Monday, December 8, 2008

The Facts Half-Truths About YTB--Part 8


Today, let's take a look at the eighth and last tab on the new YTB site called www.TheFactsAboutYTB.com . We have saved the best for last!

Fact Check:

The first thing to note is that the URL is "fast"check not "fact" check. A Freudian slip? You tell me.

Rhode Island. A lot of truth here, but it was not YTB that "voluntarily" shut down operations. When they were confronted by the DBR, they made the decision to shut down. It should be noted that at the time they shut down operations, there was already significant progress in the RI legislature to repeal the agency licensing laws. Rather than risk any suits or penalties, YTB likely felt it was better to wait the few months till the legislature approved the new budget which did away with funding for the program.


YTB a Pyramid. YTB has some good info here, but it is flawed. Apparently the Attorneys General in several states also feel it is flawed. Just a cursory look at any of the SEC 10Q or 10K filings will demonstrate that YTB is indeed a pyramid scheme. The majority of their money is earned from recruiting. The websites they "provide" are nothing more than a rebranded site from Travelocity which is available to anyone for free. Of course the true litmus test will be in a court. It may be in California, Florida, Louisiana, Texas or in Washington, DC if the feds become involved. YTB feels they skirt the law by offering travel as an afterthought. If they were interested in being a travel agency, why not eliminate the MLM component of the business model? The answer is too simple--because they would be out of business. The recruiting drives the pyramid. And if the current numbers are indicative, recruiting will dry up pretty quickly in 2009!

Card Mill. YTB was dubbed a Card Mill by Royal Caribbean which terminated their agreement. YTB was dubbed a Card Mill by ASTA. YTB was dubbed a Card Mill by IATAN who rescinded their accreditation. YTB appealed this decision and the decision was upheld. The only entity that does not deem YTB to be a Card Mill is YTB itself. If it looks like a duck.... YTB uses the argument that they sold $414M ($211M) and that proves them to not be a Card Mill. Well, let me put it in a different light. According to their own figures, each of their "agents" sold $1500 in travel in 2007. Does this seem like a profession to you? Or maybe someone buying a trip for themselves. If each agent sold the minimum required by IATAN for a legitimate credential, their sales would be upwards of $6.9 BILLION. It also does not help that CLIA has discovered YTB to be a cash cow for them and is not addressing the loopholes that allow YTB to continue to operate as a Card Mill.

California Attorney General's Lawsuit. They are not commenting on this as they should not be. However, many Reps and RTAs have bragged that Scott Tomer disclosed information about the suit at several large meetings. Regardless, this will be decided in the courts and there is not any "settlement" talk at present. One thing that YTB does not mention here is that the AG was investigating them for 18 months and trying to get them to comply with the State laws. Apparently YTB woudl not comply and the suit was filed. Why did YTB not comply? Why did they not disclose this material information in any of their SEC filings? Why did they not inform the field of the investigation? Why did they allow insiders with inside knowledge of this investigation to sell off huge chunks of stock during the investigation? Isn't this insider trading? Michael Brent, Coach Tomer and others made a LOT of money off of stock sales when the stock was trading high knowing full well that a lawsuit that likely will kill the company was imminent.

Royal Caribbean. Royal Caribbean did a brave and a good thing and made a decision at to what was "good business" and what was "bad business". YTB says they were singled out--they were not. There were several agencies that also were terminated. YTB also says that Royal Caribbean never notified them. Well they did and Royal Caribbean published that notification in the trade press but did not disclose the names of the recipients.

IATA/IATAN Status. This paragraph is factually correct, but it does not say WHY this move was taken. YTB was charged with illegally re-selling the credentials and was terminated by IATAN. Initially YTB thumbed their nose at IATAN feeling they were not needed. When their recruiting started to slide (IATAN was used as a huge selling point) YTB appealed their decision and hired Al Anolik to represent them. The initial decision was upheld and YTB was required to remove all references to to IATAN from their business. Something that has been done corporately, but not in the field. Many Reps are still claiming they can get IATAN, and many business cards and CRTA cards. One RTA just the other day claimed that IATAN would give her a card when she proved her travel sales. She was corrected rather quickly.

Negative Information about YTB. While YTB may consider the negative information a "success tax", most companies woudl not. While YTB may eb very successful in the MLM industry, they are far from it in the travel industry. What they have managed to do is to take an industry and use it to further an agenda to recruit. Travel is an ancillary means to achieve their desired results. Yes, travel is sexy, desirable, and alluring. This is the selling point and it has been effective for YTB as they have been able to recruit 138,000 people to pay the price. However, when you boil it down to dollars and cents, it is not worth it. The RTAs pay in an inordinate amount of money for a subordinate amount of return. Just look at the most recent 10Q--the RTA paid YTB $97.7 million dollars. In return they received $16.2 million. These are cold hard numbers. No spin, It is incredible that YTB has the nerve to liken themselves to companies such as Microsoft, McDonalds and WalMart. Perhaps YTB does not realize it but all of those entities actually sell a product.

