In looking through some forums yesterday, it seems that there are many at YTB that simply have this blind faith in YTB and will take whatever is told to them at face value. Before doing that, please remember how long it took for YTB to disclose the termination by Royal Caribbean and the loss of the IATAN accreditation. Management was not exactly forthcoming.
Yesterday's news was not a surprise to the Management. They had been trying to prevent this day for 18 months and apparently have failed. As Mark Ewing has pointed out in his YouTube Video and in a comment on this blog, this is not IATAN or a vendor, this is VERY serious ande has some very far reaching implications for YTB, their Management and yes, even the Reps and RTAs that may not have been 100% ethical in their recruiting. The AG is looking for yet unidentified defendants.
If you are a Rep or an RTA in California, I woudl think a call to your attorney (not Pre-Paid Legal) woudl be a good investment. If you are a Director in California, I would definately make an appointment, because it is likely you will be named in this suit and you will be required to defend yourself. Do not count on YTB to do it for you.
As I mentioned, Mark Ewing has a very fair and balanced (sorry Fox) perspective on this:
Well I wouldn't exactly call that fair and balanced. It was a news report with Mark's opinion added in.
ReplyDeleteI would agree that obviously this is serious but I firmly believe that YTB is not a pyramid and will ultimately prevail.
As an aside, I know you guys are all about bad ads...and I will be reporting this one, I think.... but I saw this ad...For now I will leave the contact off...
If you have always dreamed about a life of riches, adventure, romance and travel...
...Then this may be the most important letter you'll ever read.
Because on the following web page, I'm going to show you how ANYONE can have an amazing career, traveling the globe IN STYLE for FREE and even getting paid to do it! I don't care what your background is, or where you live. ANYONE CAN DO THIS.
Thoughts? It doesnt really say too much.
Didn't mean to submit yet as I left this part out...
ReplyDeleteYou will learn how you can travel in style to all the places you’ve always dreamed about, and at the same time, get paid handsomely to do it! It is so easy and simple to do. Just follow the easy step-by-step instructions, and you’ll be enjoying your first profitable vacation in no time.
Not only will you be learning from the very best in the business, you also will be directly connected and associated with the top industry professionals right from the start as well.
You’ll be learning tricks of the trade that most people even in the travel business don’t know about.
Just the professional connections alone are worth thousands of dollars and years of experience.
You’ll learn how you can get the exact same benefits and credentials that seasoned travel agents and professionals covet, in just a few weeks time. This will allow you to have the same major discounts and considerations that travel agents get!
Then there is this...It is our job, IMO< to report this stuff...as the company as a whole can't police everything.
ReplyDeleteWould You Like To: ·
1. Travel for free?·
2. Make money while you are traveling (for free)?·
3. Meet new and interesting people?·
4. Take three, four, five free vacations or more a year?·
5. Travel with small groups of people to exciting destinations around the world?·
6. Develop life-long, sincere friendships?· 7. Be upgraded to First or Business Class when you fly?·
8. Stay in Deluxe hotels and resorts wherever you go?·
9. Have private guided tours of any city (the choice is yours) in the world?·
10. Have a circle of friends that want to travel with you? ·
11. Be a social travel leader to grateful friends and followers?·
12. Most importantly, have control of your own time and destiny?
I agree to the point and there is really not enough info on that..but I am sure you are gonna tell us!
ReplyDeleteIT does seem like it is a training course. ANd if so, that is a key difference wsith YTB/...yes anyone can do it if they study and so forth..YTB does not do that for you
THey charge nomey for site and then vclaim that because you have the knock off travelocity site you are now a travel ahgent and are "entitiled" (although they do say they are not entitlements but discretionary) to all the prrks
I just realized that YTB changed the language of the perks from "you will receive them" to the "the suppliers may give them" I guess it is because they lost YYTB and few recognize CLIA and next to no one recognized the CRTA card as any type of legitimate credential
A training course?
ReplyDeleteBut, they claim that ANYONE can get the "same perks and credentials" that travel agents have. WHy would that be ok with a training course?
I have heard dozens of comments here from TAs saying that they didn't become TAs because of being able to travel but because they want to help people.
Seems to me this "training course" is trying to find people who simply want to travel fro FREE.
Just seemed to me that that was a big gripe.
Oh and, YTB, as long as I have been with (almost 2 years) has never had a language on "perks" matter of factly saying "you will receive them".
ReplyDeleteJosh--no one has issues with anyone getting perks if they are trained and qualified. Never have.
ReplyDeleteI am sure there are more than dozens who didn't get into it for the perks; and there are more than dozens who did. Again, no one ever said that.
