MLM and Travel It's No Good! YTB, TraverUs, GTI, World Ventures. All no good for the travel industry!
MLM and Travel It's No Good! YTB, TraverUs, GTI, World Ventures. All no good for the travel industry!
MLM and Travel It's No Good! YTB, TraverUs, GTI, World Ventures. All no good for the travel industry!
Wednesday, August 13, 2008
False Claims Abound
Please pay attention around minute mark 2:00. You can earn 60% of of everything that is booked on your website! Not misleading at all huh?
And I also believe this is the same guy that was talking about his boogers before! What was his name...Rufus!
This guy is gross! But keep in mind this is the FUNDAMENTAL problem with the lawsuit, etc. It is people like this that are doing the misleading and not YTB itself. Truth is, you can see right through the dishonest PEOPLE. I am sure that this guy didn't do too much with YTB considering he is no longer an RTA.
I tortured myself through that whole video. 2 minutes in, you are right JOHN, it was bad. then he went on and on about discounts, etc. He even mentioned that he didn't know some legal terms regarding the bill of rights. AND, he highlighted people's monthly earnings.
Again, it is people like THIS, not YTB, that will do anything to make a buck. I am sure you could find a representative of 1000s of companies just like this guy. Not just direct selling, or MLM, but any company. Think about how many sleazy car dealer commercials you have seen. Surely, the automakers aren't bad, just the bad people.
Josh--this is EXACTLY why the suit has merit. Are you saying that because YTB calls these people "independent" and offers little to no oversight as to what they say they are above the laws?
And the suit is against YTB and the Reps not the RTAs. The RTAs are the ones being scammed.
And he is still active. Here is his Rep site: http://www.ytb.com/Default.aspx?wa=tony1961&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1 And contact info: Tony Falasca Po Box 770943 Memphis, TN 38117 Phone: (757) 947-6254
You see, YTB does not care as long as there is recruiting going on.
Google "Falasca Travel YTB" and you will get 2 pages most of them have explicit earnings claims, several allude to them.
And I can sign up to be in his downline today....look at this link: https://joinnow.ytb.com/VerifySponsor.aspx?wa=tony1961&cc=US
So, if anyone wants to make $100,000 a month, please click the link above. There is no cost, there is no credit cared, credit or background check required. Click the link and gain access to the wonderful world of MLM and YTB. Enjoy your very own back office aqnd purchase the bogus Saturday Evening Post, the motivational videos from Coach himself, and see lists daily of how your own little mini scam is growing.
And since YTB does read this blog, I imagine that they will either redirect the URL or terminate it. Again, a reactionary company!
John, IN truth, because each person agrees to YTBs terms and conditions and YTB as an entity has done nothing illegal then yes that is what I am saying. With 300,000 reps, policing the bad apples is very difficult. I didn't say that this guy was no longer a REP, i simply commented on how his disgusting practices didn't get him anywhere as he is no longer an RTA, meaning he likely didn't want to pay 50 bucks each month anymore. But, you are right that he can still recruit, so with that said, I will be sending that email to YTB Legal, like I was going to do.
But this guy is YTB! You pay a $49.95 montly licensing fee. When you license your name and logo, you are giving that person permission to represent themselves as a part of your company. So there is no seperation between this loser and the folks in Ill. They are all YTB. And this is exactly why the lawsuit has merit.
Kate, first of all, this guys doesn't pay a monthly fee. You are correct in that you (YTB) are giving permission for someone to represent themselves as part of your company...HOWEVER....with the terms and conditions VERY CLEAR as to HOW a REP and/or RTA can provide that representation.
If that person violates those rules they will be terminated. That is PRECISELY why IMO< there is no merit to the case.
KAte, here is an example. JOHN signed up for YTB as REP....he invites his next door neighbor over to his house and makes up all kinds of stuff about YTB (WHICH HE HAPPENS TO BE GOOD AT ANYWAY) That neighbor then signs up BASED SOLELY ON WHAT JOHN TOLD HIM.
You mean to tell me that YTB should have john's house bugged to be able to police what he says?
I say no. I say that if John violated the rules, then HE should be punished. If the person ended up suffering a loss and can prove that it was based solely on what JOHN told him, then JOHN is responsible, not YTB...period.
Remember, every person that signs up as a REP or an RTA has to accept the terms and conditions. Should it be YTB's responsibility if they don't read it?
ONe of the people in the BBB article said she didn't know that she wouldn't get 60% of the total. Well, it is in the terms and conditions.
She also said she didn't know that there was a 5 day cancellation period. Well, that, too is in the terms and conditions. So, either she didn't read it, or the person who signed her up did it for her. In either case, YTB IS NOT AT FAULT. PERIOD
Well, Joe, if that were the case, then all 300,000 should be terminated from YTB and/or held individually responsible for whatever loses each of those people caused. So, the responsibility of YTB is, when made aware of misleading or illegal activities with respect to the T&C, for YTB to take necessary action.
John, nothing was proven in Florida AND rick ricketts was only found to be selling marketing materials for too high a price. He was cleared of all claims of misleading marketing etc. With respect to your other claims about what has been PROVEN, i am not specifically familiar with those cases so I won't comment
When a process is failing, and if 300,000 people are found to be representing an opportunity, there is something seriously wrong in the process that YTB presents - doesn't YTB "TRAIN" these reps?
Doesn't the fact that training is provided put some of the responsibility on YTB?
Rather than be a reactionary company, and handle each one as it is "found out", why not be a responsible organization and only allow people in who pass a background check? or some other vetting process?
If you can get a written assurance that YTB will terminate and not rehire any of the Reps that have uttered false claims regarding YTB and will disconnect their website---I will gladly give then the names, email addresses and websites of close to 1000 of them.
But they will not. Why? It is a numbers game. Right now, they are trying to decide if the numbers of retained Reps and RTAs are sufficient to see them through this legal battle.
If the numbers are sufficient, they will allow them to continue posting and saying exactly what they want.
One of the issues in Lindauers threatened suit was that YTB did away with the requirement that ALL promo and marketing needed to be approved by legal. Wonder why that was?
See that is the difference of opinion, JOE< I don't believe the process is failing. I believe that there are bad people. IN all honesty how many REPS do you think are making false claims?
Background check??? Criminal record? Bad credit?
So, if I read between the lines...do you think that someone who has served time or paid their debt to society shouldn't be given an opportunity to make a living in this country in the way that they would choose providing the opportunity is legal of course?
I have been in YTB since 2006 and the T&C said that all marketing materials, at that time and NOW, have to be approved. Go read them, you agreed to them after all
"In all honesty how many REPS do you think are making false claims?"
Based on my personal experience, and just the fact that there are 300,000 reps, it wouldn't surprise me if there are roughly 3,000 making false claims - thats 1%.
Well i suppose if i was to have someone handle credit card processing then perhaps. But, as I am sure you are aware, that that is not something YTB RTAs and/or REPS are allowed or even set up to do.
By the way, I viewed the video at the top 3 or 4 times this morning and I notice that the video has had a TOTAL of 85 views in 11 months.
Joe, as bad as that number may sound because it is 3,000 people, truth is that 1% is a low percentage when you consider how many bad people there are out there.
I haven't seen the studies but it wouldn't surprise me if there are over 35 million people in this country alone that are "bad". That's 10%
But, the good 297,000 REPS and RTAs should do their part to report the bad 3,000
So, now that we have established that there are 297,000 acceptable REPS and RTAs lets try to move forward with that.
Josh--so because the video was not viewed that much it is ok?
Joe--I think you are way under on the 1%. Exaggerations are expected and I believe encouraged. I was at several presentations and Donald Bradley (a Level 2 Director) was one of the most guilty. Even Scott Tomer alluded to it although he did not state it at the Founder's Tour.
Josh--you don't get it. YTB can say it, but till they walk the walk they are responsible.
There are laws about driving while intoxicated. Many many people do. I have done it myself. But you know what, if I get into a wreck while drunk, do you know who has some (not all) liability? The person or the business that sold me the drinks.
Where is the difference. In this case no one is dying or property being damaged, but you do have 300,000+ people out there preying on people for $500 and $50 a month promising the dream. If YTB is so responsible, why have they not done anything about this Tony Falasca since I first posted about him on October 27, 2007? They don't care. As long as he is recruiting and people are paying $50 a month he can say whatever he wants. When the heat is on, they will react.
YTB is not responsible for this guy, according to the terms and conditions, so the law suit has no merit.
Any sales or commissions generated by this guy were included in the company's sales and revenue. But he is not a part of YTB. Just his money was??
You can't have your cake and eat it too. If they were counting his sales and commissions as part of the sales and commissions for the company, then he is a part of YTB.
