Seemed like a great plan. Then he sweetened the deal and said that if you could earn 5 of those bonuses between August and the end of November, he woudl kick in an additional $2500. At the time I called this another carrot that was unreachable for most. And apparently I was correct.
A total of 39 people out of an eligible 305,000 actually earned the bonus. Someone do the math and tell me what fraction of a single percentage that represents? So, YTB has paid out $97,500 in additional bonus money. Each of those people had to recruit at least 30 RTAs.
So if my math serves me right, this group is responsible for 1170 new RTAs in a 4 month period. The sign up fees alone on this equal $526,441. And we know YTB collects the first month rent up front as well, so that is at least another $58,441.
It seems as the Rep sales force (who was recruiting at a pace of 500 per day a year ago) is following the lead of the RTA sales force and, well not selling that much,
And again, it shoudl be noted, that the loudest mouths on this blog and the various forums apparently did not make the grade!
0.012786885245901639%
ReplyDeleteHow many did you sign up John?
ReplyDeleteAre you not one of the eligible 305,000 ???
The key word here is eligible.
It's another SPIN on the numbers.
You know good and well there are not that many actively working REPS. Not everybody is capable of working this business and being successful.
It is my understanding that you yourself were not successful at recruiting REPS. Yet you POO POO the others who have been successful at you could not accomplish.
Maybe the majority of people ARE LOSERS and need not to even try better themselves. All that people are wanting is a chance to better themselves.
I am amazed that you continue kick these people and pour salt in their wounds when they are down.
You didn't do any better this business than they did, yet you call them names for trying.
Have some Compassion man.
I am no longer a rep because YTB has developed a system that is designed to fail except for the few early pyramid adopters and the people running the scam.
ReplyDeleteI also realize that YTB never deletes anyone from their roles so yes those people are indeed eligible.
But unless your claim is that there are only 100 or even 1000 reps working the system out of the eligible 305,000....the gist of the post still remains valid.
This incentive sucked. It was yet another carrot that was dangled in front of the Reps/RTAs to show them the way to the promised land!
>A total of 39 people out of an eligible 305,000 actually earned the bonus. Someone do the math and tell me what fraction of a single percentage that represents?
ReplyDeleteThat would be a hefty 0.0128% !
You guys are always saying that less than one percent of the REPS do anything. so, if 305 REPS are going to work the REP side of the business and 39 made that bonus, I would say that that was pretty good.
ReplyDelete1% of 305,000 is 3,050. So are you saying that there are only 305 active Reps in YTB and the other 304,695 are not working the system? If so, that does indeed explain a lot.
ReplyDeleteI left out a zero, i swore I typed it. LOL but yes 39 out of 3000 to get a bonus for recruiting 30 people in a few months is a pretty good percentage.
ReplyDeleteReps/RTAs, its all a deflecting argument.
ReplyDeleteVirtually all the RTAs are the active Reps, so lets just use the RTA numbers.
39 out of 100,000 made the bonus.
That is .039% of the active people made the bonus. Not even a half of one percent.
That is pathetic and that is the REAL story.
Pathetic to not be able to recruit 30 people in 3 months? I don't think so. I am both an RTA and REP and I average on the REP side 1 to 3 travel site sales a month. I am please with that as the business grows over time, but to be able to not be able to ramp that up almost 10fold is hardly pathetic.
ReplyDeleteIf you are recruiting 1 to 3 per month you are far ahead of the curve in all MLMs.
ReplyDeleteI would venture to say that you are probably one of the top tier in YTB as well.
So, do you feel the incentive was reachable?
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeletePathetic to not be able to recruit 30 people in 3 months? I don't think so. I am both an RTA and REP and I average on the REP side 1 to 3 travel site sales a month. I am please with that as the business grows over time, but to be able to not be able to ramp that up almost 10fold is hardly pathetic.
Dec 23, 2008 9:57:00 AM
Then why even bother to offer the incentive? Why bother to offer something that is unobtainable for the majority of people? What's the point?
"I also realize that YTB never deletes anyone from their roles so yes those people are indeed eligible."
ReplyDeleteSo you ARE still a REP?
And you continue to POO POO your Fellow YTBer's.
Shame on you...
