Now the FTC and the California Attorney General both don't like this type of number. They much prefer to see numbers that reflect more product being sold to consumers. Too much recruiting is never a good thing for a pyramid scheme. Never.
So, what is the obvious solution? Sell more product! But, that can be problematic when your product has a very low yield to begin with; and it becomes even more of a problem when you realize that your sales force is inept.
So, to get the critical ratios up to an acceptable level, the only solution is to branch out and sell more stuff. Preferably products where you do not rely on your sales force and the consumer can handle it on their own.
So enter the following:
- Meats
- Seafood
- Produce
- Baked Goods
- Coffees and Teas
- Quick Meals
- Dining Out
- Flowers
- Rugs
- Pictures
- Furniture
- Kitchen Gadgets
- Garden Items
- Blinds
- Credit Monitoring
- Checks
- Receipt Scanning and Safekeeping
- ID Theft Protection
- Sunglasses
- Organic Products
- Handbags
- Jewelry
- Cars
Where is the partnership with Prepaid Legal? They need it!
ReplyDeleteNow that's a HOOT!
ReplyDeleteThat's what that is... a real HOOT!
PrePaid Legal...
I'll giva ya 2 HOOTS for that Comment.
HOOT! HOOT!
Oh. My. God.
ReplyDeleteIs the lady from GRITS travel running the show now?
Well I guess all that talk from Kim about trying to "legitimize" YTB is out the freaking window now. Do you really think anyone is going to look at their site and think "gee, I sure could use a 7 day cruise, a half pound of salmon, and a box of playtex tampons. Thank goodness for YTB!" ?Please! They're not a travel agency. They're a freaking Sams Club! What a joke!
John I don't even think they're worth blogging about anymore.
The only good part about this is, that at least the RTAs are probably qualified to sell garden tools and hamburger. Yippee!
Now that's a HOOT!
ReplyDeleteThat's what that is... a real HOOT!
Hey Coach! Can you please tell me which aisle the pickles are in?
ReplyDeleteMaybe it is a resume building move. Now along with being a travel agent they now say that they are also:
ReplyDeletebutchers
fishermen
grocers
bakers
baristas
chefs
maitr'e ds
florists
rug weavers
woodsmiths
photographers
framers
gardeners
credit specialists
bankers
document storage specialists
loss prevention officers
optometrists
purse makers
jewelers
auto salesmen
Sounds alot like Amway to me. Sell anything and everything.
ReplyDeleteJust some extras, folks. TRAVEL is going to increase in a big way with our new booking platform and a much-improved First Class Training. Even though the RTA numbers and recruiting numbers are down (by the way, like ALL DSA companies)our travel sales are UP. Something that a majority of travel agencies CANNOT boast about.
ReplyDeleteThe extras are located . . . as extras. It will always be YTB TRAVEL. And the travel numbers will be up substantially this year and much more next year. John calls it "reactionary". Nope. This has been talked about for over a year. We were just waiting for our own platform . . . which, contrary to the anti-YTB blogger's info, has been part of the plan for 14 months.
Kind of like John Frenaye's blog. His primary purpose is to be a forum to bring all of the anti-YTB zealots together and give him a base to call his home from the scores of locations he shows up at on a daily basis posting about the obsession of his life. And even though YTB is the "love of his life", I see his blog is promoting Capital One, Intuit and PayPal with Zappos, EToys and Smart Bargains.
Good business decision, John. While the likes of the K. Holmes or the wonderful TravelLisa are on the couch for the day complaining about YTB, they can buy some toys on E Toys or maybe just buy that Cabin Cuddler they have always been looking for.
Nice to see I'm wonderful..lol. But far from the couch I'm afraid. See I actually work all day selling travel. Something many of you YTBers cannot say. I only sell travel, I do not see the need in selling misc crap on a website that has nothing to do with travel. Why on earth you would sell these "extras" instead of actual travel related products is beyond me.
ReplyDeleteFor all the YTB boasting how they are selling more travel one must wonder why the numbers do not support that claim. Product sales income has never come close to recruiting income. Never. If Doug, Denyse or any of the Anons can post a document that prooves otherwise I will buy you a bouquet from 1800flowers (better prices than YTB and I get points and a discount using my Amex card.) Hope to hear from you soon!
ReplyDeleteHow does changing a booking engine generate more business? Business is generated by marketing. Getting out and telling people about your business. YTB says the best way to do it is face to face to friends and family and anyone in three feet of you. They don't advertise (well, SEP and Inc. excepted), and the publicity surrounding the legal issues is certainly not good.
ReplyDeleteSo with a precipitous drop in RTAs and Reps, just how does the marketing increase? It can't. Now I am not saying that Coach did not suggest you all buy cruise certificates for your families--he did. And self sold travel really ought to not be counted.
And there is a difference between advertising on a website and actually selling the products.
I looked at the products they are hawking on their website and I have never heard of any of them. Not only are they hawking a bunch of products but no name brands as well.
ReplyDeleteWhat?!!! No Omaha Steaks?
ReplyDeleteNo, but we have Wood River Spam and Mississipi Mud Slinging Pie!
ReplyDelete"John calls it "reactionary". Nope. This has been talked about for over a year. We were just waiting for our own platform . . . which, contrary to the anti-YTB blogger's info, has been part of the plan for 14 months."
ReplyDeleteYep reactionary....AG meetings lasted 18 months, and 4 months into it YTB folks said
SCOTT: Shoot, we gotta do something...this doesn't look like it may turn out in our favor later the AG won't go away guys. Any ideas?
SORENSEN: Well we have convention coming up. We could sell and milk our RTAs more, and could make a HUGE statue from our company and filter money in that way..HMMM...heck they all love us, they will buy stuff no problem!! Hyuk hyuk.. Yeah! That way we still get paid...protect ourselves.
COACH: Wouldn't that be laundering money?
SORENSEN: That's funny, no, Coach you're getting old, that's for clothes. I'd prefer the term 'filtering' I'll talk to Frank about this. Next topic.
SCOTT: Hmm well there's a craze about different mall home business going around. We could talk deals with vendors and get actual stuff that our idiots - er - RTAs can sell.
COACH: Get on it! We need to show the AG we are complying, they won't see it coming. Then we will rule the world, I will have another talk with the dumbasses - er - RTAs and make sure the staff has a large fresh batch of koolaid. We have a lot to share. Anything else?
ALL DUMBFOUNDED FOR A SECOND...
