hadn’t (yet) he probably thought I succumbed to his lies and authority thinking since I’m some YTB sucker, I would never post anything that wasn’t Pro YTB.
SURPRISE!
I know Coach, Scott and Kim would have never even lowered themselves to acknowledge this idiot, but since I know his type all too well, AKA: Zealots who “think” they know it all, I thought it was time somebody tell him he’s clueless.
If you read other comments from him on the boards and forums related to travel, this guy can do no wrong. (According to him of course!)
I got to tell you, the traffic and support I’m getting out of all this is incredible. I’ve really struck a nerve, and while I didn’t want to do it at first…I’m really glad I did. It’s helped a lot of people deal with this. THAT means A LOT!
Thank You! I am honored to be a part of this with all of you!
-------------
Doug & Ronda Bauknight
http://www.justpictureitnow.com - We Sell Recess!
http://travel-pro.blogspot.com - If you had more time and more money...What would YOU do?
John;
ReplyDeletePhil didn’t quit. His site has been disabled. If he quit, his Rep site would still be up. Like I said, I’m trying to verify with Tom exactly what happened. He has all the latest scoop.
John225;
You guys have already called Thomas Cook, and that’s exactly what was reported back. LOL! Of course that was before anyone had documentation to link the two, so you might want to check again. ;-P
And this entire thread is disjointed John. (The word "rape" was even injected along the way.)
In regards to Ted, I’ll let you guys waste your own time with that. If you want to try to make something of it, be my guest. I’m sure you have a copy of the document saved on your hard drive.
Like I said, he helped write the comp plan before he came on board full time in regards to our CRTA training. To assume that it’s not compliant now put egg on his own face, not ours.
Have at it.
Oh, Doug. Really trying to reach to lend some credibility to YTB and the programs they offer, aren't ya'll? One has to really dig to even find the link between LVI, the actual company doing the fulfillment on the "2 Fly Free" program and Thomas Cook, but because there is a minute link there, all the YTBer's are proclaiming it to be an honest to God Thomas Cook program. The link is tenous at best. LVI is actually owned by a company called My Travel plc, which is owned by Thomas Cook. 3 degrees of seperation.
ReplyDeleteThe thread isn't really disjointed. While the word 'rape' should never be bandied about, the thread is far from disjointed to those who read carefully. If someone in YTB, or any MLM, would just answer with some semblance of straightforwardness the questions that are put to them, then things wouldn't get out seemingly out of whack. We all know that isn't going to happen, though, because the way to answer questions, at least by the YTBer's that frequent here, is to change the subject or to give such disjointed responses that nothing makes sense.
As I stated earlier about one of my posts, it must be pretty much spot on, because no one from the "other" side has even tried to refute anything I have said, other than to chastise my spelling.
I was on the Thomas Cook Site and sis not see any link to LVI. I even did a search of the site and did not see anything
ReplyDeleteNVM..it is not on their site but included in their financial documents when they merged
ReplyDeleteJohn said...
ReplyDeleteI was on the Thomas Cook Site and sis not see any link to LVI. I even did a search of the site and did not see anything.
I provided the link above.
Please note the “Thomas Cook Group” in the url http://www.thomascookgroup.ca/content.asp?page=25184
John225 said…
As I stated earlier about one of my posts, it must be pretty much spot on, because no one from the "other" side has even tried to refute anything I have said, other than to chastise my spelling.
I know the feeling, but at least YOU weren’t just called an “assclown”. ;-P
PS - I'm glad you're back in the land of the living. I was wondering where you were.
John said...
ReplyDeleteDear Dipshit:
Johnny! I thought you discouraged name calling! What happened? Struck a nerve?
Anyway, when you said Canadian companies, I took that to mean plural, as in more than one, since a noun ending in -y preceded by a consonant (company)makes the plural with -ies. This should have been covered in your third grade language arts class. Cognos, Inc. is a singular company, and the only Canadian company mentioned in the article. The other companies (Sun Microsystems and Federal-Mogul Corp. -- see? more than one!) are, in fact, American.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteJohn said...
Dear Dipshit:
Johnny! I thought you discouraged name calling! What happened? Struck a nerve?
Anonymous, can't speak for John, obviously, but I know for me, I can only turn the other cheek for so long before I have to stoop down to the level of certain people, so that they can understand. There are just those in this world that this is the only way you can talk to them before they get it.
LOL - in this post:
ReplyDeleteJohn compares present situations to "rape"! Rape? Man . . .
Then - we have talk of drugs, vicodin, weed and such . . .
This blog has turned into the National Enquirer . . .
