When I received an email from YTB last month, I had a similar response. It seems that they are in the process of pre-selling registrations to their Annual Convention (July 29 to August 2, 2009 in St. Louis) for a mere $98. But you need to pay for it by December 31st. After that, it increases to $125 and finally $250 "at the door".
Pre-selling registrations at a discount is nothing new. In fact, CLIA began pre-selling their CLIA 360 show shortly after the last one concluded. But as we all know, thanks to YTB, CLIA is not short of cash and everyone is fairly certain that they will actually be around to have their show.
But such is not the case with YTB. With RTAs flying the coop in droves, the stock tanking, their insiders selling shares, two class action suits, an attorney general suit, and a MAJOR supplier preparing to terminate their agreement, I am not so sure YTB will be around for the big shindig in July.
According to YTB - 86,358 RTAs quit YTB during the first 9 months of 2008. And the lawsuits didn't come out until late summer.....I am guessing that they are just trying to get a little more money out of people before they quit....
ReplyDeleteIf they could just sell to 25% of those that quit, that would have been about 2 million dollars...
There are many credible sources stating that YTB is about to file Chapter 13. Should this occour then anyone who paid for the convention will be s.o.l.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous,
ReplyDeleteThis is another example of the war is still ongoing.
It was in October 2007, I found out the line had been drawn in the sand by some very disgruntled folks in the travel industry who disagree with the mlm business model; about the same time this blog surfaced. Since that time, open war broke out on the mlm business model and an all out effort ensued to force the travel industry to choose sides, standardize TA Identification, and resist change of the travel mlm model distribution system of travel agents -- http://www.path4hosts.com/Defining_a_Host_Agency.asp
http://www.path4hosts.com/testimonials.asp
Without organizations like PATH, outside elements such as the rise and influence of the MLM's will devalue the purpose of the legitimate Host Agency as well as the travel professional. We need to define ourselves through PATH.
Who's a Travel Agent? Asked James Shillinglaw in a Modern Agent article he published on 9/3/09.
He stated…
How can suppliers and consumers recognize legitimate travel agents? That's a question that has dominated the industry ever since I started covering it 18 years ago. The growth of large multi-level organizations enlisting thousands of outside "agents" to sell travel or just memberships in the groups they represent has confused the issue even further. Consumers are left wondering just what a travel agent really is when their neighbor down the street, who has no obvious qualifications, starts offering them cruise deals. One solution, of course, is to tighten the requirements for travel agent identification offered by a number of industry groups. And that's just what my panel at THETRADESHOW will attempt to tackle on Sept. 8 in Orlando at 11:30 p.m. on the SHOWSTAGE on the tradeshow floor.
At one point back in the late 1990s, I thought those "card mills" had finally been vanquished. But we unfortunately have seen a new surge of them as multi-level marketers "rediscover" the lure of the travel industry. The benefits of cut-rate travel are far too enticing for these companies, who purport to offer discounts and the ability for consumers to "travel like a travel agent." Multi-level marketing companies are not in themselves illegal, but they end up confusing consumers, many of whom already mistakenly believe they can get the best "deal" by booking online. Now their neighbor down the street is offering them the best "deal" as well as the chance to get in on the action.
One solution to this problem is to firm up the system of travel agent numeric identification or ID cards that identify legitimate travel agents to travel suppliers. These numeric codes let suppliers know which agents are professional sellers of travel. During our panel, titled "Will the Real Travel Professional Stand Up?" we'll discuss some of the major numeric coding systems in the market today, as well as certain ID cards. Our panelists include, at press time: Bob Sharak, executive vice president-marketing and distribution for CLIA; Scott Koepf, CTC, MCC, president of NACTA; Gary Fee, president and founder of OSSN; Bert Rivero, regional director-the Americas for IATAN; and John Pittman, vice president-industry and consumer affairs for ASTA.
I'm still hoping for more panelists to join us, but sadly it appears that ARC, which has its own travel agent identification systems, will not be among them. For the first time in my memory, ARC is not participating in an ASTA-based event (THETRADESHOW is sponsored by ASTA and other travel industry organizations). I was told by ARC that it would not participate due to budgetary considerations.
I also have reached out to ARTA, which is supporting the development of a completely new agent ID, though scheduling considerations may prevent someone from joining us on Monday. Now, to be honest, I'm not convinced that another form of agent identification is really necessary. And TRIP, the ARTA-backed ID system, still seems many years away, if it indeed does come to fruition at all. But I'm willing to be convinced -- and this forum could be a place to start.
