After two recent posts, it has been said (ad nauseum) that YTB has resolved the issued in Lindauer's letter. As it pertains to YTB (not their other ventures), there were four major points which were not in compliance with "State and Federal Marketing Laws and Regulations". While one of the issues may have been addressed after the fact, the rest remain unresolved to my knowldge. The following is an excerpt from Ted Lindauer's letter of January 3, 2008 which was sent via UPS Overnight to Scott Tomer and the Board of Directors of YTB International, Inc.
A. Compliance with State and, Federal Marketing Laws and Requlations. (The matters described in this Section A have been learned from the public websites of the various YTB International, Inc. subsidiaries in use on December 15, 2007).Travelpro has provided a document that says the Reps are not required to pay for the travel agent training to receive the payment in this program. That is true, but the document was produced after receipt of this letter. The problem may indeed be resolved, but it was solved out of reaction. Travelpro has also said it was resolved before this blog posted about the Lindauer letter in mid January. That has no bearing.
1. YTB Reps are required to purchase CRTA Training in order to participate in multilevel commissions in several sales programs including, but not limited to, commissions on the sale of travel, commissions in the Car Referral Program and commissions on the purchase of travel by members and affiliates of non-profit RTAs. These required purchases in each instance violate the civil and criminal provisions of multiple states' antipyramid laws and lottery laws, constitute deceptive trade practices under Section 5 of the Federal Trade Commission Act, violate the U. S. Postal Service Lottery regulations and constitute the unlawful offer and sale of unregistered investment securities under state and federal securities laws.
2. The description of the Car Referral Program is such as to require that the participating RTAs and YTB Travel Network of Illinois, Inc. register as automobile salespersons and/or automobile dealers in various states. No such registrations have been made.The documentation provided by Travelpro and anyone else simply does not address this. I do know for a fact that in Maryland and in Pennsylvania, one must have an individual license to sell cars. Has YTB acquired the proper licenses for their 140,000 RTAs that are offering cars for sale on their sites?
3. The Two Fly Free program offered to the public by RTAs of YTB Travel Network of Illinois, Inc. constitutes the offer and sale of Travel Club Memberships and/or Club Memberships and/or Discount Buying Service Organization Memberships requiring the obtaining of licenses and the posting of surety bonds in various states prior to their offer and sale. These licenses have not been obtained to date in all of the states which require such licenses.This program is still being heavily promoted on all RTA sites. Have the required bonds and licenses been acquired for the 140,000 RTAs that are promoting this product?
4. The disclosures provided in connection with the promotion of the RTA medical/dental/prescription program are insufficient and result in YTB Travel Network of Illinois, Inc being an unlicensed insurance provider (PPO) in various states. In addition, any direct or indirect monetary benefit received by a YTB company or anyone affiliated therewith in connection with the purchase of these plans by RTAs must be adequately disclosed. Further, California law prohibits the offer and sale of the prescription plan until the plan provider has registered with the appropriate state agency.I am not sure how many RTAs have opted to purchase this insurance, but I wonder if the issues have been resolved. Have the disclosures been corrected? Have the disclosures been made? Has YTB applied, been approved and complied with the California regulations?
YTB may have addressed one of these four issues and everyone on the YTB front seems content with that. AS Mark Ewing has asked, why is there not even some minimal questioning. If you are serious about your business, Your Travel Biz, why are you not concerned?
John;
ReplyDeleteI'd like to address these issues; however, I also have a life outside of responding to your questions.
I'll have some questions for YOU concerning these issues that we can discuss at a later time and date.
Actually, I'll take that back...since we need something to talk about...
YTB Travel Network of Illinois, Inc being an unlicensed insurance provider (PPO).
How is it that YTB is the "insurance provider"? Isn't Blue Cross Blue Shield or Beach Street the "provider"?
I could be wrong here, but to me that sounds like AT&T needs to be an insurance provider. (Or for that matter CLIA and their medical benefits program for CLIA card holders.)
I'm not saying its right or wrong, but that wording just sounds strange to me.
I'll go back to enjoying my day with my family and let you guys hash over this "issue". ;-P
I am not asking you to respond. I am just putting it out there for discussion.
ReplyDeletePerhaps you ought to ask Ted about the unlicensed PPO, but I would assume that by offering it to non-employees (you are all ICs) that you are in effect reselling it in the eyes of some jurisdictions.
When your kids get older, it is nice that you can actually have some morning time while they sleep in!