SORENSEN: Perhaps we could do something on the travel side...so they won't think anything else.
SCOTT: I got it!! I don't think it's worth the money...but maybe later we could possibly, one day, some time way later down road, if stuff really hits the fan, in the future if we feel like it...just to shut people up, whenever it gets serious, if need be, start talking about our booking engine.
COACH: Yeah that's not important right now. Scratch that. We need product. Have you seen the numbers? We gotta keep those people - I meant the RTAs motivated and happy. Let's make it a one-stop shop.
SORENSEN: OKAY that sounds great. Anything else?
THEY ALL SHRUG.
COACH: Okay! Let's start talking to vendors, get something I don't care who we talk to, but make it look appealing. We need to show something or the AG will stay on our asses.
TRAVEL is going to increase in a big way with our new booking platform and a much-improved First Class Training
ReplyDeleteRight. You can have the best booking engine and the prettiest site ever, but if you don't get traffic to it might as well not have it. Also your personal info is still not on your sites, so youre still not offering your clients true customer service.
All the booking engine will provide you is not so cheaper prices. A TRUE travel agent won't just direct a client to their site b/c the booking engine is better. The clients don't care about that.
And again, why is your First Class training extra? Besides the holiday the cost to join is still $500. Your training should be free. I have seen many host agencies that have free training, and though TTAs don't like travel MLMs, other travel MLMs trainings are also free (I researched). You guys are getting ripped off from every angle possible to make them money.
From the marketing site (which does NOT give anyone an option to go to book travel), to your training, to the Association training, to First Class to magazines, DVDs it would be funny to add up your costs to start up. It well exceeds $700. As a matter of fact from your own site under Coach's Christmas Special (RTA Special (A $748.80 Value) and that doesn't include all of the above.
If you think it's attractive to sell a bunch of crap on your site then so be it. Some smart RTAs don't like it. You are supposed to be a TRAVEL company. Why don't you guys just merge with Amway!!
"Yep reactionary....AG meetings lasted 18 months, and 4 months into it YTB folks said . . ."
ReplyDeleteThe above diatribe qualifies for a Melvin Palmer "HOOT". Stick to reading your Harry Potter books. You are living in a fantasy world.
I thought it was pretty clever. At least more clever than Coach, Scott and Kim running around saying 'Hoot.'
ReplyDeleteCoach, Scott and Kim say 'hoot'
The AG is trying to give us the boot.
We'd better get ready to scoot
and find someway to refute
and hide the loot along the route
or our whole scheme will be moot.
Chorus:
Hoot, hoot hoot.
Hide the loot
Try and scoot
Hoot, hoot, hoot.
Maybe Amway will come in and sweep them and the clients up.
ReplyDeleteAnother travel company waiting to be collapsed like Cruise Value Center when recruiting starts to dry up similar to Madoff's ponzi scheme.
ReplyDeleteLisa's question: "I do not see the need in selling misc crap on a website that has nothing to do with travel. Why on earth you would sell these 'extras' instead of actual travel related products is beyond me."
ReplyDeleteHere's the reason behind it Lisa:
This is a preview of things to come as YTB broadens our horizon to offer things that are outside of our travel site. They are doing this for a number of reasons.
1st and foremost to get some more things to sell--more reasons to bring people into my store and 2nd to provide me with more things that people might buy more frequently than travel.
We all know of course that business travelers may go all the time, but the vacation traveler typically takes one or two trips per year. YTB knows they may not come back to my site as often as I would like, but by providing them with some other categories of things that they may use more frequently and they purchase in between vacations I have got the opportunity to stay fresh in their minds and may have them visiting my site more often. That’s important for everybody. More clicks mean more money. Just ask John.
"The above diatribe qualifies for a Melvin Palmer "HOOT". Stick to reading your Harry Potter books. You are living in a fantasy world."
ReplyDeleteHaha, knew you'd like it. And I love how you prove our point over and over.
No real defense, and when in doubt attack the messenger. Predictable! Tell your Coach he needs to revise the 'D' section of your training manual (D standing for Deflect, Deny etc...section) Tell them too many RTAs are going by the book, and it's getting saturated on the 'net.
He's gotten very good at changing things on a whim, I'm sure one call to legal will have it revised ASAP
By the way, Harry Potter is AWESOME. But you guys have your own fantasy world, so you are probably not allowed to read those books either.
Why would they purchase no name products on a travel website that can be purchased other places online -- again for less? Very doubtful anyone is going to purchase misc crap or find it helpful in anyway. It makes you look even less professional IMO when your hawking it. Sorry it does!
ReplyDeleteI agree with Travel Lisa,
ReplyDeleteEddie we LOVE those lyrics...maybe you can sell it to Coach so he can charge the reps to have a single to promote YTB!
Better yet, add it to their site! Heck maybe they can also get some old stuff from Burnlounge lol
Hey TL -
ReplyDeleteYTB's travel sales will be up significantly in 2008. And I predict that 2009 sales will follow suit. That's all I care about. All of this in spite of whiny traditional travel agents like you who thought the doors would be closed by now. Get ready to see YTB move up the list on Travel Weekly while we watch other companies lose positions like they did in 2007.
By the way, since you mentioned the extras on YTB's site. I just purchase Lifelock on my site. List price is $120 and bought it for $99. Actually going to get a commission back of 70% of $32 . . . $22.40. Not a bad deal. I would not categorize Lifelock as "misc crap" as you have. I was going to purchase it anyway for identity theft protection. I'll gladly take the $22.40.
Funny about Lifelock they actually hacked into the owner who advertises it accounts. LOL! Another great company.
ReplyDeleteFrom the Associated Press:
ReplyDelete"SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) -- Todd Davis (President and owner) has dared criminals for two years to try stealing his identity: Ads for his fraud-prevention company, LifeLock, even offer his Social Security number next to his smiling mug.
Now, Lifelock customers in Maryland, New Jersey and West Virginia are suing Davis, claiming his service didn't work as promised and he knew it wouldn't, because the service had failed even him.
Attorney David Paris said he found records of other people applying for or receiving driver's licenses at least 20 times using Davis' Social Security number, though some of the applications may have been rejected because data in them didn't match what the Social Security Administration had on file.
Davis acknowledged in an interview with The Associated Press that his stunt has led to at least 87 instances in which people have tried to steal his identity, and one succeeded: a guy in Texas who duped an online payday loan operation last year into giving him $500 using Davis' Social Security number.