John, bad analogy with driving under the influence as to who is responsible. The selling party would ONLY be responsible if you were drinking in the presense of said party AND at a point where it was deemed too much. If you buy a bottle of scotch at a liquor store and go drink it behind the building then get in a car and kill someone, the liquor store has no liability.
If you are sitting at a bar and have one drink and then go kill someone with your car, the bartender may be questioned but if he/she only served you one drink then eventually it will be determined that he/she wasn't responsible. Now if that bartender keeps serving and serving eventually the responsibility shifts from the individual to the bartender.
YTB is selling the closed bottle of scotch and it is up to the individual to "selland tell" responsibly.
Kate, You don't follow my logic...or any logic for that matter. Go read the terms and conditions they are very clear. YTB is not responsible for what this guys SAYS....HE IS. With that said, if he is in gross violation of the T&C and YTB knows about it, then YTB is resposible for taking action. I typed that slowly, I hope you understand.
Josh said: "if he is in gross violation of the T&C and YTB knows about it, then YTB is responsible for taking action."
IF YTB knows about it, and is therefore responsible for taking action, and YTB does nothing, then aren't they responsible if this REP continues with his false claims and continues to recruit with misleading claims?
You're telling me in this case that YTB is the bartender and sees the client getting drunk (rep presenting false claims) and is doing nothing.....
Actually, and this is a key point, you said "if he is in gross violation of the T&C and YTB knows about it, then YTB is RESPONSIBLE for taking action." - responsible being the key word.
If they are responsible for taking action on bad reps and they don't, then the lawsuits that have been filed, IMHO, have a lot of merit.
Josh, you can be as condesending as you would like, but it's not going to change anything. And it says a lot about what kind of person you are. YTB admitted that they were in talks with the CA AG for 18 months prior to their office taking action, which means that they were aware there was a problem and refused to comply, just as they have refused to comply with IATAN. Believe what ever the hell makes you feel better about this Josh. YTB is riddled with ethics issues. If you wish to defend them, that is your choice.
It is amazing to me that some have the audacity to accuse someone else of being condescending and then stating that is tells about the kind of person that person is. Really? Yet these are the same people that lie about being RTA's and hacking into private boards to do "research". I have found many many times that I forget about the plank in my own eye.
You did John and you know it. The board you commented to me on then disappeared. The board specifically said you must be an RTA and that is why you were deleted. You along as a couple of others.
"Josh, you can be as condesending as you would like . . .
LOL!
Kate preaching about being condesending?
Condesending is Kate's middle name.
Another inaccuracy by the anti-YTB blogger himself, John Frenaye -
"One of the issues in Lindauers threatened suit was that YTB did away with the requirement that ALL promo and marketing needed to be approved by legal. Wonder why that was?"
Absolutely not true.
It has been and IS a requirement and stressed continually by YTB Corporate.
Not really Josh--it said you needed to be in YTB and you needed to provide your YTB URL. I was and I did. And the powers that be let me in and when you complained they banned me.
So how is that lying? How is that hacking?
Is that why you frequent here, because we will let you speak your mind?
Section D Point 1 It is clear from my review of YTB companies' promotional materials that promotional materials are not being reviewed by knowledgeable legal counsel prior to their publication.
A teenager goes out and vandalizes a neighbors house, who is responsible the teenager or the teenager's parents for damage. The parents had no idea their child did this, but they are responsible as it is their responsibility to teach their child right from wrong.
What about Mark? Mark said his name was Mike Matthews. And Mark Matthews. He lied so should I hold you guilty by association like you hold all YTB and affiliates with those that break the rules.
Well now you are talking about children who under the legal system have a party responsible for them. If the teenanger is 18, then the parents ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE> Also, YTB T&C specifically says you have to be 18, and adult, RESPONSIBLE FOR THEMSELVES... another bad analogy JOHN
9. I will not promote my Rep business nor use the YTB name, trade names, logos, sales materials, trademarks or service marks of YourTravelBiz.com, Inc. or of any affiliated YTB company, except in websites, sales and training materials provided, or approved by YTB. The term “sales and training materials” includes but is not limited to written, audio, CD, DVD, and flash materials and presentations. I understand that unauthorized use or duplication of names, marks, trademarks or copyrighted materials in a violation of federal law and will result in termination of Rep status. 10. I shall utilize only those sales materials (websites, forms, and sales, training materials, etc) provided to me by YTB until I have achieved 30 active RTAs sold by me and or by my Rep downline, after which I may create and/or utilize sales materials of my own choice providing that each such item that I create or utilize shall bear a current a unexpired YTB Registration Number. To obtain a YTB Registration Number all, sales materials must be submitted to and approved by the YTB Legal and Regulatory Departments (legal support@ytb.com).
Again . . . Here's John Frenaye's statement:
"One of the issues in Lindauers threatened suit was that YTB did away with the requirement that ALL promo and marketing needed to be approved by legal. Wonder why that was?"
Pretty obvious that YTB did not do away "with the requirement that ALL promo and marketing needed to be approved by legal."
Well I have heard time and time again that you can sign up your children into your downline. Donald Bradley told me that at a meeting in Columbia MD in November.
Again, what is required and what is done are two separate things
Well if you are basing your argument on that agreement, good luck to you. If you need the AG telephone number it is in the press release. Just give them a call and let them know what you found.
You simply do not get it. YTB has that in their to hopefully save their collective asses. They do not (in reality) require people to abide by it and in fact they encourage people to ignore it. UNTIL they are caught!
I have never heard that you can sign up your children and I can certainly say it's nowhere in writing. If someone does that then they are wrong. I was told you can't even sign up your spouse because you can only have one per household per the rules.
YTB encourages people to ignore the rules? That is a truly ignorant statement. I have been to the home office numerous times and spoken to the founders and the executives and I have never heard them imply or say anything of that sort.
I believe what Donald Bradley said is that you can EMPLOY your children. I've heard him say that. And that is true. The IRS allows one to employ children, I believe 13 and older, in a home-based business and pay them a small salary. Documented activities of course.
In order to SIGN UP IN THE BUSINESS, one must be at least 18 years old.
What are you "employing" them to do? Your a website or your a recruiter. Does he pass out business cards at the soccer game. What exactly do you employ your children to do, so that you can write them off on your taxes.
Donald Bradley said he even signed up his own kids so they could have their own travel stores.
IMHO, I was at the meeting and I heard him say it.
I am not saying he does not change the spiel around, but he said that just before saying he envisioned that in the future every member of a family from babies to grannies would all have their YTB travel store to book their own travel and save money.
There are specific rules for employing your children for ALL home-based business. You too can do it if you are working out of your house.
http://www.april15.com/article_children.html
You can actually employ child 7 to 18. There are very strict rules to follow too. Lisa if your tax professional has not told you about those deductions then they don't know home-based business.
"What are you "employing" them to do? Your a website or your a recruiter. Does he pass out business cards at the soccer game. What exactly do you employ your children to do, so that you can write them off on your taxes."
You know there are many things you can employ a child to do:
Many children are good at computers; they can design flyers
That's a great article firemedic. Now they're acting like "YTB" is committing a crime by employing children. That is an allowable practice by the IRS. What you employ them to do is based on their age and skill level, but it helps you and the child.
Thanks for the tax suggestions, but I prefer not to pimp my children out just so I can save a few bucks on my taxes.
I have no need for my children to answer my phones, design my flyers, or pass out my business cards. Thats WHAT I GET PAID TO DO. Its called WORK!!!!
IMO its completely UNPROFESSIONAL to have a child answering a business line (sorry Mommy can't come to the phone right now), or loiter people or cars with flyers or cards.
Lisa it is your choice on how much in taxes you pay. If you choose to not take advantage of legal tax deductions then there is no reason for the government not to take it. I suggest you read Ron Meullers book call "It's not how much you make but how much you keep". But hey, I am with YTB so I might be lying to you. Can't trust those rascally YTB affiliates. LOL.
What's this one per houshold stuff? YTBites everywhere are saying how they broght cynic hubby into the biz.
Lisa - there is nothing wrong with child labor. Millions of the pre-teen set are working full time all around the world. If Ma and Pa want to pay for their sites well - good to go. Then Joey will be one of their downline and maybe Ma and Pa won't have to pay for Ma and Pa. This is a strong argument for having lots and lots of kiddies. YTb can help you afford them!
Again, I do not care what you think of me, call me, etc etc. You mean nothing to me at all. Am I mentored by Michael Moore, no, but the quote so far as I have seen lately, is true. Sorry if you take that to heart.
My sales are far from low, actually having a great month, thanks for asking. I just know how to multi-task. And if I post on any blogs, I usually do so while on hold with the airlines or another vendor. Thanks for your concern.
