Tuesday, June 3, 2008

A TTA Gets CRTA Trained

Below is the report from a TTA (Ann Ruhman, CTC) who attended a CRTA training class this weekend. No further comments from me are needed as this report speaks for itself. Remember, if you like the post, please click on the Digg button at the bottom. Thanks Ann!



A TTA in CRTA Training

31May2008

Yup. You read right. I, a 28 year travel industry veteran with my CTC, went to a CRTA training. Why? I suppose I felt that what many YTBers said, that I couldn’t understand what YTB was all about because I’d not been to a meeting, was true… And to be very honest, I wanted to see how many times I heard “Make money while you sleep.”

So where to start. The first thing that surprised me was that they did not have anyone sign in. I would have thought they would want to capture that info. The training was to start (according to the official info) at 8am. There were about 15-20 there at the time and we found out that the 8am start was a typo, it really started at 9am. So one of the Directors said he’d do some training just for us. Training, as in, how to present the opportunity. How to talk to people so they would be open to hearing about YTB. I must admit, a very smooth, appealing presentation. He did touch on one thing of interest to me, reasons for joining YTB. He said the 3 top reasons were:

  1. Receiving commissions/discounts on personal travel (about 85%).
  2. Tax benefits of a home business.
  3. Money (the network marketing side).

When the official presentation started at 9am (and about 60-70 people), they had 6 Directors there, including a celebrity RTA, James “Bonecrusher” Smith, who was making the rounds of the CRTA trainings. Each Director took a turn giving parts of the presentation (which truthfully drove me nuts). Keep in mind while reading this that this training was being done by Directors. Directors don’t become Directors by selling travel, but by recruiting. Now, someone did tell me that the “RTA Certification Class” was not travel training. So what was it? According to the agenda, it is composed of 2 parts – training on YTB Travel Network (agency side), and training on YourTravelBiz.com (network marketing side). This training is required to apply for CLIA (which leads to Fams and discounts) and to qualify for certain bonuses. It also costs $149 (although one can audit it as many times as one wants). So what was covered? Company structure, word of mouth advertising, ATM – Automated Travel Marketing (essentially the Steals and Deals email newsletter – collect those email addresses since you need to prove “pursuit of profit” for the IRS!). What they sell (vendor participation). They went through a few examples of commission earned on packages. Last Minute Deals. What is in the RTA’s back office (Travel Portal) – forms, commission tracking, how to submit a service ticket, etc. One director during this emphasized how RTA’s were to simply point clients to their website, not get involved in booking for the client. So far, so good, right? Well, then we get into how to submit a claim form for commissions when a vendor is booked directly (what happened to pointing to the website and not getting involved with booking for clients?). They also mentioned that if booking directly with vendors, they recommend the RTA purchase E&O (but no real explanation as to what it was or why other than a very simple example, nor did they mention being covered by YTB). And of course we then have to mention the Power Team bonuses. One thing I did find amusing – there is a $5000 bonus available to the CRTA when a Power Team enrolled RTA earns $5000 in commissions. The best way to earn that bonus? Recruit a TTA (“selling travel is what they do!”). Haha. I’d have been a hot commodity in that room had they known… But back to training. Next? Qualifying for travel agent credentials – CLIA. Now I have to give them credit. They did emphasize that the CLIA card was not a discount card and that RTAs were to conduct themselves professionally. Further, they did say at different points in the presentation (about 3 times), that RTAs were not to be soliciting business or recruiting at industry events, on cruise ships, at hotels, on FAM trips… Credit where credit is due. However, they did make a point in saying that the CLIA tests were open book, so don’t worry about it.

Now the good part. “Travel as an Insider.” Examples of group bookings where the RTA and spouse went free. FAM trips and how to find them (YTB back office, Mailpound, FAMtastic, directly from vendors etc). How to book FAMS (“Enjoy yourself!”). (I found it interesting that they do have an “Inspection Form” they are to fill out.) Making your own FAM. Requesting benefits from vendors (phone and face-to-face). It was emphasized that now that you have a YTB travel agency, you are a travel professional and entitled to these offers and discounts. Very brief mention of travel training – they have videos on how to book individual vendors and vendors have their own training. Mention was made of YTB University and how there was a 30 year industry vet who was putting training modules together for YTB (I assume they were talking about Marc Mancini). But that seemed to be more an “Oh, BTW” type thought. They talked about the RTA Support System and that RTA Certification was “The BEST way to get basic travel training and the BEST way to learn the business.” [Ummm, what travel training? Maybe the part about how to ask for a discount?] No mention was ever made about the lack of IATAN, or vendors that they cannot book.

