Joanie Ogg, founder of NACTA was interviewed by Nadine Godwin from Travel Weekly recently and I thought this was an interesting question:
Of course no names were mentioned, but I think it is interesting that Travel Weekly utilized the term "trip whores", and I also find Joanie's response pretty right on the money as this industry moves to the future. See, I was not that far off when I talked about prostituting the industry!Q: Suppliers are under no obligation to select partners based on credentials. Do you have hopes that suppliers may become more selective and weed out amateurs and trip whores?
A: Absolutely. I think they will look at host agencies, the number of contractors, the value of bookings [per seller] and recognize that support dollars are better spent where sellers are more productive.
John,
ReplyDeleteAs an RTA in YTB i actually agree completely with you and this statement in this blog.
Thanks for posting it. But it is important to realize that she wasn't talking about YTB like, I am sure, you want all that read it it assume based on all of your previous hate filled rants
Way to go John. A very good post today and I think the travel industry will weigh heavily on the suppliers rules. I know you didn't point to any MLM's just as the interviewer and interviewee didn't, but as one of those MLM Travel Agents I believe in it. I was told from day one that the use of "travel agent", referring or otherwise should be done professionally and with no expectations to be treated differently than any other person. The supplier has every right to treat you as an equal or as special as they want. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteJohn,
ReplyDeleteAs a Director in YTB I hope that all suppliers put booking requirements for Fam Trips and Travel Perks.
I think we should all play by the same rules. This is one area that I would love to see happen in the industry. It would be good for both sides.
I am a strong believer in the importance to sale travel to get travel perks. I love what Carnival has done to make the requirements the same across the board for all agents. This is a no brainer for me.
You would be surprised how many people feel the same way in YTB as I do. You see, most of us have values and prefer to not be whores.
I am shocked that Nadine Godwin would use the term "trip whores" - but somewhat pleased all the same! Who do you think they were talking about? It is quite obviously "card mills".
ReplyDeleteHere's why I say that:
A: Absolutely. I think they will look at host agencies, the number of contractors, the value of bookings [per seller] and recognize that support dollars are better spent where sellers are more productive.
It is already happening - one can see it by the way Vendors treat the various Consortia - the productive ones get more in the way of marketing assistance, education, and FAMs.
CTA in MD
One can speculate all they want on who is considered a "trip whore" and who is not.
ReplyDeleteTo the anonymous YTB director, I appreciate your opinion but I find it hard to believe that the majority of YTB shares your opinion. Again, look on Craigslist, look on a telephone pole near a shopping mall. It is all about recruiting the downline and selling the perks.
Now of course as the perks become more restrictive, something will need to happen as you realistically can no longer sell them as a purchased benefit.
What is critical and telling here, and this is where I do strongly feel YTB is included is the mention about the value of the bookings per seller.
This is EXACTLY what Perillo did before they came out and opposed YTB. They looked at their YTB bookings (as meager as they may have been) and noticed that 90% of them were personal. OK they may have been full fare, but in essence it was a 10% or more rebate on personal travel.
This is what should be getting the supplier's attention. YTB may have sold $500,000,000 in travel last year. And if true, that is ONLY $3500 per "agent". When YTB is selling that the "average" family spends $5000 on vacations per year--it does not take a rocket scientist to see who bought (for the most part) the $3500.
Essentially, YTB is offering a method to rebate commissions from the suppliers. Would these 140,000 RTAs have taken the trip without YTB? I beth that the slim majority would have. Say 60%--and booked with a TTA, online, or with the cruise lines.
Oh come on now. you want to know who they are talking about? Here is the list:
ReplyDeleteYTB (notice they are on the top)
Joystar
Traversus
GTI
Inteletravel
Coastal Vacations
World Ventures
Pro Travel Network
VIP Travel Team
and a few more I am sure.
Do you really think that they are NOT talking about YTB? LOL As Cruise man says TOO FUNNY!
WHen each RTA sels the paltry amount they do, it will ultimately dawn on someone.
Thanks for the Friday morning laugh guys!
Ha ha oh they are not talking about YTB...just they they were not talking about you at Royal Caribbean...or IATAN....
Way to go Travel Weekly--calling a spade a spade--or a whore a whore!
John -
ReplyDeleteNo one will dispute that YTB pays a lot of money to sell the travel websites. And through the sale of the websites, we get some people that will sell a lot of travel and some that sell a small amount of travel. Our goal is a MINIMUM of 10 customers per website.
Your average sales per RTA is a bit skewed. YTB started 2007 with 60,000 RTAs and ended the year with 135,000. You are trying to take YTB's sales of $500 million and divide it by 135,000. You know the figure is not accurate because YTB did not have 135,000 RTAs active during the whole calendar year.
YTB is continuing to address increased travel sales with vehicles such as the Funshine Conventions and the Marc Mancini trainings. I would like to hear about the tools that Traverus, World Ventures and others use to promote travel sales and trainings amongst their ranks.
Hint - You won't hear about them because they don't have anything like that in place.
So, how many ACTIVE RTA's are ther? Does anyone at YTB really know? does just paying the 50 make you 'active' or is there someway to equate travel sales with activity per RTA?
ReplyDeleteLB--you can't have it both ways. When I was trying to determine a retention (or attrition) rate, I was told we could not use the "monthly average" every statistician said we needed. No, we had to use the number of RTAs at the end of the year. So now when the math does not work out, we need to change it?