During our session, I'll ask each of our panelists to describe their agent identification or ID systems, including how many agents participate, what the requirements and cost are, and what benefits they provide to agents. Then we'll get into the real issues involving agent identification. One question I'll pose whether it really is useful to have so many different agent identification systems. We'll also tackle the issue of whether card mills can be minimized by systems that can identify legitimate professional travel agents.
We'll examine how suppliers and some of these agent identification systems themselves are dealing with the issue of "card mills" - namely by dropping those companies that seem to fit the "card mill" mold.
I'll also be asking how these travel agent identification systems are working with travel suppliers to help them better identify travel professionals. The entire session is aimed at answering a pretty basic question: Are the current systems of travel agent identification adequate? And if not, how could they be improved?
Who is the other MAJOR supplier that is ready to can YTB?
ReplyDeleteNotice paragraph 7 in James Shillinglaw's article:
ReplyDelete"We'll examine how suppliers and some of these agent identification systems themselves are dealing with the issue of "card mills" - namely by dropping those companies that seem to fit the "card mill" mold."
It's no secret there is a joint-effort effort to coerce suppliers to drop YTB.
The tactic of organizing a panel of travel industry CEOs and top executives to influence change at the THETRADESHOW which is the #1 travel trade show in North America.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.thetradeshow.org/splash09.htm
This travel show enables travel sellers, destinations and travel related companies to connect and establish new business relationships.
The war on YTB is serious.
Yeah who's boot'n YTB? If that's true it could be the end for YTB.
ReplyDeleteThis is THE HOOTINest PLACE to start RUMORS..
ReplyDeleteYou guys are A REAL HOOT! Keep it coming... I enjoy a LAUGH! HOOT! HOOT!
Are those that have commissions pending SOL also if they file Chap. 13?
ReplyDeleteRod, WTF are you talking about. The suppliers are not canning YTB because travel agents are complaining. They are canning YTB for unethical business practices. Wake up already. It amazes me how clueless you are about the industry as a whole.
ReplyDeleteRCCL canned you because all that was being booked was probably primarily personal travel..which is considered rebating..which is frowned upon.
IATAN canned you because none of you deserved the card if no travel was being booked. $5K comm is needed which majority certainly didn't have. Didn't abide by their rules, so kicked to the curb. Don't be placing the blame on travel agents for your companies short comings...their demise is purely their own.
DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT SUPPLIER IS GOING TO CAN YTB? ANYONE? HELLO?
ReplyDeleteDouble HOOTs for you Travel Lisa!
ReplyDeleteLisa,
ReplyDeleteHow many suppliers is it that dropped YTB? 3 now we're talking about maybe the 4th. How many suppliers does that leave YTB to do business with? hundred's or thousands?
I didn't say it was anti-mlm TA's are the only group after YTB. Obviously, there are anti-mlm CEOs of big companies after YTB as well who are using their influence to coerce suppliers to drop YTB.
Oh thats right Rod, there are hundreds of vendors lining up outside of YTB HQ! Yeah just like Funshine, what a bunch of BS!
ReplyDeleteYTBScam,
ReplyDeleteCan you put a number on how many travel suppliers are doing business with YTB?
Rod, who is the 4th that is being talked about?
ReplyDeleteHooters?
ReplyDeleteWell there are suppliers - and then there are "reputable, financially solvent" suppliers.
ReplyDeleteCan you take a guess at which ones the TTA's book with?
Of the three that dropped YTB, there was only one that YTB was actually doing business with.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteRod, who is the 4th that is being talked about?
Beats me.
Sounds like rumor and hopeful thinking Rod.
ReplyDeleteFrom various supplier-rep rants over the past year I would guess Globus, Trafalgar or Mayflower. My Globus rep told me on one tour this year the RTA tour member had to be asked repeatedly NOT to try and recruit the other guests.
ReplyDeleteShe came pretty close to being sent home.
I hope rod is right and the industry is making a concerted effort to ditch YTB. Not to worry Rod, you'll still have food, cars, flowers and funny shirts to sell!
eddie said...
ReplyDelete"I hope rod is right and the industry is making a concerted effort to ditch YTB. Not to worry Rod, you'll still have food, cars, flowers and funny shirts to sell!"
What part of plain English can't you understand?
I guess I don't understand 'the war on YTB'? I was hoping i did anyway.
ReplyDeletethat's right - the ineffectual Old Hens who are not moving big dollars are actually ganging up and forcing Vendors to drop YTB?! Hilarious!