What is it about comprehension? No, for the umpteenth time, I sent them a notice via by back office to cancel my account. They did cancel it and there is no longer a rep site.
ReplyDeleteHowever, for YTB's reporting numbers, I do still exist. Doug Bauknight (among others) has confirmed several times that when a rep quits, YTB still maintains them on the books. It makes for a good marketing blurb---there are over 300,000 people that have seen what a great program this is!
But there are not 300,000 active.
ReplyDeleteSo you shouldn't count them as being eligible.
The only that should be counted are the ACTIVE and currently working the business.
Your SPINS make up statistics like the media and the Government does. It is not ACCURATE info that you are SPINNING. You are now giving yourself the same credibility as FOX NEWS and CNN. It's ALL SPINNING in 1 Direction.
I thought you were here to present FACTS.
I am Disappointed in you John.
Dont be surprised if you get a lump of coal in your stocking this year... You've been a bad boy.
We are splitting hairs here. If you feel that the inactive reps should not be counted, call YTB and let them know your thoughts. They count them because it is good for them in some instances. But in this instance, it is not working too well is it.
ReplyDeleteBut before you call YTB, if you are also a TSO, I want to point out that your comments will likely be ignored. You see according to Section 5.2 disparaging comments are not allowed:
5.2 - NON-DISPARAGEMENT
YTBTN wants to provide Travel Site Owners with the best products, travel commission
plan, and service in the industry. YTBTN values your constructive criticisms and
comments. All such comments should be submitted in writing to the Customer Support
Department. To best serve you, YTBTN must hear from you. While YTBTN welcomes
constructive input, negative comments and remarks made in the field by Travel Site
Owners about YTBTN, its products or services serve no purpose other than to sour the
enthusiasm of YTBTN’S other Travel Site Owners. For this reason, and to set the proper
example, Travel Site Owners must not disparage, demean, or make negative remarks
about YTBTN, other Travel Site Owners, YTBTN’S travel services and products or YTBTN’S
directors, officers, or employees.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteBut there are not 300,000 active.
So you shouldn't count them as being eligible.
The only that should be counted are the ACTIVE and currently working the business.
Your SPINS make up statistics like the media and the Government does. It is not ACCURATE info that you are SPINNING. You are now giving yourself the same credibility as FOX NEWS and CNN. It's ALL SPINNING in 1 Direction.
I thought you were here to present FACTS.
I am Disappointed in you John.
Dont be surprised if you get a lump of coal in your stocking this year... You've been a bad boy.
They may not be active, but they are still counted in the census. If they are inactive, then they should be purged from the rolls, so that they aren't counted in or for anything. But instead of doing that, they aren't purged, so that Wood River can use it to make the numbers look better. Now who is spinning like Fox and CNN?
So how does one tell who is an active REP and who is not if all REPS (active or not) are on the YTB books. Seems like a problem you should take up with YTB, not John.
ReplyDeleteBut yesterday you said 89,000 have quit.
ReplyDeleteThat means some of them are not being counted if they quit.
Which is it? they quit and there are stats for the number who quit or once YTB, you are YTB forever.
You cant have it both ways.
Are you DIZZY from your SPINNING yet?
As an inactive YTB REB (not a TSO) I can make disparaging remarks about YTBtn and Coach, Scottie and Kim all I want. Ahh...the freedom!
ReplyDeleteThe pride... in knowing that I have broken the shackles locked on me by Wood River. This is a blessed day for sure.
Uh Anon, those quitters were RTAs. Stay on the subject please.
ReplyDeletebut you say there is no difference in the two companies... which is it?
ReplyDeletequit or no quit?
There are two companies, no wait, this time there is one. Oh hell, I forget.
ReplyDeleteBut you know there are 300K Reps that have joined. But wait, only a few of them are active. Oh shit, I forget which number we are supposed to use here.
But I know we have 138,000 RTAs, oh, wait it is upward of 112,000, well that COULD be 138,000. Or are we using the 98,000 number now. Oh hell, I forget again.
But I know that I earned $30,000 a month in travel commissions last year.. Oh wait, that was travel sales and it was for the year, I think, no wait a sec. Oh shit, I forget.
But I can deduct it all on my taxes!
Now your Talking...
ReplyDeleteThat what I like.. FACTS....
John, you just made my day you ole HOOT!