ReplyDeleteI know YTB is offering some training. NOt so sure they are "addressing" it from the comments on here, posts on other forums, emails I receive, and the listings on Craigslist and so forth.
There are people very interested in selling travel. Dough is one. Rod is another--but so far YTB has failed Rod for almost three years. On one hand, Proud says all YTB people will jump to help someone else, and yet Rod is floundering. Does Doug need help? I am not sure, but when you put out a program enticing people to become a LEVEL 4 director in 15 months and there is a very intelligent guy stuck in Coach's Corner for 3 years. What does that say about the support of YTB to the masses.
The financials will tell. Your money--the vast majority of it--is coming from renting these sites out and getting the sign up fee. Alone, that is illegal. That is an illegal pyramid scheme. So, travel is tossed into the mix. It is sexy, attractive, has an almost universal appeal, and then you toss in some of the perceived perks and people are tossing money at you.
YTB HQ could care less if they sold another cruise. The only reason those 125 people are employed there is to make sure the pyramid scheme stays legal. YTB operates best on the fringe of legality.
If the program is so great, again, why are 95% of the reps and (I am guessing) 80% of the RTAs not making any type of money--even for a second income?
Your answer likely will be that they are not working the system, or they failed themselves not YTB. Well then, I need to ask how did YTB attract so many losers in the first place?
I've been reading both Doug's blog and John's Blog...
ReplyDeleteYTB we need to step off this Merry Go Round called MLM and Travel: A Bad Mix and start looking at reality.
Proud, LB, SD, Rod and Doug, please log into you Travel Portal and look at what suppliers on doing for YTB.
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And that's just the Home Page.
Oh and one last thing...did you check your Travel Compass?
On Wednesday, March 5th Business Development Director Sandy Meyer made a special stop at the YTB Edwardsville office to present YTB with the Platinum Apple Award.
A Platinum Apple Award for prostition...
What will they think of next?
The ATSA, the TTA's and even the NCAA for all I care can yammer all they want about what they think suppliers are going to do.
Doesn't make it true.
Sorry...
John-
ReplyDeleteYou are smart enough to know what I said about the average sales per RTA is correct based on the travel sales for 07 and final number of RTAs in 07. I don't care what anyone else has told you. I'm talking about this example alone. I don't agree with you on most issues relating to YTB, but I know you are a smart guy and my response to those figures is correct.
I definately disagree with your premise "YTB HQ could care less if they sold another cruise". That is ridiculous and certainly is a slap in the face of some great employees (349, not 125) at the YTB Corporate offices.
Maybe you could say that about some of the other travel MLMs, but we do sell a lot of cruises and the employees at HQ are great to work with.
Do you honestly think that these specials only apply to YTB, that they weren't compiled by the person who checks the "specials" faxes that every agent gets and put onto your websites? Give me a break. Who cares that YTB got the platinum apple..you have 160000 RTAS working on that. My office has 15 and we have similar awards from tour operators. It means nothing.
ReplyDeleteHOW MANY RTA'S are ACTIVELY selling travel on their websites. Not how many websites do you have, how many are in actual use? 160000? 50000? 10? Can anyone answer that question?
Hey, wait a minute! I got those same offers directly from the vendors by email. well, not the apple award cause I sell hardly any apple due to customer service issues,
ReplyDeleteHey, wait a minute! I got those same offers directly from the vendors by email. well, not the apple award cause I sell hardly any apple due to customer service issues,
ReplyDeleteYup - exactly the same offers available through ANY channel.
ReplyDeleteCTA in MD
Having attended a YTB recruitment seminar, free travel from the suppliers was one of the main perks. So please don't give me the line of crap about YTB not promoting this. Since they are also the largest travel MLM, I am positive they are at the top of the list of abusers. As John said, all you have to do is look at any YTB post on Craigslist and you will discover the "travel as an insider" or "free travel" and all the tax advantages of deducting 100% of your home office. Someday I am hoping that Craigslist will enforce the anti-spam policy they have in place. I am sick to death of seeing ads from Lumsden Travel and Your Boss Got Fired which are both YTB spammers. It was also stated by IATAN that YTB is a card mill and that was just one more reason to revoke.
ReplyDeleteApple Platinum. Well, here in Apple's backyard, we are required to have 1000 pax to get platinum (and no I did not get it) but in Ohio and part's west it is considerably less, like 400!
ReplyDeleteSo assuming you needed 1000...congratulations to each RTA for sending .0071 of a passenger.
And I wonder what the number actually is and again how many of those bookings were for RTAs personally?
Well since most come-on's spout to "book your own travel" and save money, I would think that majority were probably self bookings. But then again I'm sure that that will be dismissed.
ReplyDeletePersonal Travel should NEVER be counted for anything. It's certainly not in the office I work for.
Well we know that Happy bought some apples for her family....
ReplyDeleteI didn't see any Crystal specials posted for the RTA's. would you like me to post them here for you? They have some really good deals for the Med this summer.
I get those same offers also in my in-box. Big deal. Keep drinking the kool aid and keep believing in false gods.....
ReplyDeleteHey anonymous....did you see this one? Thought not!
ReplyDeleteRoyal Caribbean Sales Event
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AGENTS ONLY:
Take advantage of this FREE Customized E-Sales Tool offered by Royal Caribbean International®. Simply click on the "Please Promote To Your Clients" link above and follow the prompts to personalize this Sales Event email message & promote it to your clients. Your clients will receive an email that looks like it was created and sent by you, and all sales leads will be emailed directly back to you!
