When someone wants information on a topic these days, they usually utilize the Internet and a search engine. Google is a popular one. Yahoo is another one used by many as well.
While many people have subscribed to this blog and many more are just bookmarking it and checking back, we do get a ton of traffic from the search engines. Last week, I was watching the search terms used to find this blog and I thought it was interesting.
For the most part, they are negative terms. People are actually looking for specific bad things, like "is this a pyramid scheme". They are not looking for "is MLM a great opportunity". Both search terms likely would have eventually brought you here, but the list below shows the search terms people used to get here--so there is no influence of the blog. At least at this point.
Take a look at some of the top phrases entered into search engines last week:
- FTC YTB
- Dr. Bob Seligman
- Is Mike The Travel Guy RTA a pyramid scheme
- Ted Lindauer
- Travel MLM
- Fired YTB Lawyer
- CLIA and YTB
- MLM cult
- Opinion about MLM
- YTB and TICO standards
Wow, Seligman is apparently still trying to be verified. People are still very curious about Ted Lindauer and his firing and I suppose his subsequent reconciliation. But a lot of people are wondering if MLM is a pyramid scheme or a cult.
How does this happen? I am unaware of any traditional business model in any industry that garners those terms in their searches. "Is GE a cult?" got one return on Google. YTB got 4,630. "Is the IBM salesperson a pyramid scheme?" got one. YTB got 6,780. "Fired American Express Lawyer" got no responses. YTB got 1.
Very interesting. It seems that it is not only the folks on here that are questioning the validity of MLM in travel. It seems to me that there might be more of a pervasive attitude out there as well. I have said it before, but if I were involved with a travel MLM and had to spend most of my time and effort defending the shady business practices, I would move on. Well, maybe I would put some pressure on management to do something first--one would think that if they were truly vested and interested in the business they would welcome the opportunity to "legitimize".
Not surprising. I have checked out the chart on the right of the blog a few times.
ReplyDeleteGood ppoint on the the amount of time defending their position. Especially when the "word" is so widespread.
It seems that Dr. Bob & Lawyer Ted are the biggies. I've seen their names there several times. The words scam/cult are big runner-ups though. I hope that people are smart and google and look for information on a company before just deciding to join.
ReplyDeleteOh NO!! YTB stock is up to 93 cents. This is terrible. What are we to do? This is NOT good news for the anti-YTB crowd. I'm scared!
ReplyDeleteWatching stocks on a day to day is silly. But, with that said, like Thursday's rise..john says "it;s low volume" Well today as of 11 am it is already almost at its average daily volume.
ReplyDeleteJohn, what concerns me is that YTB has had a lot of obstacles to overcome here in the 50 states where there are more Christians than in any other country in the world.
ReplyDeleteThink about all the shady business practices of RTAs that have been uncovered just in the last 18 months.
I think this is an indication of what it's going to be like in other countries where the Christian faith is not nearly as prominent as it is here in America.
I'm venturing to say there is going to be a steady increase in the discovery of shady business practices by RTAs as YTB expands into more international locations.
Here's the reason for my beliefs. First of all I am a Christian who believes the entire Bible is the Word of God without any errors in it. Here's what the Bible says about the heart of mankind:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah%2017:9;&version=9;51;45;
Add the love of money to the deceitful human heart, and you have a formula for all sorts of evil to be contrived.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy%206:10
;&version=9;51;45;
Only time will tell, but if the history of the conduct of RTAS here America is an indication of what people are capable of worldwide, shouldn't we expect an increase of bad behavior in countries where there are fewer Christians?
Rod -
ReplyDeleteWhat in the world does YTB have to do with Christians? I am really sorry if you have bought into some sort of craziness that it is a "christian" enterprise or that the Tomers are in this only because the are Christians...you poor thing.
What does being a christian and being a bad RTA have to do with anything? I've seen countless "bad" christians, and countless "bad" non-christians. Religion has nothing to do with it. I am a practicing catholic, but I do not shove it down the throats of those who are not. Nor do I judge someone on what religion, race, sexual choices they make. GOD CREATED EVERYONE EQUALLY OF FREE MIND...its what you do with that mind that matters.
ReplyDeleteJohn said, "People are actually looking for specific bad things, like "is this a pyramid scheme"."
ReplyDeleteI always ask people, "What are you thinking about when you ask that question?" Breaking it down, I've found that most people are referring to illegal vs legal. Some are only looking at the pay plan structure, while others have a valid concern for the "structures" legality. I believe most individuals are concerned about the latter. So I would like to offer the following information for those who question whether YTB is an illegal pyramid scheme or not.
After a one year review by the Direct Selling Association, YTB was permitted to join this national trade association of the leading firms that manufacture and distribute goods and services sold directly to consumers. The association was formed in Binghamton, New York in 1910. They have been in operation 90 years longer then YTB! Today, DSA operates from its D.C. headquarters which it shares with the Direct Selling Education Foundation and the secretariat of the World Federation of Direct Selling Associations. DSA provides educational opportunities for direct selling professionals and works with Congress, numerous government agencies, consumer protection organizations and others on behalf of its member companies.