ReplyDeleteThat was GREAT!
2 HOOTs for you!
HOOT! HOOT!
Good one John! ROFL..when the shoe fits for the day we suppose it's one...or two companies, this many or that many REPs/RTAs.... LOL
ReplyDeleteIt's funny how they use the word spin alot. It's simple math. Divide the number of Reps you YTBers decide on for the day, and divide by 39. Either way the incentive sucked ass....and if you guys think it's 'good' that's sad. Let's use another analogy.
Ford makes 305k vehicles. out of 305k only 39 pass the very difficult safety inspection...that's GOOD??? You guys are a hot mess.
I was also a RTA who quit, but I was able to log into my back office for months as a Rep...though I had canceled with YTB...and I'm sure I was counted in the numbers. lol That's what YTB does. Manipulate numbers when it's fitting.
IF you have numbers question since ya'll can't pull out a calculator, call your corporate office and ask. lol
You know its sort of ironic...
ReplyDeleteSide A says here are the numbers...
Side B says you can't just look at the raw numbers - but you have to look at the context you are using the numbers then add a lengthy explanation of why the numbers are not as bad as they look.
The irony is that Side B is claiming Side A is "spinning" the numbers...
Count them all you want. There are over 120,000 who joined for free and never became an RTA. Just like John and his little detectives. They joined for free.
ReplyDeleteI'm happy for the 39 how made the extra $2500. A $2500 bonus comes in handy about the middle of December. There were many more who got 1-4 Leadership Bonuses. That's what a contest is all about. I had 5 RTA/Reps who got between 1-4 and 1 who got 5 and won the extra $2500. I was happy for her.
And guess what? She is in my downline and made more money than me during the contest. Wait a minute. I thought only the people at the top made all of the money with those "pyramid things". Something must be wrong here!
You just made our point again...The Reps are the ones who recruit not the RTAs.lol So again your numbers sucked ass.
ReplyDeleteBlah Blah Blah...still sad no matter how you dice, slice, cut, cube, knead, SPIN, pound, flip it!
Tell your 'downline' we said congrats...she may wanna put it in savings...
So you must be one of the few people doing 'something'. Are you a director??
Let's not go into your leadership bonuses. That's a HUGE chuckle. Went from over hundreds to around..hmmm whadaya know...around 39?? ROFL
And guess what? She is in my downline and made more money than me during the contest. Wait a minute. I thought only the people at the top made all of the money with those "pyramid things". Something must be wrong here!"
Hey let's try an exercise....how about...looking at the BIG picture? Answer this directly if you can. Who in your company are making the most money there? The Rick Rickets, Ron Heads, Jerome Hughe's of the company? Right? What does that make you?...certainly not one of the 10k millionaires!!!
YTBers will never get it....til they crash and burn. Let's pray for their FAMILIES since they don't have an iota of logical thinking.
ReplyDeleteHOOTER's ANY ONE?
ReplyDeleteIt's almost HOOTER's TIME!
( o Y o ) HOOT! ( o Y o ) HOOT! ( o Y o )
You HOOTS are GREAT!
Melvin, can you hoot for me please? lol
ReplyDelete( o Y o ) HOOT!
ReplyDeleteJohn said...
ReplyDeleteI am no longer a rep because YTB has developed a system that is designed to fail except for the few early pyramid adopters and the people running the scam.
Reading between the lines (like John) This is what he really meant:
I am no longer a REP because YTB developed a system that requires me to have people skills, have friends who are willing to do business with me, and be willing to learn new ideas and work well with others to not only be successful myself, but to help others become successful.
Since I have no people skills or friends and people in general just don't like me, I will call the business model unsuccessful and slander them by calling it a pyramid scheme run by scammers who are more successful than I could dream of becoming.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
ReplyDeleteThat's all ya got?? Please John is RESPECTED in the travel industry. What do you have? Don't flatter us with your lame answer please..You're Too..Blind!
Well if that is correct, I am in good company--there are many who feel the same way.
ReplyDeleteBut I probably would say that it is my people skills that have allowed me to get where I am, and that I do like my friends and family and do not feel like alienating them by convincing them to join a "great" program where most people fail and the average annual income is less than $100. But if you are willing to pay $500 and $50 a month, your average annual income from both "flopportunities" might approach $250.
