I recently ran into an interesting question brought up by a fellow poster, and YTB Travel Professional, that caught my attention. The reason it did so was because one of the main things the YTB posters tell us constantly is that their RTA's are TRAVEL TRAINED and that YTB itself and suppliers train them exclusively. You even have Marc Mancini doing training’s for you.
"Hi, I have a teammate who is looking for a part time job in the travel industry to get more experience. Does anyone know any places that will hire in an office (B&M) an inexperienced person who has purchased an online agency? "
If you are so well trained, why would you want a job working in a B&M (the shame..a JOB) to gain more knowledge and experience? Shouldn't you already have had all this from what we are told? I’ve seen a response saying that training is not experience..your right it’s not, but that would also mean that probably 90% of the RTA’s have none of that as well. Also, why would you think that a B&M agency, who’s not affiliated with YTB, would hire you part time/full time/anytime when you have a separate booking engine that would not give them the business?
Now in all fairness, the training you all claim to get from suppliers is not really training at all. Showing you a product, is simply that. Training for a real agent would be learning a GDS, geography classes, deciphering airline rules/regulations, exchanges or tour operator procedures. I'm sure many would agree to this fact. I've seen posts where some do not even know that Canada is not part of the US, do not know that Visa’s were required to travel to China, and as yet nobody has answered the question to the difference between MCO and MCO. Since the convention the only "classes" I've seen referred to were about recruiting (Build Your Biz the Christian Way & Building Momentum through Travel Parties). When are the “Geography 101” or Customer Service 102” classes?
I googled YTB Travel Training and majority of what I got was..you guessed it...recruitment training. Shouldn’t travel training be MANDATORY and not OPTIONAL for you to become an RTA? Especially for those who do not simply want to be a website, but want to jump on in and actually assist customers. With all the emphasis on the lawsuit saying recruiting is what all your about, you'd think someone would wise up and actually start pushing the Travel Training Part.
"and as yet nobody has answered the question to the difference between MCO and MCO".
ReplyDeleteLisa, MCO looks like MCO to me. Did you mean for them to be different, perhaps MCO and MOC?
By the way MCO is the stock symbol for Moody's Corporation, correct? :) :)
Now Steve, don't confuse the issue. However, I guess we can now ask, What's the difference between MCO, MCO and MCO? ;-)
ReplyDeleteMCO - Orlando International Airport
ReplyDeleteMCO - Miscellaneous Charge Order
(yes, I'm and RTA)
Lisa---welcome to our latest periodic guest blogger!
ReplyDeleteI suspect that this person is one of the minority who are interested in selling travel and see the flaws and weaknesses in the YTB program. But they are not willing to completely cast off the YTB false promises just yet--I mean WHAT IF I get a power team of 1200 and can earn $30,000 a month
:) Thanks John. Hope you are feeling better.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure their are a few people, probably former agents, who do know the differences. Power to them. Why they are with YTB is beyond me. But..majority of the ones we seem to run into, do not know ANYTHING about travel, but tout what great training they offer. So why doesn't YTB do MANDATORY training. Why is it optional?
If your insistant on being the largest seller of travel via internet or not, you should at least have people who know something about the product. That would make financial sense in my eyes. Supplier training is not travel training. Recruiting training is not travel training. Building your business the christian way is not travel training. Its like a broken record...but with the AG on your back you'd think someone would get up to fix the skip in it.
Yay Biz Team! So where did you pick this up? I've seen nothing in YTB training that would give you this info. Are you a TTA that joined? I'd really be interested in hearing why as I just don't see YTB as having the infrastructure (or commission split) to benefit an experienced agent.
ReplyDeleteBiz Team?
MCO -- Orlando Int'l Airport aka the location near where YTB is having the Funshine Trade Show September 12-13.
