An agent in the Dallas market recounted this story in a forum earlier this week. Words cannot express the disgust at this.
I had a gentleman walk into the office the other day and sit at my desk. As soon as he started talking to me, it was evident that he was mentally challenged. I'd say he was at a 6 or 7 year old mentally. He had on a YTB shirt and started asking me about how he could book a group on a cruise so he could go for free. I talked to him for at least 1/2 hour and found out that he had paid the fee to be an agent with YTB, paid his website fees and couldn't understand why he wasn't making any money from it. He said he was promised that he would make money.Note to Rod: I know there are no names and it was a posted in a forum so I do not know the author,as with most things with YTB, it would not surprise me if it were true. However, all I can definitively say is that it was indeed posted on a travel forum and if true, it is despicable.
He works as a part time bagger at a local grocery store and lives in a group home environment. He doesn't even own his own computer.
I was sickened that someone would take advantage of a person like this. It makes me want to find whoever sold him the package and beat the snot out of them. Anyway, thanks for letting me vent.
Sorry . . .
ReplyDeleteMy BS-detector just went off.
"An agent in the Dallas market" . . .
Here we go.
Count it as fact.
Could an agent in Dallas possibly make a story up and post it in a forum?
NO . . . not an upstanding TTA!
Just couldn't happen.
The TTAs are pure as the wind-driven snow.
They have no ax to grind with YTB.
Wouldn't even THINK about conjuring up negative things about YTB to further the anti-YTB template.
No, not a TTA.
You continue to surprise us all by how far you will go, John, to further the anti-YTB rhetoric.
This one trumps them all.
Wow.
I saw this post on the forum as well, and there is no reason to believe that the agent that posted it wasn't telling the truth. He's never had a posting on this blog, and I have never seen him post anything like this before.
ReplyDeleteApparently the ladies that work in this Texas agency have seen this poor guy bagging groceries.
Obviously this poor guy has been horribly taken advantage of. Fortunately, there are laws against stuff like this. We're hopeful that adult protective services or the AG's office will be able to get this guy's money back.
kholmes is correct. To my knowledge he has never posted on the blog and this is really the first time his username really posted about YTB on a forum.
ReplyDeleteI thought I was pretty clear that I stated my personal knowledge of truthfulness lies in that it was posted on the forum.
But I have to laugh that when someone posts something that a TTA feels is ridiculous, the MLM crowd screams "you just wait, it is true, you will see." But when I post something you don't feel is true I am "throwing mud, lying, and accused of being anti-YTB rhetoric" when it clearly was stated the only fact I know is that it was recounted on a forum.
Take it for what it is. If there are any updates, you can bet I will let you know. But for now, I am just passing along something someone said and stating my belief that from what I have heard in the past and what I have personally witnessed---this would not surprise me in the least is proven true.
John,
ReplyDeleteI like to consider myself a reasonable guy. I also could see the value in your blog if used and displayed properly. Here is the problem. If you want to report on things, I applaud your efforts. But, the problem here is this, and you have mentioned this before, people get to this blog when doing searches for things related to YTB. I have had 2 prospects do research and then called me and asked me about your blog. I would be willing to bet that most people don't fully read all the comments. And, with that said, I am sure some people wouldn't even read your entire "disclaimer" at the end of your post. Is that their fault, of course, but you are feeding into that. You are mixing "news" and "opinion" and have blurred the line so much that even you just assume things might be fact.
Now, I am not saying that this isn't true because I have no first hand knowledge of it.
Remember this, it is your blog so YTB people have no choice but to come on here and defend. Also, if someone posts something negative about TTAs or pro YTB without documentation I don't necessarily believe it either, unless I happen to have a first hand account of it myself. But, frankly John, this is just wrong. Especially the source. A random poster on a random message forum with no accountability whatsoever. And, you cleverly don't say it is true, just that it woudn't surprise you. Low blow John, even for you. I wish you would reconsider this blog post and bring some credibility and accountability to your reporting.
Sorry Josh. If you want news, try cnn.com, msnbc.com, abcnews.com, foxnews.com, reuters.com or associatedpress.com They are your best sources.
ReplyDeleteIf my little piece of the internet is disrupting your recruiting efforts, then I am pleased. I am not gonna lie to you.
If your potential recruits are unable to realize the difference between a blog and a news source, perhaps you two deserve one another.
The next time you get one of those people, ask them if they read the title of the blog? Maybe the description?
I am chastised for posting something vague (and I came forward and stated it was vague) yet there is no backlash when a MLMer claims to be making 7 figures selling travel? No backlash when Ben Pittman from South Carolina tells me he is an "average" RTA selling $100K in travel.
You ask me for documentation. I wrote a column over a year ago asking for documentation. I am still waiting!
But Josh, thanks for letting me know. Now go find your Plan B on recruiting.
This is just my opinion, I speak for nobody but myself. This is John's blog, the point of the blog is to state his opinions and feelings on MLM's. Then as opposers to MLM, we have the right to state our opinions as comments. If people come to this blog and do not FULLY read all of the information, that is their own doing. If I am researching a company (say YTB) and come across this blog then it is my DUTY to fully read all the information. With that said..John has posted several times with NAMES of people who've done that "rogue RTA" thing, and nobody says a word. The other day he did this with names and nobody said anything.
ReplyDeleteI read the post on the other forum, and frankly it is disgusting. The agent does not post on this blog, and they've never said anything before for/against MLM's. They merely thought that this incident was horrible, and from what I read are looking into finding this man and having whomever signed him up held accountable.
We are not evil people, we do not want to see people hurt or taken advantage of. I would never lie and make up a story to bad-mouth anyone, and in talking to majority of people on the TA forums, and getting to know many of them, I would say they wouldn't either.
