The following was an RTA's initial post to a travel agent forum. No one provoked, prodded or otherwise instigated the poster; it just started this way without too much benefit of knowing anything more than what was told in a recruitment presentation.
Brick and Mortar Agencies will be like dinasours soon enough. The INTERNET will WIN, more and more are booking on the Internet each and every day. Why don't you pick on Expedia, Priceline, Travelocity or even the Airlines who will book travel packages, they are taking a hugh amount of business away from the "Brick and Mortar Agencies".....MLM's whether its travel or something else they work and we work and we make money. Get a life Brick & Mortar Agencies, stop your crying and complaining, this is Business and Travel is Big MONEY and you all know it to be true. It's a big Pie and I want a piece, if you have a book of clients good for you, so do I.
(PS. I have done plenty of Traveling over the last 23 years, to many places, so yes I am an expert, I always travel first Class and at the best locations. So I have plenty of knowledge and can share that personal knowledge with those who want the information. its not ROCKET SCIENCE.... Its a VACATION!!!!).
What I find very interesting is that the RTA feels that the traditional agents feel threatened by competition. That simply is not true. We feel threatened because of her last paragraph.
The poster has traveled. Therefore he or she is a travel professional.
The poster could not be further from the truth and this is exactly why we say that MLM is bad for the industry. I have said it before, but it bears repeating--if I sell a watch on eBay, I am not a jeweler.
This poster is so ill prepared to assist his or her "clients" when something goes wrong. I have also heard that the support offered by YTB to their own agents is lacking as well, so how can a client get any type of reliable professional service from a situation such as this?
This further demonstrates ignorance of the industry--which seems to be the norm. One director (in comments to the Crystal/Carnival post) seemed dumbfounded that commission on a cruise could exceed $1,000. He still doubts it I believe! I venture to say that most RTAs are unaware that Carnival pays more than $100 commission.
Have fun. I am out of the office today as it is our Primary Election and I serve as a judge.
ReplyDeleteAnn CTC posted this today. The article contradicts the myth that traditional agents are going to disappear soon:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.scam.com/showpost.php?p=485513&postcount=2824
John;
ReplyDeleteIf YTB isn’t a threat, then why three posts yesterday? I mean…if YTB is such a joke to you and every other Traditionalist it should be merely a minor irritation, not something to blog about every day, and post on message board forums day after day. Isn’t it true that you and others feel we are putting the rope around our own necks?
So why bother with such arrogant, cocky, and unprofessional comments? (Which I certainly agree they are.)
Lisa,
Interesting comment about knowing the ONLY two that do way more than Expedia. What level of your service, expertise, or credentials where required by you (or any other traditionalist for that matter) which assisted in one penny of the $40 BILLION spent with Expedia, Travelocity, Orbitz, or Priceline?
Ann,
I saw this scam.com post as well, and have to ask. Why are you excited by the fact that 2007 was the first year that more travel dollars were spent online than offline?
Doug
ReplyDeleteI believe its Amex and CWT that outrank those 4. AAA may be third..not sure. I work for CWT and I have used the sites, I have price compared for my clients to make sure they receive the best price. Orbitz which was started by the airlines, tended to have better rates (of course), so if they did, I booked it on the site for my client. So Yes, I have contributed. Priceline is a waste of time, considering you never know what your going to get. Travelocity which was owned by Sabre & AA, again owned by an airline I've also used. Do you need expertise to simply book & click..no. However, if you do not know where you want to go, have someone to give you more information on the resort/location you are going to, or help with changes along the way..the websites aren't much help. I've heard numerous horror stories from clients who've used them and won't do so again. I gained corporate clients from them for this reason. People want service, they want someone else to help them (or sometimes bitch to) when something goes wrong. Thats my job..and I love doing it. Back on 9/11 when flights were grounded, and millions of people stranded, I sat and worked in my office I think I finally went home about 3am. Even though I had friends in the Towers that day, worried sick..crying..I sat there and helped all the people who called in frantically trying to get home to their familys. When I went home and found out I'd lost 3 friends that day it devestated me, but I went back to work the next day. If this is what you do..then perfect..thats what a TA should do. But simply pointing to a website telling someone to book online and calling yourself a Travel professional simply because you've travelled..is BS. I started in this industry when it was only GDS, paper tickets, no internet, codes, handwriting, OAGs, rating an international itinerary for maximum pricing. So that taught me what I've learned today. I went to travel school, I started as an intern. I worked my way up, and it wasn't easy. The ones that say a monkey can do this job are simply asses. Yes a monkey may be able to point and click on a website..but it cannot do the real TA job. The behind the scenes everyday work I have to do.
