MLM and Travel It's No Good! YTB, TraverUs, GTI, World Ventures. All no good for the travel industry!
MLM and Travel It's No Good! YTB, TraverUs, GTI, World Ventures. All no good for the travel industry!
MLM and Travel It's No Good! YTB, TraverUs, GTI, World Ventures. All no good for the travel industry!
Tuesday, July 8, 2008
Cruise To Cash
Wow, now this is some marketing. I am sure all the cruise lines are loving these two representing them. First it was lime green t-shirts claiming that they got there for free, and now this....
I thought it was kind of clever since it's so accurate in the way YTB presents itself. At least they weren't screaming like most do. Yo yo yo, bro dawgs.
What's YTBs next venture foam sales? Travel, websites, cars, flowers, golfing and the newest release..FOAM sales! There is a billions to be made in the Foam business and you can get in on it too!
Yes the foam, great for the environment. Really quite stupid to pay $8 million dollars or whatever the insane amount was for a stupid statue for a weekend convention thats completely HARMFUL to the environment. Smart move really.
Foam statue is quite cheezy. I don't know whos bright idea it was, but it makes me laugh more than anything. The idiots at the top really thought this would prove how patriotic they are? This just makes them look even more foolish. Yeah for the soldiers lives you present this foam statue in their honor? You know how f'in stupid that sounds.
I can see it now, the statue with a t-shirt on claiming that the statue traveled all this way for free! Maybe it will have "Crotches" face on it. Then all the YTB minions can pray to it together, you know the Tomers are church people and all.
Maybe Crotch will write it off as a business expense...maybe he's looking into making some foam learjets to fly the empty moneybags, you know from the "billions" that YTB was going to make last year, according to the throng of minions.
Anonymous said....It would be priceless if the news DID cover it ... from the "stay far away from these rip-off artist" angle. ;-)
It looks like you got your wish, sort of. Read below and the YTB people can weep, especially the corporate morons. It even mentions John.
Liberty's likeness linked to sales pitch
July 6, 2008
By DIANE KRIEGER SPIVAK Post-Tribune staff writer
Lake County is poised to receive a 130-foot monument intended to honor military, police and firefighters.
But the million-dollar, 50,000-pound replica of the Statue of Liberty is being funded by an Internet travel company whose reputation in the industry is less than pristine.
Here's the issue that could face local officials this year:
YTB International, an Illinois-based multilevel marketing company, commissioned Griffith-based Beryl Martin to build the 26-ton replica out of dense foam over a metal skeleton and ship the statue to its annual convention in St. Louis next month. Afterward, YTB plans to donate it to Lake County to be used as a memorial.
Lake County Sheriff Roy Dominguez has said he likes the idea, but wants to take a "wait and see" attitude.
Critics raise questions
Since YTB's offer, however, questions have been raised about the company's reputation and business practices.
Although no charges have been filed, YTB International -- also known as YourTravelBiz.com -- is being accused of being a pyramid scheme that entices potential recruits onto the bottom rung of a multilevel marketing operation that promises much but delivers little.
YTB officials defend the company's practices, arguing that its detractors are those with conventional storefront travel agencies who can't compete with emerging Internet travel. They say they pay out millions of dollars in commissions each year to some 140,000 referring travel agents who sign up to sell travel packages and save money on their own travel.
But critics say only a handful of YTB's agents -- recruited by other agents -- ever make any real money and that the company is a sham.
Peter Stilphen, founder of the Professional Association of Travel Hosts, said YTB "is destroying the travel business."
"The bottom line is, YTB is not really in the travel business," Stilphen said. "They're a multilevel marketing company in the business of recruiting other agents and selling a Web site, like pyramid schemes, and they're diluting the profession."
John Frenaye, an MSNBC travel columnist who serves on the Communications Board of the American Society of Travel Agents, said the $13.4 million in travel commissions YTB paid its agents amounted to $106 per person.
"The vast majority don't earn anything," he said. "There's not a whole lot of travel being sold but your own."
Some earn big, some don't
J. Kim Sorenson, Presi-dent and CEO of YTB Travel Network, defended the company's practices and said referring agents can earn good wages.
"I've got people who don't make anything, and a lot who do well. We don't fire them for not being productive," he said. "We don't have quotas. The reality is: In sales, 80 percent of the people who try it don't do well. That's not unique to YTB."
Sorenson acknowledged that 80 percent of the company's revenue comes from selling travel Web sites to new recruits.
"My comment is, 'What's wrong with that?' We make our money on providing technology," Sorenson said. "It's difficult to make a full-time living in the travel industry these days. It's easy to make $5,000 part time. It's not easy to make $50,000 full time.
Brick-and-mortar rivals
Andrew Cauthen, president of Your Travel Biz.com, said "brick-and-mortar" travel agents "have gathered against YTB since online travel is surpassing those agencies."
Sorenson agreed, saying the company's critics are intimidated by YTB's success.
"Anybody doing something big is going to have somebody shoot at them," he said. "It's not unlike Wal-Mart and Microsoft. We make sure we're compliant with laws and work our business."
Still, local officials in Indiana may have reason for concern:
In 2006, the Florida Attorney General office investigated Rick and Brenda Ricketts, YTB's top directors, for alleged unfair and deceptive business practices in the sale of Internet travel opportunities.