Start planning your weekly Sales Event email blast to your clients. You will receive these e-mails, that can be customized & promoted to your clients, each Thursday or Friday.
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Sailing Date Deluxe Balcony Ocean View Interior 3/4 Rate Single
Supplement Combinable
w/Air?
US CAD US CAD US CAD US CAD US CAD
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Category N/A N/A H K, L
4 Night Bahamas Cruise
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Supplement Combinable
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Category N/A N/A G N/A
7-Night Southern Caribbean from San Juan
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The traditional travel agents on this board always ask the same redundant question of how much travel do the 140,000 RTA's sell.
ReplyDeleteThe question is meaningless when you consider all the replicated travel booking sites belong to YTB. It's really about how much travel does YTB sell. That's the bottom line the vendors are interested in and not how much each individual site sells. Just my opinion.
olescorekeeper
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If there is any question to what is posted on Craigslist, here is a very typical one I found on my very first search today:
ReplyDeleteEarn 60% Commissions On Your Own Travel.
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Reply to: serv-606158030@craigslist.org
Date: 2008-03-14, 10:45AM PDT
The Travel and Tourism Industry is getting bigger and bigger and more people are booking travel online than ever before. No other company on the planet offers you the following incredible business opportunity:
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Your Own Online Travel Booking Website
Earn 60% of the Commission on Travel Sales
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So there you have it in black and white. Does this sound like something YTB wouldn't approve of? Highly unlikely. It sounds like it came directly from YTB's headquarters.
Not really OLE.
ReplyDeleteAlot of the suppliers now are looking at the individual agents and what they produce when it comes to handing out any perks. Look at what Carnival did. I'm sure that alot are going to follow suit on that as well. Which they should. If your not actively booking the product "personally" then why should you benefit from any discount they can give for your own travel.
And the first thing is
ReplyDelete"Save Money on Travel and Get Travel Industry Perks "
But thats not what YTB is about..right?
Another "rogue" agent whos not supposed to be posting ad's on newsgroups/forums/etc. I see hundreds of them everyday, obviously headquarters doesn't care as long as their checks cash.
2 different things here about suppliers. I agree that "perks" should be based on individual sales, and as an RTA with YTB I welcome this as we are about selling travel. However, as a company, the suppliers are joining forces with YTB as as a whole we are doing a lot of business.
ReplyDeleteAnon said, "I welcome this as we are about selling travel. However, as a company, the suppliers are joining forces with YTB as as a whole we are doing a lot of business."
ReplyDeleteBingo Anon! What I said..and more.
Thanks!
olescorekeeper
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Which suppliers are 'joining forces' with YTB as opposed to any other agency or consortium? Please don't say Spring Tours, as they have offered your 'exclusive' packages to other non YTB agents.
ReplyDeleteWell, by saying joining forces I am in no way implying that those vendors or suppliers aren't doing business with other agencies.
ReplyDeleteSo, basically any of those that still do business with YTB, especially those that offer specific selling options, are, IMO, joining forces.
And what specific selling options are those?
ReplyDeleteIn reality, some vendors treat YTB as they do Joystar, Vacation.com and ABC Travel on Main Street. No vendor considers YTB to be 'special'. And some vendors will not allow YTB to book at all.
I guess I get it. Thanks.
Yes, the vendors want your money. We get that. However, you cannot honestly say that YTB is about selling travel. They are more about selling websites and their downlines then they are about actually selling a product. The emails, postings, newsgroups, ads, flyers etc, all say the same thing...and its always about the PERKS FIRST, what you get. Not about helping someone with their travel.
ReplyDelete"Save Money on Travel and Get Travel Industry Perks
Huge Discounts on Hotels, Car Rentals, Luxury Cruises, Upgrades, Exotic Vacation Packages
Company Fam Trips
Fam Trip Access to Exotic Places
Start Your Own Travel Business"
This is what vendors should be looking at.
I can honestly say that YTB IS about selling travel. Your comments are true about people in YTB. There are some who's purpose is to recruit people to ultimately sell more travel for the company.
ReplyDeleteI will make an analogy for you. Let's say that you work for a major retail chain. Your title is "hiring manager". You will likely place ads trying to share with prospective employees what the benefits of working at your retial outlet are. You may, never mention what it is that your company sells. But, your PURPOSE is to find more salespeople, even though the PURPOSE of the company is to SELL whatever their product is.
I, personally choose to sell travel AND recruit new people to sell more travel.
The ad above says literally nothing about selling travel. Its basically, buy this website, you'll get discounts, perks and tax write offs. Build a downline, sell more websites, make more money.
ReplyDeleteI don't know what your definition of a travel agent is. But none of that applies.
I need to clarify some of the junk I just read:
ReplyDeleteJohn,
I have only been floundering for 2 years, 2 months not three years. YTB did not let me down. I messed things up myself.
There are approximately 425 employees at YTB HQs.
The last I heard which was a week ago, there were 141,000 RTAs after 9,000 were added in Canada the first month.
Rod said:
ReplyDelete'No one would sign up with YTB if all they paid you is 60% of the travel commissions. As you saw in my last post, the supplemental overrides is what makes YTB so attractive.'
This doesn't sound like travel sales are the big draw to join YTB.
Rod, face it. whoever signed you up didn't care if you could or couldn't sell a hot dog at a baseball game. Their downline is more important than your success or happiness. so, in turn, you do the same to others. Have you tried vocational training?