John,
ReplyDeleteI respect your post, and you are correct that if someone comes here they should realize that it is opinion. Also, I respect your honesty in saying that this could hurt my recruiting effort. But, you may not like this, when those 2 people called me I had them read through and read the comments. And both decided that if there are people so filled with passionate hatred then there must be something to YTB. Both have joined. Thanks for helping my recruiting effort.
Lisa, I know you are not evil. Heck, I know John isn't evil, he just has a passion, IMO gearedtoward hatred of something which I don't think is healthy.
With that said, you say do you don't want to hurt anyone, well if yours and John's crusade is successful you could hurt many people by taking YTB off the map. (now I know that won't happen but that is your goal, isn't it?)
YTB has helped me by helping me bring in about 1500 per month. My wife decided she wanted to stay home with our kids. That was very important to us. If your wish is granted and YTB fails, my kids will suffer. Think about that!
John, you really should call me. I left my phone number in a private message on scam.com for you and Travel Lisa.
ReplyDeleteThis post today is just like the Danny Borg case. People reading this ask yourselves this obvious question.
"Why is it all these intelligent TTAs can't ever get the name of these dummy YTB people going into their office so that can be reported them to YTB corporate?"
Why is it all these no-name YTB dummies end up gettig reported on public forums, but not to YTB corporate?"
Don't talk to me about unconscionable because to me it's more unconscionable publicly slandering a company without also taking names and reporting them to the company.
Josh
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, its not just mine & John's crucade, the last I saw there were thousands of agents who oppose the MLM model. My goal has never been to have YTB removed from the map. My wish is simply that they change their current form and actually become a travel agency (of sorts) and require the people they hire to have a clue about travel, and not be in it simply for travel perks, tax write off's and such. Those that have a passion to become a TA should have the knowledge and love of travel behind it. Not simply pointing someone to a faceless site and not offering any help at all. Thats not what its about. If you want to be the faceless website, so be it, but your not a TA and nor should you have any perk that goes with it or call yourself such in any shape or form.
I am a work at home mom myself. I am not the evil bitch some seem to portray me as on here because I chose to be vocal and state my own opinions. I truly understand your desire to have mom home for the kids, I wanted the same for my kids, nor do I want anyone to suffer in any shape or form. You can still be a work at home TA for an better host with better comm splits if your true passion is travel and not recruiting. Some of us have worked extremely hard for where we are, what we do and to have the word "travel agent" tarnished because Mary Smith down the street who was sent to the wrong place by her "travel agent", doesnt know the difference between an RTA or a TA.
Rod--I will call you later. But you need to understand it is not your job, nor mine to police what YTB does.
ReplyDeleteDo you call Microsoft when you get a BSOD because it is not working as they told you it was supposed to work?
YTB needs to police themselves. Danny did nothing wrong in his letter and to be honest, you trying to recruit him (into a company that you are not even affiliated with any longer) was laughable! Did you mention to him that you were with YTB and lost money for 3 years and now are planning on spending a few more thousand dollars "investigating" only to rejoin again? Were you ethical?
Actually Rod, I've reported about 6 people from various forums, craiglist, etc to corporate on several occasions. Names/websites ect, and never once did I receive a response.
ReplyDeleteTo me that tells me, they do not care..so why should we bother.? What about the post that John did the other day WITH A NAME, did you report him? Did anyone report Earl the nutcase for calling John at home and calling him an a-hole? I promised you that if on my cruise I was approached by anyone trying to recruit that I would take names, cards, pictures and a full statement from them. Would that suffice?
Lisa,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your reply. So, the franchise thing should solve your concern then? Good to hear that.
Also, what is wrong with recruiting? What is wrong with building a sales force in order to expand your travel sales?
I would agree that there should be training and I believe that YTB has taken necessary steps over the last 2 years to get to a great point. More needs to be done and more will be. Read the press release about the franchise situation. TRAINING will be a key element. For me, the recruiting helps not necessarily for the recruiting bonuses and comissions but for the travel overrides. I get a 10% override for travel sales from everyone in my power team. Yes I get 60% on my own sales but in other words for every 6 people in my power team, I get the equvialent of another full RTA comissions. I have just shy of 50 in my power team. It is like have 8 RTAs comissions without having to pay a salary or overhead for their efforts. I am building a travel sales team. Tell me what is wrong with that?
When people concentrate more on the recruiting, and signing up JUST ANYONE in order to put more money in their pockets. That's whats wrong. If you are out actively seeking a travel agent to work in your travel agency, then its understandable. But majority of the "recruiting" I've seen is signing up anyone who has $500 to join wether they can point out Canada on a map or not. How is that helpful to our industry? Training should not be an option. It should be MANDATORY before anyone can proclaim to be a TA/RTA in any form. Taking a CLIA test is not training.
ReplyDeleteWell, hopefully Lisa, you and others, will be pleasantly surprised in the not to distant future. I would be fine if people like John's hatred was simply replaced with indifference.
ReplyDeleteKate said -
ReplyDelete"I saw this post on the forum as well, and there is no reason to believe that the agent that posted it wasn't telling the truth. He's never had a posting on this blog, and I have never seen him post anything like this before."
Oh, yes, Kate.
That settles it.
He's "never had a posting on this blog . . . and I have never seen him post anything like this before".
Sounds totally credible to me!
Someone who has not never posted on this blog.
OK.
You have never seen him post anything like this before.
OK.
No name, no agency, never heard from him before.
But let's believe him.
Doesn't matter if it is true or not.
It's the thought that counts.