In January, the Ricketts agreed to pay $450,000 to cover the cost of the investigation, without admitting guilt, and agreed to refrain from making false or misleading representations about business opportunities.
The Internet is peppered with hundreds of hits making unflattering references about YTB and its agents, including allegations that YTB agents bilked hundreds of travelers out of paid-for vacations.
In November, the International Airlines Travel Agent Network revoked YTB's accreditation because the company's agents were freelance contractors that YTB did not control. The network issues travel professional ID cards, the only travel industry credential that's recognized worldwide. YTB's appeal was denied.
Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines dropped YTB last fall because of its reputation as a "card mill" -- a company that cranks out travel agent ID cards indiscriminately.
"It was determined by Royal Caribbean Lines that YTB was a card mill passing on benefits intended for agents, allowing consumers to get the same benefits for not being a travel agent," said Royal Caribbean spokesman Harrison Liu.
"It seems like a lot of their agents were not producing sufficient bookings to justify that. That's not to say that YTB doesn't have legitimate travel agents."
'Fantastic company' pitched
Fliers distributed throughout Crown Point in recent months used a photo of the Statue of Liberty as a marketing tool encouraging people to "find out about the story behind this fantastic company that is donating this to Crown Point ... "
But no mention is made of recruiting travel agents.
When the Post-Tribune attended one such meeting at a local restaurant recently, several YTB representatives pitched joining the YTB team for a one-time tax-deductible fee of $449.95 that allows an agent to collect a travel commission, and a $49.95 monthly fee that pays for a Web site and newsletter.
The agents emphasized that YTB is not a pyramid, stressing that the company merely books travel packages. Agents pitched the idea that signing on with YTB could lead to free upgrades and up to 79 percent off their own personal travel -- all tax-deductible, they said.
Local officials in Indiana, faced with these facts, would have much to consider should the Statue of Liberty plan materialize.
Dominguez said the idea "sounds good," but he'll wait to see what happens.
"It would be phenomenal to have an almost life-size Statue of Liberty, at no cost to anybody, but I'm just kind of wait and see," Dominguez said. "I don't want to jump the gun. I don't know YTB. I don't even know what YTB stands for."
Contact Diane Krieger Spivak at 648-3076 or dspivak@post-trib.com. Comment on this story at www.post-trib.
I think it will spin into a conversation based on why someone would do this, and what they are going to do with this non environmental type of product. Could be a very bad PR decision. But what does he care, as long as makes those RATs happy thats all he is concerned about. Or maybe he will donate it to Carnival, and claim that he is investing in foam, to make statues of himself on every one of Carnivals ships!! The possibilities are endless!
Man, they took a long time to do that article. I think I spoke with her like three months ago.
I was reading the comments and this one was particularly amusing:
This John Frenaye mentioned in the article- I know well. We have had communications in the past. He does sit on a board but I want to also mention that he is a traditional travel agent and owns a travel agency. He asked me to drop YTB and come to work for him! Interesting. I have the documented proof. Another wash! He is upset at the mark we are making on the travel industry. We are not destroying the travel industry- YTB is becoming the travel industry. All the fact have not been revealed!
So, I am now looking to hire people away from YTB? If the person who wrote that is on here reading my blog, please send me the "documented proof"
"Sorenson agreed, saying the company's critics are intimidated by YTB's success."
Dear Mr. Sorenson;
I hate to break it to you buddy but I and the majority of the TTA's are NOT intimidated by YTB in the least bit.
I can not speak for the other TTA's but I personally am offended that you made this remark when it is not the truth. Furthermore, I am mad as hell that you have unleashed countless untrained, uneducated boobs to sell travel who don't care about the industry one iota. I am mad that YTB's focus is on recruiting and spreading rumors that the traditional travel agents are a dying breed. And, I am mad that you nor your underlings understand nor care to understand how the travel industry really works. You are a pariah Mr. Sorenseon and when the next big thing comes along you will be gone. You are all smoke and mirrors and no substance. Intimidated? Hardly! Mad, yes. Disgusted? Even more so.
"In 2006, the Florida Attorney General office investigated Rick and Brenda Ricketts, YTB's top directors, for alleged unfair and deceptive business practices in the sale of Internet travel opportunities.
In January, the Ricketts agreed to pay $450,000 to cover the cost of the investigation, without admitting guilt, and agreed to refrain from making false or misleading representations about business opportunities."
Whoa.... this is a big deal that everyone seems to have missed! The have "agreed to refrain from making false or misleading......"
And they are paying almost a half million dollars!? Looks to me like they were in a hurry to cover this up before it went to trial! Yes, I can see making an agreement without accepting guilt, but I don't think ANYONE who is not guilty would PAY THAT MUCH MONEY to make it go away!
As for the statue - you want to do something for the troops? How about giving that $1M to the USO, or better yet, setting up some sort of scholarship for their kids? Hey! I wonder whether giving it to the city makes it a tax deductable donation rather than a business expense? Could make a big difference. Or better yet, they may be able to make it a tax credit rather than a deduction - which is a whole lot more valuable for them!
How about care packages, donating to the USO, family funds, scholarships, etc. We all know there has to be some reason for "Crotch" to spend this much money.