The DSA Code of Ethics speaks to both the consumer and the seller. Pyramid schemes are illegal and companies operating pyramids are not permitted to be members of the DSA.
Compliance with the DSA Code of Ethics is a requirement for membership in the Direct Selling Association. All applicants for membership must complete a one-year pending period during which time the company's business plan is reviewed to ensure compliance with all provisions of the Code. After becoming an active member of the association, companies are required to maintain compliance with the Code as a condition of continuing membership.
Significant is the fact there are only two travel companies that are members of the DSA. They are...Travel Reaction, Brandon, FL, and YTB International, Inc, Wood River, IL. This is extremely powerful considering there are several notable MLM companies that are NOT members of the DSA.
For those in YTB, this is something you will want to examine further. Go to the web site.. DSA..
and print out some of the important highlights I've mentioned above. When the "pyramid question" arises, you will be able to provide a satisfying answer to anyone who asks..."The Question".
olescorekeeper
My goodness! rod if YTB's are poor christian why are you a member?
ReplyDeleteI'm with Lisa on this one. Leave god out of it. Religion neither confirms nor diavows any right or wrong.
the beautiful part about this one John "is MLM a great opportunity" is that if they are searching, they'll now find this blog with why it's not. Woo hoo!! lmao
ReplyDeleteOh crap! This is horrible. YTB stock went up again! Now at 95 cents. Will Tom be right? Two bucks this summer? I'm depressed.
ReplyDeleteThe stock is up, and I will go out on a limb here, "INSIDER TRADING", but then again, we have teachers, that can't spell. Run up the stock people, so Crotch and Company can enjoy it when they sell what they have left.
ReplyDeleteGet excited people!!! YTB almost up to a buck after crashing like nothing ever seen!!! YEAH WOOH! LOL
ReplyDeleteOh YTBSCAM thank goodness your back. I value your profesisonal expertise rearding YTB stock trends. I'm really worried sick. Cant beleive whats happening. Stock is making a comeback? This can't be! What are your recomendations for setting up resistance and support levels?
ReplyDeleteAre we in a bullish market? Whats your opinion.
whats the latest news on YTB progress in Canada since its only about a month old ?
ReplyDeleteOff topic.
ReplyDeleteFor those saying leave God out of it. Good enough. Look at what's happened since America begin that course in the 60's when the Supreme Court forced prayer out of public schools and increasing removal God from the public square ever since. At some point, there's going to be a rude awakening.
ReplyDeleteI'm watching all the signs of the times. Canada's anti-God laws and UK's acceptance of increasing Muslim presence influencing political decisions, etc.
Could be that Iowa's SOT # has more significance than I thought.
Here's that rude awakening coming: Think about this before you say leave God out of it:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2020:22;&version=9;51;45;
If you think people are going to do the right thing without a moral compass, you have got a big surprise in for you.
What about the many RTAs who are posting ads up on the internet falsely representing the travel industry. You don't think this tactic is going to decrease in other countries do you. The greedy RTAs will do whatever they can get away with.
Crikie!! What in the world is happening here? I'm sick. YTB closed up .14. Is this a dream? Somebody please pinch me! I predicted a dooms day drop this week to my YTB reletive. This is so embarassing!
ReplyDeleteLast Trade: 0.97
Trade Time: 3:58PM ET
Change: 0.14 (16.87%)
Rod
ReplyDeleteThe problem is not Christian/non Christian. The problem is YTB hires anyone and everyone, and does nothing to control the masses. THATS THE PROBLEM.
TravelLisa said, "The problem is YTB hires anyone and everyone, and does nothing to control the masses."
ReplyDeleteWell, TL, speaking of "not controling the masses", we have another one of your associate TTA's back in trouble again. Take a look.
Travel Agent Back in Trouble
CRIMINAL CHARGES HAVE FAMILIAR RING
olescorekeeper
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National Foundation for Cancer Research
Ole,
ReplyDeleteAs I do not work for ITS or JM Travel solutions, this has no bearing. I am talking about YTB EMPLOYEE'S...who work for YTB. IF a CWT employee was doing this and I was aware I'd report them, and I know CWT would crack down on it. I cannot control ANOTHER COMPANY'S employees, I however, can control my own. Why can't YTB do the same?
For instance. I sent 3 complaints about posters on CL who were breaking terms of service and posting bogus information to YTB offices, not one person responsed, nobody acknowledged it at all. Why bother with the fascade that they care about what their IC's do, if they really don't, and its all about the mighty dollar in Coach's pockets!
"As I do not work for ITS or JM Travel solutions, this has no bearing. I am talking about YTB EMPLOYEE'S...who work for YTB."
ReplyDeleteFor cryin' out loud Lisa...you're being such a hypocrite.
Get a life would you.
Pleeeeease.
