It seems that j. Kim Sorensen, on of the most influential people in travel, is caught a little short on facts and original comment in the recent Travel Weekly Column, In The Hot Seat.What did Travel Weekly's Nadine Godwin get out of Kim that was not already sent out by Scott Tomer as "talking points"? Not too much.
This "interview" was so full of deflection and avoidance it was not even funny. He could not even tell how many RTAs were in the program! This is something I might expect a CEO to know. If you want the Cliff's Notes version, here it is:
Well, he answered 1 out of 7 questions or about 14%. Which incidentally is higher than the success rate of the people in the RTA or Rep programs, but still a failure by a long shot.
- How many RTAs do you have? (I don't know but more than the beginning of the year)
- Do you envision converting all RTAs to the franchise model? (I don't know and I don't want to talk about that)
- What portion do you think might switch? (I don't know but if they don't we won't get rid of them)
- Isn't this risky? (I don't know, but we know how to recruit people)
- Can you explain the reason for the switch? (I don't know but we will have a manual ** available that will tell us what we need to know)
- Will this improve your supplier relationships and enable you to reclaim IATA and RCCL? (I don't know but the general public has a better perception of a franchise than they do of network marketing)
- When will you make a final commitment to the switch? (By the end of the year)
He obviously knew what the interview was about and I can understand not being able to discuss the details, so why agree to the interview in the first place? Did he think Nadine was going to talk about the Statue of Liberty?
In any case, the CEO of YTB came off looking like a dolt. He lost all control of the interview and really sheds a poor light on his company. Essentially, he has said he knows nothing...which is par for the course since he has no background in the travel industry.
** It seems like YTB is hanging an awful lot on this "manual" that will be forthcoming. Does anyone want to take a guess as to what company might be producing the manual and might be getting some overinflated sales on the manual? Perhaps a privately held company that is owned by the Principles of YTB that is reaping $8 million dollars for a stage prop? Just a guess on my part!
It is strange how none of the blogs you reference in this blog are reporting this. Apparently they are waiting on moe talking points from YTB and listeniong to Coach et al saying that it does not affect them and it does not matter beecasue they are #26.
ReplyDeleteEven Doug is showing his true colors (not being able to think for himself--or at least oin his feet--and I am sure he will come out wiht a "the TTAs think that this hurts us, but it is really a great thing" post. Wanna bet?
What kind of idiot doesn't know the number of people who work for him? What a amatuerist response, actually all of the responses. This just shows you what kind of people are running the YTB sideshow.
ReplyDeleteAs I said, if you are unable to comment on anything (and I understand that completely) explain it and just don;t do the interview.
ReplyDeleteHe came off looking like a dolt.
Amazing that once again you have to resort to personal attacks. "Dolt" "idiot". What you don't see is Scott or Kim doing the same. Just because you don't agree with someone doesn't mean they are less than a person than you. I have also learned it is only possible to loathe that thing in someone else we find in ourselves.
ReplyDeleteIt's still looks to me like you will not be happy with anything YTB does. You seem to only be out to see the complete and total failure. It wouldn't matter if they had all the same training as TTA's.
Do you feel the interview was a hard hitting interview that imparted any additional information on you?
ReplyDeleteFireman...how many kids do you have? IF you do have kids and if your answer is "more than I had when I was born" then you come off looking like a dolt.
The guy did not even answer a question straight that was NOT related to franchising.
Who said he was less of a person than me? I missed that memo.
ANd make no mistake, this is a huge positive move for the industry. However, I have never felt YTB was legitimately "in" the industry so this may be a bad thing for them, just like (it seems) every other thing they try to do in travel.
Maybe it will refine the company in to a legitimate travel company. Maybe it will be the end of them. Maybe they will morph over to another industry and abandon travel (my pick incidentally).
To any and all readers of this anti-YTB blog:
ReplyDeleteREAD THE REAL INTERVIEW FROM TRAVEL WEEKLY.
I repeat:
READ THE REAL INTERVIEW FROM TRAVEL WEEKLY.
John Frenaye's outdid himself with his anti-YTB spin on this one.
He says Kim Sorensen looks like a "dolt".
ONLY if you read John Frenaye's ridiculous Cliff Notes spin.
That's what he hopes you will read.
Most intelligent people realize that Kim Sorensen CANNOT comment more on the upcoming franchise model at this time.
He handled himself very professsionally.
Totally unlike the anti-YTB blogger John Frenaye with another one of his world-class spin jobs.
Mix---the real interview is there and I do encourage those that want to read it and form their own opinion.
ReplyDeleteIf the topic is about franchising and cannot say anything , why do the interview in the first place.
If you want to see how it should have been handled, read the Gerry Cahill Hot Seat a few weeks ago.
And my cliff notes are pretty accurate.
John's take on this interview is dead on. He wouldn't or couldn't even say how many RTA's they have. If you can't read that interview and see that he dodged every question than that is just sad.
ReplyDeleteCome on people. Why should YTB HQ know how many RTAs they have? They don't know how many REPS they have either. As long as 'it's a lot', they are happy taking the money to the bank.
ReplyDeleteI read the article and my take is much like Johns. Hardly the 'hot seat'.
More than anything else, the interview was a waste of space. He did come off as uninformed, avoiding the questions, and he did look like a dolt, both in his words and the picture they posted. I think their days are numbered. Mixed won't agree but he doesn't know jack either. $67,000 last year! OK.
ReplyDeleteFact, J. Kim Sorensen gave an interview. Fact, He did not give as much information as John and the anti-blog. Now the MEANING behind these FACTS....whatever you want them to be but all of them have nothing to do with the truth. You get to make up the meanings. If you are anti-YTB then it isn't no surprise that your meaning will be that he is a "dolt" or "idiot".
ReplyDeleteFact, You don't see the founders of YTB calling anti-YTB folks names and personally attacking them. The MEANING I associate with that is it reflects on the character of the men.
Or maybe that they have no defense.
ReplyDeleteFACT...Sorenson was asked to answer questions. FACT....he answered one out of seven
If you people spent as much time working your own business as much as you did cutting down YTB I would bet you would be wealthy and wouldn't have time to be focused on every morsel of negative news you can find.
ReplyDeleteInsider,
ReplyDeleteHe answered ALL of the questions. He may not have answered them to your liking but he answered them. I didn't see one question that there wasn't an answer after it. That's %100.
