Over on the Travel Weekly forums a few weeks ago, a disgruntled former RTA brought up an interesting point about their former YTB website. Now I fully realize that this RTA is the only one in existence and is the same one interviewed in Texas and referred to in the LA Times story and the Chicago Tribune story, but regardless, it is an interesting question.*
It was mentioned that the recruiting websites (REPS) are left up indefinitely--even though the rep may be inactive or have quit--because YTB keeps them on the books forever--sort of like Maryland Gubernatorial election.
It also seems that the RTA sites are also left up indefinitely even though the RTA may have notified YTB that they have quit.
I understand the reasoning--there may be marketing material out there directing people to those sites and if the site is not there--poof there goes the lead or possible sale.
But what happens when some consumer digs out the flyer that was left on a car at the mall, or that business card that was picked up at the pizza joint, or even a friend that may not be aware that the RTA has quit?
Do they blindly book assuming it is benefiting their friend? And what happens to the commission earned? Is it a perk for HQ? Is it shared with the old upline?
YTB has mentioned lifetime income, does this commission ultimately go to the RTA even though they may no longer be in the program?
I know when an employee leaves, we do look at the bookings in house and make a determination--usually they are paid, but my gut tells me this may not be the case with MLM.
John;
ReplyDeleteYou posted a few months back that the booking engine web site in Rhode Island was disabled
"assuming" that the AG has shut them down. (Any update on that by the way?)
Based on your “assumption” should we also “assume” that the AG in Georgia is also shutting us down? (Note: no link to “book travel”, and you can’t even go there direct, at www.ytbtravel.com/midwest)
The truth of the matter is this:
No one can blindly book assuming that it would benefit Vivian or any other inactive RTA.
I’m working on your next question in your LONG list of questions which addresses this particular myth that Booking Engines are also kept live when an RTA drops the program. YTB doesn’t have a “house account” when it comes to travel.
If however you would like to join Vivian as an RTA yourself, you can sign up and Join under her. She will still get a commission for recruiting into the program, and best of all, I’ll also be paid and I’ll be your Power Team Leader.
Not a bad deal. ;-P
Hey Douggie,
ReplyDeleteUntil you can answer the question about Phil and the good ole DR...you have no right to demand any answers from anyone. The same question has been asked OVER AND OVER again. You return with the typical YTB response...which is to tip toe around questions or change subjects. Until then you have no right to demand answers from others.
Gosh, I can't believe I'm about to defend TravelPro.....
ReplyDeleteHey, YTBScam! TravelPro didn't "demand" anything in that post. They asked about an update. It looked pretty civil to me.
Many in the anti-MLM crowd get very upset at name calling, mis-information, etc. supplied by the MLM folks. Yet, I guess it's okay to start the nasty stuff yourself on this particular thread? Come on folks, it really is possible to civil discussions on these topics.
The link you gave goes to a generic YTB sign in page asking for a password.
ReplyDeleteSo the REP sires remain active indefinitely, and anyone that signs up there is entered into the downline and that person--although inactive receives whatever they are entitled to under the compensation program?
What happens to an RTA site that is inactive or if they notify you that they quit? There was a poster over on TW that indicated that they are kept up indefinitely---as she was still able to access her back office and so forth, yet had notified YTB she was out of the program. Was this a glitch? Or are the sites left "open"?
I can see the reason for leaving them open--you have 140,000 of them out there and the more opportunities for consumers to find you the more opportunity to sell travel. But I wonder what happens (if it even does) when a customer books under an inactive or former RTA site. Where does the commission go? I imagine if a commission check comes in and there is a notice on file that they quit--I would assume they don't send the check.
And I agree with TVS--we are not talking about Doctor Bob or Phil here, so lets keep it on topic
Once someone cancels or suspends their website it is shut down. For example, type in a www.ytbtravel.com/mgjcarter this is a cancelled RTA.
ReplyDeleteIt will direct you to a YTB website and you have to enter in an active RTA to get to a booking site.
Try it!!!! Your information is a myth. The REP website does remain active because it was free in the first place.
Myth?! Why is it so hard to find out about anything YTB? I thought that was the power of the upline? Do the sites stay active? Yes or No?
ReplyDeleteAnon--ok so that is an inactive website. I can put in my last name and get the same result. No reason to doubt that it is a former RTAs site, but when you go there...as it is with your help---you are really screwed.
ReplyDeleteIf Billy Bob told me about his new business and I went to ytbtravel.com/billybobtravel I get the following message:
Welcome to the YTB Travel Network!
To experience our product, you must visit the Travel Booking Engine through one of our RTA's sites.
