MLM and Travel It's No Good! YTB, TraverUs, GTI, World Ventures. All no good for the travel industry!
MLM and Travel It's No Good! YTB, TraverUs, GTI, World Ventures. All no good for the travel industry!
MLM and Travel It's No Good! YTB, TraverUs, GTI, World Ventures. All no good for the travel industry!
Friday, February 1, 2008
The Difference Between A Carnival Check And A Crystal Check
Yesterday I asked if anyone knew the difference between a Carnival commission check and a Crystal commission check.
At first glance, the new look of your blog looked nice. But now, too much fine print and clutter. I liked it better before. Just being honest. Do you still have a link to Doug's blog?
This sows how little you know--John is so right on this. Yes Carnival can produce commas but it is few and far between. Crystal, Regent, Silversea, Seabourn all ROUTINELY produce $1000+ commissions.
7 night cruise single cabin two passengers.
I had a Crystal WC a few years ago--2 cabins--4 people total commission was $104K. It was a good year!
If you got $104,000 commissin off of that cruise, it must have cost those passengers at least $50,000 each ticket. At that, it would mean the cruise-line gives you 50% of the total sale. And how many of these cruises do you sell a year... 1... maybe 2?
Proud...you are not wrong about the price being more than $50K...but that is about it.
I sold a WC once (and I will venture to say that it IS a rarity for most agents.
But look at the rates from $54K to $266K per person. Reasonably, the commission could be $180K on the cruise alone and that is not counting any pre or post or nights on shore while the ship is docked and the client wants to be land based (yes a lot do when able to).
My own agreement with Crystal is on par with what YTB gets with CCL (not exact but close) and I do not consider myself a Crystal producer. I imagine the agencies that routinely sell the Crystal product have a commission and over ride significantly higher.
Highly doubt it. Also, what was the length of time for this cruise?
how many people was this cruise booked for? How many cabins? Was it cabins, staterooms, suites... what?
How ignorant. I am sorry but honestly now. This PROVES to me that it is the rare day when you sell anything more than more than a basic level cabin on a entry level ship.
Eddie--I'd like to go on the record as saying I hate you! LOL
My market is the cheapest little rich town--sales like that are few and far between for me. People here have the burning desire for the $299 Bahamian weekend so they can take delivery of their $6 million dollar new boat, while the piers at their $10 million dollar waterfront house are rebuilt!
Highly doubt it. Also, what was the length of time for this cruise?"
Doubt away.
I do it with Disney Cruise Line quite a few times per year.
Family of 5 in a Category 4 Stateroom, 7-night cruise - spring break or middle of summer. Their Mexican Riviera itineraries are sweet too - and the Panama Canal repo's too - if you can get them!
Highly doubt it. Also, what was the length of time for this cruise?
how many people was this cruise booked for? How many cabins? Was it cabins, staterooms, suites... what?"
Oh poor, poor Proud - here we go again.....
Crystal for a sigle person often will produce a "comma" in the commission. Proud - we have four WCs booked this year already in our office with Crystal - and these bookings were all made after 12/1/07 - there will be more to come. We have WCs on other lines booked as well....
We've been telling you for how long that CCL produces the LOWEST commission check per cabin based on actual cruise cost and NCs - you can get more out of just about any other line, even with somewhat comparable prices.
"Carnival can produce comma commissions too."
Not too often - and only on a mega-group - we're talking about single bookings.
We use CB+ in our office and it keeps a running "average" of our bookings and commissions - now the airline ticket sales pull the averages down but if you take out airlines and just niclude cruise, tours, FITs, insurance you'll find that the average commission of every TA in this office (and we are very busy) has a comma in it. (And we don't even keep a CCL brochure on hand.)
We know that Proud has trouble with addition and subtraction. cut him some slack, okay?
Something tells me that not too many Crystal Cruises are sold via YTB.
John, Don't hate me. It's not my fault. It's those pesky pax that just want the best and don't shop around for it. Lucky me! That Med cruise is their very first and now that's all they will want.
Ok, so you stated that Crystal is a HIGH priced cruise-line... catred to the wealthy... where a stateroom for 2 people is 50K and above!
Notice, I mentioned "cabin" with Carnival. I did not say suite! Even a single suite won't produce a comma with Carnival... or with Disney.
With Disney, you are looking at $2374.00 per PAX. With 2 PAX, the commission would be around $400.00. It is quite possible that with 5 PAX, the commission could be close to $1000.00. 6 PAX would definately put you over the top.
Carnival would take more PAX to create a $1000.00 commission. with their highest @ $1449.00 per PAX.
