Well on most cruises, the lines will not allow you to recruit. But I guess when you charter the whole ship, all bets are off.
Here is the blow by blow of the pastor recruitment effort on the recent sailing of Carnival's Fascination:
Coach provided a seminar for the pastors on "increasing church attendance". He explained that this business was built on biblical principles and they can be used to build a church/ministry as well.Get three people who have the same mindset as you and pour your heart, life and training into them. Have them get three people and repeat that process. Continue that method. Your church and your business will grow tremendously.Coach asked for pastors to give remarks. You should have seen the line of pastors waiting to give remarks (or preach...lol). They were so touched that a founder of a corporation would be so kind as to give them a FREE vacation. So many talked about him having the heart of a shepherd, being touched by the Holy Spirit to know they were in the right place and this business being anointed to change many lives. One pastor and his wife indicated they were going to be a part of the company but had no money at this time. Another pastor came behind them and started an offering to raise the money for them to get started!! I tell you it was just awesome! I can't tell you the number of people who were in tears. There were over 1000 people in that seminar.
If you would like to see a real photo from this cruise, you can
view it here.
In another forum, there was an analogy of YTB Reps to being "pimps". As to be expected, some took offense, but when I look at
this picture, one does need to wonder.
Well on most cruises, the lines will not allow you to recruit. But I guess when you charter the whole ship, all bets are off. Here is the blow by blow of the pastor recruitment effort on the recent sailing of Carnival's Fascination:
I don't know how anyone could say that a pyramid scheme is built on principals from the bible. What bible is that? Isn't it somehow morally wrong to decieve people into believing that they will travel for free, write off everything they own on their taxes, and make thousands of dollars a day just by joining a downline?
ReplyDeleteThe article also says, "Coach provided this cruise FREE to 500 Pastors and their spouses/guests AND to military personnel - just because he knows they need rest and relaxation. Isn't that nice? What other company is doing that?"
ReplyDeleteYet, the YTB 10-K says that these cruises were intended to be sold. Only when they couldn't sell them, they took a charge against earnings and decided to give away the space. Better to use the space for a rah-rah recruiting session then let the ship they chartered sail empty.
This just makes me ill. To use God and religion for recruiting is an abomination. I can't believe anyone would support such a hypocritical company that stoops this low. It's not right and is unethical.
ReplyDeleteMaxine, Jesus sent his followers out to recruit. All Coach was saying is his business model can be used to recruit in the church likewise.
ReplyDeleteJesus said if he left to go to the father, greater works would be done than if he stayed.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2014:12;&version=9;45;47;31;65;
Why? Because as long as Jesus was present with them the Holy Spirit had not been sent throughout the world. Jesus was alone on earth doing good works, but sending the Holy Spirit to the believers spread good works throughout the world by many which is what Jesus meant when he said, "greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."
It is not an abomination recruiting into the church by spreading the gospel. That's the way Jesus said to do it.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2014:26;&version=9;45;47;31;65;
Rod-You ass. Can't you READ! Coach is using God to recruit the damn down line. Quit quoting scripture.
ReplyDeleteYou really do need help. Please get some.
Since it was MY words that you all are talking about, let me be the one to clarify. I was there and in that seminar.
ReplyDeleteCoach did NOT use God to recruit any downline. There was NO recruiting on this ship at all!! Coach DID offer to have these people cruise FREE because it was in his heart to do so. Because of his heart and generosity, there were pastors who said they wanted to become part of the company. Those sentiments were NOT solicited, but freely given.
One cannot prevent another from expressing their views. That is a right. Maybe some or many of you don't understand God's principles, but one can tell a tree by the fruit it bears. This is why many of the pastors felt LED to become part of the company.
Let me also address kholmes. If YTB is a pyramid scheme, then you'll also have to consider TraVerus, Coastal, GRN, Travelencia and others pyramids. WE know they are not. A real tangible product exists, travel!
There is no deception for people to "believe they can travel for free, write off everything they own on their taxes, and make thousands of dollars a day just by joining a downline." ALL of these words are taken out of context and are just LIES.
One will never be able to travel for free. There are opportunities, however, to travel at reduced rates. Tell me you've never done it. I bet you can't.
You will never be able to write off everything you own on your taxes. The opportunity does exist, however, to write off many items. The IRS will also tell you that a home-based business has more tax deductions than any other type of business. Do you own a home-based business? Do you get all of your tax deductions?? If not, I'm sorry. Those who own HBB should not be penalized because they do.
