2009 ID Card applicants are required to be enrolled in, or to have achieved a designation (ACC, MCC, ECC, ECCS) in CLIA’s Cruise Counsellor Certification Program. Attainment of an ACC designation requires a program of mandatory and elective training options as well personal cruise experience, shipboard inspections and 25 cabin sales within the two year enrollment period.So, now the push will be to sign up and get your card now (just like it was in late 2007 for the CRTA card). But how are RTAs going to handle becoming an ACC, MCC, ECC, or ECCS and maintain sales of 25 cabins!
And as a franchise, they are no longer able to trade under their "host" number but will need to invest in their own membership. Methinks CLIA pulled a fast one on the MLM world!
I know, I know, "we were #26 and we don't need CLIA"
Well, in order to book on our websites we don't need CLIA or IATA. The cards, as you know, make it "easier" to get those pesky perks that seem to get you all in a huff.
ReplyDeleteWell, getting the ACC shouldn't be that difficult anyway. In fact, if you go through the CLIA website, it even says, if you have been on a cruise, inspected a ship, or watched a CLIA video you have already earned valuable credits to becoming ACC. It is as if they realize that it isn't a big deal.
With that all said, this is a good move for CLIA and in reality the industry as a whole. Remember if a YTB RTA is able to achieve industry credentials of any kind it validates the WHOLE THING.
By the way, it said 25 cabins in a 2 year period. I doa few groups a year so no prob.
Well, this is good news. Josh is apparently clueless as to what it takes to earn the ACC or MCC, but he will figure that out in due time.
ReplyDeleteOne of the big issues is that MLMers are after the freebies. They promote the freebies and the perks and here is another one that is now a bit further out of reach. Kudos to CLIA.
As a franchise, YTB is no longer your CLAI agency. You will be INDIVIDUALLY required to register as a CLIA agency at $399 a year to even begin to pursue the ACC designation. Of course they exempt owners and managers (that is YTB's loophole) but it will incur a cost of a CLIA membership. So now that $500 investment is now $900. ANd that really does not include what the new franchise fees will be.
And if I had to guess, CLIA probably did this in response to YTB's franchise announcement a few weeks ago. CLIA has realized YTB as a cash cow for a few years now and has felt the heat. I know many did not renew because of their lacxadaisical stance on card issuance. But now with franchising on the horizon, CLIA is not only seeing $3.2 million in annual card revenue from YTB, but potentially $52 million in new memberships!
There is no commonly known acronym for how hard I was laughing about this (you know, LOL or ROFL or ROFLMAO), that I had to make one up. Here it is: ILSHMSHAIFOOMCARAOTFWTSDMFATDTIIUIETSATSLAW
ReplyDeleteNow, that stands for: I', laughing so hard my sides hurt and I fell out of my chair and rolled around on the floor with tears streaming down my face and the dogs think I'm insane until I explained the situation and they started laughing as well.
Kudos to CLIA for tightening up. The vast majority of MLMer's are not going to want to expend the time or expense that the rest of us do to be REAL travel agents.
I am extremely happy with this new developement. It took them entirely too long to do it, but better then never. As for "we don't need CLIA", the RTA's will be extremely frustrated trying to get that free/discounted trip for their whole family without IATA or CLIA. It will weed out those who do not sell squat and think they deserve anything. Congratulations to CLIA for waking up.
ReplyDeleteAgain,
ReplyDeleteI agree completely. One of two things will happen, RTAs will continue to book via their websites as no credentials are necessary. Or 2, RTAs serious about the travel industry will do what it takes to get the CLIA certification.
And in advance reply to the question if serious about travel why stay with YTB..again I point to leverage of building a sales team.
Josh,
ReplyDeleteThe problem is, that most of the people in YTB aren't serious about selling travel, the numbers don't lie. The other problem is that YTB has been touting the free travel or discounted travel for so long. What's the new pitch going to be?
My first experience from a YTBer was just that, "wouldn't you like to travel for free or discounted travel?"
Then I got the "He should have booked with me!" comment for my trip to Disney this year, "I could have saved him a ton of money". Well that was until I mentioned the free dining and how much money was saved. That shut her up.