Now, i found a Crystal cruise for $7,995 per PAX. ths one would definately produce a $1000.00 commission... for a 2 PAX cruise.
See wht i did here? I compared apples with apples. Instead of comparing a 2 PAX cruise with a 5 PAX cruise (like someone stated above with Disney), i compared 2 PAX with 2 PAX with 2 PAX.
And for people here who may not know what PAX is... like YTBScam... PAX = Passengers.
How many Crystal cruises do you sell? Chances are... its not too many.
Not sure if Proud is quoting anyone or not, but you would be surprised at how many Crystal cruises are sold by some agencies.
It only takes one or two a year and you have likely exceeded the earnings made in YTB for the year.
Crystal does not cater to the wealthy. Sure there are wealthy folks on board but there are also wealthy folks on board with Carnival.
7 night Mex Riv cruise on the Symphony "porthole" cabin with obstructed view will get me $650.00. Jump to a verandah cabin and the commission is just a few pennies over $1000. Want a suite, my commission is $2025.00.
I try to not sell anything but balconies or higher--it's all about the experience, so I can say that for each Crystal I sell (and admittedly they are not as plentiful as Princess or HAL, or RCCL) I do get a commish wiht a comma for the most part.
"How many Crystal cruises do you sell? Chances are... its not too many."
This is the problem with the YTB mindset - you are always thinking in terms of the customer who wants the rock bottom price.
You would be surprised how many people do book the more expensive cruise lines and the higher cost staterooms - multiple times per year.
Clients do pay retainers and fees to travel agents - and they do so happily each and every day.
Clients do book around the world cruises and tours. Families do routinely spend $5-$20k on a family vacation - and then come back to you the next year and do it again!
Companies book yachts for their employees for a company trip - sometimes each and every year.
If all you think about are the $300 Carnival cruiser, that is all you will ever get.
You can sit there and doubt our statements, meanwhile, we have expanded our business to those who don't mind paying top dollar for their trips.
"Now, i found a Crystal cruise for $7,995 per PAX. ths one would definately produce a $1000.00 commission... for a 2 PAX cruise."
What you don't understand is that at that cruise fare (assuming it does not include NCs) my commission is $1,279.20 per per passenger - that would be ...$2,558.40 for a couple. Why so high? Because my commission on that particular line is at 16%. Why? Because of my Consortium - much better than an MLM.
The Independents who go this route keep the entire thing - not 60% - we've been trying to explain that over and over and over to you.
If YTB is actually doing the volume it is, your CCL commission should be 16% - but you don't keep all that do you - but to get $1k per passenger (based on double occ) on a CCL cruise - you'd have to sell a commissionable cruisefare (after all NCs are out) of $6,250 per person. How many $12+k cruises do you (or anyone) sell on Carnival?
It's the people who have ot money to pay for Carnival who will be the first to start to curtail their vacations as we go into this recession - not the Crystal, Regent, Seabourn, SeaDream, Cruise West set.
And yes, we (eqach one of us at the Agency I'm at) sell quite a lot of the above mentioned lines each and every year.
The big mistake of travel MLMs is that they function on the idea that every person looking for a vacation is really very cheap and looking for a "deal". In fact, most people are looking for great "value". I had a call this morning - looking to spend around $12k on a cruise for family of four for Alaska - "but not anything like Carnival. I want something nice."
"It only takes one or two a year and you have likely exceeded the earnings made in YTB for the year."
?????? What a bogus statement this is! 1 or 2... LOL!!!
"Crystal does not cater to the wealthy. Sure there are wealthy folks on board but there are also wealthy folks on board with Carnival."
Notice he said that wealthy also travel on Carnival, and why shouldn't they? What he didn't say is that middle-class also travel on Crystal... which seems to be too far and between fro him to even state.
"7 night Mex Riv cruise on the Symphony "porthole" cabin with obstructed view will get me $650.00. Jump to a verandah cabin and the commission is just a few pennies over $1000. Want a suite, my commission is $2025.00."
You just confirmed my statement about how high priced the Crystal Cruise-Line is. You got a $2025.00 commission out of a 2 PAX cruise because the suite cost $14,000 per PAX.
"I try to not sell anything but balconies or higher--it's all about the experience, so I can say that for each Crystal I sell (and admittedly they are not as plentiful as Princess or HAL, or RCCL) I do get a commish wiht a comma for the most part."
I'm thinking about how many clients you lose because of this mindset. You go for the high dollar ring... being extremely selective of your clients. I, on the other hand am willing to catre to all clients. They are the boss. If my clients only want a cabin, I'm not going to try to upgrade them to a suite and charge them more if they don't want it. I do, however ask them what their vacation budget is. Then I go over all things available on a cruise, and ask them what would interest them or not.