ReplyDeletewit MLMs its all about ME and nothing about you or the poor customer.
The problem with ROd is not about YTB but about his sponsor. When I got into YTB, I went and spoke to some people and had them connect with my sponsor. She help me bring them in. I do the same with my people. I just had a meeting today with 4 people, none of which were my finds.
ReplyDeleteBack to Lisa, again, that ad, you are right was about recruiting, but I bring you back to my analogy of the retail store. What say you?
THe person who signed ROd up didn't really care about his downline because if he did he would have tapped into Rod's warm market to capitalize on those people. Rod's sponsor made 50 or 100 bucks ONCE by signing him up. And, a power team leader has made 2 dollars a month from ROD. Again, Rod's presence really isn't benefitting his upline. If they really were just concerned about their downline, they would work with him.
ReplyDeleteNo guarantees but if ROd were in my downline he would either be doing at least OK< or I would encourage him to not do it if it wasn't for him.
So, how many of you consider the people you sign up as travel whores? Do they just want the perks? Do they want the easy money? Could you get them to sign up without the romance of traveling at a discount as a carrot? You can't, and that's that.
ReplyDeleteAnon,
ReplyDeleteI assist with the hiring in my office. A general add for work would look like this. NO WHERE..does it ever talk about the perks of the industry. If the agent doesnt produce, they don't get them. Plain and simple.
For instance...
Qualified candidates must be proficient in Worldspan or Sabre, work well in a team environment and willing to go the extra mile. You should be experienced in booking all forms of travel. These positions require a minimum of 3 years experience in corporate travel, leisure travel or customer service. You should possess a strong background in the travel industry and have a love of travel.
· Extremely organized and able to prioritize.
· Great attention to detail and accuracy.
· Positive attitude and strong work ethics.
· Excellent computer and related software application experience.
· Excellent customer service skills.
· Ability to work quickly and efficiently under pressure.
Skills / Requirements
SABRE OR WORLDSPAN PROFICIENT
Must be detail oriented.
Knowledge of Microsoft Outlook, Word, Excel and Trams.
That is what a normal ad would look like. We do not pimp out the perks of the industry. I don't think I've ever really seen a retail company (say like a WALMART) post an add just saying..
WORK FOR US SO YOU CAN GET DISCOUNTS ON IN-STORE CRAP.
To whoever said they mad $100 off Rod 1 time and $2 a month. To be honest, that might be incentive enough for me to ignore him. The more people that I recruit, the more money I make. Look at the monthly bonuses, and so forth. The override on travel commission is paltry.
ReplyDeleteI heard that PJ has 50K in his downline. At $2 a month and $100 a pop initially, that ain't too bad.
So you say I should concentrate on helping someone sell travel to work in a 10% industry where they get a 60% cut and I get a slice of that?
I make more (and the system is so designed) if I ignore and recruit the next one.
How do you think Piccolo took Coach for all that money so fast?
To the Retail HR guy---
ReplyDeleteWhen was the last time you saw this ad:
Help wanted: Enjoy 20% off all of your purchases here. Call 555-1212 for more info.
Never. You tell them what the job IS, and yes you may tell them a perk or two. You know, like a salary range, mileage reimbursement, employee discount, free meals, etc. You don;'t sell it on the perks.
But I just thought of this. Most places have a salary range (not in an ad usually but will discuss this) and YTB does not and cannot. So they cannot reasonably expe ct someone to be attracted to EARN almost $300 a year with YTB--of course they have to sell the perks.
Makes perfect sense now.
If you want a real ad for YTB or any Travbel MLM, here it is:
Help Wanted: Become part of a $7 trillion dollar industry, alienate all your family and friends. Invest a small one time $5500 fee and only $50 dollar a month and you too can earn 60% of that $7 trillion dollar travel pie (at $297 a year
TravelLisa said, "However, you cannot honestly say that YTB is about selling travel. They are more about selling websites and their downlines then they are about actually selling a product."
ReplyDeleteTraveLisa, the more YTB internet websites, the more travel YTB sells as a company. Simple concept that you guy's aren’t getting. It really doesn't matter how much each individual site sells. More sites...more travel sold. Are you following? Again, simple concept.
olescorekeeper
Booking Travel? Why pay a travel agent $30 to $100 more for that airline ticket? Book travel here and help fight cancer! Click here...
National Foundation for Cancer Research
Here are a few job postings for travel agents...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.traveljobsearch.com/employer_FE.asp?employerid=501&vacID=313725
If you click you will see this line...
The successful candidate can expect an above average salary, with commission, bonuses and WIDE RANGING DISCOUNTS.
Here is one from American Express looking for a travel agent...
http://jobview.monster.com/GetJob.aspx?JobID=69189893&JobTitle=Travel+Counselor%2f+Travel+Agent+-+Cambridge+(Harvard+Sq)%2c+MA&q=Travel%2c+Transportation+and+Tourism&jto=1&rad=50&rad_units=miles&cnme=Natick&sid=40&brd=1&cy=US&vw=b&AVSDM=2008-02-29+15%3a46%3a00&pg=1&seq=1
IN the benefits section it says one of the benefits is luxury FAM trips.
Here is one from Liberty travel...
http://jobview.monster.com/GetJob.aspx?JobID=69175407&JobTitle=Travel+Agent&q=Travel%2c+Transportation+and+Tourism&jto=1&rad=50&rad_units=miles&cnme=Natick&sid=40&brd=1&cy=US&vw=b&AVSDM=2008-02-29+12%3a03%3a00&pg=1&seq=33
Benefits for the entry level agents include travel discounts...