Next good part. The tax benefits of having a home based travel biz. “Everything we discuss today is legal, ethical and supported by current IRS statutes.” Steve, the CPA, was standing in the back and would take questions later… They talked about meeting the 4 IRS requirements for entertainment deductions, mileage logs, business deductions. Personally, I thought they were being very free and easy with what could be considered deductible. A mention was made of a local RTA who built a home theatre with a 120 inch plasma TV that he gave presentations to people in…. Legal? Maybe. Definitely stretching. I hope all those new RTAs have good tax people. I also was given the definite impression that all personal travel could be considered tax deductible too. But I’m not a tax accountant.

At this point (12:30pm) we were done with YTB Travel Network and broke for lunch (not provided by YTB). I broke for home. I was so overloaded with personal and professional conflicts at this point I just didn’t think I could handle another 2-3 hours listening about “the opportunity.” So many red flags. So many things to think about. Things like:

  • If I’ve paid $449 for my “agency,” and $49.95 per month after in fees, why am I paying another $149 to learn how to use it?
  • How can paying for a website make you a “travel professional” and therefore “entitled” to benefits offered in the industry?
  • How does pointing someone to a website entitle you to a commission for “selling” travel?
  • How does one justify calling themselves a “travel professional” when one freely admits that they are not in the business to sell travel?
  • And why do YTBers (or any MLM agent) refer to themselves as referral agents, insisting that they “just refer clients” to their websites, when they obviously contact and book directly with suppliers? If they just pointed to a website, there would be no way for them to claim a commission from a supplier they booked directly.
  • Do any really understand what it means to be an Independent Contractor? This was never touched on. When a Director asked the crowd “What’s the name of your travel agency?” Most shouted back “YTB!” Not the name they chose for their “agency.” This would be critical in understanding E&O as it applies to YTB and the IC, as well as when dealing with suppliers.
  • I just about popped when I heard that ridiculous claim about “over 208,000 B&M agencies have gone out of business in the last 8 years.”
  • And yes, I heard “I can make money while I sleep.”

On my way home I thought about these things. I have never denied that YTB could be an excellent entry into the biz. The website, while simple and cookie-cutter, is fairly easy to navigate. The back office seems to be sufficient to track bookings and commissions. The issue is that selling travel takes a back seat to the network marketing. People are NOT getting into YTB Travel Network to sell travel, but for the industry discounts and commission back on personal travel. They also know that the real money is in YourTravelBiz.com. One Director mentioned that if someone asked you whether YTB Travel Network was “one of those pyramid scams,” you can say NO (no mention of YourTravelBiz.com). But when breaking for lunch, another Director told everyone “When you come back, you’ll learn how to REALLY make money…” I know that it is constantly thrown out that YTB is 2 separate businesses. You can participate in one or the other or both. However, the 2 businesses, while technically separate, are inextricably linked, no matter what anyone wants to tell you. YTB Travel Network would not exist as it is today without YourTravelBiz.com. YourTravelBiz.com is pyramid and without YTB Travel Network would be toast. And this CRTA training (essentially required by YTB) is training for both. Go back to what I learned in the beginning – the number one reason for getting into YTB Travel Network is for the commissions/discounts on personal travel. Now, since the REP position is free, who’s not going to sign up for that too? The fact that you can recruit 6 people and get your monthly website fee reimbursed as well as your CRTA training reimbursed is added incentive for being a REP. And remember, Directors don’t become Directors by selling travel. So are we selling websites and taking advantage of discounts offered by suppliers without any intention of actually selling the product to a third party? I would have to say, yes. One woman sitting in front of me said she had signed up 3 days ago. 3 days and she’s a professional travel agent. Why did she join? “To get discounts off the cruises I take, the hotels I stay in.” The crowd applauded.

And you wonder why I’m insulted? As a supplier I’d be incensed.