I'm not saying that I haven't booked people into suites, because I have... because they requested it.
Yeah, there is a difference between a TTA and a YTB mindset. The TTA is looking for high dollar comission at any cost. The YTB is looking for client satisfaction... even of the commission is low.
" Families do routinely spend $5-$20k on a family vacation"
Not with this economy they don't! Most families spend up to $5K a year on vacations if that. Now a CPA, Dr., Lawyer, or any high profile businessman may spend $20K annually, but majority are middle-class people loking for an afordable vacation so they won't return home and find a notice on their door stating "FORCLOSURE".
You are spending so much time with arranging vacations for big corporations and the wealthy that you have totally lost sight of the middle-class. Do you even know what the economy is doing to some of them? When I talk to people about vacations, the first thing out of their mouth isn't about the destination. They ask, "How are your prices?" They want value... not cost! You don't necessarily have to have high cost to obtain high value. Unless a client comes to me and states that money is not an issue, I am not going to shove a big price tag down their throat.
Who would a client rather book through...
Someone who thinks about $$$$ COMMISSION $$$$
or
Someone who thinks about the client's budget and how they can get the best value for their dollar???
Proud---I found the cruise the poster was talking about and I concur with the commission and it is NOT on a high end cabin. I am not sure what pricing you are looking at, but on that ship, I cannot find a cabin approaching $14,000 per pax.
But let's say the client goes to you and you can opffer then the $14K per pax cabin. They come to me and I offer the top of the line Penthouse wtih Verandah for $9800 per person.
Assuming there are no NCFs in there, Proud makes $2,688 (60% of 16%). John makes $3142 (100% of 16%)
So because the passenger is so concerned about his budget, I guess you can say it was a good thing that he went with you and paid $4180 per person MORE for the same cabin?
And another point well proven is that if you were ever given the opportunity to sell that cruise, you have shown you cannot even get the correct pricing on it. SO who is working for the client?
Is it me that can find the cruise at an $8000 savings? Or Proud who says go to my site.
And as an added bonus on top of an $8K savings to the client, I am making $400 more on commission.
"I'm thinking about how many clients you lose because of this mindset."
This is called working smart.
Over the years, if you stick with this, you will find that those who nickel and dime you for every trip also take up the most hours of your valuable time and end up giving you the least earnings per hour spent.
Would you prefer working 80 hours a week at $5 per hour or 40 hours a week at $50 per hour?
Ohhhhhh! So Proud gets to work 80 hours at $5/hr, and so do all of those under him, and then they give a share to YTB HQ, and then share with their Power Leaders too??
I'd personally rather work 40 hours at $50/hr and keep it all to myself.
Maybe you should look a little harder John. I found this on Crystal's website.
Grand Americas – Voyage #8230C Region: Grand Americas Los Angeles to Miami on Crystal Symphony Dec 7 to Jan 25 (49 days) Fares from $14,475
If I was a client, and came to you for this cruise, and you said you couldn't find it... LOL!!!
And for anonymous...
Once again, My upline gets the 50% match paid to them from YTB! This has absolutely NO effect on what I earn in commissions, because I DON'T PAY MY UPLINE!!! YTB DOES!!!
For your information, i don't have to work 80 hrs a week for my pay! I don't even have to work 40! Hell, i coul just sit back and do nothing and get paid if i wanted to... but alas, I am dedicated to finding clients and helping them find and book their travel arrangements... even if it means calling the suppliers myself... which I have absolutely no problems doing. For the record, the suppliers like it when I call, because I have all the info ready on hand and am straight to the point when it comes to booking my client's vacations.
Proud - do yourself a favor and go to the Travel Institute's site and take the Luxury Travel course. You will learn a lot and you will realize that you know absolutely nothing as yet.
Learn:
- not to sell from your own wallet; - the guy driving the 15 year old car may very well be a millionaire; - people resent paying $5k for the best stateroom on Carnival - they do not repeat often on that - they move on to better lines; - wealthy people are everywhere; - luxury businesses do not go out of business in a recession, it's the folks selling the cheapest, cheesiest product who actually go out of business because their customers ar the first to stop speding; - people who have money almost always have money - I've seen no clue of a recession - daily we have folk coming in and dropping from $8k - $20k on their family vacations for this Spring and Summer......
Now most importantly - I'm not steering people to high-end product - they're coming in looking for it....
If you need 10 sales to make what I do in 1 sale, who is working smarter? Who has more time to service her clientele and keep them coming back? Multiply it by 10 - you need 100 sales to make the commission I bring in for 10.... You need to work harder to get 100 sales than I do to get 10....on and on....
