There are many differing opinions, all of them good. Personally, I call myself a consultant. Webster’s defines a consultant as “one who gives professional advice or services”. That’s what I do. I offer my professional advice to a client on what would be the best options for them, and then I service them by making the booking, and handle all the business transactions that arise from that booking. But what really caught my eye in this “sub-topic” was a quote from someone involved in a travel MLM, WorldVentures. He stated:
”Agents” shouldn’t be used at all in MLM UNLESS they have met the criteria to actually be agents. This is why WV took “agent” out of the terminology of its members titles until they actually were able to meet the criteria. We went from “Referring Travel Agent” to “Leisure Travel Consultant” which was a great move IMO. I do sell travel, but I just point them to my site. I make no bones about the fact that I don’t want to deal with getting certified and all that. For me, having a team is what I prefer. Kudos to all of you that choose differently. That is what makes America great, we can choose what avenue to take.”
This person admits right here, that while he is involved in a travel MLM, he has no desire to get any type of travel certification or “all that”. He’s all about “having a team”…..in other words, recruiting.
So, the conversation goes on a bit, bantering back and forth between “agent” and “consultant” when this person chimes in again with this
“It is splitting hairs at this point. Dies it really matter seriously? Traverus has taken the step to do the right thing by changing the agents to consultants. (RTA to RTC) The thing is that the traditional agents will never be 100% happy with any change short of the mlm companies being shut down. Getting hung up on what to call yourself is kind of silly don’t you think?”
This, is exactly the point that we are fighting about; one point of this blog. This “right of entitlement” to all of the privileges and perks afforded to travel agents. The perks given to people who work in the industry actually selling travel, people who work at it. Here is a person who, admittedly, says he sells travel, but doesn’t work at it, he only gives people a web address and tells them to do it themselves. He doesn’t consult, he doesn’t act as an agent, and says he has no interest in doing so. When confronted with this, he states that he is “in the business to build a team, not in the business to try and get travel “perks””, yet when pressed a bit further, admits to getting and taking them.
This person states that the TTA community will never be happy until all travel MLM companies are 100% shut down. I say not true. I say that traditionalist and MLM’s can co-exist, but within the MLM’s there has to be a complete and total separation of the travel side and the recruiting side. If you want to be a marketer for the MLM company, fine and dandy. But don’t expect to receive any type of travel perks. Don’t tell a supplier that you are “affiliated” with a travel company and expect or accept any type of discount, unless you are actively selling travel. If the travel MLM’s of the world want to be truly accepted by the traditional community, then this is the change that must come about. Yes, there are those out there in MLM’s that are all about selling travel, and want to be treated with respect, but as long as they are in the MLM’s that have not made the changes sought, then they will remain tainted. Unfortunately, it’s called guilt by association.
A lot of this also falls onto the vendors. Until the vendors stop offering perks to any and everyone affiliated with these companies, the problem will remain. TTA’s need to make a stand. TA associations need to make a stand. Those in travel MLM’s that are serious about selling travel need to take a stand. Because the scenario I have described above is what the fight is all about.
John, we TTA have taken a stand. Almost 3,000 of us signed a petition to the suppliers. I and many of my peers have talked to our BDM's about the problem. While they are sympathetic and often agree with us the problem is the MLM's do bring money in.
ReplyDeleteI have talked to res center reps off the record and they tell me these MLM's are a nothing but a pain to deal with.
Hats off to RCCL, Perillo, Quantas Vacations and the other suppliers who refuse to do business with them. My only hope is that the other vendors will realize that while the MLM's do bring in some business is it worth the aggravation, hand holding and the cost of correcting their mistakes and constantly solving their clients problems?
Just a point of clarification, this post was a Guest Post by Ainsworth.
ReplyDeleteAs one of the participants of that WAHM discussion, I did also state that it was a not that TTA's want all MLM's out of the industry. We just do not want uneducated masses pretending to be agents when all they do is push people to a website. That does not make you an agent or consultant in any form.
