It is a good thing that YTB added Identity Theft to the "Extras" tab on all those cloned websites.
In case all RTAs have not seen the new document, I suggest that you carefully read the document in your back office entitled Travel Site Owner Policies and Procedures (modified 12/15/2008)
This is one of the most frightening documents I have read in a long time and will be addressing several key areas in the upcoming days. However, it is clear that YTB is taking the YOUR out of the Travel Biz!
The new restrictions, rules, and edicts essentially decimate whatever business you thought you may have built over the years. You do not have a travel business. As a matter of fact, I might suggest that you might even be considered employees based on what is stated in that document.
To the 90 some thousand RTAs that remain, welcome to Coach's Travel Biz!
Since blogger does not support uploading of a PDF file, if you cannot access the document in your back office, please click here and I will be glad to email you a copy.
So, basically if you are in YTB, you don't "own" your clients (which are most likely your downline too), and you are not allowed to say YTB anywhere. You can't say it on your blog, your Craigslist ad, your personal website, your auto-signature on your email, any message boards, the magnet on your car, or your stunning lime green shirt that says "ask me how to travel for free."
ReplyDeleteHowever if you are not in YTB you can do just about whatever you want.
It does seem with the new policies that ytb has set forth that Wood River is trying to suspend the First Ammendment rights of their Rep's and RTA's. It's interesting that, even though these new policies went into effect on 12/15, how many REP/RTA's are blatently disregarding them. I wonder how long certain people will be allowed to continue in this manner.
ReplyDeleteGail Walker, over on WAHM still has a link to both her recruiting and travel site, in violation of sections 3.3 and 3.5.
FireMedic, in his blog posting of 12/19, mentions ytb by name, in violation of section 3.5.
Doug Baugknight, in his blog today, mentions ytb by name, in violation of section 3.5.
Denyse Turner, on WAHM, had been in violation of section 3.3 and 3.5, but as of 12/20, she had removed her blind link to her site, but only after being confronted with the actual verbage of the new policies. She claims that she had permission from Eran Distler via e-mail, which she posted on WAHM, however, she was in violation of a ytb policy by posting that e-mail as stated in the footer of that e-mail that "distribution of this message is strictly prohibited". I pointed this out, and subsequently, the entire thread has been removed, and my account on WAHM has been suspended. I do have, however, a screen capture of it, and if anyone wants to see it, just shoot me an e-mail at tvainsworth at gmail. (It seems that ytb has some sort of power over at WAHM. Any time something truthful that they don't want to hear is posted over there, it disappears, and the poster is either suspended or banned. This, despite protestations from the moderators that they have no sort of "agreement" with them. I'm just sayin'.)
Ainsworth the WAHM site if full of MLM's not just YTB. Any MLM on the planet is on there blatantly recruiting. Obviously, the moderator and owner's of the site are in an MLM or are getting paid to promote MLM's.
ReplyDeleteBack to the violations craigslist is full of them recent postings since the edict came out.
If YTB thinks they are going to control the masses after they have left them run amok all these years they must be smokin something.
Anonymous, I agree with you, but when the subject was broached with the moderators over there a while back, and Jeanine, the head moderator posted this statement "There has been no agreements to police or do anything with the moderators or with members.", and then does the exact thing that she says she is not doing, one must question the motivations and purposes of both the moderators, board, and board owners.
ReplyDeleteAs I said, all I did was to point out to someone that they were in violation of a new company policy, trying to help them out by keeping them abreast and keep them out of trouble. Now, how can that be construed as being anything but a good thing and helpful?
"you don't "own" your clients (which are most likely your downline too)"...
ReplyDeleteStatements like this are from the people I eat for breakfast in front of the JUDGE... Too easy of PREY... I like a challenge...
Why would your Downline be your CLIENTS?
According to the misconceptions spread around this blog, Your DOWNLINE, would be booking their own FAMS and DISCOUNTED TRAVEL. So according to the comments I have seen here, You DOWNLINE would be their OWN CLIENTS not yours.
I missed yall at HOOTER's this weekend...
Guess What?
WE HAD A HOOT!
Melvin everyone knows that the majority of the travel that gets booked at ytb is the personal travel of the ytb members. And YTB is notorious for recruiting people who contact them for travel requests. So yes in many cases your downline and your clients are the same people.
ReplyDeleteBut back to the topic at hand. The point of this conversation was the gag order that Coach has put on all the YTB members. How are you going to recruit? How are you going to continue to tell the world that you make ten grand a week and go to Disney for free 6 times a year if you can't post it on Craigslist or your blog? And here's the big question Melvin- if YTB reps are independent contractors, how is it that YTB can dictate what you can and can't say on your own blog?
YTBers can't do ANYTHING. They can't take pics they can't accidentally stumble and say YTB, they really can't promote anywhere online, no media whatsoever, nada...but YTB can 'exploit' them in any way, shape or form, whenever they want.
ReplyDeleteNext in line: Completing W-2s.
So...what are they to do? Tell people on the hush-hush and pray to God that that prospect doesn't have the compliance dept info?
What kind of business is that anyway? And I will be totally shocked (like it should be a surprise) if the brainwashed YTBers go for it. If they say, 'Coach is looking out for us!! We love you Coach!'
I don't think some of those terms are legally enforceable, if a smart YTB challenges that and took it to their own attorney to look it over. Also what happens if the smart one refuse to sign it?
ReplyDeleteApparently the word is getting out.
ReplyDeleteI am seeing blogs being modified a lot today.
I notice that there are no YTB posts on this matter (either anonymously or named).
I also see that the list of Top Commenters is changing and reflecting of the names previously used to register being deleted from the Google Profile.