Correction, YTB doesn't get 40% of my commission. I get 60% of theirs. Hell, they don't have to pay us commissions if they don't want to, but they do.
"- not to sell from your own wallet;"
I don't. if i did, it would be all luxury cruises... LOL!!!
"- the guy driving the 15 year old car may very well be a millionaire;"
It sounds something like the line, "Don't judge a book by it's cover" Well that's exactly what's going on here. Judging YTB ans assuming we don't know anything.
"- people resent paying $5k for the best stateroom on Carnival - they do not repeat often on that - they move on to better lines;"
It must be because the agent sweet talked them into it. I have never had any clients who were upset after they bought the high dollat suites. They bought it because they wanted it... not because I suggested it to them. Yeah, you TTAs are good at suggesting and manipulating the traveler's mind to get them to buy more. The more they buy... the bigger the commission.
"- wealthy people are everywhere;"
So are the not so wealthy, and they deserve a vacation too. I catre to EVERYONE... not just those who will give me the highest commission.
"- luxury businesses do not go out of business in a recession, it's the folks selling the cheapest, cheesiest product who actually go out of business because their customers ar the first to stop speding;"
Actually, this is a bogus statement. Although luxury businesses don't go out of business in a recesssion because of the wealthy people of the world, neither to the cheaper businesses. The not so wealthy people are driving up sales in these places because of the recession. They want more for their money.
"- people who have money almost always have money - I've seen no clue of a recession - daily we have folk coming in and dropping from $8k - $20k on their family vacations for this Spring and Summer......"
Well, the rich will always be rich. You don't see a recession??? Are you wearing blinders? Don't you watch the news? People are losing their homes! My neighbor was almost one of them last Christmas! You just keep catreing to the rich, and I will catre to the rich and middle class.
"Now most importantly - I'm not steering people to high-end product - they're coming in looking for it...."
Because you catre to the wealthy, and to them... money is no object.
"If you need 10 sales to make what I do in 1 sale, who is working smarter? Who has more time to service her clientele and keep them coming back? Multiply it by 10 - you need 100 sales to make the commission I bring in for 10.... You need to work harder to get 100 sales than I do to get 10....on and on...."
So, for every 1 wealthy person you are booking a cruise for, I am making 10 middle class people very happy with their vacations.
To you, commission is everything. To me, it's not. That's right... you don't get residual income. Your's is linear... no sale... no pay!
"- people who have money almost always have money - I've seen no clue of a recession - daily we have folk coming in and dropping from $8k - $20k on their family vacations for this Spring and Summer......"
Well, the rich will always be rich. You don't see a recession??? Are you wearing blinders? Don't you watch the news? People are losing their homes! My neighbor was almost one of them last Christmas! You just keep catreing to the rich, and I will catre to the rich and middle class.
"Now most importantly - I'm not steering people to high-end product - they're coming in looking for it...."
Because you catre to the wealthy, and to them... money is no object.
Fool. No, no recession in my business - I repeat - I've done two vacations today - first was $18k and the second was $27k. Sure, it's in the news, but the right clientele.... you are find.
As for "money is no object" - you know nothing! The wealthiest people expect the MOST for what they are spending, they do not throw their money away.
Take the Travel Institute course - seriously. You are very ignorant of that market segment.
and seriously - you're counting the value of what you're doing in terms of how many people you make happy? Go be a Social Worker if you want to be altruistic - I give as a Volunteer every week at a major museum and have dones so for 15 years now and I give my money where it helps - but business is a totally separate part of my life - and business is business. Don't pretend that you are selling to the lower market because it's socially conscientious.
At first glance, the new look of your blog looked nice. But now, too much fine print and clutter. I liked it better before. Just being honest. Do you still have a link to Doug's blog?
ReplyDeleteA comma for a single cabin cruise???
ReplyDeleteHighly doubt it. Also, what was the length of time for this cruise?
how many people was this cruise booked for? How many cabins? Was it cabins, staterooms, suites... what?
Carnival can produce comma commissions too.
This sows how little you know--John is so right on this. Yes Carnival can produce commas but it is few and far between. Crystal, Regent, Silversea, Seabourn all ROUTINELY produce $1000+ commissions.
ReplyDelete7 night cruise single cabin two passengers.
I had a Crystal WC a few years ago--2 cabins--4 people total commission was $104K. It was a good year!
If you got $104,000 commissin off of that cruise, it must have cost those passengers at least $50,000 each ticket. At that, it would mean the cruise-line gives you 50% of the total sale. And how many of these cruises do you sell a year... 1... maybe 2?