I do not see YTB as competition. Just as I do not see the other 4 as competition. I have clients who want more then that. What bothers me most are the people who claim they are what they are not. The people coming into this industry with only a website claiming they are travel agents yet having no clue about simple travel questions if asked. That gives those of us who've worked hard a black eye.
You can work at a polling place but that doesn't make you a judge.
ReplyDeletePrecinct workers in Maryland are called "election judges".
ReplyDeleteDoug -
ReplyDeleteI do not feel threatened that YTB is going to take my business. I am busier so far this year than ever before and a lot of what I'm hearing is "there's so much on the internet - I need help figuring out what is out there...".
What "gets my goat" about YTB is the throwing out over 100 thousand ill-prepared people calling themselves "Agents". It makes us all look bad - even the YTB people (the few) who apparently know what they are doing! It debases our profession. The good news is that the public is beginning to see this and they are returning to B&M and home-based "real" Agents....
Doug, I didn't say I was excited about that post, just that I thought you all might find it interesting. (Well, and I thought I'd better step in and separate the combatants...)
ReplyDeleteBravo, TL. And, Doug, her post backs up what I have posted on scam prior to the article - that what you see about "more travel being booked online" does not mean that consumers and YTB websites are taking over the travel industry. The numbers do not break out WHO is booking online. I use the web regularly to campare rates, just like Lisa and any other TTA. And yes, we will book on Orbitz or Travelocity if that is what the client wants. Suppliers are moving their booking capabilities online, so that TTAs all have to book online, unless they want to pick up the phone (and believe me, if we can avoid that we do). Look at my latest post on scam - I never picked up the phone to do that, all was done online and with the GDS.
TravelPro said...
ReplyDelete"John;
If YTB isn’t a threat, then why three posts yesterday? I mean…if YTB is such a joke to you and every other Traditionalist it should be merely a minor irritation, not something to blog about every day, and post on message board forums day after day."
Obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), one of the anxiety disorders, is a potentially disabling condition that can persist throughout a person's life. The individual who suffers from OCD becomes trapped in a pattern of repetitive thoughts (YTB, YTB, YTB...) and behaviors (blog, blog, blog...) that are senseless and distressing but extremely difficult to overcome.
YTB is the most obvious of the travel MLM's. It seems YTB crows the most so why not take pot shots at them. Travel and MLM's are a BAD MIX.
ReplyDeleteI don't see how this is ever going to resolve anything. I think when this blog was started it was intended to educate people about the differences between mlms and a traditional agency. And it was so nice not to have to read the trash from the travel weekly boards. But now the trash is here. Yuk.
ReplyDeletePurchasers of online travel stores from YTB are called "Referring Travel Agents"
ReplyDeleteUt ohhh...stocks down to $.98. Heavy trading day for YTB too! And with nobody buying them, there is only one way to go, and that is DOWN DOWN DOWN!
ReplyDeleteMust be that great news coming out eh Tom? USAToday that was right?
Referring what? Referring someone to a website. That does not make you a travel agent in any sense of the title.
ReplyDeleteReferring to a pyramid opportunity!
ReplyDeleteYTBSCAM said...
ReplyDelete"Ut ohhh...stocks down to $.98."
Interesting how excited some folks get when a stock drops a couple of penny's. Oh well, what's that old saying? "Simple pleasures for simple minds."
SCAM said, "Must be that great news coming out eh Tom? USAToday that was right?"
By the way SCAM MAN, if what I heard today is true, your gonna crap your pants.
What's the big news RCCL is taking Joystar back? We were all predicting that one - but Joystar has made BIG changes. Not happening (at least not yet) for YTB.
ReplyDeletethat news is already out in the Trades....
"By the way SCAM MAN, if what I heard today is true, your gonna crap your pants."
ReplyDeleteI wonder if you and Tom are hearing the same thing I am?
Send me an e-mail, I'd like to confirm. I'll confirm with Tom.
Lisa and Ann;
I’m not condemning either of you for doing or saying what you said. I like and respect both of you.
Both of you have excellent reasons, and I accept and respect your answers.
Can you help me understand something that I just don’t get…and I hope I can word this right.
While I understand the pride both of you take in your profession, why do you allow YTB’ers or other Travel MLM’ers to “get your goat”? Why do you feel it gives “you a black eye”. If you are sure about the direction of your business and I do agree there are vacations or trips that you are far better qualified to handle, why is it even an issue for you?