LOL at the drunken sailor comment. Honey, just because your wife is all primm and proper (assuming you have one) doesn't mean I have to be. I don't think my children are reading scam.com (I know they aren't) and I haven't used any ==really== bad words. Hell most of the ones I use are not even on George Carlins list.
Move on little man, if you think your comments are going to upset me, break me down, make me cry..boohoo..your horribly mistaken.
No, no. I wasn't saying pre-teen or teenage kids should not work. I simply meant I am not putting my 7 year old to work answering my phones. They should get JOBS, out of the home, working and getting a glimpse of what the REAL WORLD is about. I'm not quite sure that passing out flyers or business cards is going to get them that. Unless of course they aspire to be in an MLM like mom and pop.
A few things... JOhn, I don't know Donald Bradley, but could he have adult children? Rick Ricketts son is a level 2 director. His son is not a 12 year old at home. He is an adult. Second, you can deduct reasonable expenses of "employing" your children for specific tasks. With a home based business, you could have your children clean your office before hosting an event, your children could post flyers or hand them out, and yes at the soccer field. Me personally, my oldest is only 8 and I wouldn't have him do anything like that as he is too young. And, frankly, I wouldn't want an 8 year olds method of cleaning up prior to an event, but you can bet if my son were 12, 13, 14 he would do some 'work' and get paid.
John, again, so now you admit that YTB has rules but "they encourage people to break them???? That's rich. Since you are all about proof, care to back that claim up?
Lisa - how cute it is when a 5 year old answers your business phone. Come on - people LOVE it when Joey answers cause it's just so darn cute and it must mean you are a good parent for including your children in your business. I'm training my cat to do ticket exchanges and he's getting to be really good at shredding the stored fare info. Sure I'm just asking for a debit memo but I'll deduct that from my taxes as training errors. Fits (el gato negro) has an SS so it's all above board.
You have to love when two people in the know oppose each other. One says one per household and the other says my wife signed me up. Which is is fellas? In this corner Josh and in that corner firemedic. Ding ding!
Josh, they write the rules but talk a different talk. I am not saying it is Coach or Scott or Kim (although I did hear Scott skirt it a little in February). But the directors and the reps that are out there recruiting are not complying.
I mean right here, you tell me that I can recruit my spouse. Firemedic tells me I can't. Two recruiters both supposedly ethical and both telling a completely different story.
"Thanks for the tax suggestions, but I prefer not to pimp my children out just so I can save a few bucks on my taxes.
I have no need for my children to answer my phones, design my flyers, or pass out my business cards. Thats WHAT I GET PAID TO DO. Its called WORK!!!!
IMO its completely UNPROFESSIONAL to have a child answering a business line (sorry Mommy can't come to the phone right now), or loiter people or cars with flyers or cards."
LOL.....That's absolutely your preference. As I said, based on their age and skill level. There must not be any desire to teach your children business practices.
This summer I had my 6 year old granddaughter "working" by selling lemonade. And I KNOW many kids get a start by doing that. She was able to learn how to "work", the business of cash flow, what do with the cash once its made, how to save/pay tithes, and customer service. The money was sent back home with her and her mom used some for school supplies and put the rest in the bank. She was so proud she was able to contribute to her school supplies. So its definitely a benefit to the child. I don't call it pimping the child out, I call it teaching them to be responsible members of society in many ways.
AND NO, THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH MY TRAVEL BUSINESS!! You can't employ grandchildren.
"My sales are far from low, actually having a great month, thanks for asking. I just know how to multi-task. And if I post on any blogs, I usually do so while on hold with the airlines or another vendor."
It's very funny you can do that and I CAN'T. I've been accused of not doing anything but writing on blogs and forums. Well I can multi-task also.
Did you guys read what i said, my wife was presented the business and signed me up "AS HER SECONDARY" we have ONE WEBSITE WE ARE ONE RTA> LETS LEARN TO READ PEOPLE>
"I mean right here, you tell me that I can recruit my spouse. Firemedic tells me I can't. Two recruiters both supposedly ethical and both telling a completely different story."
John you're actually using the wrong terminology. One does not RECRUIT their spouse. A business has a primary applicant and a secondary applicant. It's ONE business...not a downline. My husband works with me in my business as my secondary. There are not separate checks.....there is ONE income.
Many times I have spoken to someone interested and told them to go home and get there "spouse on board" so that they both are on the same page working together. It is true you can only have ONE PER household. In fact I have an RTA in my downline who's brother is temporarily living with them while his house is being built (he luckily sold his house sooner than thought so has about 9 months without a home) Since his address is the same, it wouldn't let him sign up. He has to wait until he moves.
Just because I do not want my 7 year old answering my phone and making me look completely unprofessional..that means I don't teach my children business practices? Your joking right. My son knows more about the travel industry then most of the RTA's I've seen so far. He probably knows more airport codes then most of them too. That being said, I'd prefer if my child at ages 7 and 1-1/2 were actually children not slave labor. If he wants to run a lemonade stand, I tell him go for it, he wants to help with household chores (mainly his room) he gets paid for it. But I refuse to have my children sitting in the driveway or going to his baseball games passing out my business card or tacking flyers on peoples cars to drum up business. That's just wrong.
As for your being able to multi-task, I've never once stated you could/couldn't do otherwise. Most women have to in this day in age. For Mix to ASSUME I sit here all day and do nothing but post on blogs is funny. I need something to amuse me while I'm on hold, but he wouldn't know that because you book thru a website, I do not..my GDS's are front and center..I deal with the suppliers, clients directly. I don't REFER!
"Oh, one other thing, my wife put me in the business by making me her secondary and we work the biz together."
Joshie pooh you are a lying sack of shit you know that. You were on another thread going on and on about how YOU got into YTB so the wifey could stay home with the kids. No mention of her in your downline or in the biz. You spouted off about the extra income and how wifey pooh goes to the Spa while you stay home with the kiddies. I think you are a fraud, a con and a cheat. You don't have a job cause you are here all day. Sounds like the wifey has your you know what wrapped around her finger in another words Joshie you are a weinie and a kept man.
Lisa, I wouldn't want a 7 year old answering my phones either. AGAIN, I said age-appropriate duties. What part of that are you not getting?? But a 13 could certainly answer a call and take a message appropriately. Tell me you've never marketed to everyone you know that you have a travel business?? Sure you have....even your son's baseball parents.
I never said YOU said anything about what I do, but it HAS been said. It's also wrong to ASSUME that I only refer. I'm sitting here right now making arrangements for a group cruise. Referring is NOT my only job in this business.
Oh kitty kitty kitty. She was the one approached.....she placed ME as her secondary. We decided together....to work this biz so she wouldn't have to go back to work. She went to a spa one day. Nothing has changed. I work 2 days a week from 4 to noon. and 2 others from 2 until midnight.
But, thanks for your concern. No need for me to point out kitty's maturity. Read for yourself.
Since these comments don't have an edit, i have to make another post, but WE got into YTB so SHE wouldn't have to go back to work. That doesn't mean that she doesn't work our YTB biz. I don't know why I need to explain this to you, but I do anyway.
I have never heard that you can sign up your children and I can certainly say it's nowhere in writing. If someone does that then they are wrong. I was told you can't even sign up your spouse because you can only have one per household per the rules.
An acquaintance of mine signed up with YTB, and then signed up their (then) 17 year old daughter (she's now 19) ... they each had their own URL, and same home address.
"An acquaintance of mine signed up with YTB, and then signed up their (then) 17 year old daughter (she's now 19) ... they each had their own URL, and same home address."
Yea, I'm not quite sure about the address because I also signed up my daughter who was living with me at that time. The system WILL kick back what's incorrect.
Hey Denyse, If YTB is so freaking great, and you really do get all this fantastic training, then what's with this post that you made on another board??
Hi, I have a teammate who is looking for a part time job in the travel industry to get more experience. Does anyone know any places that will hire in an office (B&M) an unexperienced person who has purchased an online agency?
I think its self explanatory. She's just starting out in this industry and is looking to work for an experienced agency on a part time basis. She wants to advance her experience. Training is not experience.
First time I have checked in today and I can't believe it. Signing your kids up for your down line? Deducting them for doing YTB work? You people really are pathetic. And, you think there is nothing wrong with this picture? Amazing to me how you all keep defending the Coach and the company. It's like watching the Titanic go down. If I were you all I would spend a little less time on-line and start doing a serious job search.
LOL......funny. You all just sit here lurking around trying to find the next thing to talk about regarding YTB. I've booked two group cruises TODAY. Hope you all have done as well! :)
Denyse if you were so dog gone rich why are you still living in the inner city? I would think with all your money you and your Rev. hubby would be building a Church to rival Joel Osteen's......Please.