Lisa is correct. YTB cares very little if their terms and conditions are subject to abuse. If it brings in money they are quite happy to look the other way. You YTBers know that this is true and that no one at HQ really cares.
ReplyDeleteSo what if the come ons are as out there and untrue as can be as long as the $$$ keep flowing to coaches pockets. That's one reason why I have no doubt that any other 'promises' YTB HQ makes are subject to change at the drop of a hat. In writing or not.
Being a member of the direct selling assoc doesn't mean jack. It was founded by a bunch of pro-mlmers to give mlms a way to look respectable. Sure they have guidelines for admission, but what organization doesn't?
ReplyDeleteIf you look up the definition of what a pyramid scheme is, you will find YTB and other travel mlms are exactly what is described. Why are we even having this debate?
Instead of coming over here any name calling and bragging about how much you make, why don't one of you mlmers tell us what YOU personally have done to make a positive contribution to the travel industry and to enhance the image of travel agents as a whole? Anyone??
Anonymous said..."Being a member of the direct selling assoc doesn't mean jack. It was founded by a bunch of pro-mlmers to give mlms a way to look respectable.
ReplyDeleteOh really? Anon, you need a real education on the history of the DSA. Read carefully my friend.
History
In 1900 there were slightly less than 93,000 traveling salesman, numbers warranting the formation of a national association - one that would look after the needs of direct selling companies and create an image for direct selling as a respectable profession by making sure ethical business methods were observed.
What is today known as the Direct Selling Association was formed in Binghamton, New York in 1910. At its founding, the association was called the Agents Credit Association. This formation of this group marks the start of the modern-day direct selling era.
The Agents Credit Association had 10 members and functioned primarily in the fields of credit matters and collection of accounts, as its name implies. The original 10 members were:
California Perfume Company (now Avon Products, Inc.) - New York, New York
Freeport Manufacturing - Brooklyn, New York
McLean, Black & Co. - Boston, Massachusetts
Mitchell & Church - Binghamton, New York
Mutual Fabric - Binghamton, New York
National Dress Goods Co. - New York, New York
Queen Fabric - Syracuse, New York
Security Company - Weedsport, New York
Standard Dress - Binghamton, New York
World's Star Knitting - Bay City Michigan
The Agents Credit Association was reorganized in 1914 and re-named the National Association of Agency Companies. For a brief period between 1917 and 1920, the name was changed to the National Association of Agency and Mail Order Companies, but the name was changed back in 1920.
The greatest part of the business of the direct selling association in the first decade was attracting new members. Officials of the NAAC realized that the health of the industry depended to a great extent on a large and active membership.
By 1920, the NAAC had formed a strong enough organization to issue the following proclamation describing its purposes:
To protect against unjust taxation, license fees or other illegal restraint or interference with their business.
Co-operation, promotion and protection of the business interests of our members.
To prevent and discourage misleading advertising and all dishonest practices in the agency and mail order field.
To assist in the enactment and enforcement of laws, which in their operation shall deal justly with the rights of the Agency Houses and consumers.
To promote confidence between the consumers and the Agency Houses in our Association.
To foster and promote good will among our members.
In 1924, the Association established its headquarters in Winona, Minnesota. Shortly thereafter, at the annual meeting of the NAAC in 1925, the Association was again reorganized and renamed the National Association of Direct Selling Companies. The list of active members numbered 80 and, for the first time, an associate membership category was added. This membership category, equivalent to today's supplier members, included companies offering services or merchandise to the direct selling companies.
In 1968, a final reorganization gave the association its current name, the Direct Selling Association, and the headquarters moved to Washington, D.C., where it has remained since.
Today, DSA operates from its D.C. headquarters which it shares with the Direct Selling Education Foundation and the secretariat of the World Federation of Direct Selling Associations. DSA provides educational opportunities for direct selling professionals and works with Congress, numerous government agencies, consumer protection organizations and others on behalf of its member companies.
olescorekeeper
Rod - At times I've felt that you are mentally unstable and now you have confirmed that fact for me. Thank you. I am certain that bringing religion into the focus of this discussion just exemplifies the notion that YTB is a cult and you are a full-fledged member. If the Rev. Tomer told you to drink the Kool-Aid, I am sure you would.
ReplyDeleteCanada is anti-God? That is news to me. UK tolerates Muslims? We all know that different views on religion shouldn't be tolerated by the masses. Off with their heads!
I suggest that you get down on your knees and ask your God if YTB is a scam, if it is good for you, and why has he made you into such a sucker.
Anon further said, "If you look up the definition of what a pyramid scheme is, you will find YTB and other travel mlms are exactly what is described. Why are we even having this debate?"
ReplyDeleteI'm ROTFLMAO! Your just an Anon with ZERO credibility! Now as for the DSA's credibility? I'll side them over you any day pal. After all, do you have 90 plus years of experience in the industry? Didn't think so! lol!!
olescorekeeper
martha said..."Rod - At times I've felt that you are mentally unstable and now you have confirmed that fact for me. Thank you."