ReplyDeleteLisa, I will agree with you on that.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you on that Lisa. This is fordmommy from WAHM. I want to apologize also for my agent/consultant statement. That was ignorant on my part. Truth is I think we can learn a lot from TTAs and have had that stance for quite some time, even before I knew that there was sort of rift between TTAs and travel MLMs.
ReplyDeletePersonally I think very little of any value to a professional travel agent on wahm. It's a hobby site. Sorry Lakeisha , but when the hot topic of the day is whether it's okay for your crying baby to be in on sales calls the issue is NOT professionalism. Add to that the censorship issue, the constant recruiting and wahmo bahmo you've got nothing of interest to anyone who makes a living selling travel.
ReplyDeleteWahm is one big joke.
Not only is the wahm board for hobbyists but it is a haven and recruitment site for every MLM in the world....
ReplyDeleteWell, as a WAHM poster, I'll try not to take those comments to heart. Considering I've been in the industry for as long as I have, and that I honestly go there to defend our profession. I do agree that its a haven for MLMers and those who have bought into the nonsense and now need help figuring it out. The RahRah sessions are hysterical that so many buy into it.
ReplyDelete"I do agree that its a haven for MLMers and those who have bought into the nonsense and now need help figuring it out. The RahRah sessions are hysterical that so many buy into it."
ReplyDeleteWell Lisa, I was with you until you took the arrogant attitude that you are somehow above the people that get involved with MLM. People have a tendency to put down things they have little to know knowledge about. It makes them feel better about where they are with their beliefs and position in life. It might surprise you that there are some extremely intelligent people out there in MLM. Not because they are "salesman" or "scammers", but because they understand it and it makes sense. I don't like opera, mostly because I can admit I don't understand it. But is there a need for me to put it down so I can feel better about it? No.
FireMedic.
ReplyDeleteI am not putting down all MLM's. Its the travel ones that concern me. When someone buys into a program and then starts calling themself a travel agent, goes onto a board such as this to ask simple questions, its disheartning. When you proclaim to be an agent and do not know simple industry info thats the point that sticks. I do not think all MLMers are scammers, some yes..all no.
Many friends and family sell avon, mary kay and the like...I take no issue with it. But they do not call themselves Professional Makeup Artists either.
The Rah Rah sessions are just that, pumping each other up to sell sell sell the product when many of them do not even know the product at all.
FireMedic - you know MLM, That's good. I feel you know little about the travel industry and the people it needs to sell and work it. MLM and travel do not mix in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteLisa, I have seen your efforts on Wahm and they are wasted. You can try but you won't get anywhere because most there are MLM rookie recruiters. Travel is just a means to get people to sign up and enrich the upline. If they were serious about travel there would be no need to recruit people just looking for the discounts, the upgrades and all the other perks they don't deserve.
I have been to WHAM a few times and I have to say that it is even a joke for MLM.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, this is the place for the amateurs of MLM to hopefully learn how to make it work. I do not recall hearing about Ricketts, Jensen, Head, or Piccolo posting over there.
Wonder why? Because they are successful and know what it takes to work MLM. The people over there are merely (as Lisa pointed out) cheerleading for each other. Oh did you hear the news..yes the nes is so exciting..our owners know what they are doing...I hope to make my first million this year..oh you are so smart...oh this potion will make us all rich...did you hear about the conference call...
Come on? No one is kidding anyone and the best chance you have on there is to possibly talk a good enough talk to recruit some other MLM flunky that is already failing out of another MLM. So it is merely a failure shift from one MLM to the other!
Which brings me back to the point that you don;t see Ricketts et al over there. They KNOW that the majority of people in MLM will fail and that is the beauty of it for them. It will take a few years of paying into the program making money for them before they realize that it might not be working.
And then, back to a different room on WHAM to be suckered in once again!
I don't recruit on WAHM. Sorry.