Fireman...everyone knows you cannot be wealthy working a job! To be wwealthy you need a downline and need to give YTB $500 and $50 a month.
ReplyDeleteDid you miss that part. Anyone that works for a living is foolish and will never be a success!
Whoops...100%.
ReplyDeleteAll you really have is sarcasm and personal attacks Insider. Dated a sarcastic person once. Seemed like really low self-esteem. Cut down the other person to facilitate feeling better about yourself.
ReplyDeleteTypical responses from the TTAs.
ReplyDeleteThere are some reasonable readers on this blog who to not have the TTA bias against YTB.
I encourage them to read the interview.
Let's face it, there will never be anything that YTB does that will satisfy the anti-YTB blogger John Frenaye.
And that includes his faithful little TTAs like Martha, TL and Eddie.
It is similar to saying anything good about the Yankees to a Red Sox fan.
Bias against YTB is in their blood.
They just cannot help themselves.
And, yes, Martha baby, $67,000.
More in 2008!
firemedic - Yes he answered all of the questions and gave answers just like Mixed does. The interview using you as an example went like this:
ReplyDeleteTW - How did you get your screen name?
FM - I don't know.
TW - What do you do for a living?
FM - I don't know.
TW - Have you ever done a booking?
FM - I don't know.
TW - Do you have a brain?
FM - I don't know.
My case in point. Sarcasm and personal attacks. Hopefully you feel better about yourself now Martha.
ReplyDelete"There are some reasonable readers on this blog who to not have the TTA bias against YTB."
ReplyDeleteTo bad there are no reasonable YTB'ers on this blog.
It wasn't a personal attack upon you. It was just like the Hot Seat interview. I just substituted you in place of Sorensen as an example of the answers.
ReplyDeleteMixed - All I can say to you is just prove one of your claims. Just one. I could say I'm a famous celebrity and have a mansion on Mulholland Drive. So your point is? If you made 67K from YTB then you must be a director. You are not.
ReplyDeleteWhat would you consider a "resonable YTB'r" Autumn? Someone who only thinks like you?
ReplyDelete"If you made 67K from YTB then you must be a director. You are not."
ReplyDeleteJust like you are wrong on most counts regarding YTB, Martha . . .
You just might be wrong on that statement, also.
Have you ever noticed that Mix always puts a lot of space between his sentenses?
ReplyDeleteDoes he think it makes them sound more important?
Or more credible?
Or just gives him more room to brag about how much he makes?
Martha, I have given Mix a time and place to prove to "one of us" that he is legit, and really made that much money last year selling nothing but TRAVEL with ytb, but how much you wanna bet that he either 1)can't or 2)will have some reason not to because he (wait for it).......can't.
ReplyDeleteI'll even post it again right here.....Noon on Monday of the ASTA Tradeshow in MCO, right in front of the Convention Center.
Big man, ainsworth.
ReplyDeleteShowdown in Orlando.
Probably a little man with a Napoleon complex.
No, little buddy . . . it is not all from travel commissions.
I never said that it was.
That is not the YTB model.
With YTB, you can make money from both companies.
On the travel side and the marketing side.
It's a beautiful thing.
And to Kate -
I leave the spaces so you can comprehend the deep mysteries of YTB.
Some people just need help.
Hey it's Josh and his other persona firemedic or do you have multiple personalities Joshies pooh? Funny, when you YTB folks can't take the heat you disappear and reinvent yourself kinda like Madonna. Hey, how did wifey's spa day go? Are you home again today while she takes another spa day? Did you call your tax man so you can write it all off?
ReplyDeleteAs to the interview, I will go one better than John Kim came across as an ASS. How's that. Freedom of speech is guaranteed in the Constitution so sue me.
"Kim came across as an ASS"
ReplyDeleteSpoken from a true authority on ASSES, Miss Kitty herself.
Exactly the point Mix, people in ytb can't make that kind of money selling nothing but TRAVEL, so they have to rely on recruiting others into the scheme! And that's our whole point! And just how do you get people to sign on the dotted line? You promise untrained, uneducated people all the perks that they don't deserve because they haven't earned them (wow, what a concept, earning something), dreams of riches, shaky tax credits, etc.
ReplyDeleteSure, you "offer" the "education" but ytb doesn't make any of it mandatory, except for a piddly few courses that, when it all it all shakes out, really teaches nothing, taught by REPS (people that are in the MARKETING arm, not the TRAVEL arm) for a worthless card to call yourself "certified".
So, Mix, you have proven our point once again. That 67k you say you made is not real. Oh, you may have gotten checks worth 67k from ytb, but you didn't make the majority of it in the TRAVEL industry. You made it in the MARKETING industry. See the difference? How much did you REALLY make selling travel?
Oh, and to Josh and Firemedic, I want you two to take note that MIX seems to be the one throwing around the insults. He was the one to question my stature, and to imply that I have a Napoleon complex. If that's not resorting to "name calling", I don't know what is.
And just to clarify, I am an average American male, standing 5'10" tall, weighing in at 190 lbs.
See, I told ya'll that he would come up with some type of excuse.......
"Let's face it, there will never be anything that YTB does that will satisfy the anti-YTB blogger John Frenaye.
ReplyDeleteAnd that includes his faithful little TTAs like Martha, TL and Eddie."
Funny, as I'd not even responded at all today that your thinking of me :). I am faithful to no-one but my husband thanks very much. I have my own mind, and I fight for what I believe, not what others tell me to believe. Theres the difference between you and me. I do not have some holy man preaching to me that "ytb will be the king of the world" and having all his minions believe in it.
If you cannot open your eyes and see whats transpiring in the industry, your not in the industry. Your simply in it for your downline/upline/sideline whatever line it is. You don't care about travel. WE DO! I do not care about the mindless drones who are using the internet to book travel, I do care about those that represent themselves as agents, who are not qualified, trying to book travel. I do not care for those that tout the perks as the only means for joining (which is very soon to stop). I've never said I would not be pleased with anything YTB does to better themselves in this industry. I've stated time and time again, that if they truly wanted to be welcomed in this industry they need to legitimize themselves, eliminate the masses of people who are not in this for travel and are completely uneducated and become a real agency. Then, they may truly be a powerhouse they want to be.