ReplyDeleteMCO -- Miscellaneous Charge Order
Let me explain:
Sometimes the cruise line will want to get the full amount and wait until the actual sailing date or later (just to make sure the person doesn't cancel)before paying your commissions. In the case of a cancellation, even though the cuirse line keeps part of the payment, the agent usually gets no commission. The exception is when there is some "commission protection" deal with the agency. Usually this will be in place if the agent has said sold the passenger the cruise line's own trip cancellation insurance. If payment is by credit card, you will have to ask the reservationist for the correct procedures and what sort of documentation the cruise line requires. They may require a MCO ("miscellaneous charge order"), which means that payment will be processed much as an airline ticket would be through A-R-C.
Rod--stick to the day job. The cruise lines doe NOT have MCOs. Cruise lines pay commissions upon final payment (yes, YTB has been holding money back on all the RTAs)because the cancellation penalty is 100% so everyone on the sale end is protected--agent...and vendor.
ReplyDeleteSo, rodtravels, that tells me you know something about an MCO. Are there other places an MCO can be useful?
ReplyDeleteYes, John, but he does show where an MCO might be used. Admittedly, it's not the best example.
ReplyDeleteThis means nothing. Literally it took me 5 seconds to find this answer online. And I'm not a TTA or a RTA.
ReplyDeleteJust google this "MCO in travel agent" and the answer comes up on the second hit. WOW!
A Miscellaneous Charge Order is a A-R-C document used to process the payment of travel arrangments other than airlines.
ReplyDeleteScam, please don't take this the wrong way, but your comment is exactly why things escalate into name calling. You are not in the industry. For me, those answers tell me alot. If Biz Team is considering answering my question, s/he is not going to if they feel they are going to get ridiculed. We are all somewhat guilty of this. But my question to Biz Team is completely serious. I would ask the same thing of Candi May. I do not understand a TTA finding YTB useful, except in a very minor way, to selling travel.
ReplyDeleteAnn,
ReplyDeleteThe problem is that this proves nothing. It shows that a person who isn't a TTA or a RTA can find a answer to that question within seconds. It doesn't prove anything. It doesn't prove that they know what they are talking about, it proves that one can read up on the internet. I wouldn't put the blinders on just yet. It's sad my relatives that are in YTB know alot less about travel than I do. That says alot about the type of people in YTB.
Scam, it's not what you're saying, but how you're saying it. And, of course, because one can find this info on the net tells us another thing about how serious someone is about selling travel if they can't answer the question. But how the question is answered, even if technically they know the answer, let's us know if they have had some training. Take rodtravel's last answer about the MCO being an ARC document used to process the payment of travel arrangements other than airlines. Yes, that's true. But it is also true that an MCO is used for airline transactions too...
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with Scam here. First off, Rod was with YTB for almost three years never sold anything really and made no money and quit. In that time he learned nothing. Nothing about YTB or about the Travel Industry. He has also been absent from them for many months now and still has not learned much in THAT time. And when you can easily look anything up on the net and provide the answer (and you can research a bit, not just pick the first answer that you see on the net, but search for a few minutes and get a better and more complete answer) it's proves nothing as far as I am concerned. Especially since he was rather off base.
ReplyDeleteYTB does not provide anything of real value for training and why should they? It's all about recruiting because that is where the money for them, being an MLM/Pyramid. Even the commissions that they pay for Travel are terrible, compared to what a real TA earns. They call themselves Travel Agents when all they do is point people to a website which is connected to Travelosity. Anyone can search the net and book their own travel from dozens of sites anyways, so it's pointless to even use YTB since their prices (no matter what they claim) are mostly higher anyways. They also offer no customer service whatsoever. The RTA's phone number is not on their website, YTB's is, which is only open during "business" hours 5 days a week. What happens the rest of the time and even happens when they can reach customer service? Consumers are told and forced to call the supplier most of the time. So since, YTBers are not even dealing with a customer unless it's some friend or relative that they hoodwinked into booking a vacation with them, why do they need to learn anything about travel? They have no real motivation to do so. Remember, it's all about those webistes and making money while you sleep!
I am aware you could easily find the answers to the questions above online. The point being, that so far no YTBer can explain, is if travel is so important, why isn't training mandatory. If you are one of the "I'm just a website" person, then fine, your training isnt required, but you should not be entitled to any travel perk for being so. If you are "hands on" RTA and prefer to help people book and pretend to be an agent, then you should have to attend MANDATORY training classes before being allowed to do so. Then if by reaching certain goals set out by CLIA or otherwise, you should be able to attend their FAMS.