As to hosts hiring you I hear Coral Sands is hiring new agents...
I'll help her IMHO - but be forewarned - she'll dump the online agency before the first week is out when she finds out just how much she can make selling travel without a rinky dink website like YTBs. A GDS, a phone and email is all one needs. Oh yeah and experience. After one year - her income vs yours will look like the Queen Elizabeth vs a dory.
Exactly. With the massive salary you are now taking in by booking with YTB, why are you still living in Crack Central? The violent crime statistics in the city are higher then all of NJ itself.
Why would any B&M hire some one with YTB that is just interested in staying long enough to get experience and then steal clients?? Why is this person not able to get experience booking on their own? Why is their upline not able to help them? A real travel agency will not give this person any experience in refering or recruiting anyway. So what would be the point except to steal clients?
"Denyse if you were so dog gone rich why are you still living in the inner city? I would think with all your money you and your Rev. hubby would be building a Church to rival Joel Osteen's......Please."
I've addressed that before. Apparently you all don't know anything about ministry. We live where the church is. We are accessible to the people. Everyone in ministry doesn't have to live outside of the city like Osteen, Dollar, etc. But I'll tell you the house I live in costs close to $500,000.
That is exactly the problem with traditional business models. You take the risk of creating your own competition. In networking you don't. But I am sure you TTA's have something to say about that. You are in the "S" category of the cashflow quadrant. We are in the "B". If you don't know what I am talking about then read "Rich Dad, Poor Dad".
IMHO you own them nothing. Don't try to explain it because they only look to bring you down and try to shame you. This way they feel better about themselves.
"Why would any B&M hire some one with YTB that is just interested in staying long enough to get experience and then steal clients?? Why is this person not able to get experience booking on their own? Why is their upline not able to help them? A real travel agency will not give this person any experience in refering or recruiting anyway. So what would be the point except to steal clients?"
Thanks for your concern Autumn, but she DID locate a B&M willing to hire her.
"Exactly. With the massive salary you are now taking in by booking with YTB, why are you still living in Crack Central? The violent crime statistics in the city are higher then all of NJ itself."
Let me also say I really don't like it when someone degrades where I live. When you speak of "crack central", being in politics I can tell you that many of the "crack purchasers" are coming from OUTSIDE of this city from cities like yours and other SUBURBAN areas. And I'm assuming you live in a suburban area since you're degrading the inner city.
But that has nothing to do with travel. My last comment.
"I wonder if she told them of her plans and intentions??"
Autumn, what would you know about her plans if you don't even know her!!!! This is really asinine. You all say the dumbest things - anything because of YTB. I tell you - as stupid as you all THINK YTB RTAs are, I would rather have them book any vacation of mine than to let you all have any of my dollars.
Great marketing guys!! I hope none of your travel clients read this.
firemedic: I know. I wonder if they'd disown someone in their family if they decided to become a part of a travel/MLM. It doesn't even have to be YTB - any of them. Wow.
Well either she is going to keep her travel website and is just using the agency for experience, which is what you said, in which time she would leave to work her YTB business. Or she is planning to dump YTB and stay at the B&M. Either way I find it hard to believe a B&M would hire her knowing since this is a conflict of interest.
Assume what you will or may since you will anyway. She asked me to put out feelers which is what I did. I neither have the time nor interest to go into any further details about her life. Everyone has their own motives for what they do. How does that make any money for you????
If a B&M hired her, that's their decision. I believe the B&M owner is also a part of YTB; that's how I was introduced to them.
"But I'll tell you the house I live in costs close to $500,000."
A 500,000 house in the crack city. ROTFLMAO at that comment. Come on Denyse. Get real. I don't know any inner city ministers that live in that kind of a house and most ministers I know with the exception of the TV ones live very modestly....You are so full of it it ain't funny..
"A 500,000 house in the crack city. ROTFLMAO at that comment. Come on Denyse. Get real. I don't know any inner city ministers that live in that kind of a house and most ministers I know with the exception of the TV ones live very modestly....You are so full of it it ain't funny.."
Do you know me??????? Remember, its a crack city servicing the suburbs. If you know anything about Paterson (and I assume you do), you know about the Eastside. Look up the value of the homes if its that important to you. This home is not worth $500,000 but that's the value in the market. There are houses in this neighborhood way past that. I'm in a cheap house. Its also NJ where property is sky high. My home in MD costs less than this house and was better.
I lived in Clifton most of my life. I know Paterson probably better then you do. My friends and alot of family still live in NJ. I moved out of NJ for a better quality of life for my kids. The school systems were horribly overcrowded and the crime was rampant. I decided instead of spending $350,000 on a house I would have had to burn down because it was such crap, I would move to PA and spend that on a brand new house on acres of land. Hardly ANY crime, no gang violence, and no crack dealers on every corner.
Wether the BUYERS of crack are coming from the outside is irrelevant. The DEALERS are in Paterson, the crime is in Paterson, the neighborhoods are horrible and its one of the worst cities in NJ. I find it extremely hard to believe that if you were making all the boo-koo bucks you claim, that you'd still want to live in that type of town, regardless if you husband is a minister or not.
Back to the subject of the video on this post...I have a question.
John pointed this guy out months ago. YTB reads this blog. If they actually were concerned with eliminating erroneous messages - this video would have been forced to be removed (they could have petitioned YouTube themselves).
So - since it was not removed - you have to assume that it was defacto "approved" by YTB.
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This guy is gross!
ReplyDeleteBut keep in mind this is the FUNDAMENTAL problem with the lawsuit, etc. It is people like this that are doing the misleading and not YTB itself. Truth is, you can see right through the dishonest PEOPLE. I am sure that this guy didn't do too much with YTB considering he is no longer an RTA.
I tortured myself through that whole video. 2 minutes in, you are right JOHN, it was bad. then he went on and on about discounts, etc.
He even mentioned that he didn't know some legal terms regarding the bill of rights. AND, he highlighted people's monthly earnings.
Again, it is people like THIS, not YTB, that will do anything to make a buck.
I am sure you could find a representative of 1000s of companies just like this guy. Not just direct selling, or MLM, but any company. Think about how many sleazy car dealer commercials you have seen. Surely, the automakers aren't bad, just the bad people.
This, IMO< is why the lawsuits have no MERIT.
Josh--this is EXACTLY why the suit has merit. Are you saying that because YTB calls these people "independent" and offers little to no oversight as to what they say they are above the laws?
ReplyDeleteAnd the suit is against YTB and the Reps not the RTAs. The RTAs are the ones being scammed.
And he is still active. Here is his Rep site:
http://www.ytb.com/Default.aspx?wa=tony1961&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
And contact info:
Tony Falasca
Po Box 770943
Memphis, TN 38117
Phone: (757) 947-6254
You see, YTB does not care as long as there is recruiting going on.
Google "Falasca Travel YTB" and you will get 2 pages most of them have explicit earnings claims, several allude to them.
And I can sign up to be in his downline today....look at this link:
https://joinnow.ytb.com/VerifySponsor.aspx?wa=tony1961&cc=US
So, if anyone wants to make $100,000 a month, please click the link above. There is no cost, there is no credit cared, credit or background check required. Click the link and gain access to the wonderful world of MLM and YTB. Enjoy your very own back office aqnd purchase the bogus Saturday Evening Post, the motivational videos from Coach himself, and see lists daily of how your own little mini scam is growing.
And since YTB does read this blog, I imagine that they will either redirect the URL or terminate it. Again, a reactionary company!
John,
ReplyDeleteIN truth, because each person agrees to YTBs terms and conditions and YTB as an entity has done nothing illegal then yes that is what I am saying. With 300,000 reps, policing the bad apples is very difficult. I didn't say that this guy was no longer a REP, i simply commented on how his disgusting practices didn't get him anywhere as he is no longer an RTA, meaning he likely didn't want to pay 50 bucks each month anymore.
But, you are right that he can still recruit, so with that said, I will be sending that email to YTB Legal, like I was going to do.
I am not sure if he was ever a RTA. I did not watch the entire video, but while I understand all about being an IMR, the company does has liability.
ReplyDeleteEspecially when the claims reach the level that they have.
Go search Craigslist, YouTube, MySpace, FaceBook.
If YTB terminated all those that made false claims (as they should) there would be very few IMRs and they know that.
That is the corporate malfeasance! No recruiting...no money. So they turn a blind eye to the infractions and react accordingly only when caught.
It has been prpven time and time again. RCCL, IATAN, the Olympics, California the first time, Canada, Rhode Island, Florida and Rick Ricketts...