I am guessing they are trying to close the barn door now the horses have escaped. What they are looking at is having the RTAs, Affiliates and "Travel Agents" revert back to the initial concept of only recruiting and marketing by word of mouth--physical word of mouth to people you see. Hand them YTB provided literature and hope for the best.
There also have been 73 requests this morning alone for the document.
I wonder how long it will take a sharp AG in some state to realize the document essentially classifies the RTAs as employees. And then goes after YTB for back employment taxes, worker's comp, social security, etc. In times like these, every state can use the money and with Florida, California, Texas, Georgia and surprisingly Marlyland in the top ten....I'm just sayin'
You are assuming that the RTAs are smart enough to take the document to have a legal review. That is a stretch!
ReplyDeleteIf you refuse to "sign" it, you will be terminated. That is fair enough. But your continued use of the "back office" and acceptance of any bookings or compensation by default (according to the contract) implies consent.
The original document they did sign (when they signed up) does indeed state that YTB can change the rules at their whim.
Well it looks like Coach is trying to take control of the situation that he started. A little to late IMO. Anyone that agrees those terms that are coming down the pipe line are in for some trouble. We all know how the YTB like to spout out about their earnings, travel free, etc etc. I wonder what all those people with their travel, names and numbers on their cars are going to do now?
ReplyDeleteAinsworth said...
ReplyDeleteAs I said, all I did was to point out to someone that they were in violation of a new company policy, trying to help them out by keeping them abreast and keep them out of trouble. Now, how can that be construed as being anything but a good thing and helpful?
That is PURE bullcrap!! If you had an ounce of sincerity about keeping anybody out of trouble, you would have contacted them directly instead of POSTING for ALL to see.
Why is it our job to police what you do? If you are in YTB you should be on top of all the changes made by YOUR company. The problem stems from YTB letting people do whatever they wanted, now that its gotten WAY outta hand, your now going to try and fix it? Thats funny really.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteAinsworth said...
As I said, all I did was to point out to someone that they were in violation of a new company policy, trying to help them out by keeping them abreast and keep them out of trouble. Now, how can that be construed as being anything but a good thing and helpful?
That is PURE bullcrap!! If you had an ounce of sincerity about keeping anybody out of trouble, you would have contacted them directly instead of POSTING for ALL to see.
Tried that, Anonymous, but all of the kind, caring, Christian ytbers on WAHM have blocked me from sending them private messages. How else am I supposed to let them know?
How does one contact an anonymous YTBer? How does one contact a YTBer from their site? You can't!
ReplyDeleteThey will all become anonymous when YTB sinks. Just like Larry, nothing, just like Eddie, just like the rest of them. When the scam goes away they will all run and hide.
ReplyDeleteTravel Lisa said...
ReplyDeleteWhy is it our job to police what you do? If you are in YTB you should be on top of all the changes made by YOUR company. The problem stems from YTB letting people do whatever they wanted, now that its gotten WAY outta hand, your now going to try and fix it? Thats funny really.
That WAS my point. He didn't HAVE to police anyone. We know OUR policies. And it was clear he wasn't trying to help - but to hurt. He/she or whatever it is.
Anonymous, been a conspiracy theorist long? Just because I don't agree with someone, doesn't mean that I will stand by and watch them get into trouble if there is anything I can do to help keep them out of it. And besides, someone has to police, since the ytb police that Kim Sorenson spoke of don't seem to be doing their job!
ReplyDeleteWell, let me beg to differ. IF you know your policies, why are these blogs still in existence? Why are the Craigslist posts still rampant?
ReplyDeleteYou see, the problem is that while you may KNOW your policies, you do not follow them and that has become a problem for YTB. It is not YTB that actually brought the AG down on them--it is the loudmouth Reps and RTAs that would not follow the policies that they all "know".
Of course, had they behaved, the ultimate discovery of the pyramid scheme may have lasted a bit longer.
Ainsworth said...
ReplyDeleteAnonymous, been a conspiracy theorist long? Just because I don't agree with someone, doesn't mean that I will stand by and watch them get into trouble if there is anything I can do to help keep them out of it. And besides, someone has to police, since the ytb police that Kim Sorenson spoke of don't seem to be doing their job!
AGAIN, IF you wanted to keep them out of trouble, you could have contacted them directly. And I know for a fact that you had been in touch with Denyse by email - so there's no excuse there buddy.
Ahhh now you're talking John. Now you AREN'T blaming the company, but the REPs.
ReplyDeleteAnd how am I supposed to contact someone when I have no contact information for them? Remember, RTA's have no contact information on their sites! And just because I have been in contact with someone in the past, what makes you think that I retained their e-mail address in my address book? And, how do you know who I have and have not been in contact with? Do you know that I have been in contact with Wood River this morning, and some of the things that were confirmed to me might just suprise you? Besides, Denyse said that to her, it was a closed issue and that she didn't feel that she had to provide an explanation, so why did she continue on with it?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteAhhh now you're talking John. Now you AREN'T blaming the company, but the REPs.
But if ytb wasn't signing up every Tom, Dick and Harry, from the state pen, and kept control over their brand, then the REPS and RTA's wouldn't and couldn't have gotten out of control, ergo, no issue. But, since they did, and they didn't keep control, they are now where they are.
Nope--the company designed a pyramid scheme. That much is clear. It likely would have run much longer and gotten much larger had it not been for the lack of control they have on the Reps and RTAs.
ReplyDeleteNeither is without fault for sure. But i can guarantee that the 3 Musketeers have made far more off this scheme than anyone else in the program
Anonymous the company let the REPS/RTA's go off and run amok in the first place. YTB KNEW what was going on.
ReplyDeleteNow, because they are in trouble they are closing the barn door. LMAO!
Funny thing is that Coach is making all these chages to try to keep from being shut down, but he still has this glaring problem...
