Thursday, August 14, 2008

The Dark Clouds Roll In

Well, the Coach talks a good talk, but he seems to have difficulty on the walk. I listened to a conference call a few weeks ago and he was whooping it up about the 2nd Quarter Results. He was so excited because they were "so good" that he was going to release them early and just before the convention. Well, Jerry Brown stole his thunder there I suppose.

Well, they are out and it appears, either he can't walk the walk, or does not realize that parentheses on a balance sheet are not good. Dashes mean negative, and red is not a good color!  Here are some initial highlights and key figures:

  • The bottom line is YTB lost $199,577 in the 2nd quarter which increased its year to date loss to just shy of $4 million. It is interesting to note that this time last year, the report showed an income of $1.6 million for the quarter and only a $505K loss for the year to date.  Seems like YTB is sliding to me.
  • Travel sales are WAY off.  Year to date they have paid out $14.1M in commissions. That will put them near $28.2M for the year.   At an overall 10% commission that places sales in the neighborhood of $282M.  Seems a long shot from the $411M they claimed to Travel Weekly. ANd certainly not on the way to a BILLION dollars for 2006 2007 2008.  $282M puts them in the mid 30s spot on Travel Weekly, but my guess is that they slide much further (while others grow) if they make it at all.
  • This year they have cash on hand of $632K and last year there was over $1 million.
  • They disclosed that an acquisition did not go through. This is apparently the highly touted American Destinations Inc. acquisition--could I have been correct? (Caution, this is THE post, hide your children and protect their eyes the photo is still there!)
  • Also as expected, the RTAs are leaving at a record pace. This quarter, they sold 23,296 sites (last year they sold 34, 309 so recruiting is off 32%). But 30,638 quit. So for every new site sold, 3/4 of a site left.  And on a six month basis, they are still losing more than they are selling. But, this was already predicted and expected back in May.
  • Canada appears to be a complete bust and represents only 3% of their income and interestingly enough, Bermuda and the Bahamas are not reported at all. I wonder if they produced ANY revenue?
  • The number of RTAs has only increased 30% year over year, yet the administrative expenses (salaries, etc.) have increased  100% from $13M to $26M. Seems the overhead may end up killing them.
  • And of course, there is absolutely no surprise where YTB makes their money. For the quarter, in first place is website rental and sign up fees at 74.5%, in a very distant second place is income from travel at 19.7%, and bringing up the rear is training materials at 5.1%. I will say that it is slightly better than last quarter as their 6 month picture is 76.9%, 16.2%, and 6.9% respectively. Not sure those numbers will be enough to convince Jerry Brown et al, but it may be worth a try.

And let's keep in mind that these reflect only through June 30, 2008. They do not take into account any of the issues surrounding the recent events from California, Illinois and the Class Action suit. Nor does it include the expense of the foam prop. Speaking of which, it is strange how it has all of a sudden been devalued from $8M to $1.8M. Some things make you go "Hmmmm."

I did notice that YTB included some deferred revenue in the filing to indicate sales made that have not been paid commission. If they are accurate in this number and it is only for unpaid commissions, the sales are even further off the mark. On Page 6 it shows the "Deferred Revenue" as defined on Page 9 to be $2.6 Million. This does not seem to be a large number. That shows that each RTA has commissions owed (at some point) of about $12.

I imagine that the steady decline of RTAs in the last three quarters will only increase exponentially in the 3rd quarter. I cannot imagine how people can sell the program with the black cloud of $125M in lawsuits hanging overhead and the probability of several more.

All in all, seems like the ship is sinking and I wonder what this dismal report will do the the stock that has already taken a HUGE hit over the last week.


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49 comments:

  1. I have many, many questions about this...

    1. Where are all the flower sales?
    2. Where are all the car sales?
    3. Where are all the sales from Bermuda?
    4. Where are all the sales from the Bahamas?
    5. Did anyone else notice that a YTB Board member owns all of the following:
    - the company that they bought the jet from?
    - the company that that built the statue?
    -the company that prints all their materials?
    - the company that their buildings are built on?
    - their buildings?
    -and that a YTB board member is also on the board at a bank they borrow their money from?