Who says they sleep in? LOL!
ReplyDeleteI as an RTA don't "resell" any such PPO. It's merely a benefit offered by YTB (Direct) like you would with AT&T if you were employed through them.
There is no RTA incentive (direct or indirect) to "sell" this program, other then having personal medical coverage for myself and my family.
Ted makes it sound like I actually sell this program, which I (nor any other RTA) do not.
To me, that's what it looks like he's trying to say.
Of course, Ted was out of the loop since September. So his understanding of what this actually is could be construed as another package like Cars, or Fly Free.
By the way...if Lifestyle Vacation Incentives will determines the carrier, routing and city airport from a gateway city, are they not the ones to be bonded?
(Honest question.)
Ooops...the wife just got up...
ReplyDeleteNOW I have to spend time with the family.
Providing an insurance policy free of charge certainly isn't selling or being a PPO.
ReplyDeleteJohnny always stretching the facts - or in this case the gibberish . . .
LOL - Too funny . . .
Tom
The angle I see from Ted is not that the RTAs are selling insurance but YTB is selling the insurance to the RTAs.
ReplyDeleteUnder most group policies it is limited to EMPLOYEES of the company. Some companies foot the entire bill or a part of it as a benefit, others do not foot any of it but the group rate is discounted and the benefit offered to EMPLOYEES is the perk even though it is paid for out of the employee paycheck.
In MD anyhow, I am unable to offer my group policy to anyone that is not an EMPLOYEE. My ICs need to figure out another way.
YTB is offering insurance to some of their directors and the RTAs that produce a lot of sales. This is not the program Ted is talking about I don't think.
The program being discussed is the basic plan that YTB is re-selling to all RTAs. By the virtue of them NOT being employees of YTB, they likely are not eligible under the company group policy. And if YTB was to re-sell it (as they appear to be doing), then in fact they are acting as an insurer. Otherwise, the RTAs would just buy individual policies direct with the insurance company.
My kids crash till 10 or 11 on weekends--it's nice!
Tom--go see if you can scam the Harris family out of some of their $270M. Stop by the lottery store and see if they have any clues and buy one!
ReplyDeleteWe are talking about the cheap not so great coverage that YTB offers to SELL each RTA in the program.
Coach took care of all of this.
ReplyDeleteBesides, we are members of the DSA. Since they don't allow companies in the DSA that violate laws, this is a dead issue.
Go and look up YTB on the DSA website. You will see that we are 1 of 2 travel companies that they have admited into the DSA.
Sorry to kill your "issues" John, but this is all taken care of.
Maybe the DSA does not know about this. It was brought up AFTER YTB joined. Why don't you brng it their attention and see if all ia well, Anon?
ReplyDeleteJohn,
ReplyDeleteHow can we get a copy of this letter from Ted Lindauer that you are talking about?
The letter was on Linder's website
ReplyDeletehttp://www.mlmlawyer.com/images/Stockholder_letter.pdf
and there was an explanation of the circumstances surrounding his termination as well
http://www.mlmlawyer.com/forumdocs/ytb010408.doc
"Since they don't allow companies in the DSA that violate laws, this is a dead issue."
ReplyDeleteBWaHhahahahahahahahahahha!
What if someone joins and then breaks a law? What then?
Has anyone ever filed a DSA ethics complaint against YTB?
The BBB site allows you to see if any BBB complaints were filed against a company - does the DSA?
John - a company can offer a "group" type policy to anyone they wish - it doesn't have to be "employees".
ReplyDeleteIt is up to the Insurance Company that underwrites the policy to determine if "they" wish to extend a program or benefits to a company to share with others.
Evidently - YTB was able to secure a contract that provides the stated benefits - so what?
Tom
p.s. - got cruisin_man id as a blogger id now - so no more imposter's.
Tom
Tom, I know you spent about 19 hours studying for your insurance MLM deal, but you are no more an insurance expert than you are a travel expert.
ReplyDeleteI cannot speak for other states, but here in MD, it is not allowed by state regulation to offer insurance to someone that is not a member of the group being insured. Membership is defined as employed, not contracted. I tried to offer something for my ICs and it was turned down repeatedly. There are a few special exceptions here, like a Chamber of Commerce can offer it to their members--while they are not employees, because of their status as a not for profit organization, but it is only available to individuals--not their families and not their employees.