Paris said the fact Davis' records were compromised at all supports the claim that Tempe, Ariz.-based LifeLock doesn't provide the comprehensive protection its advertisements say it does.
"It's further evidence of the ineffectiveness of the services that LifeLock advertises," said Paris, who is lead attorney on the three new lawsuits, the latest of which was filed this month.
Davis learned about the fraud in Texas when the payday-loan outfit called to collect on the loan, he said. He didn't get an alert beforehand because the company didn't go through one of the three major credit bureaus before approving the transaction.
Davis said it's possible driver's licenses have been issued to other people in his name because of the widespread availability of his personal information - and because of what he described as the flimsy mechanisms in place to report that kind of fraud.
Paris noted that LifeLock charges $10 a month to set fraud alerts with credit bureaus, even though consumers can do it themselves for free.
But Davis stands by his company and his advertising gimmick, which has appeared in newspapers and on billboards, radio and MTV. He even broadcasts it by bullhorn on walking tours through crowded downtowns.
"There's nothing on my actual credit report about uncollected funds, no outstanding tickets or warrants or anything," he said. "There's nothing to indicate my identity has been successfully compromised other than the one instance. I know I'm taking a slightly higher risk. But I'll take my risk for the tremendous benefit we're bringing to society and to consumers."
The lawsuits, for which Paris is seeking class-action status, highlight the fundamental limits on how much security identity-theft companies can provide.
Companies like LifeLock can help guard against only certain types of financial fraud by helping consumers set up alerts with credit bureaus, which inform them when someone tries to open a new line of credit or boost their credit limit to finance a buying binge, for example.
The services don't guard against many types of identity theft such as use of a stolen Social Security number on a job application or for medical services, or even the instance of an arrestee giving police a stolen Social Security number to shield his own identity.
LifeLock is also being sued in Arizona over its $1 million service guarantee, which the plaintiffs claim is misleading because it only covers a defect in LifeLock's service, and in California by the Experian credit bureau. Experian accuses LifeLock of deceiving consumers about the breadth of its protection and abusing the system for attaching fraud alerts to credit reports.
Security experts say complaints about the company reinforce the time-honored wisdom of keeping your Social Security number secret.
"There's been a lot of marketing, a lot of hype about LifeLock," said Paul Stephens, director of policy and advocacy with the Privacy Rights Clearinghouse, a nonprofit consumer advocacy organization. "The question is, 'How much protection does it really buy you?'"
"There is no company that can guarantee they can protect you (completely) against identity theft," Stephens said. "Absolutely nobody can do that."
ROTFLMAO!
I am glad you can purchase something for yourself via your own website. It's available on their website for 99.00 too so without the commission it's no better than elsewhere. So if I want to get the discount I can sign up for 500 and pay 49. a month to save 22.40. Excellent!
ReplyDeleteMaybe Anon can join that class action against Life Lock now.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteHey TL -
YTB's travel sales will be up significantly in 2008.
Hey Anonymous, I have asked it before and I will ask it again and again....until you answer. If your travel sales are up SOOOOO much, then how come your Q3 profit was only $288,000, and your YTD profit is MINUS $3,000,000+? Remember, that minus means less than zero.
OMG!! Did Coach and folk not do THEIR research before they decided on Life Lock? Baahwhaawhahaahaaahaahaa!!
ReplyDeleteThe guy who bought Life Lock...maybe you can use that $22.40 to get a membership with prePaid Legal! Heck if he joins the Class action suit he may come out with more than that!
This stuff with YTB gets funnier every day.
ReplyDeleteLet's first see what the end of the 4th quarter looks like.
You guys have predicted you are set to make a billion dollars ever since what...2005?
So that statement about travel going up, is laughable at best.
Sadly with the thousands of reps you have you should have BEEEN doing OVER a billion dollars in travels sales with ONE FINGER, EYES CLOSED, NO EFFORT. GGEEEEZ.
"So that statement about travel going up, is laughable at best."
ReplyDelete2008 travel sales for YTB Travel Network will be considerably higher than 2007. You can count on it. Just like you can count on John Frenaye spending hours a day obsessing about YTB Travel Network. Whether it is truthful or not, John is always there with an opinion about YTB Travel.
2008 travel sales will be DOWN for many travel companies. Including some companies who host for the whining traditional travel agents who troll on this blog.
"So if I want to get the discount I can sign up for 500 and pay 49. a month to save 22.40. Excellent!"
Actually a great deal for me. I pay a hosting fee of $49.95 each month and get an $50 check sent right back to me. Excellent!
Anon - will YTBs income from travel sales be higher than income for recruiting in 2008?
ReplyDeleteThose are the numbers that count.
Happily, my agency is almost 20% ahead of last year in profit. Not just sales, but profit.As in the black. Not 3 million in the RED.
ReplyDeleteOf course 2008 travel sales will be up. They had basically twice as many people selling travel. BUT they peaked at 138,000 or so RTAs and the numbers have dropped significantly since then. How the heck will 2009 numbers be up if so many people leave?
ReplyDeleteAs to getting the check back- all you have to do is convince 6 friends to stay in the program and you get your $50 back... Of course there are now 6 of your close friends that are probably losing money each month... Then there is all the stuf you have to say to keep them in.... RTAs numbers are dropping by tens of thousands....
The difference between other agencies and YTB is that other agencies only sell travel and still sell BILLIONS more in travel with less in staff then you. Even if they have a dip in numbers this year, it will still be billions more then YTB will ever achieve. They do not need to hawk lifelock, flowers, cars, or other things on their site to do it. Maybe you should go purchase some Pepto, with all the spinning your doing on here, you may need it.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said..."Actually a great deal for me. I pay a hosting fee of $49.95 each month and get an $50 check sent right back to me. Excellent!"
ReplyDeleteCongratulations! You're making a profit of 5 cents per month which is a substantial amount more than the others in YTB.
"Numbers are dropping by tens of thousands . . ."
ReplyDeleteI couldn't take YTB away from a majority of those who purchased their YTB travel websites from me. Since they are pursuing a profit, their tax return comes back with a big smile on it courtesy of their online travel business. $49.95 tax-deductable dollars spent each month . . . a wise investment for people who want to keep more of their hard-earned tax dollars.
"Happily, my agency is almost 20% ahead of last year in profit."
Let's see the numbers, fast Eddie. Since everything YTB does is examined by the proctologist John Frenaye and his minions of anal examiners, let's see your numbers. If you are indeed in the black in travel sales and profits, you are in the minority. Many traditional agencies are HURTING and HURTING BAD.