ReplyDeleteYTB and their members make almost all their money from recruiting. The "RTA" position is pretty much a joke. The "RTAs" have paid almost 100 million dollars in fees... and have earned only about 16 million.
Thats it- sure all the clowns in lime green shirts running around conventions asking people if they want to travel like an insider makes them look bad, but thats just a symptom - not the real problem.
I love you all of the TTAs have become policy and procedure experts for YTB. Ainsworth is so worked up about YTB that he is calling the YTB home office. From Wood River,IL to Sacramento, CA, Ainsworth is quite the man.
ReplyDeleteYou people are out of control! You may not like YTB and our business model, but the obsession is unbelievable. This blog and its flagbearers have become the equivilent of the Daily Kos obsessing every hour of the day about George W. Bush.
John says that YTB "designed a pyramid scheme". Where were you 5 years ago, John? The "plan" has been in place for 8 years. The difference is that we were not selling the amount of travel that we are today. And that is obviously the rub.
If you are SO concerned about "pyramid schemes" having to do with travel, where is the concern about other MLM travel companies? Is it because they are not selling enough travel to get your attention? Or does it prove that you are not that concerned about the business model as you are with the RESULTS. And the RESULTS having to do with hundreds of millions in travel sales by YTB.
You should be going out of your way to stop these other companies before they get a foothold in the travel industry. Becoming a "CTA" for $129 with Traverus? Promoting TA FAMS as "Dream Trips" with World Ventures? Both of those should be red meat for you, John, and should go against everything you "stand" for.
You should be thrilled at the changes that YTB has been making over the past 3-4 months. A First Class Training that is ALL ABOUT TRAVEL AND NOTHING ABOUT MARKETING. You and your cronies harped about that for months. Even attended CRTAs incognito! The E-Campus training with Mark Mancini. YTB adhering to the new CLIA rules. No direct contact with vendors unless preceded by the First Class Training. YTB adhering to the Director program by the book with no promotions unless earned. Policing the web to keep the "Earls" under control. New, company-approved presentations so that you don't have the "terrible" experience that you sat in on at the meeting in Baltimore where you felt the guest Director free-lanced. I could go on and on.
Bottom line, YTB is making some great changes. Changes that should be music to your ears. But you and your detectives feel like you smell blood and are going in for the kill. It isn't going to happen.
Your hypocrisy is evident as you watch other MLMs work their "travel pyramid schemes" right before your eyes. You could shine the light there, because they are going against everything you "say" that you are against. But it shows it is not MLM and TRAVEL, it is only YTB and TRAVEL. Obsession and hyprocisy on display.
Two Hoots and Holler!
ReplyDeleteHOOT! HOOT! YEEE HAWWWW!
Ya'll calm down now before you STROKE OUT on me.
Yeah yeah yeah. You know one thing you are correct. 5 years ago I had not heard of YTB and likely because it was not as large and egregious as it is today. 15 years ago, many had not heard of Walmart, but millions do not like them today.
ReplyDeleteThe other MLMs are definitely equally as wrong for this industry as YTB is. As I have said countless times, they are not as loud, as braggadocio, and as pompous as YTB is. They are also not publicly traded so a lot of their information is not available for all to see. Had YTB been private, more likely than not, the attention woudl have faltered.
But the other MLMs are watching YTB very closely. Look at all the blogs they have about you. I only have one. They are watching California and the Class Actions and more likely than not they will either modify their plan accordingly or move on. Where YTB goes, so go the others.
And that's the point John...they are watching and modifying their plans. But they are STILL doing the same things now. So if you SO against the MODEL, then go after them just as strong as you are against YTB. And if you think they aren't as loud and pompous, you haven't really read the forums or looked at their videos. Take a look and do a blog on them.
ReplyDeleteNo matter what coach does now, it's too late. The AG is bringing the suit for what was happening then, changing now won't make a bit of difference.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI love you all of the TTAs have become policy and procedure experts for YTB. Ainsworth is so worked up about YTB that he is calling the YTB home office. From Wood River,IL to Sacramento, CA, Ainsworth is quite the man.
Who said anything about calling Wood River? Why would I waste money calling there? I do, however, have some quite interesting communiques from Wood River. You might be suprised!
As stated time and again, ytb gets the lion share of attention because they're the loudest out there. Haven't you ever heard the old cliche the squeaky wheel gets the grease? Maybe if ytb had kept their people, and themselves, under control, they wouldn't be the focus of such intense scrutiny.
Regarding all the changes that have taken place in the last few months....why did there even have to be changes? Why wasn't it truly 2 seperate entities to begin with? Why wasn't the training there to begin with? Why wasn't some level of knowledge required to begin with? Why did these changes only come into being once the microscope came into play? If the "first class" TRAVEL training about nothing but travel, why is it being taught by people who have no travel experience, only marketing experience? Too many questions, not enough proper answers.
And now with the new policies and procedures in place, especially the ones that stifle the First Amendment rights of ytber's, it's baffling why anyone would stay.
John allows them to operate under the radar. The "loud and pompous" comes from the large numbers in YTB. Also responding to the agenda against YTB (not MLM travel in general) that John displays on a daily basis.
ReplyDeleteIt is ALL ABOUT YTB. Not MLM travel. Like I said, two up and coming travel MLMs who have been recruiting and selling very little travel. And, the funny part is both are being operated by founders who have started MLM travel companies and closed them numerous times. Were any people "hurt" by them? Were any of those people "scammed"? If John were true to his beliefs, he would be after them. But he plays the "publically-traded card". Traverus and World Ventures hold meetings all across the country. Not hard to find them. Never heard a report from detective John or detective Ainsworth about attending one of their recruiting meetings or attending one of their "trainings".
Yes, it is all about YTB to John. Not MLM Travel.
Sorry dude there is only one of me and 99,000 of you. Besides, I am working in reverse alphabetical order!
