This comment was made on the Yahoo Finance Boards last week. Take it for what it is worth:
I worked for the corporate office for two years as a senior level programmer. I am the one who set up the systems that now run the company and I had access to the top. I was there when the stocks went skyhigh and heard the comments with my own ears from Lloyd and Scott about what they were going to buy when the stocks reached a certain level. They have no intention, nor ever had any intention, of making this a serious company. All of the programmers (very talented programmers who have since left due to the company bull@#$%) always talked about why the hell they didn't let us build a true booking engine if they were truly serious about making the company into something real.
I can tell you without a doubt that they don't want a real booking engine because there never was and never will be any intention of the company being anything other than an empty shell that funnels money into the top tier that will be used up and thrown away.
They are amateurs that only know how to scam people.
The YTB cheerleaders will call me a naysayer or a disgruntled employee but that's ok because I have seen the wizard behind the curtain.
It is funny,he references the Wizard of Oz; because I feel the curtain is about to be pulled open on YTB very shortly and there will be a lot of exposure that will not be pretty. The saddest part is that virtually everyone in the program except for 1000 or so early adopters will lost what they have invested. They will have been promised a dream and it will turn into a nightmare.
At this point in time, I believe YTB is working a new money grab with the announcement they will be franchising in 2009. While they still have a receptive audience (recruiting is tanking and more on that later) they are pumping up the benefits of franchising--a concept they derided as third rate for years. I have suggested that a new franchise (with all the bells and whistles they claim) will sell (if they can sell it) for $5000. But to the RTAs that want to switch, they can do it for $2500 and YTB will finance it over a year interest free. Of course most RTAs are not making money as it is, but this promise, this carrot, will be enough to have many make the switch. This is potentially a $325M windfall for YTB. And then you add the other accessories that will be needed to "insure" your success like manuals, support, training, collateral--all at a price!
Once established as a franchise, the pressure is off of YTB to perform in the realm of travel. It is all put on the back of the individual franchisee who will likely see lower commissions because they are based on INDIVIDUAL production. The franchisee will pay a monthly franchise fee or a royalty or both. But they will not realize this until they have bought into the franchise and are likely locked into a multi year contract.
They say that the existing program will remain. Probably. They cite the Bill of Rights and the copyrighted compensation plan. Can anyone tell me what the plan is tied to? Recruiting. So if the recruiting falls off like it is, there will be less and less compensation. They pay per the plan and the BOR, but once it dwindles to nothing, the Reps will leave. YTB will not have violated the plan in any way. All they have done is say I will guarantee you a commission as long as there is a sale. No sale no commission. It is simple really. The existing Reps will be able to continue to sell the Busiess Opportunity but not the franchises. There are a lot of legal issues with franchising that are not a part of a Business Opportunity. Is it an odd coincidence that YTB has been quietly hiring Business Development Managers with franchise sales experience for the last six months?
I mentioned the decline in recruiting. YTB is on the verge of losing more people than they are bringing on. I suspect that we will not see this in the financial reports until the third quarter of 2008. When Coach could not sell out his two cruises he opened them up to military and pastors for free--of course they all received a sales pitch and if given a free cruise, I might be inclined to cut a check for $500 to join and "repay" him. 2Q is safe, but 3Q might show a different tale.
Meanwhile, the senior management has been filtering money to a privately held sister companies. Take for example this foam stage prop. Depending on whihch report you believe, YTB is paying $6 million or $8 million dollars to have this produced. Seems extreme to me. But what you don't know is that the manufacturer of this monstrosity is a privately held sister company owned by Coach, Scott and Kim. So, they have effectively transfered up to $8 million dollars to a very small company controlled by three insiders. Sure there is cost, but $8 million? I recently heard that Reps and RTAs were required to buy paper collateral from this same company. Do you want to venture who will be preparing all the training manuals and collateral for the franchise? Would anyone care to venture if the prices might be inflated? Do you think the private company, absent an investigation, is out of reach of the SEC?
Right now, the existing Reps are scrambling. and the blogs are alive with fear and trepidation. One in Michigan even went so far as to say he was selling the franchises (tough to do since it is not a done deal yet) for $449 and he portrayed the site as an official YTB site. He issued a press release that indicated he was speaking on behalf of YTB and only disclosed he was not in the "about us" paragraph at the bottom. Although I am not sure he fooled anyone--while YTB may be a scam they do put on a good face and I have never seen "registerd By Go Daddy" on the bottom of one of their sites. But YTB never claimed to have the brightest bulbs in the pack.