ReplyDeleteProud...you are not wrong about the price being more than $50K...but that is about it.
ReplyDeleteI sold a WC once (and I will venture to say that it IS a rarity for most agents.
But look at the rates from $54K to $266K per person. Reasonably, the commission could be $180K on the cruise alone and that is not counting any pre or post or nights on shore while the ship is docked and the client wants to be land based (yes a lot do when able to).
My own agreement with Crystal is on par with what YTB gets with CCL (not exact but close) and I do not consider myself a Crystal producer. I imagine the agencies that routinely sell the Crystal product have a commission and over ride significantly higher.
OMG I just saw this comment:
ReplyDeleteProud to be YTB said...
A comma for a single cabin cruise???
Highly doubt it. Also, what was the length of time for this cruise?
how many people was this cruise booked for? How many cabins? Was it cabins, staterooms, suites... what?
How ignorant. I am sorry but honestly now. This PROVES to me that it is the rare day when you sell anything more than more than a basic level cabin on a entry level ship.
Did he really just say that?
I just sold a 25,000 dollar Crystal Med. My commission check will have a comma in it. I find them the easiest to sell.
ReplyDeleteEddie--I'd like to go on the record as saying I hate you! LOL
ReplyDeleteMy market is the cheapest little rich town--sales like that are few and far between for me. People here have the burning desire for the $299 Bahamian weekend so they can take delivery of their $6 million dollar new boat, while the piers at their $10 million dollar waterfront house are rebuilt!
"A comma for a single cabin cruise???
ReplyDeleteHighly doubt it. Also, what was the length of time for this cruise?"
Doubt away.
I do it with Disney Cruise Line quite a few times per year.
Family of 5 in a Category 4 Stateroom, 7-night cruise - spring break or middle of summer. Their Mexican Riviera itineraries are sweet too - and the Panama Canal repo's too - if you can get them!
I sell quite a few suites on DCL too.
"A comma for a single cabin cruise???
ReplyDeleteHighly doubt it. Also, what was the length of time for this cruise?
how many people was this cruise booked for? How many cabins? Was it cabins, staterooms, suites... what?"
Oh poor, poor Proud - here we go again.....
Crystal for a sigle person often will produce a "comma" in the commission. Proud - we have four WCs booked this year already in our office with Crystal - and these bookings were all made after 12/1/07 - there will be more to come. We have WCs on other lines booked as well....
We've been telling you for how long that CCL produces the LOWEST commission check per cabin based on actual cruise cost and NCs - you can get more out of just about any other line, even with somewhat comparable prices.
"Carnival can produce comma commissions too."
Not too often - and only on a mega-group - we're talking about single bookings.
We use CB+ in our office and it keeps a running "average" of our bookings and commissions - now the airline ticket sales pull the averages down but if you take out airlines and just niclude cruise, tours, FITs, insurance you'll find that the average commission of every TA in this office (and we are very busy) has a comma in it. (And we don't even keep a CCL brochure on hand.)
We know that Proud has trouble with addition and subtraction. cut him some slack, okay?
ReplyDeleteSomething tells me that not too many Crystal Cruises are sold via YTB.
John, Don't hate me. It's not my fault. It's those pesky pax that just want the best and don't shop around for it. Lucky me! That Med cruise is their very first and now that's all they will want.
Ok, so you stated that Crystal is a HIGH priced cruise-line... catred to the wealthy... where a stateroom for 2 people is 50K and above!
ReplyDeleteNotice, I mentioned "cabin" with Carnival. I did not say suite! Even a single suite won't produce a comma with Carnival... or with Disney.
With Disney, you are looking at $2374.00 per PAX. With 2 PAX, the commission would be around $400.00. It is quite possible that with 5 PAX, the commission could be close to $1000.00. 6 PAX would definately put you over the top.
Carnival would take more PAX to create a $1000.00 commission. with their highest @ $1449.00 per PAX.
Now, i found a Crystal cruise for $7,995 per PAX. ths one would definately produce a $1000.00 commission... for a 2 PAX cruise.
See wht i did here? I compared apples with apples. Instead of comparing a 2 PAX cruise with a 5 PAX cruise (like someone stated above with Disney), i compared 2 PAX with 2 PAX with 2 PAX.
And for people here who may not know what PAX is... like YTBScam... PAX = Passengers.
How many Crystal cruises do you sell? Chances are... its not too many.
Not sure if Proud is quoting anyone or not, but you would be surprised at how many Crystal cruises are sold by some agencies.
ReplyDeleteIt only takes one or two a year and you have likely exceeded the earnings made in YTB for the year.