Enter the web address of the RTA who referred you to YTB Travel Network to start taking advantage of great travel specials available to you!
http://www.ytbtravel.com/
Copyright 2007 YTB Travel Network - All Rights Reserved - v2.0 - Privacy Policy
CST # 2057620-40 FLA. Seller of Travel-Reg. No. St-33570 OHIO St. ID# - 8889162 IOWA TA# - 666
WA-UBI# - 602 141 482 HI-TAR# - 5851 NV#2006-0212
Well, I DID go to the address of the RTA that referred me. So as a consumer, what do I do now? Just put in some random names in the box hoping to get one that works? There is no phone number, no address, no link, no email, nothing at all for the consumer.
There are a LOT of failures in the program and I imagine there are a LOT of business cards out there with web addresses that return this page.
What's the deal with that?
Ya know what? The above post from anonymous with the www.ytbtravel.com/mgjcarter link proves nothing. You can put in the first part of the link (www.ytbtravel.com), and then anything you want and get the same response. I tried it by putting in my name after the slash, and got the same page. Try it with this: www.ytbtravel.com/DLNWRulz and see what happens.
ReplyDeleteWe'll never get a straight answer on this, because we never get a straight answer on anything from YTB, or any MLM for that matter. It is an interesting question, though.
You got a straight answer. Do your own research now if you do not believe my answer. When you find out I gave you a straight answer, please come back and i will give you some more. By the way, when a business stops paying overhead it is shut down. Let's assume that John is correct and the Travel Website stays active after you cancel or suspend then would 140,000 RTA's pay the $49.95 per month to keep it active? Come on!!!!!
ReplyDeleteAnon, I was not suggesting the RTAs are paying for the site. There really is zero cost to YTB to have the site up.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, if I was running the show and a RTA either resigned or ceased paying the monthly fee, I would likely redirect HIS site to the person in his immediate upline.
For all YTB knows, there may be a million people out there with cards and emails with that website. If those million people go there--poof lost business. They are now coming to me, Travelocity, TraverUs, etc--they are NOT going to YTB because there is no means to get to YTB from that disconnected site.
Might as well continue to reap any little benefit you can.
I did do my own research, and found out nothing but the same claptrap that one would expect from an "anonymous" entity.
ReplyDeletedlnwrulz you are as anonymous as I am. If you want to poke fun at people who are anonymous then use your name so we really know who you are. John can and has earned the right. Call YTB direct and ask your questions? Or do you ask everyone when you do research other than the horses mouth.
ReplyDeleteWhy do all the YTB zealots continue to deflect answers? It's either..."hahah you don't know what your talking about", or "call YTB directly". For gods sake if you can't answer questions about your own company, then you shouldn't really be a member of so said company.
ReplyDeleteOr stay out of the conversation. EAB has not been around since he was proven dead wrong on the $100 million paid to the "field"
ReplyDeleteanti-eab,
ReplyDeleteRead the post. I answered the question and was called a liar. Talk about deflecting answers. You will not listen when we do answer. This is a waste of my time. Back to making money!!!! Capitalism people!!!
Free Enterprise!!!!
It would absolutely make sense to have dead websites redirected...if selling travel was the priority. If the priority is selling websites you would only want to leave the ytb.com address.
ReplyDeleteiontop---selling travel...a priority....ha ha ha you crack me up!
ReplyDeleteIt's not a glich. When an RTA cancels, their RTA site (ytbtravel.com/blahblah) is shut off and there is no more monthly fee. However, the REP site is left open. They can request this to be shut off as well. The sites are not re-directed to the upline, seeing as the RTA can start paying the monthly fee again at any time. Some people probably just put it on hold for a few months and re-start. Even wehen both sites are down they do no re-direct. For those people that cancel and have business cards and flyers out there, well, then they are screwed. my guess is that the person that vcancelled is missing out on more than YTB is.
ReplyDeleteNow when the REP site is left open and the RTA site is off, people can still join under someone and they still earn the commissions for that. But not for travel, for obvious reasons: no one is able to book on the site. Same with if both sites are shut off, no one joining=no money earned, by YTB or the REP.
For the person that still has their site up, have they tried actually tried booking a trip? They may want to check that they are not still being charged.
And if they started paying again the site could be redirected away from the upline.
ReplyDeleteI would imagine, but what if the upline cancelled? In these family tree type scenarios where it just keeps going up and up and up, then what? It just keeps re-directing? Maybe they should have some kind of option where if they cancel for good they can direct it somewhere else or somethng. Who knows? I don't make the rules :)
ReplyDeleteOh God…
ReplyDeleteYou guys just can’t look at simple facts can you? You can’t research with the documentation and links I provided in the very first comment.
I have to wonder why I even bother.
Look it’s simple…
Take a look at my Marketing Site www.ytb.com/justpictureitnow
Notice the “Book Travel” link under my families picture. Now click that link.
It takes you my booking engine, www.ytbtravel.com/justpictureitnow
Same heading of BandBVacations at the top, same extension of “justpictureitnow”.