Maybe they will cover that in your next class of How To Be An Insurance Agent In 5 Easy Steps
I've been an independent contractor or franchise for close to 20 years. Corporate has never been able to offer us a medical plan to purchase for ourselves because we are not employees. Too many different states do not permit insurance sales to non-employees.
ReplyDeleteMaybe YTB found a loop hole or maybe they are in violation in some (or all) states. With Ted asking this question I would think that this is something that RTA's would want to verify to see if they are in compliance.
It may be a moot point as the program is really a bottom of the barrel policy. Probably on ly good for catastrophic issues, but then again, maybe that is what they want.
ReplyDeleteI have a copy of the plan if you want.
This is much ado about nothing (as usual) YTB does not promote this as a major medical program. YTB is upfront about it being limited benefits program. And no one has to sign up for it!
ReplyDeleteIt's typical that you would call it a bottom of the barrel program, John . . . insinuating that YTB is promoting it as a major medical program when they have not. It is more a type of gap coverage and many people have taken advantage of it knowing full well what it is. There are many people who do not have any type of health coverage. They either cannot health coverage or cannot qualify for it. YTB offers it to all RTAs. The benefits are straight forward as to what will or will not be paid.
In today's society, corporations are being vilified for not offering health benefits. YTB is trying to do something right and now we're the bad guys.
Typical anti-YTB/MLM rhetoric from the cynical worlds of John Freneye and Mark Ewing.
It IS a bottom of the barrel program and I never said it was a major medical deal. THe brochure does say that it is not intended to replace.
ReplyDeleteI am not sure what you mean by no one has to sign up for it. No it is not mandatory, but to get it, you DO Have to sign up for it. I can send you the PDF of the program if you like.
It is great that YTB is offering it in the wake of most companies reducing the benefit. But offering it legally and illegally is two different things.
Regardless if it is top of the line or bottom of the barrel, it IS insurance. The premiums are paid TO YTB and not the insurer, so that really defines YTB as the insurer. Now unless this is a self insured program where YTB handles ALL of the aspects, I say that Ted has a good point about it putting YTB in a legal pickle as being an unlicensed insurance provider in several jurisdictions.
And why is it that YTB always says something is much ado about nothing:
RCCL
IATAN
Attorney
Insurance
Seligman
and on and on and on
Who is telling you that "the premiums are paid TO YTB and not the insurer, so that really defines YTB as the insurer"?
ReplyDeleteI am quite confident that the premiums are not collected by YTB. I just called one of my RTAs who has the coverage. He looked it up and said the monthly draft goes to Standard Security Life at their Austin, TX center.
Sound all very legal to me.
The Program flyer says that it will be charged by YTB to the credit card on file along with the monthly fee
ReplyDeleteJohn, YTb is NOT seling the insurance to the RTAs. The insurance companies have set up these rates for the people of YTB. have you ever heard of the tern "Group Rate"? Every company that has insurance through a major provider has this.
ReplyDeleteWal-Mart has it
Sweetbay has it
Publix has it
Target has it
Home Depot has it
The firm I worked for before YTB has it
do they sell the insurance to their associates? NO! The insurance companies do!
It is the same with YTB!
How could you not understand this?????
The Program flyer says that it will be charged by YTB to the credit card on file along with the monthly fee
ReplyDeletethis just states the manner of how the RTAs will pay for their insurance... by the credit card on file at the same day and time the monthly fee is paid.
Dear Proud to be almost as smart as my dog---
ReplyDeleteI know all about group rates. They are for..please listen carefully...EMPLOYEES! I will disclaim that I know it is FACT in MAryland (a top YTB state) but I would assume it is similar in other jurisdictions.
If you WORK FOR Walmart, you are entitled to be on their group. If you WORK FOR target you are entitled. You are NOT entitled because you SHOP there.
You do not WORK for YTB as far as I know. If you do, then you are entitled. But as an IC you are not.
It STATES that YTB will charge the card. WHat part don;t YOU understand?
John, John, John...
ReplyDeleteAgain, you fail to understand. There's no getting through to you. Your dog must be a genius for me to be almost as smart as it. You're not quite as smart as me, so... I take your words as a compliment. Now go fetch the next issue of Enquirer. GOOD BOY!!!
Hey, you started with the insults John. Now ROLL OVER!
ReplyDeleteGOOD BOY!!!
lbtravel said...
ReplyDeleteThis is much ado about nothing (as usual) YTB does not promote this as a major medical program. YTB is upfront about it being limited benefits program.