Another AMEX listing...
http://jobview.monster.com/GetJob.aspx?JobID=69172467&JobTitle=Group+Travel+Planner+-+Cambridge%2c+MA&q=Travel%2c+Transportation+and+Tourism&jto=1&rad=50&rad_units=miles&cnme=Natick&sid=40&brd=1&cy=US&vw=b&AVSDM=2008-02-29+11%3a21%3a00&pg=1&seq=35
Also includes luxury Fam trips as one of the benefits
Here is one for Viking river cruises
http://jobview.monster.com/GetJob.aspx?JobID=68538436&JobTitle=Call+Center+Travel+Consultants&q=Travel%2c+Transportation+and+Tourism&jto=1&rad=50&rad_units=miles&cnme=Natick&sid=40&brd=1&cy=US&vw=b&AVSDM=2008-02-25+15%3a54%3a00&pg=1&seq=49
It offers as one of its benefits "travel benefits"...hmmm what's that mean??????
Here's another one. nothing specific but asks if the "day to day rewards of the travel industry are appealing?
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/job-JFNXA9TLJTK;_ylt=At88K6z4XA_bgvvb52NwmoD6Q6IX?search_url=%2Fjob-search-k-travel%2520agent-c-Hospitality_Travel
Here is one for AAA that offers as some of its benefits, FAM trips and travel discouts...
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/job-J0O6QHXLRW6;_ylt=AmetKnWt9s0OgGV9H_jax376Q6IX?search_url=%2Fjob-search-k-travel%2520agent-c-Hospitality_Travel
Here's another AMEX job offering benefits that include discount travel opportunities.
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/job-JUS5L4DTUJU;_ylt=ApeRh0kZsULKNJCsqRN9Sg_6Q6IX?search_url=%2Fjob-search-k-travel%2520agent-c-Hospitality_Travel
Here;s another one that offers FAMS as a benefit ...This is fun.
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/job-JRKD4QZQUDA;_ylt=Aq7Ns063Kku8bEk9GcpoP9r6Q6IX?search_url=%2Fjob-search-k-travel%2520agent-c-Hospitality_Travel
Here is one for a guest service agent at a hotel where they mention in the ad benefits of travel discounts...
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/job-J1B89E5BPBC;_ylt=AuD7Wo95Ej9hzx6CJFrxnqX6Q6IX?search_url=%2Fjob-search-k-travel%2520agent-c-Hospitality_Travel%3Foffset%3D60
Here is one, not too big a deal but it mentions as a benefit priveledges at resorts..
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/job-JCQDD6YB0G6;_ylt=AlzLH_R48LV6gWOt.XZmVCP6Q6IX?search_url=%2Fjob-search-k-travel%2520agent-c-Hospitality_Travel%3Foffset%3D120
Cruise job...
http://www.cruisejobline.com/
Says.."Furthermore, you do get paid to see the world"
Here is the first paragraph from hcareers which is the hospitality careers website...
http://www.hcareers.com/us/Industry/Travel/tabid/238/Default.aspx
Travel Jobs
Do you love to travel? Enjoy trying different cuisines and experiencing other cultures? Do you like to see history come alive in countries outside yours? Then you could be an ideal candidate for a job in the travel industry.
In the U.S. alone, according to the Travel Industry Association, travel and tourism is a $1.3 trillion industry and one of the country's largest employers with 7.5 million direct travel-generated jobs. That’s good news for an industry that’s weathered storms, yet always manages to bounce back.
I GUESS I WILL STOP HERE AS MY TEN MINUTES OF SEARCHING FOUND LOTS.
I just came across a much better offer for YTB. I wonder if Mildred can guarantee that I will earn $2k in 2 weeks? This is from Craigslist, of course.
ReplyDeleteWant To Earn $2000.00 In The Next Two Weeks? (richmond / point / annex)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to: milticket7700@yahoo.com
Date: 2008-03-14, 1:12PM PDT
Have you every wanted to Start Your Own Business?
Hi...My name Is Mildred and I am one of the newest members of YTB.
Your Travel Biz (YTB), Inc. is the home of the Independent Travel Agent Program. As a home-based independent travel agent for Your Travel Biz, Inc., we offer you the best of both worlds; flexible hours that come from working at home and the volume purchasing power of a large national travel agency. Now you can own your own business, work from the comfort of your home, and earn a full-time or part-time residual income.
You will be in business for yourself but not by yourself. One of our established leaders, Romacio Fulcher, will be your mentor and success coach. Imagine having a multi-millionaire take you by the hand and help you every step of the way in your new business venture. That is what you get when you team up with us. You not only have one but several individuals who will be willing to work with you and coach you to success. They are just a phone call or email away.
Check out my Website at www.miltickettravel.com
If your interested, e-mail me at milticket7700@yahoo.com.
That YTB Ad should be removed and that RTA kicked out for mentioning a money in 2 weeks like that. It offends me (an RTA in YTB)
ReplyDeleteBy the way, to add to the previous post, this is right from Liberty Travel's website...
Excellent Benefits
All eligible employees may elect to participate in a full benefits package including comprehensive health care, dental, life insurance, and 401K savings program, with a company match. Paid vacation, sick time, holidays, and familiarization trip (sales agents only) time are also provided. In addition, employees enjoy membership in the International Airlines Travel Agent Network (IATAN) and discounted travel opportunities. Finally, employees can earn bonus dollars by having their friends join our team through our Employee Referral Program.