Crystal does not cater to the wealthy. Sure there are wealthy folks on board but there are also wealthy folks on board with Carnival.
7 night Mex Riv cruise on the Symphony "porthole" cabin with obstructed view will get me $650.00. Jump to a verandah cabin and the commission is just a few pennies over $1000. Want a suite, my commission is $2025.00.
I try to not sell anything but balconies or higher--it's all about the experience, so I can say that for each Crystal I sell (and admittedly they are not as plentiful as Princess or HAL, or RCCL) I do get a commish wiht a comma for the most part.
"How many Crystal cruises do you sell? Chances are... its not too many."
ReplyDeleteThis is the problem with the YTB mindset - you are always thinking in terms of the customer who wants the rock bottom price.
You would be surprised how many people do book the more expensive cruise lines and the higher cost staterooms - multiple times per year.
Clients do pay retainers and fees to travel agents - and they do so happily each and every day.
Clients do book around the world cruises and tours. Families do routinely spend $5-$20k on a family vacation - and then come back to you the next year and do it again!
Companies book yachts for their employees for a company trip - sometimes each and every year.
If all you think about are the $300 Carnival cruiser, that is all you will ever get.
You can sit there and doubt our statements, meanwhile, we have expanded our business to those who don't mind paying top dollar for their trips.
"Now, i found a Crystal cruise for $7,995 per PAX. ths one would definately produce a $1000.00 commission... for a 2 PAX cruise."
ReplyDeleteWhat you don't understand is that at that cruise fare (assuming it does not include NCs) my commission is $1,279.20 per per passenger - that would be ...$2,558.40 for a couple. Why so high? Because my commission on that particular line is at 16%. Why? Because of my Consortium - much better than an MLM.
The Independents who go this route keep the entire thing - not 60% - we've been trying to explain that over and over and over to you.
If YTB is actually doing the volume it is, your CCL commission should be 16% - but you don't keep all that do you - but to get $1k per passenger (based on double occ) on a CCL cruise - you'd have to sell a commissionable cruisefare (after all NCs are out) of $6,250 per person. How many $12+k cruises do you (or anyone) sell on Carnival?
It's the people who have ot money to pay for Carnival who will be the first to start to curtail their vacations as we go into this recession - not the Crystal, Regent, Seabourn, SeaDream, Cruise West set.
And yes, we (eqach one of us at the Agency I'm at) sell quite a lot of the above mentioned lines each and every year.
The big mistake of travel MLMs is that they function on the idea that every person looking for a vacation is really very cheap and looking for a "deal". In fact, most people are looking for great "value". I had a call this morning - looking to spend around $12k on a cruise for family of four for Alaska - "but not anything like Carnival. I want something nice."
"It only takes one or two a year and you have likely exceeded the earnings made in YTB for the year."
ReplyDelete?????? What a bogus statement this is! 1 or 2... LOL!!!
"Crystal does not cater to the wealthy. Sure there are wealthy folks on board but there are also wealthy folks on board with Carnival."
Notice he said that wealthy also travel on Carnival, and why shouldn't they? What he didn't say is that middle-class also travel on Crystal... which seems to be too far and between fro him to even state.
"7 night Mex Riv cruise on the Symphony "porthole" cabin with obstructed view will get me $650.00. Jump to a verandah cabin and the commission is just a few pennies over $1000. Want a suite, my commission is $2025.00."
You just confirmed my statement about how high priced the Crystal Cruise-Line is. You got a $2025.00 commission out of a 2 PAX cruise because the suite cost $14,000 per PAX.
"I try to not sell anything but balconies or higher--it's all about the experience, so I can say that for each Crystal I sell (and admittedly they are not as plentiful as Princess or HAL, or RCCL) I do get a commish wiht a comma for the most part."
I'm thinking about how many clients you lose because of this mindset. You go for the high dollar ring... being extremely selective of your clients. I, on the other hand am willing to catre to all clients. They are the boss. If my clients only want a cabin, I'm not going to try to upgrade them to a suite and charge them more if they don't want it. I do, however ask them what their vacation budget is. Then I go over all things available on a cruise, and ask them what would interest them or not.
I'm not saying that I haven't booked people into suites, because I have... because they requested it.
Yeah, there is a difference between a TTA and a YTB mindset. The TTA is looking for high dollar comission at any cost. The YTB is looking for client satisfaction... even of the commission is low.
" Families do routinely spend $5-$20k on a family vacation"
Not with this economy they don't! Most families spend up to $5K a year on vacations if that. Now a CPA, Dr., Lawyer, or any high profile businessman may spend $20K annually, but majority are middle-class people loking for an afordable vacation so they won't return home and find a notice on their door stating "FORCLOSURE".