As a veteran of the armed forces, thanks for the FOAM Crotch...NOT!
you frickin' whining tta's. and if Coach Tomer HAD spent his money the way you suggest - there still would be hell to pay from you. if you personally crucified the guy - you'd attack how he didn't bleed right! geez, such a self-righteous group of "professionals." you really make me want to see the error of my ways and join the ranks of your ilk. well, it does seem like the more you whine, the more scared you really sound. God bless you Coach!
Anonymous said...you frickin' whining tta's. and if Coach Tomer HAD spent his money the way you suggest - there still would be hell to pay from you. if you personally crucified the guy - you'd attack how he didn't bleed right! geez, such a self-righteous group of "professionals." you really make me want to see the error of my ways and join the ranks of your ilk. well, it does seem like the more you whine, the more scared you really sound. God bless you Coach! ----------------------------- Where did this 'Coach' title come from? Was he originally known as the Rev. Coach Tomer? We have every right to whine, bitch, and moan. You idiots are ruining the industry. You want to call us self-righteous? We don't claim to be holier than thou, religious zealots like the YTB RATS and reps. You morons are brainwashed by the cult leaders at YTB, especially Rev. Coach. Yes, we are scared. We're scared you people are going to screw it up even more and make us look bad. You better do more than a 'God Bless Coach' because he's going straight to hell. You've been fleeced long enough.
Haven't you RTA's learned by now that YTB stands for You're Totally Broke!
The only way people are making money is suckering other people into the business... and taking their money.
That is some major bad karma.
It is also kind of sick the way you RTA's worship "Coach".
RTA Zombies... "must protect Coach... must give him my money... must not question anything...must protect Coach...must make foam statue... must recruit... must recruit... giving money to Coach is good... Coach must have private jet to fly over foam statue.... must protect Coach".
"RTA Zombies... "must protect Coach... must give him my money... must not question anything...must protect Coach...must make foam statue... must recruit... must recruit... giving money to Coach is good... Coach must have private jet to fly over foam statue.... must protect Coach".
I would like to personally nominate the above comment as a Top Five Ignorant Comment of the Year 2008 for the John Frenaye Anti-YTB Blog.
And that is hard given the score of ridiculous posts from ytbscam of McDonald's fame.
Coach is Coach.
He got the nickname as a top producer for over 20 years with A.L. Williams . . . today Primerica.
Yes, he is a motivator.
Yes, he has a high energy level for a 74 year old.
No, he does not travel with body guards or an entourage.
He rides a Harley frequently.
He believes in his company and where he is going.
He sees the best in people.
Sometimes to a fault.
Pretty damning qualities if you ask me.
I love all of the "experts" who think they really know him and what makes him tick.
I will lay odds that not a one of the "experts" have ever met him.
He's really quite accessable.
What you see is what you get.
Little comments from little people.
Pretty typical these days from the upstanding TTAs.
He got the nickname as a top producer for over 20 years with A.L. Williams . . . today Primerica."
Yea and if you do your research Primerica was another rip off and Coach was one step ahead of the Feds. Ask any legit finacial planner, CPA or banker about Primerica.
Could any of you RTAs actually respond to the article? Are you not the least bit concerned about the Ricketts? How many millions did they make off you that they were willing to give almost a half million to the State of Florida to make criminal charges go away?
"Yea and if you do your research Primerica was another rip off and Coach was one step ahead of the Feds. Ask any legit finacial planner, CPA or banker about Primerica."
OK, let's talk to a banker.
How about Citibank.
Wait a minute . . .
Citi owns Primerica.
Whoops.
Do some "legit" financial planners not like Primerica?
You bet they don't.
Because Primerica eroded their businesses.
It's called competition.
Fair and square.
But here's the rub.
Primerica has a MLM factor.
Now we are talking.
Let's call it a ripoff.
One step ahead of the Feds.
You don't like MLM.
So let's bring out the buzz words from the template . . .
Citibank is in bad financial straights if anyone keeps up with that news. I do believe the substandard loans offered by Primamerica were, in part, responsible for this.
Mix--care to take a guess as to what the largest and poorest investment Citibank had ever made it started in 1812
Care to take a guess what CEO was ousted as a result of the poor business practices of the above mentioned investment?
Care to take a guess at what "investment" is directly responsible for an estimated loss of $8 to $11 BILLION dollars?
Care to take a guess at to what "investment" was the cause of 26,500 Citi employees losing their jobs?
Citi acquired this "investment" in 1998 and it took only 10 years to ruin a company with roots dating back 196 years.
Save your googling. It was the acquisition of Primerica/AL Williams and the MLM model. Yes, MLM and lending/insurance is a bad mix!
But I am sure the founders of YTB are happy that they got out in time. ANd of course they took all they learned about ruining a business (industry) along with them and took all that financial and insurance knowhow and opened up a "travel" agency.
you are very naive if you think it would cost less than $450,000 to defend yourself all the way to and through trial. plust the year or two of emotional toll until it actually got to trial. it all comes down to $$$$ and not innocence/guilt the majority of the time on these kind of deals.
I know the cost of legal representation--I went through a divorce! LOL
But if one is innocent, one would nor plea bargain. Plea bargains are for those who admit that there is a great chance of being found guilty, but not a 100% chance, so it is a gamble---but since Ricketts already had the cash in hand (thanks to the RTAs) he could afford the payoff!