So there you have it--my take on the YTB debacle. In terms of travel, the numbers are down, they will try some more smoke and mirrors with the franchise allowing them to filter money into a private company and prepare to move on to the next thing. I believe that they realize travel may have been a mistake. There is not a lot of margin, they have essentially failed in their expansions (not to mention the other programs like Olympics, 2 Fly Free, Cruise With Coach, etc.) and are positioning to move on. A recording of the Coach indicated that with franchising he wanted to be the biggest supplier of "products" and to take on Walmart and Sam's Club. There was no mention of travel. I have said for a long time that I felt they woudl use travel as long as they could, and tht time may be here!
Interested in reading some of the fearful blogs? Check it out here, here, here, here, here and here!
Either John has some bad links (doubtful) or the YTB Rep was shut down---good for YTB! But the fearful blog links have also been pulled too. Looking at their intended destination I imagine they were nothing more than the standard lies of wealth and riches and the bashing of Traverus. (yes, you can hover over the links and see where they were supposed to go)
ReplyDeleteDoogie is all done self nominating and selp promoting himself on the blogger awards and has reverted back to mistruths.
He says that TTAs have said that YTB helod onto money because suppliers paid at time of final payment. I don;t recall that ever being said, but I do know that CRUISES do. Tour operators never did because they typically don;t own their product. But Doogies is not a good one to read anything (I guess the public schools in GA might be better than in Pittsburgh) he just goes on about how he exposed "another lie"
Can anyone tell me a "lie" he ever exposed that the TTAs or John did not come clean upon? Only one I can remember is Candi May...and her "awards" are still dubious in my mind. But what about the other stuff Doogie has been called out on? Not a peep.
And I particularly like this phrase he uses towards the bottom
But I regress. Not everyone in the Agent community is obsessed lOL REGRESS. I think the term you want is DIGRESS!!!! Reading that blog is sort of like watching OSwald Bates on In Living Color
"Unfortunately, we could not impregnate everyone. It is simply beyond our colonic threshold." "I believe it was Plato...No, excuse me, I mean Play-Doh...who stuck to the wall when he said one must not put one's transvestite in jeopardy if one is to become a cunning linguist". "Hey, I ain't no venereal fuddrucker!"
And Doug..one more thing....you have been crowing about how RCCL is in the tank because YTB did not "save" them. Well, what did YTB do for Rockwell tours? I never sold them, but apparently they were a top tier supplier for YTB?
Noticed the links down also. I guess this another one of those "rogue" YTBers. Trying to scam people into joining a franchise which hasn't even been announced. But I'm sure people will come in here defending them to death. Typical day, typical YTB.
ReplyDeleteOk, a few points, first off, the links are down because the blog posters have posted new blogs since. Just click the link it suggests and you can find the blog post that John references.
ReplyDeleteSecond, the link about the REP who made promises. I am glad his site was pulled. We don't need that in YTB.
Third, The comment basically drooling over Doug's blog. Very funny, how that becomes the first comment here.
Fourth, the thread post John posted is great. Go to yahoo finance and read all that guy's posts. He spends hours on yahoo finance blasting YTB. SHort of going in to HQ with a shotgun it is typical behaviour of disgruntled former employee syndrome.
Fifth, the title of this blog "damage control" implies that YTB or people within would be trying to "fix" something or "Backtracking". Nowhere in the blog does John even reference that. I am too tired to go on.
I have a question....
ReplyDeleteFranchisees typically get territories. If they are going to continue under their current business model, and add franchises, how the heck are they going to determine territories? Would you buy a franchises without an IATAN number, and with a territory in which an rta could still sell? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Josh, thanks for assuming you know where the links pointed. The links were pointed to specific posts that have been removed.
ReplyDeleteRegina had one all about how much money you would make with YTB versus the other ones. SHe had another one "pre-warning" about what other MLMs will say to sway you away from YTB and displayed "Facts" as she dreamt them showing how directors in YTB make more money than directors in Traverus.
Gail Travel went on about how YTB is the Rolls Royce of MLM and Travelrus was the Kia. And how much YTB paid more and so forth.
Mike the travel guy (yeah right) still has his up there as does Denyse and Doug.
The offending website was taken down. You say you are happy because you don't need that in YTB. Well Josh, you have it in YTB. Just look back at the mouthpieces there have been.
Earl
Proud to be
Seligman
The list goes on, and when you have 99% of the people not making money in YTB why are you shocked when someone makes a money grab to try and make some. YTB has ZERO control over the reps and I suspect there are many other sites out here just like this
Kate, I too would like to know the answer to the territory question. Maybe since they sign up friends, neighbors and family, it's the lot the house sits on? Or the office they take as a tax deduction? It would have to be a very tiny space in order not to encroach on another franchisee's territory...
ReplyDeleteThe MLM business model can (and does) work well when the MLM company controls the product (manufacturing/ordering, materials used, sets the prices, etc.) because they can control the profit margin (for the company and the individuals) without focusing on recruitment as a major source of income. In some of these models there is NO money paid to the sponsors at all for recruiting - they only make money off their downline when they and their downline SELL THE PRODUCTS.