ReplyDeleteI don't expect any of you to go research my posts but I don't go on the so-called 'rah-rah' sprees.
I don't go there for that, only to support those that need it and to learn and get/share resources on travel. A couple times, yes I have asked for advice from TTAs and so far has been helpful.
I don't think it's fair to assume that b/c WAHMs post there that it's for hobby purposes. I take my travel business seriously and can only speak for myself.
Maybe if they made travel folders password protected it would be a support group. Unfortunately it is a public site. Oh well.
Eddie,
ReplyDeleteYou are lumping everyone together b/c of one topic. Should it have been a topic of discussion? Depends who you ask I suppose.
Have you thought that maybe there is someone who is a true beginner and wants to do things right?? Why the instant judging before knowing the whole story?
The person who started the topic from what I understand is in college taking travel courses. The thing the TTAs so heavily preach to those in travel MLMs.
One of the responses was by a travel agent not in an MLM. But who cares? B/c it's on a public site and it's on WAHM.com to me is irrelevant. The issues that were written and are being discussed and I agreed with Lisa, is.
Eddie regardless I am not fighting against TTAs, just learning from legit resources. and WAHM provides a support system for ME. Not a recruitment center.
I guess I'm somewhat to blame here. The original poster indicated that online bookings had increased. I pointed out that though they increased, satisfaction levels had decreased.
ReplyDeleteThat discussion then morphed into the "title discussion".
My only thoughts here are the professionalism of the site. I think any site can be professional when you consider what YOU do with the site. That is a site strictly for work at home mothers (WAHM). There are many WAHMs who are the sole decision makers on their family's travels. I have been able to book a vacation from there and partner with someone in another field to develop a Floating Sales Expo. So, I'm not exactly sure its not a "professional" site.
There are also WAHMs who are looking to shift from one MLM to another, as John says. I don't get involved in that.
But when you consider the economy these days, I market my travel business wherever I can. I'm sorry you take WAHMs as a joke Eddie. I'm sure they feel they are an important segment in our society.
I have also participated in past rah-rah sessions. I have also come to learn that they benefit NO ONE, not even the posters. I'm really in a difficult spot right now....already rejected by TTAs and now even beginning to be rejected by MLMs. ((unhappy))
But life goes on............
Additionally, someone (maybe John) says you don't see Ricketts, Jensen, Head, Piccolo and others posting on that forum. I will say I haven't seen them but supposedly the biggest recruiters in another travel/MLM post there.
ReplyDeleteI didn't say ALL the Wahm posters were a joke. Just the ones that post as 'travel agents' on the travel sections. Not you Lisa, the MLM ladies and gents. Lord knows I couldn't stomach reading any of the other MLM sections.
ReplyDeleteLakeisha - I'm glad you get your support there - I liked your story about the big recruitment meeting in Barbados - and signing up all the Barbadians so they could sell travel to all the Barbadians that didn't join Traverus. All your pals were gaga happy for you!
Denyse - decide what you are...YTB or not. That might help clear up your identity problem.
Speaking of YTB - it's hilarious that every mention is deleted! Make me want to sign up and post about YTB in every topic just to see how fast Whamie puts the whammy to it. That is a joke.
eddie said...
ReplyDeleteDenyse - decide what you are...YTB or not. That might help clear up your identity problem.
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Ok, maybe you missed it Eddie. I am no longer promoting YTB for ANYTHING. I definitely won't promote Aisle 19 products.
Agree Eddie. I find it amusing that anything related to YTB is now deleted immediately. I try not to read any of the other MLM pages now because doing so makes me cringe, there is just way to much recruiting going on in folders that are supposed to be about travel.
ReplyDeleteAs for YTB and Aisle 19...even more of a joke. They want to be taken seriously as a travel agency, but yet promote countless other vendors not associated with travel. They will never be taken seriously that way.