ReplyDeleteHere's something interesting - was at a CLIA training in August and the gentleman doing training told me that the "real" good Agents with YTB usually stay with them only a little more than a year. How does CLIA know this? Because these "real" Agents contact CLIA to change their membership info! Apparently this is one reason why CLIA is not so hot to drop YTB - the good producers end up keeping a CLIA membership - they just move over to a reputable Host/Agency!!!!
Real CTA in MD
Real CTA in MD-YTB is also exploiting the loophole in CLIA policy--another reason CLIA is not willing to drop them because the RTAs that are in it for the perks can do so for an additional investment of a CLIA membership. This was discussed here.
ReplyDeleteHey John why don't you call up John Smith and ask him what he thinks about you and your allegations?
ReplyDeleteAnon, who is John Smith? Didn't he found Jamestown, VA or something? Since he has been dead for a while, I am sure he has no real interest, but if I come across him, I will be sure to ask.
ReplyDelete.
What a HOOT? LMAO All day long... That's what I'm doing... HOOTIN!
ReplyDeleteJohn Smith... Now he was REAL HOOT!
ReplyDeleteHe was one of our FOUNDING HOOTS... That's waht he was...
I know Iris...you call it "hootin" but you really need to be careful that your private photos are not on the web..you never know whos hands they are going to fall into.
ReplyDeleteI believe this is you a little wile ago when you were hootin'. Just before you were a hollerin
BLOG NOTE: That link in the anonymous post is not pleasant---open at your own risk. (LOL, I have a responsibility to my readers)
ReplyDelete"Anon, who is John Smith? Didn't he found Jamestown, VA or something? Since he has been dead for a while, I am sure he has no real interest, but if I come across him, I will be sure to ask."
ReplyDeleteYou should know since you got an email from him spanking you. CLIA ring a bell? Call him up and ask him what he thinks of you.
Take the Chapter 13 filing with a grain of salt. Chapter 13 is for personal bankruptcy, not for a business. They would be filing a Chapter 11 to reorganize or a Chapter 7 to dissolve. This is probably just an Internet rumor since the info is inaccurate.
ReplyDeleteJohn if you had any real responsibilty you would delete that link. That is completely unclassy and you know it. If you don't then you have condoned it.
ReplyDeleteOh anon---I should have known. How could I expect a little YTBite to know anything about the travel industry much less have the skills to be able to read a blog that is admittedly written on a 4th grade level? There is no John Smith at CLIA. Maybe you are referring to Jim Smith?
ReplyDeleteJim and I had a few conversations and a bunch of emails. He knows CLIA has a loophole. He is pissed that it is being exploited and that I mentioned it.
But I might give him a call. Why not tell me your name and I will ask what he thinks of you?
Anon is correct Ch 13 is a personal bankruptcy. Businesses are 7 or 11!
ReplyDeleteI cannot remove the link. I can delete the post, but that is not the policy because I believe everyone should have the ability to speak their mind (as small as they may be).
If the original anon poster wants to delete it I believe they can do it.
But I did do the responsible thing and placed the warning.
"Jim and I had a few conversations and a bunch of emails. He knows CLIA has a loophole. He is pissed that it is being exploited and that I mentioned it."
ReplyDeleteWell, if Mr. Jim Smith is so pissed why doesn't CLIA close the darn loop hole???? If it wasn't for CLIA in the first place YTB wouldn't be where they are today. What a bunch of dummies.
Oh, okay Jim Smith. Yeah, you do that! Just call him up and ask him what he really thinks of you for accusing CLIA of being bought off by YTB.
ReplyDeleteNo that is not responsible John and you are a facilitator for that garbage. You could delete and and explain why and no one would care. Better yet, just leave it there and it will be easy to point out what kind of crap you truly facilitate when slamming YTB.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think about it Lisa, Kate? John's your hero right?
"(LOL, I have a responsibility to my readers)"
ReplyDeleteAnd you laugh about it.
eddie said...
ReplyDeleteFrom various supplier-rep rants over the past year I would guess Globus, Trafalgar or Mayflower. My Globus rep told me on one tour this year the RTA tour member had to be asked repeatedly NOT to try and recruit the other guests.
She came pretty close to being sent home.
Well don't think its Globus since they are scheduled for a training in January.
Never said YTB bought off CLIA. Go re-read the post. I said CLIA sold out. Big difference. Why don't they close it? Ask them. My guess is that for now they are making a pretty penny from YTB as they have been for the past few years.
