The other day, I had a post about an unsolicited email to a party. My point was that it was all about recruiting and not about travel. One of our regular readers made the following comment in an attempt to show the truth:
XXXX XX XX XXX said...
Wow! We're back on this again??? John has absolutely nothing more to find that's anti-YTB, so he's once again picking on an invite???
Well, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with this invite. The person did mention at the bottom:
"If you don't want to be my partner then be my Customer
For all YOUR Travel needs go to: http://ytbtravel.com/JakePenaTravel
Email: JakePenaTravel@verizon.net"
All the info was clearly trye. He did not say that you will tax deduct all your vacations 100%. He said ALMOST 100%! There's a big difference, but you fail to see that! If you take a family vacation, and YOU engage some work into it, then YOU can tax deduct YOUR part of the vacation.
Why am I even going over this again? John, you are going around in circles here... LOL!!!
BTW... invitations do not have to be approved by YTB. The presentation used does! There's another big difference there!
Now this poster is known to have made glaring errors in the past and has clearly demonstrated a decided lack of knowledge about the travel industry in general. If I was a betting man, I would venture to say he is very well versed on MLM and the concept of saying whatever you have to say to close the deal.
He was very clear in telling me I was wrong. So, rather than get into another argument; why not judge for yourselves?. The email was sent unsolicited. It was clearly designed to entice your participation in the "opportunity"...recruiting.
I would like to quote from a YTB policy that was established in April 2006:
YourTravelBiz.com does not support or condone the use of Unsolicited Bulk Email (spam) to solicit prospects for any YTB business. Proposed email materials must be approved by the legal department before use.If you scroll down the page to almost the bottom you will see the policy. So now I ask you, who was wrong?
This form may be downloaded from the Download link at the top of your Back Office page. To register, simply print the form, read and agree to the Terms and Conditions, sign and fax back to 618-659-9591. You will then be directed to submit your proposed email materials to legalsupport@ytb.com for approval.
If we should receive a complaint which proves a violation of this Spam Policy has occurred, the offending representative may be subject to termination.
UPDATE: This post was started several days ago, and when this was pointed out to the original commenter, he or she replied:
Then go report it to YTB John... if you feel so strongly about it.Well, it is not my job to police the YTB RTAs emails--that belongs to YTB and apparently that falls very low on the priority list. Secondly, if 140,000 RTAs and 303,000 Reps have been informed that the mere possession of an email address is grounds for solicitation, I think that at some point they are in for a rude awakening.
How do you know it was in first contact? How did the RTA/REP get the e-mail address to send it to? Evidently, the person gave it to him/her. This gives permission to the RTA/REP to send this information.
You are so full of it John!
Again, John is proven WRONG!!!
John,
ReplyDeleteFor a change you are actually correct in everything you posted here. But, here is your problem.....in your attempt to discredit a poster on your blog who no one REALLY knows who that poster is...you have actually done a service to YTB but letting everyone know that the company has not only policies in place, but good ones to try to eliminate the type of problems that TTAs have with YTB.
"more bum info from a director"???????
ReplyDeleteForgive me JOhn, but where is the proof that proud is a director. If he is then his comments that you quoted are shameful. But, if he isn't OR you can't prove it, then once again you discredited your argument.
This looks like a "cover our ass" disclaimer. Who's job is it at YTB to review these emails before they get sent out? Is there anyone here with YTB that has ever sent in a recruiting email to get it approved before it goes out? They would have to have 1 person just to police Earl.
ReplyDeleteWhile they may have a policy in place, you'll have a hard time making the argument that they are actually enforcing it. As long as they are raking in enough to cover the payments on the shiny new plane, they're not going to put a stop to stuff like this. There are Utube Videos, emails, websites, and meetings everyday with outragous earnings claims that can never be met, and no one is putting a stop to it. The fact that they have thousands of people who give them $50 per month that have never sold a thing says much more than any of their messages ever could.
There has been some noise over at the FTC about lowering the business opportunity amount to $100 in order to stop all this madness. Let's just hope it goes through!