"Congratulations! You're making a profit of 5 cents per month which is a substantial amount more than the others in YTB."
ReplyDelete(as the posted by the n MORON h himself)
How you wish that was the only money I made. Just part-time have you, but average $650 per month on the travel side and $1700 on the marketing side. And my adjusted gross income is just where I want it come tax-time. Out of pocket expenses are nil. But my home business deductions are great.
Oh look above, another YTBer making false claims. So funny how all these YTBers are making "billions" but the SEC filings are stating complete the opposite. And still nobody will prove it. What a surprise, they all LIE!
ReplyDelete"I couldn't take YTB away from a majority of those who purchased their YTB travel websites from me"
ReplyDeleteInteresting.... over 100,000 RTAs have quit this year, and yet everyone you know is really happy.
How stupid do you have to be to sign up for a program that has helped create over 100,000 failures this year alone....
These idiots paid about 100 million dollars in fees to earn about 16 million dollars in travel comissions - and thats just the first 9 months of this year...
Thats a loss of about 84 million dollars... Or 8.4 million dollars a month......
Why would you sign up for a program that has more failures than any other MLM I have ever heard of? Whos members have lost more money than any other MLM I have ever heard of.
Sorry bad math - A loss of 84 million - which is over 9 million dollars a month the RTAs are losing...
ReplyDeleteAnon is blowing hot air. I read on another site that there are only 100,000 RTAs left as of 4Dec 08. Big big drop. Of course all of Anons downline are happy as clams losing money so he/she can drag in the big bucks.
ReplyDeleteThe good old tax deduction ploy. Maybe you'd better go back and re-read the IRS info for home based businesses.
I'd be happy to give you my numbers. Is TRAMS accounting okay with you? What's your email?
Or would you rather I just post the figures here?
3 HOOTS if ya post em HERE!
ReplyDeleteYes, you are challenged on math. I may even have to call you a n MORON h if you keep this nonsense up.
ReplyDelete"9 million dollars a month the RTAs are losing..." over 100,000 RTAs have quit this year"
Total nonsense. There are still approximately 100,000 active RTAs in YTB. Not bad with the economy like it is.
"These idiots paid about 100 million dollars in fees to earn about 16 million dollars in travel comissions - and thats just the first 9 months of this year..."
No, not idiots like you are proving yourself to be. Only idiots like YOU expect immediate profit from a business. But, guess what, mental giant . . . the tax deductions come immediately - from DAY 1. Check out your local junior college. Maybe they can provide a basic business class for you to attend.
Let's see . . . if I start a home-based business that costs from $250-500 to start and $50 per month and I work at it 4-5 hours a week. Shazzam! I can deduct the expenses that go along with operating that business. I can average, on a monthly basis, approximately $400 per month on tax savings. Don't know what State you live in, Math Major, but where I come from that means $4800 in tax saving my first year.
What a Country!
"Don't know what State you live in, Math Major"
ReplyDeleteHe's in one of two States:
Denial or Confusion.
Gotta be one or the other.
Good One ANON...
ReplyDelete2 HOOTS for you!
HOOT! HOOT!
Eddie said -
ReplyDelete"The good old tax deduction ploy. Maybe you'd better go back and re-read the IRS info for home based businesses."
Maybe you need to read Sandy Botkin's book "LOWER YOUR TAXES BIGTIME" or Ron Mueller's book "IT'S HOW MUCH YOU KEEP THAT COUNTS, NOT HOW MUCH YOU MAKE".
It's all there in black and white.
Those would be the same states that YTB operates in.
ReplyDelete100.000 is not enough to keep Wood River in the splendor they are used to. Hence, the sell offs, the discounts, the 'enhancements' etc.
ReplyDeleteLegal bills are expensive.
You read those books, again Anon. You missed a few chapters.
ReplyDeleteI will quote a well respected REP, the one and only TravelingMom 'Get 'Your Totally Broke' friends to sign up and they will be more broke, but you, not so much.'
Good choice on the LifeLock. Just put them in the pile of dismal partnerships--Two Fly Free, China, and all the incentives.
ReplyDeleteAs for the 2008 sales...in two words, no way. As of 9/30/08 your travel commissions received were $22.1 million. With a 10% margin, sales are likely in the $221M range. It has been a weak 4Q so don't hold your breath.
But that brings us back to the funny numbers again. Last year, YTB says they sold $414M yet shows commissions of 22.1M. So are you saying that you only make 5% commission?
See the smoke is clearing and the mirrors are being exposed!
Everybody in YTB is happy making $10,000 per week, traveling the world for free, and loves all things YTB.
ReplyDeleteCoach,can you tell me what aisle the cat litter is in?
Think I'll meet Melvin and go to HOOTERS.
ReplyDeletehttp://Hooters.com
"eddie said...
ReplyDeleteAnon - will YTBs income from travel sales be higher than income for recruiting in 2008?"
In case any YTBer missed it...that was a DIRECT question. Yes or no would suffice.
That is funny, with the state of the economy 100k RTAs is GOOD?? ROFL
Well how come the travel sales aren't?? B/c they aren't selling any!!
Eventually the IRS will catch up with cheaters like anonymous. Speaking of JR. College which one did you go to? Jr. College for failures?
ReplyDeleteOMG have you seen their new marketing video?? They are basically trying to say TTAs are going away! This is where they send their prospects...and that the internet is replacing the mom and pop stores and that it's not speculation it's already happening. Wow.
ReplyDeleteOMG ROFL on a MARKETING SITE they are saying that the 'big guys' are just JEALOUS??? Are you kidding me????
Speaking of smoke and mirrors, I can think of two words: John Frenaye.
ReplyDeleteAnd, since you are the expert in DENIAL, I trust Travel Weekly any day before you. Travel Weekly is fair and you have an obvious agenda. Travel Weekly validated the $414 million. We don't need a validation from the John Frenaye Spin Machine.
One little clue. We sell airline tickets and receive a $3.50 commission. No surprise. YTB sells a lot of airline tickets. And we don't charge a $30-$50 service fee like you do. So we can't add that wonderful mark-up into our commissions paid.
Look at these clowns....
ReplyDeleteNot sure what tax bracket your in but I would love to see how you got 4800 in tax savings....
At 28% tax bracket you would have to claim over 17,000 to get 4,800 in tax savings....
As for 100,000 people failing in YTB this year....