Now let’s look at the link for Vivian that I gave everyone first thing this morning. Her extension is “Midwest”
Here marketing site is www.ytb.com/midwest
Vivian is no longer an active RTA, and is no longer offering the "support" everyone throws up in our face, so therefore do you see a “Book Travel” link on her site?
No.
Based on what we now know about www.ytbTRAVEL.com let’s see if this direct link works for her the same way it does mine.
www.ytbtravel.com/midwest
Welcome to the YTB Travel Network!
To experience our product, you must visit the Travel Booking Engine through one of our RTA's sites.
Enter the web address of the RTA who referred you to YTB Travel Network to start taking advantage of great travel specials available to you!
In order to be paid on travel, you must have a YTB Booking Engine. We are a Travel Company.
I find it rather amusing and quite comical now that it’s been proven that these are dead links, our position has now changed just a few hours later.
Just this morning…
“Do they blindly book assuming it is benefiting their friend? And what happens to the commission earned? Is it a perk for HQ? Is it shared with the old upline?
YTB has mentioned lifetime income, does this commission ultimately go to the RTA even though they may no longer be in the program?”
Now we get…
“To be honest, if I was running the show and a RTA either resigned or ceased paying the monthly fee, I would likely redirect HIS site to the person in his immediate upline.
For all YTB knows, there may be a million people out there with cards and emails with that website. If those million people go there--poof lost business. They are now coming to me, Travelocity, TraverUs, etc--they are NOT going to YTB because there is no means to get to YTB from that disconnected site.”
All I can say after this little bait and switch move is this:
Thank God your NOT running the show John.
Now be a man, edit your post like you had to do on Saturday, and go pick on TraVerus for a while.
They have a house account at www.traverus.com this post would have been better suited for, and applies too.
But instead of checking with your “inside contact” first, you just disqualified your initial rant.
Anonymous, I am known on the internet. Go to TW and look at my profile, just like anyone can. My name and home city are there. Where are yours?
ReplyDeleteDoug, as I stated earlier, I can type in www.ytbtravel.com/DLNWRulz and it goes to a dead link, because I have never been an RTA. Just because a link is dead it still does not answer the basic question posed by John.
Doug---did the Ritalin run out or what?
ReplyDeleteThere was no rant. No need for any editing.
A former RTA said they keep the sites up indefinitely.
I asked what happened to the commission when someone booked.
You said it went to a dead site if it went to a travel site and a live site if it was for joining.
I said that it seemed foolish to me to kill the travel site since there could feasibly be a lot of marketing stuff out there in the world and online directing business to the URL.
If business goes to the URL, the customer is dead in the water with the message that is there. It makes sense that you have someone that wants to book travel to try and fulfill it...right? Or is fulfilling travel no longer a part of the YTB plan?
Why not have those dead pages redirect to the upline, a house account, or at the very least offer a phone number to call so the person that wants to spend money can book their travel.
Hell, if I had the technical expertise, I might hack in and redirect that page to me!
There was no rant, I asked a question and said I thought the way it is handled is stupid. I even offered a suggestion that might put more money in YOUR pocket--make sure LB knows I am playing nice!
It also makes sense since YTB owns the customer--not the RTA. So there is not even a legal deal there.
ReplyDeleteGeez Doug lighten up. I understood John's post and he was asking a legit question. Why is it you people can't seem to grasp it?
ReplyDeleteHey John, How come the date of this blog entry is Monday December 15th?
ReplyDeleteProbably because that's when he started the post Steve. He's gone back to some old ideas and topics to post about.
ReplyDeleteI find it both funny and ironic that you guys think I don’t get it.
Very few of you have shown that you would recognize a direct answer if it ran over you with Mac Truck. (We’re watching Cars right now, had to put my buddy Mac in there.)
So let’s review shall we and see if your assessment is right?
John posted:
It also seems that the RTA sites are also left up indefinitely even though the RTA may have notified YTB that they have quit.
Nooooo. And I gave an example of Vivian who has quit, therefore inactive, and provided documentation of her Travel link being dead.
Another RTA gives and example of www.ytb.com/mgjcarter who as also quit.
Again, active Rep site, but no “Book Travel” link, and we can not access it via www.ytbtravel.com/mgjcarter
John posted:
But what happens when some consumer digs out the flyer that was left on a car at the mall, or that business card that was picked up at the pizza joint, or even a friend that may not be aware that the RTA has quit?
They will find either a Rep site without a “Book Travel” link such as Vivian’s, or will the following error message when they type in www.ytbtravel.com/midwest
John posted:
Do they blindly book assuming it is benefiting their friend?
Can you figure out a way they CAN book without an active link?
And what happens to the commission earned? Is it a perk for HQ? Is it shared with the old upline?