ReplyDeleteIn travel however travel agencies don't control the product and don't control the profit margin on the product. So MLMs in travel have to focus on recruiting, not selling the product, as their MAIN form of income (yes, they have a proeduct and some do sell it, but it is far from the major source of income for the company or most of the individuals).
Tupperware hasn't given the storage container industry a black eye. Pampered Chef isn't the black sheep of the kitchenwares industry. Premier Designs and Cookie Lee aren't the pariah of the jewelry industry. But travel MLMs are damaging the travel industry because many of them DO pass themselves off as travel agents to an unsuspecting public that doesn't know any better. Many of them DO tout the "perks/benefits/discounts" without earning them. Many DO focus more on recruiting than selling travel. They are the scourge of the industry as a result.
Will franchising change any of this? We won't know until it happens....
I returned from vacation and got caught up with what's going on in YTB and it doesn't look good, but it does look hilarious.
ReplyDeleteI am very confused about In My Humble Opinion's website though. She says that YTB is going down and reps should have flown the coop when warned. Then she goes on to say that YTB is going down as trailblazers in the industry. When I continued on reading her recruiting site, she says she is going into the wireless industry. Make that MLM wireless. She has pictures of herself and husband taking the free minister cruise so I assume her husband is a preacher man and one with a lot of bling. To me the entire blog is contradictory but that's what YTB reps are all about.
Then we have Doug's bog. Sorry but I just can't go there after I read that he was nominated for best travel blog. What travel? When I used to read it, there was never anything about travel.
If a RAT pays $2,500 for a franchise then they deserve to lose their money. The letter from the site builder guy appears to be right on.
Correction to my post. I meant to say that In My Humble Opinion's blog says that RATS should have flown the coop, not reps.
ReplyDeleteHello whining TTAs.
ReplyDeleteThis is a test.
I am SO sorry that I have been absent from this wonderful, uplifting blog.
ReplyDeleteI have been busy vacationing prior to the YTB Convention.
Yes, the YTB Convention that has the TTAs buzzing like the women on "The View".
This blog could be a case study in how boring the lives of the TTAs on this blog really are.
John Frenaye could not be further from reality in what he is spouting today about YTB's future.
But that is par for the course.
A disgrunted programmer who knows EVERYTHING about the inside workings of YTB.
Oh, yes.
So, so credible.
It is true because HE said so.
Right.
The only people confounded about YTB's future franchise model are the clueless TTAs on this blog who think they know something outside of charging their service fees.
I will be more than happy to compare notes with any whining TTA (let's take, for example, Kate) . . .
YTB's recruiting numbers are going to flourish post-convention.
Right through the end of 2008.
Let's remember that you heard it first right here on the Whining TTA Blog on 7/28/08.
Because YTB and TRAVEL is truly a GREAT MIX!
Hey Mix you horse's patootey haven't you heard about Greenpeace and the rest picketing the environmental nightmare you call a foam statue? And, what about YTB owning the company that made it? Paying themselves and writing it off. Sounds a little unethical. Oh, and let's not forget the RATS are abandoning ship faster than a speeding bullet. Yea, Mix we have our panties in a wad over all of this. NOT! We actually work for a living something you and the rest of your cohorts know nothing about....
ReplyDeletesomething tells me that guy is more credible than you are mixed-up.
ReplyDeleteLoL, ok after being away for a week it's taken me all day of actual work catching up. I havent gotten to this weeks blogs, which I will do later.
ReplyDeleteI find it amusing that its always "us" that are wrong, and when "former" YTB people state their sides, they are wrong too. Wow, everyones wrong except for Doug and Mix I guess. Take your blinders off...
Martha, thank you for your comments! Before you start speaking about people, it may be well worth your time to learn something about them.
ReplyDeleteYou said you "assumed". I remember what my mother used to tell me about "assuming" - hope you know also.
You spoke about my husband's bling. You see one watch and one ring in that picture - WHAT BLING?? Is that anymore than what anyone else wears?? How dare you!
AND I never mentioned RATS. But that's ok. We know who we are. =)
Greenpeace and EarthFirst -
ReplyDeleteMainstream USA has little time for these enviromental whackos.
Let them protest.
It will be fun.
It will show them for who they are.
Not surprised that the TTAs on this site are joining forces with the far-left enviromentalists.
Whatever it takes to come against that dastardly YTB.
So, lets put Mixed Up in the 'for' column of approving wasteful spending, producing environmental hazards, and questionable financial ethics. YTB to the core.
ReplyDeleteAnd we will put eddie in the column "for" the left-wing . . .
ReplyDeleteEarthFirst and
Greenpeace
I will gladly set to the right of these organizations.
All day long.
YTB&TAGM--I am curious as to why you feel we are "joining forces" with the environmentalists.
ReplyDeleteI think the statue is a waste, a way to shelter some money, and a glorious display of egotism. My bone with YTB is on the travel end.