Sorry, Mix/Josh/FM etc. The "interview" was, as has been said, a waste of space. Kim did not provide any info, even on questions where he should have known the answer and didn't have anything to do with the franchise issue. He should have declined the interview if that was what he was going to offer. By doing it and essentially offering no info, he has only given ammunition to the opposition. He did himself and YTB no favors.
ReplyDeleteHey Mix takes one to know one. You know honey after reading your posts I think you are a head case. So much hostility coming out of you it ain't funny. It's obvious that you hate women too. Telling Ainsworth he has a Napoleon complex is funny too because you obviously have a borderline personality Oedipus complex.
ReplyDeleteMiss Kitty,
ReplyDeleteThanks for bringing me into this when I haven't even commented. Your maturity is amazing to me.
With that said, I do think Sorensen could have answered the number of RTAs question better. The rest were fine given the content about commenting on something that has merely been contemplated. Plus, Scott's letter spelled everything out. Why would Kim say anything different?
Her spa day was nice. Thanks for asking.
I haven't commented until now as I was home with the family earlier today. Now I just got to work and had a few minutes to get online. But, thanks for being concerned about my absense. I can assure you that I am not Fireman. You can ask John about where comments come from and he will be able to tell you the geographic locations of the 2 commenters.
TravelLisa,
ReplyDeleteIt's looking like you may be getting what you are asking for in as far as what you think YTB should be doing. Who knows what the details will be? I do see a lot of irresponsible speculation though like John saying what the price will be and how it will all work.
All in all though, I do respect the anti-blogs passion. I just wish they weren't using such immature attacks to do so. I don't think it makes them look any better than anything they feel YTB does to put the "black eye" on the industry.
Oh, by the way, I am in Kansas. Not sure where the other dude is from.
ReplyDeleteWell Joshie pooh thanks for clearing that up. I thought you cloned yourself. Glad your wife had a good day at the spa. You must have a great job that they let you post on-line so much. Now, you be careful honey because my cousin Mary Jane's boy was working for some company and posting on-line and his boss fired him. Guess the IT Guys were monitoring everyone's internet usage. Anyway, as to your comment about my maturity why thank you for that honey. And, you know my comment still stands. A spade is a spade and Kim came across as an ASS. I mean really honey what Executive Officer in this country doesn't know how many people he has working for him? I mean they all know. What's Kim's problem? He sounded more evasive than Richard Nixon during Watergate. Didn't help his credibility at all. No sir it didn't. As my Momma used to say "better a smart ass then a dumb ass" .
ReplyDeleteMiss Kitty,
ReplyDeleteAll of the meanings you put to Kim's interview are made up. Like I said before, Fact: Kim gave an interview. Fact: He answered all the questions. Now since he did not answer them the way you expected, you label him an "ass". Come-on. You can put whatever meaning you want to they way the interview went and it has nothing to do with the truth. One person says it showed he was not ready to comment on detatils and another says he's an "ass" or "dolt" or "idiot". (I had to look up the meaning of "dolt". Not spoken in Kansas much).
Why the personal attacks? Why can't just the facts be debated without the personal attacks?
firemedic-Are you reading the same interview I did? Apparently you must be reading the one with your rose colored glasses on. Kimmy baby was so darn evasive, elusive and what not. You really need to quit drinking the Kool Aid honey cause you are starting to sound like you are one brick short of a full load.
ReplyDeleteAs to personal attacks please you YTBrs have done plenty. Calling all of us TTA's dinosaurs and old hens and other unmentionable names. You don't like it quit hanging around here all day. You do have a job right?
ALL of these comments are a waste of space.
ReplyDeleteHey people, why don't you ask John why he joined YTB yesterday???? Yep, that's right! The person that hates YTB with a passion JOINED YTB.
Now, I'm not totally stupid! I know there is a reason behind the madness. Don't we all want to know??? =)
"What would you consider a "resonable YTB'r" Autumn? Someone who only thinks like you?"
ReplyDeleteNo I consider a reasonable person someone who can read that interview and realise that none of the questions were answered. Saying that the questions were answered is like asking someone how many kids they have and they answer "green" and then saying that they did answer the question.
Well it seems John is a REP, not an RTA.
ReplyDeleteHere is his site. www.ytb.com/jfrenaye
Does that mean he got into YTB just to recruit? After all as a REP he can't sell travel.
Ainsworth said: "Oh, and to Josh and Firemedic, I want you two to take note that MIX seems to be the one throwing around the insults . . . If that's not resorting to "name calling", I don't know what is."
ReplyDeleteThis was the wonderful Ainsworth yesterday in his first response to a post by me:
"To me, you're nothing but a dog dingleberry that I have to clean up after"
That's my good buddy, Ainsworth.
And I will respond in kind to any jerk like Ainworth who spouts off.
Yes, he is an arrogant elitist TTA.
Not all are.
He just has a bad case of it.
And the big news he uncovered:
I make money on the marketing side of YTB in addition to the travel side.
What a revelation!
And I am proud to say that I make that money.
I have great RTAs on my Team.
They happily pay their $49.95 each month because they like their YTB businesses.
In spite of the clueless Ainsworths of the world . . . who thinks that HE is the only one that belongs in the travel industry.
Here's a clue, good buddy . . .
We are not going away.
Mix,
ReplyDeleteDon't forget the ever pleasant Miss Kitty, who, unprovoked, offered her opinion of my family life and my relationship with my wife. And even after that, I didn't stoop to that level, as I was enjoying some more intelligent time with my own children.
Denyse-Give it up already and go back to hawking cell phones and quit talking out both sides of your mouth....
ReplyDeleteHey Josh, Thanks for all your nice comments. I have a question for you about your income from YTB. There seems to be a discrepancy in what you said. In one post you said you made $1500 a month and then in another awhile back you said you only made $2,000? Which is it?
ReplyDeleteI'm waiting for an answer just like many other people are. Why did John JOIN YTB???
ReplyDeleteThat only came out of ONE side of my mouth!!
We're waiting too, Humble. I'm sure it's something nefarious, though...
ReplyDeleteI'm sure it is also. Nothing GOOD.
ReplyDeleteMiss kitty,
ReplyDeleteLet me type slowly so you can understand....
I average around 1500 per month. Although it will likely be around 2k or higher from here through the end of 2008 as the power team overrides from travel booked over the last several months will come in.