Sorry I misunderstood Denyse. I thought you were still on the books as a RTA/REP. If that's the case whether you 'promote' or not you are still YTB. No wonder people have identity issues with you. Tell me I'm wrong.
ReplyDeleteOh look Denyse won't admit that she is done with YTB. She is "NO LONGER PROMOTING YTB" which means she is still in YTB. Just like many of us have been stating. She's not serious about travel, she's serious about her downline.
ReplyDeleteeddie said...
ReplyDeleteSorry I misunderstood Denyse. I thought you were still on the books as a RTA/REP. If that's the case whether you 'promote' or not you are still YTB. No wonder people have identity issues with you. Tell me I'm wrong.
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As a matter of fact, you will still see a REP site, but it is no longer an enhanced site. You will still a travel site because it was cancelled within the last few days.....it will remain active for at least 30 days. I can't tell you anymore than that. My bookings are ALL going through my new host and a TTA.
YTBSCAM said...
ReplyDeleteOh look Denyse won't admit that she is done with YTB. She is "NO LONGER PROMOTING YTB" which means she is still in YTB. Just like many of us have been stating. She's not serious about travel, she's serious about her downline.
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OK, I see you need it broken down more for you.
I AM NOT WITH YTB. I DON'T HAVE A DOWNLINE. I AM SERIOUS ABOUT TRAVEL. Say what you will or may, I know the truth.
Sure you know the truth, you have been proven wrong many times Denyse. How many more lies will you post? Your not a Gods lady...your a liar!
ReplyDeleteYTBSCAM said...
ReplyDeleteSure you know the truth, you have been proven wrong many times Denyse. How many more lies will you post? Your not a Gods lady...your a liar!
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Thank you for your confidence. And thank God, He knows the truth also.
And you will be judged. God help you Denyse. You have lied, you have been judged. How many more times will you make up a story about why your with YTB?
ReplyDeleteThat's good enough for me Denyse. I know about the REP sites as I have one too. I hope at least when the RTA site goes away people will cut you more slack.
ReplyDeleteI do some consulting for Expedia Corporate so I know that it's sometimes hard to wear 2 hats. Luckily none of my pals thinks Expedia is the scum of the earth so I don't take as much heat.
eddie said...
ReplyDeleteThat's good enough for me Denyse. I know about the REP sites as I have one too. I hope at least when the RTA site goes away people will cut you more slack.
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Thank you Eddie. I'm not sure I'll ever get cut slack from some people. But it's ok...I'm not complaining. I've put myself in this predicament so I can handle it. You really don't expect to be treated like scum forever when you make a mistake, however. EVERYBODY deserves a second chance.
WOW I would think you guys could read! YTB now offers exclusives Trips to there AFFILIATES & RTA'S. SO WHAT'S THE DEAL NOW? NO ONE IS ASKING FOR FREE CRAP! (FAM'S ETC. )
ReplyDeleteAND AS FOR I-19 if someone SHOPPED AT WALMART ON LINE AND GOT's PAID that sounds smart to me! When you shop at WALMART AND GET A receipt only. That's dumm!
Here we go again!
ReplyDeleteROFL!!
ReplyDeleteeddie said...
ReplyDelete"Lakeisha - I'm glad you get your support there - I liked your story about the big recruitment meeting in Barbados - and signing up all the Barbadians so they could sell travel to all the Barbadians that didn't join Traverus. All your pals were gaga happy for you!"
Eddie I'm not here to argue with you. I see what people are saying now, constantly having to defend b/c you don't know the whole story. I am specializing in the Caribbean, been there (to the Caribbean) many times. ON MY OWN DIME. Again I don't recruit on WAHM. I actually haven't recruited in months! He found me and the rest is history. And further, they don't just sell travel to other Bajans...you are sadly mistaken. They are booking travel all over the place. I know b/c I am working with a lot of them and it's quite overwhelming. But thanks for not mentioning that they are learning the industry. Barbados is a nice spot. TOURISM is #1 over there.
