Over the past six months or so the term "kool-aid" has been tossed around a bunch. It is a reference to the Jim Jones and The People's Temple in Guyana back in 1978. Many comments on here have indicated that MLM is very "cult" like.
I found a definition of "cult" that appears in several places and seems fairly consistent. What do you think?
Three ideas seem essential to the concept of a cult. One is thinking in terms of us versus them with total alienation from "them." The second is the intense, though often subtle, indoctrination techniques used to recruit and hold members. The third is the charismatic cult leader. Cultism usually involves some sort of belief that outside the cult all is evil and threatening; inside the cult is the special path to salvation through the cult leader and his teachings. The indoctrination techniques include
1) Subjection to stress and fatigue
2) Social disruption, isolation and pressure
3) Self criticism and humiliation
4) Fear, anxiety, and paranoia
5) Control of information
6) Escalating commitment
7) Use of auto-hypnosis to induce "peak" experiences
Of course, there is a positive side to cults. One gets love, a sense of belonging, of fulfilling a special purpose, of being protected, of being free from the evils of the world, of being on the path to eternal salvation, of having power. If the cult did not satisfy needs that life outside the cult failed to satisfy, cults would probably not exist
** I think it is funny that a film about cults (graphic) is represented by a pyramid!
There seem to be a lot of people who understand network marketing, and are actually good at it. I think it takes a certain kind of person to be successful in that kind of business. You have to be outgoing, and capable of building relationships and trust, therefore creating the "network" part of the network marketing. I would think that you would also have to be very confident in sales and influencing others.
ReplyDeleteMany people spend their lives feeling short changed, as though everyone else is luckier or was given some sort of advantage that they were not. YTB, and other mlms, deliver the message that " this is the place where everyone can be happy and successful! It's not just for those special people." It allows for the possibility that anyone can have the life they have always thought was out of their reach.
Scott Tomer says in his recruiting message that you don't have to be smart to make money in YTB, and that it doens't matter where you came from. But it does take a certain skill set to make it. And, if everyone in your particular social network is on food stamps and has never left the state, the chances of them making it big in a travel mlm are pretty slim. Their recruiting message sells the perks and the dream. I mean, who doesn't want to work from home and travel the world? Who doesn't want the pink cadillac? Who doesn't want to improve their place in life? Everyone does. And the mlm message is that "here is the place you can do it, no matter who you are or where you're from." Of course this attracts the disadvantaged and insecure who are desperate for a place to be accepted and successful. A smart guy like Doug, who seems credible has a good shot at making it in an mlm. A person on welfare is going to have a hard time convincing people to join their downline on the bus on the way to their janitorial job.
I am not surprised at the number of YTB members. Travel is glamorous. Everyone wants to lay on the beach with a drink in their hand. And with the message that it's a 7 trillion dollar industry being repeated time and again, it offers the belief that there is a big enough pie for everyone to have a slice.
I wouldn't hire an employee who I did not think was capable of doing the job. The fact that YTB has over 100,000 members, most of which are not making any money, certainly says something. I am just not sure what that something is.
Travel Temptress
I agree that the opportunity is out there for everyone. I also have the opportunity be elected president of the US in November. However, the odds are stacked decidedly against me. This is the key to the failure rate in MLM.
ReplyDeleteIf you do not posses the traits described by Travel Temptress, you are almost destined to fail and it will them be pointed out (as Proud is so quick to do) that YOU failed. Certainly the most charismatic sellers will rise to the top. But there is also the benefit of early adoption. The more involved, the more money the top makes.
Us versus them...sort of like you don't understand, we are taking over the travel world?
ReplyDeleteIntense indoctrination and recruitment...sort of like the teasers about the successes of the top of the pyramid and the insistence on attending the training and conventions because success is right there?
A charismatic cult leader...sort of like Coach?
Subjection to stress and fatigue...like you must recruit 6 to be a power team leader or to pitch everyone withing 3 feet of you?
Social disruption, isolation and pressure...like not associating with your friends and family if they do not buy into the program because "they don't know" and "they weren't there"?
Self criticism and humiliation...sort of like saying that if you don't succeed you are a failure and it is not YTBs fault?
Fear, anxiety and paranoia...like the pressures put on to sell the Carnival certificates when the industry seemed to shun the concept and the company?
Control of information...like changing sales figures, gleaning information, limited mis-information on the 2 Fly Free program?