That 2000 figure was when I was talking about what I made from the overrides on my already paid power teams travel comissions.
Although my July comission check from travel sales included an additional 584 in 10% overrides.
But, thanks for channelling some positive energy on my comments.
Yes, Mix, yesterday I did call you a name when requesting that you not call me your "buddy". That word is reserved for people that are actually friends of mine. Everyone else are dog dingleberries. Today, for no reason whatsoever, other than you were backed into a corner that you can't get out of, you resorted to the name calling.
ReplyDeleteSo, now, onto the other. Yes, you made money on the marketing side of ytb. I would bet my last dime that the vast majority of that 67k came from the MARKETING side and not the TRAVEL side of ytb. Therefore, you are a MARKETER and not a TRAVEL AGENT. Since you are a MARKETER, why should you be afforded the perks, few that they are, that suppliers offer to TRAVEL AGENTS?
Just how much of that 67k did come from TRAVEL sales? Do you even know? I know exactly how much of my money came from TRAVEL sales. All of it, since I am a TRAVEL AGENT.
I am not opposed to others being TRAVEL AGENTS. I welcome new blood into the industry. What I am opposed to are people who are NOT TA's, but MARKETERS who call themselves travel agents. I am opposed to uneducated, untrained people calling themselves travel agents.
It's really sad that you and your cohorts cannot or will not understand the difference between being a MARKETER and a TRAVEL AGENT. Being a TA involves way more than owning a website and telling people that want to book a trip the web address of said site so that they can do it all themselves.
I have come to the end of my intercourse with Mix, as he seems to be too far gone. It seems as if the ytber's that post here are like addicts. You know that what they're doing is hurting them, you want to help them, but you can't do anything until they themselves realize that they need help. Mix and the rest of them will hit bottom someday, and I think that someday is coming sooner than they think. For now, I will just sit back, continue to read their ridiculous postings, and enjoy a morning (and sometimes afternoon) laugh with my coffee.
Well maybe we will all sign up as reps and just watch the dough roll in like Joshie and Firemedic and Mix does
ReplyDeleteBAAAAWHHWHWHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHHAHHAH!
Mix...let me put what I think Ainsworth is saying. And incidentally I agree.
ReplyDeleteIn a car dealership, the sales people get demo cars. It is a perk of the job. The mechanics, they don't.
For those in YTB that are serious about selling travel and actually do sell a good amount of it...let them have access to the perks. Those that recruit only--not so much.
But the issue is YTB sells the perks on everyone. If someone wants to sign up just as a rep (although they can) they are derided to sign up as an RTA (recruitiment) because just think of all the tax deductions
Miss Kitty, how old ARE you????
ReplyDeleteDenyse-I am as old as you are religious. Think about that honey. And, thanks for asking.
ReplyDeleteI doubt that John joined YTB for any purpose other than you have access to back-office information or any other positive reason. I could be wrong.
ReplyDeleteWill you be commenting on it John?
Now Humble, don't you want an enormous downline? All those TTAs who will sign up under John? All those TTAs who want the tax deduction from being a REP?
ReplyDeleteHey Denyse, if I sign up under you can we go shoe shopping together. I need a new pair of Manolos and you just look like a shoe girl...
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, John, I read Ainsworth like a book.
ReplyDeleteNo need for the help.
I know exactly where he is headed.
YTB has been making changes over the past year.
Yesterday's CLIA announcement was positive.
But not in your book.
Just more crass comments and another hit piece on YTB from you to further your anti-YTB blog.
You want it both ways.
So now you are a REP so you can get more information about YTB?
I've seen it all now.
Miss Kitty: Then you're pretty old because I've been religious for over 50 years. Sorry grandma.
ReplyDeleteFireMedic: I'm still waiting on that comment also. John, are you saying that REPs are laughed at (derided) until they sign up as an RTA?? If so, that is not true at all.
I do agree with one thing John said (oh lawd). If you are actually selling travel, you should be entitled to whatever perks are allowable. If you don't sell travel, then you shouldn't. I'm so glad I worked the travel side of this business for over 3 years and have educated myself intensively. So blanket comments shouldn't be made.
John: is that all you're going to say about JOINING YTB??
Ann: Ummm.....I ain't sure about that. We all know NO TTA will sign under John and John himself is trying to pull a fast one.
No one should ever start a business because of the tax benefits. That's just straight up law. Tax benefits should come from operating a business for the purpose of generating a profit.
ReplyDeleteAs an RTA I sell travel and I market. I just sold several cruises this month. So just because I also market, does that mean that I should be disqualified from the perks? I mean, the perks are never promised to anyone. I know when I took my trainings they stressed that perks were only a courtesy. Isn't that what TTA's are told also?
I know I haven't heard of one case in my team of anyone being "derided" because they only signed up as a Rep. If that is the case then that is wrong. I am sure there are some people out there that are don't doing what they are strictly told not to and that sucks but as far as I have seen in life, it happens. But just because a few are wrong doesn't mean they all are.
I have no desire just to sponsor. I wish to sell as much travel as I can. But typically in network marketing the idea is not to be one person selling all of the product, rather than have a lot of people selling a little. That's called leverage. Just like an employer leverages his help. It's just business. This business model, in my opinion, creates a very loyal customer base.
How do the TTA's feel about Expedia,Travelocity, Orbitz.....? Are they not also referring agencies?
Ya and Ms Kitty and I are both in his downline!!!
ReplyDeleteI think you should commend us for joining YTB. Now you can't say that we're making anything up. We're going to get it straight from the almighty YTB back office! I just hope the future conference calls go better than the one last week. We kept getting cut off, and then the whole call went dead. Darn the luck anyway. I wanted to hear more about the choir that Coach hired to sing to the pollutant,er statue I mean.
Aren't you flattered that we've joined? I mean, aren't you thrilled to have 3 real travel agents on your team, watching everything that you do??
Lisa, are you in??
Actually, I am NOT flattered unless you came to work and not criticize. We all know none of you are interested in marketing. And as a REP, you CAN'T sell travel. So, come at me with something different than that!
ReplyDeleteJohn, I want to be a REP too! Will you sponsor me? No one else will. I don't want to be an RTA.
ReplyDeleteDerided is not the correct word and I apologize. They are encouraged and pressured to do both. Of course no one makes money if everyone is a rep so of course they need RTAs.