ReplyDeleteCan you name _ANY_ other travel MLM that has hurt as many members?
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think the CA attorney general chose to single you out? Was it because the TTAs made him do it? Or maybe it was because the RTAs have lost 86 million dollars in the past 9 months.
YTB is the most egregious violator so YTB gets the most attention.
How many RTAs have failed with YTB this year? Over 86,000 had quit by September....
Can you name any other travel MLM that has failed so many members?
Just think about it - over 86,000 people each paid their $450 membership fee and $50 a month....
86,000 * $500 = $43,000,000
Thats just looking at the first month of membership.
86,000 RTAs paid 43 million dollars to YTB and then when the program failed, they quit.
I know that YTBers will tell us that there is nothing wrong with their program - just because it doesn't work for almost eveyone.... Just because 86,000 people failed in the first 9 months of the year... Its their own fault....
Of course any reasonable person, that stepped back and saw that YTB has collected almost 100 million in fees while only paying out 16 million in travel comissions was not working and that would explain why the 86,000+ people quit after paying all that money...
Looks like you need a special Christmas present, anonymous:
ReplyDelete"Math Made Easy - Children's Version". You are definitely needed some help with those numbers.
Which number do you not like?
ReplyDeleteThe RTAs Paid 97,786,861 in fees during the first 9 months of 2008
The RTAs recieved back 16,234,166 in travel comissions during the first 9 months of 2008
You got me - the RTAs lost exactly: $81,552,695 in just 9 months.
Oh and 86,358 RTAs quit during the first 9 months of the year... is that exact enough for you?
Just to demonstrate the degree of failure -
86,358 * 500 = $43,179,000
So there you go - you now know exactly how miserable the RTAs did during the first 9 months of the year.
And thats why the California AG is trying to shut them down - because they have hurt more people than the others...
Wow and now the YTB poster on here is WHINING! Whether or not anyone agrees with the travel MLM model, you YTB people are arrogant, selfish, obnoxious and loud barkers that didn't know when to shut the hell up. Yeah, 5 years ago you didn't hear squat diddly, but b/c you guys drank the koolaid (which Scott Tomer so proudly states on a video a while back)and started thinking you will rule the world with Jesus, and that the whole world will be using YTB...come ON NOW. What did you EXPECT?
ReplyDeleteYou people have trampled on TTAs,I mean look at your new marketing video!! Trampled on other travel MLMs for the simple fact that they weren't as big in numbers as YTB (like you are doing here, with MISINFORMATION), and trampled on anyone who DOESN'T see that YTB will save their lives ROFL.
And you know what, whether I agree with WV, or TraVerus, there are other regular host agencies who are not as big as YTB or WV and TraVerus and doing just fine. So what makes a legitimate travel company to you?? Having over 100k people? Most of them not doing not a damn thing? I don't think so. You are smoking crack. And drinking the koolaid. And been brainwashed. And reading Chapter D in your manual daily.
Before you whine about other travel companies CLEAN UP YOUR OWN BACK YARD.
Keep crying until you get shut down and you will have noone to cry to but your family when they ask what happened? Or your friends who joined you and they wonder what happened. Or your clients who expected to cruise/fly and they can't get a hold of you. IF you are even selling travel.
Yes other travel MLMS are looking at YTB is doing, and they are learning the stuff NOT TO DO. No other travel MLMs have experienced that much loss as YTB has...so keep on worrying about YOUR company. Say some prayers, cuz you are gonna need it!
Are you sure about you math there Partner?
ReplyDeleteYou seem to be pulling numbers outta thin air...
Where are these stats coming from... you cant believe what you read here.
Have you done your DUE DILIGENCE?
I see all kinda numbers quoted around here.
But no one has shown a reliable source of the numbers. So your math skills and stats are less than adequate to be used as factually quoted statements.
My GOODNESS! What WHINING and BELLYACHING?
ReplyDeleteSounds like the TTA's are hurting from ALL the BUSINESS that YTB has taken from them.
If that is not the case, then WHY ALL the WHINING?
If ALL of YTB is so incompetent, then WHY are TTA's so worked up about little ole YTB.
I think they have seen the TRUE NUMBERS and are counting their own days left in existence.
And they intend to go out fighting.
Thats what it looks like to me...
Melvin, Give me HOOT!
Can't you Anons be patient?! We'll get to the others in due time. Stay tuned.
ReplyDeleteThats funny, I'm not a TTA. I was a person approached by a YTBite. I want nothing to do with them and hope they get shut down ASAP. SO what does that make me?
ReplyDeleteThe numbers above come from YTB's 3rd quarter report to the Securities and Exchange Commision.
ReplyDeleteOnce again - why do YTBers deny everything. I can copy straight out of YTB's own financial reports, and they still deny them.
to anyone that doubts YTB is doing as poorly as I posted above - go look for yourself.
The RTAs Paid 97,786,861 in fees during the first 9 months of 2008
The RTAs recieved back 16,234,166 in travel comissions during the first 9 months of 2008
The RTAs lost exactly: $81,552,695 in just 9 months.
(yes that is 81+ million dollars.)
Oh and 86,358 RTAs quit during the first 9 months of the year...
I know the YTB motto is deny all negative information, but when the source is YTB themselves you look pretty stupid.
What do you call an MLM that charges almost 100 million dollars in membership fees to only pay back 16 million in sales comissions- I call it a pyramid scheme.
ReplyDelete"SO what does that make me?"
ReplyDeleteIgnorant and a liar.
If you want nothing to do with YTB, then you wouldn't be on this blog posting.
You Share the same PASSION as John.
You are just not as well informed or educated as John.
I think they have seen the TRUE NUMBERS and are counting their own days left in existence.