"Anonymous said... you are very naive if you think it would cost less than $450,000 to defend yourself all the way to and through trial. plust the year or two of emotional toll until it actually got to trial. it all comes down to $$$$ and not innocence/guilt the majority of the time on these kind of deals."
Wrong. You are naive. Almost a half million to basically make it go away? No, not if you are entirely innocent. I believe that there was enough to convict them and it was the STATE that did not wish to spend the money. Again, how many millions have they ade offyou poor schnooks only to have to pay it out to cover up their bad faith dealings? Could this be why they are no longer actively recruiting themselves?
LMAO. YTB is not becoming the travel industry, and I don't think hell froze over yet. So no reason for me to quit. :) YTB is right now only that annoying mosquito on us "dinosaurs". When they learn how to count and properly document their TRAVEL earnings, and reach the oh so Doctor Evil "one billllion dollars"..maybe they will progress to fly. Right now we are not intimitated by YTB. Well I'm not. Yes yes I know you were ranked #26 on the blah blah blah list, so what, my company was #2..who cares!. Did you sell anything, did you PERSONALLY make any money selling travel...enough to survive..not $96..or recruit money. Or are you just recruiting and swindling the uneducated masses and the IRS?
John is trying his best to spin that the problems at Citicorp happened because of the investment in Primerica.
Sorry, Charlie.
The problems stem from huge investments in subprime mortgages . . . just like Merrill Lynch.
The problems do not stem from the "insurance and investment" company of Primerica.
Primerica has been a GOOD investment for Citicorp.
They are now looking to sell Primerica for $7 Billion dollars to raise funds.
Life insurance companies are among the bidders.
"NEW YORK (Reuters) - Citigroup Inc (C.N: Quote, Profile, Research) has received the first round of bids for Primerica Financial Services, its insurance and mutual fund sales unit, drawing interest from several life insurance and private equity companies"
But maybe the investment companies will pull out because the crack reporter John Frenaye has uncovered the REAL truth about Primerica . . .
It runs its insurance and investment company with a MLM business model!
Oh my!
Cancel the bids.
Drop the value by half.
Schedule a fire sale.
MLM, that dastardly business model.
How could those insurance companies and private equity firms be so foolish to invest $7 Billion dollars in a MLM?
Remember this . . .
According to John and knowledgable TTAs, MLMs are ripoffs, one step ahead of the Feds, stealing 75 year old women's pocketbooks, full of felons and child rapists, robbing 7 year olds piggy banks . . .
Sounds like the crack reporter needs to go back to journalism school.
Or enable the BS blocker on the keyboard of his desktop.
Actually, the FT and WSJ, but that's ok. You go on about your life. By the way did you ever find out how much Primerica cost Citi to acquire and do the math on what a good deal it is?
I had a mortgage with Primamerica once....worst financial decision I ever made but I got out as soon as I could. I had a friend approcached by PA in the not too distant past. The PA agent actually suggested she inflate her earnings to qualify for more money so she could get a bigger house. The friend was too timid to buy that deal and luckily so as she could be on the street now.
You Tube Videos
ReplyDeleteCruise to cash 1
YTB 0
Sorry guys, they gots thugs and gangstas pimpin their stuff. Maybe Joystar can hire them?
This is disgusting. Shameful that the suppliers let this continue to go on. This is what you want representing you?
ReplyDeleteyo yo yo wassup dawg. we be croozin fo cash on de carnivals funships. me and my bitches and hos gonna have a paaaaarty
ReplyDeleteTotally unrelated...
ReplyDeleteJohn, congratulations on the piece in Newsweek! Good for you!!!
Gee, I don't see Newsweek printing anything about YTB?
CTA in MD
I thought it was kind of clever since it's so accurate in the way YTB presents itself. At least they weren't screaming like most do. Yo yo yo, bro dawgs.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if their hats are made out of foam?
ReplyDeleteWhat's YTBs next venture foam sales? Travel, websites, cars, flowers, golfing and the newest release..FOAM sales! There is a billions to be made in the Foam business and you can get in on it too!
YTB and Foam: A Great Mix!
Yes the foam, great for the environment. Really quite stupid to pay $8 million dollars or whatever the insane amount was for a stupid statue for a weekend convention thats completely HARMFUL to the environment. Smart move really.
ReplyDeleteFoam statue is quite cheezy. I don't know whos bright idea it was, but it makes me laugh more than anything. The idiots at the top really thought this would prove how patriotic they are? This just makes them look even more foolish. Yeah for the soldiers lives you present this foam statue in their honor? You know how f'in stupid that sounds.
ReplyDeleteI can see it now, the statue with a t-shirt on claiming that the statue traveled all this way for free! Maybe it will have "Crotches" face on it. Then all the YTB minions can pray to it together, you know the Tomers are church people and all.
Doogie claims that the netwrok news shows are all gonn be covering the convention. LIke it is news! LOL
ReplyDeleteANd says that UPS will be sponsoring the transport of the statue to the convention site.
LOL too funny
I'm still curious as to what idiot is footing the bill for all the gas for this caravan of foam?
ReplyDeleteAsk yourself...who's paying for all of this?