So, why are you so surprised that someone else has an issue with the way TTB operates?
To my knowledge, it was YTB and the out of control ego that probably brought their attention. Certainly now a bunch of "whiny TTAs".
But it will be interesting to see if anything materializes from all the talk.
I got a sneak preview of the bug YTB/UPS announcement at the convention. BIG news...
So your basically saying you don't give a bleep about the environment? Its ok to waste millions of dollars on something that is harmful to the planet in which you live. Do you have children? Do you want them growing up being able to breathe or go outside? I hope they do protest, and rightfully so. If YTB actually cared about the military etc, they should have donated the cash instead of building a huge POS. The money would've helped far more.
ReplyDeleteIf believing in careful spending, promoting a clean environment and ethical business practices make me 'left' of you...than that's a good thing.
ReplyDeleteWhy not call up your local landfill and see if they would like 5 tons of styrofoam.
UPS wants our business, just like Sprint, Staples and Dell.
ReplyDeleteThey are becoming one of our RTA Advantage vendors.
Not a bad idea at all.
RTAs will get a discount on UPS Next Day letters.
Allows the average home business owner to access discounts usually only available to corporate customers.
Next Day Letters at $12.00 a pop, including Saturday Delivery . . .
A good deal, if you ask me.
Another of the many, many advantages of having a YTB Travel Business.
The tax-deductible $49.95/mo goes a long way.
WOW - We get all that too, but at better prices (next day UPS - 9.95) We have FEd Ex too as they are better for overseas. I don't have to pay 49.95 a month to get it either but if paying makes you feel better, go ahead.
ReplyDeleteI also heard that Gerry Cahill was making a surprise stop to announce that in 2009 Carnival will be supplying brochures for free!
ReplyDeleteImagine - free brochures. Mixeds heart must be soaring with joy! I hope they aren't the 2007 ones!
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of this convention - Do the vendors attending supply lunches and dinners? Did you get a discount on your air? Are hotels discounting their rooms for you? This is standard in our, and other industries.
TravelLisa said -
ReplyDelete"So your basically saying you don't give a bleep about the environment? Its ok to waste millions of dollars on something that is harmful to the planet in which you live. Do you have children? Do you want them growing up being able to breathe or go outside? I hope they do protest, and rightfully so."
I REALLY feel your pain, TL.
You will LOVE our new Home Office, TL, the enviromentalist.
Built on the new construction standard, LEED . . .
the nationally accepted benchmark for the design, contruction and operation of high performance green buildings.
Is your host company setting the standard for LEED constuction?
Are you using cloth diapers with your lttle one?
Say "HI" to Uncle Al when you see him, TL.
eddie -
ReplyDeleteGosh darn.
You beat us on that one.
I guess you deserve some special benefits for sitting behind a desk all day long with your special-issue TTA phone headset.
YTB&TAGM--seems rather hypocritical to me. Building a green building and at the same time commissioning an environmentally unfriendly stage prop that consists of 5 tons of styrofoam at a cost of $8M
ReplyDeleteI don't use a headset. And my little agency beats YTB on most things important to selling travel and offering customer service. You make it easy for me.
ReplyDeleteScratch the headset.
ReplyDeleteKeep the sitting on your bottom behind the desk all day long.
Glad you enjoy it.
John "Green" Frenaye -
What an amazing conversion to the green crowd you have made.
I'm sure you have always been an outspoken supporter of enviromental causes.
I would love to read some of your green-themed writings from the past couple of years.
Never said I was green, but thanks for asking....here you go
ReplyDeletehttp://eyeontravel.blogspot.com/2007/12/its-not-easy-being-green.html
And I see Denyse has taken her post down as well. You know the one about YTB Going DOWN (in history as the end all and be all).
ReplyDeleteWhat's the matter guys, are you not so sure of your convictions? Were you told to stop bragging? Why the sudden change of heart. Denyse? Gail? Regina?
There is exactly two things deleted from this blog--one was an RTA's RTA number at the request of Proud and the other was a series of 20 comments that said "YTB Rocks" or somethign like that.
I find it lends a sense of credibility--you may not need to agree with the opinion, but I am not afraid to stand by mine!
I find it odd that all of those were removed also. Strange things going on. I'm sure it will all come to light soon enough.
ReplyDeleteIt sure will!!!! =)
ReplyDeleteIn My Humble Opinion said that I "assumed" that I need to know what I'm talking about. So Denyse, was I wrong that your husband is a preacher? I think he is and I think you went on that free cruise because of it. Am I wrong? On your blog it says that one of your links is PrecherWyf. Does that or doesn't that translate to Preacher Wife? That is all I assumed and I think I assumed correctly because of the cruise and your beliefs. If I am incorrect, please correct me. The cruise was free, right?
ReplyDelete