ReplyDeleteYou have to be kidding. Do you honestly believe that YTB's piddly numbers are hurting TTA's? Thats funny. When you have 100K people selling travel, and only sell $200 million, thats horrific. Look at Amex and CWT will you please, I believe their numbers are in the BILLIONS with far less TTA's then YTB, I do not see them fearing anyone bud. You all seem to think that YTB is putting all of us out of business, that the internet will take over us all. Do your homework will you...do not take everything you read on YTB.com or their crappy videos as truths, they are very far from it. The internet numbers you all like to spout about people booking online are also Travel Agents using the internet. Something you would know if you were an actual agent. Instead you live in your rose-colored world where YTB is the be-all-end-all to eventually rule the world. Its never going to happen.
Calling someone who loves their job and doesn't want to see it sullied by the likes of idiots like travellingmom, earl and the countless liars who've come on this blog, an idiot just makes you foolish and blind. Think for yourselves will you. Stop believing everything you are fed, do your homework and open your eyes.
"The RTAs lost exactly: $81,552,695 in just 9 months."
ReplyDeleteThose are your calculations. That is not what the report says. How many business ventures have you been in that paid back your investment and made profit in the first nine months?
Your SPIN of the numbers is indicative of your lack of BUSINESS Experience.
"The RTAs received (corrected spelling)back 16,234,166 in travel commissions(also corrected spelling) during the first 9 months of 2008"
This does not answer how much the REPS made back by recruiting. You only SPUN the NUMBERS for the RTA's.
SO YOU ARE FINALLY ADMITTING there are TWO SEPARATE COMPANIES within YTB.
psst: your Freudian slip is showing...
And it ain't sexy...
The spelling corrections are FREE of Charge.
Have a Merry Christmas!
BRAVO LISA!
ReplyDeleteTwo HOOTS for you!
HOOT! HOOT!
How can you call them my calculations? It is a fact that the RTAs paid about 97 million dollars in fees and. It is a fact that the RTAs earned about 16 million dollars in travel comissions.
ReplyDeleteThose are facts. You can call it "My calculations" but if you sum up those two numbers, you see that the RTAs paid about 81 million dollars more than they recieved back.
Who is the one spinning when you claim you can't just look at how much they paid vs how much they earned?
Here is the funny part - go back for a few years... EVERY YEAR is the same. The RTAs pay more than they earn.
Its a pyramid scheme. Thats why you want people to look at the Rep numbers. You need to see that all the money is in recruiting- NOT selling travel.
Oh and what about the 86,000+ people who quit during the first nine months of the year? No comment there? Guess its all their fault.. Hey the program is great, but almost everyone quits...
If the RTA program actually worked, why would so many people quit after paying so much money?
Melvin, cut it out... you just want to see Lisa's Hooters...
ReplyDeleteIf she was not worried about 'lil ole YTB, then she would not waste her time posting here.
She's in Survivalist mode along with all the others who post here.
I can't blame her. If my profession was in danger of being replaced by inexperienced website owners, I would be intimidated also.
"Oh and what about the 86,000+ people who quit during the first nine months of the year?".
ReplyDeleteDid the REPS or the RTA's Quit? I have not heard of any REPS quitting... so you must be referring to RTA's. How does one QUIT being an RTA?
Hmmm??? Quit paying the monthly website fee?
Thats your idea of QUITTING.
SPIN SPIN SPIN
REHAB is for QUITTERS.
YTB is for RECRUITERS.
YTB TRAVEL is for TRAVEL WEBSITES.
I'm sorry that you are so confused...
LOL I'm far from being endangered by the likes of YTB. When your company can prove its actually selling more travel then recruiting, then maybe you can say something...until then I'll continue to work for an actual travel agency who doesnt feel the need to run a pyramid, actually sells travel, and doesnt hawk misc crap on their site. :) Worried..umm no. Disgusted..yes.
ReplyDeleteFunny thing...the one division of travel that I do most, CANNOT book online. Would you know why..probably not! Or the other division (corporate travel) has tried booking online only to come back to an agent because the internet cannot replace service. I'll gladly take that $1M plus account, thanx travelocity. I will however thank you for making me laugh...that post was truly funny.
heee heeee heee haaaa haaaaa haaaaa
ReplyDeleteYeah thats it- prior to YTB there were never web sites where people could book their own travel. Us TTAs are scared that the public might figure out that they can book their own trips.....
heaven forbit if it catches on and some company like orbitz, travelocity, or even the providers themselves like American Airline, United, etc etc actually open their own web site for customers to book their own travel..
Obviously the TTAs are petrified that YTB might actually give customers the opportunity to book their own travel...
Heeeeeee heeeee heeee haaaaaa haaaaa haaaa
Hey at least you got all the money from those 86,000 suckers before they figured YTB out and quit....
"If the RTA program actually worked, why would so many people quit after paying so much money?"
ReplyDeleteIt only cost $500 to get in...
You think that is SOOO MUCH MONEY...
No wonder your WHINING!
Go pick up your Food Stamps...
$500 to get your own TRAVEL WEBSITE...
If you can't afford $500, then you don't need to be in this business.
This argument is a case of wanting cake and eating it too (although I don;t really understand that phrase).
ReplyDeleteOn one hand, YTB says they are 2 separate companies. Well, one of those companies (YTBTN) is a loser and the RTAs paid in (round numbers) $100M and got $15M back. Looks like a loser to me.
But the other company (YTB)seems like a winner because they don't pay into the program.
But where YTB is wrong is that they take from one company and feed the other. Not two separate are they?
"how does one quit being an RTA"
ReplyDeleteFrom what I have read, its a pain... Apparently YTB has created a retention department since so many people are quitting.... I guess you have to call in and try to get them to let you quit, at which point they offer you free months and other perks to try to keep you around. You have to push through all that stuff to be able to actually get out of YTB....