ReplyDeleteMaybe Crotch will write it off as a business expense...maybe he's looking into making some foam learjets to fly the empty moneybags, you know from the "billions" that YTB was going to make last year, according to the throng of minions.
ReplyDeleteDoogie claims that the netwrok news shows are all gonn be covering the convention. LIke it is news! LOL
ReplyDeleteIt would be priceless if the news DID cover it ... from the "stay far away from these rip-off artist" angle. ;-)
Anonymous said....It would be priceless if the news DID cover it ... from the "stay far away from these rip-off artist" angle. ;-)
ReplyDeleteIt looks like you got your wish, sort of. Read below and the YTB people can weep, especially the corporate morons. It even mentions John.
Liberty's likeness linked to sales pitch
July 6, 2008
By DIANE KRIEGER SPIVAK Post-Tribune staff writer
Lake County is poised to receive a 130-foot monument intended to honor military, police and firefighters.
But the million-dollar, 50,000-pound replica of the Statue of Liberty is being funded by an Internet travel company whose reputation in the industry is less than pristine.
Here's the issue that could face local officials this year:
YTB International, an Illinois-based multilevel marketing company, commissioned Griffith-based Beryl Martin to build the 26-ton replica out of dense foam over a metal skeleton and ship the statue to its annual convention in St. Louis next month. Afterward, YTB plans to donate it to Lake County to be used as a memorial.
Lake County Sheriff Roy Dominguez has said he likes the idea, but wants to take a "wait and see" attitude.
Critics raise questions
Since YTB's offer, however, questions have been raised about the company's reputation and business practices.
Although no charges have been filed, YTB International -- also known as YourTravelBiz.com -- is being accused of being a pyramid scheme that entices potential recruits onto the bottom rung of a multilevel marketing operation that promises much but delivers little.
YTB officials defend the company's practices, arguing that its detractors are those with conventional storefront travel agencies who can't compete with emerging Internet travel. They say they pay out millions of dollars in commissions each year to some 140,000 referring travel agents who sign up to sell travel packages and save money on their own travel.
But critics say only a handful of YTB's agents -- recruited by other agents -- ever make any real money and that the company is a sham.
Peter Stilphen, founder of the Professional Association of Travel Hosts, said YTB "is destroying the travel business."
"The bottom line is, YTB is not really in the travel business," Stilphen said. "They're a multilevel marketing company in the business of recruiting other agents and selling a Web site, like pyramid schemes, and they're diluting the profession."
John Frenaye, an MSNBC travel columnist who serves on the Communications Board of the American Society of Travel Agents, said the $13.4 million in travel commissions YTB paid its agents amounted to $106 per person.
"The vast majority don't earn anything," he said. "There's not a whole lot of travel being sold but your own."
Some earn big, some don't
J. Kim Sorenson, Presi-dent and CEO of YTB Travel Network, defended the company's practices and said referring agents can earn good wages.
"I've got people who don't make anything, and a lot who do well. We don't fire them for not being productive," he said. "We don't have quotas. The reality is: In sales, 80 percent of the people who try it don't do well. That's not unique to YTB."
Sorenson acknowledged that 80 percent of the company's revenue comes from selling travel Web sites to new recruits.
"My comment is, 'What's wrong with that?' We make our money on providing technology," Sorenson said. "It's difficult to make a full-time living in the travel industry these days. It's easy to make $5,000 part time. It's not easy to make $50,000 full time.
Brick-and-mortar rivals
Andrew Cauthen, president of Your Travel Biz.com, said "brick-and-mortar" travel agents "have gathered against YTB since online travel is surpassing those agencies."
Sorenson agreed, saying the company's critics are intimidated by YTB's success.
"Anybody doing something big is going to have somebody shoot at them," he said. "It's not unlike Wal-Mart and Microsoft. We make sure we're compliant with laws and work our business."
Still, local officials in Indiana may have reason for concern:
In 2006, the Florida Attorney General office investigated Rick and Brenda Ricketts, YTB's top directors, for alleged unfair and deceptive business practices in the sale of Internet travel opportunities.
In January, the Ricketts agreed to pay $450,000 to cover the cost of the investigation, without admitting guilt, and agreed to refrain from making false or misleading representations about business opportunities.
The Internet is peppered with hundreds of hits making unflattering references about YTB and its agents, including allegations that YTB agents bilked hundreds of travelers out of paid-for vacations.
In November, the International Airlines Travel Agent Network revoked YTB's accreditation because the company's agents were freelance contractors that YTB did not control. The network issues travel professional ID cards, the only travel industry credential that's recognized worldwide. YTB's appeal was denied.
Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines dropped YTB last fall because of its reputation as a "card mill" -- a company that cranks out travel agent ID cards indiscriminately.
"It was determined by Royal Caribbean Lines that YTB was a card mill passing on benefits intended for agents, allowing consumers to get the same benefits for not being a travel agent," said Royal Caribbean spokesman Harrison Liu.
"It seems like a lot of their agents were not producing sufficient bookings to justify that. That's not to say that YTB doesn't have legitimate travel agents."
'Fantastic company' pitched
Fliers distributed throughout Crown Point in recent months used a photo of the Statue of Liberty as a marketing tool encouraging people to "find out about the story behind this fantastic company that is donating this to Crown Point ... "
But no mention is made of recruiting travel agents.