ReplyDeleteBut at the meetings I was at, it was very clear that the $500 likely would be earned back almost immediately when you recruit more people in $50 bonuses, and that even if not, as an RTA you could write off all the crap and save money on your taxes to more than pay for it.
I was told that as a Rep, I could NOT write off my cable, my FAM trips and so forth ebcause I was not "selling travel". So the putch was to be both and $500 is really not that nuch.
Derided? No, wrong word. But certainly pressured and encouraged!
Ooh, ooh, can I join too? I never want it to be said that I have the "wrong" information! If I join up, then I will get everything from the horses mouth, and then can help disprove it!
ReplyDeleteIn My Humble Opinion....... said...
ReplyDeleteActually, I am NOT flattered unless you came to work and not criticize. We all know none of you are interested in marketing. And as a REP, you CAN'T sell travel. So, come at me with something different than that!
Exactly, so let us join and be proof that it's next to impossible to sell enough TRAVEL with ytb to earn anything worthwhile!
If all that is true (and I have doubts, seems like a YTBer playing games to me) just go sign on his website. After all that is all there is to YTB, point people to the website and buy travel and buy businesses.
ReplyDeleteJohn, you pretty much hit the nail on the head of what I have been trying to say. Though I will take it further and say that ANYONE that isn't selling travel, be they an mlmer or a TTA, shouldn't get perks.
ReplyDeleteIsn't it amazing how some think they can "read like a book" others, when they know nothing of said other? I love it when people try to figure me out.
I do not believe that YTB can tell an INDEPENDENT contractor that they can or cannot do anything. I believe they can indeed sell travel. Maybe not through YTB as it is a bum deal, but YTB cannot prevent you from selling travel.
ReplyDeleteThis conversation has gotten so convoluted. Who is preventing anyone from doing anything??
ReplyDeleteAnd there's no way you can prover its next to impossible to sell travel IF YOU ARE A REP!!
Firemedic-It is all over the internet ie craigslist, WAHM (work at home moms) work at home message boards, meetup, blogs etc. actively promoted by your fellow YTB people travel for free, free discounts, travel like an insider, travel and get huge tax advantages, I got a free vacation so can you too and blah, blah, blah. It's on there. You have to look for it. That is what we have against YTB. Most, not all, have no interest in selling travel period. Not only that I have witnessed first hand aggressive recruiting at trade shows, bridal shows (without buying booth space) and on cruises and fams by your fellow YTBrs.
ReplyDeleteAs to you actually selling travel you could go to a legitimate host and get 80% instead of the 60% you now make, have a valid IATAN card and be more respected. I don't get why you serious travel sellers actually stay with YTB when you can make more money elsewhere.
Actually I don't see how the same benefits(tax benefits from owning a home-based busniness) cannot be earned sole as a Rep. If you are in business to produce a profit and the tax write-offs are pertinent then why would you have to be an RTA. If I sold travel agencies then wouldn't it be wise for me to know travel (travel channel, travel weekly,etc.)? I am not a CPA but just seems like you still could.
ReplyDeleteAs far as YTB telling an INDEPENDENT contractor what they can and cannot do that it not entirely true. Just like when you own a McDonald's franchise, you have to operate by their rules if you want to carry their name. Same goes for YTB. As far as selling travel with YTB I don't see any other way unless you have actually purchased the travel store.
I also know that the home office does ask that we not sell the "perks" (fam trips and such). At least that is what my director has said.
ReplyDeleteLeverage leverage will be the answer. AT is correct, google YTB on Craigslist and see what comes up.
ReplyDeleteIf it was not a problem, why does there need to be constant reminders from the home office to not recruit on FAMS, trade shows and so forth. It was all fine and good until the trade show promoters outted you.
And even last week there was a reminder that if you call a vendor you are not supposed to try and recruit the vendor's rep.
How long of a "good relationship" do you expect when your "employees" are trying to steal someone elses employees?
AT,
ReplyDeleteI agree. I don't believe those marketing practices are right and it gives us all a bad name. What I do know is that YTB does not condone it and if they find out about it they will terminate if it doesn't stop. My question is if I am selling travel, sponsoring people and teaching them them same, then does that make me legit? Especially if I am abiding by CLIA's rules and all the other industry certifications? Or does building a team disqualify me from being legit? Do you have to be the sole seller of travel, meaning , I do it all myself, before I am accepted by the traditional travel business?
But most ARE selling the perks. You have a bunch of rogue agents running around doing what they want. Let's face it YTB does not do a basic credit or background check on anyone signing up. Most hosts do. And, there was a guy in my home town a CONVICTED FELON running around selling YTB. Not sure where he is now probably jail but at one time YTB used that slogan, "From Jail to Yale." No wonder you have a bunch of loose cannons running around. And, I have been at trade shows and seminars and talked to YTB and they did not show the slightest interest in learning or the travel business. One woman told me she hated the ship inspections at 360 and was going back to the bus and take a nap. WTH? Why are you even there? She was into other money making ventures also not just YTB and other MLMS which I am told YTB does not allow.
ReplyDeleteAnd then there is the whole flowers, cars and other stuff. I mean come on why stay in a company like that. At least the host agencies have people that are dedicated to the travel industry. I am not so sure the threee at the top of YTB have any interest. At one point Tomer was into Primamerica. They jump from one to the other to make more money off of poor unsuspecting people.
IF you want to sell travel get in a legit host. Go to Travel Trade or PATH and find one. It's not that hard.
If you want to get started, it`s easy to get started once you`ve made up your mind to become a part of this wonderful company. YTB is about fun%u2026about saving money on travel and taxes%u2026 and about some extra money by sending people to your website to book their vacation and travel. And, an additional income stream with bonuses and commissions in available to those share this exciting home business with others.
ReplyDeleteBefore we begin with the specifics of training, let`s make sure we`ve covered the basics. Fallow the plan listed below exactly , and don`t skip any steps.
1-Go to this website (www.ytb.com/dufortbusiness) when the page is open sign up for it. When you done sign up, don`t forget I am your sponsor(Jean Gardy Dufort) when you done they gonna ask you were you wanna be click on ( become a RTA)
2-When you done do all those thing, now u get your own website.