For the traditional travel agent, the selling process includes qualifying the product to the client, the actual sell, service up to and including the actual travel and even follow-up after the client returns. For the MLM “travel agent,” service means pointing the client to a website for self-service. No qualifying, no assistance, no follow-up. Once the sale is made, any problems are directed back to the vendor. I think, why do the suppliers put up with this? They are paying out good money for what? I could see paying a referral fee. But why would a supplier pay up to a 16% commission, and have to service the booking themselves? Is the incremental business they get really worth it? It makes no sense. Then I get mad. As I said, I’ve spent 28 years in this industry, have had my CTC for 20 years because I recognized that it was the highest form of “certification” I could get. I do not ask for FAMs and discounts from suppliers to go on vacation. I don’t ask for upgrades. “Travel as an Insider”? It’s been years since I’ve traveled on a non-revenue airline ticket. The last time I asked for an agent rate at a hotel was in 2005. In many ways I feel I’m treated like dirt by suppliers. And I’m not alone. But I enjoy what I do and I’m told I’m good at it. So why am I mad? READ… MY… LIPS. Because the suppliers could put a halt to what is happening. By paying commissions to these MLM businesses they are enabling the problem. Do you not see that you are being taken advantage of? CLIA, especially, should be ashamed of themselves. As a trade association supposedly working for the betterment of the industry, they should be keeping better company and have higher standards. I applaud those suppliers who have put their foot down.


Are traditional agents without guilt? By no means. Yes, we have our bad eggs. We have those agents that put all their relatives on the IATAN list. We have those that only go to trade shows for the freebies. We have further exacerbated the problems by not encouraging some sort of universal licensing/certification in order to be in business, which makes saying “I’m a travel agent” as easy as hanging out a sign. There are a proliferation of trade associations all claiming to work for the agent, but most fail to do what most of us think they should be doing – that of educating the consumer of the value of working with a professional agent. Too, there is much apathy on the part of agents with regard to these travel MLMs. “Not my problem.”


Are the RTAs to blame? No, to a point. How can you blame someone who has no clue how the industry works? For those who have signed up with YTB (or any other MLM) and have been serious about learning the business, they are soon disenchanted with the emphasis put on recruiting. They, in many cases, move on to a traditional host agency. For those who find the MLM part of the business more alluring and are good at recruiting, the promise of YourTravelBiz.com riches keeps them in, and they take advantage of their status as “professional travel agents” with YTB Travel Network for their personal travel. Any incremental business from family and friends is simply icing on the cake. And for those who are professional MLM jumpers, who wouldn’t be attracted by not having to have a garage full of product? This is a huge plus for those in MLM. Are there some who have successfully integrated the 2? Yes. But they are in the minority (and I’m talking tiny), and I still question whether their priority is selling travel and servicing the client, or recruiting. The ones who are to blame are those at the top of the pyramid. Their obvious priority is YourTravelBiz.com, since they have no travel industry experience, surround themselves with MLM experts and move from one travel debacle to another.

But back to the CRTA training. I cannot say that anything I heard or saw changed my opinion or feelings about YTB. The focus, regardless of what people say, is recruiting. I saw this without even staying for the official network marketing part of the meeting. The “travel” part of the meeting was not about how to sell travel, but focused on the commissions and perks, with a little recruiting thrown in. Does YTB have a place, or niche, in the industry? With changes, yes, I believe that they could fulfill a spot. An entry into the business, which is sadly needed. But it’s doubtful that those changes would be forthcoming.

I would strongly encourage suppliers to attend a CRTA training to see for themselves what YTB is all about. If you come to a different conclusion, so be it. But at least you’ll not be able to say you weren’t warned…

I did sort of feel sorry for the 70% in the room who wouldn’t be around next year… But remember, Directors don’t become Directors from selling travel.

48 comments:

  1. Wow, well it seems just like Doug said, chock full of training for selling travel.

    BUt I am glad I have learned about the BEST way to get travel training. Who knew it was free and open to all?

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  2. Well apparently she went to the wrong training. That is not how I do my trainings at all!

    --Proud To Be YTB

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  3. Just got back from dropping the kids off from school and figured there might be a few comments. Seems there is not much to say to refute anything that Ann "learned".

    Hopefully we will have the "training manual" all 60 some pages of it shortly!

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  4. Oh of course you claim that she went to the wrong training! Every single time there is proof that YTB is doing the crap that we've been saying you're doing all along, it's because of a bad rta or something. Bull!! For a company who's leader runs around saying " if its not true don't say it" you are completely full of crap.

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  5. I went to a CRTA training a few years ago when I was with YTB. It was exactly how Ann described it. It's all recruit recruit recruit.

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  6. excellent review Ann. Thank you for taking the time out of your life to give us the TTA point of view on this supposed training.

