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A Holiday Check List
- Sell ID cards, get fired by several suppliers--check
- Try to infiltrate Canada without obeying their laws--check
- Get IATAN endorsement yanked--check
- Appeal IATAN yanking and lose--check
- Find loophole in new CLIA requirements--check
- Filter $6 million to private company--check
- Lose a lot of money on buildings--check
- Buy a plane to look important--check
- Sell plane and lose money--check
- Don't listen to the Attorney General in California--check
- Get sued by the Attorney General in California--check
- Bail out the RTA that ripped people off in Baltimore--check
- Bail out the RTA that ripped people off in Houston--check
- Bail out the RTA that ripped people off in Memphis--check
- Pique the interest of the Attorney General in Illinois--check
- Pique the interest of the Attorney General in Florida--check
- Pique the interest of the Attorney General in Texas--check
- Pique the interest of the Attorney General in Louisiana--check
- Pump stock and sell it off--check
- Don't let independent Board Directors do their job--check
- Screw up Burt Saunder's dream for a DC gig--check
- Create a website to further cloud the truth--check
- Layoff 17 employees--check
- Lose $3.3 million in nine months--check
- Implement bonus reset program that fails--check
- Implement unreachable bonus programs that the RTAs will think they can reach--check
- Have more Reps and RTAs leave in the 3rd and 4th quarters than sign up--check
- Mention that Carnival has a rock climbing wall on the Cruise-A-Thon webcast--check
- Have no clue how much travel was sold or how many people sold it--check
- Sell more land to raise cash--check
- Try to deflect the Attorney General by saying its a franchise--check
- Buy some positive press from Saturday Evening Post--check
- Make the claim Inc. magazine endorses us--check
Too much to tackle at once. "Several" suppliers? RCCL (I'll give you that one) and Perillo Tours, who YTB did not have much of a relationship with to begin with. Made great press and the traditional community got excited, but no substance. YTB got "fired" by someone who they hardly knew. "Several" out of hundreds that YTB continues to do business with. And, quite frankly, appreciate the business that we give them in this economy.
ReplyDeleteOK, JF. Give us the evidence that YTB "filtered" $6 million to Beryl Martin. A nice myth that you have tried to perpetuate, but absolutely no facts at all.
John,
ReplyDeletecurious to know what exactly the California AG said to YTB that YTB didn't listen? Were you there? Has that been reported?
Have more REPS and RTAs leave than sign up?
ReplyDeleteWhere is the data showing how many REPS leave?
Where is the evidence that YTB pumped up the stock price?
ReplyDeleteThe bonus reset program failed?
ReplyDeleteso 4 other attorneys general have had their interest piqued? Any guess as to why they didn't do anything? Maybe they looked at the Californai AG case and realized it has NO merit.
ReplyDeleteWow, laid off 17 employess in a whole year that has a recessed economy? I do feel for those 17, but when companies are laying of 10s of thousands and the unemployment rate is at the highest in quite some time, laying off 17 isn't too bad.
ReplyDeleteThis is the position by YTB about Inc magazine...quite different from "makes the claim that Inc Magazine endorses us"
ReplyDeleteFrom the facts website..."In the Franchise section of Inc. Magazine's November 2008 issue, writer Candee Wilde included YTB in her top ten "franchises" in the travel industry with other known travel companies such as Carson Wagonlit Travel and Choice Hotels. Ms. Wilde's article is written in response to the question, "In these rocky financial times, is it wise to purchase a franchise in the travel industry? " Candee suggests that it is a wise decision to invest in a travel franchise opportunity because with today's economy, the travel industry is solid with few barriers to entry in terms of cost or experience. YTB's continued success in the sale of travel web sites is evidence of the wisdom in Ms. Wilde's recommendation."
YTB had 3 travel-relatedproblems that made the press, out of 100,000 plus RTAs. John Frenaye showed up on the scene at each like an ambulance-chasing attorney to be the YTB "expert".
ReplyDeleteWhere was John Frenaye this year when many more traditional agents caused travel-related problems for customers? Some in the tens of thousands of dollars where the public was ripped off. John was never there to comment on those rip-off artists causing problems for hundreds of customers among his traditional travel agent community.
Where's Johnny??
Try to disobey Candian law?
ReplyDeleteCome on John, another big stretch. Is YTB in compliance with Canadian law? YES! PERIOD!
This is all so funny that people do not see what is going on...