But this guy is YTB! You pay a $49.95 montly licensing fee. When you license your name and logo, you are giving that person permission to represent themselves as a part of your company. So there is no seperation between this loser and the folks in Ill. They are all YTB. And this is exactly why the lawsuit has merit.
ReplyDeleteKate, first of all, this guys doesn't pay a monthly fee. You are correct in that you (YTB) are giving permission for someone to represent themselves as part of your company...HOWEVER....with the terms and conditions VERY CLEAR as to HOW a REP and/or RTA can provide that representation.
ReplyDeleteIf that person violates those rules they will be terminated.
That is PRECISELY why IMO< there is no merit to the case.
KAte,
ReplyDeletehere is an example. JOHN signed up for YTB as REP....he invites his next door neighbor over to his house and makes up all kinds of stuff about YTB (WHICH HE HAPPENS TO BE GOOD AT ANYWAY) That neighbor then signs up BASED SOLELY ON WHAT JOHN TOLD HIM.
You mean to tell me that YTB should have john's house bugged to be able to police what he says?
I say no. I say that if John violated the rules, then HE should be punished. If the person ended up suffering a loss and can prove that it was based solely on what JOHN told him, then JOHN is responsible, not YTB...period.
Remember, every person that signs up as a REP or an RTA has to accept the terms and conditions. Should it be YTB's responsibility if they don't read it?
ONe of the people in the BBB article said she didn't know that she wouldn't get 60% of the total. Well, it is in the terms and conditions.
She also said she didn't know that there was a 5 day cancellation period. Well, that, too is in the terms and conditions. So, either she didn't read it, or the person who signed her up did it for her. In either case, YTB IS NOT AT FAULT. PERIOD
Josh,
ReplyDeleteSo, what you are saying, is that if ALL 300,000 REPS were found to be presenting false claims that YTB has no legal responsibility?
In your mind, at what point IS YTB responsible?
Well, Joe, if that were the case, then all 300,000 should be terminated from YTB and/or held individually responsible for whatever loses each of those people caused.
ReplyDeleteSo, the responsibility of YTB is, when made aware of misleading or illegal activities with respect to the T&C, for YTB to take necessary action.
John, nothing was proven in Florida AND rick ricketts was only found to be selling marketing materials for too high a price. He was cleared of all claims of misleading marketing etc.
ReplyDeleteWith respect to your other claims about what has been PROVEN, i am not specifically familiar with those cases so I won't comment
Kool-aid speak Josh.
ReplyDeleteWhen a process is failing, and if 300,000 people are found to be representing an opportunity, there is something seriously wrong in the process that YTB presents - doesn't YTB "TRAIN" these reps?
Doesn't the fact that training is provided put some of the responsibility on YTB?
Rather than be a reactionary company, and handle each one as it is "found out", why not be a responsible organization and only allow people in who pass a background check? or some other vetting process?
Josh--
ReplyDeleteIf you can get a written assurance that YTB will terminate and not rehire any of the Reps that have uttered false claims regarding YTB and will disconnect their website---I will gladly give then the names, email addresses and websites of close to 1000 of them.
But they will not. Why? It is a numbers game. Right now, they are trying to decide if the numbers of retained Reps and RTAs are sufficient to see them through this legal battle.
If the numbers are sufficient, they will allow them to continue posting and saying exactly what they want.
One of the issues in Lindauers threatened suit was that YTB did away with the requirement that ALL promo and marketing needed to be approved by legal. Wonder why that was?
See that is the difference of opinion, JOE< I don't believe the process is failing. I believe that there are bad people. IN all honesty how many REPS do you think are making false claims?
ReplyDeleteBackground check??? Criminal record? Bad credit?
So, if I read between the lines...do you think that someone who has served time or paid their debt to society shouldn't be given an opportunity to make a living in this country in the way that they would choose providing the opportunity is legal of course?
I have been in YTB since 2006 and the T&C said that all marketing materials, at that time and NOW, have to be approved. Go read them, you agreed to them after all
ReplyDeleteMANY of the travel hosting companies ask, as a matter of procedure, if you have ever been convicted of a crime.
ReplyDeleteI believe this is done since it is possible for the agent to have access to client credit card information - or even large sums of cash.
If you were an agency owner, wouldn't you do the same thing?
"In all honesty how many REPS do you think are making false claims?"
ReplyDeleteBased on my personal experience, and just the fact that there are 300,000 reps, it wouldn't surprise me if there are roughly 3,000 making false claims - thats 1%.
Well i suppose if i was to have someone handle credit card processing then perhaps. But, as I am sure you are aware, that that is not something YTB RTAs and/or REPS are allowed or even set up to do.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, I viewed the video at the top 3 or 4 times this morning and I notice that the video has had a TOTAL of 85 views in 11 months.
"as I am sure you are aware, that that is not something YTB RTAs and/or REPS are allowed or even set up to do."
ReplyDeleteI'm aware, but it hasn't stopped some from doing it and defrauding customers, has it?
and yes, I know that it happens to TTA's too.
Joe, as bad as that number may sound because it is 3,000 people, truth is that 1% is a low percentage when you consider how many bad people there are out there.
ReplyDeleteI haven't seen the studies but it wouldn't surprise me if there are over 35 million people in this country alone that are "bad".
That's 10%
But, the good 297,000 REPS and RTAs should do their part to report the bad 3,000
So, now that we have established that there are 297,000 acceptable REPS and RTAs lets try to move forward with that.
Josh--so because the video was not viewed that much it is ok?
ReplyDeleteJoe--I think you are way under on the 1%. Exaggerations are expected and I believe encouraged. I was at several presentations and Donald Bradley (a Level 2 Director) was one of the most guilty. Even Scott Tomer alluded to it although he did not state it at the Founder's Tour.
Josh--you don't get it. YTB can say it, but till they walk the walk they are responsible.
There are laws about driving while intoxicated. Many many people do. I have done it myself. But you know what, if I get into a wreck while drunk, do you know who has some (not all) liability? The person or the business that sold me the drinks.
Where is the difference. In this case no one is dying or property being damaged, but you do have 300,000+ people out there preying on people for $500 and $50 a month promising the dream. If YTB is so responsible, why have they not done anything about this Tony Falasca since I first posted about him on October 27, 2007? They don't care. As long as he is recruiting and people are paying $50 a month he can say whatever he wants. When the heat is on, they will react.
Josh, let me make sure I follow your logic...
ReplyDeleteYTB is not responsible for this guy, according to the terms and conditions, so the law suit has no merit.
Any sales or commissions generated by this guy were included in the company's sales and revenue. But he is not a part of YTB. Just his money was??
You can't have your cake and eat it too. If they were counting his sales and commissions as part of the sales and commissions for the company, then he is a part of YTB.
John, bad analogy with driving under the influence as to who is responsible. The selling party would ONLY be responsible if you were drinking in the presense of said party AND at a point where it was deemed too much.
ReplyDeleteIf you buy a bottle of scotch at a liquor store and go drink it behind the building then get in a car and kill someone, the liquor store has no liability.
If you are sitting at a bar and have one drink and then go kill someone with your car, the bartender may be questioned but if he/she only served you one drink then eventually it will be determined that he/she wasn't responsible. Now if that bartender keeps serving and serving eventually the responsibility shifts from the individual to the bartender.
YTB is selling the closed bottle of scotch and it is up to the individual to "selland tell" responsibly.
Kate,
ReplyDeleteYou don't follow my logic...or any logic for that matter.
Go read the terms and conditions they are very clear. YTB is not responsible for what this guys SAYS....HE IS. With that said, if he is in gross violation of the T&C and YTB knows about it, then YTB is resposible for taking action. I typed that slowly, I hope you understand.
Josh said: "if he is in gross violation of the T&C and YTB knows about it, then YTB is responsible for taking action."
ReplyDeleteIF YTB knows about it, and is therefore responsible for taking action, and YTB does nothing, then aren't they responsible if this REP continues with his false claims and continues to recruit with misleading claims?
You're telling me in this case that YTB is the bartender and sees the client getting drunk (rep presenting false claims) and is doing nothing.....
In my hypothetical I believe that YTB should take action of some kind IF they know about it.
ReplyDeleteActually, and this is a key point, you said "if he is in gross violation of the T&C and YTB knows about it, then YTB is RESPONSIBLE for taking action." - responsible being the key word.
ReplyDeleteIf they are responsible for taking action on bad reps and they don't, then the lawsuits that have been filed, IMHO, have a lot of merit.
Josh, you can be as condesending as you would like, but it's not going to change anything. And it says a lot about what kind of person you are.
ReplyDeleteYTB admitted that they were in talks with the CA AG for 18 months prior to their office taking action, which means that they were aware there was a problem and refused to comply, just as they have refused to comply with IATAN.