ReplyDeleteI'm sure Martha would have probably felt Jesus Christ was unstable too if she lived during his time on earth.
olescorekeeper
You can throw out the notion of YTB being a pyramid scheme. Even John stated that it surely cannot be. YES JOHN DID STATE THAT!!! So drop it!!!
ReplyDeleteWhat separates YTB from other MLM companies is that the upline of YTB actually works with their downline to see that the ones who want to be... are successful. You won't see that with AmWay! YTB even has a new RTA Placement program where a Power Team Leader can take a new RTA he or she signed up and place that person under someone else in his / her downline to help that person build his / her team. Since it's conception, I have utilized it a few times, and it has worked out quite well. In dong so, I may be giving up $50, but I am also helping someone towards success.
Easy Martha! put that axe away.
ReplyDeleteRod, I am a Christian and am very devoted to my faith. Please don't compare YTB to Jesus. Don't compare anyone to Jesus, because we all know that there's absolutely no comparison.
Great job Ole!!!
To add to what Ole said, I'd like to add this bit of info to squash what Anonymous 9:03 PM
Code of Ethics
The cornerstone of the Direct Selling Association's (DSA) commitment to ethical business practices and consumer service is its Code of Ethics. Every member company pledges to abide by the code's standards and procedures as a condition of admission and continuing membership in DSA.
The DSA Code of Ethics speaks to both the consumer and the seller. It ensures that member companies will make no statements or promises that might mislead either consumers or prospective sales people. Pyramid schemes are illegal and companies operating pyramids are not permitted to be members of the DSA.
The DSA Code of Ethics is enforced by an independent code administrator who is not connected with any member company. The code administrator will do everything possible to resolve any complaints to the satisfaction of everyone involved, and has the power to decide on remedies. All member companies have agreed to honor the administrator's decisions.
Also, to answer he question of what I have done to improve the travel industry, I have acquired and retained loyal clients... both who book online and those who come to me for assistance. I have taken many training courses including many offered by CLIA. I do call suppliers directly, and many of them know me by name now. I am always complimented by them, because when I do call them, I have all my needed info in order and am straight to the point when it comes to the vacation needs of my clients. I don't get into the whole "How's the family?" chatter with the suppliers as when I talk, it's strictly business. I did however witness TTAs get all off subject with suppliers and carry n a conversation when they were supposed to be keeping it strictly business and concentrating on my booking needs (before I joined YTB). This was part of the reason for me to decide to book my travel online (again, before YTB).
Most likely, this search list has been generated because of all the TTAs constantly running searches for the topics above. I could search for a topic over and over every single day, and it will make your list.
ReplyDeleteSo if you think I am unstable that probably means you believe you are stable. I have reason to believe the ground you are on is not too stable, but that's because I read the Bible a lot. Take a look at just how stable you really are:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS2fI2p9iVs
Proud, you misunderstood what I said. I didn't compare YTB to Jesus. I am implying that in order for God to prosper YTB financially, he's going to have to bless those countries who have chosen not to turn their backs on God's statutes. Listening to the video I posted, ought to shake some of you skeptics to attention. All of Americans are on unstable ground.
Take the word not out of the 4th sentence in the last paragrah above. That's what I meant to say.
ReplyDeleteOle and Proud, it's pretty obvious that neither of you have much going on with clients. If you did, then you wouldn't be totally consumed with this board and posting so much each day.
ReplyDeleteAs for you, Proud, some of us TTA people enjoy getting to know the suppliers we're speaking to each day, sometimes several times a day. Some of them I consider friends and as we know, a friend will go a long way to help you out if you are in a bind. Of course with the hundreds, if not thousands of bookings and inquiries you do each day from your massive YTB business, I can understand you not having time to have a friendly conversation with a rep while they're looking something up.
Since you brought up the DSA and ethics, I'm still waiting for an explaination of Dr. Seligman and how YTB handled that. I also don't see anyone at YTB enforcing the anti-spam rule which plagues each free site that is overloaded with YTB ads touting free travel, tax deductions, and the likes. Care to address this or will it be bypassed like all important information requested of your company? One more thing is that YTB is a pyramid, an admitted pyramid, and yet DSA says they don't allow it.
Anonymous, if you notice, I am either posting on this blog early in the morning or very late at night. I work with my clients during the day... preferably when they're awake.
ReplyDeleteSorry anonymous, but I actually did get to know quite a few of the suppliers through just plain talk. I am refering to when I am dealing with a client though. When I am on the phone with a supplier I have one thing in mind. that is to get my client's vacation booked. When that is completely done, then I will have a conversation with the supplier. To tell you frankly, the suppliers like my business attitude.
YTB is not a pyramid. Do you want to know what a pyramid is? Take a look at corporate America! Let's take Wal-Mart for instance. Up top, you have the owner making all the big bucks. Then there's a few CEOs under him. Then you have the regional managers, district managers, store managers and then the clerks. Who does al the work? The clerks! Who makes the least amount of money? The clerks! Who will never become the president of Wal-Mart? The clerks!