ReplyDeleteI feel for the people going through this in all honesty. I couldn't imagine believing in something so much and trying to change my life with it to see or face all the problems that are happening with it. All companies go through problems, of course... but there are signs here folks. It goes to the natural "fight or flight" method ... the trick in this is knowing when it is worthwhile to "fight", or to be smart, count your losses and resort to "flight" Some have already been able to swallow their pride and flee, while others are hanging on trying to fight... I truly hope that no one's business crashes and burns to nothing ... be smart and start up a plan B Just in case ... this is all too scarey and in todays economy, you really do need something.
If the California AG's lawsuit has no merit, why was it not dismissed? Why is this happening? Why all the changes to the "unchanging Bill of Rights"? Why all the sales of properties? Why sell so much stock? Why bring in a Mini Mall on the website? Why all the retroactive changes?
It is truly baffeling, I wish all the best I truly hope no one loses their entire business over this. Wake Up!
This is funny...now this is a YTBer in rare form. Posting multiple posts by the same person.
ReplyDeleteAnndd...did your LEADERS tell you YTBers that they were in talks with Cali AG 18 MONTHS before the suit.
I got one better. All the QUESTIONS you ask of John, why don't you do the research?? Duh!! All of the stuff John mentioned is fact. You guys are just to brainwashed to see anything even if it slapped you.
I find it disturbing that you guys will go to a whole new low from the last blog post. We are all adult, When will you guys grow up?
John is simply the messenger. READ THE MESSAGE!!
How come you didn't talk about the class action suits being forced to consolidate John?
ReplyDeleteProblem is John’s message isn’t accurate.
ReplyDeleteWe all knew about California two years ago when they passed legislation to take our credentials away. A case YTB was able to work out during “discussions” with CA. But the word “discussion” suddenly turns into “investigation” and you have run with that myth ever since attempting to make it look like YTB was hiding something. Yet, everyone knows not only what we worked out, with minimum booking requirements in California, but YTB went as far as making that company wide a year later, long before California came out with it’s suit.
We were also introduced to the new booking platform over a year ago at Funshine. Just before RCL, and LONG before the California AG. I found that Hickory Travel Services was not an attempt to buy them, but simply an inquiry to use their technology. When that fell through, Convergentware came into the picture. Even if that’s not the case, still long before California came into the picture. But the spin here is that we’re being “reactive”, scrambling to make things right to please the AG.
John posts yesterday about selling off “the lions share” of land we own but doesn’t take the time to check the 2007 Annual Report which he DID read and report on.
Documented there that YTB owns 56.25 acres of land, most of which was paid for with working capital, and the $2.5 million loan for the new Home Office that was paid off before Meridian tanked was pre-arranged at the time of the loan, long before the FDIC came into the picture. But again, YTB is scrambling and being reactive with it’s “fire sale” because the hope is bankruptcy is not too far off.
Heard that word for YEARS, and yet we purchase land with working capital.
This “wish list” has been spun to death here by a group that has no idea how to verify, link or document a thing.
Just go with what “sounds good” in order add fear about the pyramid crumpling.
Where’s Moron with his HOOTIN? We need one right now.
Wow, so many comments so fast....sorry, had a knee doc appt. But here let me respond to the plethora of anons.
ReplyDelete1. Yes. In my opinion not enough suppliers have tossed MLM to the curb. But Royal Caribbean, Celebrity, and Azamara are three. Perillo is 4. And there were two others. PLUS, let's not forget about the news coming out shortly about another major one. Maybe the suppliers are coming out in 2009?
2. The $6M or $8M. Well, I cannot prove that, but by the press reports and television spots by Beryl-Martin featuring Scott and Kim stating that the cost (not including shipping) was $6M (or $8M depending on the source), it stands to reason one of two things--the cost was a lie or there was $6M or $8M sent from the YTB coffers to the Beryl-Martin coffers. And since Beryl-Martin is wholly owned by Coach, Scott and Kim--the money was filtered--call it laundered if you will.
3. On the AG suit. The AG wants YTB to comply. They talk. For 18 months. Now, if YTB complied, the AG would not have filed suit. They did file suit, so it appears that YTB did not want to listen to what the AG had to say and decided they were above the law in California. The courts will decide.
4. Stock pumping---look at the trading. Look who is selling? Nuff said?
5. Bonus Reset Program. OK this was designed to reinvigorate the reps. No longer did you need to recover lost RTAs, but just needed to acquire 6 to make the bonus. How come the number of weekly bonus recipients has been dwindling since the program was announced? Sure some have made some binuses, but when YTB was handing out 300 bonuses in a week less than a year ago and now is hard pressed to hand out 50, that tells me something is not working. Hey, how did the bonus reset program work for you?