Josh
ReplyDeleteYes, but that would mean you'd have to have people who actually want to sell travel on your sales team. How many would you say you have that are looking to do that, knowing they will not get any perks unless they produce? Will your $1500/month drop? If your wife wants to stay home with the kids and still work, why not become a legit agent and make so much more then that? I don't understand this. I'm a work at home mother, and I make far more then that..and still save on daycare. Or is she at stay at home mom who doesnt work at all, and you are doing the YTB thing on the side for extra dough? The CLIA ruling is going to hurt recruitment, hard to push perks when you don't have anything to push.
Well, I can tell you with certainty that over the last 18 months, the perks haven't been touted by YTB as a company. IN fact, the only perk even mentioned is the ability to buy from your own website. The people on my team do just that. SO, the "perks" are simply that.
ReplyDeleteI am always open to polite and mature discourse, could you, Lisa, have a chat with ainsworth and the others who come in her oozing like a 9 year old who just lost a spot on the see saw.
SO, the CLIA thing is good for the industry, and frankly good for YTB as, we all know that the big gripe you (TTAs) have is that YTB people can get perks. So, if that is eliminated then you will let us be?!?
Josh---you can't be serious about not promoting perks for 18 months. I attended a dog and pony show in November and the big push was to sign up TONIGHT so I could get the CRTA card without having to sell anything. It was ALL about the perks and it has been ever since I started this blog in October 2007. And it still is about the perks--well at least it was a few days ago.
ReplyDeleteRead any of the YTB blogs, read craigslist. That is all that is promoted along with thye tax advantages.
And Lisa is correct, the majority of people (as is evidenced by the numbers) are not in it to sell travel. So when they are not able to get those perks and benefits, they will move on. And then your income goes away as does your leverage.
You ought to consider making your own leverage rather than relying on someone telling you that you have it.
I know a former agency manager that quit and went on her own. She called up a vendor and because of HER leverage, they offered her 18% commission right out of the gate. Now of course she was known to produce and had to continue to produce, but how is THAT for leverage?
Unfortunately for YTB this is just another nail in their coffin Josh. The "perks" are what the REPs used for so long. Now that is going away what next? Recruitment is going to tank and without recruitment, no income. Thus the demise of YTB has started. You can't honestly think this is good for YTB?
ReplyDeleteSeriously, without any serious industry credentials, there is NOTHING that is advantageous to YTB..leverage and all.
ReplyDeleteThe average family spends $2500 a year on vacations. What are you going to sell, the rebate on the commission of $150?
How does that pitch go? Sign up for $500, pay $50 a month and earn $150 a year back on your personal travels. Get your friends to book with you and you can earn $150 for each year they book a trip with you. SO all you need to do is spend $1100 to us, $2500 to travel, and then get 9 of your friends to travel from your site and you could break even!
ANd when 9 of your friends travel, you are almost halfway to earning an IATAN card. And if you can find 13 friends to cruise every year, in two years you can have a CLIA card (membership mandatory and an additional $400)
I mean seriously dude.....I think the leverage just went bye bye!
How you wish, John.
ReplyDeleteEverytime you and your faithful, hamburger-flipper ytbscam turn around, it is the END of YTB.
Doom and Gloom.
Hasn't happened.
Not going to happen.
We will continue to confound and frustrate the confounded and frustrated.
Josh
ReplyDeleteI do not speak for anyone but myself, and I cannot control anyone else either. I will say that its not only this side acting childish, might want to go back and read some other posts where the name calling was rampant.
As for not seeing the touting of the "perks", might want to recheck the net. Lots of them still exist, and now the tax advantages are added. If you do not have IATAN or CLIA their are not going to be any perks to speak of, so all you really have left is the tax advantages, and some of them are laughable.
Eventually the recruitment will dry up, and the ones that are not producing will move on to the next "big thing". If you are serious about travel, and the money is a necessity/niceity, then maybe consider having MRS work from home as a TA, under a proper host, and make an extra $50K/year instead of only $18K. Just a thought!
Hmmmmm, I also just saw where ytb stock is down just over 7% for the day. Interestingly big drop on the day of this kind of news.
ReplyDeleteJosh, I don't care that ytb gets perks. What I care about is that ytber's get perks that they don't qualify for.......they're uneducated and don't care to be, for the most part. Those that truly are in it to sell travel, and do sell travel, then they deserve the perks just like the rest of us. I also think that they're doing a disservice to themselves by remaining in ytb, when it has been shown time and again how they're actually losing money, but all you see is the "potential" to make bonuses, and not the actuality of the here and now.