Tom
Tom if you read it I used the comparison to rape because so many people do not report being scammed.It is a known fact that many people who are raped also do not report the crime because they are ashamed. There are some parallels in that instance.
ReplyDeleteNo shoo fly---go sell a reverse mortgage to some unsuspecting senior citizen! Too bad there is not a "ban" feature here--that was I could keep you true to your word of being gone for 90 days!
Damn! I'm gone for a while, and come back to this nonsense???
ReplyDeleteJohn said...
But the attorney's letters were taken down because he and Coach made up! I am venturing to say that he was paid off for his silence.
Please John... is that what you really think? Again, all John has been able to do is speculate... and speculate some more.
Now he's retrieving an article from a newspaper... most likely a tabloid... LOL!!! Now we have the opinion of a "columnist". Of course, it's just an opinion, but the anti-YTBers see it as fact... just because it slanders YTB.
I'm sure that if the shoe was on the other foot, and the paper was slandering you instead, you all would have your panties all up in a bundle.
despite what you claim, I do firmly believe that YTB is taking business away from you. suppliers are setting up specials that are available through YTB to our clients. If YTb was a scam, then the other suppliers would have followed RCCL without hesitation. We know that didn't happen. In fact, YTB is getting even more suppliers! We keep growing!!!
If YTB wasn't taking away your business, you wouldn't be fighting so hard to get rid of us. for you, this is a losing battle.
Sad... but true.
BTW... I am laughing extremely hard right now!!! LOL!!!
ReplyDeleteHey John,
ReplyDeleteDoug is telling the truth here. Ted really did help write the comp plan for YTB.
Here's a towel so you can wipe the egg off your face... LOL!
Also, I noticed your statement above:
ReplyDeleteThen, when they got off the ship, Coach and Scott went on the Founder's Tour and exposed the message to over 30,000 people. But most of them were already in the program so it cost those in attendance $10 a head to see them speak.
Hence, collecting $10 from all the RTAs
Now that's funny!!!! Where did you get this info? After the cruise, i also went to one of the Founder's Tours (in Tampa). Do you know how much it cost to get in? Absolutely $0!!! Originally, the place was going to charge us for parking there, but Coach took care of that and got the parking fees waived as well.
Again... before you go spewing off at the mouth, make sure what you are saying is an indisputable fact.
Afterthought... if John did that, then this would be a totally empty blog... LOL!!!
Of course it was different for you Proud. No one does it like you do it right?
ReplyDeleteWell, it was $10 for RTAs and guests were free. Just like ALL of the other meetings that take place to recruit people into the program.
Now maybe they comp big directors like you, or maybe you go free if you bring so many guests, but the cost of admission is $10.
Huh???
ReplyDeleteJohn, you make absolutely no sense!!!
All I have to say is that in Tampa, it was totally free for everyone to attend. Maybe you should have gone to that one.
Maybe it was a Director who decided to capitalize on the tour. It surely wasn't by Coach's hands. There was never anything posted in our newsletters about any fees that would be charged to attend a tour. NONE!!!
Keep in mind that I DO NOT work in HQ. I DO NOT make the rules! All I am is a glorified RTA because I have built a team. That's all.
BTW... a meeting is diferent than a tour. Some places... like hotels charge a fee to use a banquet rom to hold our meetings each week. This costs money, so instead of just haveing one director pay the whole fee each week, it gets split up amongst the RTAs. We each chip in towards the total cost. Guests are free. It's only fair. YTB makes no money off of this. I also assure you that we don't pay $10 each for our meetings. It goes directly to the hotel. If we have a meeting in a restaurant, then our fee is purchasing food from that restaurant. It's only fair.
ReplyDeleteJohn Boy,
ReplyDeleteI went to the Tampa, Houston, Dallas and Austin Founder's tour and they never collected a nickel.
Really, get your facts straight..You said Founder's tour and them said recruiting meetings..
Which is it?
Unless it was paying to go to the convention, I haven't EVER paid to see the Coach or Scott..
This is my first an last time on this goofy blog...
YTB'ers why don't all of you boycott this dumb blog and that will really piss Johnny off! Then he and his other crew could sit there and complain to each other! YEAH!
I won't be back.
Yes, I came in as an anon. As much crap as you spread on here, I don't want my name in it!
Loving YTB and Proud, too!
Then wash them Wait at least 20 minutes can help lessen the inflamed appearance.
ReplyDeleteTo make the condition worse by pushing the pus and leave the penis feeling smooth, supple and responsive.
Use a cotton ball at night and 2. This is a ridiculous example, I know how difficult it is to discover an excellent product is from family
orfriends who have had major how to get rid of acne issues can tell you two things.