6. YTB does not have tens of thousands of employees. They have under 300 and they laid off 17. All this for a company that had advertised itself as "recessionproof". But, downsizing is a legitimate and probably the right thing to do for YTB. However, the downsizing, coupled with the other items all are cause to raise red flags.
7. 4 Other AG's. Hey you said the economy is tough. Why would one AG duplicate the efforts of another? Especially when there is a piggyback law in place allowing them to enjoin. And do you really think that any governmental agency will give you a heads up about the suit? California didn't. It is doubtful the others will and if the FTC or the SEC becomes involved you will not know what hit you.
8. Inc. Magazine. Thanks for quoting the MISFACTS ABOUT YTB website. For the last time, it is a paid advertisement. It is NOT a column. The person who wrote it has many facts WRONG, and apparently does not know the industry. Many cars will advertise that they are the most luxurious car on the market. It is an ad. Please show me where Inc. Magazine (not their advertisers) gave the shout out to YTB?
9. I don't have an issue with how most TTAs do their business. Yes, there are a few bad apples. I do have a propblem with how YTB and their Reps and RTAs conduct business. The blog is called MLMs and Travel: A Bad Mix. Why don't you start a blog highlighting all the bad TTAs and we will call it even.
10. Canadian law. Yes. Ask HQ about TICO. Ask why the fast and sudden acquisition of Sunrise. YTB went in and made all these announcements without realizing that Canadian law (Toronto) required a PHYSICAL agency in order to have any independent affiliates. YTB decided to either ignore (or not investigate) and was almost shut down. Call HQ and ask them. Or better yet, send a letter to TICO--they will not respond to telephone inquiries.
11. Consolidating Class Action suits. The consolidation has no bearing on the suits. All it did was bring them together under one judge in one court. They are two separate actions. The merits of both are similar and rather than waste resources with two courts and two judges, it makes sense to have one look at it. Why don;t you ask HQ why they were not dismissed at the hearing on December 8th? They were going to move to have them dismissed and the judge ruled that the cases had merit. Now does the consolidation look too good? If YTB loses one, there is a GREAT chance they will lose the other if being heard by the same judge.
What's with this 'we' stuff concerning YTB? All RTAs are independent contractors owning independent businesses that pay a fee to use YTBs technology. RTAs/Reps have no say in policy making at HQ. YTb does not pay them a salary.
ReplyDeleteWhen you start getting a W-2 instead of a 1099 you can be 'we'. You make it sound like they own you, and maybe, in your mind, they do.
Without going back thru numerous blog entries, most of this has been documented before.
ps. An anon YTB has no more credibility than any anon posters. I wish John would turn that option off again.
Travel Pro,
ReplyDeleteDiscussions or investigations. The AG filed a lawsuit against YTB for being a pyramid.
The booking system could take a year or more to implement. So what?
The loan wasn't paid off, it was redone to lending standards that are FDIC compliant. It wasn't "long before" the FDIC stepped in mr. spinmiester.
I don't think YTB is going CH7 or 11 in the near future, they sold off enough assets to last at least another 6 months.
I find it amazing that John doesn't accept the separation of YTBs 2 business because they are both owned by YTB international but has no problem separating ROyal Caribbean, Celebrity and Azamara as 3 separate vendors. To me, that is simply intellectual dishonesty...AGAIN
ReplyDeleteThis was on one of your own YTB sites claiming the statue cost upwards of $8 million.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.teamubiquity.com/cpstatueinfo.htm
http://www.izzitgreen.com/buzz/item/large-life-statue-liberty-made-out-styrofoam
I find it amazing that YTB is only two separate companies when it needs to be. Defense of the AG or Class Action suits--two companies. Reporting to Travel Weekly--one company. Critics--two companies. Friends--one company. Can you make money with the travel side? The figures suggest not, so you need to marry it with the recruiting side.
ReplyDeleteCompensation--one company. Well until you were caught. Reps earned travel override commissions.
So don't give me the separate company crap.
And here is another story documenting the Statue/Beryl Marting/YTB link:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/business/stories.nsf/yourmoney/story/D198EBC73001348B862574B50006C1DF?OpenDocument
See exactly. Research. IF some of you YTBers get your head out of the clouds, you might actually learn something.
ReplyDeleteAlso do a search YOURSELF. And you will be UNpleasantly surprised whose name is listed as President of Beryl Martin.
You guys can do it! Get off your hoohaw and go do the research. It's all documented. Someone call HQ and ask them about TICO and YTB relations in Canada.
check http://checkacode.com and call IATAN for those who still believe they have an IATA number.