Escalating commitment...like power team leaders, coach corner people, and the 7 levels of directorships?
Use of auto-hypnosis to include "peek" experiences....well, 9 out of 10 is not bad! Unless....
So, YTB scores a 90% on the Cult Test!
WOW!
Hey guys--just a blogger note. Apparently they have changed the software a bit in the comment posting. If you have a gmail or blogger account, (like I do and Doug does) you can post comments as that.
ReplyDeleteIf you are looking to use a name and not the anonymous, click the button for NAME/URL and you can put in whatever name you want there..or a URL if you like.
Anonymous is still available.
I don't know what the Open ID is all about--maybe some reading for me today!
Interesting post after the day I had yesterday and the comments written in the last post.
ReplyDelete1) Subjection to stress and fatigue
You don't seem to get it at all. You believe the garbage you are fed from the top and will not concede any of the truths we have been telling you. Obviously, you are easily swayed and manipulated. I grant you may make money and you present yourself well but you are an MLM addict in need of serious intervention.
2) Social disruption, isolation and pressure
We'll never get a straight answer on this, because we never get a straight answer on anything from YTB, or any MLM for that matter.
Why do all the YTB zealots continue to deflect answers?
3) Self criticism and humiliation
Wow -- what stupid management leaving cash (travel sales) on the table.
YTB isn't smart enough to be doing this, so they are losing sales.
I'm sorry -- this is just plain stupid and means to me that the company doesn't really give a dang on travel sales.
It is apparent to me why Scott only got that 45 minutes of higher education he was talking about.
4) Fear, anxiety, and paranoia
If that is true--you personally ought to be fearful for your business since you do a lot off line.
5) Control of information
Until you can answer the question about Phil and the good ole DR...you have no right to demand any answers from anyone.
6) Escalating commitment
I did do my own research, and found out nothing but the same claptrap that one would expect from an "anonymous" entity.
7) Use of auto-hypnosis to induce "peak" experiences
Taking you deep into fantasy land...I sign up as an RTA but not a rep. I get a RTA site that can handle bookings. My URL is ytbtravel.com/iwenttothedarkside
(This last one was just TOO perfect! LOL!)
All your comments, none from YTB or any other “Cult Victim MLM’er”
The one finger ya’ll have pointing at YTB and MLM’s has three pointing right back at ya! ;-P
Doug--not sure if the response above was addressed to me specifically, but I am not laying claim to most of those--one or two maybe but not all.
ReplyDeleteDoesn't even make sense...all those comments were ABOUT YTB.
ReplyDeleteWhat happened to the BIG NEWS in USA Today?
john -
ReplyDeleteyou know squat about mlm.
you are just a gray headed old hen on a crusade that is "destined to fail".
LOL - Too funny . . .
Tom
cruisin_man said...
ReplyDeletejohn -
you know squat about mlm.
you are just a gray headed old hen on a crusade that is "destined to fail".
LOL - Too funny . . .
Tom
Either I know squat or I DON'T know squat. Which is it? You DON'T know squat about how to make a sentence.
Yes I have grey hair---how astute of you.
And just out of curiosity, can you please explain how your comment related to this post beyond it being an opportunity to act like a first grader?
"Doesn't even make sense...all those comments were [made by us] ABOUT YTB."
ReplyDeleteLike Doug said, your one finger pointing at YTB has three pointing right back at you. In other words...If you want to have a true example of a cult take a look in the mirror.
Doug, that is CLASSIC!
A cult? Really?????
ReplyDeleteJust the title of this topic makes me laugh.
I guess Mary Kay, Avon, Amway (as poor of an excuse it is) are all cults as well???
As Tom tried to say, You really don't know squat about network marketing.
Please note that I never said YTB was a cult. I posted a definition of a cult and it seems that Proud and Tom and Doug all stepped to the plate to defend YTB. I just posted a definition and asked if there was a relationship.
ReplyDeleteWhere did I say they were a cult? Sort of like when LB said he struck a nerve the other day.
Just food for thought!
Oh my Gawd!
ReplyDeleteDang John, never realized you and your followers
were a CULT until I read the discription. Five or six of seven!
Thanks for the info, now I understand better what we've been dealing with here. A fringen CULT!
You are quite the researcher and writer my friend. I never really
looked at it that way until you
put it that way for me. Thanks.
And of course it also helps me better understand why so many of you have gone out of business of late. Number 4 had a lot to do with it I bet.