Hey Mix...that's like your information. No name, no connection, no nothing. Maybe you should buy that foam statue, put it in your backyard and charge $5 bucks a head. I bet you would have RTAs flocking to see it. You know lines like the one outside of YTB HQs?
ReplyDeleteOr maybe get in on Doogies fake tan scam. I know you coule make a buck or two...maybe even beat out the average RTA earnings. You never know....franchise it!!
Bet you would make more money than you are now! You know...1 BILLION in travel sales by the year 3008!!!
We can debate whether or not the post is valid or not all day long. But the fact remains that the person who reported this incident has stayed out of the mlm blogs and boards. There is no reason to believe that Bob just woke up on the wrong side of the bed one day and made this story up. I know that both he and his staff are working to locate this guy who came into the agency and get more info.
ReplyDeleteWe've all seen videos, Craig's list ads, and more filled with false earnings claims and deceptive recruiting practices. It's not too big of a stetch to believe that this happened. Had it not come from a credible source, John wouldn't have posted it in the first place.
Josh said that he would like to see John's hatred replaced by indifference. Again what you fail to see is that our issue with the mlms is, and always has been, that the mlm agents recieve no manditory travel training, and therefor have damaged the credibility of agents everywhere. The traditional TTAs that are upset about the mlms feel this way because we've been succsessful in travel, feel it is our responsibility and duty to try to enforce some kind of standards in this industry.
If you want blogs like this and negative comments to go away, encourage your leaders to enforce manditory travel training for all rtas. That will solve this problem. When I contacted Marcia Dempsey at YTB and proposed this as a way to ease tensions between TTAs and RTAs, I received no reply. Had YTB had some minimum standards, you wouldn't have lost IATAN or RCCL. So, in short, if you want to point a finger, point it at the YTB leaders.
How can you possibly believe that you will have any credibility with the travel industry or with consumers when you know nothing about travel other than how to point someone to a website?
Regarding the franchise band wagon you are all jumping on you obviously do not understand how franchising works and the regulations/hoops one has to go through to do it. Because of all the red tape etc. the attorneys are going to be wracking up hours as will the bean counters etc. Do you really think you will be able to be grandfathered in or get a franchise for a small amount? Think again. Ten to one the franchise fee will be out of most of your reach. Then what will you do.
ReplyDeleteJosh-As to your wife staying home and affording it. There are a ton of host agencies where you will earn a better commission split and have respectability and training if you truly want to sell travel and service customers. The problem is you and the majority of your counterparts at YTB do not want to work or sell travel. You want to recruit, sit back and watch the dough roll in while people click away on your website. Furthermore, Coach and the Woods River crew do not have ANY travel knowledge of background. They don't care about the travel industry. It's the downline and recruiting that brings them the money.
There are plenty of part time jobs for you to do that will bring money into your household without having to sell your soul and a down line such as umpiring kid's games etc. I know other stay at home Mom's who take in typing or babysitting at home while their kids are asleep to get extra money instead of working for a sleazy MLM. There are legitimate ways to do it. Problem is you and the rest are lazy and don't want to put the effort into something.
Maxine,
ReplyDeleteYou don't know me. You don't know my wife. You are entitled to your opinion. I do not believe that I am in something sleazy. I wouldn't do it. I researched it for 8 months before I joined. I then made a decision. Truth is, I bring in 1500 per month now and the way network marketing is set up that can and will continue to grow without additional effort. Does that make me lazy? Hell no. It makes me smart for realizing I can leverage my time and efforts. I do sell travel. My team sells travel. Millions? of course not. Thousands? many do. And as someone who gets a piece of each of that I am thrilled.
So, you suggest my wife and I stop leveraging our time and maybe she can babysit while the kids sleep? Are you out of your mind?
Thanks for the suggestion though.
I also know full well about franchises and I do assume that I wil be able to upgrade my RTA status to a franchise for a fee. I will explore that if and when it comes to fruition.
But, next time I hire a babysitter for my kids or see the pimple faced referee at my son's soccer game, I will sit back in shame knowing it wasn't me or my wife doing it. ;)
A comment on the recruiting. I jsut found in the 1Q 10K an interesting number that eluded me before.
ReplyDeleteAs of March 31, 2008, YTB had a total of 341,305 total people affiliated with them as either a Rep or an RTA. Of that number, there were 138,814 RTA Travel Stores. That means that 202,491 people are only in it for the recruiting.
Does it seem strange to anyone else that only 40% of the people that sign up to be part of the soon to be world's largest travel company actually have a website to sell travel?
John, you know that that isn't true....
ReplyDeleteNow, this may not necessarily be a good thing, but when someone decides to no longer be an RTA, they are still a REP. That number would include people who may have dropped out 5 years ago. John, I know you know that.
Josh, I'm sorry that your kids will suffer if and when YTB goes under. Maybe you will then have to look for an honest and reputable job, one with integrity that doesn't put the screws to the average RTA. That is what you are doing. Sorry.
ReplyDeleteMixed - I see you made your profile invisible. Could I have expected anything less? For the record, the only times I think about you is when I read your bullshit and when I turn on the garbage disposal.
Dude---tell it to the Coach. You folks use numbers and words only when they suit you. TW is trash for publishing the letter. TW is gold for the Power list. Well here it is from the 10Q on Page 21.
ReplyDeleteYTB Marketing conducts business through marketing, education and support of its sales force, consisting of 341,305 Reps who are
responsible for marketing and selling online travel web sites to Referring Travel Agents (“RTAs”), most of whom work from their
homes. Of the 341,305 Reps, 138,814 are RTAs with active travel websites. YTB Marketing’s sales of online travel agencies (via its
Reps) to RTAs benefit from certain advantages.