I also agree with John, you guys only spout 1 or 2 companies when it's fitting. Today it's 2 companies.
"This “wish list” has been spun to death here by a group that has no idea how to verify, link or document a thing."
Funny they don't read either. It has been documented to DEATH. Hey you know how to use the internet. RESEARCH IT.
IT'S SIMPLE YTB PEOPLE!!
RESEARCH IT
RESEARCH IT
RESERACH IT
RESEARCH IT
RESEARCH IT
I hope that's clear...but just in case...RESEARCH IT! RESEARCH IT!!
Use your own minds and look it up!! And start asking questions! This is YOUR business, YOUR life, YOU who may be affected soon, (if not already), YOU who will lose money...you OWE IT TO YOURSELF to check it out. No matter how much you HATE it. Do they (Tomers/upline) have that much of a hold on you??
Also do a search YOURSELF. And you will be UNpleasantly surprised whose name is listed as President of Beryl Martin.
ReplyDeleteDUH, it's
Frank Brummett
http://tinyurl.com/57ws3k
So What?
NMH--please stick to the topic at hand. No personal attacks.
ReplyDeleteI'm not YTB... I'm an ambulance Chaser waiting on one of you HOOTS to need some Representation.
ReplyDeleteHOOT! HOOT!
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI find it amazing that John doesn't accept the separation of YTBs 2 business because they are both owned by YTB international but has no problem separating Royal Caribbean, Celebrity and Azamara as 3 separate vendors. To me, that is simply intellectual dishonesty...AGAIN
Maybe because when looking at the 3 individual companies, Celebrity's financial success isn't based on how many cruises RCCL sells, and RCCL's financial success isn't based on recruiting Azamara res reps, etc.
Yes, the parent company is affected by all 3 companies, but the 3 individual companies don't affect each other's balance sheets.
The REP and RTA sides of YTB are intertwined and not wholly separate.
"recruiting Azamara res reps"
ReplyDeleteI never seen anybody STUDDER on a BLOG before...
I dont care who you are... THAT's FUNNY!
Tom,
ReplyDeleteWise up.
John - I wouldn't have resorted to a personal attack until I was called a moron. To be called a moron by a brainwashed moron requires defending myself. I refuse to let TravelPro Doug insult me when he's a scammer.
ReplyDeleteAnd Rod, where is my travel quote?
When this YTB thing blows up I think a lot of the RTAs will have an excellent opportunity to make money teaching people how to reframe the b.s. in their lives into something positive. I've never seen so many people be able to take so many issues, turn them around and defend them, and pretend like it's a good thing. It's an amazing talent.
ReplyDeleteBut Kate, that is what MLM is all about. It's always been that way from day one with the Watkins, Electrolux, Kirby, and every other MLM out there. But back then, at least they had legit products that people would buy. Things have changed and now it's mostly scams. The thing that hasn't changed is the B.S. Do you remember when Lucy Ricardo was trying to sell vacuums? That was in the 50's. Did she succeed? There you go!
ReplyDeleteRegarding who owns Beryl Martin:
ReplyDeletehttp://sec.edgar-online.com/ytb-international-inc/sb-2-securities-registration-small-business/2007/05/21/Section25.aspx
Ccmp Inc
(Beryl Martin)
1313 E Main St, Griffith, IN 46319-2932
Contact Phone: (219) 922-8935
URL (web address): padlock icon Activate Links www.ccmp.com
Business Category: Color Print Shop in Griffith, IN
Industry (SIC): Commercial Printing, NEC
Business Information
This company profile is for the private company Ccmp Inc, located in Griffith, IN. Beryl Martin's line of business is color print shop.
Company Name: Ccmp Inc
Is This Your Company?
Address: 1313 E Main St, Griffith, IN 46319-2932 (Map)
Alt Business Name: Beryl Martin
Location Type: Single Location
Est. Annual Sales: padlock icon View Details
Est. # of Employees: 47
Est. Empl. at Loc.: 47
Year Started: 2003
State of Incorp:
SIC #Code: padlock icon View Details
Contact's Name: J Kim Sorenson
Contact's Title: President & Chief Executive Officer
NAICS: Other Commercial Printing
Data above provided by D&B.
http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_h94hsx
Kate-Unless the federal govt. steps in and regulates the MLM industry there will always be the next greatest scheme. Maybe the Obama administration will inact stricter rules and regulations for them. We can only hope.
ReplyDeleteThe only true way for them to stop these MLM scams is to start throwing these people iun jail. Sorenson, Tomers, Saunders that kind of ilk, then work their way down on the rest of their right hand men and women.