ReplyDeleteIf you are so concerned about CLIA, give them a call and ask them all the questions you like. Remember, last year, Metre Wisham insisted that CLIA had an office in Wood River. I sent them the email claim and they denied it. So, I suggest that you do some legwork and call CLIA on your own. If you need the number, let me know.
If you don't like the picture quit looking at it. What is so hard about understanding that? Doug et al got all pissed off when I had a photo of a baby that was inadvertently flipping the bird--it is still there. To anyone reading---the picture is offensive, it contains nudity. If the anon poster comes back, feel free to delete it is blogger allows you.
Who said John's my hero? I surely haven't said it. I do have a mind of my own, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how slimy YTB is. I'm not the one that believes everything a snake-oil salesmen sells me, nor do I drink the kool-aid from HQ of all the BS he's selling you. You want to follow blindly into bankruptcy..have at it. Not my problem. I do have a problem with uneducated masses telling people they are travel agents, when some of them cannot even spell travel.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the hoots from the idiot owl above. Seriously, did you just graduate from Kindergarten or is it preschool?
Butthead...that is a pretty ignorant comment (and clueless).
ReplyDeleteAllow me to quote from YTB's own website:
http://www.thefactsaboutytb.com/factcheck.html
I will highlight the parts that are important for you if it helps.
Royal Caribbean
After a mutually prosperous business relationship, RCCL formally discontinued their business relationship with YTB due to our network marketing business model.
For the record, we were never contacted by RCCL about their decision.
In fact, they were scheduled to present at our Funshine 2007 trade show but were a “no-show.” While we understand the pressure from traditional brick and mortar travel agents, YTB is disappointed with this decision.
It is unfortunate that RCCL decided to single out YTB in spite of the fact that we sold over $13 million in RCCL products for 2007.
It is important to remember, however, that YTB has spotless contractual relationships with hundreds of vendors and suppliers—the biggest in the industry! If any changes occur in our relationship with RCCL, you can be assured that the details will be provided.
So how is it that you feel Globus could never do such a thing when they have a webinar scheduled to review their products in January?
"Never said YTB bought off CLIA. Go re-read the post. I said CLIA sold out. Big difference. Why don't they close it? Ask them. My guess is that for now they are making a pretty penny from YTB as they have been for the past few years."
ReplyDeleteYou changed your original post John and you know it. But only after Jim Smith called you on it.
Hey Lisa, how do you feel about John facilitating pornography and then laughing about? Bet if someone from YTB did that you would screaming about it.
ReplyDeleteThink what you want. I don't change posts. I will append them (like I did). Perhaps you are confused with Just Picture It Now?
ReplyDeleteDo me a favor, find the cached version of the original post and prove me wrong.
Honestly its not my blog, and I've not clicked on the link, and dont really care to. If you know its porno, dont click it. He's warned twice..and I can read. Either way I don't care, I honestly don't get uptight or upset over nudity. Don't click on it if it offends you.
ReplyDeleteHey John, why don't YOU show us the original cached version of it?
ReplyDeleteIf you were told that it's a picture of a very large lady masturbating then you are still okay with it? I saw that you jumped all over someone that got off subject yesterday but today you don't have a problem with it.
ReplyDeleteeddie said...
ReplyDeleteI guess I don't understand 'the war on YTB'?
Eddie,
Read at the top of this blog:
"Travel...It's serious business!"
It's a serious war against YTB.
"Hey Lisa, how do you feel about John facilitating pornography and then laughing about? Bet if someone from YTB did that you would screaming about it."
ReplyDeleteNot Lisa but hey 1st amendment. Anyone wants to look at it be my guest. Doesn't offend me and I am a God Fearing Christian like the rest of you. Difference is I am NOT a hypocrite!
No, I never said I was ok with it. We seem to forever be getting off topic, but who is it usually changing the subject? I do not care what the picture is...I chose not to look at it, you have that same choice. Move on already!
ReplyDeleteThe topic is wether or not YTB will be around to make good on the pre-purchased tickets to the convention. Honestly, they don't seem to be doing so good cash-wise, they are still not accepted in the industry for their actions, and yet you all still defend them. Do you approve of the things they do, not question why it is they do it? This is what I don't understand. If this was my company, I would be looking for a new host and right quick.