    And Proud......OF COURSE it's NOT how your training sessions go!! Please!! Spare us!!

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  7. Well, as a real TA, I just got back from a very intense FAM to Budapest. It was no vacation, but it really was a learning experience and I am very excited about now being able to confidently sell the destination. I am hoping to take a vacation there next Spring.

    I'll be posting my trip reports on the two Forums that only allow real TAs to participate and I promise they will be full of real information for real TAs to use in actually selling....

    Thanks Ann, but I suspect this was not much of a surprise to anyone who has been reading this blog for a while.

    CTA in MD

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  8. As an RTA in YTB I appreciate that ANN went to a CRTA.
    I also found her story to be credible.
    With that said, with an open mind go back and re-read her post, she did, appreciated, make a point to point out the positive, but there was a lot of clear opinion sprinkled in as fact. Therein lies the problem.
    The main point, is no one in YTB says that recruiting is not important. IT IS. But, ann was looking for recruiting signs and found them.
    I have been to several CRTAs from various directors and can tell you that the importance of a sales team is relevant to the goal of SELLING MORE TRAVEL for yTB.

    With that said, there is also a reason that there are separate travel training sessions available beyond the CRTA. Keep in mind the CRTA gives no one any extra travel credentials. YOU CAN now go take the CLIA exam. If that is too easy then your issue should be with CLIA and not YTB.

    I found my first CRTA to be very useful as it was some great behind the scenes training to running my YTB business, back office, and other items that are crucial to running a business especially for someone who hadn't run one.

    But, the main point, is that ANN was indeed looking specifically for items that received far more weight in her post. I know this because I was at the CRTA in Dearborn this weekend.

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  9. The CERTIFIED REFERRING TRAVEL AGENT class is required to get your CRTA Card. So it does get a YTB ID card.

    And yes there is a HUGE issue with CLIA.

    So now the excuse is that the CRTA is not about travel it is about recruiting and to get travel you have to do more of those classes? I was told that the recruiting classes were recruiting and if you wanted travel training you needed to go to the CRTA class. That is what Doug told me many many times.

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  10. Much adoo about Nothing -

    William Shakespeare

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  11. Umm... that's "Much Ado About Nothing". Don't do too well on crossword puzzles, do you?

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  12. So, Anon thinks YTB's travel training is 'nothing.'

    I must say, from Anns report, I think he/she is right. It is nothing.

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  13. They don't care. All they care about is lining their pockets. Its not about the customer, its not about actually "selling travel", it's all about the money to do nothing!. Its all about being lazy, recruiting more people, so you can "make money as you sleep".

    Get off your asses, get off of welfare, and get a JOB.! Earn your paycheck, and stop sponging off friends, family, relatives, neighbors etc.

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  14. "Get off your asses"

    Isn't that the opposite of what the TTA's on this blog are doing right now?

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  15. My Team and I have sold over 1300 Travel Websites in my organization.
    There has been millions of dollars in Travel sold on these websites. We are not much different than Expedia or Travelocity, the only major difference is there are more people participating in the profit. I will agree with you TTA's in one area. I do not want travel perks and I wish they would take all perks away from all RTA's.
    I am happy pointing people to my site to book their travel, selling the travel website and the tax advantages of being a business owner. I think that 99% of the RTA's do not deserve travel perks.
    I wish that was the focus. I think those people that want to sell travel other than those that just point people to the website are better of with a good host agency.

    In a perfect world as person who is in the top leadership with YTB, I can see RTA's as people who own Travel Websites and point people to book there(rather Expedia or Travelocity. REP's in YTB who sell Travel Websites and can participate in leverage just as Travelocity and Expedia do. No Travel perks for any RTA's. I do not deserve travel perks just because I have a Travel Website and sell them. This makes sense to me.

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  16. "My Team and I have sold over 1300 Travel Websites in my organization.
    There has been millions of dollars in Travel sold on these websites."

    For argument's sake, we'll say you have sold $10 million with these 1300 sites. That's a whopping average of $7700 per site. That sounds an awful lot like personal travel to me. One Alaska cruise-tour, or maybe 2 Caribbean cruises. Commissions on that are likely in the 10 - 15% range, so perhaps $1000 per site at max. Then deduct 40% of that for the YTB/RTA split, and you are left with at most $600 per site. There is no time period given, so I can't put that in monthly or even yearly terms. Let's say the average is one year. The $49.95 per month basically eats that full $600, leaving no profit at all.