ReplyDelete"DUH, it's
ReplyDeleteFrank Brummett
http://tinyurl.com/57ws3k
So What?"
THIS bears repeating:
Contact's Name: J Kim Sorenson
Contact's Title: President & Chief Executive Officer
http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_h94hsx
http://sec.edgar-online.com/ytb-international-inc/sb-2-securities-registration-small-business/2007/05/21/Section25.aspx
So you got your info wrong. NOW what? lol
LoL
ReplyDeleteThe truth hurts Santa...LoL
None of the YTB founders stated that the statue cost $6-8 million. Let's see the text quote or the video to prove me wrong. Another myth perpetuated by John Frenaye.
ReplyDeleteI agree that it is laughable how he took RCCL and separated them in order to add to his "huge" vendor list.
"Why all the changes to the "unchanging Bill of Rights"?"
Another myth by John Frenaye (and others). The only compensation change was not paying the travel overrides to the Power Team Leader. That was NEVER part of the Bill of Rights. And the extra 10% went to the RTA, not pocketed by the company. JF should applaud that move. Both the Bill of Rights and the First Amendment as both entirely in tact.
But it fits the John Frenaye spin. I will take your word that you were at the Doctor's office. I was thinking that you were over posting on the multiple blogs, message boards and newpaper comments that you frequent every day spreading your spin about YTB. This has become quite an obsession for you. You have become a part-time travel agent and full-time anti-YTB fanatic.
"But Kate, that is what MLM is all about. It's always been that way from day one with the Watkins, Electrolux, Kirby, and every other MLM out there."
ReplyDeleteForgot a few there, n MORON h.
Mary Kay
Herbalife
Primerica
Prepaid Legal
Amway
Shaklee
Avon
Keller-Williams
Tupperware
All have bcome giants in the industry. In spite of n MORON h's who refuse to accept the business model.
RESEARCH IT
ReplyDeleteRESEARCH IT
RESERACH IT
RESEARCH IT
RESEARCH IT
Quite the detective work there, pal. It is widely known that Kim Sorensen has an interest in Beryl Martin. No secret. Has for years. That does not mean that YTB spent millions for the Statue of Liberty. Let's see the documentation regarding that expenditure. Hint: It doesn't exist.
The expenditure is buried in either "marketing expenses" or "other costs". I am sure the documentation does not exist. That would likely be a major felony!
ReplyDeleteBut I have to ask why Frank Brummel (an employees of Kim, Coach and Scott who own the company) lied to the television reporter, then lied to the newspaper reporters? And again, why are YTB's Reps and RTAs perpetuating this same lie? Answer THAT Doctor Seligman.
Frank never said that the cost to YTB was $6 Million. Where's your quote? If he "lied to the television reporter, then lied to the newspaper reporters . . .", let's see the quote. Buried in "marketing expenses or other costs"? Nice try.
ReplyDeleteDENIAL,DEFLECTION, DIVERT, A BUNCH OF D'S...I would go on about what kind of D's these YTBers are...but then they'd take it to heart. Sucks to be them.
ReplyDelete"DENIAL,DEFLECTION, DIVERT, A BUNCH OF D'S"???
ReplyDeleteNo, MR/MS Traditional Travel Agent. Just want the proof. Lot's of big talk from your side of the aisle regarding YTB. $6 Million expenditure? PROVE IT. Changing the Bill of Rights? PROVE IT.
Lot's of self-serving spin from the traditional agents. PROVE IT. Or else we will witness the "real" DENIAL,DEFLECTION, DIVERT . . .
"Kate-Unless the federal govt. steps in and regulates the MLM industry there will always be the next greatest scheme. Maybe the Obama administration will inact stricter rules and regulations for them. We can only hope."
ReplyDeleteOh yes! Change! Obama will be the Saviour of the travel industry and oust those YTB kind! And YTBr's are called kool-aid drinkers.
"No Moron Here said...
ReplyDeleteJohn - I wouldn't have resorted to a personal attack until I was called a moron. "
Wouldn't that be labeled as "reactive"?
http://sec.edgar-online.com/ytb-international-inc/sb-2-securities-registration-small-business/2007/05/21/Section25.aspx
ReplyDeleteSo you got your info wrong. NOW what?
-----------------------------------------
That INFO IS OVER 1.5 YEARs OLD.
You need to keep up to date.
Kim is am OWNER, but your request was for who the PRESIDENT is... no WAS, but IS.
Frank Brummett is the CURRENT PRESIDENT.
Another myth from the World According to the Anti-YTB Zealot John Frenaye . . .