ANd that nonsense about when someone quits we still keep them on the books is a bullshit marketing ploy. Tonight when you do your meeting I am sure you will stress that almost 350,000 people have seen the light and joined YTB.
But when I mention it it is a completely different story.
So there you have it. File a complaint with the SEC and let them know you have the inside scoop.
Where did you work when you were 16--back when you had a Just Over Broke? If I call them will they still tell me that you are on their employee list? My guess is not!
Again, I stress you initial comment on that point said something that you know to be false. That was that 40% of people that sign up have a website.
ReplyDelete40% of all people who HAVE signed up over the last 7 years still have a website.
Big difference as you made it seem that 60% of people who get into YTB have no intention of selling travel.
So who do I believe. Josh with the stay at home wife who is worried about what will happen when he needs to get a real job? Or the legal filing sent to the SEC by YTB.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, both have an equal chance of being valid..or not.
When YTB states to the government that they consist of "341,305 Reps who are responsible for marketing and selling online travel web sites to Referring Travel Agents (“RTAs”)" Am I to assume that is false information? It does not say that many are inactive. Actually it uses "ING" which indicates presently.
THen they follow it up with "Of the 341,305 Reps, 138,814 are RTAs with active travel websites."
So, now according to you, this number cannot be correct either.
So tell me Josh, how many reps did YTB have at the end of the first quarter and how many RTAs did they have? You seem to have the answers so I will patiently await the "real" information!
Josh if you really are selling travel, and your team is really selling travel then why on earth are you giving away 40% of your commissions to YTB? That doesn't make any sense. You could find a host agency who would pay you much more.
ReplyDeleteJohn, where did you come up with I tried to recruit Danny Borg?
ReplyDeleteI didn't tell you that. If Danny told you, that's another lie Danny told.
YTBs figures are kind of like TWs circulation figures - they include the 5 or 6 copies each agency might recieve as 'individual' subscriptions. Advertisers care about such figures so TW makes them happy.
ReplyDeleteJohn,
ReplyDeleteI never said the numbers weren't true. I simply stated that your intent in saying that 40% of people who join are only planning on recruiting that part isn't true as was discussed.
KHOLMES, let me say it again, if selling travel was the only way to make money then you are correct, there are other ways to do better than the 60% but if you bothered to read my earlier comment you would clearly see the answer. Through recruiting a sales force, I get a 10% override on all of the travel sales that they(my power team) do. So, for every 6 people at that 10% level it is like have another one of me. I have 49 people in my power team, so equivalently I have 8 full RTAs value of travel comissions. 8 at 60% is considerably higher then one at even 100% comission level. Do you understand now why I stay with YTB to sell travel and build my sales team?
When someone espouses all the benefits of YTB to someone that is not in the scheme, it is recruiting.
ReplyDeleteDidn't you tell him all the good things you saw in YTB? You indicated you did.
Did you hand him a sigh up form, not at all!
Josh..
ReplyDeleteI said that 60% of the people do not plan on selling travel with the "worlds largest travel company in 2010"
If 59.3% of the people do not have websites and are not able to book travel
and
40.7% of the people do have travel websites and are able to book travel
Does it not reason that 40.7% are interested in selling travel and 59.3% are not?
Where is your common sense? Basic math.
If everyone in the class of 10 either got an A or an F. If 7 got an A...how many got an F?
Your spinning John
ReplyDeleteJohn -
ReplyDeleteYou are being a bigger jerk than usual today.
You absolutely know the numbers.
But you chose to ignor reality.
The 300K plus number of Reps include the following:
Anyone who has been an RTA/REP since 2001.
Anyone who has been a REP-only and signed up FOR FREE since 2001.
YTB does not purge the ranks.
It was part of the YourTravelBiz.com rules and regulations when the company was launched.
Unless you resign the REP position in writing, you are still listed among the ranks.
It allows you to still benefit from any RTA growth that would happen under you in the future.
Personally, I wish the ranks were purged because tens of thousands of Reps came in free without buying a travel website.
And getting something for free usually leads to little commitment.
But that is the way it was designed back in 2001 and YTB does not take anything away from the Reps.
We HAVE TO report the 300K Reps in any disclosures.
We only MARKET the RTA count, because they are currently paying the monthly license fee of $49.95.
We have to report the Reps.
But it does not reflect reality when it comes to current status of YTB.
And it gives anti-YTB bloggers something to use against us with his creative math.
Even when that blogger knows the real truth.
I almost forgot . . .
Martha-Baby -
The name Martha and garbage disposal in the same sentence . . . A GREAT MIX!
Josh, if you were earning 100% of your commissions, and were also earning 25% of any of your IC's commissions, you'd be ahead. Just not being affiliated with YTB would put you ahead of the game.
ReplyDeleteWell how do you go about gettting those ICs?
ReplyDeleteOh and remember. If I bring in one person on my power team and they bring in 6 people. All 7 are on my power team. that makes 70% (7 people at 10%)
ReplyDeleteThen lets say those 6 new bring in 6 each. Well now I have 36 new people in my power team or 360% (36 at 10%)
So, that is much better then even the 25% for ICs as my leverage can multiply.
Dude--it's a nice thought, but really they need to make sales. With the average RTA making $102 a year, that 10% is $10.24 per year per RTA. And like you said, with 36--you top out at $368.79 for the year.
ReplyDeleteQuite the bonus!
I would be happy to post my override bookings minus names of travelers for you. How would I do that here?
ReplyDeleteIts pointless to argue. Its all about the recruiting and money gained off your friends and family, more so then it is about the travel.