    So, what's the point? It's not about selling travel, it's about selling websites and recruiting.

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  17. I don't think this is a huge revelation for anyone that knows anything about YTB. For example, Doug brags about the training program but he never mentions anything about the sale of travel products. It's always the MLM side of it and how YTB is getting vendors to train the YTB RATS. So why can't YTB hire someone to train them? I guess it would interfere with getting an autograph from "the Bonecrusher." Now that's what I call professionalism. Ann just confirmed it from the other side. Until things change and YTB offers real training which should be included in the price of the website and the monthly fee, then all is lost for those RATS.

    Anonymous said..."My Team and I have sold over 1300 Travel Websites in my organization."

    Hi Doug, so how many of those 1,300 websites are still active?

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  18. Proud To Be YTB said..."Well apparently she went to the wrong training. That is not how I do my trainings at all!"

    Then how do YOU do your trainings?

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  19. Just a quick note.I looked at my reports so far today and the following suppliers have read this post:
    Carnival
    Royal Caribbean
    McAbee Travel
    Travel Impressions
    Apple Vacations
    Globus & Cosmos
    Trafalgar
    Collette Tours
    NCL
    and a surprising entry--CLIA

    Now all I know is that the post was accessed by someone at the corporate domain, I have no way of knowing who it was that looked, but it does appear that suppliers are taking note. Good or bad!

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  20. Proud To Be YTB is always going to say that he does his meetings and training the "right" way, and everyone else does theirs the "wrong" way. The only problem with him making this statement is that he is too much of a wuss to tell anyone when and where he holds his meetings so that what he is saying can be verified. So, until the time that he does that, whatever he says holds absolutly no water. Basically, Proud To Be YTB, you are DISMISSED!

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  21. I honestly don't think that was Proud to be..someone else imitating as Proud hasn't been around the blog (that I've seen) in months.

    But John...GREAT NEWS..I hope the suppliers are reading and taking notes!! Wake up people!

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  22. Welcome back Ainsworth!

    Yes no one does it like Proud and no one will ever know because he refuses to divulge where he does his presentations...but we can all be assured that his are on the up and up! (cough cough)

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  23. John -

    I'd love to know which suppliers have looked at the post about the Help Page?

    CTA in MD

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  24. CTA--unfortunately I cannot determine that. I can see for a current day (like I did here) but older posts I can see how many people viewed it, but I need a date to refine it.

    I guess I could look at every day since it was posted and then drill down, but I am not that enthused about it!

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  25. Well how about just the day of and the day after?

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  26. My dream would be for CLIA to cut off YTB and then Carnival. I'll bet you could hear those pigs (RTAS) squealing like they were at a slaughterhouse pen. I'm not counting on CLIA making any changes since it's a cash cow for them. Money will override integrity every day.

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  27. First, Ann needs credit! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! She is the first TTA on this blog to use terminology correctly when making a distinction of RTAs and REPs. That is, RTAs are associated with YTB Travel Network, a licensed seller of travel; while REPs are associated with YourTravelBiz.com via an Independent Marketing Rep agreement in which they can market online travel agencies to prospective RTAs.

    As such, given that "Director" is a level within the YourTravelBiz.com structure, she's absolutely correct in that: "Directors don’t become Directors by selling travel, but by recruiting" because Directors don't sell travel in the first place. However, Directors are helping YTB Travel Network sell more travel as the RTA that just purchased their own travel online store will be selling to family and friends and buying from themselves. THANK YOU Ann for helping clear up this common misconception on this blog.

    If Ann, or any other person (including RTAs) attend CRTA expecting to get "Travel Training", there expectations is mistaken from the get-go and beyond the official description of what CRTA covers. Seminars, vendor conf. calls, and other events that focus purely on "travel training" are available for review in the RTAs Travel Portal accessible via the "RTA Login" button on their online travel store website.

    Here's the official description of the CRTA morning session Ann attended as posted on YourTravelBiz.com's website (Rep side). Taking out her impartial opinions, the facts of what she claims was covered appear quite correct. Although both the RTA side and REP side is covered, keep in mind CRTA is sponsored by YTB (the acronym for YourTravelBiz.com...not YTB Travel Network). Want RTA travel training...attend a YTB Travel Network sponsored event online or at a location near you.