ReplyDeleteJohn Frenaye yesterday: "In the last month, they have sold off the lion's share of their headquarters land".
Really?
According to YTB filings, the company owned 56.25 acres. The St. Louis Biz Journal reported the following on December 1 . . . "YTB also said it plans to sell 10 acres of land near its headquarters in Madison County, Ill., to WR Landing LLC for $1 million".
10 acres out of 56.25 acres?
Only the "lions share" in the mind of someone with an agenda like John Frenaye. But it fits his anti-YTB template and lapped up by those who don't bother checking the FACTS.
firemedic said...
ReplyDelete"No Moron Here said...
John - I wouldn't have resorted to a personal attack until I was called a moron. "
Wouldn't that be labeled as "reactive"?
Possibly. Just like I am able to call you a hypocrite without a single doubt or any feelings of guilt. Why? Because you badmouth other MLMs and when TraVerus started selling all of their junk, you whined your guts out. Now that YTB is selling nuts, meat, candy, cookies, and just about everything except sanitary napkins, you're silent on the subject. I like the silence part but I wish it extended to everything.
firemedic,
ReplyDeleteDon't let little people like n MORON h get to you. His middle name fits him well.
"Anonymous said...
ReplyDeletefiremedic,
Don't let little people like n MORON h get to you. His middle name fits him well."
Well John, fair is fair....you going to delete this comment like you did NMH's???
"you're silent on the subject. I like the silence part but I wish it extended to everything."
ReplyDeleteSilent on the subject John? I believe I admittedly ate crow on that one. And the feeling is mutual on the keeping silent on everything. But what other purpose in life would you have?
From the YTB earnings statement.
ReplyDelete"Certain members of management of the Company own a company that YTB Marketing utilizes for printing of its sales materials and various other marketing initiatives. During the three and six months ended June 30, 2008 and 2007, the Company expended $701,788 and $1,737,791, respectively, and $529,186 and $1,013,533, respectively, in payments to this printing company. In addition, at June 30, 2008 and December 31, 2007, respectively, the Company has a pre-paid asset of $491,821 and $157,289, reflected on the balance sheet for payments related to work not yet completed by this company."
If you would still like to argue that Kim doesn't own Beril Martin please feel free.
If you read YTB's sec filing, you can find, in YTB's own words, that every business that YTB does business with is owned, at least in part, by a YTB board member. The land the office is on, the company that was the previous owner of the jet, the company that does all their printing, all owned by at least one board member.
Check it out for yourself!
"Also do a search YOURSELF. And you will be UNpleasantly surprised whose name is listed as President of Beryl Martin."
ReplyDelete"If you would still like to argue that Kim doesn't own Beril Martin please feel free."
Are you asking for the OWNER or the PRESIDENT?
Frank Brummett is the President of Beryl Martin.
Kim is a member of the ownership group.
Frank B. got a promotion during the building of the Statue. You have to refresh your resources.
Keep the DATA Fresh. Nobody wants 6 month old Bread.
"If you read YTB's sec filing, you can find, in YTB's own words, that every business that YTB does business with is owned, at least in part, by a YTB board member. The land the office is on, the company that was the previous owner of the jet, the company that does all their printing, all owned by at least one board member.
ReplyDeleteCheck it out for yourself!"
In regards to Beryl Martin, we certainly have Inspector Clouseau on the job!
It is OLD news that Kim Sorensen is an owner of Beryl Martin. Most of YTB's print materials are produced or shipped from their location in Indiana.
YTB has always sold their print materials at a low cost. Where some MLM companies make it a highly profitable venture, YTB sells their literature, DVDs and other marketing materials at a reasonable cost.
At low cost?? According to the 2007 report, they sold the marketing materials to the RTAs and Reps for $14.1 million Dollars and incurred a cost of only $6.2 million. Where do you shop where you consider a 127% mark up "reasonable"
ReplyDeleteFrom the Post Dispatch:
ReplyDelete"YTB has a long history of doing business with its own leadership."
Read more here:
http://ivr.tmcnet.com/news/2008/08/31/3626566.htm
Oh come on, lets at least pretend to use a little common sense. Sorenson is building the statue at his company. Suddenly in the middle of that fiasco, he appoints someone else to talk to the press....
ReplyDeleteGee could it be that he didn't want people to know he owned Beryl Martin?
Here is the news article from the North West Indiana:
http://www.thetimesonline.com/articles/2008/05/15/news/top_news/doc9e79ecff04443e9d8625744900808796.txt
They have all the exact demensions of the statue from her nose, to her eyes, weight, how many trucks she will take to transport.... And go figure the cost
Total cost of the work is $8 million, excluding transportation costs.