NO ONE has ever said you can earn thousands of dollars a day by joining a downline. I can't say it's not true because there are many who are earning that. But it's not the norm for many people. This business is not about everyone earning millions. But it was created for people whose lives become better just by earning an extra $500, $1000 or even $5000 a month. You all are on this "Kick YTB" wagon, but if you would be honest with yourselves and have a heart for people who are struggling in this economy, you would be grateful for a vehicle that allows help for those who need it. Heck, probably even some of you need the help! But I know you wouldn't accept it because it's YTB!
Never should idiotic feelings get in the way of improving your lives, the lives of your children, the lives of your grandchildren and lives of family, friends and community.
That's just my humble opinion........
Denyse-Honey you are seriously deluded. It amazes me that seemingly intelligent people like yourself believe in the lies, inconsistencies and all the other BS spewing from Coach and the gang.
ReplyDeleteDo me a favor and google Jonestown and then google cults. And, while you are at it google Rick Ross he is a cult expert. And, read what they have to say.
Better yet take a look at this website:
http://attitudeadjustment.tripod.com/Essays/MLM.htm
Maxine, yet another person speaks without knowing the truth. You cannot profess to know anything about me. You have no idea what or who I believe in - I haven't spoken it.
ReplyDeleteWhat I DO believe in (and quote this) is that YTB has created a vehicle for people like myself to improve their lives. I CAN say that because I was able to leave a 25 year career in health administration and have more than doubled my salary since doing so. That is a FACT.
What will become of YTB? I cannot say, especially since people in this forum will still exist. I, by no means, believe any and everything. I also take offense at the cult statements. What I CAN believe in is what has already happened. So, when something has been a blessing to you and your family - you don't have SOME kind of faith in it???
As a person of faith, I believe in our bill of rights because they were created by persons of faith. I won't speak about your faith so maybe you wouldn't understand.
That's just my humble opinion.......
Wow, Jesus was on this cruise!!!???
ReplyDeleteHow come all these folks 'doubled their income' and none of the YTB financials support that?
Somebody isn't telling the truth.
I have read this blog for a long time and never once has a TTA ever said that they do not welcome newcomers to the travel industry....what they have all said is that to be a "Travel Professional" you have to do more than pay for a web site and sign up your friends, family and anyone else you know to do the same.
ReplyDeleteI am sorry but "Coach Tomer" is the one that keeps tring to turn water into wine.
First book a whole ship...try to sell it and when that does not happen turn it into a giveaway to ministers and service men and women, and send out a press release bragging about it.
Then when he has a boat full of people that can not go anywhere he offers to do a seminar...what was the name of this seminar?
And exactly how is YTB "improving your lives, the lives of your children, the lives of your grandchildren and lives of family, friends and community."
IMHO said, "If YTB is a pyramid scheme, then you'll also have to consider TraVerus, Coastal, GRN, Travelencia and others pyramids. WE know they are not."
ReplyDeleteActually, they all are. I agree with your first sentence but not the second. If one is, they all are. All MLM are pyramid schemes. Some legitimize by making some product sale the focus rather than the recruitment side the focus. Those you mention have not, at least until the YTB announcement that they may do away with RTA's and go franchise comes to fruition.
IMHO also said, "There is no deception for people to "believe they can travel for free, write off everything they own on their taxes, and make thousands of dollars a day just by joining a downline." ALL of these words are taken out of context and are just LIES."
ReplyDeleteThese words have not been taken out of context. They have been taken directly from YTB and other MLM presentations. Links to sites with these words have been posted. Please wake up and smell the coffee.
"I was able to leave a 25 year career in health administration and have more than doubled my salary since doing so. That is a FACT."
ReplyDeleteWhat were you a custodian making minimum wage? That is the only plausible explanation I can think of. Did you have benefits? What happened to those?
As to NOT knowing you I read your blog. I have a pretty good picture of who you are. Deluded that's what.
As to the cult status of YTB. Do your homework. Read up on it. You can read right?
And, your last statement:
"As a person of faith, I believe in our bill of rights because they were created by persons of faith. I won't speak about your faith so maybe you wouldn't understand."
What bill of rights? The United States? Or Coach's? I understand perfectly Coach is using you all and God and religion. If I were you and a person of great faith as you claim I would be offended. What's the saying, beware of false prophets.
"False Prophet will at first look good, even to religious people. Just like satan can disguise himself as an angel of light."