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  2. So they lost 7k RATS. And this was before the bad news. I can only imagine what Q3 will look like with all this bad news coming out. Not going to be a fun time to be associated with YTB.

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  3. John, you said, "This quarter, they sold 23,296 sites (last year they sold 34,309 so recruiting is off 32%). But 30,638 quit. So for every new site sold, 3/4 of a site left."

    Actually, its more like for every 2 that joined, 3 quit (23,296/30,638 = .67).

    Another interesting statistic is that 9,108,334 Class B shares were converted to Class A shares in the last 6 months. Class B shares are the ones mostly held by insiders that give 10 votes whereas Class A shares only get 1 vote. So, there is no reason to convert the shares unless you are looking to sell. So this is more evidence of insiders bailing out. Almost 14% of all Class B shares outstanding were converted (and likely sold) by insiders over the last 6 months alone.

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  4. Wow...once again, when all the facts are presented, the YTB zealots all run away. Maybe if they don't hear what anyone says that will make what Coach said true....

    this ship is sinking at a steady pace boys. Ladies and children first--well after Coach, Scotty and Kim of course!

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  5. They're waiting for Coach to call the spin...errr..play

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  6. It is going to be an absolute pleasure when YTB wins the CA case.

    The WTAs (Whining Travel Agents) will be crying the blues more than ever.

    And I will be the first one on this site to cram it down your wonderful throats.

    It will be a great day.

    YTB will be proven not to be a pyramid scheme, which will propel our numbers.

    And the WTAs will be OH, SO UPSET.

    Poor little boys and girls.

    Enjoy your pleasure now.

    It will end sometime soon.

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  7. Sounds like someone is a bit defensive!

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  8. Hey Mix, you haven't been around much lately. Updating that resume? I don't think "recruiting for YTB" and "scamming" people will get you past the Burger King casheer job. But good luck to you!

    Your numbers are falling, and this was after a "good" last quarter. If you couldn't keep them before, I'd like to know how you will keep them with all this bad news?

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  9. Mixed Up - what about the BBB and Illinois?
    Since legal defense is so cheap I'm sure this will not impact the bottom line. I see it being settled out of court with YTB paying the 10 million fine to CA and perhaps the same to IL. You can of course consider that a 'win.'

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  10. "Wow...once again, when all the facts are presented, the YTB zealots all run away. Maybe if they don't hear what anyone says that will make what Coach said true...."

    Just know that when you hear nothing from the "YTB zealots", its not because there's no answer. Its for 2 reasons:

    1. Whatever we say will mean nothing to you anyway because you have your minds made up, so why bother? Its a waste of my time.

    2. Its a waste of my time. I have to work - MY YTB BUSINESS IS FULL-TIME. This makes no money for me!

    Stopped in while I was having lunch! Great day!

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  11. Great Mix: NO, we will not cram it down their throats. That's not how we should be. I don't do that - no matter what people here say I do and how much I'm a liar. I respect people and their feelings more than that.

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  12. YTB and TRAVEL: A Great Mix! said...
    It is going to be an absolute pleasure when YTB wins the CA case.

    The WTAs (Whining Travel Agents) will be crying the blues more than ever.

    And I will be the first one on this site to cram it down your wonderful throats.

    Dear MIX...
    At least John allows comments on this blog be they pro or anti-YTB/MLM. Unlike a certain YTB blogger that's too chicken to allow anyone to comment.

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  13. RE: Saturday Evening Post

    Thought you all may want to know what the publishers/editors of the Post said:

    The question arose when outsiders who don't understand why YTB founder, Coach Tomer is such a media darling and why one of the oldest and most respected magazines in our country would choose to write about him, visited the Saturday Evening Post website and did not see YTB on the July / August cover issue.

    Instead, Meredith Vieira is on that cover. So what's the story? Here it is... straight from the publishers of the Saturday Evening Post.