There is no travel booked; therefore there is no commission to speak of.
Is that spoon feed enough for everyone? Do we need any more handholding? Any further mystery if YTB actually keeps inactive RTA sites up?
Are we all in agreement that these are questions and direct answers to those questions?
But somehow, us YTB’ers are not answering the question directly. We don’t get it? Let me try to put this as delicately and as eloquently as I possibly can for you ….
WHAT – A – CROCK!
(I love that line.)
DLNWRulz;
You have completely missed the fact that you must first have an active Rep site in order to provide an active booking engine. The difference between DLNWRulz, Midwest and mgjcarter is that your Rep site goes to a “Demo” Rep site, were there is no active Booking link, nor can you “Join YTB” from this site. (It’s disabled.)
www.ytb.com/mgjcarter is Michael Carter
www.ytb.com/midwest is Vivian Majors
www.ytb.com/DLNWRulz is a Demo Site
You don’t have an active Rep Site, the others do.
Does that provide enough documentation for you? Is there anything unclear about the difference between your and the other examples
I’ll leave you with this last comment John made:
“I know when an employee leaves, we do look at the bookings in house and make a determination--usually they are paid, but my gut tells me this may not be the case with MLM.”
This of course is after “assuming” incorrectly that RTA sites are also left up indefinitely.
Do you really think people are this stupid not to be able to see what’s going on? Now that his “assumption” is proven incorrect (Yet again) we are left to having the truth about this inaccurate information buried in the comments section?
Nice!
TravelPro said...
ReplyDeleteDLNWRulz;
You have completely missed the fact that you must first have an active Rep site in order to provide an active booking engine.
Please explain this. I thought that being a REP and being an RTA were 2 seperate things, and you could do either or both. Why is it that you're now saying that one must have a REP site to have an active booking site?
Vacation Stop--Doug is right. It was begun in January and when I corrected the date to post this morning I must have put in the 2 and not deleted the 1.
ReplyDeleteDoug--
We are on a total disconnect here. I do not want to hear about Reps. I am talking about RTAs and travel sites.
Taking you deep into fantasy land...I sign up as an RTA but not a rep. I get a RTA site that can handle bookings. My URL is ytbtravel.com/iwenttothedarkside
I am gung ho and have the Deals and Steals emailed to everyone I know. I mail them business cards, I leave cards on planes and in pizza joints and I took a booth out at the Baltimore Sun Travel Show and handed out flyers all about my great website, the 2 Fly Free Program, the Olympics, and so forth.
My URL is on all promotional pieces. Now all of a sudden I change my mind and decide to go to TraverUs (as long as we are in fantasy land) and I notify YTB that I am bailing.
They will make the site dead.
Now, since I was not a rep, the ONLY site these million people have to book travel is ytbtravel.com/iwenttothedarkside
If I did not personally notify them of my departure (which I may not even be allowed to do under the YTB contract), they have no way of knowing if I am with YTB or not. If they go to the URL, they are given a dead page. No contact info for me (expected), but more alarming is no contact info for YTB.
So, now I have marketed the YTB brand to a million people that want to book travel, and when they go to my site, it is dead and there is NOTHING to point them in the right direction..or any direction.
My point was that if YTB was smart (biting my tongue here)when an RTA drops that the site should either remain live and redirected to another bookable site, or there should be information on how the client can indeed book with YTB. It is not there.
Now, I am going back to the light!
No disconnect at all John. I realize you do not want to hear about Reps, but it I need to use the Rep site to educate DLNWRulz how our company works.
ReplyDeleteYou get both sites no matter what as an RTA only. If you sign as an RTA ONLY, you still get a Rep site.
You don’t have to do both, but you get both.
I only know of one person who has done this; a Traditionalist who has joined our ranks who does not wish to recruit a single soul and signed as RTA ONLY.
www.ytb.com/swantoursonline
You are the first people on earth besides me, the home office and Verina to actually see this link.
Now Verina is a professional and she knows how to market her booking engine, as do we all. When she sends people to her “Booking Engine” she uses www.swantoursonline.com This is the web site she has on all her marketing material and e-mail addresses.
She has done what’s call “forwarding and masking” of her YTB Travel site. If Verina should choose to go to TraVerus, she would then forward and mask www.swantoursonline.com to her TraVerus site.
Simple, easy, clean, and she doesn’t loose a single customer, or skip a single beat. (Other than her Steals and Deals contacts going inactive when she resigns.)
John, if your using www.ytbtravel.com/blahblahblah on your marketing material you don’t know how to market professionally in the first place, so why your scenario or example is even relevant might be a disconnect for me.
Whatever...the fact that you have a separate domain and you direct it to your YTB shows that you are more on the ball than most. I have collected probably 40 RTA cards in the last 6 months and not one of them had a domain different than ytbtravel.com/rtaname. Most of them do not have the Rep site on them some do.