Both sides (pro-mlm and anti-mlm) are so vested in the other being wrong that Josh is right, it's like a bunch of kids. This is exactly why the divorce rate is so high, we have terrorism, etc. Everyone is always trying to beat the other person. John and his crew want so bad to see the people of YTB and YTB fail that they forget just that, they are people. They hold their traditional view of travel so sacred that they cannot see past their own selfish wants: the failure of someone else. To me, that tells me a lot about peoples character. It doesn't mean they are bad people but it tells me what kind of belief system they operate from. Also tells me a lot about the internal conversations that are going on inside their head and that's too bad.
ReplyDeleteSo let me ask the anti-ytb'rs what is is you want besides seeing the failure of fellow human beings that don't operate from the same belief system as you? Seems you have yourself so convinced that YTB and the people that associate with it are the spawn of satan in your traditional world of travel. When in fact they are moms, dads, grandma'a and grandpas, college students,.....and do care about doing what happens with YTB and all travel agencies for that fact. They have a vested intrest in the success of YTB. But becasue YTB doesn't fit into your traditional little world of what travel is and could be you label it as a "cult" "illegal" and label the people as drones.
Point being, no matter what you say about YTB or the people I don't feel it is me against you anymore. I know you have the same needs as the rest of us and there is no reason why you don't deserve it and I personally hope that God blesses you. You are not my enemy anymore and I still am committed to the success of YTB.
I don't know where you came up with all that but...
ReplyDeleteI think I can safely speak for most of us on this topic. What we don't want is to see anyone fail. What we do want is for anyone who refers to themselves as a travel agent to have some actual travel related training, and know some basic geography. The reason that TTAs have such a huge issue with the mlm model is not for any reason other than damage that has been done to our industry by these untrained, uneducated people. The reason that myself and others spend as much time as we do on this issue is not because we are out to get anyone or are failing as a result of the mlms. We have been sucsessful in this industry and feel an obligation to protect the integrity of this industry. We've said it time and time again- get some training and make a positive contribution to this industry and we won't have an issue with you.
Firman...no one said they want to see people fail. I am sorry you read that into the dialogue. From my perspective, I would like to see those in YTB to act ethically and in the best interest of their clients and the travel industry in general. To date that has not been the case.
ReplyDeleteThere is minimal if any training taken by most. The program is sold on perks and tax deductions rather than helping people achieve their own dream and goals as they relate to travel.
I feel that MLM is taking unfair advantage of a loophole controlled by the suppliers by flooding FAM trips and seminars at sea with their families (which they were not designed for) with no intent of selling the product--only to get a cheap vacation.
And finally, the arrogance and the misrepresentation have really given a black eye to the industry. Yo have RTAs claiming to be travel agents (despite what YTB says) and they are misleading the public. Some are taking their money and robbing them--and yes I know there are TTAs that do it as well.
I appreciate your passion for the travel industry. What I feel you have wrong is the motives behind the founders. Those of us that have spent time with Coach, Scott, Kim, and the rest of YTB have a much different view of them. We don't see them as arrogant, unethical, or any other negative character associated. I truly feel that their intentions are true, especially being around them. I went in very guarded about them and went away with no feelings of intentions of unethical behavior and arrogance. I felt it was just the opposite. When people say things about them it's like someone saying something false about someone you know or care about. I feel if any of you sat down for five minutes with any of them you would find they are not the enemy of the travel business you feel they are.
ReplyDeleteI hear you say that "yes I know there are TTA's that do it as well" but I don't hear you attacking them about it. Your whole focus has been on YTB. I feel that the founders of YTB have every intention of following the rules as they pertain to the industry. I feel they will make the necessary adjustments as they come.
Do you think there is absolutely no room for MLM (which is only a definition of the compensation plan) in the travel industry and if there is why don't you focus on that instead of it's demise. It could be just the boost the travel industry needs that you cannot yet see. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there. Do you think there is a win/win situation here that is not the demise of YTB? I feel that YTB takes serious the desires of the industry imposes and I feel they have every intention of adjusting to meet those regulations.