Actually the number is much much higher. 100,000 is just the number of people that actually quit.... That doesn't include the tens of thousands of failures that are still paying their fees each month.
"eddie said...
ReplyDeleteAnon - will YTBs income from travel sales be higher than income for recruiting in 2008?"
In case any YTBer missed it...that was a DIRECT question. Yes or no would suffice."
The answer will be NO.
Duh.
Income from marketing will continue to exceed income from travel sales as we grow the company with new RTAs and Affiliates. Travel sales will continue to grow percentage-wise each year. We did not hit the 1 billion in travel sales this year, but 1 billion in sales over the past five years is nothing to sneeze at. It will be GREAT seeing the traditional's reaction when we move up the Power List with Travel Weekly. And the John Frenaye Spin Machine will go into overdrive.
"At 28% tax bracket you would have to claim over 17,000 to get 4,800 in tax savings...."
ReplyDeleteBingo!
You are wise beyond words. Sandy Botkin (former IRS agent) says the average family can come up with an additional $18,900 of expenses that can be reclassified as business expenses . . . just by owning a home-based business.
Thanks for your support.
For the last time, you do not earn commission on airline tickets. You earn a commission on the fee that YTB charges the client. If you are a travel "professional" you ought to understand that by now.
ReplyDeleteTravel Weekly did say that you reported $414M. They also said they double checked and YTB told them that it was true. But Travel Weekly also says that only $211M was sold by RTAs.
I just was reading a story in Travel Agent magazine about an agency in Atlanta (an Amex agency) that has 85 employees and does $100M in sales. That is $1.17 million dollars sold PER EMPLOYEE.
Now YTB, claims to have sold $414M with 131,000 RTAs. That works out to $3160 dollars per RTA.
Now who is the "serious" travel company?
And when are suppliers going to realize most of the sales are self sold. It was quoted recently in a comment here from a YTBer that Americans take 2 to 3 vacations a year each averaging $1500. Things that make you go hmmm.
"I just was reading a story in Travel Agent magazine about an agency in Atlanta (an Amex agency) that has 85 employees and does $100M in sales. That is $1.17 million dollars sold PER EMPLOYEE."
ReplyDeleteGood for them.
That's not our business model and never will be. We sold $414 million and travel is travel. We put a lot of people in hotels, cruise ships, airlines and on tours, etc . . . Proud of it, in fact.
By the way, John. Ever any comment on the YTB wannabe companies like WV and Traverus? This is a site dedicated to MLM travel . . . or isn't it? And don't give us the "publically-traded" excuse. A crack reporter like you with all of your "insider" contacts could give us the scoop on their travel sales. Or does it just validate your obsession with YTB-only?
YTB is the loudest of the group and they want 99% of the attention. So, I am merely obliging. I have mentioned Traverus and WorldVentures here. Just go read.
ReplyDeleteBut you know what, they are a lot smarter than you are. They are letting YTB run at the mouth. They are letting YTB make all the mistakes. They are patient and will wait till THEIR largest competitor falls (that woudl be you) and then they will have a blueprint for how to go forward in travel--or to get out.
I would love to see a breakdown of that $18,900 that can magically be re-classified as a business expense...
ReplyDeleteDon't you think the IRS might be breathing down your neck if you claim that your paying 18,900 per year on a business that generates a few hundred dollars?
Oh and does 18,900 include the fines, lawyer fees, and penalties the IRS will probably get when you get auditted?
Travel Weekly reported that YTB said of the 414mill sold by YTB Intl 212mill was sold by RTAs.
ReplyDeleteWould any of you anons like me to find the quote for you?
212m per 138,000. The other 202mil was sold by TTAs who use VacationCentral as a host. And Vacation Central hardly likes to mention YTB cause agencies (me) will not join them because of it.
TW also stated that YTB is primarily a corporate agency.
YTB sells very little air via ARC compared to most 'corporate' agencies. They actually sell very little air compared to most leisure agencies as well.
YTB will be a pyramid as long as recruiting brings in more than the commission from travel - please see the CA AG suit per this.
YTBs recruiting efforts are way way off. Please ask any of your local YTbers for confirmation.
Funny how things must be said over and over, day in day out, and they still drink Koolaid rather than the truth serum.
OH please you YTBers need to get off your high horse, your loud mouths and parading your arrogance everywhere (and here now) is what's gotten you guys in trouble. A 105 Million Dollar Class Action suit that wasn't dismissed b/c the judge saw merit. AG from Cali, investigations in Illinois (oouch your own HQ home), by the time one of them is done with YTB you all will disappear or maybe not...ya'll will start harrassing John b/c you really won't have a life then.
ReplyDeleteFunny about WV and TraVerus - they are smart not to be so damn loud like YTB. They will probably thank YTB for paving the way on what NOT to do!! ROFLMAO!
YTB really thinks they are invincible. I have had my large share of network marketing...and never have I seen people like YTBers...well except people in Amway. You guys truly are brainwashed pathetic folks, hyped on a dream of being on of Coach's 10,000 millionaires. ROFL How many are there now in 7 almost 8 years?? Like .03% of the company??
Come back to reality would you people?
Just like one of your own YTB spokesperson says...how could you live life having to defend your company night and day, day and night, week after week, month after month, year after year??
Must be some good koolaid.
All this does not change the fact that 85% of RTAs lose money and fail. Kim sorenson said that. Is he a liar too?
ReplyDeleteI'd love to post some of the comments I've gotten from Arnie Wiseman (TW in case you don't know) about YTB but I am a gentleman and cannot do that. Fair and balance and all.
ReplyDeleteHee heee!!! I wish all the suppliers would tell how they really feel..what do they have to lose by saying YTB sucks? 200mil + won't hurt em when they are getting billions from real agencies.
ReplyDeleteYes....sigh...wishful thinking...
Let's see . . . if I start a home-based business that costs from $250-500 to start and $50 per month and I work at it 4-5 hours a week. Shazzam! I can deduct the expenses that go along with operating that business. I can average, on a monthly basis, approximately $400 per month on tax savings. Don't know what State you live in, Math Major, but where I come from that means $4800 in tax saving my first year.
ReplyDeleteAnd what do you do when you haven't produced a profit 3 out of 5 years, are re-classified as a hobby by the IRS and forced to pay the back taxes for the past years when your business write-offs are disallowed?
"OH please you YTBers need to get off your high horse, your loud mouths and parading your arrogance everywhere (and here now) is what's gotten you guys in trouble."
ReplyDeleteIs this PIOTB??