I’m not saying it shouldn’t be uncomfortable or even a little irritating, but if what both of you are saying is true, (and I do believe it is) why the emotional charge?
I can think of several industries I’ve been involved with in the past where people who weren’t nearly as qualified as I was came in to disrupt business or even take business away. People I know had no clue in what they were doing. Was it frustrating? Absolutely! I also trusted that what goes around comes around, and I can sight several instances when that was the case. In the meantime, I promoted my value which increased my business, and I outlasted the competition time and time again.
What you focus on expands. Because the traditionalists focus so much of your time and energy on what’s wrong, you find even more things that irritate and frustrate you. This is the reason why John finds so much stuff. John spends hours and hours surfing to find anything he can. I could do the same and find things with a few of the 21,000 agencies in your business, but why bother? It’s a waste of my time and energy.
Most of you spend so much time focused on what’s wrong with YTB, there is very little room to focus on what’s right with Lisa and Ann.
For example, I never knew about Lisa’s story. To me, that adds incredible value and passion for what you do. It draws me in. While other comments like the one about the YTB’er who you think didn’t know AAA and Amex have Travel Agencies pushes me away. (Because the comment was taken out of context Lisa, it was an ad for someone outside the industry who may not have known how large the industry really is.)
I’m not telling you not to be passionate about what you do, or become numb to what’s going on like it doesn’t matter, because it does matter.
I just believe, and this is simply my belief, both of you are much better served with comments and focus like the ones above rather than criticizing what you don’t like. Trust me, I know it’s hard, and I’ve done it too.
I know you tell me that your not threatened or it doesn’t hurt business, but your actions are saying something totally different with all the time spent on the various boards and blogs.
Look, I like both of you and respect both of you. I want you both to be happy and successful. I want that for all of you. (John too, but don’t tell him that.) I just know from personal experience, even recent experience that so much focus and attention does hurt both professionally and personally. I’ve made a choice to drop a couple of forums I use to frequent, and I’ve also cut way back on my blog posting. I also don’t touch any of these forums from about 8am till about noon or 1:00pm. Those few hours away have done wonders for my business and my sanity.
Focus on what right with Lisa and Ann, not what’s wrong with the rest of the industry.
It is my sincere wish and hope that you understand and accept that this comes from Doug the person, not Doug the YTB’er.
Be well and thanks again.
Doug, I know you didn't ask me, but in only a few words. The actions and lack of knowledge about this industry by the MLM'ers, cardmills etc, takes away from the creditability of the "traditional travel agent".
ReplyDeleteDoug
ReplyDeleteThank you for taking the time to respond. The reason, for me personally, that I get so emotionally charged about this is because I've worked at this for so long, put so much blood, guts, time and work into being good at what I do. I HATE seeing people who have no knowledge whatsoever proclaiming a title they've not earned. Example. I was the office manager for my office way back when, my boss decided he also needed a "corporate" manager to help with client issues. Well, lets just say she didn't have a clue as to what needed to be done, who needed to be coddled etc. Always asking my help, then taking credit for what was not deserved. She had no managerial skills, nor travel skills. I honestly think she lied on her resume. But anyway..after 10 years of running the office..I resigned..I simply could not deal with the incompetance anymore..and my boss's were oblivious and/or blind. When I resigned and she showed her true colors (nobody to help her) only then did they see the light.
20 years of learning from the bottom up, 20 years of consistant change. Again, I'm not afraid of losing clients to the ever growing internet. I use the internet everyday..and thank god for it. Do I see my corporates or my bands leaving for the internet..no. Corporates want more..and my bands can't use the internet and remain anon. I just don't want 150,000 plus "people" running around calling themselves travel agents when they are clearly not.
Luanne said...
ReplyDelete"The actions and lack of knowledge about this industry by the MLM'ers, cardmills etc, takes away from the creditability of the "traditional travel agent"."
Luanne, I believe what takes away from the credibility of the TTA's is a typical headline that reads,
TRAVEL AGENT ARRESTED ON FRAUD CHARGES
It's quite obvious you and TravelLisa use YTB as your scapegoat. TL boorishly complains about people who don't have her knowledge about the travel industry. She "HATES" them because she jealously wants to guard her title as a travel agent. There apparently is very little concern about her rogue, law breaking counterpart agents. Very little is ever said about these ones let alone what is being done about it. That's been asked here on this blog, but it still begs for an answer. So far no takers. You want credibility? Stop these frauds from embarrassing you any further. Anyone of you up for the task?