Show me in the Bible where it says God told Tomer to recruit and any mention of YTB.
As to the rest of your comment about me not understanding, the difference between you and I is I don't see the need to use my religion to recruit.
Denyse-Did God tell Coach to make a $6 million dollar foam statue too? Just think of all the hungry people and poor that 6 million would help. You and the rest of your ilk are nothing but a bunch of hypocrites.
ReplyDeleteGet this straight. Coach is not a saint. Nor is Coach the chosen one. Ok? Knock off the religious references because I don't buy it. Never will. You are deluded. You are brainwashed and you are very pathetic....
so did Denyse go on this cruise because she paid to go or did she go free cause she's a 'pastor'?
ReplyDeleteCan anyone be a 'pastor' if they want to be? Like anyone can be a travel agent if they pay 499 and 50.00 a month? I would like to be a pastor and have a wealthy flock and get donations from coach. Where do I sign up for this? do I get a website too? More important, where's my 'church' going to be? Can I do it from my home and pay NO taxes because it's a church and I am tax exempt? Or if my religion is pantheism then the world is my 'church' and no matter where I am or what I do I can be tax exempt. This is cool. Now, I just got to find 3 people....
It makes no sense to continue to banter back and forth, but I will comment on a few statements.
ReplyDeleteSomeone asked was I a custodian. I have two masters' degrees - the last one is a Master of Public Health.
Sally, I agree with you. I HAVE done more than get a website. I have taken steps to fully train myself in the travel industry. YTB HAS changed my life because even with a high 5-figure income we were still living paycheck to paycheck. I don't have to worry about that now. Nor does my family. And yes, I had benefits. I STILL have benefits.
Regarding the statue, if you read further you'll see its being donated after the convention.
Regarding the cruise, I booked paying people on the cruise, however, I did go FREE because my husband is a pastor.
Wait, you used to make a high 5 figure salary and were still paycheck to paycheck, now from your accounts you've doubled your salary. Right? Then why on earth would you still be living in Paterson NJ. I'm originally from NJ, Clifton actually, and Paterson is probably one of the most crime riddled cities I know. Don't give me the "well there are nice sections still" speech. When a cop tells you in the middle of night to NOT STOP AT A RED LIGHT to get out of town, you know its never a good thing. That to me would be my primary concern as a parent making all this newfound cash.
ReplyDeleteThe reason I live in Paterson (which deserves no response) is because my husband pastors in Paterson. Our ministries and missions have been in Paterson. I've also been very involved in Paterson and Passaic County politics.
ReplyDeleteWhy does money mean you have to move?? Our money helps a lot of people in Paterson. I'm actually FROM Baltimore City. Paterson is no where near as bad as Baltimore. If I still lived there, I would be in Baltimore. That's where he pastored.
My children are grown. But if you were concerned about their welfare while attending school, we were very involved in the school system.
.005 makes 6 figures with YTB. And they don't do it selling travel. There is no sense in bantering as I, for one, do not believe you.
ReplyDeleteThe foam figure has not got a taker yet, so the 'donation' is a bit premature. Would you want the upkeep on a foam figure? Why don't you put it outside your church? I'm sure Coach would 'donate' it to YOU.
Shame on you for going free and selling cabins to others! That's not christian when you could have gotten those cabins donated.
Sorry but I think you are full of hot air!
How many times do YOU travel agents take the comp cabins given to you when you book groups??? Please!!
ReplyDeleteSee you all on the high seas!! =)
Depends---if escorting (which is work) will take it. Otherwise the value is returned to the client as a price reduction, sometimes the TCs are raffled off, sometimes they are donated as "financial aid" for a group member, or sometimes just donated.
ReplyDeleteBTW, when you book a cruise, when do you actually receive your commission for it? Before sailing, after sailing?
No, I do not take the TC's for my groups, the comp cabins go to the group leaders and rightfully so. The ONLY time I take a TC is if I have to ESCORT the group and work on the trip. Matter of fact, I am travelling with a group of 40 people this sunday on a cruise, and the TC's went to the group leaders. I paid for my cabin to join them, as they are friends. I get commission on the booking, the TC's are (in my opinion) not mine to take.
ReplyDeleteI get the commissions upon the completion of the sailing and payment from the cruise lines. And I did work on this cruise.
ReplyDeleteWas the work escorting the group or helping the recruitment effort?