ReplyDeleteANd if it is two separate businessed, you are now saying it is not and that if you are a RTA, you are automatically a non producing rep?
"if your using www.ytbtravel.com/blahblahblah on your marketing material you don’t know how to market professionally in the first place"
ReplyDeleteDoug, thats not the point.
1) Marketing material exists with ytbtravel.com/blahblahblah and has been distributed - professionally or not.
2) Some people have successfully visited the site and booked travel, even telling their friends and they've booked travel.
3) the RTA quits YTB, YTB deactivates the booking on said site.
4) Anyone who now visits said site reaches a dead end - WHY?
There is nothing there to help them book their travel - only a prompt telling them to enter their RTA's web address...
I am sure with your cutting edge IT Department they could figure out some way of converting this lead to a travel sale - instead of losing it to Expedia or Travelocity - which may happen in this case!
This is extremely interesting. I've been with 2 companies in the last 20 years. With both if an agent left their websites, etc. were automatically directed to an agent of their choice or if the agent did not specify another agent the home office would arrange for a top producing agent to take over the redirect.
ReplyDeleteThis makes sense, if the business is for selling travel they don't want to lose a penny of commission. Obviously selling travel isn't that important to ytb if they allow all these dead links. Considering the vast numbers of RTA's that drop out this year they are losing out on all the marketing that the RTA did themselves.
If the selling of travel was important to ytb they would redirect the selling websites.
Yes, a smart RTA would have their own domain and just redirect to a new site. But to just have the direct ytb link dead really shows me that ytb isn't serious on the actually selling of travel.
Wow -- what stupid management leaving cash (travel sales) on the table.
Oh, but anonymous, don't you know? YTB doesn't have any RTA's that drop out. They are all as happy as clams, making their huge mounds of money. ROFLMAO
ReplyDeleteYeah, try telling YTB Travelingman that he is making money and see what he says!
I understand that you guys may not like this issue, however this is the way it’s typically done in Network Marketing who have withstood the test of time.
ReplyDeleteMoney goes to the people who are working the business.
Mary Kay will also not allow you to order any of their makeup without going through an active Representative. Because this is an “active representative” they are able to service you. It’s not redirected to another site, nor does the product simply “roll up” to the up-line.
Now that my wife is no longer active, where should the sale go? To her upline? (The one that trained and mentored her?)
She’s in Tampa, former clients are in Atlanta.
not one of them had a domain different than ytbtravel.com/rtaname.
I’m not saying your wrong John, but to me, that’s just plain stupid. (On the RTA’s part) It’s just smart Marketing to have a short memorable domain, and our training does address this issue. Nobody remembers www.ytbtravel.com/rtaname. It’s a corner that I just wouldn’t even consider being cut, not to mention being more professional.
I also saw a domain name on a card that was very memorable. (Although I can’t remember the name NOW!) When I typed it up, it was a totally different company! When I finally found the card, I had the domain name right, but instead of “.com” his web site was “.tv”.
(DON’T EVEN GO THERE!)
I was also handed a “business card” from another Network Marketer, (Not Travel, but MLM) it was on construction paper!
And if it is two separate businessed, you are now saying it is not and that if you are a RTA, you are automatically a non producing rep?
The vast majority of my team are only interested in booking travel. While 99% of them signed as both Rep and RTA’s most don’t even know they can log into their Rep site. (I got a call this week from an RTA that needed to change her address info and couldn’t find it because it’s on the Networking side.) All account information, billing address, and domain registration are only configured on the Rep side.
So, yes, I would have to say you are correct that they count as a non producing Rep.
Money goes to the people who are working the business.
ReplyDelete_____________________________
I can understand that money goes to those working the business. But, if someone drops out you would think that they would redirect to another working the business in the up-line. You're saying that your wife's site doesn't redirect to you? If you are trying to build a business you would think you'd want as many clients as possible.
I'm sorry -- this is just plain stupid and means to me that the company doesn't really give a dang on travel sales.
When my Mary Kay rep left he directed me to someone else for future sales. It wasn't -- I'm gone so even if you liked the product you're out of luck.
John,
ReplyDeleteYou are sadly way off with this topic... as TravelPro has pointedout to you.
If you opt out as an RTA, you can still be a REP (whether active or inactive). As a REP, there's absolutely NO monthly fees for you to pay. You DON'T have a booking engine (travel portal) anymore. You can still receive checks from YTB for your downline.