I was sharing my experience over the last year, in a positive light with my fellow supporters, and something told me that somehow my entry would be found and torn apart by someone. Never mind what I do in the travel industry, and what I'm working at doing. You keep forgetting. Not all MLMers are against TTAs. You can dislike me all you want...but I take my travel business seriously and know I can learn something from the TTA communicty whether you like it or not.
I won't post here again b/c then I'll become bitter and start arguing back and forth, and that's not me.
Denyse-Are you running all your Charity stuff through your Host now or are you still using YTB?
ReplyDeleteYou guys keep saying that MLMers and TTAs can co-exist if we recruit separate from the travel business. First can someone explain exactly what that means?
ReplyDeleteIf it means not recruiting your clients, then you didn't read my post (which this post is specifically about) and my stance on that. B/c I don't do that. But anyway, I know it will fall on deaf ears. So I'm going to leave.
Now I'm done. =) Have a great evening regardless.
ReplyDeleteA Real Travel Pro said...
ReplyDeleteDenyse-Are you running all your Charity stuff through your Host now or are you still using YTB?
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I'm changing them all over now to my new host.
Lakeisha M. Ford said...
ReplyDeleteAgain I don't recruit on WAHM. I actually haven't recruited in months!
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Keisha, I've actually found it a lot easier to just align with another host if your plans are NOT to recruit.
I know the question comes up about who will assist the team already in place. I've called my team and found out what their goals are. If their goals are not to book travel, I have referred them to someone else. MY goal is to get those who want to book travel to at least do it with another host.
ReplyDeleteHey Denyse, is that really you or is it your evil twin business partner (In My Humble Opinion) borrowing your computer again?
ReplyDeleteNo Moron Here said...
ReplyDeleteHey Denyse, is that really you or is it your evil twin business partner (In My Humble Opinion) borrowing your computer again?
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THIS is Denyse. I don't even have In My Humble Opinion anymore AND I don't have that business partner.
And she never borrowed my computer. We shared that blog account...so she every right to use it.
ReplyDeleterx4funtravel said...
ReplyDeleteTHIS is Denyse. I don't even have In My Humble Opinion anymore AND I don't have that business partner.
Oh, OK. Just checking since your stories and loyalties seem to change by the minute. I was just making sure.
No, they don't change by the minute. I actually am very loyal which is why it seems that I can't make a decision. Be that as it may...it's done.
ReplyDelete"THIS is Denyse. I don't even have In My Humble Opinion anymore AND I don't have that business partner."
ReplyDeleteUncanny resemblance between the two of you. I guess what they say about everyone having a double in life is true.
A Real Travel Pro said...
ReplyDelete"THIS is Denyse. I don't even have In My Humble Opinion anymore AND I don't have that business partner."
Uncanny resemblance between the two of you. I guess what they say about everyone having a double in life is true.
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Have you SEEN my business partner??? That would be the only way there could be an "uncanny resemblance". You all just want to say something so bad, you'll say anything!
They just can't let it go. I would apologize for them Denyse but I don't know who they are.
ReplyDeleteGood luck with everything!
Denyse - I think most are willing to give you the benefit of the doubt - I too don't understand why some can't let it go and count it as a win for TTA's. Many of us following this saga have often said here and elsewhere that we do believe that good people who really did want to work in this industry got drawn in by error into YTB. We encouraged them to look at it and choose a real host to continue with.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately because you had been such a vocal supporter - it is taking awhile for many to really trust what you are saying. There have been others before you that seemed to see the light and then were drawn back in and returned here with a vengence. But you seem to understand that and are rolling with it as you learn more and more of what we have been saying all along.
Good luck to you.
Bird makes a good point...if all of a sudden I came out and felt that MLM was the way to go and began recruiting, both sides would look at me with suspicion!
ReplyDeleteNot just suspicion John. We'd be hauling you off to the funny farm.