No offense to those of you who still work at Wal-Mart.
Turn that pyramid upside down and that's what YTB is. You start at the bottom as one, but as you build, you not only work your way to the top, but you also expand your team as you go.
I think you need to check out www.pyramidschemealert.org. It clearly describes what a pyramid scheme is.
ReplyDeleteAny way you slice it, YTB is NOT trying to be a real travel agency. There may be a few of you who are trying to be agents, but you'll never get there with YTB
First of all anonymous, a real pyramis scheme involves people investing all sorts of money into it... meanwhile it doesn't even supply a viable product. There's no home office. It's just an idea that people buy into.
ReplyDeleteWith YTB, there is absolutely NO COST to you to be a part of the marketing side, and yet the rewards can be great! Get this... WE ACTUALLY GET PAID!!!
Now, on the other side of the business is TRAVEL. Yes, there is a purchase required to do this, but guess what??? When we sell travel, WE GET PAID!!!
The key identifiers of a pyramid scheme include the following:
ReplyDeleteA highly excited sales pitch.
A reassurance that it is not, in fact, a pyramid scheme, possibly with a false account of what a pyramid scheme is. CHECK!
Vaguely phrased promises of limitless income potential. CHECK!
An income stream that chiefly depends on the commissions earned by enrolling new members or the purchase by members of products for their own use rather than sales to customers who are not participants in the scheme. CHECK!
A tendency for only the early investors/joiners to make any real income. CHECK!
Assurances that it is perfectly legal to participate. CHECK!
The insistence they are not here to pressure you but merely to guide you. CHECK! Oh and please pass the kool-aid!
The idea that there are no bosses, only coaches and mentors. CHECK!
The key distinction between these schemes and legitimate MLM businesses is that in the latter cases a meaningful income can be earned solely from the sales of the associated product or service to customers who are not themselves enrolled in the scheme. CHECK!
The FTC also warns that the practice of getting commissions from recruiting new members is outlawed in most states as "pyramiding".[6] However, the absence of payment for recruiting does not mean that an MLM is not a cover for a pyramid scheme. The distinguishing characteristic is whether the money in the scheme comes primarily from the participants themselves (pyramid scheme) or from sales of products or services to customers who are not participants in the scheme (legitimate MLM).
Proud to be YTB said, "Great job Ole!!!"
ReplyDeleteThanks Proud!
I've come to the conclusion that no matter what is said, or from what source it comes from, there is no convincing the pinhead anon's that YTB is not a pyramid scheme. 30 years down the road, they'll continue to make the same old argument. They prefer being blinded by the light! To bad...so sad.
olescorekeeper
I agree Ole. It is sad. Even John agreed that YTB sn't a Pyramid Scheme... and he created this blog. Why these anons keep insisting it is... is beyond belief. 30 years from now, when someone says "brick and mortar", someone else is going to reply, "Brick and what???"
ReplyDeleteThey don't realize that there really isn't a shift back to brick and mortar. It is us who are putting agents back into the travel industry... namely US. We have put a face... or many faces to internet travel. People can either book directly online, or come to us for assistance. The best part is that they don't have to pay an agent fee. My friends, family, old co-workers and even old clients all book their travel through me. Why? It's simple. They know me. I am also picking up new clients, because their friends and families in other cities and states are also booking through me. Some of them aren't, but that's because they joined the business after seeing what I've got. I'm proud to say that all of them are quite successful as well.
Proud -
ReplyDeleteI don't knowwhat planet you live on - I have more and more clients every week - the buesiness has grown exponentially. And whyis tht? Because it's a Brick and Mortar. What you all fail to understand and never address no matter how many times it's been posted here - almost every single B&M Travel Agency out there has a website. I get walk-ins, people who have looked up the phone number on-lne, and refeerral/requests that come directly from the website. Ours, like many (perhaps most) Agencies also has a booking engine for air, tours, and cruises. We get some from that, but most people who find us (they google the locale and travel agent) will look at that and then send through a referral/request instead. So you want to listen to the whole "B&M is doomed thing" while what you don't understand is that most new clients find TAs at B&Ms via the internet. You're not threat to the business, you are only a threat to the public perception of the the integrity, professionalism, and experience of the profession. Sure, we'd always like more business, but at the moment we are almost too busy - and it's been that way pretty non-stop since 2003.....
Proud said, "30 years from now, when someone says "brick and mortar", someone else is going to reply, "Brick and what???"
ReplyDeleteNow, that's downright funny! lol!
olescorekeeper
Anon said, "Sure, we'd always like more business, but at the moment we are almost too busy - and it's been that way pretty non-stop since 2003....."
ReplyDeleteAnd we are here to help Anon. YTB sales are expected to exceed $1,000,000,000 this year, surpassing the total travel sold in the Company's first seven years of business!
olescorekeeper
Have they even posted 2007 total numbers yet? Did I miss it? Or is the back office still working on that. Why is it so hard to get final TRAVEL SALES numbers. My office could get those numbers in about 10 minutes. Your all about the "internet" and get with the times BS, but your back office is lacking on reporting no?