The comment came from a person who has insisted time and time again that he is a Level 1 Director in Florida. True, he has never been brave enough to disclose his website or his name or any of the presentations that he does. But the way he is crowing about it, I believe him to be a director. If you know otherwise, please let us know.
ReplyDeleteYTB can easily police this by having set recruiting scripts. Create a thousand of them for the RTAs and Reps to use. Upload the mailing list to YTB and then YTB sends them from their servers with the RTA/Rep info. A LOT of companies do this.
But the issue there is that then YTB would be liable for the Can Spam infractions...but they woudl control the message. Might be a way to legitimize....dontcha think?
John, this is such a weak blog today. I was expecting much more good stuff on the evil empire of YTB. Do you think they'll hang Coach when the forces seize him and put him before his travel peers for trial? Do you think the email was sent to you just to tick you off?
ReplyDeleteI really thought you could spend your $50, $75, $100, etc. per hour value on your time investigating a topic with more substance. Oh well - tune in tomorrow.
This comment is inteded to be silly and humerous based on the topic of the day. "Lord forgive me when I whine."
John, how do you get someone's e-mail address? Here's how I get it. that person gives it to me. I ask them if they want both... to receive the DEALS & STEALS newsletter, and more info about YTB and the business opportunity. If thay say yes to both, I send them both. If they say yes to one, i give them info about the company plus a meeting location. In no way shape or form is this "SPAM".
ReplyDeleteChances are, this RTA/REP talked with this person beforehand and in doing so received this person's e-mail address... given freely by this person. The "first contact" clause has been fullfilled.
Here's the rest of the guidelines you so conveniently left out:
1. yourTravelBiz.com strictly prohibits our Independent Marketing Representatives from sending out any emails to non members of yourTravelBiz.com that include any references to the yourTravelBiz.com by name any references to YTB Affiliates by name, references to links to web pages that reference yourTravelBiz.com or direct links to any yourTravelBiz.com Web Site or to our company's domains or URLS, to include yourTravelBiz.com,YTBnet.com or YTBtravel.com, unless one of the following conditions exist:
The person contacted, first contacted the yourTravelBiz.com Representative, or;
The person contacted has provided the yourTravelBiz.com Representative with permission to contact them, either by webform, email or other written communication.
Note: This provision includes links to websites provided in signature files attached to your outgoing emails and to emails containing redirect links which lead/redirect to any yourTravelBiz.com, YTBnet.com or YTBtravel.com website. Example: The url in your email is www.link.com and when someone clicks on that link they 'appear' to be taken to www.link.com, but the page then switches to www.ytbnet.com/ youruserid.html (The www.link.com page never shows on the screen).
2. yourTravelBiz.com strictly prohibits our Representatives from posting to any newsgroup, bulletin board, or major domo list, etc., which may result in an email being generated linking to any yourTravelBiz.com, YTBnet.com or YTBtravel.com URL. Any complaint received which includes a copy of an email that has a reference or link to any yourTravelBiz.com domain or URL, (to includeYTBnet.com or YTBtravel.com), will be forwarded to the Representative which sent the email in order for them to provide us with evidence of "first contact" or "permission to contact". Therefore, each Representative must keep a copy of emails sent to you as a "first contact" or providing you with "permission to contact".
So, again I say that you are totally WRONG John!
Now go start another topic, because you have really shamed yourself with this one.
LOL!!!
BTW... because of #2 on this list, I choose to remain to be known just as "Proud to be YTB"
ReplyDeleteProud...so how do you explain Craigslist?
ReplyDelete2. yourTravelBiz.com strictly prohibits our Representatives from posting to any newsgroup, bulletin board, or major domo list, etc., which may result in an email being generated linking to any yourTravelBiz.com, YTBnet.com or YTBtravel.com URL. Any complaint received which includes a copy of an email that has a reference or link to any yourTravelBiz.com domain or URL, (to includeYTBnet.com or YTBtravel.com), will be forwarded to the Representative which sent the email in order for them to provide us with evidence of "first contact" or "permission to contact". Therefore, each Representative must keep a copy of emails sent to you as a "first contact" or providing you with "permission to contact".