So, yes, I will call a spade a spade. And a pyramid a pyramid. There are many that agree with me!
Why are we worried about them?
ReplyDeleteWhy do you even waste your time?
John, Forget them.
Be a Christian and turn the other cheek.
TTA here:
ReplyDeleteThat's what I tried saying yesterday. Why waste your time. But to be a Christian and turn the other cheek, you have to be a Christian.
Why, Have they HURT you that much?
ReplyDeleteThat you can't Forgive them...
For all the customers they have taken from you?
Debbie said...
ReplyDeleteWhy are we worried about them?
Why do you even waste your time?
John, Forget them.
Be a Christian and turn the other cheek.
Please, don't bring religion into this. Not everyone on the face of the earth is a Christian.
And, Anonymous "TTA", what's wrong with NOT being Christian?
Let's put your "numbers" into perspective, John Frenaye.
ReplyDeleteFrom my perspective:
300,000 Reps on the books.
120,000 as Reps-only and came in for free over the years.
99,000 active RTAs.
3 out of 4 of those are not interested in selling websites and interested in the travel side of YTB only.
That leaves approximately 25,000.
2/3 of those 25,000 are only selling websites in order to get their 6 - which gives them a $50 bonus each month.
That leaves approximately 8000 RTAs/Reps who are week-in/week-out spending part of their week building a team.
95% of those RTAs/Reps are part time.
With the economy like it is (which is, by the way, having an effect on ALL direct sales companies), the contest numbers are not that bad.
And many more than the 39 earned 1-4 Leadership Bonuses during the contest period.
Like it or not, those figures are much closer to reality.
"Not everyone on the face of the earth is a Christian."
ReplyDeleteAt least in the TTA Circles...
WILL THOSE YTB PEOPLE EVER GO AWAY....WHY DON'T THEY START THEIR OWN BLOG AND CHEER EACH OTHER UP DAY IN AND DAY OUT??
ReplyDeleteAnd that Perspective YTBer...did someone just prove our point again? A long drawn out explanation on simple math?
John, keep doing what you are doing. You can't make everyone happy, and you are not personally attacking, calling names, or threatening to hurt any family members or none of that craziness. If those don't like what John has to say DON'T READ IT...just like a TV has a remote, your computer has a back key, and a mouse...there are hundreds upon hundreds of websites to hang out on. IF you don't like reading this stuff, don't come here and get all upset over it.
It IS John's blog and you can agree to disagree. But if it's getting under your skin, I would say don't come to the site and read it.
Ainsworth said...
ReplyDeleteAnd, Anonymous "TTA", what's wrong with NOT being Christian?
Nothing wrong with it - that was my point. He may not be a Christian.
To "From My Perspective" there goes that fuzzy math. You list 3 categories and say 3 of the 4 don't count.
ReplyDeleteOne side of your mouth talks about how bad the economy is, and the other talks about how recessionproof YTB is. Egads, you can;t be serious, you mean that there are people in YTB that actually have Just Over Brokes? Say it ain't so!
And even with 8000, the result is still one half of one percent. The incentive worked EXACTLY the way Coach had hoped it would. Very few woudl succeed, but in the meantime, many would try and line his pockets at $500 a pop.
One side of your mouth talks about how bad the ecomomy is . . ."
ReplyDeleteYes, John, the economy IS bad. It has effected most every direct sales company in the U.S. Maybe things are great in your world, but, for most Americans, it has been a struggle. Or most people at least THINK the economy is bad.
"And the other talks about how recessionproof YTB is"
The "recession-proof" DVD that YTB used was dubbed by many direct sales companies. It was used extensively by many DSA companies to help people know that having a small business with an additional stream of income is a wise choice during uncertain economic times. Many well-known direct sales companies used the same exact video.
"The incentive worked EXACTLY the way Coach had hoped it would."
No, it actually didn't, John. You have to WORK to earn a $2500 bonus. No company is going to hand them out like candy. The economy DID have an effect on the contest. Had it been last year, there would have been many more winners. This year, it took 30 RTA sales on your Power Team to win the bonus. Last year, during the same time period, it took 22 RTAs sales on your Power Team to win a cabin on Coach's Birthday Cruise. There were 500 winners last year. Yes, 30 is more than 22. But YTB had hoped to have many more winners.