ReplyDeleteAnon, I'm from planet Earth. Welcome!
ReplyDeleteI'm glad that your business is still doing good. We don't have to be enemies here. After all, we both are in the travel industry and we both have clients... therefore generating more money for the travel industry.
You are in the website business, not travel. If I remember correctly, you're the one who expressed shock at the idea of a one cruise booking (one cabin) have a "comma" in the commission check. You know very little.
ReplyDelete"Anon said, "Sure, we'd always like more business, but at the moment we are almost too busy - and it's been that way pretty non-stop since 2003....."
And we are here to help Anon. YTB sales are expected to exceed $1,000,000,000 this year, surpassing the total travel sold in the Company's first seven years of business!
olescorekeeper"
We don't need help from inexperienced order-takers - if we were to need help, it would be from Agents with at least 10 years experience with a wealth of knowledge of Vendors and destinations, as well as people with an ethos - not just egos.
Anon said, "We don't need help from inexperienced order-takers.."
ReplyDeleteOh, you misunderstood Anon. You and TravelLisa ARE the experienced "order-takers". I've maintained that (even though TL doesn't like the reference) all along. I'm just helping to take the load off you TTA's by pointing clients to my booking engine who already book with Expedia and the like.
Actually, I'm not an order taker at all. I do not normally do reservations in my office. I assist client setup for our online booking product for corporate travellers. I also do training on the product, GDS's, office procedure for agents and clients.
ReplyDeleteWhen and if I am needed I assist. And I honestly do not care about the title. I had no qualms about being a true TRAVEL AGENT..I am proud of what I do, unlike the fakes that proclaim to be something they are clearly not.
But thanks for all your support and great assistance pointing and clicking there Ole. :P Great job. Don't strain yourself.
TL said, "But thanks for all your support and great assistance pointing and clicking there Ole. :P Great job. Don't strain yourself."
ReplyDeleteOK TravelLisa, ex-order taker. I misunderstood and now I have been corrected. No strain..glad to help.
BTW TL, are you sticking your tongue out at me..or smoking a pipe? :P I'm not sure what it means.
olescorekeeper
Ole -
ReplyDeleteYou are an idiot - a booking-engine is nothing but an "order-taker" - and by doing all/most your business that way, you are nothing but one yourself.
You still do not address the above-poster's comments about almost all B&Ms also having websites and booking engines? Why? Is it that it flies in the face of what Coach has told you? Is it that you believe it is not true? Or is it a threat to your silly belief system about the travel industry?
Traditional Agents who are still in business are the one who are/were the very best in the business to begin with. Someone else posted somewhere here that s/he (I really don't know) has found the internet to be nothing but helpful to his/her B&M business but you have all ignored that as well, why?
Anon said,"Ole - You are an idiot - a booking-engine is nothing but an "order-taker" - and by doing all/most your business that way, you are nothing but one yourself."
ReplyDeleteWrong Anon. I have an example I hope you can follow. It's not difficult to comprehend.
If you sell food behind the counter at McDonalds, you ARE an "order-taker". If you own a vending machine, where folks serve themselves, you are NOT an "order-taker". Capiche?
"You still do not address the above-poster's comments about almost all B&Ms also having websites and booking engines? Why?"
I guess it was made by you? So here it is again.
What you all fail to understand and never address no matter how many times it's been posted here - almost every single B&M Travel Agency out there has a website.
Very nice! Acknowledged.
"Is it that it flies in the face of what Coach has told you? Is it that you believe it is not true? Or is it a threat to your silly belief system about the travel industry?"
No..no and no.
"Traditional Agents who are still in business are the one who are/were the very best in the business to begin with."
Only when you need "specialty" travel. I quit using TTA's years before YTB. I've never gone back! In fact, over 80% of travelers book on line and don't even need to talk with a TA. They are not going to pay your $30 to $100 service fee for a silly airline ticket.
"Someone else posted somewhere here that s/he (I really don't know) has found the internet to be nothing but helpful to his/her B&M business but you have all ignored that as well, why?"
Not me Anon. I have recommended that the B&M agency's, still around that are not on line, should join YTB to capture some of those 80 percenters that book on line. If your clients come to you for "specialty" travel, why not ask them to book their other travel on line with you?
olescorekeeper
But that 80% number is wrong. Tied into that number are the bookings that TRAVEL AGENTS do online for their clients as well.
ReplyDeleteI do all my clients mileage tickets online for them, I book WN for my clients..not thru a GDS, same for FL. I also book several European carriers online. So therefore I am part of that so called 80%..no?
If you were really in the travel industry and had taken the time to read ASTA's smart brief today, you would have seen two articles. One talked about how some do-it-yourself bookers were screwed because their cruise was canceled, and they had no agent to help them. The other showed a study that reflected an average savings on airline tickets of $56 dollars when using an agent rather than doing it yourself.