But with 86,000 people quitting in just 9 months- sure sounds like YTB is for quitters... (or suckers)
"If you can't afford $500, then you don't need to be in this business."
ReplyDeleteYou guys are killing me - did you know that Coach lowered the price to $250 - because everyone is bailing out.....I guess your almighty Coach thinks that people that can't afford $500 need to be in the business...
See how John Responds Logically.
ReplyDeleteYou other people respond emotionally.
It's not very Professional to let your EMOTIONS show.
Great Response John!
I was a REP and I quit.
ReplyDeleteI fail to see how this conversation about YTB benefits ANYONE. If they are doing wrong, let them. If you don't like the company or the business model, it'll crash without these comments. Why warn people they're wrong so they can change it? (You really don't believe Ainstworth tried to not let people get in trouble, do you??). Don't you have anything better to do?
ReplyDelete"I think they have seen the TRUE NUMBERS and are counting their own days left in existence."
ReplyDeleteAnother koolaid drinker that has no clue. We can rehash things repeatedly and these robots will still say the same thing. That's funny. How some YTBers demand they are NOT competing with TTAs...and then here we have THIS one who is convinced YTB is taking over the whole world. And their marketing vid.
"My GOODNESS! What WHINING and BELLYACHING?
Sounds like the TTA's are hurting from ALL the BUSINESS that YTB has taken from them."
Yet another YTB zombie...read above.
YTbers should be whining to the company on why they can't say a darn thing. And if these Anons were so confident in their business they wouldn't be posting as Anons. lol
"If you want nothing to do with YTB, then you wouldn't be on this blog posting."
And if you weren't so threatened by the truth you also wouldn't be here posting on John's blog, and booking more travel..or not lol.
"REHAB is for QUITTERS.
YTB is for RECRUITERS.
YTB TRAVEL is for TRAVEL WEBSITES."
It's really sad that these people are in deep deep denial. I don't think any of these YTBers that posted read the new Policies. Poor things. They are not even supposed to mention the 'Y' word online. They are lucky they are Anon, or each of them would be reported.
They are still spoutin off even though they have all rights taken from them practically Poor things can't even figure out that the numbers are posted on their own sites.
Instead of writing here they need to put in a support ticket ro their home office.
"I fail to see how this conversation about YTB benefits ANYONE. If they are doing wrong, let them. If you don't like the company or the business model, it'll crash without these comments. Why warn people they're wrong so they can change it? (You really don't believe Ainstworth tried to not let people get in trouble, do you??). Don't you have anything better to do?"
ReplyDeleteUmmmm...are you with YTB? Have you seen half the blogs/videos/message boards? If you have you wouldn't be saying anything. Or don't read if you fail ro see it.
They thought they could come in everywhere and make people feel inferior b/c they aren't w/ ytb. And expect people not to respond? Please.
"Sounds like the TTA's are hurting from ALL the BUSINESS that YTB has taken from them."
ReplyDeleteROTFLMAO and that stupid remark!
Oh and to quit just call Rex Carr. I am sure they will help you quit.
"Oh and to quit just call Rex Carr. I am sure they will help you quit."
ReplyDeleteWhy would I quit? It's not costing me anything to run my YTB Business. I made my $500 back IN TRAVEL COMMISSIONS, yes IN TRAVEL COMMISSIONS over 2 years ago. I have my 6 and it dont cost me anything to stay in. Why would I quit?
Your apparently a failure in your social skills.
It shows in your writing... Are you going to QUIT LIFE because you have no social skills?
Probably not... So what gives you the right to tell others to QUIT? OH, I'm sorry... DID I HURT your feelings?
GROW UP and ACCEPT LIFE!
"They thought they could come in everywhere and make people feel inferior b/c they aren't w/ ytb."
ReplyDeleteThey make PEOPLE FEEL INFERIOR...
Sounds like alot of INSECURE TTA's out there.
Another Freudian slip.
"They make PEOPLE FEEL INFERIOR..."
Your out of touch with your feelings...
There you go again... NO FACTS or LOGIC...
JUST EMOTIONS...
Let John handle the BLOG. He presents FACTS,
NOT EMOTIONS:)
Is he insinuating an inferiority complex?
ReplyDeleteThat's DEEP Dude!
Anonymous said... (You really don't believe Ainstworth tried to not let people get in trouble, do you??).
ReplyDeleteOh, ye of little faith, and at this time of year! Another Anonymous, afraid of the new ytb policies and procedures to let their identity be known, who is also a conspiracy theorist.
Just because YOU may have insidious ulterior motives in everything you do, please don't project your failings onto me.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteUmmmm...are you with YTB? Have you seen half the blogs/videos/message boards? If you have you wouldn't be saying anything. Or don't read if you fail ro see it.
They thought they could come in everywhere and make people feel inferior b/c they aren't w/ ytb. And expect people not to respond? Please.
As a matter of fact, I'm not with YTB. I'm actually a TTA. And don't say anything about my ANON posting - plenty of you are doing the same.
I only commented because it makes no sense to keep bashing and re-hashing items here. We ALL know YTB is going nowhere, they'll lose the suits, they already don't book travel and they'll crash and burn probably in 2009. So, why waste time here with these comments???
That's what I don't understand.
"Let John handle the BLOG. He presents FACTS,
ReplyDeleteNOT EMOTIONS:)"
No emotions here...you assume, but you can't hear my tone on blogs. Heck if you did it'd probably tick you guys off b/c I laugh my ass off at you guys b/c you are truly a joke that call yourselves businesspeople. You just don't know it. My point is that YTB made their bed and now they will lay in it, going down screaming or not.
8 years to implement
8 years to be legit
8 years is ample time to get it right.
But they chose not to until AG stepped in.
And every post that any YTBer has is filled with emotion. If they thought with FACTS and not EMOTION, most would be gone out of YTB by now.