    -----------------
    Attendees will gain first hand knowledge of how to maximize the income and benefits of their YTB business from the company leaders. Classes are taught by YTB Directors. You will learn how to:

    Earn substantial income from travel sales:

    - Put your online travel agency on autopilot
    (here's Ann's "make money while you sleep" reference...you know a 24x7 ecommerce website)
    - 10% override on all travel sold by RTAs referred by your PowerTeam Reps
    - $500 and $5000 bonuses by helping those RTAs succeed

    Save incredible amounts on your personal vacations and travel:

    - Only Certified RTAs can apply for their CLIA card
    - The proper way to ask for industry rates and upgrades
    - Where to find, and how to book FAM trips

    Dramatically and legally reduce your personal income taxes:

    - Home-based travel business tax advantages
    - Convert current personal expenses to tax deductible business expenses

    The cost of certification is $149 and comes with a 2-Way Money Back Guarantee.

    - If you are unsatisfied for any reason, tell us at the end of the certification and receive a 100% refund.
    - Personally enroll 3 RTAs who become Certified RTAs and receive a 100% reimbursement.
    -----------------

    Oh...and if you want to know how it's determined who attends...well you'll have to go and stay for both sessions to find out.

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  28. It might be a cash cow for them now. But if the downturn continues and YTB starts to go ass up, as the numbers are starting to show. What will CLIA be left with but a bunch of pissed off TTA.

    CLIA better start looking for some answers and start supporting those who have been around and will be around when YTB is just a thought.

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  29. "Want RTA travel training...attend a YTB Travel Network sponsored event online or at a location near you."

    So if it isn't Travel training, then shouldn't this be called Certified REP training???

    And if its not Travel training, why should those who take this course be able to get their CLIA card, a Travel ID card??

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  30. Why then is it a Certified RTA (YTBTN)Course if sponsored by YTB? Why does YTB Corporate require attendance at a YTB training to receive a RTA (YTBTN) card and to apply for a CLIA card which is only available to YTBTN members?

    Why is it called CERTIFIED REFERRAL TRAVEL AGENT TRAINING?

    I thought YTB was two separate companies? It seems they are only separate when it is convenient for them to be separate.

    How many times have the YTBites on this blog said "if you want to see travel training go to a CRTA event"? I have several emails I am sure from Doug imploring the same thing.

    Did the rules change? So Referring Travel Agent is no longer selling travel but recruiting and and trying to lease out websites?

    Your argument holds no water. You challenged the TTA to attend and they did and it was proven that the CERTIFIED REFERRING TRAVEL AGENT TRAINING required to get your card for all the discounts and the CLIA card is nothing more than another recruitment meeting.

    The point is proven very effectively that YTB Corporate could care less about travel as long as there is recruitment.

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  31. "CLIA better start looking for some answers and start supporting those who have been around and will be around when YTB is just a thought."

    Precisely. And, what ticked me off was that Dickinson joined YTB's board and then backed out. The fact he joined was a SLAP to all of us who supported Carnival and made it what it is today.

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  32. I put my two cents worth on scam.com:

    http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?p=524606#post524606

    http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?p=524747#post524747

    Honestly, both sides are pretty disgusting at this point.

    Ann is a problem solver.
    John's not trying to solve anything.
    Ann's motive is to expose a problem which leads to a workable solution. It's obvious she is not merely trying to destroy YTB. It's obvious John's sole desire is to destroy YTB. Ann is being forthright with her critique which can and should be used by YTB to better their YTB RTA training. John, is being downright brutal in his critiques which YTB should also use to better their RTA training.

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  33. Rod--honestly you are not in a position to talk about anyones motives. I agree 1000% with you about Ann. There are different means to an end. This blog has been a very accurate log of the daily issues with YTB.

    Sure there is a lot of opinion tossed in, isn't America great? But there is much fact as well. Seligman, Candi May, the deceiving numbers, the deceiving seminars, the outright lies, the deceptive and false advertising, and it goes on and on.

    So, in all honesty, I would prefer that you figure out what the hell it is that you want to do and come back when you can form an opinion and stick with it.

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  34. Someone asked about vendors that may have viewed the post about travel training--or lack thereof...

    http://notravelmlms.blogspot.com/2008/05/so-wheres-travel-training-again.html

    By the way if you read the agenda I posted, it definately states that the CRTA training is required to get the CRTA card and the CLIA card.