ReplyDeleteOh, but wait. It was just ASTA saying it, not the good lord Tomer, so it must not be true right??
By reading the posts from mlmers here, it's very clear that you have no clue what it takes to be in this industry.
If you are in YTB you are in no way, shape, or form in the travel industry, nor are you doing anything to make a positive contribution to this industy. Please take your whining, kool-aid drinking, pyramid scheming selves somewhere else!
I would like to see Proud post who he is, the URL to his website, and document his earnings. I'm sorry, but I simply don't believe he is able to sustain his family on commissions from travel bookings through YTB. If he had a substantial amount of clients, he would not be settling for a lousy 60%. Why would you, Proud, be calling suppliers? I thought the YTB booking engine was superior to phone bookings.
ReplyDeleteWant to support a good cause
ReplyDeletewww.millianfoundation.org click on travel...
Thanks Dog Whisperer...
Proud makes his money from selling websites, not selling travel. If he goes direct to the supplier, using his very own clia number, he no doubt bypasses YTB like any sane travel agent would. Oops, Proud is an RTA not a TA so the 'sane' does not count. That's why 90% of YTBers fail to make a profit.
ReplyDeleteMartha,
ReplyDeleteWho the hell are you to request someone to post there income? You are a piece of work. Who cares who makes what? If making money with YTB is in selling sites and this is the way he makes a living, who are you or anyone else to say how wrong it is, when it is obviously is legal or they would have been shut down a long time ago?
Legal and ethical are not always the same.
ReplyDeleteYTB own documents clearly state that over 80% of their members made ZERO income last year, but still handed their $499 plus $50 per month over to their "Coach". Is it illegal? No.
Is it ethical? No.
Sure you could make the argument that YTB is legal. Heck they're even publicly traded. But does that mean that they're not dirty?
Some people do make money in an mlm, but those people are few and far between. I am just stunned at the number of people who will defend YTB to the death, but yet they have never made a single dime.
What does that say about you???
Sam Peterson said...
ReplyDeleteMartha,
Who the hell are you to request someone to post there income? You are a piece of work. Who cares who makes what? If making money with YTB is in selling sites and this is the way he makes a living, who are you or anyone else to say how wrong it is, when it is obviously is legal or they would have been shut down a long time ago?
I asked because if you've read his posts, he BRAGS about how much he makes and how many clients he has. He claims he makes a lot of money from booking clients. Real travel, not just websites. That is why I have the right, and you're correct that I am a piece of work. A fine piece of work that is ethical. Either you're a naive dolt, or just a dolt, but there are many companies that are operating illegally and have yet to be shut down. Remember Enron and all the savings and loan companies? Give it time and YTB will be gone before long.
Martha said, "Give it time and YTB will be gone before long."
ReplyDeleteCommon old girl, can you be more specific?
Funny how anti-YTBers, like Martha, come up with the,"YTB will be gone before long", predictions. lol!
When YTB started out, the naysayers gave them 6 months. Oh..but when the time expired, they changed it to, "I'll give them 1 year and their gone". Well, one year came and went. Then it turned into 2 years. Just too funny!
So Martha, YTB is in it's 8th year. How long do they have to go? Try not to make a fool out of yourself like the rest of your peers have. ;>)
olescorekeeper
Martha, I would not call you a fine piece of art or aything else, someone who is so great does not talk about other people or call them names. You are so tacky.
ReplyDeleteIf you truly want to sell travel and make some decent money there are many host agencies out there who will train you and take you on. The key here is the word WORK. Many of those involved in the MLM travel mode don't want to actually do any work. They are lazy. They think they can direct someone to a website and voila they will be rich. They believe the hype because they have either a low self esteem or want to take the easy way out.
ReplyDeleteYTB preys on those with zero self esteem and a take the easy way out mentality. Hate to disappoint all you RTA's but the travel business is hard work if you want to make any decent money. There is no short cuts. And directing people to your website does not make you a travel agent.
Is MLM and travel a good mix? No. And YTB is not going to make you rich either. Maybe when you RTA's are scrounging around in the couch looking for a dime to pay your bills will you figure it out.
Ole - I cannot predict exactly when, but when it does, please send me a box of candy and tell me I was right. With the word spreading about YTB, the state of YTB's affairs, all the scandals, the stock decline, and the fact that most people don't make a dime from YTB, especially the newbies (except for Sue Walsh), I'm "guessing" that their days are numbered. I've been wrong before, but I don't think so in this case. You can only sell so many websites and the market is saturated with them now. There is one lady that spams Craigslist in my city each day. I sent her an email and asked her if she has any response from her posts. Her reply was, "No, and I'm disappointed. I was told I would make hundreds of dollars a week with my website. I haven't sold anything yet." She has been on Craigslist every day for over a month. Those are the type of people I feel bad for.
ReplyDeleteBefore the YTB people dump on me about the stock price and decline, I'm aware that it is going up right now. It's a far cry from where it was one year ago, so I still wouldn't say it's rebounding. It would rebound when it reaches $9.50 within a year.