Believe what ever the hell makes you feel better about this Josh. YTB is riddled with ethics issues. If you wish to defend them, that is your choice.
It is amazing to me that some have the audacity to accuse someone else of being condescending and then stating that is tells about the kind of person that person is. Really? Yet these are the same people that lie about being RTA's and hacking into private boards to do "research". I have found many many times that I forget about the plank in my own eye.
ReplyDeletefiremedic--who has lied about being an RTA and hacked into a private board?
ReplyDeleteYou did John and you know it. The board you commented to me on then disappeared. The board specifically said you must be an RTA and that is why you were deleted. You along as a couple of others.
ReplyDeletekate said -
ReplyDelete"Josh, you can be as condesending as you would like . . .
LOL!
Kate preaching about being condesending?
Condesending is Kate's middle name.
Another inaccuracy by the anti-YTB blogger himself, John Frenaye -
"One of the issues in Lindauers threatened suit was that YTB did away with the requirement that ALL promo and marketing needed to be approved by legal. Wonder why that was?"
Absolutely not true.
It has been and IS a requirement and stressed continually by YTB Corporate.
Not really Josh--it said you needed to be in YTB and you needed to provide your YTB URL. I was and I did. And the powers that be let me in and when you complained they banned me.
ReplyDeleteSo how is that lying? How is that hacking?
Is that why you frequent here, because we will let you speak your mind?
I assume you are accidentally addressed me on that John?
ReplyDeleteYou are wrong John. It said you needed to be an RTA not REP. I joined before you and it told me that I needed to be an RTA so I know it was posted.
ReplyDeleteMix---read Lindauer's letter.
ReplyDeleteSection D Point 1
It is clear from my review of YTB companies' promotional materials that promotional materials are not being reviewed by knowledgeable legal counsel prior to their publication.
Now what would make Lindauer make such a claim?
Maybe it did. All I know is that I heard that was the place to be to talk about YTB so I went to check it out.
ReplyDeleteI entered my site URL and they granted me permission. So no hacking. No deception. YTB has all my correct information.
If it ticks you off that they let me in, why not take it up with the management.
A teenager goes out and vandalizes a neighbors house, who is responsible the teenager or the teenager's parents for damage. The parents had no idea their child did this, but they are responsible as it is their responsibility to teach their child right from wrong.
ReplyDeleteMaybe it did? It did.
ReplyDeleteWhat about Mark? Mark said his name was Mike Matthews. And Mark Matthews. He lied so should I hold you guilty by association like you hold all YTB and affiliates with those that break the rules.
You can teach a child right from wrong but that does not mean they will do what they are told. You know that since you have kids.
ReplyDeleteWell now you are talking about children who under the legal system have a party responsible for them. If the teenanger is 18, then the parents ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE>
ReplyDeleteAlso, YTB T&C specifically says you have to be 18, and adult, RESPONSIBLE FOR THEMSELVES...
another bad analogy JOHN
Directly from the REP Terms and Conditions:
ReplyDelete9. I will not promote my Rep business nor use the YTB name, trade names, logos, sales materials,
trademarks or service marks of YourTravelBiz.com, Inc. or of any affiliated YTB company, except
in websites, sales and training materials provided, or approved by YTB. The term “sales and
training materials” includes but is not limited to written, audio, CD, DVD, and flash materials and
presentations. I understand that unauthorized use or duplication of names, marks, trademarks
or copyrighted materials in a violation of federal law and will result in termination of Rep status.
10. I shall utilize only those sales materials (websites, forms, and sales, training materials, etc) provided
to me by YTB until I have achieved 30 active RTAs sold by me and or by my Rep downline,
after which I may create and/or utilize sales materials of my own choice providing that each
such item that I create or utilize shall bear a current a unexpired YTB Registration Number. To
obtain a YTB Registration Number all, sales materials must be submitted to and approved by
the YTB Legal and Regulatory Departments (legal support@ytb.com).
Again . . . Here's John Frenaye's statement:
"One of the issues in Lindauers threatened suit was that YTB did away with the requirement that ALL promo and marketing needed to be approved by legal. Wonder why that was?"
Pretty obvious that YTB did not do away "with the requirement that ALL promo and marketing needed to be approved by legal."
Terms and Conditions is dated August 2007.
"requiring it" and "looking the other way" and not enforcing that requirement are two different things.
ReplyDelete"Joey, don't do that!" wink wink nudge nudge
Well I have heard time and time again that you can sign up your children into your downline. Donald Bradley told me that at a meeting in Columbia MD in November.
ReplyDeleteAgain, what is required and what is done are two separate things
Well if you are basing your argument on that agreement, good luck to you. If you need the AG telephone number it is in the press release. Just give them a call and let them know what you found.
ReplyDeleteYou simply do not get it. YTB has that in their to hopefully save their collective asses. They do not (in reality) require people to abide by it and in fact they encourage people to ignore it. UNTIL they are caught!
I have never heard that you can sign up your children and I can certainly say it's nowhere in writing. If someone does that then they are wrong. I was told you can't even sign up your spouse because you can only have one per household per the rules.
ReplyDeleteYTB encourages people to ignore the rules? That is a truly ignorant statement. I have been to the home office numerous times and spoken to the founders and the executives and I have never heard them imply or say anything of that sort.
ReplyDeleteI believe what Donald Bradley said is that you can EMPLOY your children. I've heard him say that. And that is true. The IRS allows one to employ children, I believe 13 and older, in a home-based business and pay them a small salary. Documented activities of course.
ReplyDeleteIn order to SIGN UP IN THE BUSINESS, one must be at least 18 years old.
What are you "employing" them to do? Your a website or your a recruiter. Does he pass out business cards at the soccer game. What exactly do you employ your children to do, so that you can write them off on your taxes.
ReplyDeleteDonald Bradley said he even signed up his own kids so they could have their own travel stores.
ReplyDeleteIMHO, I was at the meeting and I heard him say it.
I am not saying he does not change the spiel around, but he said that just before saying he envisioned that in the future every member of a family from babies to grannies would all have their YTB travel store to book their own travel and save money.
"They do not (in reality) require people to abide by it and in fact they encourage people to ignore it. UNTIL they are caught!"
ReplyDeleteTotal BS from John Frenaye.
Total spin.
When YTB realizes that someone is making improper statements in print or media, they deal with it.
I turned in two different Reps in the past 12 months.
I heard from Legal promptly and the situations were taken care of.
TravelLisa,
ReplyDeleteThere are specific rules for employing your children for ALL home-based business. You too can do it if you are working out of your house.
http://www.april15.com/article_children.html
You can actually employ child 7 to 18. There are very strict rules to follow too. Lisa if your tax professional has not told you about those deductions then they don't know home-based business.
"What are you "employing" them to do? Your a website or your a recruiter. Does he pass out business cards at the soccer game. What exactly do you employ your children to do, so that you can write them off on your taxes."
ReplyDeleteYou know there are many things you can employ a child to do:
Many children are good at computers; they can design flyers
They can answer the phones and take messages
They can distribute flyers/cards
Mix, I am not saying they don't have a policy. I am also not saying they don't react when their back is up against the wall.
ReplyDeleteBut that is the only time they react.
My statement is supported by Lindauer's own letter stating that the promotional materiels have not been reviewed by counsel.
YTB is letting the Reps and RTAs do what they want and then will address it on a one by one basis if and when they are caught.
"Donald Bradley said he even signed up his own kids so they could have their own travel stores."
ReplyDeleteAnd if he did, they are over the age of 18. My children are also in this business. They are over 18.
That's a great article firemedic. Now they're acting like "YTB" is committing a crime by employing children. That is an allowable practice by the IRS. What you employ them to do is based on their age and skill level, but it helps you and the child.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the tax suggestions, but I prefer not to pimp my children out just so I can save a few bucks on my taxes.
ReplyDeleteI have no need for my children to answer my phones, design my flyers, or pass out my business cards. Thats WHAT I GET PAID TO DO. Its called WORK!!!!
IMO its completely UNPROFESSIONAL to have a child answering a business line (sorry Mommy can't come to the phone right now), or loiter people or cars with flyers or cards.
Lisa it is your choice on how much in taxes you pay. If you choose to not take advantage of legal tax deductions then there is no reason for the government not to take it. I suggest you read Ron Meullers book call "It's not how much you make but how much you keep". But hey, I am with YTB so I might be lying to you. Can't trust those rascally YTB affiliates. LOL.
ReplyDeleteLisa, there is working hard and there is working smart. Seems to me that you choose to work hard.
ReplyDeleteTravelLisa -
ReplyDeleteMaybe you do need to employ them.
You need someone to answer your phone because you spend all of your time on anti-YTB websites.