When the Post-Tribune attended one such meeting at a local restaurant recently, several YTB representatives pitched joining the YTB team for a one-time tax-deductible fee of $449.95 that allows an agent to collect a travel commission, and a $49.95 monthly fee that pays for a Web site and newsletter.
The agents emphasized that YTB is not a pyramid, stressing that the company merely books travel packages. Agents pitched the idea that signing on with YTB could lead to free upgrades and up to 79 percent off their own personal travel -- all tax-deductible, they said.
Local officials in Indiana, faced with these facts, would have much to consider should the Statue of Liberty plan materialize.
Dominguez said the idea "sounds good," but he'll wait to see what happens.
"It would be phenomenal to have an almost life-size Statue of Liberty, at no cost to anybody, but I'm just kind of wait and see," Dominguez said. "I don't want to jump the gun. I don't know YTB. I don't even know what YTB stands for."
Contact Diane Krieger Spivak at 648-3076 or dspivak@post-trib.com. Comment on this story at www.post-trib.
I bet coach did not want to pay to ship it back, so this is a convenient, $8M tax deductibel trash run!
ReplyDeleteI think it will spin into a conversation based on why someone would do this, and what they are going to do with this non environmental type of product. Could be a very bad PR decision. But what does he care, as long as makes those RATs happy thats all he is concerned about. Or maybe he will donate it to Carnival, and claim that he is investing in foam, to make statues of himself on every one of Carnivals ships!! The possibilities are endless!
ReplyDeleteMan, they took a long time to do that article. I think I spoke with her like three months ago.
ReplyDeleteI was reading the comments and this one was particularly amusing:
This John Frenaye mentioned in the article- I know well. We have had communications in the past. He does sit on a board but I want to also mention that he is a traditional travel agent and owns a travel agency. He asked me to drop YTB and come to work for him! Interesting. I have the documented proof. Another wash! He is upset at the mark we are making on the travel industry. We are not destroying the travel industry- YTB is becoming the travel industry. All the fact have not been revealed!
So, I am now looking to hire people away from YTB? If the person who wrote that is on here reading my blog, please send me the "documented proof"
Sorry--have to use a Coleman---too funny
"Sorenson agreed, saying the company's critics are intimidated by YTB's success."
ReplyDeleteDear Mr. Sorenson;
I hate to break it to you buddy but I and the majority of the TTA's are NOT intimidated by YTB in the least bit.
I can not speak for the other TTA's but I personally am offended that you made this remark when it is not the truth. Furthermore, I am mad as hell that you have unleashed countless untrained, uneducated boobs to sell travel who don't care about the industry one iota. I am mad that YTB's focus is on recruiting and spreading rumors that the traditional travel agents are a dying breed. And, I am mad that you nor your underlings understand nor care to understand how the travel industry really works. You are a pariah Mr. Sorenseon and when the next big thing comes along you will be gone. You are all smoke and mirrors and no substance. Intimidated? Hardly! Mad, yes. Disgusted? Even more so.
So who is this RTA that you know well John?
ReplyDeleteRod, Doug or .....?
These people will SAY anything to make themselves look credible.
You work with Cruise Cash Family.... or you'll be swimming with the fishes!
ReplyDeleteGangsters... payoffs.... gifts....
ReplyDeleteMLM corruption at it's best!
"In 2006, the Florida Attorney General office investigated Rick and Brenda Ricketts, YTB's top directors, for alleged unfair and deceptive business practices in the sale of Internet travel opportunities.
ReplyDeleteIn January, the Ricketts agreed to pay $450,000 to cover the cost of the investigation, without admitting guilt, and agreed to refrain from making false or misleading representations about business opportunities."
Whoa.... this is a big deal that everyone seems to have missed! The have "agreed to refrain from making false or misleading......"
And they are paying almost a half million dollars!? Looks to me like they were in a hurry to cover this up before it went to trial! Yes, I can see making an agreement without accepting guilt, but I don't think ANYONE who is not guilty would PAY THAT MUCH MONEY to make it go away!
CTA in MD
As for the statue - you want to do something for the troops? How about giving that $1M to the USO, or better yet, setting up some sort of scholarship for their kids? Hey! I wonder whether giving it to the city makes it a tax deductable donation rather than a business expense? Could make a big difference. Or better yet, they may be able to make it a tax credit rather than a deduction - which is a whole lot more valuable for them!
ReplyDeleteCTA in MD
The foam statue is tacky, tasteless and a waste of money. I agree with CTA in MD. The troops need money rather than a foam statue.
ReplyDeleteHow about care packages, donating to the USO, family funds, scholarships, etc. We all know there has to be some reason for "Crotch" to spend this much money.
ReplyDeleteAs a veteran of the armed forces, thanks for the FOAM Crotch...NOT!
Where are Olescorekeeper, Proud and Mix today? I love how they disappear when topics like this emerge.
ReplyDelete"We are not destroying the travel industry- YTB is becoming the travel industry. All the fact have not been revealed!"
ReplyDeleteHoly hell, the day that day comes (which is when hell will aslo freeze over) will be the day I quit the industry all together. LOL
Yeah funny how OLE, Proud and Mix all dissapear at the same time, this isn't the first time either.