Hmmmm..mentioning FAM trips and discounted travel??????
Tsk Tsk
The difference is that they are employees and are expected to work and earn them. There is no expectation of that from YTB.
ReplyDeleteDidn't someone say that once you join YTB you are there forever and they never take your name off the rolls?
With YTB, before the 1st of the year, I could get my CLIA card for $500 and $149.
This year, I have to buy a vacation worht $1500 and then I can get them. Nothing about working for it or earning it.
Dipshit
Expected to work???? Well that is your assumption. And admittedly a fair one, however, my posting of those job ads was in response to this whole damn topic. I am not at all suggesting that those companies are bad, but, the truth is twofold....First, many people get involved in the travel industry, whether it is with YTB or AMEX, to reap some kind of travel benefit.
ReplyDeleteSecond, the recruiting aspect of YTB is separate from the travel aspect AND YTB's intention and goal is to become the largest TRAVEL company in the world. The multilevel marketing way to that goal is by recruiting more people to SELL TRAVEL.
If you work as a TTA with a big company, you got hired, were rewarded with certain benefits unique to the travel industry, to enable your company to SELL MORE TRAVEL. It is possible, if not likely that someone at your company, RECRUITED you, whether through an ad, or an on site recruiting event, whatever, it may be.
One more thing.... I appreciate the dipshit comment, it speaks to your maturity. Although it is refreshing to have name calling from someone who is not anonymous.
ReplyDeleteRod has a "sponsor" that failed him? What now you guys are AA? Please....
ReplyDeleteAs to this comment "I, personally choose to sell travel AND recruit new people to sell more travel." Inquiring minds want to know how much travel in dollars you actually sold and how much commission you actually made? My guess is very little. You all talk a good game. It is really amusing you all work for peanuts.
Liberty Travel owns GOGO Worldwide Vacations, one of the largest legitimate travel companies in the US. Of course they mention FAM trips because they are sales reps and have to know the product, unlike an RTA who just has a website. FAMS are not much fun. You have to inspect properties for the majority of the time spent at one. That is why they are called FAMILIARIZATION tours. I personally don't think a FAM is a perk. It is work.
ReplyDeletean insider who knows -
ReplyDeleteYou said: dipshit
It describes you very well. Glad to see you put it in writing.
lbtravel: Isn't that like in grade school when you would say "I know you are but what am I?" Go try and sell some travel. Hahahahahahahahahahaha. Like that will ever happen.
ReplyDeleteanonymous -
ReplyDeleteOur favorite "insider" is usually 180 degrees off in his assessment of anything YTB.
I couldn't help myself. When someone throws you a hanging curve ball, you have to hit it out of the park.
"Dipshit"?
ReplyDeleteThat may be Insiders preference, but I would think salsa would go much better with Mexican tortia chips.
olescorekeeper ;>)
Booking Travel? Why pay a travel agent $30 to $100 more for that airline ticket? Book travel here and help fight cancer! Click here...and, gracias amigos!
National Foundation for Cancer Research
So, to defend FAM trips in a job posting, anon says it is not fun, but work. But, when it is part of a YTB ad....then RTAs are only joining for the perks???? Help me out here.
ReplyDeleteLuckuly there are only 2 sides to a mouth, who knows what else we would get.
Ole
ReplyDeleteQuestion - Is it your comm thats going to NCR or YTB's. Not being sarcastic or attacking..just a honest question. Cancer Research is what I donate to. Having lost alot of family and my best friend to it. Its interesting to see on the site that way...
Regarding Rod being worth only $100 one time to whoever signed him up...this may be true OR Rod may have been the sixth person the sponsor signed...that would make him worth much more to the sponsor. Tough luck for Rod if he never sells even one airline ticket...but the sponsor has a bonus and a website for free.
ReplyDeleteDid I say sponsor? I meant recruiter.
ReplyDeleteLisa -
ReplyDeleteIn case Ole is off for the weekend . . . NFCR gets 60% of the booking commissions. It is a GREAT program. And they have no monthly hosting fee. I am sorry about your personal losses. It is a terrible disease.
Hopefully this is one even John will find good with.
I am skeptical of any charity YTB is hooked up with. I know a charity that got involved with them in my home town same pitch 60% of commissions would be donated and they did not see a dime of the money promised.
ReplyDeleteIf you want to donate to cancer research plenty of legit foundations without YTB's involvement.
It is a GREAT program for YTB (corporate). They actually charge their members even more to be able to sell to charities, churches, schools, etc.
ReplyDeleteProbably a no-lose situation for the group...but probably not much gain, either.
To the person that remarked about the FAM trips. As a working real travel agent, I do not classify them as a perk by any means. They really are work with little spare time. When attending a YTB presentation they tell you about FAMS but don't mention anything about inspecting properties. They said that you would go on fabulous FAM trips to exotic destinations for a mere fraction of what it costs the regular traveler, stay at the finest resorts, and your vacation was for pennies on the dollar. That is how it was and is presented. There is your difference. Since YTB has lost it's IATA it's doubtful anyone from YTB can go on a real FAM anyway. Some day all of the suppliers will come around and only allow those agents that sell their products.
ReplyDeleteanonymous -
ReplyDeleteYour credibility just took at hit.
You said: "I am skeptical of any charity YTB is hooked up with. I know a charity that got involved with them in my home town same pitch 60% of commissions would be donated and they did not see a dime of the money promised".