ReplyDeleteBasically, if they removed the recruiting part, none of you people would care about the travel business at all. There is the difference!!!! Point proven.
Lisa, how did that prove a point? Take a traditional B&M agency that is expecting growth. That agency might go out and hire 10 agents. They will give the agents some and the agency may keep the rest. They just recruited 10 people to build their overall sales. Explain to me how that is different.
ReplyDeleteJohn, If you call correcting Danny's statement that Princess cruise lines did not ever ban YTB from booking with them and asking Danny for the name of the tour company he says YTB is banned from booking with, which he refused to do by the way, that's about as much recruiting as I did.
ReplyDeleteOk, here is my list of comissions from only the 10% override on travel that has already been paid on. Not sure how this will come out but I deleted the names of the travellers.
ReplyDeleteAgain, this is only for travel booked on websites of people in my power team. After looking at the list, I would say that I know about 3% of the people. Again, this is comission at the 10% level that I have already received.
AIR 10% 04/08/2007 $1.00
AIR 10% 04/13/2007 $1.00
AIR 10% 04/21/2007 $1.00
AIR 10% 04/25/2007 $1.00
HOTEL 10% 04/22/2007 $2.87
HOTEL 10% 05/16/2007 $5.20
CAR 10% 06/18/2007 $3.14
AIR+CAR+HOTEL 10% 05/20/2007 $32.58
AIR 10% 07/11/2007 $1.70
AIR 10% 07/10/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 07/07/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 07/05/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 06/28/2007 $1.50
OTHER 10% 04/24/2007 $2.80
HOTEL 10% 05/06/2007 $8.42
AIR 10% 05/16/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 05/16/2007 $1.50
HOTEL 10% 03/12/2007 $10.91
AIR 10% 07/11/2007 $1.50
OTHER 10% 07/27/2007 $15.53
AIR 10% 07/20/2007 $1.50
OTHER 10% 07/11/2007 $10.70
HOTEL 10% 06/12/2007 $11.29
HOTEL 10% 05/24/2007 $38.35
AIR 10% 08/06/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 07/19/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 07/16/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 08/23/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 08/13/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 08/15/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 08/15/2007 $1.00
AIR 10% 08/15/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 08/16/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 06/25/2007 $1.50
HOTEL 10% 08/31/2007 $8.75
AIR 10% 06/20/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 06/13/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 05/31/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 05/26/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 08/16/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 09/28/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 05/22/2007 $1.00
AIR 10% 08/17/2007 $2.00
HOTEL 10% 07/23/2007 $9.18
HOTEL 10% 07/02/2007 $8.55
AIR 10% 08/23/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 09/03/2007 $1.00
AIR 10% 09/15/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 10/16/2007 $1.50
CAR 10% 09/04/2007 $4.40
AIR 10% 09/16/2007 $1.50
OTHER 10% 09/04/2007 $6.71
AIR 10% 09/18/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 09/18/2007 $1.00
CAR 10% 08/24/2007 $9.18
CAR 10% 08/15/2007 $9.18
HOTEL 10% 07/25/2007 $12.91
HOTEL 10% 07/12/2007 $10.82
AIR 10% 09/20/2007 $1.00
HOTEL 10% 06/04/2007 $4.55
AIR 10% 09/26/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 09/27/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 10/02/2007 $2.00
AIR 10% 10/02/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 10/02/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 10/06/2007 $1.00
AIR 10% 10/09/2007 $1.00
AIR 10% 11/10/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 11/11/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 11/11/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 10/12/2007 $1.00
CAR 10% 08/09/2007 $6.76
CAR 10% 08/23/2007 $3.26
AIR+HOTEL 10% 09/20/2007 $22.01
AIR 10% 09/18/2007 $1.00
AIR 10% 09/18/2007 $1.50
HOTEL 10% 09/15/2007 $4.07
HOTEL 10% 09/17/2007 $2.14
HOTEL 10% 09/17/2007 $8.57
HOTEL 10% 09/04/2007 $9.08
AIR 10% 10/17/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 09/20/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 10/28/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 09/20/2007 $1.50
OTHER 10% 09/07/2007 $9.90
AIR 10% 10/29/2007 $150
AIR 10% 12/05/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 11/02/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 12/11/2007 $1.40
AIR 10% 12/11/2007 $2.00
AIR 10% 11/02/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 11/06/2007 $1.50
CAR 10% 07/02/2007 $4.12
AIR 10% 11/07/2007 $1.00
HOTEL 10% 12/06/2007 $11.09
AIR 10% 11/14/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 11/17/2007 $1.00
AIR 10% 10/12/2007 $1.50
HOTEL 10% 10/02/2007 $6.74
HOTEL 10% 09/27/2007 $5.19
AIR+HOTEL 10% 07/31/2007 $16.21
AIR 10% 10/22/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 10/22/2007 $1.00
AIR 10% 11/25/2007 $1.50
CRUISE 10% 11/08/2007 $26.40
HOTEL 10% 08/30/2007 $52.20
HOTEL 10% 09/04/2007 $12.50
CRUISE 10% 10/29/2007 $33.08
AIR+HOTEL 10% 10/14/2007 $19.82
HOTEL 10% 06/20/2007 $11.00
CRUISE 10% 10/13/2007 $27.12
CRUISE 10% 10/13/2007 $30.80
CRUISE 10% 10/13/2007 $34.00
CRUISE 10% 10/13/2007 $30.80
HOTEL 10% 08/17/2007 $11.10