Keep up the good work friend. You should write for the Clintons.
RobertsResorts.Net
Google Mary Kay cult - you'll love the results.
ReplyDeleteSame goes for the others.
Enjoy!
There are actually a lot of sites comparing MLMs to cults...my favorite comparison was that they usually have a highly regarded leader with a changed name or who is referred to by a nickname.
ReplyDeleteBo, Peep,...Coach
** I think it is funny that a film about cults (graphic) is represented by a pyramid!
ReplyDeleteI think it's funny that our currency depicts an image of the same pyramid with the all seeing, all knowing eye.
Sounds like the corporate world...
1) Subjection to stress and fatigue
Working 40+ hours a week
2) Social disruption, isolation and pressure
Working in a cubicle... alone... struggling to meet a deadline.
3) Self criticism and humiliation
Am I good enough for the promotion? Will I get a promotion?
Yes Sir! I will get your coffee sir. Would you like me to stop by the cleaner's to pick up your suit?
4) Fear, anxiety, and paranoia
Our budget is forcing us to make some cut-backs. We are going to have to lay off a few people.
5) Control of information
Corporate CEOs know info that the employees never will.
Need I go on????
Proud---don't go on...just go...
ReplyDelete[b]Google Mary Kay cult - you'll love the results.[/b]
ReplyDeletedefinitely they are a cult. Just rent or order the "Hell on Heels" movie about Mary Kay from your local video store or Netflix. The woman worship this woman and even though she's dead, they STILL worship her!! Their mantra is "God first, Family 2nd, Career 3rd", but what it really is and should say is "Career 1st, God 2nd and Family 3rd" because you will be chastized if you put your family before your "career".
I am sure if you are in an mlm you find the comparison between the two rather offensive.
ReplyDeleteTake a look at the post from John a few weeks ago from the woman hadn't even joined YTB yet, but was livid that John was anti-ytb. She hadn't even joined yet but was so sure that YTB was her path to greater living that she was on the warpath. I would love to know what the heck was said to her in that meeting to sway her so quickly and so hard. Ah, love is blind.
And look at how many people come to this and other boards in defense of YTB who aren't even making any money with it. Doesn't anyone think that's a little odd?
Earl you should try John's cult. There's no kool-aid, but the mojitos are great!!
Travel Temptress
Just ask anyone who lives in the Grand Rapids MI area about Amway...
ReplyDeletejust because people worship someone from the past who is no longer alive... that makes them a cult???
ReplyDeleteI feel sorry for you if you put your career before your family, and God should always...always come first! If anyone has ever told me to choose between my career and my family, I will always choose my family before my career. I have missed enough of my kids school events and games because of work. I have missed special family events because of work. NO MORE! Now I don't miss a single thing when it comes to my family. If being married to your job is your thing... so be it. I am married to my wife, and she and my children are my life. They are what truely matters to me... first and foremost.
Yes this did strike a nerve, becuse this is what is so messed up with society today. People get so caught up in their careers, that they lose sight of their families. I know this, because I was at a point in my life where I barely saw my own family.
John said:
ReplyDelete“Doug--not sure if the response above was addressed to me specifically, but I am not laying claim to most of those--one or two maybe but not all.”
No, it was certainly meant to be an equal opportunity offense John. I just picked the best examples I could find. If you’d like to lay claim to being the leader, this is your blog and that’s certainly within your right.
John said:
“Please note that I never said YTB was a cult. I posted a definition of a cult and it seems that Proud and Tom and Doug all stepped to the plate to defend YTB. I just posted a definition and asked if there was a relationship.”
I provided examples (quotes from others if you will) to provide a better visual for everyone what in my opinion this definition looks like.
If YTB happened to be referenced once or twice during my copy and paste, so be it. (It certainly appears to be a major focus based on what was quoted.)
Do you agree that these examples define what’s being referenced?
We seem to all agree that Religious Organizations and MLM’s have been referenced to cults, and I simply offered up some examples to see if “Traditional Travel Agents” could be added to the list. Those were not my quotes, nor were they anyone else’s in MLM or Religous Organizations.
What do you think?
If I can poke fun at drinking Kool-Aid myself, and express openly how embarrassed I am over some of my fellow RTA’s actions and statements, is it too much to ask that some of the posters here take a look at what flavor they’re drinking?