Of course that is probably subject to Sorenson's whims since he owns Beryl Martin...
Where is your evidence that the statue cost something else?
(Oh and just for refence, ALL of the stock of YTB is worth 20 million - statue 8 million)
At low cost?? According to the 2007 report, they sold the marketing materials to the RTAs and Reps for $14.1 million Dollars and incurred a cost of only $6.2 million. Where do you shop where you consider a 127% mark up "reasonable"
ReplyDeleteWal-Mart of Course
"Where is your evidence that the statue cost something else?"
ReplyDeleteI still have not seen a direct quote from anyone at Beryl Martin or from the YTB founders. Just because a writer of a small paper makes mention in an article does not prove the fact. There were a lot of numbers thrown around. Common sense would prove that there is no way that it could cost that much.
In addition, the cost would have to show in the quarterly report and there was nothing showing that type of cost. If you can find it, show me the proof.
JF -
Yes, the cost of marketing materials from YTB is VERY low. For instance, a majority of MLMs charge up to $5 for a DVD. Many between $3-$5. YTB is charging $1 for each of the current DVDs. And, yes, that is very reasonable.
Anonymous said..."YTB is charging $1 for each of the current DVDs. And, yes, that is very reasonable."
ReplyDeleteNo, it's not reasonable when it's worthless.
Common sense would prove that there is no way that it could cost that much...
ReplyDeleteWell for most of the non-ytbers who see Coach buying the plane from an insider then turning around and selling it months later for a huge loss, then buying the office from an insider and then turing around months later and selling it for a huge loss....
well we are not so supprised that YTB would pay above market rates for stuff from the insiders.
Really though can anyone say with a straight face that it was not a colossal waste - and your right - even if we did know the estimated cost was 8 million while they were building it - since Sorenson was the owner we wouldn't know for sure how much was actually paid. Maybe after all of the bad press, they only paid 6 million.....
Which YTBer thought it was clever to create a catastrophe of a statue??
ReplyDeleteGuys seriouly, there's no reasoning with those type of people. They exhibit serious cultish behavior, brainwashed like you wouldn't believe, can't reason for anything, can't think for themselves, hootin and hollarin any chance they get, stalking John and his blog, constantly having to defend (without any real substance) daily, weekly, monthly, yearly for the past few years...from the outside looking in, who wants to live like that?
They can't handle anything that goes against what God Tomer says or oustide the YTB bubble so they resort to attacks and their own or their upline's conclusions, completely missing that info on their own sites, which most of the victims don't read anyway, so why bother with any dialogue with any of the cult members. Don't we understand that unless they are quarantined or something drastic they can't be saved? (they think that God Coach saved them).
They constantly live vicariously through their Dirctors b/c the don't have any real success.
And I don't understand. If they want people to shut up they need to learn professional dialogue which we all already know they are incapable of doing. They just can't stay away from John though, yet can't come correct with what John blogs about.
Really I wish John could turn off any responses from any YTBer b/c most of their omments are really Tomer mini me's. They haven't a clue.
Watch this. Ask a direct question and see what answer you get:
Why on the facts about YTB site, do you think your Lord Tomer changed his quote on the purpose of the site? It at first said "The purpose of this site is to recruit you into the business" to whatever it says now. (wait for it...)
Firemedic should know about the word 'reactive'.
Seriously I wish we could put them on ignore. B/c they are a fun group of unprofessionals, and wonder why their are suits brought against them.
firemedic said...
ReplyDelete"you're silent on the subject. I like the silence part but I wish it extended to everything."
Silent on the subject John? I believe I admittedly ate crow on that one.
Oh, yes, FireMedic, you ate crow. In one paragraph, after your long diatribe regarding Traverus. You had a big helping of crow, didn't you. You sure can dish it out, but when it comes to eating it yourself, you take the smallest portion. Get real.
Watch the video. Frank Burmett says the cost. So what is it. Again, YTB wants it both ways...looks like they are spending the bucks for a "donation" and maybe to "justify" price to RTAs? Who knows. But when caught, they reduce it. As the price showing up somewhere, it could be anywhere and in multiple places--marketing costs, Administrative Other costs, etc. Remember your admin costs are thru the roof.
ReplyDeleteYes, common sense dictates it does can't cost that much. But that did not stop the RTAs and Reps from perpetuating that myth that Coach was donating this $6M statue to fallen soldiers. But then mid stream, it became B-M's donation. Hmm wonder why? Maybe the terms were changed from a purchase to a lease because of the inquiries?