Ole,
ReplyDeleteThere is alot of concern when TTA's or any TA breaks the law. However, they were arrested and will be due processed. If I knew of someone committing these crimes I would of course turn them in as well. Am I embarrassed by them of course. How exactly am I supposed to stop them? Can you stop what your "rogue" RTA's are saying/doing? Do you know if the MLM agents are working correctly and not in fact committing fraud?
Honestly, I give up arguing/caring...Peace!
TravelLisa said, "Am I embarrassed by them of course. How exactly am I supposed to stop them? Can you stop what your "rogue" RTA's are saying/doing? Do you know if the MLM agents are working correctly and not in fact committing fraud?"
ReplyDeleteTravelLisa, Bravo! This is exactly what the olescorekeeper wanted to hear. Now we are both on common ground.
"Peace" back at ya.
Doug~I myself am upset with YTB because of the following:
ReplyDelete1)the majority in YTB are more interested in recruiting their down line than actually selling travel.
2)I have been at trade shows and on fam trips when they have openly bragged about traveling for free.
3.)Open solicitation on a cruise I was on.
4.)I have had booth space at a Bridal Show and YTB RTA's were in the aisle actively soliciting people. They didn't bother to plunk down the money for booth space.
5.) Tomer, Coach and the others are sleazy. They may make money but they are still sleazy.
6.) Numerous complaints against them in State AG's offices and BBB.
8.) Majority of YTB don't want to clean up their act.
9) Majority of YTB are too in your face and obnoxious.
10.) Only a small % are in it to actually sell travel and learn.
Luanne;
ReplyDeleteNo worries, my question and discussion was open for ALL who have a view or opinion. I only directed the question at the other two “old hens” because they spoke first. ;-P
I find this “taking away of credibility” a bit overrated. Nobody can take away your credibility unless you allow it.
Can anyone take the years of blood, guts, time and work away from any of you? No, that’s yours and only yours.
Let me see if I can help reframe this for all of you…
Think about what someone new in YTB would do with all those years of blood, guts, time and work you have. Based on what you believe, they wouldn’t know the first thing about what to do would they? (I can just hear all of you cackling now just at the thought.)
Take a look at me.
Does it affect my credibility that I’m involved with YTB? For some, sure it does. I’ve learned over the years that if someone questions my credibility based on my involvement in YTB, it’s their problem, not mine. I didn’t make them feel that way. I don’t even know them so how can I take that on as my own? Is the reason they hate YTB or MLM in general my responsibility or doing? Of course not.
So why do you allow anyone to take away your credibility?
Just like I let some have this notion that I’m a scam artist, liar, or some clueless wannabe Travel Agent, you need to let some have this notion that they are “Real Travel Agents”. You have to look at the source of where it’s coming from.
Again, I’m not telling you to turn a blind eye. There are instances like Rose the other day that a battle like that needs to be addressed. But you need to pick your battles. I blasted Maynard this weekend over on the Travel Weekly forum for some of his comment of what was written in our Success from Home publication with blatant lies and misrepresentation of what was actually documented.
I know it’s hard to detach and come at this logically, especially with how much blood, guts, time and work you have dedicated to this profession. I know this title is important to you and you should be very proud of what you have earned.
Just step away for a minute, take a look at the source. All of you are smart enough to recognize a big ol’ pile of bull when you smell it. Why roll around in it yourself?
SydneyTA;
ReplyDeleteComments 1, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 don’t hold much weight with me because they are based on ignorance, rather than fact.
Coach being a sleaze is one of those laughable notions that I was just telling Lisa, Ann and Luanne about.
I’m sorry, but you own all this, not me.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteYou can work at a polling place but that doesn't make you a judge.
Uhm, with the annual training and re-certification it indeed does.
However, you may have this confused with YTB where you can just pay the bucks and call yourself a travel agent.
"Referring what? Referring someone to a website. That does not make you a travel agent in any sense of the title."
ReplyDeleteJudging what? Pointing someone to a voting machine. That does not make you a judge in any sense of the title.
"Uhm, with the annual training and re-certification it indeed does. However, you may have this confused with YTB where you can just pay the bucks and call yourself a travel agent."