HOTEL 10% 08/30/2007 $32.20
HOTEL 10% 10/29/2007 $2.54
AIR 10% 11/20/2007 $1.50
INSURANCE 10% 10/17/2007 $14.99
CAR 10% 11/12/2007 $2.54
AIR 10% 11/27/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 11/27/2007 $1.50
HOTEL 10% 08/30/2007 $52.20
CAR 10% 11/30/2007 $2.18
CAR 10% 11/30/2007 $3.80
CAR 10% 12/02/2007 $1.81
CRUISE 10% 09/01/2007 $123.15
CRUISE 10% 09/01/2007 $108.11
HOTEL 10% 12/20/2007 $11.91
CRUISE 10% 05/17/2007 $83.44
AIR 10% 11/29/2007 $2.00
AIR 10% 11/29/2007 $1.00
OTHER 10% 12/01/2007 $1.48
AIR 10% 12/14/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 01/08/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 12/15/2007 $1.50
AIR 10% 12/16/2007 $1.00
CAR 10% 09/27/2007 $1.25
HOTEL 10% 11/25/2007 $1.11
HOTEL 10% 10/29/2007 $2.90
HOTEL 10% 09/04/2007 $4.33
CAR 10% 10/02/2007 $1.63
HOTEL 10% 11/27/2007 $0.88
AIR 10% 01/02/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 01/03/2008 $1.00
CAR 10% 01/17/2008 $3.13
CAR 10% 09/29/2007 $2.94
CAR 10% 10/29/2007 $2.69
HOTEL 10% 11/08/2007 $1.82
CAR 10% 12/14/2007 $5.56
HOTEL 10% 01/28/2008 $1.76
AIR 10% 01/28/2008 $1.50
OTHER 10% 01/29/2008 $10.86
AIR 10% 01/29/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 01/29/2008 $1.00
AIR 10% 01/29/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 01/09/2008 $1.50
AIR+CAR+HOTEL 10% 01/18/2008 $13.71
AIR 10% 01/22/2008 $1.50
CAR 10% 01/20/2008 $10.45
HOTEL 10% 01/08/2008 $21.26
AIR+HOTEL 10% 01/31/2008 $32.66
AIR+HOTEL 10% 11/01/2007 $17.92
HOTEL 10% 02/06/2008 $2.31
HOTEL 10% 02/06/2008 $13.55
HOTEL 10% 02/06/2008 $3.05
HOTEL 10% 01/28/2008 $4.48
CRUISE 10% 02/07/2008 $58.52
AIR 10% 02/06/2008 $1.50
CAR 10% 11/16/2007 $2.77
AIR 10% 02/14/2008 $1.50
CRUISE 10% 02/18/2008 $22.16
AIR 10% 02/18/2008 $1.00
AIR 10% 02/18/2008 $1.50
AIR+CAR+HOTEL 10% 02/18/2008 $12.50
AIR 10% 02/19/2008 $1.50
HOTEL 10% 02/19/2008 $17.77
AIR 10% 02/21/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 02/21/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 02/21/2008 $1.50
HOTEL 10% 02/22/2008 $2.24
AIR 10% 02/22/2008 $1.50
AIR+HOTEL 10% 02/22/2008 $12.60
HOTEL 10% 02/25/2008 $1.75
AIR 10% 02/26/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 02/26/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 02/27/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 02/27/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 03/01/2008 $1.50
HOTEL 10% 03/04/2008 $4.29
AIR 10% 03/03/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 03/04/2008 $1.50
CRUISE 10% 03/05/2008 $16.08
AIR 10% 03/06/2008 $1.00
HOTEL 10% 03/07/2008 $10.75
HOTEL 10% 03/07/2008 $11.98
HOTEL 10% 03/07/2008 $6.92
HOTEL 10% 03/10/2008 $1.75
AIR+HOTEL 10% 03/13/2008 $4.98
AIR 10% 03/14/2008 $1.50
HOTEL 10% 03/17/2008 $7.59
OTHER 10% 03/19/2008 $2.90
HOTEL 10% 11/19/2007 $11.10
HOTEL 10% 12/15/2007 $4.67
HOTEL 10% 01/02/2008 $6.75
AIR 10% 02/03/2008 $1.50
HOTEL 10% 01/06/2008 $63.30
AIR 10% 01/14/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 01/30/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 01/22/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 02/05/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 01/15/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 02/04/2008 $1.00
HOTEL 10% 01/23/2008 $2.81
CAR 10% 10/29/2007 $1.16
CAR 10% 10/29/2007 $1.37
AIR 10% 01/21/2008 $1.00
AIR 10% 01/08/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 02/01/2008 $2.00
OTHER 10% 02/12/2008 $1.10
HOTEL 10% 01/30/2008 $1.74
HOTEL 10% 10/16/2007 $26.75
AIR 10% 01/09/2008 $1.50
HOTEL 10% 01/22/2008 $25.62
HOTEL 10% 01/22/2008 $20.62
CAR 10% 01/08/2008 $5.46
HOTEL 10% 03/20/2008 $4.52
AIR 10% 03/20/2008 $1.50
HOTEL 10% 03/22/2008 $3.55
HOTEL 10% 03/22/2008 $2.71
OTHER 10% 03/20/2008 $11.20
AIR 10% 03/24/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 03/24/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 03/24/2008 $1.00
HOTEL 10% 03/26/2008 $15.90
HOTEL 10% 03/29/2008 $11.52
OTHER 10% 03/25/2008 $21.06
AIR 10% 03/30/2008 $1.50
HOTEL 10% 03/27/2008 $2.28
HOTEL 10% 04/01/2008 $7.74
HOTEL 10% 04/01/2008 $2.17
AIR 10% 04/01/2008 $1.50
HOTEL 10% 04/07/2008 $7.73
AIR 10% 04/07/2008 $1.00
HOTEL 10% 04/08/2008 $30.73
CAR 10% 04/07/2008 $1.41
AIR 10% 04/08/2008 $1.50
HOTEL 10% 04/10/2008 $1.75
AIR 10% 04/11/2008 $1.50
HOTEL 10% 04/13/2008 $12.10
CAR 10% 04/11/2008 $8.12
AIR 10% 04/14/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 04/16/2008 $2.00
AIR 10% 04/19/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 04/19/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 04/22/2008 $1.00
AIR 10% 04/22/2008 $1.50
CAR 10% 04/20/2008 $2.25
AIR+HOTEL 10% 04/24/2008 $21.76
AIR+HOTEL 10% 04/24/2008 $7.76
AIR+HOTEL 10% 04/24/2008 $14.80
AIR 10% 04/24/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 04/26/2008 $1.50
AIR+HOTEL 10% 04/30/2008 $15.98
AIR 10% 05/02/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 05/03/2008 $1.50
HOTEL 10% 05/04/2008 $11.15
AIR 10% 05/05/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 05/05/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 05/05/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 05/07/2008 $1.00
OTHER 10% 05/07/2008 $16.06
OTHER 10% 05/07/2008 $2.86
AIR 10% 05/12/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 05/13/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 05/15/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 05/15/2008 $1.50
CRUISE 10% 05/20/2008 $97.57