Travel sales a bit light, girl?
Love you quote on scam.com
Mentored by Michael Moore, huh?
Now it all makes sense with your glass-half-empty attitude.
And you are sounding more like Martha everyday.
Just love a Mother and Wife who swears like a drunken sailor.
Tell me about your Bill of Rights again...where is that registered?
ReplyDeleteWhat's this one per houshold stuff? YTBites everywhere are saying how they broght cynic hubby into the biz.
ReplyDeleteLisa - there is nothing wrong with child labor. Millions of the pre-teen set are working full time all around the world. If Ma and Pa want to pay for their sites well - good to go. Then Joey will be one of their downline and maybe Ma and Pa won't have to pay for Ma and Pa. This is a strong argument for having lots and lots of kiddies. YTb can help you afford them!
Mix,
ReplyDeleteAgain, I do not care what you think of me, call me, etc etc. You mean nothing to me at all. Am I mentored by Michael Moore, no, but the quote so far as I have seen lately, is true. Sorry if you take that to heart.
My sales are far from low, actually having a great month, thanks for asking. I just know how to multi-task. And if I post on any blogs, I usually do so while on hold with the airlines or another vendor. Thanks for your concern.
LOL at the drunken sailor comment. Honey, just because your wife is all primm and proper (assuming you have one) doesn't mean I have to be. I don't think my children are reading scam.com (I know they aren't) and I haven't used any ==really== bad words. Hell most of the ones I use are not even on George Carlins list.
Move on little man, if you think your comments are going to upset me, break me down, make me cry..boohoo..your horribly mistaken.
Eddie
ReplyDeleteNo, no. I wasn't saying pre-teen or teenage kids should not work. I simply meant I am not putting my 7 year old to work answering my phones. They should get JOBS, out of the home, working and getting a glimpse of what the REAL WORLD is about. I'm not quite sure that passing out flyers or business cards is going to get them that. Unless of course they aspire to be in an MLM like mom and pop.
A few things...
ReplyDeleteJOhn, I don't know Donald Bradley, but could he have adult children? Rick Ricketts son is a level 2 director. His son is not a 12 year old at home. He is an adult.
Second, you can deduct reasonable expenses of "employing" your children for specific tasks. With a home based business, you could have your children clean your office before hosting an event, your children could post flyers or hand them out, and yes at the soccer field. Me personally, my oldest is only 8 and I wouldn't have him do anything like that as he is too young. And, frankly, I wouldn't want an 8 year olds method of cleaning up prior to an event, but you can bet if my son were 12, 13, 14 he would do some 'work' and get paid.
John, again, so now you admit that YTB has rules but "they encourage people to break them????
That's rich. Since you are all about proof, care to back that claim up?
Oh, one other thing, my wife put me in the business by making me her secondary and we work the biz together.
ReplyDeleteSo, it's not one RTA per household.
ReplyDeleteLisa - how cute it is when a 5 year old answers your business phone. Come on - people LOVE it when Joey answers cause it's just so darn cute and it must mean you are a good parent for including your children in your business. I'm training my cat to do ticket exchanges and he's getting to be really good at shredding the stored fare info. Sure I'm just asking for a debit memo but I'll deduct that from my taxes as training errors. Fits (el gato negro) has an SS so it's all above board.
You have to love when two people in the know oppose each other. One says one per household and the other says my wife signed me up. Which is is fellas? In this corner Josh and in that corner firemedic. Ding ding!
ReplyDeleteJosh, they write the rules but talk a different talk. I am not saying it is Coach or Scott or Kim (although I did hear Scott skirt it a little in February). But the directors and the reps that are out there recruiting are not complying.
I mean right here, you tell me that I can recruit my spouse. Firemedic tells me I can't. Two recruiters both supposedly ethical and both telling a completely different story.
"Thanks for the tax suggestions, but I prefer not to pimp my children out just so I can save a few bucks on my taxes.
ReplyDeleteI have no need for my children to answer my phones, design my flyers, or pass out my business cards. Thats WHAT I GET PAID TO DO. Its called WORK!!!!
IMO its completely UNPROFESSIONAL to have a child answering a business line (sorry Mommy can't come to the phone right now), or loiter people or cars with flyers or cards."
LOL.....That's absolutely your preference. As I said, based on their age and skill level. There must not be any desire to teach your children business practices.
This summer I had my 6 year old granddaughter "working" by selling lemonade. And I KNOW many kids get a start by doing that. She was able to learn how to "work", the business of cash flow, what do with the cash once its made, how to save/pay tithes, and customer service. The money was sent back home with her and her mom used some for school supplies and put the rest in the bank. She was so proud she was able to contribute to her school supplies. So its definitely a benefit to the child. I don't call it pimping the child out, I call it teaching them to be responsible members of society in many ways.
AND NO, THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH MY TRAVEL BUSINESS!! You can't employ grandchildren.
"My sales are far from low, actually having a great month, thanks for asking. I just know how to multi-task. And if I post on any blogs, I usually do so while on hold with the airlines or another vendor."
ReplyDeleteIt's very funny you can do that and I CAN'T. I've been accused of not doing anything but writing on blogs and forums. Well I can multi-task also.
Did you guys read what i said, my wife was presented the business and signed me up "AS HER SECONDARY" we have ONE WEBSITE WE ARE ONE RTA>
ReplyDeleteLETS LEARN TO READ PEOPLE>
"I mean right here, you tell me that I can recruit my spouse. Firemedic tells me I can't. Two recruiters both supposedly ethical and both telling a completely different story."
ReplyDeleteJohn you're actually using the wrong terminology. One does not RECRUIT their spouse. A business has a primary applicant and a secondary applicant. It's ONE business...not a downline. My husband works with me in my business as my secondary. There are not separate checks.....there is ONE income.
Many times I have spoken to someone interested and told them to go home and get there "spouse on board" so that they both are on the same page working together.
ReplyDeleteIt is true you can only have ONE PER household.
In fact I have an RTA in my downline who's brother is temporarily living with them while his house is being built (he luckily sold his house sooner than thought so has about 9 months without a home) Since his address is the same, it wouldn't let him sign up. He has to wait until he moves.
meant their not there.oops
ReplyDelete"It is true you can only have ONE PER household."
ReplyDeleteWhat he's saying is ONE business per household. A business can have TWO applicants, a primary and a secondary. You all try to tear everything apart.
"meant their not there.oops"
ReplyDeleteGreat Josh!! My mom would be proud of you. She's a retired English professor.
IMHO
ReplyDeleteJust because I do not want my 7 year old answering my phone and making me look completely unprofessional..that means I don't teach my children business practices? Your joking right. My son knows more about the travel industry then most of the RTA's I've seen so far. He probably knows more airport codes then most of them too. That being said, I'd prefer if my child at ages 7 and 1-1/2 were actually children not slave labor. If he wants to run a lemonade stand, I tell him go for it, he wants to help with household chores (mainly his room) he gets paid for it. But I refuse to have my children sitting in the driveway or going to his baseball games passing out my business card or tacking flyers on peoples cars to drum up business. That's just wrong.
As for your being able to multi-task, I've never once stated you could/couldn't do otherwise. Most women have to in this day in age. For Mix to ASSUME I sit here all day and do nothing but post on blogs is funny. I need something to amuse me while I'm on hold, but he wouldn't know that because you book thru a website, I do not..my GDS's are front and center..I deal with the suppliers, clients directly. I don't REFER!
"Oh, one other thing, my wife put me in the business by making me her secondary and we work the biz together."
ReplyDeleteJoshie pooh you are a lying sack of shit you know that. You were on another thread going on and on about how YOU got into YTB so the wifey could stay home with the kids. No mention of her in your downline or in the biz. You spouted off about the extra income and how wifey pooh goes to the Spa while you stay home with the kiddies. I think you are a fraud, a con and a cheat. You don't have a job cause you are here all day. Sounds like the wifey has your you know what wrapped around her finger in another words Joshie you are a weinie and a kept man.
Lisa, I wouldn't want a 7 year old answering my phones either. AGAIN, I said age-appropriate duties. What part of that are you not getting?? But a 13 could certainly answer a call and take a message appropriately. Tell me you've never marketed to everyone you know that you have a travel business?? Sure you have....even your son's baseball parents.
ReplyDeleteI never said YOU said anything about what I do, but it HAS been said. It's also wrong to ASSUME that I only refer. I'm sitting here right now making arrangements for a group cruise. Referring is NOT my only job in this business.
Oh kitty kitty kitty.
ReplyDeleteShe was the one approached.....she placed ME as her secondary. We decided together....to work this biz so she wouldn't have to go back to work. She went to a spa one day.