YTB only enforces their policies if it is convenient for them to do so. They are unabke to control their RTA and because there are so many they dom't bother. Hey, if it brings more recruiting money in than that is good, right?
ReplyDeletespam@uce.gov
Yes how do you explain Craigslist, because there are ALOT on the travel site that blatently post their information when in fact CL doesn't permit it. They are removed for spam daily. Or the ones that post in the travel/business sections of CL...this is not permitted? Hmmm has anyone told them, or did they not read the rules?. There'd be alot of people to report if that were the case.
ReplyDelete"Chances are, this RTA/REP talked with this person beforehand and in doing so received this person's e-mail address... given freely by this person. The "first contact" clause has been fullfilled."
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure that this was unsolicited... ;-)
It's also easy to get someone's e-mail address without asking them for it. It's called buying a list of address, just as telemarketers used to buy lists of phone numbers.
ReplyDeleteTherefore, each Representative must keep a copy of emails sent to you as a "first contact" or providing you with "permission to contact".
ReplyDeleteI find this line in Number 2 in Prouds above post to be interesting. Basically, what it is saying is that the person who is contacted by the YTBer must have contacted the YTB person first BY E-MAIL, not just by giving them their e-mail address.
In other words, according to the above stated rules posted by Proud, just because I write down my e-mail address on a piece of paper and give it to a YTBer DOES NOT give them permission to contact me with their YTB crap. They may only contact me with that spam if I contact them via e-mail first.
If you read what Proud posted above closely, it also states that the person being contacted must "provided the yourTravelBiz.com Representative with permission to contact them, either by webform, email or other written communication." Just writing down your e-mail address does not give implicit permission to send anything, just like giving someone my telephone number gives them permission to call me to try to sell me something.
"Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteJohn,
For a change you are actually correct in everything you posted here. But, here is your problem.....in your attempt to discredit a poster on your blog who no one REALLY knows who that poster is...you have actually done a service to YTB but letting everyone know that the company has not only policies in place, but good ones to try to eliminate the type of problems that TTAs have with YTB."
I think it actually illustrates that though YTB has these rules, the RTAs/REPs are out of control and YTB is doing little or nothing to get a handle on them.
Proud - you are assuming that the sender was given the e-mail address - always assuming. There are hundreds of businesses out there that sell lists, that sell software that assist you in "mining" addresses from the internet, etc. So it turns out that you know as little about electronic marketing as you do about travel....
sdmartin -
ReplyDeleteI agree - another "snooze" posting. John is running out of material.
Not really. If indeed these "rogue" RTA's are posting on newsgroups, or spamming people, they are indeed breaking the rules. Just one person on CL one day posted about 10 times for his website, which is against CL rules. Does YTB not care what its agents are doing? Obviously they put rules in place which are not being followed or enforced.
ReplyDeleteIf someone gives a YTBer their e-mail address, it is on a paper that clearly states that it's about YTB. I save the papers from every single contact I've met and talked to. The actual meeting of the person is also "first contact".
ReplyDeleteTo anonymous, you say that I am assuming that this person was given this e-mail address by a contact. John is assuming that this person didn't.
john, if you feel that this is a case of spamming, then why don't you go and report this person to YTB HQ? I'm sure nothing would make you more happy than to see one RTA removed from the equation. I'm sure it won't stick, because this RTA most likely has the contact info of this person, because it was given to him / her by said person.
Also,
ReplyDeletefor those that see spam type stuff on Craigslist, go ahead and report it. I am in YTB and frankly, I would prefer if EVERYONE followed the rules. After all it is the rogue few that got us in the IATAn mess and the rogue few that ultimately misrepresented on FAM trips that led to the RCL issue as well.
Not an excuse, but for me with the rules in place that is good. YTB does act, if they receive a complaint. In fact, I complained about someone in my downline, that I DIRECTLY sponsored and they were removed.
It's YTB's job to uphold their standards. I personally don't think HQ gives a darn whos doing what as long as everyone sends in the $$$. Consequently YTB has no standards and should get the heck out of selling travel altogether. You can't control your members and YTB will suffer for it. Yay!!!