AIR 10% 05/21/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 05/21/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 05/27/2008 $1.50
HOTEL 10% 05/22/2008 $7.68
HOTEL 10% 05/27/2008 $2.99
AIR 10% 05/28/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 05/29/2008 $1.00
AIR 10% 05/29/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 06/02/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 06/02/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 06/04/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 06/04/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 06/09/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 06/11/2008 $1.00
AIR 10% 06/12/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 06/15/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 06/15/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 06/19/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 06/23/2008 $1.00
AIR 10% 06/23/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 06/23/2008 $1.00
AIR 10% 06/23/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 06/24/2008 $1.00
AIR 10% 06/28/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 06/28/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 06/30/2008 $1.50
AIR 10% 07/08/2008 $1.50
Let me rephrase that, as it's not my intention to offend you. It's just when I see a bunch of $1.00 commissions, compared to the commission checks that come in from my IC's, well, it's kind of difficult to look at.
ReplyDeleteI think YTB talks a good game, but if you compare these earnings to those of a tradition agency I think you'd be surprised. Do you keep 100% of your 10%, or does 40% of that go back to YTB as well?
Which part, making money from other's efforts or the fact that I posted it?
ReplyDeleteNo that is 100% I am not offended if you don't understand. No worries. I will explain.
ReplyDeleteAs you know the airlines don't pay a comission. So the 10% is usually of 10 bucks fee on the airfare. A comission is paid to YTB and 60% goes to the RTA and 10% goes to the power team leader, YTB keeps 30%.
That list again, is the 10% that have already paid to me. So yes, all those one dollar comissions do look silly, I will admit, but I wanted to post my entire log sheet. I don't edit things before I post them. Well I edited out the names of the travellers as it is not my place to post them. I didn't add it up but it is well over 2 grand. Again, for travel booked NOT ON MY SITE. Meaning I didn't do anything. And, I can't post my pending travel overrides as they don't have the comission received yet. But, there are several cruises on there as well for this summer. Again, not booked through my site. As my sales force grows so too will the total amount of overrides.
Josh, a decent home-based part time agent should be able to book at least $500,000 per year. So let's say that they brought in $50,000 per year. And as their host, you were collecting 25% of that. That's much more than you're going to make at $1.00 a piece from your down line. If you've got 7 people on your team, and this is all the revenue they have generated, that's only $285 each. Divide that by 6 months,and that's less than $50 per month. I guess I don't understand why you think it's better to be in an mlm, when traditional agents with ICs earn much more.
ReplyDeleteOMG! Josh you are being taken for a ride. That's is ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteOh and Josh your crack about the pimply face kid umping soccer. My college age son who is not pimply faced does it at $100 a game. Way more than your silly over rides and he doesn't have to be ashamed.
ReplyDeleteMaxine and Kate -
ReplyDeleteWe are not you.
We have no desire to be you.
I am tickled to death that you enjoy sitting behind your desk all day booking people's travel.
That is not for me.
We are not you.
We have no desire to be you.
It is a different model.
You just cannot accept it.
Get over it.
We booked hundreds of millions of dollars in travel corporately as a group of RTAs.
You book $500,000 individually.
Good for you.
More power to you, as they say.
You are not going to change us.
Try your childish insults.
We are here to stay.
You have given us your best shot.
And we keep going and going . . .
A new model is coming.
You will be whining even more.
Posts will have to be deleted once again because you cannot contain yourselves.
We are not you.
We have no desire to be you.
Enjoy your whining and moaning.
It emboldens us more each day.
Onward and upward.
Mix, there were no insults directed towards Josh at all. We're just trying to show him there is a better way. We get that YOU don't want to work, but maybe this guy does.
ReplyDeleteMix, did you just join that new poetry MLM?
ReplyDeleteKholmes,
ReplyDeletebecause I put about 2 hours a week into it.
That is the problem - what most of us object to is your unabashed desire to bastardize the profession we love and put a lot of time and effort into learning, while your only desire is to dabble in it for a couple of hours a week.
ReplyDeleteI have been to many training classes, been on conference calls, been to trade shows, but my regular "work" is only about 2 hours per week.
ReplyDeleteI do it part time with a full time attitude and a deisre to learn.
I have a full time job where I work about 60 hours per week in my career. I neeeded extra money on the side so my wife wouldn't have to go to work. I am sorry that you have a problem with that.