You are spending so much time with arranging vacations for big corporations and the wealthy that you have totally lost sight of the middle-class. Do you even know what the economy is doing to some of them? When I talk to people about vacations, the first thing out of their mouth isn't about the destination. They ask, "How are your prices?" They want value... not cost! You don't necessarily have to have high cost to obtain high value. Unless a client comes to me and states that money is not an issue, I am not going to shove a big price tag down their throat.
Who would a client rather book through...
Someone who thinks about
$$$$ COMMISSION $$$$
or
Someone who thinks about the client's budget and how they can get the best value for their dollar???
Proud---I found the cruise the poster was talking about and I concur with the commission and it is NOT on a high end cabin. I am not sure what pricing you are looking at, but on that ship, I cannot find a cabin approaching $14,000 per pax.
ReplyDeleteBut let's say the client goes to you and you can opffer then the $14K per pax cabin. They come to me and I offer the top of the line Penthouse wtih Verandah for $9800 per person.
Assuming there are no NCFs in there, Proud makes $2,688 (60% of 16%). John makes $3142 (100% of 16%)
So because the passenger is so concerned about his budget, I guess you can say it was a good thing that he went with you and paid $4180 per person MORE for the same cabin?
And another point well proven is that if you were ever given the opportunity to sell that cruise, you have shown you cannot even get the correct pricing on it. SO who is working for the client?
Is it me that can find the cruise at an $8000 savings? Or Proud who says go to my site.
And as an added bonus on top of an $8K savings to the client, I am making $400 more on commission.
"I'm thinking about how many clients you lose because of this mindset."
ReplyDeleteThis is called working smart.
Over the years, if you stick with this, you will find that those who nickel and dime you for every trip also take up the most hours of your valuable time and end up giving you the least earnings per hour spent.
Would you prefer working 80 hours a week at $5 per hour or 40 hours a week at $50 per hour?
Your choice.
ReplyDeleteWould you prefer working 80 hours a week at $5 per hour or 40 hours a week at $50 per hour?
It's called LEVERAGE! LOL YTB is all about leverage....
Ohhhhhh! So Proud gets to work 80 hours at $5/hr, and so do all of those under him, and then they give a share to YTB HQ, and then share with their Power Leaders too??
ReplyDeleteI'd personally rather work 40 hours at $50/hr and keep it all to myself.
;-)
Maybe you should look a little harder John. I found this on Crystal's website.
ReplyDeleteGrand Americas – Voyage #8230C
Region: Grand Americas
Los Angeles to Miami on Crystal Symphony
Dec 7 to Jan 25 (49 days)
Fares from $14,475
If I was a client, and came to you for this cruise, and you said you couldn't find it... LOL!!!
And for anonymous...
Once again, My upline gets the 50% match paid to them from YTB! This has absolutely NO effect on what I earn in commissions, because I DON'T PAY MY UPLINE!!! YTB DOES!!!
For your information, i don't have to work 80 hrs a week for my pay! I don't even have to work 40! Hell, i coul just sit back and do nothing and get paid if i wanted to... but alas, I am dedicated to finding clients and helping them find and book their travel arrangements... even if it means calling the suppliers myself... which I have absolutely no problems doing. For the record, the suppliers like it when I call, because I have all the info ready on hand and am straight to the point when it comes to booking my client's vacations.
You can't even find the right cruise! 7 night MR cruise on the Symphony. NOT 49 night, not LAX to MIA.
ReplyDeleteIf you are not able to intelligibly able to discuss a topic, please refrain.
"This has absolutely NO effect on what I earn in commissions, because I DON'T PAY MY UPLINE!!! YTB DOES!!!"
ReplyDeleteI get 100% commission paid directly to me.
You get 60%, YTB keeps 40% - and YTB distributes that 40% to others...so in effect, you are paying your upline.
Proud - do yourself a favor and go to the Travel Institute's site and take the Luxury Travel course. You will learn a lot and you will realize that you know absolutely nothing as yet.
ReplyDeleteLearn:
- not to sell from your own wallet;
- the guy driving the 15 year old car may very well be a millionaire;
- people resent paying $5k for the best stateroom on Carnival - they do not repeat often on that - they move on to better lines;
- wealthy people are everywhere;
- luxury businesses do not go out of business in a recession, it's the folks selling the cheapest, cheesiest product who actually go out of business because their customers ar the first to stop speding;
- people who have money almost always have money - I've seen no clue of a recession - daily we have folk coming in and dropping from $8k - $20k on their family vacations for this Spring and Summer......
Now most importantly - I'm not steering people to high-end product - they're coming in looking for it....