Attend the training, get paid for attending, and you can call yourself a judge. Now there's a real motivator! Qualification? Speak, read and write English. 17 year old high schoolers are eligible.
btw - Prince George County pays better than Anne Arundel County
Doug, I agree to a certain extent. I personally am not worried about my own reputation or creditability. I will always be credible and valuable to the ones who already are working with me and I have a proven track record with them. It's a tough sell to try and convert or convince someone that working with a travel agent is the very best way to go if they haven't already been referred by someone who has nothing to gain from them working with me. I can't, nor do I try to control what everyone else does.
ReplyDeleteI'm mostly concerned about the creditability, in general, of the "professional travel agent". Our good name is what I am defending and protecting. Our value in the world of travel. I shouldn't have to constantly defend what I do for a living just because someone might have been reading an article about fraud within a job I personally love and do well. My concern is that too many people tend to lump "all travel agents" or any industry actually into "one bad egg" and you won't find the rogue agents here defending as those of us who have been a part of this industry for 15-20+ years.
I agree that there is dishonesty and integrity in all walks of life. Had you been walkin' a mile in our shoes over the last 10 years or so, you might have a better idea of our frustrations with the threats to our job security, which we have of course, all overcome, but it certainly threw many of us a curve and we had to grow with it. Maybe MLM is "the straw which broke the camel's back". I know that in the past, travel agents didn't tend to "come together" and support each other, but since commission cuts, I have seen a huge difference where as we have become "strength in numbers". We work together as a team, because it seems as though "we are on our own" when it comes to protecting ourselves. Even though we wouldn't even know each other if we passed each other on the street, I still think of each and every one of the other TTA's as someone I can refer to as a friend.
We've simply come together for damage control and to protect our livelihoods. Certainly can't blame us for that.
OK, I must get back to work. Have a good day ya'll.
Doug~With all due respect I have checked out the AG sites and BBB sites and have found numerous complaints against YTB.
ReplyDeleteAs for Coach being sleazy. He is sleazy. He was involved in other schemes and got out in the nick of time before the Feds crashed his party. Check public records.
As for the rest of Syndney's comments I have seen it first hand. Some of your fellow YTB's behavior is reprehensible and obnoxious and you and the rest of your cohorts look the other way.
BTW-How much money have you personally made on the backs of others? You may have others on this board fooled by your nice guy banter but I see right through your act.
Ole said "Very little is ever said about these ones let alone what is being done about it. That's been asked here on this blog, but it still begs for an answer."
ReplyDeleteLet's think about this here. Why is it up to us to "deal" with your so called rogue travel agents? Isn't that what the court system is for when fraud is involved? We are responsible for doing the right thing at our 9-5 jobs and to protect our good name if no one else is acknowledging there is a problem out there in regard to card mills.
If a person is unhappy with my service, I wouldn't expect that person to go to Travel Lisa or Ann!! How silly would that be!! How ridiculous you sound there Olescorekeeper!! Please!!! Now if we all worked at the same travel agency, I know that each of these gals would report the offender if they knew something wasn't smellin' right. But that's why we have our court system.
Luanne points out something important when it comes to fraud/whatever behavior in the TTA community as opposed to the YTB community. We all work for separate companies. I can't monitor another company's employees. If TL or Luanne is embezzling client monies, there is no way I'm going to know anything about it until I read that they are either in jail, or being extradited from Mexico (and at that point, the company should be ashamed of themselves for not having better accounting practices). YTB, on the other hand, should have a better handle on what is going on in their own company. Just like I hold Luanne's or TL's company responsible for their behavior (if they won't personally), I hold YTB responsible for their reps/RTAs behavior. Yes, it's good that the reps/RTAs will monitor each other, but ultimately it's the company's responsibility. Beyond that, it goes to our court system.
ReplyDeleteLuanne said, "Why is it up to us to "deal" with your so called rogue travel agents?"
ReplyDeleteI don't mean each of you separately. I'm talking about the collective body of traditional travel agents. So again, what are you and your support association's doing to curb these "rouge" agents? Oh please, don't give me the "that's why we have the court system" garbage. The TTA credibility is tarnished by these rogues long before they get through the legal system. The news media is there to make sure of that.
TravelLisa said, referring to YTB, "Can you stop what your "rogue" RTA's are saying/doing?" And I replied, "This is exactly what the olescorekeeper wanted to hear." It's not like flipping a switch for anyone to completely control your 80,000 plus agents and YTB's 140,000. I'm responding to make this point as previous blog topics have been extremely critical concerning the improper conduct of a few YTB agents.