ReplyDelete"you say that I am assuming that this person was given this e-mail address by a contact. John is assuming that this person didn't."
ReplyDeleteYou're not listening... John is not assuming...
yes, John is assuming.
ReplyDeletejohn, you have the info for this RTA. go ahead and contact HQ and have him removed if it'll make you happy.
ReplyDeleteWhen I get the e-mail address from someone, I ask them 2 questions.
ReplyDelete1. Would you like our Steals & Deals newsletter?
2. Would you like more information about the business opportunity?
Depending on their answer, I send them 1 or both.
We know Proud you do it all by the book but are too scared to let anyone see your little pitch just in case. You are the Prince of YTB and we all bow to your deity and kiss your feet.
ReplyDeleteI did not assume anything when I posted that email. It was sent UNSOLICITED. That is a fact. Where he got the email address from is anyone's guess, but as one of the YTBers said previously (oh look it was you!!!) that as long as he has the email address he can solicit. Buzzz. Wrong again!
So there are no assumptions here your highness.
As for reporting it, I think it probably has a better effect if left here. It will go to prove my point that YTB does not care. Several YTBers say I am right. You say I am wrong. Well, how about the 4 people from YTB Headquarters that have read this blog today--what do they have to say?
I imagine that their silence on the matter will likely imply approval.
And what 4 people from HQ read your blog?
ReplyDeleteMaybe they are reading it and laughing at your futile attempts to bring down YTB.
John said... "Where he got the email address from is anyone's guess,"
So if you don't know, then how could you post a topic claiming that it is a solicitation??? john, you make absolutely no sense with this at all. First you say that you know it is for a fact. Then you turn around and say that you are not sure.
Folks, I think John is very confused here, for he has been caught in a LIE!!!
This means one thing...
Once again, John... the TTA Idol is WRONG!!! I'm sure Simon on American Idol would agree.
I could not tell you who reads the blog, just that there were 4 log ins from YTB today. You call them and ask them.
ReplyDeleteOnce again, literacy seems to have escaped you. The email address to which it was sent was NOT given to him--period. The email address is out there. Where he found it I do not know.
See, if Traverus wanted to spam him, they now have his email address. Did that rep ask for Traverus info? Probably not. So if Traverus send him an email, it is an unwanted solicitation. BUt the email address is good.
See, I know it is a tough concept to grasp.
If you are ever in California, I know an Internet pioneer that lives on a farm that might give you some tips. I hear there is a creek on the property...you ever been up a creek before? Thought so ;)
Now you say that the e-mail address wasn't given to him? So which is it John??? Was it given to him or was it not? maybe you just don't know and are making an assumption!!!
ReplyDeleteSTOP!!! You're making a fool out of yourself.
John, also to clarify your statement again... As long as I get the e-mail address from the person (whose it is) and have that person's permission to send info about YTB, then it is UNSOLICITED!!!
ReplyDeleteNow SHUT UP!!!
Proud, you are confused. Go back and reread what John has said. The person who received the email did not want the email and does not know how the YTB'er got the email address.
ReplyDeleteYou are the one that needs to shut-up.
1. The person that got the email did not ask for it.
ReplyDelete2. The person that got the email had never had any contact with the sender before.
3. The person who got the email has no clue how their email address was obtained by the sender.
That's is unsolicited. Period.
Now will you listen?
ReplyDelete"Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete1. The person that got the email did not ask for it.
2. The person that got the email had never had any contact with the sender before.
3. The person who got the email has no clue how their email address was obtained by the sender.
That's is unsolicited. Period."
Now can you prove that the e-mail was dug up by the REP just by searching on the internet, or if it was personally given to him in permission for the info? NO! You can't prove a thing. I went back to the main topic and saw absolutely no evidence stated by the person who allegedly ofrwarded it to John that it was or was not solicited by permission. Because nothing can be proven, this is a dead subject. Move on!
That's "forwarded" for the spelling police... LOL!!!
ReplyDelete