    We called and spoke with Bob Silvers who is one of the editors at the Saturday Evening Post. This is what he said:

    1. The website is out of date and they are working on that. It's a long story but they are making arrangements to get a new webmaster. So if you are looking for updated info you won't find it on their website until this problem is solved.

    2. The Saturday Evening Post does not sell its editorials. In other words, no person or company can pay to have an article written about them. The article written about Coach Tomer was completely initiated by and the idea of the magazines' editors.

    3. The magazine researched and evaluated both YTB and Coach Tomer and found them to be a very reputable, publicly traded company that is highly respected. Again, based on its research about YTB it was the decision of the Saturday Evening Post to write the article about Coach Tomer.

    4. The cover shows Meredith Vieira because NBC only agreed to allow them to do the article about her if she was on the cover.

    5. YTB wanted reprints of the article written about Coach Tomer for our troops, so YTB purchased the entire magazine and the Saturday Evening Post agreed to put Coach Tomer on the cover of these reprints and make them the August Edition. Everything else about the magazine -- including the article written about Coach Tomer -- is the same in both the copies with Meredith on the cover AND in the copies with Coach Tomer on the cover.

    According to Bob, many companies have special reprints done and often make such requests for their reprinted edition. This is standard fare folks, and should not be a problem for anyone because the content is the same in both editions and the Saturday Evening Post had no problem and thought it was absolutely fine to have Coach Tomer on the cover and encouraged people who want copies to contact YTB!

    So now you have it. Mystery solved. YTB and Coach Tomer are highly admired and well respected. To make it perfectly clear, YTB did not pay to have any article to be written about Coach Tomer nor for any special advertising.

    Oh! And why the difference in costs?? There were extra costs incurred to have the special edition reprinted AND to have them shipped in time for the convention. =)

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  14. Hey hey...now three lawsuits.

    "On August 14, 2008, a complaint seeking to be certified as a class-action was filed against YTB International, Inc. (the "Company"), three Company subsidiaries, and certain executive officers, in the United States District Court, Southern District of Illinois. The complaint alleges that the defendants violated the Illinois Consumer Fraud and Deceptive Business Practices Act. The complaint mirrors the allegations made by certain other plaintiffs set forth in their complaint filed on August 8, 2008, in the same forum, against the Company, its three subsidiaries, and certain executive officers. The Company believes it has meritorious defenses and intends to vigorously defend both cases. "

    http://biz.yahoo.com/e/080815/ytbla.ob8-k.html

    How many more of these will we see? I say quite a bit more in the coming weeks.

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  15. Coach paid for the cover. That is what we have been saying all along. I feel it is a little deceptive. I was in Newsweek last month. Not a big deal, but I did not have the opportunity to have the cover redone with me on it.

    I mean really, what happens when you show the magazine to someone who subscribes and they say "Oh, I don't remember that issue" only to find out it was a purchased cover by Coach!

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  16. IMHO said:
    . YTB wanted reprints of the article written about Coach Tomer for our troops, so YTB purchased the entire magazine and the Saturday Evening Post agreed to put Coach Tomer on the cover of these reprints and make them the August Edition. Everything else about the magazine -- including the article written about Coach Tomer -- is the same in both the copies with Meredith on the cover AND in the copies with Coach Tomer on the cover.

    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me that Tomer wanted the reprints for the little YTB troopers and didn't LIE to the Saturday Evening Post saying he wanted them for our 'troops' meaning the brave men and woman putting their lives on the lines overseas..

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  17. He wanted them for the troops? I think that is misleading. Troops as in the zombies yeah. But not the armed forces which many will take that comment as meaning. The editor probably didn't get that either.

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  18. "Coach paid for the cover. That is what we have been saying all along. I feel it is a little deceptive."

    Just like NBC paid to have Meredith Viera on the cover. So what??

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  19. Just as I thought - there is no middle ground here.

    Tell me, can anyone think of ANYTHING that YTB does right??? And not be sarcastic about it.

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  20. No NBC did not pay for the cover. The refused to allow the article if she was not. There is a difference. They exerted their influence and SEP accepted it. Coach exerted his wallet.