ReplyDeleteeddie said...
ReplyDeleteThey just can't let it go. I would apologize for them Denyse but I don't know who they are.
Good luck with everything!
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Don't even worry about it Eddie. I'm fine.
Little Bird said...
ReplyDeleteDenyse - I think most are willing to give you the benefit of the doubt - I too don't understand why some can't let it go and count it as a win for TTA's. Many of us following this saga have often said here and elsewhere that we do believe that good people who really did want to work in this industry got drawn in by error into YTB. We encouraged them to look at it and choose a real host to continue with.
Unfortunately because you had been such a vocal supporter - it is taking awhile for many to really trust what you are saying. There have been others before you that seemed to see the light and then were drawn back in and returned here with a vengence. But you seem to understand that and are rolling with it as you learn more and more of what we have been saying all along.
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Little Bird, I do understand what you're saying. I wouldn't agree, however, that I got drawn into YTB in error. I just always believe that everything I've done in my life has been either a positive or negative experience and has made me what I am today. I learn from ALL experiences so I'm still grateful for that experience - if you can understand that. Had it not been for YTB, I don't think I would ever have known the love of travel that I have.
I also understand about my vocalizations. I would hope that whatever anyone is involved in, they would support wholeheartedly - although others may disagree. But I really do see a LOT of things that have been shared with me. And I'm glad it turned out like it has! :)
John said...
ReplyDeleteBird makes a good point...if all of a sudden I came out and felt that MLM was the way to go and began recruiting, both sides would look at me with suspicion!
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LOL....agreed! And I guess the only thing that will change that is time.
Denyse, what a LOAD OF BULLSHIT! Don't forget that I have the message from you which I thought about posting but it was a private message. You've changed your tune so many times that I can't even keep track and I don't believe a word you say. I can't because of your continued BS.
ReplyDeleteYou also state that you're taking your downline to another host. That's stealing YTB's clients. I'm sure you have no problem with that though. Anything for a buck including your other MLM ventures.
And Eddie, there is no reason or need for you to apologize for me. "You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time." I fall in the last category.
LOL...no problem No Moron. I can change tunes but as long as I've finally made a decision that's what counts.
ReplyDeleteIf a person makes a decision that they want more in the travel industry, that's their decision. They have a right to take advantage of any opportunity they'd like. How is that stealing? Did someone steal me??? That person can work with whomever they choose. AND if anyone chooses to work with another host, I WILL GET NOTHING. So, how can it be for a buck?
Additionally, I have no other MLM ventures. I know you've mentioned the "cell phone MLM". I have never been involved in that. Someone approached me about it, I sent out an initial announcement, got no takers so I never became involved. YTB is the ONLY MLM I was involved in.
But I know your feelings about me. If they are so negative, why even talk to me? It's best we don't communicate because it's pointless.
rx4funtravel said..."But I know your feelings about me. If they are so negative, why even talk to me? It's best we don't communicate because it's pointless."
ReplyDeleteBecause I like to hear all of your different excuses. For example regarding the movement of your non-profits from YTB, you said, "I'm changing them all over now to my new host." You mean the bookings or the non-profits themselves? And if it's the non-profits, since they aren't TAs, how are you doing that?
No Moron Here said...
ReplyDeleteBecause I like to hear all of your different excuses. For example regarding the movement of your non-profits from YTB, you said, "I'm changing them all over now to my new host." You mean the bookings or the non-profits themselves? And if it's the non-profits, since they aren't TAs, how are you doing that?
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That is in the process as we speak. I can't divulge details until it's all worked out. When completed, I'll share it with you since you'll be paying the commissions. ;-)
Thanks for the deflection. As for commission checks, I didn't know I had the power to pay out. Let me check with my boss and I'll get back with you on that. I'd be very amused at writing you a commission check for $83K like you've claimed. Oh wait, it was six figures as I recall (and have in print). So what's going to be your next "story?"
ReplyDelete