And how would you feel if the reputation of your profession "at your real job" were being tarnished by people who just needed some money on the side?
ReplyDeleteYes, it's always nice to have more money but your list didn't impress me Josh. Your figures were from March of 07 until July of 08. A simple copy/paste/convert to tables and adding the column gives you a total of $2279.24.
ReplyDeleteYes that 2279 is from other people and from me doing nothing. I have about 3 times that in pending and my team continues to grow. The first 6 months of that were from about 5 people, it can keep getting bigger and bigger without me doing anything additional.
ReplyDeleteSo, you woulnd't want 22hundred for doing nothing?
Actually - no offense intended really - but it sounds a little like being a pimp to me.
ReplyDeleteJosh, I'd prefer getting my full commission for sales upfront and a much higher percentage on independent contractors.
ReplyDeleteLittle Bird -
ReplyDeleteRaining on your little parade, huh?
So now we are pimps?
I love the egocentric attitudes of TTAs.
High and Mighty you are.
Get used to it, Little Bird.
We respect what you do.
We just don't want to be you.
And you just cannot help yourselves by seeing us invade your little circle.
No problem.
We will continue what we are doing.
And get bigger and better all the time.
While you whine and fuss about it.
And let us all see your huge ego.
I love free enterprise.
And YTB is here to stay.
Mix---who are you kidding you respect what we do!
ReplyDeleteIf YTB had any respect for the industry they would have "legitimized" itself a long time ago. But they did not. They had no respect and sent hundreds of thousands of people unethically recruiting on ships and resorts. They sold their IATAN number to whoever would pay the fee. You have ZERO respect for this industry so please save your platitudes for someone else.
As to the pimp comment, I am assuming you missed this photo?
http://www.yourtravelbiz.com/images/Biz_Rep_Images/JetSetCruise4.jpg
Sorry Mix - but if it walks, talks and acts like a duck - I'm inclined to call it a duck.
ReplyDeleteWhat amazes me is how people make character claims and state assumed facts (an oxymoron in itself) about YTB and it's founders, yet not one of them have claimed to have ever met the guys personally. People can say whatever they want on a blog and it has nothing to do with the truth. Ever been told that a movie sucked and you took someone's word for it? Down the road you saw the movie and loved it? Great success always meets with great resistance. YTB must be on the right track.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the prices assumed on the price of the franchise, whatever. No one on this blog or any other blog know.
Check out a this video for perspective.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdeWKgoVW9Y
Firemedic---I met Scott at a Founder's Tour
ReplyDeleteI have seen that video and it is well done but as to putting it in to perspective? Not so sure about that. Have Microsoft been in the news about stealing their clients money? Have they been in the news because they are not selling a product? Has Mictosoft been in the news because of the questionable business practices of their founders?
ReplyDeleteYou see, Microsoft sells product.Some of the most popular products in the world. It is the economics of scale and of course there are going to be issues.
YTB does not sell a product other than the "opportunity" and when that goes south, then the innocent bystanders (TTAs) get slapped in the face.
Why? Because YTB has told its hundreds of thousands of people to claim they are travel agents. Gates did not tell his people to tell businesses that they sold secretaries, accountants, professional presenters ,data analysts or computer engineers. They sell software.
ANd here is a novel idea--they support what they sell. So, YTB comparitively sells a little travel and it is only done to stay on the legal side of being a Ponzi Scheme, but what they do sell, they don't support. Call the supplier.
THey don't even support their own people--hence the dramatic drop in recruiting. And God forbid you leave or have a bad word to say, you are wrong you are a quitter.
I am waiting for the day when PJ or Juliette St. John leaves. These are the heroes of YTB right now and everyone bows down to them---what will they say when they move on?
John,
ReplyDeleteYTB does not sell a product? Are you serious? They sold over $416 million dollars worth of travel last year. They went from the 35th seller of travel (per Travel Weekly) to the 26th since last year. YTB had the overall highest percentage of growth of ALL the travel agencies. So how is it that you keep saying that YTB doesn't sell a product? Yes there are two parts to the business but to say that they don't sell a product is just no true. If it were true then you know that they would have been shut down a long time ago.
John people like you only see YTB through a set of glasses that only wants to see the failure of anything outside what the traditional travel business has been. You don't like the business model so it's wrong to you. And that is fine. I am able to admit that YTB still has growing to do but they don't deny it. You choose only to see the failure of YTB and are willing to twist and say anything to help facilitate that.
I have never once been told by the company to claim yo be a travel agent. I only claim to have my own online travel site and that is all I have heard the company say is okay. If others are saying it different then it is not because the company is telling them so. You know that there are bad apples in all professions. I am sure you know of some bad apples among the "traditional" agencies.
What I don't understand is how you are able to be a positive person and be constantly focused on the negative of one particular company. You seem to be on top of anything negative you can find. I don't know if I have seen one positive thing you see with YTB. Seems like if you do you see the positive then you may even have to convince yourself that it's not really true since it doesn't fit your chosen perspective of YTB and it's founders. What I don't see is YTB attacking you and other companies. Especially by name.
Now I don't know much more about you but I have seen others out there that attack YTB in order to draw more focus to their business. Seems like it would really hurt their business if YTB failed because they would have to find something else to focus the negative on. Since YTB is the biggest of all the network travel agencies then that would really cut down on the exposure.
Do you know that there are people out there that still earn $2000 month in YTB and they slam YTB every chance they get too? YTB continues to pay them knowing what this person is saying. They didn't say they would pay this person only if they said nice things about YTB. He earned it so they pay him. Ask Scott about that the next time you meet him.
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