ReplyDeleteFAM's are also not recreational, they are part of the learning process and you are there to work. Not bring the whole family for a cheapie vacation. I've seen this over and over. Hell one agent said she was going to the Secrets fam and bringing her kids. Secrets is an adult only resort..as a TA she claims to be, she should have known this. I've also seen fam discussions and pricing on the next, this is a big no-no, ask any supplier. But then again maybe thats why some of the suppliers kicked you to the curb.
I didn't use the internet to look up MCO.
ReplyDeleteNext question please.
Rod,
ReplyDeleteYou are hardly the one who should be cocky. You were with them for 3 years and didn't make anything, quit, and are now looking at going back. Glutton for punishment.
My question's are clear above. If travel is such an important part..why is training not mandated? Why should it be optional.?
The travel training from the Davidoffs and Mancini is helping YTB travel make enroads on the travel side of the company.
ReplyDeleteMancini's Geography Bowl at the September 12-13, 2008 YTB Funshine Travel Trade Show will spotlight the need to know this aspect of the travel industry.
That's inroads not enroads.
ReplyDeleteI was with YTB for 2 years not 3, and I made some money; albeit, it all fit in one pants pocket.
Rod, the travel training the Davidoffs and Mancini are offering will only help IF someone takes it. Can you tell me how many RTAs have actually taken this training?
ReplyDeleteExactly Ann.
ReplyDeleteThe trainings are still optional. That doesn't mean someone is going to pay the extra money to take the classes which need to be taken. THATS THE PROBLEM.
So for 2 years you were with YTB and made enough change for your pants pocket, whereas a real agent working for a true host would've easily made $90K+ without having to recruit the neighborhood. Thats a much bigger pocket to just sell travel alone no?
Unless he "dumbs it down" for YTB, this game is no walk in a park.
ReplyDeleteTell Coach to put it live online as a pay per view event to benefit his legal defense fund. I would buy a ticket to watch that.
"Where is Djibouti?"
"Right around the corner from my punani"
"What is the primary language of Hong Kong?"
"Gorillaese--oh no that is King Kong."
"How many authorized reseller of Olympic tickets are there?"
"One less than we thought."
"What does IATAN stand for?"
"Who cares?"
"If you recruit 3 people and two of those recruit 4 people, and 3 of them recruit 5 each, what is the monthly residual your great, great, great grandson will receive each month provided that the chain has not been broken or Coach has not been buried by Jerry Brown?"
"$1,567,432.32
Anne--they had 18,000 at the convention and the Davidoffs have said they saw between 750 and 1000 people throughout their time there. So that is 5% of the people in attendance, but you also need to remember that those 18K were the cream of the crop representing 4% of the Reps and RTAs.
ReplyDeleteIn the scheme of things, there were 1000 out of a potential base of 435,000 who showed an interest in travel.
Lisa, I doubt seriously that you're going to get an answer to your questions about why is the travel training optional and not mandatory. Making it mandatory goes against everything the MLM's are about.
ReplyDeleteAs far as knowledge of the travel industry, it's ins and outs, knowing what MCO stands for is relatively easy. There is a lot more stuff that one needs to know, that I would bet my last dime on that the ytber's DON'T know, but do we really want to get into a pissing match and truly expose their ignorance?
It is also important to note that not all leisure travel agents are ARC appointed or use a GDS to make bookings. There are many other systems for selling everything, including airfare. Thus this particular example would not be one that those folks, even on the TTA side, would necessarily know, or even need to know.
ReplyDeleteSteve, I completely understand and agree with that. It was just an example. But I did see a RTA who honestly thought Canada was part of the US because it was attached?? Come on now. This is my concern. These people are selling travel?..How many of them have even been outside of their home towns? How are they qualified to send anyone anywhere.
ReplyDeleteLisa, I understand your concern and agree with you. I was just pointing out that this particular example is one that a lot of trained TTA's may not know either, if they do not use a GDS. I sure hope they at least knew that MCO was the airport code for Orlando!