Check out this website:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.rickross.com/
And, this one:
http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/groups/m/mlm/
http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=769&Itemid=9
Doug and I are now Cult Leaders?
ReplyDeleteLOL - Too funny . . .
Anyhoo -
Doug,
I'm off to build another cult - the next A L Williams. Want me to send you a sample of our special flavor Kool-Aid ? ? ?
See everyone in 90 days . . .
Tom
Tom---is that the lifespan of your companies? Get in, scam what you can in 90 days and be gone before anyone really catches on?
ReplyDeleteInteresting reading.
ReplyDeleteTen Big Lies of Multilevel Marketing
Robert L. Fitzpatrick
Here are ten lies I have identified during more than 20 years of observing the MLM marketplace:
Lie #1: MLM offers better opportunities than all other conventional
business and professional models for making large amounts of money.
Truth: For almost everyone who invests, MLM turns out to be a losing financial proposition. Fewer than 1% of all MLM distributors ever earn a profit and those earning a sustainable living at this business are a much smaller percentage still.
Extraordinary sales and marketing obstacles account for much of this failure, but even if the business were more feasible, sheer mathematics would severely limit the opportunity. The MLM business structure can support only a small number of financial winners. If a 1,000-person downline is needed to earn a sustainable income, those 1,000 will need one million more to duplicate the success. How many people can realistically be enrolled? Much of what appears as growth is in fact only the continuous churning of new enrollees. The money for the rare winners comes from the constant enrollment of armies of losers. With no limits on numbers of distributors in an area and no evaluation of market potential, the system is also inherently unstable.
Lie #2: Network marketing is the most popular and effective new way to bring products
to market. Consumers like to buy products on a one-to-one basis in the MLM model.
Truth: Personal retailing -- including nearly all forms of door-to-door selling -- is a thing of the past, not the wave of the future. Retailing directly to friends on a one-to-one basis requires people to drastically change their buying habits. They must restrict their choices, often pay more for goods, buy inconveniently, and engage in potentially awkward business relationships with close friends and relatives. In reality, MLM depends on reselling the opportunity to sign up more distributors.
Lie #3: Eventually all products will be sold by MLM. Retail stores, shopping malls,
catalogs and most forms of advertising will soon be rendered obsolete by MLM.
Truth: Fewer than 1% of all retail sales are made through MLM, and much of this is consists of purchases by hopeful new distributors who are actually paying the price of admission to a business they will soon abandon. MLM is not replacing existing forms of marketing. It does not legitimately compete with other marketing approaches at all. Rather, MLM represents a new investment scheme couched in the language of marketing. Its real products are distributorships that are sold through misrepresentation and exaggerated promises of income. People are buying products in order to secure positions on the sales pyramid. The possibility is always held out that you may become rich if not from your own efforts then from some unknown person ("the big fish") who might join your "downline."
MLM's growth does not reflect its value to the economy, customers, or distributors, but the high levels of economic fear, insecurity, wishes for quick and easy wealth. The market dynamics are similar to those of legalized gambling, but the percentage of winners is much smaller.
Lie #4: MLM is a new way of life that offers happiness and fulfillment.
It provides a way to attain all the good things in life.
Truth: The most prominent motivational themes of the MLM industry, as shown in industry literature and presented at recruitment meetings, constitute the crassest form of materialism. Fortune 100 companies would blush at the excess of promises of wealth, luxury, and personal fulfillment put forth by MLM solicitors. These appeals actually conflicts with most people's true desire for meaningful and fulfilling work at something in which they have special talent or interest.
Lie #5: MLM is a spiritual movement.
Truth: The use of spiritual concepts like prosperity consciousness and creative visualization to promote MLM enrollment, the use of words like "communion" to describe a sales organization, and claims that MLM fulfills Christian principles or Scriptural prophecies are great distortions of these spiritual practices. Those who focus their hopes and dreams upon wealth as the answer to their prayers lose sight of genuine spirituality as taught by religions. The misuse of these spiritual principles should be a signal that the investment opportunity is deceptive. When a product is wrapped in the flag or in religion, buyer beware! The "community" and "support" offered by MLM organizations to new recruits is based entirely upon their purchases. If the purchases and enrollment decline, so does the "communion.'"
Lie #6: Success in MLM is easy. Friends and relatives are the natural prospects.
Those who love and support you will become your life-time customers.