Rod, sorry I missed your post in the mess of BS above. I'm sure YTB has many suppliers they use, yippee. But other reputable hosts and agencies are not banned from doing busines s from any of them. The industry is tired of the card mills, its been a long time coming, and now with the MLM aspect, even worse. People who have NOT AN INKLING on how to book travel are claiming they are agents. You all tout how great your site is, I showed you today (as have others) that your site is flawed and doesn't give the best pricing. If your ok with charging someone $1K more, go for it, but I'm quite sure it won't be a repeat client when they find out.
ReplyDeleteYou are relying on a website to tell you what the best price, resort or whatever is. To me thats biased, as I prefer to check to make sure its the best. I rely on my knowledge, others in my office, other professional agents that are friends of mine, and not a computer...as with my point with you today. $7200 business class ticket on your site, due diligence on my GDS and reading fare rules, $6200 on my computer. Which is better for the client?
"I am a God Fearing Christian like the rest of you. Difference is I am NOT a hypocrite!"
ReplyDeleteThe first sign of someone of a hypocrite is someone claiming not to be one.
That Woman in the PIC is HOOT! That's what she is... A HOOT! Is she any relation to John Smith?
ReplyDeleteNow wouldn't that be a HOOT! Our Founding Fathers in a scandal with the likes of her...
We love ya John... You ole HOOT!
What's great about the picture poster and the facilitator is that they are professional traditional travel agents!
ReplyDeleteExactly how do you know that the person that posted the picture is a travel agent? Or are you assuming this. Its an Anon poster.
ReplyDeleteTwo HOOTS for that comment! HOOT HOOT!
ReplyDeleteI think it could be TI - afterall, it was because of a YTB Agent's inatention to matters that TI ended up being quite embarassed recently.
ReplyDeleteReal CTA in MD
Rod, There are many in the industry who dislike how YTB operates...suppliers especially don't like to do all the booking work when YTBites don't bother to learn how. Then there's that arrogant attitude that you yourself have mentioned. If you think it's a war? Well, I think YTB will lose.
ReplyDeleteAlright, now someone is stealing my impression of Iris' "hoot" thing. I can assure everyone that I did not post that link to the porn. Besides, Iris isn't that good looking. And I do not post anonymously either.
ReplyDeleteIt was probably PIOTB who has been posting as anon. ROTFLMAO!!!
ReplyDeleteJohn said...
ReplyDeleteButthead...that is a pretty ignorant comment (and clueless).
Allow me to quote from YTB's own website:
http://www.thefactsaboutytb.com/factcheck.html
Everyone is NOT as unprofessional as RCCL is. I work with the owner of Globus - I know!
Eddie, If Ainsworth figured it out it's a war and Lisa certainly isn't wearing kid gloves, why would you think this is anything but war.
ReplyDeleteLisa, You have got to be kidding, but you are wanting me look bad so I am taking you seriously.
ReplyDeleteIf you think I am relying on a website to tell me what the best price, resort or whatever is you have wrongly assumed I an untrained YTB REP.
Rod said...If you think I am relying on a website to tell me what the best price, resort or whatever is you have wrongly assumed I an untrained YTB REP.
ReplyDeleteI thought there was a big difference between a REP and an RTA (disguised as a TRAVEL AGENT). Two different companies, you know, or so they claim. A REP is a lot different than an RTA. Was that a slip-up?
I AM NOT A REP WITH HIS RTA BUSINESS ON AUTOPILOT BECAUSE ALL I CARE ABOUT IS RECRUITING. That is not me.
ReplyDeleteDavid---why not enlighten us and please let us know who the owner of Globus is and perhaps his direct phone number?
ReplyDeleteRod, go to bed. Geez, you have been posting here and over at scam.com all day. You need to get a life pal......
ReplyDeleteRod, go to bed. Geez, you have been posting here and over at scam.com all day. You need to get a life pal......
ReplyDeleteJust like John.
You bunch of HOOTS!
ReplyDeleteRod - we think you are an untrained RTA - or at best, minimally trained, inexperienced, and lacking any meaningful backup from YTBs team of "professional" Agents who seem to know very little as well....
ReplyDeleteReal CTA in MD
Let's talk about porn shall we:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFQ0T_BCR4I&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRrxL8gaWOY&feature=related
http://calvary-center.com/calvarycenter_english/Studycenter/Lessons/Articles/pornography.pdf
This is the correct link:
ReplyDeletehttp://calvary-center.com/calvarycenter_english/Studycenter/Lessons/Articles/pornography.pdf
For some reason, the url is being cutoff.
ReplyDeleteadd /pornography.pdf to the end of the above url.