Franchising. The initial announcement about franchising came out just before the attorney general filed suit. This was a last ditch effort to stave off litigation and it did not work. There has been no further discussion of this to my knowledge, but it is interesting that on this site, YTB claims that the MLM will not change, they will merely call it a franchise to gain more acceptance of the public. I suspect that some regulating authority might have something to say about that!


Stock Prices. Of course there is no comment on that. But if yo look at any of the public records you will see that the principles have been ditching the stock left and right. Michael Brent is the largest shareholder and rather than take his chances, he entered into a Sales Plan to divest himself. Strangely enough, the Coach himself is the minority shareholder in his own company. One might think if you believed in the longevity of your own product, you might invest in it. Well then again, maybe Coach is reading the writing on the wall as well.

REZconnect & YTB. This is the way that YTB was able to become a publicly traded company without any oversight or review by the SEC. It is doubtful that had they gone the traditional route that approval would have happened.

Better Business Bureau. YTB tries to belittle the effectiveness of the BBB. It is true they are not a government entity. It is not true, as some of the YTB Reps have said that you need to pay the BBB to get a good rating. YTB cites the number of complaints against Orbitz, Priceline and Expedia. Yes they do outnumber the ones that YTB has, but YTB has suggested we look at the record and compare.

How does YTB fare when you look at the number of complaints per dollar of travel sold? Not too well I am afraid.
  • Orbitz .0000002
  • Priceline .0000003
  • Expedia .0000001
  • YTB .0000004
So, YTB has twice the level of complaints with the BBB as Orbitz when you base it on travel sold. And as is typical with most MLM companies, when people end up losing money, they are embarrassed and ashamed that they fell for the ruse and likely do not report it. Orbitz, Expedia and Priceline are all legitimate travel agencies with trained personnel selling a product. They are not selling smoke and mirrors and the promise of riches and traveling like an insider.


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22 comments:

  1. "The first thing to note is that the URL is "fast"check not "fact" check. A Freudian slip? You tell me."

    Apparently this has been corrected. The URL is now "http://www.thefactsaboutytb.com/factcheck.html"

    According to the "Fact Check", "YTB is a legitimate travel company that is first and foremost about selling travel and travel products, and secondly, travel web sites."

    Why then, after many years, do sales of travel sites still form the vast majority of revenue, rather than income from travel sales?

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  2. Yes, the URL was originally FAST check and it has been subsequently changed (and I made the change to the post) however, that page still shows "information current as of 11/19/2008" on the bottom. One has to wonder how much else may have been changed.

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  3. I think one thing that really drives me nuts is this...

    "For the record, we were never contacted by RCCL about their decision. In fact, they were scheduled to present at our Funshine 2007 trade show but were a “no-show.” While we understand the pressure from traditional brick and mortar travel agents, YTB is disappointed with this decision."

    To those in YTB...for the record...MOST of the TTA's you will encounter are home based agents . YTB does not provide a new and different business model - they are just exploiting it and you!

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  4. I talked to one of the major airline customer service reps today and she told me they were "disgusted" with the "card mill" people who don't know the rules and regulations, baggage allowances etc.

    So, there you have it.

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  5. So there you have it! The airline customer rep has everyone set straight now! Darn John, if it had only been that easy for you!

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  6. "It is not true, as some of the YTB Reps have said that you need to pay the BBB to get a good rating. "

    You are wrong about that John. In order to be "accredited" with the BBB you have to pay for the service. Otherwise you will only get "no rating". Anything above that costs for the accreditation.

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  7. But to add to that, YTB cannot pay for the accreditation until the California suit is finished. The BBB does not care about the class action or civil suits due to so many other companies have the same battles.

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  8. The AG suit IS a civil suit so there goes your theory.

    The BBB does indeed rate any company. Please check your facts.

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  9. Another major vendor is getting ready to cut YTB because of their RTAs lack of training, and their business practices. Wonder how long they'll be able to stay afloat under these conditions.
    It's interesting to see the spin they put on the stuff on the website. It's all sunshine and light at YTB. Except for the lawsuits, the issue with IATA, the vendors kicking them to the curb,etc....

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  10. "It's interesting to see the spin they put on the stuff on the website. It's all sunshine and light at YTB. Except for the lawsuits, the issue with IATA, the vendors kicking them to the curb,etc...."

    If you talk to the res people and BDM's they have nothing positive to say about YTB at all. They comment on their lack of training, how they want perks, freebies and upgrades just because they belong to YTB, their rudeness and they are just a plain pain in the butt to deal with. But, hey it's all sunshine in YTB land and it's all us against them. ROTFL!