I agree with Insider that the language is not what I would like to see in terms of the industry, but it also appears to me that it is a course.
CLIA could reasonable put out something like this if they were more focused on recruiting new people to the industry. I would still not particularly like the language but..
And since you are holding the big secret mystery of where this ad came from, I don't know if it is a course or not. Sounds like it and if indeed they are teaching someone how to be a travel agent--not recruit, I believe it is a LOT more legitimate than YTB.
YTB promises those (or alludes to the promise of them now) for merely paying thr $449. ANd then they promise that for an additional $149 you can become CERTYIFIED, which is nothing more than a giant recruiting class.
I think you are fishing and wishing. It is like the video and the cut and paste I received 40 times yesterday about comparing YTB to Microsoft. In both cases, you are so far apart, it is laughable.
Josh, if you were with YTB prior to March of this year you most certainly were told about the perks that come with the CRTA card (California is the exception and I am assuming that you are not there since it is 430)
ReplyDeleteI went to a presentation in November (I think) and the huge message was...sign up now so you can get the CRTA card with your registration that way you can get the perks (as the slide for Tahiti was on the screen) and travel like an insider without having to sell any travel or attend any training.
It was supposed to be changed Jan 1 but was pushed back to Mar 1 and from what I hear there is a workaround--you can attend training and not pay for it (only RTAs pay) and then request the card at no cost (because Reps are a "totally free" position.
In addition I have also heard that when a rep has enough people to qualify for travel overrides (Power Team) he can get the CRTA credential and the CLIA card since he is now receiving "income" from the sale of travel even though he had nothing to do with it!
John,
ReplyDeleteYOur first sentence in your comment I hope is how you really feel.
With YTB implementing new training and with the CLIA move, would you accept YTBs RTAs that would qualify to become CLIA certified under the new guidelines EVEN if those RTAs are also REPS who recruit new RTAs to do the same?
Yes it was supposed to be changed JAN 1, but it was announced way back in October 2007. So, we were already back in the fall, letting people know that any card would only be issued once certain travel sales are met.
ReplyDeleteAs far as your last paragraph I am not certain, but I wouldn't say that the REP had nothing to do with the travel sales if that REP "hired" the sales people.
Think about the GM of a car dealership. He/She may never be on the floor selling but might have hired the best sales people. Corporate will likely give that GM a raise for "having something to do" with the car sales.
Give it a rest Josh. You really need therapy to figure out why you are so gullible, misdirected and blind to it.
ReplyDeleteWell, lets see, I have made almost 20k since I joined. 20k that I didn't have before I joined.
ReplyDeleteI took 8 months prior to getting into YTB researching the company and felt comfortable with it and still do today.
But, I have to ask, what happens if the AG drops the case and/or YTB is proven to be in full compliance?
Will you all back off and be accepting?
First the Realtor analogy did not work out and now we are onto cars? Since you are in YTB and are a car salesman as well, why not ask your GM how he is compensated.
ReplyDeleteThe TTA community has ZERO issue with any properly trained and serious new people coming into the business. We never have and we encourage it. Count the times on the comments here where we have said "go find a reputable host"!
What YTB provides is not what the industry considers training. It is Ann Sedgewick from Carnival on a conference call giving a rah rah speech about Carnival. It is a vocal brochure and that is what you pass off as training time and time again.
The abuse of FAMS is another issue where they are treated as vacations.
And face it, very few (if any) RTAs would sign up without the perks. This is what the AG says, YTB promises this lifestyle and cannot deliver except for the few at the top of the pyramid.
Have they made strides? Absolutely, but all along they are tarnishing your name and reputation. They operate illegally until they are caught and then try to preach or sweet talk their way into redemption. God may forgive, but I am thinking Jerry Brown may not be as kind.
We have said associate with a legitimate host. Even your own President Sorenson has said he needs to "legitimize" YTB. Well tat says something. And because you have been affiliated with them, you in turn are tarnished as well.
If you are serious about selling travel (and I seriously doubt that) do you really feel your association with YTB is going to looked upon favorably by ANY legitimate host? Oh I see you were with YTB. Aren't they the company that
had their top sales rep investigated for illegal business practices in Florida?
the company that lost accrreditation wiht IATA?
the company that Royal Caribbean refusesd to sell to at any price?
the company that caused the uproar in the industry?
the company that sent people out in green shirts to recruit people to travel for free?
the company that botched the Olympic packages?
the company that had several RTAs just taking tens of thousands of dollars and running?
the company that was sued by California for $25M for being an illegal pyramid scheme
the company that showed a marginal profit one time in 7 years in existence and immediately bought a lear jet for it's Coach?
the company that encouraged shady tax deduxctions?
the company that paid themselves $8M for a foam stage prop?