No, YTB promotes this as being Health Insurance as if it's something someone would actually want. At the meeting I went to we were told that many former pro athletes have joined YTB just for the health insurance benefits. What a hoot! The actual coverage is pretty lame.
The initial plan is stated to be a limited benefits program through Beech tree. Then when a person becomes a Director, the insurance switches over to BC/BS... top of the line policy, and it's FREE!!!
ReplyDeleteI should know, because I have it!
YTB Travel Network has a copyrighted compensation plan and offers health & dental insurance to all affiliates. That is unheard of in the world of MLM's!!!
ReplyDeleteThe above come-on is part of a posting on a cruise message board from today. It sounds great... and doesn't say anything about being supplemental or gap or limited...or the lamest policy you'll ever see.
TRUTH:
ReplyDeleteThe initial plan is claimed to be reason enough to join YTB...just for that alone. I was at a recruitment meeting. I heard it. I have a copy of it.
PTB---you are impossible...send me your email address and I will send you the document so you can make an attempt at speaking intelligently.
ReplyDeleteBeech STREET (not Tree) is a network of doctors and hospitals that you can see if you like. You are not required to use the network, but it will save you out of pocket expenses if you do.
The insurance is underwritten by Standard Security Life Insurance Company of New York.
Ah, you know it! I was just making sure. He's got a brain in there after all folks!
ReplyDeleteyes, i know it's Beech Street, and yes i know who it's underwritten by. I still have a copy of that document myself to share it with my downline.
In return, theu offer it to YTB to offer it totheir RTAs under a GROUP PACKAGE RATE!!!!
ReplyDeleteCompanies are not limited to just offering insurance to their "employees". they can also offer it to their affiliates if they choose to. The main point is that it IS offered to us, and that puts YTB quite a few steps ahead of all other MLM companies out there!!! Yeah, it's unheard of, because YTB is the FIRST to do it!
This whole thread is funny. The non YTB people seem to know more about the YTB stuff than those in the stupid company!
ReplyDeleteThis Proud To Be YTB should have his or her face emblazoned on the posters for YTB with the caption "we take anyone and I am proof"
Every time he or she is caught in a lie, it is always ---oh yeah, wekll I knew that I was just testing to see if you really knew it.
Like you are pulling the wool over anyones eyes.
Hey I just realized, if you rearrage your name it spells Tubby Torpedo
Proud---go check with Prepaid Legal and let me know if it is legal. I am not denying that YTB offers it. Their own lawyer said it was likely illegal.
ReplyDeleteIn Maryland, companies cannot offer their insurance to anyone other than employees--that is the law. So if a MD RTA has it thru YTB, YTB is breaking the law!
But, YTB is a reactionary company as we have seen. It is better to beg forgiveness than to ask permission. You did not play by the rules with the SEC and were caught and booted from the stock exchange. You failed to play by the rules with IATAN and you were tossed. You failed to play by the rules regarding CHARGING for the CRTAs and you quick issued a change of policy AFTER you were caught. You did not play by the rules with RCI and their brands so they terminated your contract.
So please explain to me why I should think that YTB would all of a sudden decide to play by the rules on this issue? Because Coach said so? Because you think so?
Come on, grow up Proud and take your head out of the sand. If you personally go to China, there will be a lot of red flags flying all over the place, but I imagine you will walk around and see nothing.
LOL!!! You are quite funny insider.
ReplyDeleteyeah, this blog is funny, but in the opposite effect. John claims he knows it all, but really doesn't. when he gets proven wrong on something, he starts clawing for a new topic to start up... and it's pissing him off. That's the most hilarious part of it. If I ever have a bad day, i know I could easily come here for a good laugh.
Hey Tubby Torpedo---if you don;t like that....how does this fit?
ReplyDeleteYTB Probed Out!
John has never claimed to know it all. Please source your information.
ReplyDeleteWhen proven wrong, John will admit it. When someone cannot prove him wrong he does not acquiesce. There is a difference.
There are fresh topics all the time; none of which are created because you proved him wrong.
Pissing him off. Not even close Proud. The idiocy you provide on an almost daily basis is enough to keep me entertained. Your misinformed posts bring me much laughter. And your lack of rudimentary business knowledge is the source of many of the topics.
But that's ok, because Coach told you so, and you paid $500 and have a credit card receipt to prove you are in the business.
Congratulate yourself, you and Earl are in a league by yourselves. Legends withing their own minds.