Again I say and Ann has addressed the issue as well. Why in the world should it be our responsibility to police what other travel companies employees are doing? It's the responsibility of the employer, not the employees of a totally unrelated company!!! I think you're barkin' up the wrong tree with this question, beatin' a dead horse, a mute point, and trying to make something of something which isn't even relevant. Sure, there's liars, cheats and fraud in every industry, but that doesn't make those honest ones responsible for what the others are doing.
ReplyDeleteOK, so that skews my theory about credibility just a teenie bit, but I know how MLM's function. It's like a virus which spreads and spreads and spreads. But just because Sally Lou down the street ripped off a customer, doesn't mean that Luanne will.....however it does put a bad taste in people's mouths about "the title" in general and causes people to distrust or lump us all into the same unethical category. I feel that way about car dealers!! I don't trust ANY of them!! I think they're all a bunch of rip off artists!! And I also think that all attorneys charge too much!! Both of which are necessary evils in today's society.
luanne, you are taking this much too personally. Allow me to repeat myself.
ReplyDelete"So again, what are you and (better yet) YOUR support association's (organizations) doing to curb these "rouge" agents?"
I further said, "I don't mean each of you separately. I'm talking about the collective body of traditional travel agents."
None of you folks can give me a reasonable answer but instead, relegate the problem to the courts and moan, "it's not our responsibility".
At least I know of cases where YTB has moved to dismiss some agents for improprieties.
Stick a fork in me...I'm done.
olescorekeeper
I'm sorry, but I had to comment on the "election judge" comments. That's just what they are called. It's a title. I've been one twice a year every year since I turned 18. Sometimes we are called an elections officer or poll officer. We maintain order at the precints and make sure everyone knows what to do. I'm not sure who first posted it, but you cannot be that naive to think that because the word judge is in the title that we think we can reside over trials? It's a lot different from people thinking they are a travel agent and have a license, which people in YTB do not have.
ReplyDeleteAlso, for the BBB, isn't it true that if you pay them a fee they automatically give you accreditation? Doesn't that take away from the honesty of it just a little?
YTB is "a company", therefore it's their responsibility to manage their employees!!
ReplyDeleteWe do have organizations which are in charge of revoking (take the IATA number for example) from an agency when they "break the rules".
What part of this don't YOU understand?? The closest thing to what I believe you eluding to is a Union, which we do not have, but ASTA is an association which might address some of these matters for agencies overall. In order to be a part of ASTA, a travel agency must pay a membership fee to be an ASTA member. We do have "governing" bodies and those governing bodies are the ones who would be in charge of regulating issues such as the ones you're vaguely referencing.
Luanne said...
ReplyDelete"YTB is "a company", therefore it's their responsibility to manage their employees!!"
What employees? RTA's are not employees of YTB. Therefore, YTB does not "manage" RTA's. Please get your (lack of facts) straight Luanne.
"We do have organizations which are in charge of revoking (take the IATA number for example) from an agency when they "break the rules".
Yeah? And how often does that happen? I'm really ROFLMAO on that attempt to answer my question!
"What part of this don't YOU understand??"
Don't blame me Luanne, your just now trying to explain it for the first time.
"The closest thing to what I believe you eluding to is a Union, which we do not have,.."
Union? Again LOL! Union's don't police their members. Members pay dues for support and protection, NOT policing.
"..but ASTA is an association which might address some of these matters for agencies overall. In order to be a part of ASTA, a travel agency must pay a membership fee to be an ASTA member."
Gee whiz Luanne! Pay a fee to ASTA? Now you really got me ROTFLAMO! Bet they love those fee's coming in from the rogue TTA roosters and hens.
"We do have "governing" bodies and those governing bodies are the ones who would be in charge of regulating issues such as the ones you're vaguely referencing."
So far you've only named ASTA and unknown "governing bodies" as "addressing" and "regulating issues". You still didn't answer my question of WHAT they are doing to prevent their TTA's from defrauding the public on a daily basis. Comprendo?
olescorekeeper
"Also, for the BBB, isn't it true that if you pay them a fee they automatically give you accreditation?"
ReplyDeleteFalse. There are quite a few criteria that you need to meet initially, and then agree to on an ongoing basis.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete"Doug~With all due respect I have checked out the AG sites and BBB sites and have found numerous complaints against YTB."
OK Anon, give us the AG sites where you have found complaints about YTB and NOT on an individual.