Now, if someone wants to opt out of the REP (and YTB entirely, that person must call YTB, and it will be done.
and if the ex Mary Kay rep was bitter about the taste the Kaybots left in her mouth, she would *NOT* direct future customers to her "rep" or "director" in a Mary Kay situation. The ex person does not want her friends/family to be stalked (and let me tell you, the majority of them will stalk if they have the contact info) by the "Scary Kay Lady" who also will try to recruit them out from under you, after having given you plenty of warning that this could happen. Sort of "if ya snooze, ya lose". I always thought it made more sense for me to keep them as a customer, not a "team mate". They would usually send them to EBAY (you'll see tons of MK which is "NOT" supposed to be sold on EBAY) and usually it's reps who are trying to recoupe some of their financial losses when they were frontloaded with product from the very first few days of "signing on" and unable to send back after their 1yr (even though it's a rolling 1 yr which no one ever tells you about). Mary Kay is one of the most deceitful bunch of MLM'ers out there, right along with the rest of them. They only tell you what they think you want to hear, they gloss over the truth with dreams of Pink Cadillacs and Pink McMansions!! ewwwwwwwww
ReplyDeleteMary Kay corp is not what I would consider to be a very honest corporation. I've seen lots of deceit being taught there.
This is a perfect example of how frustrating it is trying to communicate with all of you.
ReplyDelete“You're saying that your wife's site doesn't redirect to you?”
Well, yes, I guess that’s what I’m saying, because I’m not in Mary Kay, I’m in YTB. I don’t know why a Mary Kay customer would be transferred over to a YTB rep. I also happen to be male, and while I do understand the business model and it makes absolute perfect sense to me there is one small problem.
I don’t do makeup. ;-P
(Please tell me you at least understand Mary Kay is a cosmetic company. It’s been around over 4 decades now.)
when my Mary Kay rep left he directed me to someone else for future sales. It wasn't -- I'm gone so even if you liked the product you're out of luck.
To have all of you ignore the same thing happened to all the customers of Brick and Mortar Agencies who have closed their doors in retail shops all over the country is alarming to me. Hundreds of thousands of them over the past decade. I know of 3 just in my general area that are no longer there and I have no earthy idea of where they have gone, nor is their business number in the phone book connected to find out if they have relocated.
Ignoring it doesn’t make you right and YTB wrong. That dog just won’t hunt.
While it sucks being SOL…it happens.
Proud--please read. I am not talking about a REP I am only a RTA. I only want to sell travel and I quit. I am not as shrewd as some and do not have a unique URL so I use the one generated by YTB for my marketing.
ReplyDeletePlain and simple if someone comes to that site after I am gone, it is a dead end road and YTB has no way of even attempting to salvage or close the sale. If you 1000 downline RTAs all of a sudden closed up shop and no longer sold travel, would it not make you happy to have that traffic diverted to you--the upline since you are so supportive of them and had invested all this time and energy to make sure they succeeded.?
Free business advice to YTB is no longer being doled out. It is apparent to me why Scott only got that 45 minutes of higher education he was talking about.
Doug--hundreds of thousands? Come on. In the pre-911 days there were close to 50K agencies in the country. Home based was not as significant as it is now, so I will give you there may have been another 50K in home based. There was attrition and via mergers and acquisitions and closings there are now about 25K agencies in the nation. Hundreds of thousands going out of business not so. But it is a good number that you are fed just like 80% of the people book online. If that is true--you personally ought to be fearful for your business since you do a lot off line. I will buy 80% investigate online but book --not a chance. ANd that number also includes real live travel agents utilizing vendor sites to book for clients.
Thanks for the link to the UK blog that discusses the British travel landscape---not sure it has much bearing on the US
Doug,
ReplyDeleteLet's see if I can simplify.
On your site, you have an affiliate link to AdwordsListBuilding with your custom url. /vip/1424
If you become an inactive affiliate for AdwordsListBuilding, or you enter an invalid id, the site owner is still smart enough to redirect to one of his main site pages to make the sale.
YTB isn't smart enough to be doing this, so they are losing sales.
Doug said:
ReplyDelete"This is a perfect example of how frustrating it is trying to communicate with all of you."
Well, back at ya Doug. You don't seem to get it at all. You believe the garbage you are fed from the top and will not concede any of the truths we have been telling you. Obviously, you are easily swayed and manipulated. I grant you may make money and you present yourself well but you are an MLM addict in need of serious intervention.
OK--put it this way. Orbitz and Travelocity decide to merge. Orbitz goes away. What happens to the Orbitz website. Does it go to a dead page like the YTB page with no means of grabbing the customer? Or does it redirect to Travelocity?
ReplyDeleteSometimes you guy are just so frikken dense!
If the rta doesn't pay their monthly fees - they forfeit their entitlements.
ReplyDeleteThe websites, etc are the property of ytb - the rta just "leases" them so to speak.
No harm done - again just john making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Tom
John, No, I wouldn't want the clients from "closed up sites". The clients I have, I worked hard to obtain. If those clients who boked through someone before they closed up, are happy wiht he service of YTB, then they can easily find another RTA. We're out there.