Nothing has changed. I work 2 days a week from 4 to noon. and 2 others from 2 until midnight.
But, thanks for your concern. No need for me to point out kitty's maturity. Read for yourself.
Since these comments don't have an edit, i have to make another post, but WE got into YTB so SHE wouldn't have to go back to work.
ReplyDeleteThat doesn't mean that she doesn't work our YTB biz.
I don't know why I need to explain this to you, but I do anyway.
I have never heard that you can sign up your children and I can certainly say it's nowhere in writing. If someone does that then they are wrong. I was told you can't even sign up your spouse because you can only have one per household per the rules.
ReplyDeleteAn acquaintance of mine signed up with YTB, and then signed up their (then) 17 year old daughter (she's now 19) ... they each had their own URL, and same home address.
"An acquaintance of mine signed up with YTB, and then signed up their (then) 17 year old daughter (she's now 19) ... they each had their own URL, and same home address."
ReplyDeleteYea, I'm not quite sure about the address because I also signed up my daughter who was living with me at that time. The system WILL kick back what's incorrect.
Hey Denyse,
ReplyDeleteIf YTB is so freaking great, and you really do get all this fantastic training, then what's with this post that you made on another board??
Hi, I have a teammate who is looking for a part time job in the travel industry to get more experience. Does anyone know any places that will hire in an office (B&M) an unexperienced person who has purchased an online agency?
I think its self explanatory. She's just starting out in this industry and is looking to work for an experienced agency on a part time basis. She wants to advance her experience. Training is not experience.
ReplyDeleteFirst time I have checked in today and I can't believe it. Signing your kids up for your down line? Deducting them for doing YTB work? You people really are pathetic. And, you think there is nothing wrong with this picture? Amazing to me how you all keep defending the Coach and the company. It's like watching the Titanic go down. If I were you all I would spend a little less time on-line and start doing a serious job search.
ReplyDeleteLOL......funny. You all just sit here lurking around trying to find the next thing to talk about regarding YTB. I've booked two group cruises TODAY. Hope you all have done as well! :)
ReplyDeleteThe only thing I'm defending is my paycheck!
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry you feel I'm pathetic. But I'm a RICH pathetic *****. How about you?
ReplyDeleteLMAO
ReplyDeleteNow that made me laugh today. That takes the all time cake.
Thanks!...I so needed that.
Denyse if you were so dog gone rich why are you still living in the inner city? I would think with all your money you and your Rev. hubby would be building a Church to rival Joel Osteen's......Please.
ReplyDeleteAs to hosts hiring you I hear Coral Sands is hiring new agents...
I'll help her IMHO - but be forewarned - she'll dump the online agency before the first week is out when she finds out just how much she can make selling travel without a rinky dink website like YTBs. A GDS, a phone and email is all one needs. Oh yeah and experience. After one year - her income vs yours will look like the Queen Elizabeth vs a dory.
ReplyDeleteExactly. With the massive salary you are now taking in by booking with YTB, why are you still living in Crack Central? The violent crime statistics in the city are higher then all of NJ itself.
ReplyDeleteWhy would any B&M hire some one with YTB that is just interested in staying long enough to get experience and then steal clients?? Why is this person not able to get experience booking on their own? Why is their upline not able to help them? A real travel agency will not give this person any experience in refering or recruiting anyway. So what would be the point except to steal clients?
ReplyDelete"Denyse if you were so dog gone rich why are you still living in the inner city? I would think with all your money you and your Rev. hubby would be building a Church to rival Joel Osteen's......Please."
ReplyDeleteI've addressed that before. Apparently you all don't know anything about ministry. We live where the church is. We are accessible to the people. Everyone in ministry doesn't have to live outside of the city like Osteen, Dollar, etc. But I'll tell you the house I live in costs close to $500,000.
That is exactly the problem with traditional business models. You take the risk of creating your own competition. In networking you don't. But I am sure you TTA's have something to say about that. You are in the "S" category of the cashflow quadrant. We are in the "B". If you don't know what I am talking about then read "Rich Dad, Poor Dad".
ReplyDelete"As to hosts hiring you I hear Coral Sands is hiring new agents..."
ReplyDeleteI'm NOT the one who's looking. It's a team member.
IMHO you own them nothing. Don't try to explain it because they only look to bring you down and try to shame you. This way they feel better about themselves.
ReplyDelete"Why would any B&M hire some one with YTB that is just interested in staying long enough to get experience and then steal clients?? Why is this person not able to get experience booking on their own? Why is their upline not able to help them? A real travel agency will not give this person any experience in refering or recruiting anyway. So what would be the point except to steal clients?"
ReplyDeleteThanks for your concern Autumn, but she DID locate a B&M willing to hire her.
"Exactly. With the massive salary you are now taking in by booking with YTB, why are you still living in Crack Central? The violent crime statistics in the city are higher then all of NJ itself."
ReplyDeleteLet me also say I really don't like it when someone degrades where I live. When you speak of "crack central", being in politics I can tell you that many of the "crack purchasers" are coming from OUTSIDE of this city from cities like yours and other SUBURBAN areas. And I'm assuming you live in a suburban area since you're degrading the inner city.
But that has nothing to do with travel. My last comment.
firemedic, I have no idea why I let them get me entangled in their drama and madness. They must be miserable in life. Back to work!
ReplyDelete"Thanks for your concern Autumn, but she DID locate a B&M willing to hire her"
ReplyDeleteI wonder if she told them of her plans and intentions??
I have to say IMHO they don't do anything at all to get you entangled. It's all on us coming from a responsible viewpoint.
ReplyDelete"I wonder if she told them of her plans and intentions??"
ReplyDeleteAutumn, what would you know about her plans if you don't even know her!!!! This is really asinine. You all say the dumbest things - anything because of YTB. I tell you - as stupid as you all THINK YTB RTAs are, I would rather have them book any vacation of mine than to let you all have any of my dollars.
Great marketing guys!! I hope none of your travel clients read this.
firemedic: I know. I wonder if they'd disown someone in their family if they decided to become a part of a travel/MLM. It doesn't even have to be YTB - any of them. Wow.
Well either she is going to keep her travel website and is just using the agency for experience, which is what you said, in which time she would leave to work her YTB business. Or she is planning to dump YTB and stay at the B&M. Either way I find it hard to believe a B&M would hire her knowing since this is a conflict of interest.
ReplyDeleteAssume what you will or may since you will anyway. She asked me to put out feelers which is what I did. I neither have the time nor interest to go into any further details about her life. Everyone has their own motives for what they do. How does that make any money for you????
ReplyDeleteIf a B&M hired her, that's their decision. I believe the B&M owner is also a part of YTB; that's how I was introduced to them.
"But I'll tell you the house I live in costs close to $500,000."
ReplyDeleteA 500,000 house in the crack city. ROTFLMAO at that comment. Come on Denyse. Get real. I don't know any inner city ministers that live in that kind of a house and most ministers I know with the exception of the TV ones live very modestly....You are so full of it it ain't funny..
"A 500,000 house in the crack city. ROTFLMAO at that comment. Come on Denyse. Get real. I don't know any inner city ministers that live in that kind of a house and most ministers I know with the exception of the TV ones live very modestly....You are so full of it it ain't funny.."
ReplyDeleteDo you know me??????? Remember, its a crack city servicing the suburbs. If you know anything about Paterson (and I assume you do), you know about the Eastside. Look up the value of the homes if its that important to you. This home is not worth $500,000 but that's the value in the market. There are houses in this neighborhood way past that. I'm in a cheap house. Its also NJ where property is sky high. My home in MD costs less than this house and was better.
Denyse
ReplyDeleteI lived in Clifton most of my life. I know Paterson probably better then you do. My friends and alot of family still live in NJ. I moved out of NJ for a better quality of life for my kids. The school systems were horribly overcrowded and the crime was rampant. I decided instead of spending $350,000 on a house I would have had to burn down because it was such crap, I would move to PA and spend that on a brand new house on acres of land. Hardly ANY crime, no gang violence, and no crack dealers on every corner.
Wether the BUYERS of crack are coming from the outside is irrelevant. The DEALERS are in Paterson, the crime is in Paterson, the neighborhoods are horrible and its one of the worst cities in NJ. I find it extremely hard to believe that if you were making all the boo-koo bucks you claim, that you'd still want to live in that type of town, regardless if you husband is a minister or not.
Back to the subject of the video on this post...I have a question.
ReplyDeleteJohn pointed this guy out months ago. YTB reads this blog. If they actually were concerned with eliminating erroneous messages - this video would have been forced to be removed (they could have petitioned YouTube themselves).
So - since it was not removed - you have to assume that it was defacto "approved" by YTB.
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