Anonymous said: Martha, I would not call you a fine piece of art or aything else, someone who is so great does not talk about other people or call them names. You are so tacky.
Isn't that calling the kettle black? I guess you've never read any of Proud's statements. I'm justified and since I asked the question of him, he has suddenly disappeared which is typical of a coward. I would like to know his name, see his website, and tell us how much he makes from bookings only. I don't think that is too much to ask from someone that flaunts his worth and amount of clients. Do you? Just because he says it, it doesn't make it true.
martha said...
ReplyDelete"Ole - I cannot predict exactly when, but when it does, please send me a box of candy and tell me I was right."
Sure Martha. Just give me the name and address of your future caregiver. It's going to be a l-o-n-g wait my dear. BTW, I'll make sure there are no caramels or chews and only soft creams in that box of candy.
"You can only sell so many websites and the market is saturated with them now."
Martha, Martha, Martha. Do you not realize YTB is going international? Even so 140,000 sites is a drop in the bucket. California has 33 million people and that's just one state. Saturated? Your funny! lol!
"There is one lady that spams Craigslist in my city each day. I sent her an email and asked her if she has any response from her posts. Her reply was, "No, and I'm disappointed. I was told I would make hundreds of dollars a week with my website. I haven't sold anything yet." She has been on Craigslist every day for over a month. Those are the type of people I feel bad for."
I'm sure you do. And Craigslist?..it ain't going to do anything for her. Either does handing out business cards. People don't respond to that type of marketing. YTB sold over $550 billion dollars of travel last year. Just wait until we have 1 million sites! Anyway, keep smiling Martha and enjoy those caramels and chews while you can.
olescorekeeper
Traveling? Why pay a travel agent $30 to $100 more in fees for that airline ticket when you can go on-line and book it yourself and help fight cancer too! Click on this link...
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Ole - I'm sorry, but according to YTB's financial, they didn't sell close to that amount in travel. Travel is not websites, flowers, cars, training, or montly fees.
ReplyDeleteInternational? I think Canada may put the skids on YTB.
If Craigslist and handing out business cards can't bring in the business, then how is a YTB person supposed to put the word out? How do most RTAs get clients? I have never seen a paid advertisment from a RTA.
Why do I have a suspicion that you're (spelled correctly BTW) Tom Coleman or his alter ego? Too funny! LOL!
YTB sold over $550 billion dollars of travel last year. Just wait until we have 1 million sites! Anyway, keep smiling Martha and enjoy those caramels and chews while you can.
ReplyDeleteolescorekeeper
Ole is getting his "B" words and his "M" words confused again. This is very difficult for many in YTB--it is very similar to Proud and his confusion between "Sales" and "Commission".
The words are tossed out at random according to the gullibility of the person they are talking to....talking to someone with half a brain or more they will use sales and million. Less than half a brain and they try and fool them that it is commission and billions.
Someone without a clue will be told that YTB sells 500 BILLION in travel and that they earned $30,000 in commission selling travel.
Someone with a clue will be told that 140K people collectively sold $500 MILLION and a top producer had $30,000 in sales.'
See the diff?
"Ole is getting his "B" words and his "M" words confused again."
ReplyDeleteLighten up Insider. Gee whiz, so I made a typo. The Old Scorekeeper only guarantees accuracy 98% of the time. lol!
olescorekeeper
Just Picture It Now
Ole - At least you will admit your errors when the majority of YTB people won't or can't.
ReplyDeleteWhy did you have to put Doug's link under your name today? I just read his blog and now my screen is splattered with MLM vomit. His self-serving nature is a cry for help and the entry today was an embarrassing read. He sounds like a walking advertisement for self-help books and seminars with a promotion of MLM schemes to top it all off.
Doug said, "Here’s the thing. I told myself I was going to let this all go. I told YOU I was going to let this all go. But the reality of the situation was John Frenaye and this blog of his was still swirling around in my head. It’s like a bad allergy or something, I just couldn’t shake it and I didn’t know why."
Do you think those voices swirling around could be his conscience? If YTB can screw someone up that much, it's just sad.
Actually, I think YTB is reporting just around $35million in travel sales for 2007....
ReplyDelete"YTB estimates $550 million in verifiable sales in 2007 and $226 million in 2006."
ReplyDeleteTravel Trade
Travel Trade and TW have both stated that the $226 million figure last year was a misrepresentation - it included all it's monthly fees, entry fees, training fees, and everyting else it sells in addition to actual sale of travel - the number for travel sales was significantly lower. TW also stated that this was a self-reported number - they will investigate much more closely for future Power Lists.
ReplyDeleteThe dollar amount of travel sales was much closer to $30 million according to YTB's own SEC filings.
Are you saying that YTB told the SEC one thing and travel publications another? Gee, I wonder which number is closest to the real deal?
ReplyDeleteI suspect they're both wrong - i suspect they've had real problems with their accounting systems all along ....
ReplyDelete