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  11. John, Your PASSION for YTB is amazing. I wonder what good things you could accomplish and how successful you could really be if you were to take that same PASSION and build with it instead of tearing down and trying to destroy. After reading your blog, it appears that you have an compulsive obsession with YTB. Has anybody from YTB really hurt you that much, to cause you spend your every waking hours attempting to destroy them. What will you do if YTB just went away? Your compulsive obsession would dictate suicide. I'll pray for you John.

    Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you. (Ephesians 4:29-32 NKJV)

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  12. "The AG suit IS a civil suit so there goes your theory."

    But because it was file by the AG it does matter even though it was filed "civil". You really don't know as much about the AG as you think.

    "The BBB does indeed rate any company. Please check your facts."

    Yes they will rate any company, as long as you pay. John, I have checked my facts. YTB has literally sat down with them. Feel free to contact the BBB for yourself and you will see just how ignorant you really are about the BBB.

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  13. "
    Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you. (Ephesians 4:29-32 NKJV)"

    Careful Anon, you will offend the people here with words like that.

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  14. Geez Rod, you got your butt handed to you by the Scam posters for your Bible thumping there, which is off topic and offensive, so now you decided to come here and do the same thing???? Get a life and keep your religion to yourself!

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  15. JOhn,
    using the BBB numbers and the Travel Weekly power list numbers....your math of complaints per dollar sold is wrong.
    Orbitz would yield 1.59 x 10^-7
    Priceline 3.29 x 10^-7
    Expedia 0.55 x 10^-7
    YTB 2.19 x 10^-7

    YTB fares better than Priceline and pretty darn close to Orbitz. Bottom line is they are all comparable.

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  16. Anon---well a few months ago I was told that i had paid off the AG to sue YTB, now you tell me I don't know what I am talking about. Is this another case of those in YTB wanting it both ways?

    Josh..double check your math. But the big difference between YTB and the rest is that the others are are focused on selling travel and not recruiting the downline. Take Travelocity. Where do their revenues come from? Selling travel, not selling the WCT sites. You see when you have a vested interest in selling travel, you make attempts to do the right thing as it relates to travel. When you are vested in signing up the next person that will pay $449.95 (oops I forgot about the fire sale... $249.95) then your focus changes and travel becomes secondary if not tertiary.

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  17. Ah but can we then assume that some of the YTB complaints would be not related to selling travel? If that is the case then you would have to add in the revenues from selling websites. Therefore with the amount of complaints it would fall to a far smaller number. Which is it?

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  18. Josh--moot point, remember YTB is about TRAVEL..or did you miss that meeting. Which way do you want to swing today?

    Amex also has some complaints, but they are spread out among travel,insurance, and the lions share with their credit cards. Now Amex is the company and YTB likes to point out they have complaints but don't like to differentiate. YTB is the company. They have complaints and it is more complaints than most any other entity in the business.

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  19. And on a side note, one of YTBs cheerleaders is quiting YTB yet again...Denyse is leaving YTB according to her. I just don't understand why she would leave "the best opportunity out there"?

    WAHM has just moved up a notch. Now who will Gail ra ra with now? Herself..probably!!

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  20. Denyse is blowing smoke again. She publicly stated over she was leaving and by gosh she is still with YTB. She will never leave because the recruiting bonuses are too juicy for her to give up. Pays for her Glamour Shots....

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  21. Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you. (Ephesians 4:29-32 NKJV)"

    ReplyDelete
  22. I don't listen to other people comments I find out for myself and yes I paid $500 and I will write it off on my taxes and yes I am making the money back already. Yes I took the first training class and paid for it but I am getting that back soon too. So what did it cost me to join nothing really. But I gained a whole lot a business for under $500 some nice tax benefits for my household expenses. And I don't mind it at all because the benefits out weigh the start up cost.

    People you have to start somewhere this company is great and going places. The market will bounce back like it usually does and I will be in position to buy some of that cheap stock because I will have money to buy it. This is an easy business it is not hard as John makes it out to be. A Travel Agent is a learning process he might be 70 years old but he is still learning too.

    Every business has bad seeds you see them everyday at your job. America get a plan people are broke losing their houses and you all are listening to this fool. No job is safe from anything happening not even yours John. So would you rather build income are listen to and old man born in the 40's or come into 2008 and listen to the people YTB is the way to go. Travel have fun. I can't wait to go more places than I ever went before, neither can my friends and family they are begging for me to do cruises for them. Keep the money in the family don't go to people like John have your own business I found out if I wanted to I can get a free travel portal from travelocity website it that easy because I did it. Now you talk about untrained they just gave it to me just like that and told me to notorize a paper send it to florida. So be glad YTB is around to properly train people and to work with them. Because all I had to do is build a website around the portal and their you have it I am a travel agent no training or anything.

    So be careful what you wish for John.............
    Untrained TA's walking around. Basicly I am working with my friends and family not strangers so are most people in YTB. John is afraid we are going to take all his four friends he has on this blog. hee hee

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