About a month ago, I was in the local Wawa (7-11 ish store) and picked up a RTA card off the community bulletin board. In the interest of getting a different point of view (face it, the YTB points of view are getting old on here) on YTB. I sent him an email asking a few questions about the business. It was not confrontational at all. Just curious. I explained that I may be doing a freelance column but was not sure of the assignment yet.
Here is his response:
Hmmm, i wouldnt mind answering those questions. However its hard to trust that i would remain anonymous do to the fact that im not sure if i can leagaly tell you my opinion . I dont represent the company as a whole so im not sure how valuble my opinion will be. I may , in the future , answer the other questions in further detail ,however, i can tell you this. I feel that it is a great company IF people have time to put energy into it. Since i have been buisy with work, i have not had time to do so and from that you can guess the conclusion. I would recommend anyone who is willing to put effort into ytb to join. I dont feel that it can be profitable any other way, as with other multi leve marketing companies. Bottom line, you get what you give. there are those that think it is a scam but it is not. peace, Aaron p.s. And yes i would love to see the article, that would be cool. I also like to write :) though my grammar is very poor :(Fair enough. I followed it up with some additional questions and assured him that he could remain as a "first name" or a "no name". Here was the response:
hey, i quit ytb this week, i thought i would let you know.
Wow, in under a week! Well, I followed up and asked why. I specifically asked if it was due to his lack of available time to put into the business. Here was his response:
yes, me and my mother joined. we were just under the impression that it wouldnt be as hard as it was, and also, our team power leader said she would give us some of the people she got to join, she never did. All in all, i wish i was more informed about what kind of work it takes to get the ball rolling , instead, i was given the illusion that anyone could become successfull with YTB. The truth is that its not for everyone. Im upset that together, my mother and I spent about two thousand dollars on the company , and i think i recieved a check for 9.00 . Thats not a very good investment. it makes me upset every time i think about it. sincerely, Aaron
Now, in a time of about two weeks, YTB went from a company that he would recommend to "anyone" to a company that "makes him upset" every time he thinks about it.
Wow. He knew you needed to work the company to make it work. He gave it two years (is this sounding familiar Rodney?) and after $2000 he received $9. While I am sure he could have put more effort into it, he does state that his PTL offered to help him but never did. He says he was given the "illusion" anyone could be successful...is this sounding at all like a theme on this blog?
Here is a guy that knew he had to work it to make it work. Here is a guy that had faith in YTB and the promise of success. Here is a guy who spent $2000 to chase that dream. Here is a guy that received $9 for his efforts.
I am sure his story is repeated tens of thousands of times over in the RTA community. Putting good money after bad into a flawed program that will only benefit those on top of the pyramid and the owners.
So go ahead Doug, Ole, Mix, Proud, Anon and all the pro-YTBers...get it over with and trash this "looser".
Ah how quickly we go from blindly in love to total disillusionment. Sad isn't it?
ReplyDeleteWell we have always said if you are not going to put effort into it, you are not going to get anything ouyt of it.
ReplyDeleteI am not going to call him a loser, but he certainly did not give it a fair shake. And his particular situation may be different.
But there are now over 150,000 RTAs that are VERY happy with YTB and making money and (in a lot of cases) more importantly reaping HUGE HUGE tax breaks because of it.
If we lose one or two, that is ok, because of our growth.
"over 150,000 RTAs that are VERY happy with YTB and making money"
ReplyDeleteActually if you read the YTB reports, only about 80% of all RTA's make any money at all, the rest make nothing.
That lowers your 150,000 to around 30,000; and I believe that number is high...I'm sure there are links on here pointing to the actual reports.
Yikes! That should read "only 20% make any money at all" (80% make nothing...)
ReplyDeleteFunny, my uncle says he LOVES YTB because he doesn't have to do anything. He just drops his business card off, restrooms, restaurants, gas stations, wherever and "REAPS" the rewards. He also refuses to say how much money he has gotten. All we get is that he has gotten a "few" checks. Yeah ok. Maybe he is one of those closet "millionairs", that most of the YTB people on this blog claim to be? I'd love to know how much he has lost, because I know it is quite a bit. If he was making thousands and thousands, I'm sure he would throw it in my face.