So they signed up for the 60% commissions? Really! Sorry, pal, the 60% commissions rate just came into effect Feb. 1, 2008. It was 40% previous to that. Another good example of YTB making things better all of the time.
Your story is contrived. Reminds me of some of the other "tales of woe" about YTB on this site. I guess that is typical of the internet.
The YTB Association program has been in effect for 3 years. It has been very effective. Over 1500 non-profit associations have a private-label YTB website. All about travel. Nothing about networking.
I wish I was at liberty to tell you some of the names. Major names that people know as household names. Major college alumni associations. Large churches across the Country. Many non-profits doing much good here in the U.S.
Sorry, anonymous. I know you don't like YTB. But you just stepped in it.
lb...
ReplyDeleteAnd do those charities get a commission cut when someone wants to book Royal Caribbean? Celebrity? Azamara? Hilton? Marriott?
assnonymous -
ReplyDeleteRCCL, Celebrity or Azamara? No.
Marriott, Hilton? Yes.
Commissions paid to non-profits when donor base books with Expedia, Travelocity or TTAs:
NOTHING.
"Commissions paid to non-profits when donor base books with Expedia, Travelocity or TTAs: nothing"
ReplyDeletebzzz - wrong!
- Many TTA's have charity programs and tie-ins.
- BOTH Expedia and Travelocity have affiliate programs that pay good money to affiliates - including associations that put those affiliate links on their web sites.
YTB does not have a corner on the market of working with associations or charities - in fact, you have a long way to go to catch up.
Too bad I'm not at liberty to tell you who they are - LOL, TOO FUNNY.
anonymous -
ReplyDeleteLet's hear some specifics about the non-profits you are sending commissions to.
And I bet it is pennies versus 60% of the booking commissions that YTB gives to them.
YTB and Non-Profits: A GREAT MIX!
lb - How much has YOUR website travel generated in actual contributions towards your charity? Specifics are in order.
ReplyDeletemartha -
ReplyDeleteI initially responded to the "anonymous" poster that told the tale of woe with the YTB Association program. It was obviously contrived.
Then responding to the RCCL, Marriott, Hilton, etc . . .
This program has been very beneficial to hundreds of non-profits across the U.S. It is an area of YTB that I certainly have a special connection to. You can learn more about it by going to:
http://www.yourtravelbiz.com/rta/CRTA%20Site%20Content/Resource%20Center/Resources/Presentation%20Tools/P2G_email.mov
YTB, until a couple weeks ago, paid 40% of the booking commissions back to the non-profits. It is now 60% and it has been enthusiastically received.
I have personally been involved in helping 14 non-profits start their websites. I book any of my personal travel on the non-profit sites and rotate from one to another.
My personal site? The only non-profit (charity) that gets contributions from me is my Church . . . and they get 10% of every check I receive from YTB.
lb - and in monetary value that would amount to how much? You avoided my question before and I thought it was very specific. Without being rude and prying, would you please give us an estimated amount that you have contributed from your YTB earnings in the past 12 months?
ReplyDeleteAAA, AmEx and others mention the travel benefits as benefits of the job not a reason to take the job. And believe me none of those companies are going to hire someone off the street wanting to make a little extra money in their spare time. These companies are looking for real experienced travel agents. The agents that work for these companies earn those FAMs. You do not just get to start taking FAMs as soon as you start either. You would have at least a 6 month wait and then if you are not bringing in a minimum of $6000.00 in commissions a month you can forget about any FAMs. Also if you don't bring in a minimum of $6000.00 in commission a month you can forget about having a job for long too.
ReplyDeletelb-The reason I do not use my real name on here is because when I did at one point I was threatened and harrassed by YTB. You people are scary. Period. No way in h*** I am going to reveal my name and location. But rest assured I speak the truth. The Charity did not see a dime of the money promised.
ReplyDeleteAs to my not liking YTB I do not like the business model nor do I like the way you people are brainwashed. The only ones making money are at the top. I have talked to enough of you at trade shows etc and am scratching my head at why you keep throwing money into something that you aren't making a decent living at.
And you lb are wrong IMO. If you want to shut me up show us your earnings from YTB.....How much did you really make and let's compare them to what you could make with a legitimate host.
None of the YTBers want to sell just travel. They WANT to sell the websites cause that is where thr $$$ are. You've seen the YTB commsission payouts. Only a handful make enough selling travel to live on. Most are ay 9.97 a month or something. It's pathetic.
ReplyDeleteanonymous -
ReplyDeleteI still don't buy your story. And you just added to it with your supposed "threats".
If there truly was a non-profit, the only reason they did not see any income is no one booked on their site. If no one knows about their site, it is possible that they did not get any bookings. If there are bookings, they are paid. Pretty simple formula.
Your story still does not pass the smell test.
Martha -
I usually do not reveal personal information such as where I contribute. Under the circumstances, you have been respectful. It was a little bit over $6000.
eddie -
Yes, I do like to sell the websites. It fits the bill for the many people that are looking for a home business for tax purposes. Great product, internet-based, simple to do and appeals to most everyone. I'm enjoying hearing about the tax returns from new 2007 RTAs. I get a kick out of you and others who say people are losing money. Not the case at all . . . very happy RTAs on my Team.
anonymous -
ReplyDeleteI still don't buy your story. And you just added to it with your supposed "threats".