Also, most of the complaints to the BBB are concerning idiots that wanted their money back after the 5 day right of recession period even though THEY AGREED TO IT IN WRITING! Most states give you 3 days. YTB offers a 5 day ROR.
"As for Coach being sleazy. He is sleazy. He was involved in other schemes and got out in the nick of time before the Feds crashed his party. Check public records."
What schemes? Back it up Anon. What public records? That's pretty sleazy of you to make unsubstantiated claims about some one you do not know anything about.
If you Google Llyod Tomer you wont find any sleaze. Here's what you will find.
"Coach was a preacher who loved people, not just white people. An influential big wig in the church he ministered called Coach to the carpet so to speak, and said that there is no way he would allow any preacher, especially J. Lloyd Tomer, to bus in anybody's child that was darker than his own skintone. So, when Coach kept bringing in God's rainbow coalition, the promise was kept. He was fired."
olescorekeeper
When I googled "Lloyd" Tomer, I got these...hmm strange:
ReplyDeleteProminent preacher and millionaire Lloyd Tomer and his son, Rex Franklin "Frank" Tomer, are being sued for more than $1 million for breach of contract and business fraud.
The lawsuit (No. 01-L-1141) naming Frank Tomer and Lloyd Tomer, as defendants was filed by investor Harold Lee Wathan Jr. in Madison County, IL Circuit Court of the Third Judicial Circuit.
The suit alleges the father-and-son team sold Wathan one-half interest in Lloyd's business and presented an artificially inflated value of the business. According to the lawsuit, the Tomers "used the false valuation to intentionally lie to and mislead" Wathan to induce him to buy into the deal.
"His family recruits lots of people for their MLM travel business, YourTravelBiz," Wathan said of Lloyd, in an interview. "They deserve to know the kind of person that is leading their travel company."
Specific details of the lawsuit state that:
· The Tomers provided an over inflated valuation of the business,
· The Tomers inflated the valuation to reflect commissions on one-time events. However, the commission on the events would only be paid once,
· from Nov. 2, 2001 to July 15, 2001, Wathan paid Frank $274,107, which was "passed on" to Lloyd.
· Lloyd and Frank never obtained the permission required to sell one-half interest in what was identified as "Contract Code Number 41284".
· Wathan is suing for actual damages of $274,107 - the amount he paid for his interest in the contract - punitive damages of $822,321 and costs of the suit.
For more information about the lawsuits against the Tomers please contact Wathan's attorney, David Ellison at 217-428-7728.
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We believe the earnings claims are exaggerated and we consider testimonials to be invalid as evidence of the truth of the company's advertising.
We believe this company may be engaged in a pyramid marketing plan because of their apparent emphasis on recruiting rather than selling travel. Those who buy into the company's team become legally responsible for the claims they make about their company, its product, and the business opportunities it offers. That is true even if the claims are presented in a company brochure or advertising flyer.
can we find out if all those other travel agencies who were accused of fraud were actually convicted? isnt it innocent until proven guilty? and exactly how are other agents supposed to police agents they don't know or do not work for the same company. companies should be required to police their own employees and know what they are doing.
ReplyDelete"Coach was a preacher who loved people, not just white people. An influential big wig in the church he ministered called Coach to the carpet so to speak, and said that there is no way he would allow any preacher, especially J. Lloyd Tomer, to bus in anybody's child that was darker than his own skintone. So, when Coach kept bringing in God's rainbow coalition, the promise was kept. He was fired."
ReplyDeleteAwwww that is so sweet! Sounds like a bunch of hooey to me.
So you gave us a 2001 case about Tomer. You gave us the plaintiff's allegations. What was the defense response? Were any of the allegations proved? What was the outcome?
ReplyDeleteApparently the lawsuit was dismissed.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.p86.net/court_dismisses_lawsuit_against_j_lloyd_badi.aspx
CASE DISMISSED = NO MERIT TO THE CLAIMS!
ReplyDeleteAgain, out of all the b&m that supposedly committed fraud as well, are we keeping tabs. Were those cases thrown out, were they falsely accused?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDelete"When I googled "Lloyd" Tomer, I got these...hmm strange:
Prominent preacher and millionaire Lloyd Tomer and his son, Rex Franklin "Frank" Tomer, are being sued for more than $1 million for breach of contract and business fraud."
Good try. You are one dishonest Anon. That case was dismissed without merit from the claims made. Of course you knew that? Right? I'm going to refrain from calling you a liar.
You said Lloyd Tomer "was involved in other schemes and got out in the nick of time before the Feds crashed his party. Check public records."