3- Go to your website and log in. This will take you to your "Back office". Your YTB personal website address, Username, and password should have been emailed to you. If you have not received this information within 3 days- please phone 618-655-9477 to speak with a customer support team member.
4- You can order your YTB Business cards. This can be from the back office of your website by selecting YTB Business cards.
*will see how much money you can make, in 1 month and 2 months. This website WILL help YOU a lot.
Don`t never forget, when you sign up for it
i am your sponsor (Jean Gardy Dufort)and you can join us for free. When you sign up, they gonna ask you were you wanna be, click on (Become a RT
http://www.squidoo.com/seize-cars
AT: "As to you actually selling travel you could go to a legitimate host and get 80% instead of the 60% you now make, have a valid IATAN card and be more respected. I don't get why you serious travel sellers actually stay with YTB when you can make more money elsewhere."
ReplyDeleteBecause we have the best of both worlds! What I make in marketing MORE than makes up for the travel commissions missed.
If you want to get started, it`s easy to get started once you`ve made up your mind to become a part of this wonderful company. YTB is about fun%u2026about saving money on travel and taxes%u2026 and about some extra money by sending people to your website to book their vacation and travel. And, an additional income stream with bonuses and commissions in available to those share this exciting home business with others.
ReplyDeleteBefore we begin with the specifics of training, let`s make sure we`ve covered the basics. Fallow the plan listed below exactly , and don`t skip any steps.
1-Go to this website (www.ytb.com/dufortbusiness) when the page is open sign up for it. When you done sign up, don`t forget I am your sponsor(Jean Gardy Dufort) when you done they gonna ask you were you wanna be click on ( become a RTA)
2-When you done do all those thing, now u get your own website.
3- Go to your website and log in. This will take you to your "Back office". Your YTB personal website address, Username, and password should have been emailed to you. If you have not received this information within 3 days- please phone 618-655-9477 to speak with a customer support team member.
4- You can order your YTB Business cards. This can be from the back office of your website by selecting YTB Business cards.
*will see how much money you can make, in 1 month and 2 months. This website WILL help YOU a lot.
Don`t never forget, when you sign up for it
i am your sponsor (Jean Gardy Dufort)and you can join us for free. When you sign up, they gonna ask you were you wanna be, click on (Become a RT
http://www.squidoo.com/seize-cars
Once again, I agree with you John that those things shouldn't be going on but it is not "employees" doing it. It is independent contractors. They are not in the home office everyday. I agree that those that are recruiting that way with YTB are wrong. Not only that its just plain ridiculous. I mean, think of the quality of people that answer those adds. Those are the people that want something for nothing and I agree that it's not right.
ReplyDeleteFireman--you are wrong, YTB will do nothing about them until they become a problem. They are reactionary.
ReplyDeleteAnd honestly, who likes to work for a company where you are constantly defending their business practices? I mean the criticism is not coming from one disgruntled individual. IATAN, RCCL, ASTA, The Travel Institute, OSSN, NACTA, and hundreds of suppliers too weak to come forward all look down upon your company, but because some retired pastor talks a good talk, everyone buys into the program hook line and sinker.
I wonder if Coach was not a pastor how well he would do with YTB. It seems he leans on that as a crutch and a hook for many. ANd is he really a pastor? I mean anyone can call themselves a pastor...right?
"At one point Tomer was into Primamerica. They jump from one to the other to make more money off of poor unsuspecting people."
ReplyDeleteThat is a statement made out of pure ignorance. That is the ONLY other company Coach was with and he had the largest sales of all. When they sold out and changed the compensation is when he left. I don't believe for a second that they are out there to take money from "unsuspecting people". That is just pure bunk and an easy thing to say on a blog.
Humble-Not it's not. I don't know where someone drummed into your heads that you won't make money just selling travel. That is simply not true. I can guarantee I make more money than you. And, as I said I am respected. Let's face it YTB does not have a very good reputation.
ReplyDeleteFiremedic-The problem is recruiting the down line that makes you an MLM. And, really what are you going to do when you tap out all your friends and neighbors signing them up?
True Story-My husband and I were at a business event here in our town and some YTB person came up to us and tried to recruit us with the lure of free travel. Politely, I told him that I sold travel and he kept at it. We finally excused ourselves. This poor guy ended up being shunned at the event. Most reasonable people don't like to be recruited especially business owners, excecutives etc. I have been at shows. I have talked to vendors. YTB is a pariah. A necessary evil. They don't really want to do business with you but hey money is money. Kinda like getting in bed with the devil.
Well Scott was in Primerica then went into financial planning and then printing and then YTB.
ReplyDeleteCoach was a minister at some point as well before he quit Primerica
Yes he was a pastor. For many years. I have a retired pastor friend who says that even though he is retired he is always a pastor. He quit being a full-time pastor after his wife died. That is when he began with A.L. Williams, that subsequently became Primerica.
ReplyDeleteAs far as RCCL, IATA.....they have every right to do what they want and believe the way they want. I do feel that most of what they say is legit. I did see that RCCL was getting ready to lay off some people because sales were down 34%. I don't think Carnival was announcing the same, at least they haven't told anybody if that is the case.
Firemedic-Ask any financial planner what they think of Primamerica and Tomer. Don't call me ignorant again. Ok. You jump on us when we call you names yet you do it to us all the time. Believe me I am NOT ignorant nor do I appreciate the tone implying that.
ReplyDeleteThe next time you are at a real travel show, approach any vendor ( a largeish one) and just sigh and say "boy, these YTB folks are something" and see what happens.
ReplyDeleteI did not call YOU ignorant. I said what you said was out of ignorance. That doesn't mean you are stupid, it just means you don't know or you don't have enough information. It was not a personal attack like what anti-bloggers do here.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, I did ask a financial planner before I got started with YTB about the Tomer's and he said he had nothing bad to say about them. True story.
AT: "She was into other money making ventures also not just YTB and other MLMS which I am told YTB does not allow."
ReplyDeleteThat is a false statement and if you'd like the corrected version, I'd be more than happy to provide it. Oh! But wait....John is a part of the company now. He can share the corrected version.
RCCL laying off people had to do with the economy and gas prices. Not YTB. Get over it.
ReplyDeleteYou know firemedic, I really think no matter what we say you just aren't going to believe it. You think we are all out to get YTB and that is simply not true. It's the business model, recruiting gone wild and lack of standards that offend us.