But look at any YTB major purchase. They bought a jet for $1.3M and it was valued (by other sources) at $1M at at the time. Now it is valued at $900K. Wow, all in 9 months! BUt hey it was bought from an insider.
THe statue was created to shift money to Beryl-Martin. THAT is what common sense dictates.
And speaking of the statue, there is more news on it, aside from the recipient city not knowing what to do with it, but I cannot read it(subscription). Something about the coating....wonder if it is toxic?
As to the officers of Beryl Martin. Dunn and Bradstreet reported that Sorensen was CEO and President. A prestigious company like D&B is wrong too?
ReplyDeleteYou people wouldn't know the truth if it hit you square in the face. Come to think of it the facts do. LOL! But, you still deny it because a.) Can't handle the truth and b.) You don't want to. You people are in denial because your entire identity is wrapped up in YTB. Without YTB you have nothing. Get some help.
From the Associated Press:
ReplyDelete"SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) -- Todd Davis (President and owner) has dared criminals for two years to try stealing his identity: Ads for his fraud-prevention company, LifeLock, even offer his Social Security number next to his smiling mug.
Now, Lifelock customers in Maryland, New Jersey and West Virginia are suing Davis, claiming his service didn't work as promised and he knew it wouldn't, because the service had failed even him.
Attorney David Paris said he found records of other people applying for or receiving driver's licenses at least 20 times using Davis' Social Security number, though some of the applications may have been rejected because data in them didn't match what the Social Security Administration had on file.
Davis acknowledged in an interview with The Associated Press that his stunt has led to at least 87 instances in which people have tried to steal his identity, and one succeeded: a guy in Texas who duped an online payday loan operation last year into giving him $500 using Davis' Social Security number.
Paris said the fact Davis' records were compromised at all supports the claim that Tempe, Ariz.-based LifeLock doesn't provide the comprehensive protection its advertisements say it does.
"It's further evidence of the ineffectiveness of the services that LifeLock advertises," said Paris, who is lead attorney on the three new lawsuits, the latest of which was filed this month.
Davis learned about the fraud in Texas when the payday-loan outfit called to collect on the loan, he said. He didn't get an alert beforehand because the company didn't go through one of the three major credit bureaus before approving the transaction.
Davis said it's possible driver's licenses have been issued to other people in his name because of the widespread availability of his personal information - and because of what he described as the flimsy mechanisms in place to report that kind of fraud.
Paris noted that LifeLock charges $10 a month to set fraud alerts with credit bureaus, even though consumers can do it themselves for free.
But Davis stands by his company and his advertising gimmick, which has appeared in newspapers and on billboards, radio and MTV. He even broadcasts it by bullhorn on walking tours through crowded downtowns.
"There's nothing on my actual credit report about uncollected funds, no outstanding tickets or warrants or anything," he said. "There's nothing to indicate my identity has been successfully compromised other than the one instance. I know I'm taking a slightly higher risk. But I'll take my risk for the tremendous benefit we're bringing to society and to consumers."
The lawsuits, for which Paris is seeking class-action status, highlight the fundamental limits on how much security identity-theft companies can provide.
Companies like LifeLock can help guard against only certain types of financial fraud by helping consumers set up alerts with credit bureaus, which inform them when someone tries to open a new line of credit or boost their credit limit to finance a buying binge, for example.
The services don't guard against many types of identity theft such as use of a stolen Social Security number on a job application or for medical services, or even the instance of an arrestee giving police a stolen Social Security number to shield his own identity.
LifeLock is also being sued in Arizona over its $1 million service guarantee, which the plaintiffs claim is misleading because it only covers a defect in LifeLock's service, and in California by the Experian credit bureau. Experian accuses LifeLock of deceiving consumers about the breadth of its protection and abusing the system for attaching fraud alerts to credit reports.
Security experts say complaints about the company reinforce the time-honored wisdom of keeping your Social Security number secret.
"There's been a lot of marketing, a lot of hype about LifeLock," said Paul Stephens, director of policy and advocacy with the Privacy Rights Clearinghouse, a nonprofit consumer advocacy organization. "The question is, 'How much protection does it really buy you?'"
"There is no company that can guarantee they can protect you (completely) against identity theft," Stephens said. "Absolutely nobody can do that."
ROTFLMAO!
Hey, YTB now has Identity Theft Protection to be sold along with vacations and other "extras". Coach said he could protect people, apparently this guy is not as good as Coach!
ReplyDeleteYou listed some cities there and ripoffs, John. What's the deal in those cities???
ReplyDelete