Is this the absolutely obsessed anti-YTB poster from Scam.com?? John Frenaye spends a great deal of time with his crusade against YTB. But he is a piker compared to this guy.
I was hoping that I could draw him in. PIOTB spends a majority of his day writing multiple, rambling posts spewing tough-guy rantings against anything YTB. Probably a little guy with a Napoleon complex. Paragraph after paragraph, clipart after clipart, posting multiple posts in a row.
Talk about a guy without a life! If YTB went out of business, he would go into a deep depression. He would not know what to do with himself. His whole day revolves around being the "Anti-YTB BigMan" on scam.com. Post after post after post. I did my best to draw the big man in. I knew if I replied enough, he just could not stay away. No one, I repeat no one, outdoes PIOTB. Even sprinkle in a bit of internet porn . . . he's quite the man.
I know the traditional agents do not like YTB. Good for you. Firemedic and others have a healthy debate regarding YTB with the likes of Ainsworth, Eddie, TL and others. PIOTB needs serious help. He probably has a special YTB room with YTB newspaper clippings on the wall. Cannot bring himself to leave his computer because he rules the forum.
PIOTB: Time to get some real help, Napoleon.
Anonymous said... One little clue. We sell airline tickets and receive a $3.50 commission. No surprise. YTB sells a lot of airline tickets. And we don't charge a $30-$50 service fee like you do. So we can't add that wonderful mark-up into our commissions paid.
ReplyDeleteUm, Anonymous, where do you think that $3.50 "commission" comes from? It's from the $5 SERVICE FEE that ytb automatically adds onto any airline ticket purchased through your site! So, while you may not charge the same amount of service fee that real agents charge, you're still charging one! Geez, why is it that I know more about your business than you do?
Another Anonymous said...We sold $414 million and travel is travel.
My question to you on this is, how do you know it was all travel? YTB throws everything together when reporting numbers. Look the reports submitted to the SEC. There is no differentiation of travel sales, website sales, etc. None. How do you, or how does anyone, know what is what?
Once again, I'm going to ask any ytber here.......if your TRAVEL sales are SOOOO fantastic, why was Q3 profit only $288,000 (and how much of that was truly travel, and not everything else tossed in), and why is your YTD profit a MINUS $3,000,000+? Why will none of you answer this question?
Ainsworth--in fairness they actually do separate travel commissions from recruiting commissions from marketing income.
ReplyDeleteBut what is NOT indicated anywhere is the revenue from Canada, Bermuda, Bahamas. The money made on selling all those cars, tents, and flowers. It is likely all lumped together in travel commissions--after all they are a travel company! :)
OK, my bad. You're right, and there is a line for "marketing" and the like, but they don't differentiate the commissions on things like travel, cars, flowers, etc. So out of that "$414M", how does anyone know what is really travel commission, what is from YTB Cars, YTB Flowers, blah, blah, blah.
ReplyDeleteOnce again, I'm going to ask any ytber here.......if your TRAVEL sales are SOOOO fantastic, why was Q3 profit only $288,000 (and how much of that was truly travel, and not everything else tossed in), and why is your YTD profit a MINUS $3,000,000+? Why will none of you answer this question?
"Ainsworth--in fairness"
ReplyDeleteRare wording used by John, "fairness".
"Once again, I'm going to ask any ytber here.......if your TRAVEL sales are SOOOO fantastic, why was Q3 profit only $288,000 (and how much of that was truly travel, and not everything else tossed in), and why is your YTD profit a MINUS $3,000,000+? Why will none of you answer this question?"
ReplyDeleteAinsworth I can't wait to see your blogging and excuses and "buts" when YTB releases the yearly total sales next year.
Not so sure YTB is gonna make up $3M in 3 months considering the brunt of the AG and Class Action suits had not hit. Recruiting is way off. Travel is off, and RTAs are quitting at a rate of 500 per day.
ReplyDeleteBut hey, have another swig.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete"Once again, I'm going to ask any ytber here.......if your TRAVEL sales are SOOOO fantastic, why was Q3 profit only $288,000 (and how much of that was truly travel, and not everything else tossed in), and why is your YTD profit a MINUS $3,000,000+? Why will none of you answer this question?"
Ainsworth I can't wait to see your blogging and excuses and "buts" when YTB releases the yearly total sales next year.
So, where is your answer? Instead of wasting time to try and berate someone, why can't you answer a real question for once?
Ainsworth -
ReplyDeleteThe company did invest heavily in infrastructure this year, with it having a large effect on Q1 and Q2.
You should know, being the travel industry expert that you are, that travel sales, even though at an incresse this year, do not produce immediate commission and profits.
"if your TRAVEL sales are SOOOO fantastic, why was Q3 profit only $288,000"
I will make a wager. I bet you were surprised as heck that YTB had a profit at all. I bet you were predicting hundreds of thousands in losses. Now be honest, Ainsworth. It was kind of disappointing, wasn't it?
Yes, legal fees to defend ourselves from frivilous lawsuits and such do cost money. And the numbers are now around 100,000. I think the dropoffs will diminish because YTB previously made it way too easy to drop out. A simple email or support ticket would take care of it. Potential dropoffs now have to talk with our Customer Care Department and they will keep many RTAs in the fold. Also, a number of dropoffs have had to do with credit card issues. We are now calling those RTAs and assisting them in getting restored.
Soooo, that's my response.
Anonymous (of course) said..."How you wish that was the only money I made. Just part-time have you, but average $650 per month on the travel side and $1700 on the marketing side. And my adjusted gross income is just where I want it come tax-time. Out of pocket expenses are nil. But my home business deductions are great."
ReplyDeleteI have a pretty good memory.
As I recall, these are the same figures YTB and Travel: A Great Mix! used to use.
At least we know the elusive Larry is still posting.
"Long live YTB!
We will sell over a billion dollar in travel this year!"
Hey, better hurry. You only have a couple of weeks left to make that mark.
Looks like bigman PIOTB got my message, but did not want to respond. I knew it was him. He became a member of scam.com 9 months and HAS POSTED 1688 TIMES REGARDING YTB TRAVEL! Need I say more?
ReplyDeleteHere's his big, tough response:
"I love how these anon, balless YTB bastards are allowed and encouraged to post anon on John's blog and slander others on there on a daily basis without retribution. But you notice NONE of them dare set foot over here on Scam, because you cannot post anon over here.
I'd really like to meet this asshole. So, you lieing price of chicken shit, drag your worthless ass over here anytime! Let's have a face to face you little f***!"