ReplyDeleteA better example for many of them would be to identify the different category codes for the various cruiselines, or understand the difference between all-inclusive resorts and MAP, and EP.
Well, if you want to play that game, Steve, your example with knowing the category codes etc would not be good for an agent who specializes in corporate travel. But that's another argument.
ReplyDeleteAnn, you are absolutely correct. I doubt many MLM agents are corporate specialists. :)
ReplyDeleteThe inroads will be a long haul one milestone at a time.
ReplyDelete:) But the TW report said they were 85% corporate. LOL.
ReplyDeleteOh, yeah. I forgot. So then it should be how do you exchange a ticket for a corporate client whose plans have changed. He was holding a nonrefundable ticket and now has to buy a refundable ticket. What else might you have to know in order to complete the transaction?
ReplyDeleteAnd referring the pax to the vendor is not an option.
;-)
You people are confusing the hell out of me. Even though I have been accused of being a TTA on this blog many times, I have no interest in knowing all this stuff. I never claimed to know any of the TTA language either.
ReplyDeleteSee I'm the target market for YTB people, recruit those that have no clue and just want to fork over the money. The only difference is that I'm not that dumb. I would never become involved in something I have no clue about. I would never try to sell travel to friends or family, and I sure as hell wouldn't try to "recruit" them. But thats where the money is at.
So, Scam. You mean booking travel isn't so easy a monkey can do it? I'll admit it's not rocket science, but you still need some smarts and training to do it right...
ReplyDeleteI sometimes wonder if suppliers are not reacting to this simply because ignorance on the part of the RTAs and self-bookers (in general) is actually padding their bottom lines. What they don't know won't hurt them, you know...
Knowing what an MCO is - well that's good. But do you know how to issue one? That's another story. I'm sorry to say I do know how as we prepay a lot of cars....
ReplyDeleteAn MCO is also issued for residual value on an airline exchange. Can YTB even do exchanges? If not, who issues the MCOs for their customers or do they just forget them and let the customer lose out?
Cassie - it's called "feel free to call
ReplyDelete1-800-DELTA
1-800-USAIRWAYS
1-800-UNITED
etc."
That's IF the RTA even knows there's one due and informs the client...
Ann,
ReplyDeleteI've never said booking travel is easy. I do book my own travel most of the time, though. I usually go to Disney only and I throw the free dining codes at them also. Usually I book my own travel but sometimes I book under AAA agents also like we did this year. My agent DEE is awesome. She doesn't fart around and get's me what I ask her to. I got a free dining code and sent her a email the night before it came out,and she replied the next day with my savings. Do I book under YTB agents? Not a chance in hell!
I even saved the couple across the street from my folks $521 with a code in Oct for them that they had no clue about. Their TTA didn't have a clue either. BUt once again, nothing to do with YTB.
John, you might find this interesting:
ReplyDeletehttp://americandestinations2.eventbrite.com/
http://americandestinations3.eventbrite.com/
Not really. We already proved that ADI is NOT owned by YTB. We know that they are a vendor of YTB and we know that the owners of ADI are indeed RTAs with YTB so this is completely self serving and incestuous.
ReplyDeleteAnd quite possibly in violation of the RTA agreement between the owner of ADI and YTB.
But I expect nothing less from YTB If they can crawl into bed with a relative, they are all about it! Ask Silver Meridian....Beryl Martin...or any of the many Tomers, Sorensens, Cauthens and Claggs on the payroll.
Nothing has been said about the actual "RTA" asking about having a TRAVEL AGENCY hire an RTA for experience/training. Why would any agency hire someone to merely train them and make nothing because their bookings are going somewhere else. Don't you have "supposed" travel agents on the books, can't they hire your brethern. And god forbid someone actually gets a JOB outside YTB, you shouldn't need to with the millions your all making right?
ReplyDeleteThe training is a dead end. YTB will never care their people have no training as long as Coach and the boys get paid each week. But the AG see's it, we all see it, but I'm guessing everyone else doesn't get it.