ReplyDeleteTravel Lisa,
ReplyDeleteTime to quit sweet heart!!!!
you frickin' whining tta's. and if Coach Tomer HAD spent his money the way you suggest - there still would be hell to pay from you. if you personally crucified the guy - you'd attack how he didn't bleed right! geez, such a self-righteous group of "professionals." you really make me want to see the error of my ways and join the ranks of your ilk. well, it does seem like the more you whine, the more scared you really sound. God bless you Coach!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...you frickin' whining tta's. and if Coach Tomer HAD spent his money the way you suggest - there still would be hell to pay from you. if you personally crucified the guy - you'd attack how he didn't bleed right! geez, such a self-righteous group of "professionals." you really make me want to see the error of my ways and join the ranks of your ilk. well, it does seem like the more you whine, the more scared you really sound. God bless you Coach!
ReplyDelete-----------------------------
Where did this 'Coach' title come from? Was he originally known as the Rev. Coach Tomer? We have every right to whine, bitch, and moan. You idiots are ruining the industry. You want to call us self-righteous? We don't claim to be holier than thou, religious zealots like the YTB RATS and reps. You morons are brainwashed by the cult leaders at YTB, especially Rev. Coach. Yes, we are scared. We're scared you people are going to screw it up even more and make us look bad. You better do more than a 'God Bless Coach' because he's going straight to hell. You've been fleeced long enough.
How enlightening!
ReplyDeleteI just read all of your comments after a busy day on the road.
You TTAs remind me of the women on "The View".
So full of themselves and trying so hard to out do the next TTA with one-liners.
Or a bunch of teenage girls talking about the new girl in the lunchroom.
A bunch of whining, sniveling, um . . . TTAs.
Our little 'ol company sure gets you worked up.
I love it.
YTB and TRAVEL: A Great Mix!
Haven't you RTA's learned by now that YTB stands for You're Totally Broke!
ReplyDeleteThe only way people are making money is suckering other people into the business... and taking their money.
That is some major bad karma.
It is also kind of sick the way you RTA's worship "Coach".
RTA Zombies... "must protect Coach... must give him my money... must not question anything...must protect Coach...must make foam statue... must recruit... must recruit... giving money to Coach is good... Coach must have private jet to fly over foam statue.... must protect Coach".
It is like a really bad "B" movie.
"RTA Zombies... "must protect Coach... must give him my money... must not question anything...must protect Coach...must make foam statue... must recruit... must recruit... giving money to Coach is good... Coach must have private jet to fly over foam statue.... must protect Coach".
ReplyDeleteI would like to personally nominate the above comment as a Top Five Ignorant Comment of the Year 2008 for the John Frenaye Anti-YTB Blog.
And that is hard given the score of ridiculous posts from ytbscam of McDonald's fame.
Coach is Coach.
He got the nickname as a top producer for over 20 years with A.L. Williams . . . today Primerica.
Yes, he is a motivator.
Yes, he has a high energy level for a 74 year old.
No, he does not travel with body guards or an entourage.
He rides a Harley frequently.
He believes in his company and where he is going.
He sees the best in people.
Sometimes to a fault.
Pretty damning qualities if you ask me.
I love all of the "experts" who think they really know him and what makes him tick.
I will lay odds that not a one of the "experts" have ever met him.
He's really quite accessable.
What you see is what you get.
Little comments from little people.
Pretty typical these days from the upstanding TTAs.
YTB and TRAVEL: A Great Mix!
"Coach is Coach.
ReplyDeleteHe got the nickname as a top producer for over 20 years with A.L. Williams . . . today Primerica."
Yea and if you do your research Primerica was another rip off and Coach was one step ahead of the Feds. Ask any legit finacial planner, CPA or banker about Primerica.
Could any of you RTAs actually respond to the article? Are you not the least bit concerned about the Ricketts? How many millions did they make off you that they were willing to give almost a half million to the State of Florida to make criminal charges go away?
ReplyDeleteParanoia, paranoia . . .
ReplyDelete"Yea and if you do your research Primerica was another rip off and Coach was one step ahead of the Feds. Ask any legit finacial planner, CPA or banker about Primerica."
OK, let's talk to a banker.
How about Citibank.
Wait a minute . . .
Citi owns Primerica.
Whoops.
Do some "legit" financial planners not like Primerica?
You bet they don't.
Because Primerica eroded their businesses.
It's called competition.
Fair and square.
But here's the rub.
Primerica has a MLM factor.
Now we are talking.
Let's call it a ripoff.
One step ahead of the Feds.
You don't like MLM.
So let's bring out the buzz words from the template . . .
One step ahead of the Feds, ripoff . . .
Just like a TTA talking about YTB.
And the TTAs have the buzz words down pat.
YTB and TRAVEL: A Great Mix!
Citibank is in bad financial straights if anyone keeps up with that news. I do believe the substandard loans offered by Primamerica were, in part, responsible for this.
ReplyDeleteMix--care to take a guess as to what the largest and poorest investment Citibank had ever made it started in 1812
ReplyDeleteCare to take a guess what CEO was ousted as a result of the poor business practices of the above mentioned investment?
Care to take a guess at what "investment" is directly responsible for an estimated loss of $8 to $11 BILLION dollars?
Care to take a guess at to what "investment" was the cause of 26,500 Citi employees losing their jobs?