Oh...so you did lie! You must be one of the TTA's with a credibility issue. LOL!
olescorekeeper
Another YTB lover:
ReplyDeletehttp://worldwidescam.info/ytb/index.htm
To quote one of the many anonymous aliases above quoting Luanne.
ReplyDelete"We do have organizations which are in charge of revoking (take the IATA number for example) from an agency when they "break the rules".
Yeah? And how often does that happen? I'm really ROFLMAO on that attempt to answer my question!
Well, Mr. Idiot Anonymous it happened 4 times last year IATAN revoked numbers. YTB was one of them. So there.
Thank you Joyce. I am not interesting in rehashing the same garbage I read that the MLM'er's spew, here, there and everywhere. The majority of them have absolutely no clue what they're spewing. They spew what has been spewed upon them ;-)
ReplyDeleteOlescorekeeper, you are simply a waste of my time. I have no interest in hashing this out with you and it's only because I'm right. Naturally, you'll come back and say some foolish thing like, "ah, another old hen who can't back up what she says" and I say to you "WHATEVER!!" Get a job scorekeeper!!
Actually you said to google Tomer and those were the results.
ReplyDeleteThey are as legitimate as saying he was a non racist pastor that got fired.
***Note This page is an Archieve of Publicly released information either through our company or another Press Release organization. We do not "fact check", "Support", nor "Dispute" any of the information provided to us. We are a distribution point and Historical press release research and search service. This information only represents the fact that at one point in time the release was distributed to 1000's of publications both online and off. PRNewsNow will not take sides in any personal or commercial disputes you have with the writer of this press release. We will defend its right to exist blindly and without regards to its political, commercial or personal implications.***
ReplyDeleteGetting info from a source that's not fact checking their info makes it just a mattter of opinion .
Anonymous...OUTSTANDING point. And if I may quote from PR Newswire
ReplyDeleteMembers of PR Newswire are solely responsible for the facts and accuracy of all information submitted by them for transmission by PR Newswire. The only responsibility of PR Newswire shall be to use its reasonable efforts to correct any error of fact, timing or omission brought to its attention.
Which happens to be the method of release by YTB. And by your own declaration, I can therefore assume that anything released by YTB is indeed a matter of opinion.
I appreciate you clearing that up for me. Now if you can let the other RTAs know that it is only opinion it would help me out as they seem to not understand the concept.
Joyce said, "Well, Mr. Idiot Anonymous it happened 4 times last year IATAN revoked numbers. YTB was one of them. So there."
ReplyDeleteJoyce I know your new here, but you need to read more carefully.
The question concerned what is being done about the rouge TRADITIONAL TRAVEL AGENTS, not the network referring agents. BTW, YTB did not break any IATAN rules. They never said that. But, I suppose you will insist they did.
Luanne said, "Olescorekeeper, you are simply a waste of my time. I have no interest in hashing this out with you and it's only because I'm right. Naturally, you'll come back and say some foolish thing like, "ah, another old hen who can't back up what she says" and I say to you "WHATEVER!!" Get a job scorekeeper!!"
ReplyDeleteLuanne, no one is forcing you to reply to the olescorekeeper. I think your havin a good time. Sorry I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers.
Hey Luanne, question. Do you know what's meaner then a junkyard dog?
Give up? The answer is, an old wet travel hen.
Oh, and I do have a job keep'n you old hens on the straight and narrow. LOL!
Happy Clucking!
Point of clarification, IATAN did say that YTB was terminated for misuse of the endorsement specifically for allowing the use of the number by unauthorized people. I think the term they used was "renting" but I am not sure.
ReplyDeleteBut out of curiosity, do you think that IATAN just decided to pull a few numbers from a hat and it just sucked that your luck had run out?
John said, "But out of curiosity, do you think that IATAN just decided to pull a few numbers from a hat and it just sucked that your luck had run out?"
ReplyDeleteGuess you'll have to direct that question to IATAN. Anything from the olescorekeeper, or anyone else, would just be pure speculation.
olescorekeeper
"BTW, YTB did not break any IATAN rules. They never said that. But, I suppose you will insist they did."
ReplyDeleteIf you believe that honey I have some swamp land I'll sell you.
Oh Joyce, please don't call me "honey". I don't know you.
ReplyDeleteYou said you have some swamp land for sale? Who sold it to you? LOL!
olescorekeeper
I bought my swampland in Portal on a 9x9 matrix and am now selling it as timeshares
ReplyDelete