Anon TTA, I didn't mean to be rude. You are right about rehashing..they will crash and burn on their own, but I think that it's great that John keeps his blogs objective...he states facts alll the time...it's those YTB pests that 'can't handle the truth.'
Some will come to the light and send John an email to thank him. The truth hurts, but when it wears off SOME will see. Until then...sigh...we will keep getting nonsense from them.
All this nonsense back and forth.
ReplyDeleteStill evading my points:
Traverus . . . $129 and become a CTA - Certified Travel Agent (thought that would at least get a reaction out of good old CTA in MD). Recruit, recruit, recruit . . .
World Ventures . . . TA FAM Trips galore known as Dream Trips. The main recruiting thrust as they recruit, recruit, recruit . . .
Not much travel being sold by either company and with owners with checkered pasts starting and closing MLM travel companies over the past decade.
Both should be high crimes and misdemeanors for the TTAs and their ring leader, John Frenaye. I guess you must agree with the way they conduct their business. Or is it just selective criticism? I just looked back at the archives from November and December and ALL POSTS are about YTB. 47 posts (except for Go Vote and Happy Thanksgiving) ALL ABOUT YTB.
Again, it proves that this blog is all about YTB and not about MLM travel. Might as well change the name of the blog, John.
TTA here:
ReplyDeleteBut why is it important to state facts at all?? Why is it important to be in the business of a company that you're not involved in?? We already see where they're headed. Why put salt in the wound? If you don't spend so much bashing them, you'll have more time to book more travel and we can show them who's really #1 in this industry!!
TTA here:
ReplyDeleteAnd that ANON does have a point. There are NO posts on ALL of the other MLM travel companies. And I know YTB is the only publically-traded company so the info is out there. But come on, as resourceful as John is, I know he can find info on those companies as well.
The ONLY posts are on YTB. Something fishy about that.
Now we got HOOTING EMOTIONS!
ReplyDeleteHOOT! HOOT!
☺ ♥ ☺ ♥ ☺ ♥ ☺
The reasons all of the post are on YTB is because YTB is THE MOST OBNOXIOUS of them all. They are the most arrogant. They bragged they were going to take over the trillion dollar industry and put everyone else out of business. Problem is YTB is run by a known scam artist. Can you say failed gas additive scheme? Failed shares in the Lisa Marie?
ReplyDeleteNo one in the travel industry likes or respects YTB except TW and that gushing baffoon over there.
Oh yea and all you YTB corporate types reading this blog how does it feel to work for a bunch of bozos?
If you go back in the archives of this blog, you will find that there are those of us that have levied the same criticisms of Traverus, World Ventures, Coastal Vacations, and a host of others. It is true that the vast majority of the info here is about YTB, but that is because there is the most public info about YTB and the YTB crowd has been by far the most vocal. I'd like to see ALL the MLM "travel" companies gone, along with the more traditional card mills too.
ReplyDeleteSteve Mencik said...
ReplyDeleteIf you go back in the archives of this blog, you will find that there are those of us that have levied the same criticisms of Traverus, World Ventures, Coastal Vacations, and a host of others. It is true that the vast majority of the info here is about YTB, but that is because there is the most public info about YTB and the YTB crowd has been by far the most vocal. I'd like to see ALL the MLM "travel" companies gone, along with the more traditional card mills too.
Great, then impress me and feature one company each week. Or don't feature any. Again, I don't have anything to gain and I'm not taking up for YTB. What I'm doing is saying there should be a level playing field if you're going to bash. You haven't given any reasons for the constant feature of YTB that mean anything. I'll tell you - the most arrogant and obnoxious person I met was from TraVerus. And its also ludicrous to say no one in travel industry likes them except TW. That is absolutely not true. I'm sorry to rock the boat but right is right and wrong is wrong.
Steve Mencik qualifies for the MP "HOOT" of the Day!
ReplyDelete"If you go back in the archives of this blog, you will find that there are those of us that have levied the same criticisms of Traverus, World Ventures, Coastal Vacations, and a host of others."
Steve again . . .
"It is true that the vast majority of the info here is about YTB"
Vast majority??
October - 38 posts - ALL YTB
November - 27 posts - ALL YTB
December - 20 posts (so far) - ALL YTB
Many days ONE POST is not enough for John Frenaye. Just like today - TWO POSTS ABOUT YTB.
Recruit, Recruit. TA FAMS as DREAM TRIPS. $129 to become a CTA!
It is happening as the "concerned" TTAs and their Detective give them a pass.
Because it is YTB . . . ALL THE TIME.
(How to you spell H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y ?)
(How do you spell W-H-I-N-E-R?)
ReplyDeleteHey, this blog is what it is. He started it and can write about whatever he wants. How come Doogie never writes about Travers? Go give his shit about it.
ReplyDeleteOn second thought, why don't you start a blog of the evils of the other MLMs? Afraid you might look like the H-I-P-O-C-R-I-T-E?
I am not the smarted egg in the carton, but I got the message John and the others said. The other MLMs are watching YTB and going to not do what they YTB do9es if they go down (like they likley will this coming year). But for now--YTB is the one being targeted.
Call the attorneys that are suing you and tell them you demand they include the others too.
Sheesh
Funny how all the whiners seem to spend so much time reading this blog and posting on it every day. If you don't like the blog, move on. No one is going to cry if you leave and no one makes you read it or come here. Start your own blog. If you don't like this blog, oh well.
ReplyDeleteGeez, they are out of defenses so now they are like 'wah wah wah, talk about Traverus, wah wah wah talk about WV.'
ReplyDeleteI agree. This blog isn't the be all end all of blogs. if you don't like it. STOP READING IT. And go....book some TRAVEL!
Go cry to your Savior Coach.