Citi acquired this "investment" in 1998 and it took only 10 years to ruin a company with roots dating back 196 years.
Save your googling. It was the acquisition of Primerica/AL Williams and the MLM model. Yes, MLM and lending/insurance is a bad mix!
But I am sure the founders of YTB are happy that they got out in time. ANd of course they took all they learned about ruining a business (industry) along with them and took all that financial and insurance knowhow and opened up a "travel" agency.
you are very naive if you think it would cost less than $450,000 to defend yourself all the way to and through trial. plust the year or two of emotional toll until it actually got to trial. it all comes down to $$$$ and not innocence/guilt the majority of the time on these kind of deals.
ReplyDeleteI know the cost of legal representation--I went through a divorce! LOL
ReplyDeleteBut if one is innocent, one would nor plea bargain. Plea bargains are for those who admit that there is a great chance of being found guilty, but not a 100% chance, so it is a gamble---but since Ricketts already had the cash in hand (thanks to the RTAs) he could afford the payoff!
"Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteyou are very naive if you think it would cost less than $450,000 to defend yourself all the way to and through trial. plust the year or two of emotional toll until it actually got to trial. it all comes down to $$$$ and not innocence/guilt the majority of the time on these kind of deals."
Wrong. You are naive. Almost a half million to basically make it go away? No, not if you are entirely innocent. I believe that there was enough to convict them and it was the STATE that did not wish to spend the money. Again, how many millions have they ade offyou poor schnooks only to have to pay it out to cover up their bad faith dealings? Could this be why they are no longer actively recruiting themselves?
LMAO. YTB is not becoming the travel industry, and I don't think hell froze over yet. So no reason for me to quit. :) YTB is right now only that annoying mosquito on us "dinosaurs". When they learn how to count and properly document their TRAVEL earnings, and reach the oh so Doctor Evil "one billllion dollars"..maybe they will progress to fly. Right now we are not intimitated by YTB. Well I'm not. Yes yes I know you were ranked #26 on the blah blah blah list, so what, my company was #2..who cares!. Did you sell anything, did you PERSONALLY make any money selling travel...enough to survive..not $96..or recruit money. Or are you just recruiting and swindling the uneducated masses and the IRS?
ReplyDeleteAny other banks in trouble because of substandard loans?
ReplyDeleteAny of those banks use the MLM model?
Doesn't sound like a MLM problem to me.
John would like you to think that.
Explain the MLM component of Countrywide Mortgages, John.
Good try.
But that dog don't hunt.
YTB and TRAVEL: A Great Mix!
More on the spinmeister, John Freneye -
ReplyDeleteJohn is trying his best to spin that the problems at Citicorp happened because of the investment in Primerica.
Sorry, Charlie.
The problems stem from huge investments in subprime mortgages . . . just like Merrill Lynch.
The problems do not stem from the "insurance and investment" company of Primerica.
Primerica has been a GOOD investment for Citicorp.
They are now looking to sell Primerica for $7 Billion dollars to raise funds.
Life insurance companies are among the bidders.
"NEW YORK (Reuters) - Citigroup Inc (C.N: Quote, Profile, Research) has received the first round of bids for Primerica Financial Services, its insurance and mutual fund sales unit, drawing interest from several life insurance and private equity companies"
But maybe the investment companies will pull out because the crack reporter John Frenaye has uncovered the REAL truth about Primerica . . .
It runs its insurance and investment company with a MLM business model!
Oh my!
Cancel the bids.
Drop the value by half.
Schedule a fire sale.
MLM, that dastardly business model.
How could those insurance companies and private equity firms be so foolish to invest $7 Billion dollars in a MLM?
Remember this . . .
According to John and knowledgable TTAs, MLMs are ripoffs, one step ahead of the Feds, stealing 75 year old women's pocketbooks, full of felons and child rapists, robbing 7 year olds piggy banks . . .
Sounds like the crack reporter needs to go back to journalism school.
Or enable the BS blocker on the keyboard of his desktop.
YTB and TRAVEL: A Great Mix!
Not denying there are others in trouble because of sub-prime lending; but the majority of the issues at Citi can be traced to Primerica.
ReplyDeleteIt was a bum deal.
$7billion huh? What was the acquisition cost? Grab your calculator and let me know how much money they are going to make off of that.
Maybe since Coach has roots in the deal, he can take his travel sales and post them as collateral for 7 years and but Primerica....
"the majority of the issues at Citi can be traced to Primerica."
ReplyDeleteTotal BS, John.
The Primerica acquisition had nothing to do with Citi's demise.
Getting your information from a disgruntled whole-life insurance agent who doesn't like Primerica?
Whole life agents are the TTAs of the insurance world.
They will say or do anything to discredit those who rain on their little parade.
YTB and TRAVEL: A Great Mix!
Actually, the FT and WSJ, but that's ok. You go on about your life. By the way did you ever find out how much Primerica cost Citi to acquire and do the math on what a good deal it is?
ReplyDeleteI had a mortgage with Primamerica once....worst financial decision I ever made but I got out as soon as I could. I had a friend approcached by PA in the not too distant past. The PA agent actually suggested she inflate her earnings to qualify for more money so she could get a bigger house. The friend was too timid to buy that deal and luckily so as she could be on the street now.
ReplyDelete