Why you stay in a company that no one likes and not go where you could actually make more money and be respected is beyond my comprehension. You guys are like addicts. Won't believe the truth until you hit rock bottom or in this case are flat broke and YTB tosses you out.
John: "I wonder if Coach was not a pastor how well he would do with YTB. It seems he leans on that as a crutch and a hook for many. ANd is he really a pastor? I mean anyone can call themselves a pastor...right?"
ReplyDeleteNO, they cannot John. It's a CALLING and a VOCATION.
AT,
ReplyDeleteYou draw many conclusions again out of ignorance (not stupid but lack of information).
AT: "Humble-Not it's not. I don't know where someone drummed into your heads that you won't make money just selling travel. That is simply not true. I can guarantee I make more money than you."
ReplyDeleteI NEVER said I wouldn't make money selling travel or anything even close to that!! That's the problem. This thing has a bunch of people who aren't reading closely or can't comprehend what's read.
AT,
ReplyDeleteMost of your conclusions are only opinions and negative hopes for YTB failure.
And firemedic, you are seeing YTB through a Kool Aid haze. You can't handle the truth. BTW-Did you know almost 3,000 travel agents and suppliers signed a petition against YTB. I am sure John will be so kind to post the link for you to look at since you are relatively new to the fold.
ReplyDeleteHumble-Earlier you said and I don't have time to find the post if you are in YTB you can't be in other MLM's. Which is it?
It's been fun chatting with everyone but I am off to my Country Club to meet my dh for dinner and not have to worry about running into or being recruited by YTB because alas none are members. Something to do with the high initiation fee and monthly membership.
It appears that Denyse has erased most of her blog as well. I wonder what is going on?
ReplyDeletehttp://denyse-turner.blogspot.com/
AT: "Humble-Earlier you said and I don't have time to find the post if you are in YTB you can't be in other MLM's. Which is it?"
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, you're mistaken. Have a great dinner.
John: "It appears that Denyse has erased most of her blog as well. I wonder what is going on?"
ReplyDeleteI'll tell you if you tell me why you JOINED YTB??
Denise--if he is in YTB I am sure he can get all the info he needs...and where did you hear that rumor anyow?
ReplyDeleteYes I know about the agents that filed a petition against YTB. I believe that was the reason that RCCL quit taking bookings. And is also the reason that Carnival benefitted from over 12,000 new passengers in one day.
ReplyDeleteSo Denyse, now that we're going to be working together, could you please tell us what kind of training and support to expect from you?
ReplyDeletePuhleeeze firman.....no offense to John but he does not have that kind of clout.
ReplyDeleteAnd YTB did not sell 12,000 passengers in one day. They sold like 5000 certificates for $399. Granted it is a $2 million dollar day for CCL but that is a drop in the bucket to them.
In the real world with real cabins that equates to about 800 cabins sold in a day and a large agency or host can easily do that without a special day. And honestly it is embarassing that with (at the time) 85,000 RTAs that you could not come up with more than that. Coach should have seen the writing on the wall then--no wonder he could not sell out his two ego cruises. There are so few RTAs that are into supporting travel---the rest are recruiting
Kate and others. You could get REP training as you signed up as REPs.
ReplyDeleteI don't know why you have had such a hard time recognizing and understanding the difference and separation between the REP and RTA.
Insider,
ReplyDeleteI believe your stats are wrong. Check them again. CCL did not treat it as a "drop in the bucket".
As typical your comments about it being "embarrassing" and "ego cruise" is just more of the school-yard lingo and accusations that come from this blog. Like I said before, You won't see Coach, Scott, Kim, or any other of the officers attacking you the same way.
I keep hearing the phrase "we don't like your business model". Explain to me what that means and please only state facts about the business model and not opinions. I feel like the concept of the business model is misunderstood.
ReplyDeletefiremedic227-
ReplyDeleteYou will never win with this TTA crowd.
They are a choice bunch.
It is like going on the Huffington Post as a conservative.
These TTAs loathe YTB.
It is comical to read.
They just cannot help themselves.
They have all of the anti-YTB buzz phrases down pat.
To a new reader, he or she would certainly believe that YTB is having an impact on their travel sales.
If we were not, they wouldn't be concerned about our little company.
They will pass it off that we are getting all of these FAM trips.
It just isn't fair!
Booh-Hooh!
With my hundreds of RTAs, the perks and courtesies are way down the list.
The freedom of having your own business tops the list.
Making money when people book travel online is a no-brainer.
Selling group travel is getting easier and easier.
The tax advantages are there for anyone in pursuit of a profit.
Again, you will never win with this half-glass-empty crowd.
Whine, whine, fuss, fuss . . .
I'm glad to spend my time with positive people.
Don't let them get you down.
They are getting their kicks signing up as a YTB Rep.
The are motivation to me with their arrogant attitudes.
You, firemedic227, are with the right company and the right people.
Not with a bunch of losers who profess their ignorance about YTB on a daily basis.
Fireman..the business model was a term used by RCCL. But MLM is indeed a business model and from day 1 I have said it is not an effective one for the sale of travel. Feel free to read the previous 333 entries to determine why I feel that way.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you on the 12,000 passengers as that was the reported figure, but it was mostly of the $399 certificate variety. And of course Carnival is going to appreciate it. If you had sold 100 passengers they would have appreciated it. And they certainly do appreciate your business throughout the year and you have made Ann one of the most successful BDMs in the system not to mention one of the most well paid.
It does NOT indicate that it was good business and that the clients were satisfied with your service. They may have, but you have so little interaction that it is impossible to tell. And it is up to CCL, as it was to RCCL to determine if they want your type of business or not.
Can someone tell me if the RTAs have a way to track repeat business that is NOT personal travel? You have been around for 7 years now, and the number of repeaters would be an interesting study.
"I agree with you on the 12,000 passengers as that was the reported figure, but it was mostly of the $399 certificate variety."
ReplyDeleteMore spin from John.
Yes, YTB sold a lot of certificates.
But there were thousands of berths sold traditionally, mostly with group cruises.
In my group it was 85% traditional berths, 15% certificates.
That certainly was not "mostly of the $399 certificate variety".
Mix---if you recall, the bookings needed to be made directly with Carnival or on the website and groups were specifically excluded.
ReplyDeleteThe program was for new sales not sales into existing groups!