I mean really how well is YOUR reputation going to come out of this? IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN SELLING TRAVEL.
I'm kind of excited to watch the stock market today. Will be interesting to see if it tanks, if the pumpers push it up again. Then how many of the zombies will buy it high only to lose big when it is sold again.
ReplyDeleteJosh, there are MANY MANY issues with YTB and the AG is just dealing with the legal and business issues. SO today if it is dropped--absolutely no way would it change the opinion of YTB in the eyes of me (and I am guessing the industry as a whole)
ReplyDeleteNow if you move to a franchising model, I guess that needs to be seen.
And since you made $20K you may indeed be one of the "Does" that Jerry Brown is looking for. Are you in California?
My guess is that the folks that are likely to buy it are getting the spin from Coach in meetings and will not be able to do so till next week.
ReplyDeleteI am predicting a slight up opening, followed by another 30% drop today and two more days of 15% drops to finish the week at about 60 cents a share
"As far as your last paragraph I am not certain, but I wouldn't say that the REP had nothing to do with the travel sales if that REP "hired" the sales people."
ReplyDeleteBut remember, the Rep business and RTA business are supposed to be separate entities. Unfortunately, they are really tied at the hip by practices such as the travel overrides. It is that linkage that the AG will use to bring down YTB.
It's incredible to watch the RATS and REPS scrambling. If its to their advantage the REP and RTAs are two seperate entities. If it's against them, they are two of the same. They can't even figure out their own company. They don't know if they are coming or going.
ReplyDeleteThe best thing is that alot of zombies probably have no clue about this news. And if they do, they probably don't believe it. And will try to blame it on the TTA. I wouldn't touch the kool-aid at the convention if you paid me to!
ReplyDeleteThey are already blaming it on the TTA. I read yesterday on the yahoo finance pages that one guy actually said the AG is in our pockets. Completely laughable.
ReplyDeleteYTB's Training is a joke.
ReplyDeleteYTB's recruiting tactics are horrendous. Free Travel, travel like a pro, discounted trave, write off your vacations.
Most YTB Reps/RTA's are obnoxious, arrogant and ignore the rules such as where to recruit.
YTB takes advantage of tax loopholes and tax deductions and uses that in recruiting. Deduct your travel, deduct your vacations blah, blah, blah.
YTB has said time and time again travel agents are dinosaurs and we don't embrace change. Which is BS.
YTB is a sleazy company. Run by sleaze bags. You don't believe me. Dig a little. The exectuives have 0 knowledge of the travel industry and are arrogant.
YTB preys on those who are disadvanataged, uneducated and the lower socio economic scale promising them a dream of making millions in the trillion dollar travel industry.
YTB and Travel and Absurd Mix
The TTAs are smiling with glee.
ReplyDeleteI will be glad to compare notes with any one of you in a few months.
This is not the end of YTB.
Not in the least.
I have a long list of companies that have been sued by the State of California.
CA is notorious for lawsuits.
It's why scores of companies are leaving their State.
Looks like we are having an impact on other travel companies or we would not even be on the radar screen.
It is obvious that the traditional travel industry is behind this.
They don't like us.
CA could not get us on any travel issue, so they are pulling out the "pyramid card".
It will not work.
They sued AMWAY.
It didn't work.
They sued EXCEL Communications.
It didn't work.
We sold millions of dollars of travel these past couple of years.
No one cared about us until we started selling big travel dollars.
Now they don't like us.
You can use the FAM and perks excuse.
IT IS BECAUSE WE ARE SELLING MILLIONS OF TRAVEL.
The pied pipers of anti-YTB rhetoric, John Frenaye and Mark Ewing look as arrogant as Barack Obama himself today.
This is far from over.
Count on it.
$200 million dollars for over a hundred thousand agents is pitiful. Do you not get that? One agent in my office of 50 does $3m by herself alone. Are we supposed to be impressed with this number?
ReplyDeleteI get a bigger laugh that the AG is attacking YTB simply because of us travel agents. Are you for real? Do you honestly think the state of California is going to sue a company and spend countless dollars in doing so simply because we're pissed off? What meds are you taking...up the dosage!
As for any TTA ever being jealous or worried for our business because of YTB, I will state it again, we are not. Disgusted..yes, by all the false claims, slimey recruiting, lack of training etc. I can guarantee that no client of mine is going to move to an agency whos name is associated more with scams then actual travel. They want service, assistance, knowledge and on call service. They do not want a faceless site that isn't going to help them when they need it. Us arrogant, I think not. What we are is passionate about an industry we actually care about, unlike the MLM crowd which seems to be only about the mighty dollar, perks and tax writeoffs.