John,
ReplyDeleteHow the heck are you? I see you are still on this crazy blog. I have been out of the loop for a while since the passing of my sister. I do have great news though, I am out of YTB. YIPPIE!!! I no longer drink the koolaid, however I was one of the top 5% who did make money. I just really got tired of everyone in that company with egos, and talking about people and the clicks, and all that crap!!! I'm to old a dog to be called a puppy. I don't need it, and my other businesses are going well. I can say good luck to anyone in that company. I keep up on articles in Travel Weekly and CLIA will now be changing perks for everyone in YTB because those people just want to bring people in and not take classes and stuff. I was one of the ones who took advantage of learning all I could and I am now with a real company making my own money and not splittng shit with anyone at YTB!!
I also know that any RTA that misrepresents themselves and YTB finds out about it, they warn them and them terminate if it continues. If anyone out there knows about people misrepresenting then YTB wants to know about it.
ReplyDeleteM L looks like you are here for validation of your decision which this blog should be great for how you feel. Glad to hear you are doing well in the travel industry.
ReplyDeleteFireman--
ReplyDeleteCan you please detail exactly how much time you have spent personally with the three musketeers to come to that conclusion. Please do not include scripted phone calls, video conferences, or attendance at the conventions which are all scripted.
I abhor the TTAs that scam, but my issue on this blog is not with them. It is with the MLM crowd and to be honest, it just one of a myriad of reasons that MLM and travel is a bad mix. Are you suggesting that their actions are OK? That they should not be brought to light? After all, every TTTA that has screwed a client has been referenced here. And as I have told others, you are welcome to start your own blog because I think the focus of this one has been pretty well defined from day one.
A while ago, I might have thought there was some room for both models. There are a few posts to that effect (look in December and January) but then it just got worse. THe false claims, the issues wiht Lindauer, Seligman, and more all surfaced and I realized that MLM (and in particular YTB) was focused on recruiting at all costs regardless of what the industry says about them.
YTB has NEVER taken the desires of anyone other than themselves into consideration. I have said time and time again they are reactionary. When they get caught, they make a change to bring them into compliance, but not until they are caught. RCCL, IATA, Canada, Outrageous claims, deceptive accounting practices, CA SOT compliance, training, and deceptive marketing materials to name a few. Yes, they are guilty of all of the above and corrections were only made when they got caught.
Eventually someone will catch them and not be willing to let them correct. Someone like the IRS, SEC, FBI or the FTC. Honestly, it is a waiting game and in the interim, they are damaging an industry.
Well Insider who knows (posted a comment in the wrong post) hit the nail on the head. ANd it took Doug all afternoon to make phone calls and be told what to post.
ReplyDeleteI read Doug's blog and he does make some valid points and yes the training will eliminate one of the largest beefs the TTAs have.
He also used a 20% figure of those who would partake. If true, that will make YTB a completely different company and one that will not be able to support itself (with low margins) as an MLM.
The 20% is probably a good figure. But the remaining 80% are not interested in travel...just the perks and once they are not available, they will likely leave. Without RTAs paying their dues, what do the Reps do? Leave.
If YTB can bring 27K professional trained agents into the industry, they would certainly be accepted and embraced. It is sort of a backwards way to go about it, but if the end result is that, so be it. I guess we wait and see.
See how the franchise fallout goes and then when CLIA implements their policies. It might be a year or so but the TTAs have fared far worse storms.
Seems that YTB has faired far worse storms also.
ReplyDelete"Seems that YTB has faired far worse storms also."
ReplyDeleteBut, the problem is firemedic the business model is flawed. And most MLMs go away and have to reinvent themselves which leaves a lot of people like you holding the bag.
You need to read:
http://www.pyramidschemealert.org/PSAMain/home.html
http://www.vandruff.com/mlm.html
Kitty, I won't belabour the point about MLM or not, but you should read this article. Take your time there are 7 parts.
ReplyDeletehttp://marketwaveinc.com/articles/zealots01.asp
It should clear everything up for you.
By the way, I loved the saturation part. I should tell my cousin who just became an avon rep about 6 months ago over one hundred years after the company began.
I read this on CLIA's site several months ago that they were going to this. No suprise and not concerned about it. I sell enough cruises and I pay for my CLIA card. No big deal.
ReplyDeletefiremedic227 - its not just selling cruises and paying a fee - its multiple education courses, its ship inspections, its 2 required personal cruises of different lengths on different cruise lines.
ReplyDeleteIts a commitment to being a travel professional.