Good point, TL. I don't think they thought far enough. Why would an agency hire a YTB agent with an online booking engine, train them, only to have them quit and become a competitor? The reason for training someone is to keep them so they produce for you. Then, of course, there's the issue of, is the YTB agent going to divert bookings to their website while working for the B&M. Judging by what I've seen, I would say they wouldn't see what was wrong with that...
ReplyDeleteNo, you can be pretty sure a B&M is not going to hire someone they know is YTB. And if the YTBer does not tell them? Well, talk about being unethical...
John said...
ReplyDeleteNot really. We already proved that ADI is NOT owned by YTB. We know that they are a vendor of YTB and we know that the owners of ADI are indeed RTAs with YTB so this is completely self serving and incestuous.
And quite possibly in violation of the RTA agreement between the owner of ADI and YTB.
But I expect nothing less from YTB If they can crawl into bed with a relative, they are all about it! Ask Silver Meridian....Beryl Martin...or any of the many Tomers, Sorensens, Cauthens and Claggs on the payroll.
You're missing my point here John. Try and focus on the "Professional Travel Training". Suggestion: maybe you should talk to the owners of ADI before you make assumptions.
A couple of weeks ago, before Denyse kicked us out of her downline, we had the pleasure of perusing the YTB friends and family board. I believe you may remember a guy named Angelo who wanted to know why it was no matter how much travel he sold, he would never be made a director. Why?? Because YTB doesn't reward people for selling travel. They reward people for recruiting. How many years were they in business before they went " Gee, um maybe we should offer some real travel training or something."
ReplyDeleteThe reason that they try to recruit and want to work for, real agents is because they are again trying to buy credibility.
You can take the kid out of the trailer park, but......
1 Travel
ReplyDeleteAgain, how many attended these classes?. Were they mandated to be taken? Again at a cost to the RTA. If they are so much about travel, YTB should be providing travel training for free, not nickel and diming you all.
They do nothing to help themselves get out of the pickle they are in. You have the AG breathing down your back for 18 months now, you'd think you'd step up to the plate and PUSH the travel part. Get your people properly trained, instead of recruit, recruit, recruit.
My office gladly hires newbies. But before they are even allowed to answer a phone or book a package, they have to sit through at least 1 month of intense training on office procedures, customer service training, GDS training, TRAMs training, and depending on their preference CORPORATE or LEISURE booking procedure training. If they have no prior travel experience at all, they have to work with an agent in the office side by side for several months before being set on their own.
ReplyDeleteThey are told they are to attend any/all supplier functions/shows in the area at the time, paid for by the company. This to me is training. This is how I started, but then again I also attended travel school as well 18 years ago. Now it's part of my job to train the newbies. The retention rate in my office is 90%. We have agents here who've been with my office since it opened 35 years ago. That is loyalty. Being loyal to a company who proves you over and over you will make nothing if you don't recruit, charges you for every piece of training you need, and hides the fact that the AG is investigating for 18 months to now find they are being sued in a big way. Thats a shame. Again, if your truly interested in selling travel, and not in the recruiting aspect, then find a better host, one who will be there to help you, train you, and back you up if there is a problem.
Travel Lisa....
ReplyDeleteAmerican Destinations has trained thousands of RTAs over the years. But at the Philly/NYC trainings there were over 100 RTAs. No, the trainings are not mandatory but encouraged. By the way, ADI did away with their $199 training program about a year ago. They don't charge a cent for their training and mentorship. The charge you may be referring to was to cover the hosts expenses to rent the conference room at the hotel, etc. ADI's professional travel training, focusing on educational student travel, is NOT about recruiting.
I didnt say their training was about recruiting. But if only 100 people went, thats not many considering there are 130,000 RTA's now is it? If YTB wanted travel to be its primary money maker, then it would train its RTA's properly. Thats my point. They would be paying for their RTA's to be trained, not leaving it optional to do so.
ReplyDeleteActually, the Philly/NYC trainings were hosted by one YTB Director. It was not a company wide event. But you don't have to be a director to host an ADI training.
ReplyDelete