Truth: The commercialization of family and friendship and the use of"'warm leads" advocated in MLM marketing programs are a destructive element in the community and very unhealthy for individuals involved. People do not appreciate being pressured by friends and relatives to buy products. Trying to capitalizing upon personal relationships to build a business can destroy one's social foundation.
Lie #7: You can do MLM in your spare time. As a business, it offers the greatest flexibility
and personal freedom of time. A few hours a week can earn a significant supplemental income
and may grow to a very large income, making other work unnecessary.
Truth: Making money in MLM requires extraordinary time commitment as well as considerable personal skill and persistence. Beyond the sheer hard work and talent required, the business model inherently consumes more areas of one's life and greater segments of time than most occupations. In MLM, everyone is a prospect. Every waking moment is a potential time for marketing. There are no off-limit places, people, or times for selling. Consequently, there is no free space or free time once a person enrolls in MLM system. While claiming to offer independence, the system comes to dominate people's entire life and requires rigid conformity to the program. This is why so many people who become deeply involved end up needing and relying upon MLM desperately. They alienate or abandon other sustaining relationships.
Lie #8. MLM is a positive, supportive new business that
affirms the human spirit and personal freedom.
Truth: MLM is largely fear-driven. Solicitations inevitably include dire predictions about the impending collapse of other forms of distribution, the disintegration or insensitivity of corporate America, and the lack of opportunity in other occupations. Many occupations are routinely demeaned for not offering"unlimited income." Working for others is cast as enslavement for "losers." MLM is presented as the last best hope for many people. This approach, in addition to being deceptive, frequently discourages people who otherwise would pursue their own unique visions of success and happiness. A sound business opportunity does not have to base its worth on negative predictions and warnings.
Lie #9. MLM is the best option for owning your own
business and attaining real economic independence.
Truth: MLM is not true self-employment. "Owning" an MLM distributorship is an illusion. Some MLM companies forbid distributors to carry other companies' products. Most MLM contracts make termination of the distributorship easy and immediate for the company. Short of termination, downlines can be taken away arbitrarily. Participation requires rigid adherence to a "duplication" model, not independence and individuality. MLM distributors are not entrepreneurs but joiners in a complex hierarchical system over which they have little control.
Lie #10: MLM is not a pyramid scheme because products are sold.
Truth: The sale of products does not protect against anti-pyramid-scheme laws or unfair trade practices set forth in federal and state law. MLM is a legal form of business only under rigid conditions set forth by the FTC and state attorneys general. Many MLMs are violate these guidelines and operate only because they have not been prosecuted. Recent court rulings are using a 70% rule to determine an MLM's legality: At least 70% of all goods sold by the MLM company must be purchased by nondistributors. This standard would place most MLM companies outside the law. The largest MLM acknowledges that only 18% of its sales are made to nondistributors.
http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=772&Itemid=9
Did anyone say Tom is a leader of anything? In his own mind, maybe. Fear not folks, the circus will come back to town. In the meantime, watch your wallets.
ReplyDeleteJohn -
ReplyDeleteI've never once "scammed" anyone. Back up your silly remarks with facts jackass . . .
Easy to yack with a keyboard - show some substance johnyboy - real facts for once instead of your usual nauseating dribble.
Columnist? Ha!!!
Speaking of that - when was your last column for CNBC john?
Tom
p.s. - by the way - the mlm structure of our new mlm is just like ytb - rep separate from agent - kinda cool eh - or is that kool-aid?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm . . .
Bye!!
LOL too funny. I guess I turn to you for substance?
ReplyDeleteI have never written for CNBC so in answer to your question--never.
But the last column was in late January. It is a bi-weekly deal
ReplyDeletehttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22843224/
TravelLisa - Lie#8 is my fav!!!
ReplyDelete98% of YTBers lose money every month. That figure alone should tell you all about the success of YTB.
ReplyDeleteplease get in touch with me asap. I have gone through various forms of cultic abuse and am now in a network marketing company that I see some of these same things with. I need someone to talk to who will believe me and validate me and not think I'm nuts.
ReplyDelete~ yahssis@juno.com
Newer, faster, shinier - these are all things that every product manager wants their product to be. Our hearts are filled with product lust when we see other products, in our space or not, that have the latest & greatest bells and whistles. Oh if only our product could have that cool new technology also. Hang on a minute, it turns out that our products might actually be more successful if they don't have that cool new technology... spy phone app
ReplyDelete