    But as to the suppliers who logged in that day or the day after (May 20-21) they are
    Apple
    RCCL
    Carnival
    McAbee
    Windstar
    American Destinations
    Expedia (interesting)
    Northstar Travel Media LLC (Travel Weekly)
    Travelport
    YTB
    Collette
    Travel Impressions

    Now they could have viewed any thread on the main page during those two days, but the threads on there were the training one and the DSA one.

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  35. I sent a copy of Ann's report to every supplier that we work with, and I hope all of you are doing the same.

    Suppliers did not start paying commissions to reward freeloaders. It's a payment for doing some work. Where is the work ethic of the people in YTB cashing the checks calling themselves travel agents?

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  36. I think Ann is correct, if the suppliers really were to witness what goes on in the "training" and not the special sessions they are invited to, they would be dropping you guys faster than you can spit!

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  37. Kate Holmes said...
    I sent a copy of Ann's report to every supplier that we work with, and I hope all of you are doing the same.

    I am, but it's too bad they won't devote the time to read Ann's diatribe of crap. It's all because money talks and bull shit walks.

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  38. OMG! My first nasty comment. "Diatribe of crap." I like that. I might have to use it in my next report to describe CRTA training.

    Oops. Did I say that? Sorry, it's late and I spent much of the day losing a battle with the Canadians over a visa...

    Thanks for the positive comments. Let me say that I want to go into these things with an open mind. But if CRTA training is about YourTravelBiz.com, then they should not be saying they are doing training on YTB Travel Network, the supposed TRAVEL AGENCY. And I'm sorry to say, but basic training on how an agency works does not include how to ask for discounts and sign up for FAMS (that's intermediate training). It DOES include a discussion on what it means to be an IC and how E&O works with relation to the IC and the host agency.

    For the anon who was at the training, I'm sorry I didn't know anyone there. I'd have been happy to have a discussion about what my issues with the session were and why you felt I was "looking" for signs. You have to remember that I've been around a long time and when I hear something that throws up a red flag, well, I pay attention. If you feel I've been unfair, I'll be happy to go to another with you.

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  39. I have found that Canadians can be very stubborn and un yielding. Even when they ultimately are wrong!

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  40. And, suppliers don't let freeloaders go on fam trips either.

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  41. ---unfortunately, they do and that is a part of this problem!

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  42. "--unfortunately, they do and that is a part of this problem!"

    I was being sarcastic John. ;-) If the suppliers would actually put sales quotas in place for fam trips you wouldn't have the problem.

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  43. John, in responce to:

    Rod--honestly you are not in a position to talk about anyones motives. I agree 1000% with you about Ann. There are different means to an end. This blog has been a very accurate log of the daily issues with YTB.

    Sure there is a lot of opinion tossed in, isn't America great? But there is much fact as well. Seligman, Candi May, the deceiving numbers, the deceiving seminars, the outright lies, the deceptive and false advertising, and it goes on and on.

    So, in all honesty, I would prefer that you figure out what the hell it is that you want to do and come back when you can form an opinion and stick with it.

    "Well what I want to do is leave all my options on the table."

    That's also what's great about America. I haven't burned bridges except in FL.

    As far as what I said about you that was strictly my opinion, and I admit it was judgmental, albeit, it's based on my 8 months of knowledge of debating on the boards.

    People are either problem solvers or part of the problem.

    You are not part of the YTB problem, but you part of the antagonism problem YTB is experiencing. So, you are not, and I agree with you it's not your job, trying to fix YTB. You are wanting YTB exterminated. Ann, on the other hand, and this is my opinion based on my knowledge of her from the debates, is on the telling like it is and let the chips fall where they may side of the debate. This is what I call a problem solver and I respect her for that.

    I've figured out what I want to do so I'm back.

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  44. From a comment I read yesterday, I would not be so sure that the only bridges you burnt were in Florida.

    You are indeed entitled to your opinion, and you ought to be thankful that this blog allows them to be expressed and not SUPRESSED and edited and moderated.

    I do not want YTB exterminated at all. I have said many times I believe there is a place for them in the travel industry, but some things (I feel) need to change and that is what this blog is all about. I am highlighting, demonstrating, and proving what is wrong with the MLM model.The issue is that YTB and others are too arrogant as you have pointed out.

    I honestly do not see Ann and I as too far apart in our intent; but you do. Maybe you can find a good upline and recruit her,she would be a good coup for you to recruit don't you think? I can put you in touch with her if you like and she agrees.