In My Humble Opinion....... said...
ReplyDeleteAT: "As to you actually selling travel you could go to a legitimate host and get 80% instead of the 60% you now make, have a valid IATAN card and be more respected. I don't get why you serious travel sellers actually stay with YTB when you can make more money elsewhere."
Because we have the best of both worlds! What I make in marketing MORE than makes up for the travel commissions missed.
And again, you prove the point! You are a MARKETER and NOT a TRAVEL AGENT, therefore cannot call yourself a TRAVEL AGENT nor be allowed the perks of a TA.
What part of it do you not understand? If the majority of the income comes from the MARKETING side, then you are a MARKETER!
Ainsworth, in 2004 I made more in real estate then from my career. That doesn't make me a real estate agent. So, if someone makes more in the marketing side why can't they be called a marketer AND a travel agent (providing they are legitimately working the travel aspect)?
ReplyDeletePeople can have 2 titles. I have a full time job, but I happily refer to myself as a online travel store owner as well despite the fact that my paycheck far outweighs what I have made in YTB.
Josh--thank you for providing a perfect example (although I am not sure you see it)
ReplyDeleteYes, you sold some real estate and made money, but you are NOT an real estate agent because you have not completed the training and you are not vested in the industry.
Similarly, just because you travel, or rent a website that sells travel, does not make you a travel agent.
Were you invited to the Realtor conventions?
Why is it that YTB sells flowers and cars and camping gear and God knows what else and yet you all insist that you own "travel businesses"? and are "travel agents"?
Do yo have business cards that say you are a Used Car Salesman? Florist? Tent Seller?
No, because travel is "sexy" and travel is the product that sells, so you have latched onto that.
I have never claimed to be nor am I supposed to claim to be a "travel agent". I am a REFERRING travel agent, merely meaning that I REFER people to my website to book the same travel they would with Expedia, travelocity...... That's exactly what Expedia and such are...Referring Travel Agencies.
ReplyDeleteSo I understand your frustration with those that call themselves travel agents. I do know that YTB does not condone that. Now I have taken a lot of training and as I learn more eventually I believe I should have that right, especially if it is part of the franchise system.
Oh, and what the heck with the problem of selling flowers on our website? I mean, go to Expedia and see what other kind of ads pop up. Do you think Expedia gets a cut? You bet they do. Getting upset about marketing other products I feel is just plain nonsense. That's called working smart and offering the customer more.
Because, Josh, if your main focus is MARKETING, then you are a MARKETER and NOT a TRAVEL AGENT. Therefore, the answer to the question "how do you make money" is MARKETING and not selling travel. Therefore, you should not be afforded the rights and priviliges of being a TRAVEL AGENT.
ReplyDeleteAs I stated before, people that get involved with MLMs are like addicts, and it takes a lot to get through to them, and personally, I have neither the time nor patience to deal with it.
Firemedic...lets see if we can put it in terms that you might understand. By your screen name, one might presume that you are a fireman/EMT. I would assume that you took lots of time and effort to educate yourself for that occupation, and are quite proud of it.
Now, lets say that I took a basic first aid and CPR course. So now, I'm going to start a company that sells websites to people that allows them to refer others to it in medical emergencies, so they can look up and perform emergency medical procedures such as starting an IV, using an EKG machine, inserting a Foley, intubating someone, etc. The people that own these websites are called REFERRING EMT's. The REFERRING EMT's have basic first aid, but that's it, and really can't help with anything, other than telling you to go to their website to find out anything that you might want or need to know, and beyond that, to call a doctor or hospital. But because they own a website that has "all this", etc., they expect all the right and priviliges afforded to REAL EMT's, the ones that have spent the time, money and effort to become the best that they can be in the profession.
Now, we all know that this is a silly example, and that it would never come to be, but this is exactly what ytb and it's "referring travel agents" are doing to the travel industry. Think about it.
Offering the customer more is fine. You have a division that sells flowers and cars and tents. They are not ads they are an integral part of your business. Do you call yourself a Referring Used Car Salesman or a Referring Florist or a Referring Tent Salesman?
ReplyDeleteI guess the issue is a referring travel AGENT. You are not an agent selling travel by any stretch of the imagination. Just as I can put an ad on ebay for a watch I am not a jeweler.
If you said, hey I work for YTB and what we do is offer you the opportunity to buy cars flowers tents and travel at competitive prices online, check it out sometime. That would be fine.
But you don't. I am looking at two business cards pulled from local bulletin boards: One is printed professionally and says
Jennifer Hirmer, Referring Travel Agennt
The other is printed froma color printer and looks horrible and says
Eric Davis, Travel Agent along with the slogan "Why take a VA Cation, when you can take a PAY Cation"
These were picked up this morning on my way out of a local coffee shop.
I looked at the bulletin board and did not see any Referring Florists.
Yes this is my biggest complaint. I do not like the term RTA. The general public does not pay any attention to the word referring they only hear travel agent. I have spent a lot of money and time on becoming a Certified Travel Counselor and I do not think that someone should be able to just buy a website and call themselves a travel agent referring or otherwise. You are travel website owners not travel agents. I don't care how much travel you sell on your website if you are only referring people to it then you are not a travel agent.
ReplyDeleteAt my last job I sat a few feet from the Orbitz agents and they do real TA work but do not even get the title of travel agents they are called customer service agents.
So did you work for Orbitz? I have to agree somewhat with the travel agent name. We don't directly handle the money of customers (or at least they are not supposed to according to YTB and will be terminated if found in violation).
ReplyDeleteYour example of the EMT is good. Only thing is that Paramedicine is a very defined profession in that it is a tested for and registered program. I have yet to find the term "Travel Agent" as one of those and that is not YTB's fault. I do feel though that YTB does have responsibility in making sure the training and professionalism is taken serious by anyone claiming the term. I do believe they are taking steps to do that.
As far as YTB telling an INDEPENDENT contractor what they can and cannot do that it not entirely true. Just like when you own a McDonald's franchise, you have to operate by their rules if you want to carry their name.
ReplyDeleteThere is a HUGE difference between being an Independent Contractor (or Affiliate) and being a franchisee. Read the IRS rules on who can be called in independent contractor veresus who is an employee. Franchisee is a whole different animal, involves a franchise contract that does spell out what you can/cannot do, what you HAVE to do, etc.