    The likeness of Viera needs to be approved by NBC on all public publications.

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  21. YTB does a helluva job recruiting.

    I said in a comment to a story, that if the suppliers woudl treat YTB online sales as referrals and affiliates --pay them $25 per booking or maybe 1% with ZERO benefits, perks and so forth; AND for the RTAs that actually consult with clients and book travel via the suppliers, allow them the commission on a tiered scale (like everyone) and then allow them the perks based on what they have earned and sold.

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  22. No, NBC agreed to have her do the interview ONLY if she was on the cover. They didn't PAY TO HAVE HER ON THE COVER. Big Difference.!!

    Honestly, I don't care. You want to be lied to and pay double the cost of the magazine because the old man is on the cover go for it. Your waste of money..not mine. Point is, the Coach's cover was never going to be sold on newstands..as everyone was told to go out and see.

    Denyse, Why don't you tell John how you feel about him PERSONALLY being behind the AG and the lawsuits. Thats what you are telling people over on WAHM. Which is completely hysterical...even John doesnt have that power. But whatever helps you sleep at night.

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  23. We are agreeing with you IMHO - Coach paid to have his pic on the cover and SEP complied. We agree on that okay? That issue, with Coaches picture, is NOT available on any newsstand. It's for YTB only. The last company I worked for did that with another publication for our yearly meeting. We loved it. But it was for US, no one else.

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  24. Eddie, great! We love it also.

    Lisa, I knew you were still lurking around. =)

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  25. IMHO--I just checked out WAHM and it does appear you are talking about me. In all seriousness, you probably ought to tread very carefully unless you have any proof.

    Did I get an embargoed press release? Yup? Did I tease about it the day before? Yup? Did I break it before ANY news outlet did at 1am? Yup.

    But a TTA from Maryland has ZERO influence on the CA attorney general. I don't even have any influence on the Maryland one unless I have been scammed by YTB. I have not; but it is my opinion that they are a scam.

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  26. Honestly John, the world DOES NOT revolve around YOU! Do you think you're the ONLY TTA I know???? Please.

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  27. IMHO

    I do not lurk. As a TA, I have as much right to be on that site as you. I read the posts and laugh mostly. Found it amusing that both the forums were locked down for arguing.

    But blaming John for the AG CA lawsuit is just plain funny. The AG started that process 18 months ago, this blog wasn't around then. The blame should be placed on your company and no-one else. They are responsible for their own mess.

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  28. Is that a threat John dear? Sound familiar?

    I've been called all kinds of things outside of my name here and even spoken about where I live - "crack central" without proof. And yet one needs proof in speaking about you, if I were???

    But I absolutely was not.

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  29. Denyse: Yesterday I asked you a very simple question and I guess you didn't see it. I'll respectfully ask it again. Do you have anyone on your team that makes a six figure income per month? That would include yourself and decimal points don't count.

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  30. Denyse...

    3:28 "2. Its a waste of my time. I have to work - MY YTB BUSINESS IS FULL-TIME. This makes no money for me!

    Stopped in while I was having lunch! Great day!"

    Post 2 - Aug 15, 2008 3:31:00 PM
    Post 3 - Aug 15, 2008 4:17:00 PM
    Post 4 - Aug 15, 2008 4:42:00 PM

    Oh you get my point....don't quit your dayjob, because you aren't selling travel I can tell you that much. Probably enough time to hop over WAHM and spew your dribble over there, and back to here.

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  31. "Its a waste of my time. I have to work - MY YTB BUSINESS IS FULL-TIME."

    I am confused Denyse. Yesterday you said you had to go to work to your full time job which was not YTB and today you are saying YTB is your full time job? Now, which is it? Or, are you talking out both sides of your mouth again?

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  32. "Denyse: Yesterday I asked you a very simple question and I guess you didn't see it. I'll respectfully ask it again. Do you have anyone on your team that makes a six figure income per month? That would include yourself and decimal points don't count."

    I have responded to this previously. I make a 6 figure income and 4 people on my team make 6 figures. For the first 2.5 years with the company, I focused solely on booking travel. I, therefore, don't have hundreds of people on my team.