If there truly was a non-profit, the only reason they did not see any income is no one booked on their site. If no one knows about their site, it is possible that they did not get any bookings. If there are bookings, they are paid. Pretty simple formula.
Your story still does not pass the smell test.
Martha -
I usually do not reveal personal information such as where I contribute. Under the circumstances, you have been respectful. It was a little bit over $6000.
eddie -
Yes, I do like to sell the websites. It fits the bill for the many people that are looking for a home business for tax purposes. Great product, internet-based, simple to do and appeals to most everyone. I'm enjoying hearing about the tax returns from new 2007 RTAs. I get a kick out of you and others who say people are losing money. Not the case at all . . . very happy RTAs on my Team.
I don't believe you lb. I doubt very much where any of your RTA's earns enough selling travel to make a living or qualify for tax deductions for a homebased business. I'm not saying they don't take the deductions, just that they don't deserve them. I work at least 20 hours at home every other week or so and I hardly get a break on taxes at all.The guidelines are pretty strict. I think they/you are cheating. But, that's not unusual for YTB members is it?
ReplyDelete"It was a little bit over $6000." lb. I did the Math and you are still making crap.
ReplyDeleteCome clean lbtravel you and proud are the same person. How many aliases do you have? Do you all talk to each other? I bet that gets annoying huh?
ReplyDeleteSybil,
ReplyDeleteSame person as I have said all along. Might even be Doug for all you know. Doesn't matter they are all suckers drowning in this great scam known as YTB. This is a fun ride to watch!
ytbscam and all -
ReplyDeleteOh,hamburger flipper, ytbscam. John can look and see that Proud and I are not one in the same.
Got back from a trip and just read this blog entry and today's earth-shattering news.
I feel like a conservative Republican reading the Daily Kos. Trying to stand up for YTB is like supporting the war around a bunch of liberals. They will never get it.
I'm about to agree with Doug that this is a waste of time and energy. Reading today's entry and reading the responses from the TTAs, was, like I said, reading the Daily Kos or spending an hour watching The View with their whiny, rambling opinions. Just like they try to "one-up" each other, it is amusing to read all of your "insights" about YTB.
The continual attacks on YTB and the rambling opinions from ignorant posters (see ytbscam, eddie, insider who blows, etc . . .) just embolden me and others. I just finished up one of the best recruiting weeks that I have had since joining YTB. I attended the Red Carpet Day on Thursday and saw over 1000 people travel in to YTB HQ from all over the U.S.
I may be back from time to time to witness the whining and complaining. I'll just put my head down and build our business. Five new RTAs today on our Team. Kind of nice when I had to take a day away from YTB.
Sorry, ytbscam . . . we're going to be around for a long time to come. Bigger, better and keeping you obsessing about our every move. Keep on sowing your seeds of negativity and discord. The law that never fails is this - you will reap what you sow.
Actually, I can't. Blogger (a free service) does not have the ability to track people like that. The best I could do is wait till a time that you and Proud were posting comments at the same time and using the widget see what state you were each in but beyond that...
ReplyDeleteAnd to be honest, I don't care!
Glad you were at Red Carpet---did you happen to ask anyone about Seligman, Piccolo, Lindauer or the performance of the stock?
John,
ReplyDeleteThe best you can do is see what state?????
You posted not too long ago that you "knew" that 4 people logged in from YTBs home office. How did you know that?
I thought you all were internet pioneers like EAB. Here you go on websites 101.
ReplyDeleteThere is a widget on the blog (map of the world with little orange dots) that shows supposedly real time how many people are on the blog at any time. If you hover over the dot, you can see the state or country they are from. Click on the map and you may see some more detail like the city if it is a large metro area. So, if two people are logged in at the same time, I (and anyone) can see where they are roughly from. If they are posting comments at the same time, one can watch the blog and then see if indeed they are from the same area. If they are it is suspicious that they might be the same, but if one is in California and the other is in Chicago--probably not.
Now as to the 4 from YTB. I can see what domains log into read the blog. There was a post about this before. I cannot see who logs in but I can see that someone from YTB does read the blog. Again, no identity of the person just that their computer is hooked to the internet via the YTB network. Just like when I see the US Department of Justice--I can see that someone read it, but I cannot see if it was someone investigating YTB or a government wonk that is looking for a way to blow his pension.
John,
ReplyDeleteThat was more clear. I appreciate you clearing it up. I was just confused from the 2 posts that I referenced but it makes sense now. Thanks.
Signed,
Previous ANON poster
Further clarification...the vast majority of people come in via their ISP. Comcast, BellSouth, AOL, etc. So any locations are based on their closest facility is...I believe. So if you are loggin in with Comcast and are in Podunk, and the nearest place is in Wherever....it will show up as wherever.
ReplyDeleteBut it does give you an idea of where the traffic is coming from.
IB is not Proud - IB is very obviously better educated and in fact, just "smarter" than Proud. IB is still a "dupe" but he's not Proud...
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed the "174 visitors" from the DC area. I found that to be rather interesting...
ReplyDeleteJust asking.... but all those adds where you quoted FAMs and discounts - why didn't you quote the requirements of the job?
ReplyDeleteI take FAMs - I'm not particularly fond of them - they are ALOT of work. AND on top of being ALOT of work, one often has to put up with idiot "hobbyists" who are complaining about the work because they expected the FAM to be a vacation! Anyone want to guess who these people are????
Don't most 'fams' require an IATA?
ReplyDeletePersonally, I don't take fams anymore. The fakes ruin the experience and are an embarrassment.