PIOTB at his best! At least there were not pornographic links this time.
Anonymous above you do not do YTB any favors by posting your drivel. You make yourself and YTB look stupid. And, you wonder why no one in the travel industry likes YTB?
ReplyDelete"Anonymous above you do not do YTB any favors by posting your drivel. You make yourself and YTB look stupid. And, you wonder why no one in the travel industry likes YTB?"
ReplyDeleteSorry, but my posts are in direct response to the endless attacks on YTB. You may not like our business model, but it was John who started this campaign against YTB. You will not find any RTA-sponsored hit blogs against traditional travel agents.
This blog is an endless anal exam and daily attack on all-things YTB. The attacks are on the founders, employees and rank and file RTAs and Reps. There are some great people who have been associated with YTB for years and some great employees at our home office. Yes, we have our characters, but that will happen with ANY organization 100,000 plus strong. It is a cross-section of America and you get the good with the bad.
This blog started as an Anti-MLM Travel Blog. It is now YTB all of the time. I will certainly admit to being reactionary . . . yes, reacting to continual attacks against RTAs and the founders of YTB. You believe that we do not belong in the travel industry. You have your experts who agree with you. We believe that we do. And we have our supporters.
Just remember, the whole premise of this blog and stupid forums like scam.com will raise the defenses of anyone who believes in what they are doing is good. You, on the traditional side do not. We do.
My guess is if there was a blog attacking traditional travel agents and the way you operate, you would not smile and sing cum-by-ah with them. You would have your back up and defend what you think is right.
I happen to be a George Bush fan. He has made some mistakes, but I feel he is a good man at heart and the historians will treat him well for many decisions he has made. But there are people in the U.S. who have viseral hate for him. From movies glorifying the assassination of the President to the press showing excitement about the reporter throwing shoes at him in Bagdad, he has his detractors and people who truly hate him. The comments of people like PIOTB and his rantings about YTB, RTAs, the founders and employees remind me of that class of people. Cannot see ANYTHING good and obsessed with the bad.
I will certainly defend YTB. They have been good to me and my family. You have your opinions and that is fine. Chances are that few of you have spent any time with a YTB Director or been face-to-face with Scott, Coach or Kim. You probably would not change your opinions of our business model, but my guess is you would see things a bit differently than those who seem to obsess with every little move YTB makes.
Anonymous said..."Sorry, but my posts are in direct response to the endless attacks on YTB. You may not like our business model, but it was John who started this campaign against YTB. You will not find any RTA-sponsored hit blogs against traditional travel agents." And on and on and on.
ReplyDeleteI think there is a pro-YTB blog you may be interested in that attacks the TTAs quite a bit. It's by some "Travel Pro" that is anything but. I'm pretty sure you know all about it. You have yours, we have ours. Don't like it? T.S. You can do what I do and not read the other one.
A GWB fan? Go figure! A good man? Yeah, and so is your scamming weasel of a "Coach." You'll come to someday when he's in prison or Brazil with his suitcase of cash from YTB and you're left in the lurch. It will happen.
I Hate BLOGGING. I must be old fashion. I do not see myself as a travel agent like most TTA. I see myself as a self service travel agency. If you can recall the self service gas stations vs the full service. No matter how you look at it, YTB has been very innovative. I truly believe YTB has made some mistakes like any up and coming company. Once YTB becomes a perfect company that what is the rush to join.
ReplyDeleteI know TTA feel we cheapen the travel industry. There is a place for the TTA and the RTA. We are both in the business to make money. It has not been proven that YTB is an illegal company. I like John Frenaye, I think John is here to express his concerns about YTB. My question to John is, "Is John willing (on my dollar) to investigate it from a a hands on approach? I know he has been in the travel business for 10 or so years. He should be able to spot fake numbers. John, I will pay for you to visit the home office and ask all the questions you seek answers to. I realize that there are more than one way to view something. YTB'ers might be clouded by their love and affection for Coach, Scott and Kim. That may be true and if it is, Could John dispassion for YTB cloud his view.
John, the offer is on the table and I believe you know who this is blogging. You can meet with our travel department. You can have a special one on one with Coach. As a matter of fact if you want to meet with John Simmons and get his opinion I can proably set that up to. You name it and I will get it done. I will treat you and TRAVEL LISA who posted an unfavorable post about me. Hello Lisa.
"You have yours, we have ours. Don't like it? T.S."
ReplyDelete"A good man? Yeah, and so is your scamming weasel of a "Coach."
n MORON h -
Actually Doug has respect for traditional travel agents. He just reacts to morons like you who behave like . . . morons.
You, along with your good buddy PIOTB, are the epitome of the jerk class.
For the guy who is waiting for PIOTB to respond. You won't get one, why? B/c it wasn't HIM that posted you idiot! It was I, the other Anon.
ReplyDeleteAnd trust me, I know PIOTB, if he wanted to come here and say something he would post as himself or let everyone know who he was.
You are sooo obsessed with PIOTB you think anyone posting is him!! ROFL Sad, very sad.
IF you DO get a response for him, he will come and call you out. I happen to know PIOTB and if you actually read stuff, you would see a big difference in writing styles. He's a little more...blunt. lol
What is it about these YTBers. They cannot talk without insulting, attacking someone PERSONALLY, they just prove our point over and over and over.
ReplyDeleteBACK ON TOPIC.
YTB IS A REACTIVE COMPANY, PERIOD.
Whoever keeps making reference to PIOTB and the porn crap, you need to get your head examined. He holds nothing back, but has NOT DONE anything in reference to porn. Your statements are slanderous dude. How did that childish rumor start anyway?
ReplyDelete"Your statements are slanderous dude"
ReplyDeleteLet's see. PIOTB being slandered. According to Webster, slander means "defame" or "malign". Defame or malign? Has PIOTB ever defamed or maligned the founders of YTB or the thousands of YTB RTAs? Hint: Only on a daily basis over a nine month period.
"What is it about these YTBers. They cannot talk without insulting, attacking someone PERSONALLY, they just prove our point over and over and over."
Good question. What is it about these TTAs. They cannot talk without insulting and attacking someone PERSONALLY, they just prove our point over and over and over. For example . . . PIOTB posting today on scam.com:
"Some ANON YTB C***S***** posted this on there today . . . you lieing piece of chicken shit, drag your worthless ass over here anytime! Let's have a face to face you little f***! Put your tiny cajones (if you have any) where your big mouth is, pal!"