ReplyDeleteI also noticed a comment about having either 1 or 2 links to an RTAs website. Well, I only have 1, and it goes to my home page. Why? Well, it's simple. Not only can potential clients see information about YTB... they also can see my contact info... and a picture of me.
Proud...does that link look like A or B?:
ReplyDeleteA) http://www.ytb.com/proudtobeytb
B) http://www.proudtobeytb.com
Unlike others here John. You don't and won't ever book enough travel to have me want you as a recruit. Your barrel of lies about YTB, the business model and the mis-information you spout off here daily is becoming petty and boring. The longer it goes on, the
ReplyDeletefunnier YTB's continued success in spite of it all, will make you look. Something you may want to consider.
One more thing. Sure your travel management people see that all ex-agents get those commissions. Get Real!
RobertsResorts.Net
"Sure your travel management people see that all ex-agents get those commissions."
ReplyDeleteOf course they do, its all specified in their contract (at least mine are). They could sue otherwise.
Earl--thanks for coming back. The intellectualism of these posts was looking to approach high school level and we needed someone like you to bring it back down! Good job old man!
ReplyDeleteAnd more ignorance of the industry I see. Independent contractors know how much they sold and how much they are entitled to and they will (and ought to)sue to get it if not paid. It is in their contracts.
Employees are different depending on how they are compensated--salary, then no. Commission, probably. But it all depends on how much work is left to do to complete a particular booking.
If someone had a client traveling, I say they are entitled to the full remuneration. If all they did was give them a brochure and it needed to be closed and handled, then not!
Again, seriously, thanks for offering your two cents!
To have all of you ignore the same thing happened to all the customers of Brick and Mortar Agencies who have closed their doors in retail shops all over the country is alarming to me. Hundreds of thousands of them over the past decade. I know of 3 just in my general area that are no longer there and I have no earthy idea of where they have gone, nor is their business number in the phone book connected to find out if they have relocated
ReplyDeleteWhat you don't seem to understand Doug is than many many of those B&M gencies just converted to a home based model and their clients know exactly how to find them. Just becasue you don't see a building doesn't mean they don't exist anymore.
Most of them have their own agency sites as well. It's laughable that YTB perpetuates the myth that they are the pioneers on internet travel sales.
Proud, you don't make sense saying that you wouldn't want clients from other RTA's closed sites. That is unless you really don't care about actually selling travel and earning commissions. In the real world agents may leave agencies but the agencies do want to retain the clients and thus the income. If a client was happy with their old ytb RTA you would think their upline at least would want to try to retain the client and thus grow their business.
ReplyDeleteIsn't the idea behind being an RTA to sell travel?
Mine looks like neither John. I bouight a domain name. Just taking the business one step further.
ReplyDeleteListen to me annymous. I take pride in gaining my own clients and serving my own clients. I gain clients by talking with them face to face... or on the phone or by e-mail... or even all 3 if they are referred to me by another client of mine. I know them and they know me. Maybe you'd rather acquire clients by default, but not me.
To know my clients and have them know me aside fom just a website with contact info and a photo makes perfect sense.
and no, my website isn't www.proudtobeytb.com
ReplyDeleteMaybe it should be... LOL!!!
And John, you said that you were just (hypothetically) an RTA and not a REP. Well, it's simple to quit. just stop paying your monthly fee, and mail back your credentials. You're done, and your website is eliminated from the database... like you never even existed.
ReplyDeleteProud--that was not the point at all. And quitting takes a letter or form sent to YTB--not just mailing back credentials. And they will continue to charge the account or draft the bank till they are dishonored.
ReplyDeleteMy point is that if I quit, one would think that YTB might have an interest in retaining some of the business I may have directed to the company--guess not!
Wrong! John, if you do want to stop paying, then stop paying. if you want to start up again, all you have to do is pay the $49.95... no matter how many months it has been. You don't get penalized like a credit card for not paying.
ReplyDeleteDUH!!!
In our back office, in our accounts... there's a place where it states "payment options". Just delete all that info, and YTB will no longer charge you.
ReplyDeleteIt's not rocket science.
Also, if you quit, yes, it would be professional to send a letter back to YTB along with your credentials.
Hey I paid good money for the cards, I sure as hell aint gonna send them back unless they refund me my money. They belong to me!
ReplyDeleteProud--I am not talking about finance charges.
ReplyDeleteI am saying that if you decide to quit, YTB will continue to process a charge or draft an account till the form is submitted. This has been verified by several RTAs and it is spelled out (I believe but I will go check) in the agreement.
Proud...I am right. WHy is it that I know more about your business than you?