Earth to Travellisa -
ReplyDeleteThere are politics involved in State Government.
And if you think that the wonderful, AG Jerry Brown does not have a history of political moves fueled by contributions, time to get a clue.
I have read the AG Suit.
It is FULL of holes.
Our attorneys will have plenty to stand on.
I will repeat:
No one cared about us when we were not selling millions in travel.
It is not about the FAMS and perks.
Maybe it is to the rank and file TTAs.
(with and emphasis on the RANK)
But not to the big players in travel.
No one is bothering the World Ventures and Traveruses of the world.
If you think that YTB is all about perks, check one of these two companies out.
YTB is a piker compared to all of their discount offerings.
BUT THEY DON'T SELL TRAVEL.
YTB was on a roll in 06 and 07.
The industry did not like the new kid on the block making the Power List.
Here comes the politically appointed action.
It is where we are today.
And, as I said, our attorneys have plenty to stand on.
I believe that the AG office brings suit when members (not outsiders) of the business cry foul. Some poed YTBers are behind this. Look to your own, Mixed Up.
ReplyDeleteSo does anyone know if the lawsuit puts a freeze on recruiting in Cali?
ReplyDeleteExactly Eddie.
ReplyDeleteThe suit was IMO brought on by people who joined YTB and didn't get anything they were told they would. In their eyes they were scammed. A TTA simply cannot call the AG's office and complain about a company simply because (what you say) we are jealous! Or did we all take up a collection to bribe (pardon me - contribute) to the AG? Your being completely ridiculous. Obviously YTB knew about this if they've been working with the AG for 18 months now. I'm guessing the AG didnt get the right answers and now he's going to sue and the AG has enough information to pursue it otherwise he wouldn't spend the money pushing it.
As for WV and Traversus..do you not think they are cringing at this news, do you not think they are next on the chopping block? I'm quite sure their eyes are wide open and waiting to see how this all pans out. They are just as bad, and just as slimey in my book. I never said YTB was the only MLM that needed to be looked at. Unfortunately, YTB is the most public. Blame your own house for this mess..not us.
eddie -
ReplyDeleteLooks like you need a lesson on politics and out-of-control government.
People hurt with YTB?
Give me a break.
You can cancel your $49.95 at any time.
And get a refund on the $450.
The AG played the "pyramid" card because they could not find anything illegal with our travel model.
And his pyramid findings are FULL of holes.
And the timing of this is quite convenient, including Brown's personal attack regarding the YTB Convention in the press release.
Oh Mixed - How come you're not at the convention? Are you busy with your attorney? I would think a director would be at the convention. My favorite statement from you is: "I will be glad to compare notes with any one of you in a few months." Sure you will. You won't even give us a clue about yourself because you're so full of it. Get ready for the PEN. I hope they discover your "tax fraud" too.
ReplyDeleteYTB and TRAVEL: Kapoot!
Mixed is nothing but a normal RAT. No Director. Probably at home sending in his applications to McDs and 7-11. Unfortunately nobody knows what YTB is, and scamming people doesn't work well on your resume.
ReplyDeleteIt's YOU that need to review how these things work Mixed Up. Suits are filed against companys after 'employees', 'members', 'shareholders' bring evidence of unethical behavior or business practices to the state. The state then reviews the evidence, tries to work things out with the company, and when all else fails brings suit. The AGs duty is to protect the citizens of the state from unfair business practices. The AGs duty is NOT to interfere with competition. Once again, YTB has shown it's arrogance to comply with the law. You, actually, are a very good example of that.
ReplyDeleteYeah but arrogance is part of the Tomers resumes. They didn't need RCCl, they didn't need ARC, they didn't IATAN (even though they tried to get reinstated), they don't need anyone. Coach said so! And when Coach says so people should bow, drink kool aid and send there $50 a month to make him happy! What a bunch of morons.
ReplyDeleteMix, if California were the only state with a suit, you might survive it. But we have been working with one of our State Reps for several weeks on this issue.
ReplyDeleteWe've collected hundreds of YTB ads, each with a very specific false earnings claim.
The head of the dept of tourism wants these mlms out of our state as well.
The very first thing we did when I got up this morning was fire off a letter to the dept of commerce encouraging them to take a look at the California suit. I know several other agents in other states that have contacted their dept of commerce this week as well.
California is just the beginning sugar.
What's your plan B?
I'm not a TTA but I fired off a letter to my AG as well with links to all the news reports. Will be interesting to see what kind of reply if any I get.
ReplyDelete