Nothing PERSONAL, right??
Anonymous (of course) said..."n MORON h -
ReplyDeleteActually Doug has respect for traditional travel agents. He just reacts to morons like you who behave like . . . morons.
You, along with your good buddy PIOTB, are the epitome of the jerk class."
I am not a travel agent. I am a supplier rep. Since you know me so well, you would have known that. You resorted to name calling again. I thought you wanted to be professional, Jerk-off.
The guy stalking PIOTB, why don't you go to scam.com and talk to him there? This is John's blog. Chicken.
ReplyDeleteThat's so immature.
Ummm mom, Sandy was talking about me in Mrs. Johnson's class!
But honey, you're in Mrs. Williams class.
But mom I don't like it so I just talk about Sandy to my classmates (who don't like me either). Mom, why don't they like me?
I don't know honey. You sure?
They say it's because I'm too sensitive. That when they have class discussions I get mad and talk mean to the teacher and everyone!
They said if I can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen!
Well honey then maybe you ought not be in that class. I will have you transferred to another class.
But I love that class mommy!
Why! You don't like what they say..so why go back
You get the drift YTBers? I'm sure you understand that, broken down Barney style.
No thanks. One day of posting on this site and responding to the drivel makes me feel like spending a few extra minutes in the shower.
ReplyDeleteThe discourse over there is ridiculous. A bunch of whining little people who have nothing better to do than spending a majority of their days monitoring the thoughts of the ignorant. They think they are powerful behind their keyboards. Any real business person would laugh at the daily "he said, she said" drivel and the cutesy comments of ignorant people trying to one-up the next guy.
Enjoy your time over there. If you hang around with idiots like PIOTB, you tend to become one.
Ah, yes, PIOTB. His words speak for themselves. Let's hear it one more time for the big guy:
"Some ANON YTB C***S***** posted this on there today . . . you lieing piece of chicken shit, drag your worthless ass over here anytime! Let's have a face to face you little f***! Put your tiny cajones (if you have any) where your big mouth is, pal!"
What a guy!
To those of you that question YTB's business model, can you please knock off the personal comments. This blog is about the issues, and you actually just help YTB by making it personal and getting into a pissing match instead of focussing on anything meaningful
ReplyDelete"This blog is about the issues . . ."
ReplyDeleteYes, the issues. I will mention an issue that I find interesting in how this forum only focuses on YTB. When it is purported to be a MLM Travel Site. John avoids WV and Traverus like the plague. Yes, they are not publically-traded and not as much info is available. But John says he is an insider and has all of the connections. I have heard that Traverus is in trouble with its CSOT number. I also heard that they are not legal in Canada. And, if you want to talk about a company that REALLY focuses on recruiting and even less travel than YTB, there's your company. World Ventures is all about Dream Trips. Where are the travel sales? John gives them a pass. More than likely because he likes that both company's marketing push is built around going after YTB RTAs. It's really all about YTB to John Frenaye, not MLM Travel. Less RTAs, even if they move to Traverus or World Ventures, is a good thing to John. It's what he is all about.
Selective scrutiny, that IS an issue.
"Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteTo those of you that question YTB's business model, can you please knock off the personal comments. This blog is about the issues, and you actually just help YTB by making it personal and getting into a pissing match instead of focussing on anything meaningful"
Does this pertain to the YTB members who post as well or are they just allowed to run amok on here as usual as evidenced in many of the statements above?
Hey, if you've got some dirt on Traverus or YTB we WANT to hear it!
ReplyDeleteHave at it, Anon!
I think that Travelencia would create some great fodder right along with TraVerus and WV. How about Travel Trends? I can personally give you tons of information on the sleaze at Travelencia and quite a bit on TraVerus too. Too bad they're both small potatoes. I'm not even positive that Travelenica is still around after only 8 months in business.
ReplyDeleteI have never heard JF mention how his "contacts" in the travel industry view these other MLMs. $129 and you are a travel agent with Traverus. Travel agent Dream Trips at FAM rates to destinations all over the world from World Ventures. Front and center in their recruiting offering these "deals" to prospects. Lots to talk about and those companies are supposedly doing bookings with some of his insider contacts. Why never a word about these practices? I guess they do not have the initials Y-T-B in them.
ReplyDeleteThe other MLMs were addressed here. YTB is the largest, loudest and most arrogant of all. Not to mention they openly boasted they were going to rule the Travel Industry and put us all out of business. That is why the focus has been on YTB.
ReplyDelete"The other MLMs were addressed here."
ReplyDeleteWhat? Gosh, I must have missed them. Please name for me the posts that were addressing OTHER MLM travel companies. Too many to count? Right. They are recruiting inexperienced people to become "CTAs" and offer them all of the travel agent goodies. Boy, just that CTA name should get you riled up! Seems to me the type of information that would be perfect to discuss on a blog titled "MLM and TRAVEL: A BAD MIX!"
"YTB is the largest, loudest and most arrogant of all,"
Don't mistake defending your company from a daily anal exam as "arrogant". John and his gang come after us with a desire to put us out of business (no, it is not just "civil debate") And we are supposed to hold hands with you and be nice, happy RTAs. Nope, as they say, that dog don't hunt. Call it arrogant if you want. I call it defending against a DAILY (that's right, DAILY. In fact, some days more than once) onslaught of accusations and spin against YTB.
Funny---anal exams are only reserved for assholes.
ReplyDeleteYes, and you use your head to examine the "anal orifices".
ReplyDeleteTo use the famous TTA buzz phrase: DEFLECT, DEFLECT, DEFLECT.
Why aren't the YTB members obeying their God:
ReplyDeleteTravel Site Owner
Policies and Procedures
(Effective December 15, 2008)
3.5 - BLOGS, CHAT ROOMS, SOCIAL NETWORKS, ONLINE AUCTIONS, AND
OTHER ONLINE FORUMS:
Travel Site Owners shall not use online blogs, chat rooms, social networks, online auctions
sites, or any other online forum to market, sell, advertise, promote, or discuss YTBTN’S
products or services.
The above Anonymous, who has the last several Anonymous postings, sure has the writing style and verbage of FireMedic. Wonder why he isn't using his screen name?
ReplyDeleteBecause it's not me Ainsworth. I have not been around for a few days but I see I haven't missed anything new. I've seen you accuse me a couple of times for posts yet I could say the same about you with a bunch of anon posts. You sure got quiet after you were called out for being JoeMargsWorth.
ReplyDelete