ReplyDeleteFrom the RTA agreement:
15. Refunds: The initial license fee, which includes one month of licensed use of RTA's travel booking website, and the
monthly RTA license fee, are each refundable if written (or email) cancellation is received by YTBTN within 5 days of
payment; each is non-refundable thereafter. All cancellations are effective when received in writing by YTBTN. Credit card
chargebacks, if initiated by RTA to obtain a refund, will be honored by YTBTN as a cancellation notice only when received
by YTBTN from the credit card issuing bank (usually several weeks after chargeback is sought), and will result in a $25.00
unauthorized refund surcharge to RTA if received by YTBTN after a 5-day cancellation period has expired.
Anon--you do need to return the cards--they are property of YTB and that too is in the agreement!
John;
ReplyDeleteThey are correct.
The line item you reference pertains to "refund" and cancellation within 5 days. In this case, both RTA and Rep page are deleted from the system.
What are those who wish to cancel suppose to do after day 5?
YTB Legal will review refunds past the 5 day limit on a case by case basis, most however will simply cancel without refund.
What we are speaking of is cancellation of your RTA agreement months down the road.
It's a simple Support Ticket in the back office found under Cancellation, e-mail, or phone call at that point.
(You can also delete your CC info in the back office which will only suspend the account for about a month or two and then cancel.)
They are also correct that if you would like to restart, it is a simple matter of starting the monthy $49.95 without having to rejoin at the sign up price. (If no refund is given.)
The cards do belong to YTB.
Thank you Doug. John, once again, it has been proven that you realy don't know a thing.
ReplyDeleteAbout the 5 day thing. To clarify, this is if you choose to cancel your account within 5 days after you have paid your monthly fee. It will be refunded.
Um...let me take a crack at this.
ReplyDeleteI think the point really being made is that if YTB is truly in the game to sell travel as they all claim - then what sense does it make to have 10's of thousands of dollars of marketing materials out in circulation and do nothing to capture the travel sales that would result even if the RTA leaves YTB?
It again begs the question - what business is YTB really in?
Proud - by your logic - you will only ever be able to sell travel to someone who has never traveled before as you never want to get a customer who has purchased from someone else.
ReplyDeleteFor the record I wasn't talking about finance charges either. It was just an analogy. Maybe I should have used a cellphone bill instead to compare it to. I'm sorry that unless something is completely spelled out for you, you will not understand it.
ReplyDeleteI can see it now. John is just clawing and digging groves into his desk with his lettter opener.
ReplyDeleteGreat job Proud and Travelpro!
Have you two been to Red Carpet Day? I went to my first one. The HQ really is a sight to see if you haven't been there yet.
I will only be able to seel to those who have never traveled before??? Where did you get that from????
ReplyDeleteListen, if an RTA who has clients decides to quit, and doesn't refer those clients to someone else, then they are lost clients. It isn't within my control. I don't know who my downline has for clients. My upline doesn't know who my clients are. It is up to the person who decides to opt out to refer those clients to someone else.
surely, you are sadly misunderstanding the point, and with that said, I am done talking to you.
Yes, I have been to Red Carpet Day a few times. I haven't been recently though, but some other RTAs in my team have, and showed me recent pictures of how well it's coming along. All I have to say is that HQ will truely be spectacular in its entirety!
ReplyDeleteDoug--a few months back you sent me an email offering to intercede on behalf of an RTA trying to quit. You advised me that they were required to notify YTB in writing which I passed along to the RTA. I am assuming the policy has changed, but according to the agreement, YTB still requires written notice
ReplyDelete14. Cancellation: RTA may cancel this agreement at any time by written or email notice to YTBTN.
She wanted a "full refund" John, it was not a simple cancellation and it was past the 5 day "remorse buyers" period. If I recall there was an additional month or two tacked on. (That might have been someone else asking me however.)
ReplyDeleteLike I said, Legal will review these types of refunds on a case by case basis and very often grant it.
A simple Support Ticket under Cancellation is the quickest way to cancel, which is a form of e-mail and is specified in Line 14 of the agreement. It's secure, and they know it's from you, as you should be the only one who has access to the user name and password to submit the ticket.
A support ticket also ensures that it gets to the right department. Ask the Red Carpet guys, we have dozens of departments and hundreds of employees now at the home office.
The problem with most who want to quit or cancel however is that they don’t have the first clue how to log into their back office, so most do send it snail mail.
Doug, how many times do we have to repeat this for John to understand? Is he going to make a new topic out of it?
ReplyDelete(a humorous response... of course)
"The problem with most who want to quit or cancel however is that they don’t have the first clue how to log into their back office, so most do send it snail mail."
ReplyDeleteInteresting!
Yeah...I find it interesting too.
ReplyDeleteYou spend all that money for a business, and don't even remember where you left the keys to the business.
It's a simple user name and password.
meanwhile...
ReplyDeleteJohn is stil bewildered and trying to figure out how to opt out. LOL!!!