ReplyDeleteI wonder why there is not more outrage from the RTAs when YTB holds all that money for so long. Commission is paid within a week or two of the final payment which is typically 60 days prior to sailing. So, in essence the RTAs are giving YTB interest free loans for a minimum of 3 months.
That is a chunk of change for YTB.
YES, the work was escorting the group of people I booked for the cruise. It was NOT to assist any recruitment efforts.
ReplyDelete"I get the commissions upon the completion of the sailing and payment from the cruise lines."
ReplyDeleteWhich is it? Completion of the sailing or when the cruise lines pay? If YTB tells you these are the same they are lying to you.
In my humble opinion....I was looking at your team page (http://www.teamstargroup.org/) and on the front page, you have the Seligman thing.
ReplyDeleteHave you ever personally met Dr. Seligman? Can you tell us anything about him? I mean according to your web page, that is ALL you need to know about YTB. That and that the SEC scrutinized them..
Which as you also know is incorrect as YTB was a reverse merger. Yes the old company was scrutinized. It was just a change of management, so there never was anything that YTB or their management needed to do!
There is no which is it. I get paid once the sailing has been completed AND the cruise lines pay the company.
ReplyDeleteNot necessarily. Some cruises lines pay BEFORE sailing, so that would mean that YTB is holding your money.
ReplyDeletePeople still have that fraud Seligman on their
ReplyDeleteweb pages? Good Grief. Now I know this one is a YTB 'yes woman' too. Does no one with YTB do the famous 'due diligence' or do they just roll over and hand out their CC because coach was once a pastor...?
Wow! I would have to say that your opinion is a bit more than humble!
ReplyDeleteI don't know what rock you've been living under, but if you spend any time on You Tube or Craig's list you can find countless ads by people in YTB that claim that you can earn thousands of dollars everyday, travel for free, and write off just about everything imaginable on your taxes.
We've already had the definition of a cult on here several times, but in case you missed it, here it is again. I think you'll find a familiar ring to it. You can of course do your own research for confirmation:
1. Cults have a charismatic male leader who claims divinity or a special mission entrusted to him from above. Check
2. Cults believe they are above the law. (Who cares what IATAN thinks!) Check
3. The cult members set their members outside the regular community.People on the "outside" (also known as travel agents)are demonized. Check
4. The follow a form of Christian theology, or a blend of Christianty with another religion. Check
5.highly syncretic mixture of beliefs and practices. Check
6.Deceptive recruitment. Check
7.Humiliating circumstances. ( if you fail, its your fault, not YTBs) Check
8.Accumulation of wealth for personal purposes at the expense of members. Have you seen the jet? Check
I could go on but it looks like you have access to the internet and can check Wikipedia or another sorce on your own.
I was once in a travel training with some traditional travel agents who were discussing the free travel they had taken recently.
ReplyDeleteAre they lying when they claim that??
Wow! Master's Degree in Public Health and not making a good living. I am scratching my head at this one. I know plenty of people with Master's and they can take care of their family on their salary without having to join a cult er I mean YTB and pimp themselves. Just because you have an education doesn't mean squat. Obviously, you are easily manipulated and have little common sense. And, Jeffrey Dahmer notorious serial killer had a Masters. Plenty of people with Masters easily duped, commit crimes. Just because you have an education does not make you immune to stupidity.
ReplyDelete"Regarding the statue, if you read further you'll see its being donated after the convention."
And, if you read further they really don't want that 6 million dollar hunk of foam. What a waste of money. That money could feed a lot of people, educate the inner city youth and do a ton of good instead of being an eyesore hunk of foam no one wants. Again, I would be offended.
No, but they probably earned it by working in the travel business and serving their clients, rather than just pointing them to a website. I don't think you'll find a lot of travel agents who try to take advantage of free trips that they haven't earned. YTB uses it as a recruiting tool. Ever see a traditional agency use it as a recruiting tool? Nope? Ask yourself why.
ReplyDeleteDid you know in San Francisco they have banned stryofoam because it's so bad for the enviornment? Wonder what they think of the big statue.
"I was once in a travel training with some traditional travel agents who were discussing the free travel they had taken recently."
ReplyDeleteNo one gets to travel for FREE any more sweetie. We even pay for fams. You are mistaken.
If you really want to make money to support your family and not work for a sleazy outfit like YTB there are a ton of host agencies out there where you will get a better commission split and be treated better. Heck, I would even hire you as an IC if you really wanted to sell travel and not a down line. The problem is you don't.