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  33. "Oh you get my point....don't quit your dayjob, because you aren't selling travel I can tell you that much. Probably enough time to hop over WAHM and spew your dribble over there, and back to here."

    It's ok that others here can multi-task and I can't???? Wow. I booked 6 vacation packages today. Thanks.

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  34. "I am confused Denyse. Yesterday you said you had to go to work to your full time job which was not YTB and today you are saying YTB is your full time job? Now, which is it? Or, are you talking out both sides of your mouth again?"

    AT, I guess you are confused. Or maybe we'll just blame it on the medium.....confuses some people if you don't speak directly with them.

    I never said I had to go to work TO A FT JOB. I said I had to go to work. Go back and pull up the post if you need to. YTB IS my FT work.

    I've also said this before. I left my 25 year career in health administration to do YTB FULL TIME. Is it clear now??

    Because I say I have to go to work automatically means I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth??? whew

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  35. http://www.travelagentcentral.com/professional/ytb-wins-support-former-asta-president-9721

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  36. Here is the rest.

    ort-former-asta-president-9721

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  37. He must have been paid to say that!

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  38. firemedic: you know they've already chewed that up!!!

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  39. I guess I didn't see that yet. I am sure it has though.

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  40. I'm sure he was. He was paid to "train" people. He's not going to risk losing a easy payday by saying bad things about YTB. You people are so clueless.

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  41. YTBSCAM has got it figureed out! He is sure he was paid! Oh, but of course. He certainly couldn't make those statements by his own free will without risking a paycheck. I am sure losing a "payday" with YTB would have put him at great risk of losing his home so why not risk his reputation instead. But, now that he has thought for himself and come to the conclusion that YTB is not what some make them out to be, He must be crazy and he must be destroyed along with that unprofessional "clueless" rascally RTA's!!!

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  42. I'm getting real tired of being called clueless. I probably have more paid for education than you ever will - yet I'm clueless.

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  43. IMHO.....you ARE clueless, as so aptly shown by your above statement. Just because you went to college and/or have a degree doesn't mean you have commom sense or "have a clue" about anything. And having a "paid for" education can be worthless as well. I doubt, for example, a "paid for" education achieved from U of Phoenix can stack up against a "paid for" education from Harvard.

    FireMedic, the former ASTA president was not well liked while he held that office, and is thought of even less now. He and his wife sell their services to anyone that will pay them. That's what they do for a living now. Anyone in the type of business as that is NOT going to say something bad against someone they have dealing with, lest they lose their lucrative contract. Same thing with Mancini. Why would they risk losing their "payday" from ytb by saying something publicly against the person paying them?

    YTBScam is correct. Ya'll are ALL clueless!

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  44. Ainsworth - I guess you are right. We ALL should think like you since you and the TTA's are the only ones that "have a clue". God bless your insight! Like I said, anyone that actually supports YTB just has to be a "clueless" person and as long as YTB does business your way then maybe we can save the travel industry even though YTB came in long after the way the masses were booking travel. You will definitely go down in history as one of the martyrs that tried to save the travel industry and bring things back to the way it used to be done because your way is the ONLY way it should be done!

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  45. I'll type this really slowly...

    Booking travel isn't the issue...building downlines is.

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  46. "I'm getting real tired of being called clueless. I probably have more paid for education than you ever will - yet I'm clueless."

    Big deal you claim to have an education. So did Jeffrey Dahmer so did the Unibomber. A degree means squat if you have 0 common sense. And, from what I have read of your comments you all are really clueless. Don't like it here go over to another board where they have a sick love fest going on for you all...

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  47. So if and only if we think like you AT we become "clueful" and possess more common sense? But does that mean being bitter and insulting makes you more accepted in the travel industry?

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  48. firemedic-go back to your right wing nut job forums and leave travel to the professionals.

    BTW-It's been proven time and time again you have dished it out to others.

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  49. Time and time again? Really AT? Oh, and you are the professional? Professional? You represent the "professionals"? Wow.

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