And speaking of legends in their own minds, I am starting to figure you out a little more. Seems you are exaggerating quite a bit now doesn't it Proud? Director? Well maybe not yet...just maybe you have...oh quite a few more people to go before you get to that level. But I guess your imagination can keep you going for now. You work on that directorship and I will keep on digging on my end...ok?
Booted from the stock exchange????
ReplyDeleteAgain, you are still misinformed john. Here's today's stock ticker.
YTBLA.PK Stock Price: $0.97 [Details]
Yep, stocks are still there!
John, I already am a Director. Who do you think I am? Go ahead and tell me wise one... LOL!!!
ReplyDeleteYou already called me Kevin... when Kevin is a level 3 Director... 2 levels above me.
You never cease to amuse me.
Dig Johnny dig!!!
ReplyDeleteProud--
ReplyDeleteFrom YTB's 10KSB Filed on 4/2/2007
Until recently, our common stock was quoted on the Over-The-Counter Bulletin
Board (the "OTC-BB") under the symbol YTBL.OB. Because of our inability to
remain current in our periodic reporting obligation under the Securities
Exchange Act of 1934, as amended (the "Exchange Act"), our common stock has been
moved for quotation to the Pink Sheets under the symbol YTBL.PK.
ANd if you are curious as to the status of a company that trades on the pinks:
What Delisting Means for the Company
When a stock is officially delisted in the United States, there are two main places it can trade:
* Over the Counter Bulletin Board (OTCBB) - This is an electronic trading service offered by the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (FINRA, formerly the NASD); it has very little regulation. Companies will trade here if they are current in their financial statements.
* Pink Sheets - Even riskier than the OTCBB, the pink sheets are a quotation service. They do not require that companies register with the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) or remain current in their periodic filings. The stocks on the pink sheets are very speculative.
I am surprised that as a "director" you were not informed of that. But then again...
Eventually Proud, you will be outted for the "little white lies" you have been telling. Not yet, but soon.
Yeah... ok... if you say so Johnny.
ReplyDeletehehe this will be good...ole proud has been proven wrong most times before and jon seems to like to expose her...anyone care to wager on who comes outon top of this one?? I got $5 that jon has something on her...
ReplyDeleteY'know...I've already deleted a couple of things I've written because I'm getting the feeling that responding to Proud is like picking on the kids from the short bus...
ReplyDelete9:11 post was me,,,Iontop
ReplyDeleteOne question...why would someone who claims to have done so well with YTB choose to remain anonymous about it?
Gee... $.97
ReplyDeleteDown from $18.00 with a three way split on the way down....
and just 3 cents off of the 52 week low....
Now there is some action to get in on! I might even sell some of my Enron stock so I can buy more YTB!
I am sure that Coach will sell me some of his stock. Oh wait, he already sold most of his stock.
Silly me.
I am not going to state my name here, because I don't want to be contacted by anyone here.
ReplyDeleteI just wanted to thank John for this blog, and Mark Ewing his videos, for giving me this information on YTB.
My friend and co-worker has been after me to join for the last couple of weeks. She was really putting pressure on me, and her upline was out of control. They really try to make you feel like you are stupid for questioning things.
You have saved me from making a major mistake. I do not want to be involved with a company that has these issues, or that has people like the ones on this blog. I would like to be in the travel business, and enjoy all the benefits, and get rich. But I do not want to be in the mlm business. To push this on other people gives me a sick feeling. I don't care how much I could make. It doesn't feel right. And I wouldn't want to feel that I have to defend my company's short comings right from the start. I can just imagine if my customers found this blog. What would they think of me?
The RTA's on this blog are not even thinking straight. It is a madness. I really don't understand the blind faith that they have in this mlm company. It is really quite scary to me.
Reading this blog has helped me see this for what it is.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Anon said, "Thank you. Thank you. Thank you."
ReplyDeletelol!! Anon, you’re quite the hoaxer. It's oh so obvious your post content is bogus. Very clever though. You TTA's have me ROTFLMAO! Good try!
olescorekeeper
When I was first contacted about YTB, although it smelled like a scam, I checked it out online. I came to the same conclusion as the above 10:30 anonymous poster.
ReplyDeleteThe only difference is they didn't make me feel stupid for asking questions. They made me feel THEY were stupid because they didn't have any answers.
Hoax? I don't think so.
But I don't think there's even been ONE negative thing said about YTB that a YTBer has agreed with...hard to believe that this company is absolutely PERFECT.