If you need 10 sales to make what I do in 1 sale, who is working smarter? Who has more time to service her clientele and keep them coming back? Multiply it by 10 - you need 100 sales to make the commission I bring in for 10.... You need to work harder to get 100 sales than I do to get 10....on and on....
Correction, YTB doesn't get 40% of my commission. I get 60% of theirs. Hell, they don't have to pay us commissions if they don't want to, but they do.
ReplyDelete"- not to sell from your own wallet;"
I don't. if i did, it would be all luxury cruises... LOL!!!
"- the guy driving the 15 year old car may very well be a millionaire;"
It sounds something like the line, "Don't judge a book by it's cover" Well that's exactly what's going on here. Judging YTB ans assuming we don't know anything.
"- people resent paying $5k for the best stateroom on Carnival - they do not repeat often on that - they move on to better lines;"
It must be because the agent sweet talked them into it. I have never had any clients who were upset after they bought the high dollat suites. They bought it because they wanted it... not because I suggested it to them. Yeah, you TTAs are good at suggesting and manipulating the traveler's mind to get them to buy more. The more they buy... the bigger the commission.
"- wealthy people are everywhere;"
So are the not so wealthy, and they deserve a vacation too. I catre to EVERYONE... not just those who will give me the highest commission.
"- luxury businesses do not go out of business in a recession, it's the folks selling the cheapest, cheesiest product who actually go out of business because their customers ar the first to stop speding;"
Actually, this is a bogus statement. Although luxury businesses don't go out of business in a recesssion because of the wealthy people of the world, neither to the cheaper businesses. The not so wealthy people are driving up sales in these places because of the recession. They want more for their money.
"- people who have money almost always have money - I've seen no clue of a recession - daily we have folk coming in and dropping from $8k - $20k on their family vacations for this Spring and Summer......"
Well, the rich will always be rich. You don't see a recession??? Are you wearing blinders? Don't you watch the news? People are losing their homes! My neighbor was almost one of them last Christmas! You just keep catreing to the rich, and I will catre to the rich and middle class.
"Now most importantly - I'm not steering people to high-end product - they're coming in looking for it...."
Because you catre to the wealthy, and to them... money is no object.
"If you need 10 sales to make what I do in 1 sale, who is working smarter? Who has more time to service her clientele and keep them coming back? Multiply it by 10 - you need 100 sales to make the commission I bring in for 10.... You need to work harder to get 100 sales than I do to get 10....on and on...."
So, for every 1 wealthy person you are booking a cruise for, I am making 10 middle class people very happy with their vacations.
To you, commission is everything. To me, it's not. That's right... you don't get residual income. Your's is linear... no sale... no pay!
"so, for every 1 wealthy person you are booking a cruise for, I am making 10 middle class people very happy with their vacations."
ReplyDeleteSo you are still doing 10 times the amount of work for less money. Hey, thats your choice.
"you don't get residual income. Your's is linear... no sale... no pay!"
If your downline doesn't sell or recruit, you won't get any residual income either. You are dependent on them.
In other words, if all of you just sit around and not sell, no one will get paid - sounds linear to me. "no sale...no pay!"
I'll take my 100% over your 60% and residuals anyday.
No one has yet to prove to me that your way is smarter.
"- people who have money almost always have money - I've seen no clue of a recession - daily we have folk coming in and dropping from $8k - $20k on their family vacations for this Spring and Summer......"
ReplyDeleteWell, the rich will always be rich. You don't see a recession??? Are you wearing blinders? Don't you watch the news? People are losing their homes! My neighbor was almost one of them last Christmas! You just keep catreing to the rich, and I will catre to the rich and middle class.
"Now most importantly - I'm not steering people to high-end product - they're coming in looking for it...."
Because you catre to the wealthy, and to them... money is no object.
Fool. No, no recession in my business - I repeat - I've done two vacations today - first was $18k and the second was $27k. Sure, it's in the news, but the right clientele.... you are find.
As for "money is no object" - you know nothing! The wealthiest people expect the MOST for what they are spending, they do not throw their money away.
Take the Travel Institute course - seriously. You are very ignorant of that market segment.
and seriously - you're counting the value of what you're doing in terms of how many people you make happy? Go be a Social Worker if you want to be altruistic - I give as a Volunteer every week at a major museum and have dones so for 15 years now and I give my money where it helps - but business is a totally separate part of my life - and business is business. Don't pretend that you are selling to the lower market because it's socially conscientious.
"Correction, YTB doesn't get 40% of my commission. I get 60% of theirs."
ReplyDeleteWhat a backwards way of looking at this - especially since you are doing all of the work.