Did anyone forget to mention that this IS John's blog? That means he can talk about anything he wants regardless of what company he 'targets'.
ReplyDeleteIf you don't LIKE it don't READ it.
I'm not in any travel co. anymore but I used to be in YTB AND tried TraVerus.
ReplyDeleteThe YTBer poster obsessed with TraVerus - dude you can't even get the info in your own company right and the info about TraVerus IS WRONG. You have no idea how TraVerus works, down the the cost to join as a RTC or CTA. I am with a host agency now parttime, but I will say and it's MY OPINION. TraVerus is MUCH better than YTB. Yes every commpany has their pompous buttheads, but I know the difference in what they are doing and where they are headed. Worry about your own dude. Worry about your own.
I left b/c I have been around the MLM block too many times, and by the time I joined Trav,I was tired.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteAll this nonsense back and forth.
Still evading my points:
Traverus . . . $129 and become a CTA - Certified Travel Agent (thought that would at least get a reaction out of good old CTA in MD). Recruit, recruit, recruit . . .
World Ventures . . . TA FAM Trips galore known as Dream Trips. The main recruiting thrust as they recruit, recruit, recruit . . .
Not much travel being sold by either company and with owners with checkered pasts starting and closing MLM travel companies over the past decade.
Both should be high crimes and misdemeanors for the TTAs and their ring leader, John Frenaye. I guess you must agree with the way they conduct their business. Or is it just selective criticism? I just looked back at the archives from November and December and ALL POSTS are about YTB. 47 posts (except for Go Vote and Happy Thanksgiving) ALL ABOUT YTB.
Again, it proves that this blog is all about YTB and not about MLM travel. Might as well change the name of the blog, John.
FireMedic, why are you using the "Anonymous" feature all of a sudden? Scared of the big, bad coach and his new rules?
Anonymous said...
TTA here:
But why is it important to state facts at all?? Why is it important to be in the business of a company that you're not involved in?? We already see where they're headed. Why put salt in the wound? If you don't spend so much bashing them, you'll have more time to book more travel and we can show them who's really #1 in this industry!!
TTA, because there are some of us who feel passionatly about riding our industry of this parasite of a company. I'll give you the same advice that I've given others......if you don't agree with what we're doing, then don't come here and read all about it. Obviously you don't understand how, not only this company, but all MLM travel companies are destroying our profession. In RE: your question as to why this blog seems to be all about ytb, again, that has been asked and answered multiple times. There are posts regarding other MLM travel companies, but the majority are about ytb because, yes, they are publicly traded and has the most information available about them, but they are also the loudest, most vocal, most obnoxious one out there. Squeaky wheel gets the oil. The most obnoxious person YOU have ever met may have been from Traverus, but for the rest of us, they have been from ytb.
And, TTA, along with everything said above, after going back and reading your postings over the last 2 days, you sure do use a lot of the same buzz phrases that the ytbers use. If you take the time to read the ENTIRE blog, you will find a running theme among the ytber posts, and that is the same words, phrases, sentence structure, etc., and you have them all. Not saying you aren't who you say you are, but I'm just sayin'.
"There are posts regarding other MLM travel companies"
ReplyDeleteAinsworth: You did everything but answer my question. Where ARE THE "posts regarding other MLM travel companies"?
Nothing in the last ninety days about Traverus and World Ventures: Zero, Zip, Nada.
If you are so concerned about the effect that MLM is having on the travel industry, I would think that you would find within yourselves a bit of concern about these other companies. You have two companies teeing the ball up for you and you look the other way. Yes, YTB is publically-traded, but there is plenty of information out there to comment on both of these programs.
"I'll give you the same advice that I've given others......if you don't agree with what we're doing, then don't come here and read all about it."
No, I enjoy reading it.
And exposing your hypocrisy when it comes to your "concern" about "MLM Travel".
Anonymous TTA, your comments are still eerily similiar to those of the ytb zealots in our midst, especially your last sentence above. The more you post, the less convinced I am that you are truly a TTA.
ReplyDeleteYou need to read beyond the last 90 days. This blog is more than 90 days old. And who's to say what the future will bring? Yes, the focus today may be ytb, but tomorrow it could be any one of the other MLM's. Tomorrow, next week, next month........right now, yes, I am focused on the biggest and the "baddest" of the bunch. Again, the squeakest wheel gets the grease.
Hey - why don't you complain to the California AG - that YTB isn't the only pyramid scam they should shut down.... Or better yet - talk to the lawyers for the class action lawsuit and see if they can work a case for the the other MLMs...
ReplyDeleteI bet some of you idiots think that when your pulled over by a cop for going 85 in a 65 you can just get out of it by claiming that other people were speading also.
YTB is far and away the most egregious violator. Thats why the sky is pretty much falling for them
"You need to read beyond the last 90 days. This blog is more than 90 days old."
ReplyDelete90 days solid of YTB. Duh. Your excuses are . . . excuses. If travel MLMs were the big concern, maybe John (or one of his crack substitute reporters) could find a little, teeny, tiny bit of time to report on these other companies who claim they have YTB RTAs "flocking to them". It won't happen. John is month-in, month-out obsessed with YTB only.
"Yes, the focus today may be ytb, but tomorrow it could be any one of the other MLM's"
I'll be holding my breath. LOL.
\
The last time I checked, this was still John's blog. He can write about whatever it is he wants to write about. If you don't want to read it. Don't.! As for the other MLM companies, they get plenty of face time on WAHM, SCAM and other blogs. Hell even one of your own YTB people slams Traverus on his own blog.
ReplyDeleteIf you feel its not fair, build a bridge and get yourself over it. Then make your own blog and write about whatever you want. Really...enough already! Get back to the posts at hand.
LOL - Too Funny . . .
ReplyDeleteHere we are going into a new year and the old hens are still talking about the same old chit.
Tom