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  45. Hello, I am a currently a part-time YTB RTA and I so far I enjoy the different parts of the business that YTB offers. First off, let me say that I admire Ann for at least taking time from her busy day to attend one of our CRTA Trainings and I have great respect for TTA's and hopefully we can work along side each other just like they have with the presence of Expedia, Travelocity, etc. Around 70-80% of people that I speak to when I am traveling book there own travels online and not via a TTA. That is my target market so I am not taking business away from any TTA as they didn't have it to begin with. I work both of the Travel and Marketing side of my business. I do a lot of travel, therefore I am around a lot of others who travel and I pass my business cards out to everyone I come in contact with and have slowly built my Travel business this way. I get people booking on my site that I don't even remember speaking to. I have them calling me weeks or months later asking me to book their group vacations. And I gladly do this for them as the commission is very good compared to just air and hotel. The marketing side is done through those I find that have interest looking at other options of enhancing there current income or are just simply open minded to other opportunities. No pressure is involved. There is a third business that YTB offers that no one has mentioned here and that is our Passport To Giving program (http://www.passport2giving.com) for Non-profit organizations. I also participate in this to help organizations in their funding and am doing very well with this part of the business as well. I look at it this way, $495.00 (one time fee) plus $49.95/mo to start your own business where I have three different options to make some money. An investment of $1,044.45 for the first year and the home-based business tax advantages. It makes sense to me IMO. I've easily spent that kind of money in a month for useless things that provide no ROI.
    I've attended the CRTA and have both my RTA and my CLIA credentials. In addition to attending the CRTA and passing a test, you also have to sell a minimum of $1,500 in "non-personal" travel to qualify for the RTA credentials and a minimum of $2,500 in "non-personal" travel to qualify for the CLIA credentials plus a CLIA training course/test from the CLIA website.

    I also had to take a Passport To Giving training course in order for me to be certified as a "Funding Specialist" to pursue the Non-profit organization business. Do all of these trainings and certifications cost money? YES! It's the cost of doing business and I have no issues with this because I am serious about this business and so far the returns far out-weigh the investments.

    I've also been to an all day travel training(for free)sponsored by YTB in my area with vendors from Holland America, Collette Vacations and Spring Tours International. About 1,200 RTA's and guests attended. Last night I was on a YTB Travel conference call with Kim Sorenson, Pres, and CEO, YTB and Mike Julius, Regional Vice Presiden of Carnival Cruise Line. Learned alot and let me just say that Carnival and YTB are not going separate ways anytime soon! In addition to pointing travelers to my website, I've also taken the time to book group vacations directly with vendors. Let me just say that the vendors welcome my YTB business and have all been respectful, helpful and very patient to help a beginner that wants to learn the business.

    The training is there folks, in our marketing and travel back office of our sites. I agree that alot of people get into this business looking to get-rich-quick. Most fail with this approach. But can it happen? It is possible. If you have what it takes then work the marketing side and WORK IT HARD! Because that is the only way it can happen. It will not be easy but at least the company offers a business model that has been around for many years where you can achieve financial freedom unlike most traditional businesses. I always like to have a Plan B to anything I do. And for now I like my plan B and all the options that YTB offers and it works well for me and most of my downline. Sorry for the long post and I wish everyone the best on whatever venture they decide to pursue without personal judgment. Make it a Great Day!

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  46. Boy did you cut and paste that from a presentation or something?

    I am not saying YTB and CCL are splitting, but do you honestly think that Julius woudl divulge that on a conference call to you guys?

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  47. This is simply my story, my own experience and of course I would have expected someone to find fault in it. I didn't personally single you out but simply was stating that there are a great deal of training that YTB and its vendors offer to educate us in this business. Travel and marketing. Make it a Great Day!

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  48. Peter Stilphen, MCC writes

    Ann should be very proud of herself as I am of Ann. She verified the many problems with the MLMs that is plaguing out travel industry. As serious Travel Professionals, we must continue to speak out for the individual travel professional by continuing to push our travel suppliers and CLIA to increase their standards and requirements for their Fams and other incentive programs.

    CLIA is the biggest culprit of all. If we can convince CLIA to do the right thing,the many perks now available to all these pseudo agents will dry up and the so called CRTAs and other similar designations will disappear from the travel agent scene. The way we do this is to continuously talk and write to suppliers especially all those connected with the cruise lines. Hilton, Choice, Best Western and all the hotels should follow Marriott's lead.

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