Those are the facts, if you happen to be interested in them, John.
"Please, don't bring religion into this. Not everyone on the face of the earth is a Christian."
ReplyDeleteThat's for sure and that's too bad. But it's also the way Jesus said it would be.
And John being a Christian? That's funny. Maybe only by title but definitely not by action.
HOOT HOOT this blog is full of HEATHENS.
ReplyDeleteThat's what this blog is FULL of HEATHENS.
If you are not a GOD FEARING CHRISTIAN, You're a HEATHEN, thats what you are.
HOOT HOOT
So the YTB is recessionproof DVD is not YTB 's but just a generic marketing tool used by all companies in the DSA? I know the economy sucks. But you know what, I can admit that, and I will even commiserate with clients about that. What I don;t do is try to get them to part with $500 that they likely cannot afford to join a program that is designed to fail because someone gave me a DVD saying it was recessionproof.
ReplyDeleteHad the contest been last year there woudl have been more winners for sure. partly because of the economy and mostly because YTB was not experiencing the unprecedented drop in Reps and RTAs that it is right now due to the mismanagement of the company. But do not kid yourself, there are no incentives in YTB that are designed to reward many. Look at the 30-30. Not going so well. What about Coach's 10,000 millionaires. What is he up to --maybe 5 or 6? What you are failing to see is that this guy dangles a carrot in front of everyone and you all go for it. You sign up because he tells you there is a ton of money to be made, there is free travel, and perks and benefits. But reality is vastly different. Yes there are those things for a few. And the ones that don;t make it, you chastise them and call them failures and losers because they did not work hard enough.
All of the incentives work that way. Dangle a carrot (usually a LOT of money) and get people pumped up to hustle their asses off knowing full well that most will never be able to accomplish it. But reap the rewards of their "almost" efforts.
If you cannot see this you are foolish.
Seriously, go back and look at the results of ANY YTB incentive program and look at the percentage of winners versus losers.
And on this year's incentive, you had the bonus reset--so last year likely woudl have had less winners. Las year, if you lost a PT member you needed to replace them before you could work on your next 6. This year Coach forgave it (in order to stop the Directors from defecting) and even if your PT dropped to 1, all you needed to do was recruit 5.
Anon--FYI I am an ordained minister. But I also know the proper place for religion and business and usually they do not belong together!
ReplyDeleteJohn said...
ReplyDeleteAnon--FYI I am an ordained minister. But I also know the proper place for religion and business and usually they do not belong together!
ROFL.......a what??? With your language?? And your actions??? Just like you and your cronies have asked others, was that from a card mill?? Did you buy that?? ROFL ((oh my side hurts))
"And on this year's incentive, you had the bonus reset--so last year likely woudl have had less winners. Las year, if you lost a PT member you needed to replace them before you could work on your next 6."
ReplyDeleteLast year was total Power Team sales from Convention to the 1st of December, not Leadership Bonuses.
"All of the incentives work that way. Dangle a carrot (usually a LOT of money) and get people pumped up to hustle their asses off knowing full well that most will never be able to accomplish it. But reap the rewards of their "almost" efforts."
That is typical of any direct sales companies working with a sales force. Take most any sales organization . . . only a few out of many make the promotional trips. That is a fact, even with sales people working full-time. And $2500 is a nice reward for hard work.
"What I don;t do is try to get them to part with $500 that they likely cannot afford to join a program that is designed to fail because someone gave me a DVD saying it was recessionproof."
In all honesty, the DVD (because it was generic) did not have a great impact. The concept was good, but the delivery was average.
"ROFL.......a what??? With your language?? And your actions??? Just like you and your cronies have asked others, was that from a card mill?? Did you buy that?? ROFL ((oh my side hurts))"
ReplyDeleteLook in your own back yard scum bag. Coach is also an ordained minister and he used his Church to sell a gas additive scheme, shares in the Lisa Marie that both bombed and as recruiting for YTB. And, let's not forget Ms. Denyse being a minister's wife and not keeping her stories straight.
Keep laughing because their are enough ordained ministers in your ranks abusing they system and conning people....
I am ordained through YTP Your Total Preacher
ReplyDelete