I DID make a good living (salary), however, pastors don't make good salaries. So, yes, we were living paycheck to paycheck. I also kids, grandkids and an ill mother that we were supporting. Additionally I worked in a community non-profit agency. But you're right!! NOTHING makes you immune to stupidity.
ReplyDeleteRE: free trips, I've been in this industry now almost 4 years. I BOOK TRAVEL. I do that by servicing my clients, not just by pointing them to a website. So I feel I have earned whatever I have taken advantage of.
No, I've never seen a traditional agency use that as a recruiting tool - why would they?? But if you've heard people use that to recruit, it's THEM - not YTB!!!
If that was a lie, they told it!! Not I. We were at the same table. I even questioned it because I can understand reduced rate. They said FREE. And they owned a B&M agency.
ReplyDeleteAnd again, I DO BOOK TRAVEL.
The only free fams I have ever been on were free to me but not my agency. The agency paid for the fam and then paid me to go. I also had to sign a contract that upon my return I had to sell X amount to this destination or I would not be able to take a fam for a year. Just because the fam was free to the agent doesn't mean it was really free or that it didn't come with some requirements.
ReplyDeleteHumble---do you know Seligman? Can you give me his phone number or email?
ReplyDelete"No, I've never seen a traditional agency use that as a recruiting tool - why would they?? But if you've heard people use that to recruit, it's THEM - not YTB!!!"
ReplyDeleteIt is YTB! Go to craigslist. Go to WAHM and all the other internet sites, do a google search.
I really don't think you are stupid Denyse, I think you are probably way too trusting and have been duped. It's out there. You just have to search for it. Coach is wrong. The recruitment and free travel, tax deductions are promoted all over. Open your eyes.
As I said if you have been in YTB that long and truly service clients you can get into a legitimate host agency in a heart beat with a better commission split than you are getting, education, training and respect.
And by the way every fam I have ever been on have been work. From sun up to sun down and sometimes later. I have even gotten blisters on fams and on the last two to Mexico I did not even get time put on a bathing suit and go to the beach. Working fams are not vacations.
ReplyDeleteI truly understand Autumnrose.
ReplyDeleteMaxine, Coach is NOT recruiting. Thank you for your suggestions.
Humble, when IATAN dropped YTN that should have thrown up a big ole red flag for you. You claim to be a good God fearing woman, so what are you doing with a company that has been deemed as unethical by the travel industry? Don't take our word for it. Contact ASTA and see what they say.
ReplyDeleteThe people on this blog take a lot of crap from MLMers. We've said all along- if the mlms would have a minimum travel training standard, we wouldn't have an issue with it. If the people in the mlm were making a positive contribution to this industry and working hard, we wouldn't have an issue with it. But that's not what happened. YTB and the others have been nothing but an embarassment to our industry and have completely devalued professional travel agents everywhere.
If you want to be in travel, find a host with some credibility, and get to work.
Yes, he is. Please just google YTB and look at craiglist and WAHM and the other sites. The truth is out there. You are in denial.
ReplyDeletekholmes, I'm with an unethical for the same reason you're using a computer. No one has had more problems, issues, lawsuits, etc than Microsoft. I can safely say that everyone of us is using a computer.
ReplyDeleteMaxine, I'm on WAHM right now. Coach is NOT recruiting. REPs are recruiting - not Coach.
Praise the Lord and pass the Jesus Juice. Is everyone in YTB a Jesus Freak? Maybe they should visit one of the healers to cure their blindness.
ReplyDeleteYou're really trying to compare owning a home computer to being in a pyramid scheme?
ReplyDeleteThat's about the lamest excuse I've ever heard!
"Coach is NOT recruiting. REPs are recruiting - not Coach."
ReplyDeleteWell a couple of posts ago you said no one was recruiting. Which is it? And, yes Coach recruits plenty of documentation on that. He is not the second coming.
Again, if you are serious about travel you can make more money, better commission split, better training and education and RESPECTABILITY with a legitimate host agency. If you are so good in travel as you say you are you will have no problem getting in.
You say your FAMILY needs money. Why wouldn't you go somewhere where you will make more? YTB's commission split is ridiculous. The fees are ridiculous.
I don't think you are serious about travel at all. Most of the serious YTB RTA's and Reps who truly want to be in the business leave and go somewhere else. I think you just want to recruit your down line and take advantage of people. Because if you didn't you would leave and go somewhere else where you will make more.