ReplyDelete"I am not going to call him a loser, but he certainly did not give it a fair shake. And his particular situation may be different. "
ReplyDeleteWhat?? Two years isn't giving it a fair shake?? Ok, so you tell us then-how long does someone have to stay in, and how much money do they have to lose before you would qualify them as "giving it a fair shake" ?
Kate:
ReplyDelete"Aaron" never said he was in the business for two years. John did, but, that's only "assuming" how long based on the $2K invested.
I wonder if John can provide the documentation to back up 2 years?
On another note:
I find it interesting that all of you feel this one example, and Rodney of course represent the entire company?
Are you promoting that ALL RTA's feel this way with 130-150K of us still working the business with just two examples in 9 months?
There are many more than just two out there. Just like the "rogue" RTAs, as you YTBers claim everytime one pops up, "It's only one or two". Funny thing is they keep popping up over and over. Just go to Craigs and take a look around, there are many more "rogue" agents, and MANY unhappy people in YTB.
ReplyDeleteI think Aaron's story is common to YTB considering the drop out rate and the fact that so few of the 150,000 (135,000?) make any money at all. Susan, of scam.com fame, is another...altho she said she brought in 10 grand during her tenure with YTB. Selling travel was just too much work and she didn't have the skills or desire to do better. She has another MLM love now.
ReplyDeleteAaron doesn't come accross as much of a recruiter so really he was doomed from the start.
YTB scam is right. Everytime there is a drop-out or a false ad, you guys claim it's only one or two. But then when the official earnings claims come out, they show that over 80% of your 135,000 members aren't making jack. So are you now stating that the earnings reports from your office are false?
ReplyDeleteYTBscam......you need to have John write him a response to his business card which "John, just happened to pick up at the local 7-11" (not sure if they have WaWa's where your Uncle lives ;-) and have him ask. Oh that might be kind of interesting.
ReplyDeleteand to the YTB'ers...we knew you'd respond the way you did. "Aww, poor thing, must have been some other particular circumstances!!" No, the poor fella was just being realistic, practical and felt hugely duped, WHICH HE WAS!! MLM sucks!!
Hey, I resemble that remark.
ReplyDeleteI will only focus on two areas in response in a moment.
ReplyDeleteConvincing the TTA throng that ANYONE is making money in YTB is similar to saying something positive about George Bush to a liberal.
The viseral hatred spews out and it is a lost cause.
It is obvious that the former RTA was never shown the tax advantages of a home business.
If this former RTA has a job outside of YTB, then it is unfortunate that his sponsor or leader did not explain simple home business deductions.
If he is umemployed and looking to YTB full-time, then he started off on the wrong foot from Day 1.
If, indeed, he is employed, he missed out on a few thousand dollars in tax savings per year.
In addition, waiting for a leader to "put people under you" is a recipe for failure.
The leader should not have led him on with that promise and I fault the sponsor or leader.
I will not at all call him a loser.
Looks like the help was lacking from above.
One last caviot . . .
It is hilarious to watch the TLs and Kates of the TTA world (and the ytbscams of the welfare world)
A tale of woe from a YTB RTA brings the images of a fresh kill in the wild.
The carnivors all pounce on the kill and ravage the carcas.
There is blood all over.
JF discovered a "fresh kill" for the TTAs.
They got their bloody YTB meal for the day.
Should be enough carcas left for a few more TTAs to chew on the bones today.
YTB and TRAVEL: A Great Mix!
Umm I havent even posted until now, so how am I pouncing on the fresh kill?
ReplyDeleteI feel sorry for people like the person above. I don't consider them "loosers" I consider them duped into something that was doomed from the start. They are lied to and manipulated into thinking one way to get the Rep the sale..then set free on their own with no help. This is not the 1st or 2nd times we've seen it..you may all claim that but its not. Be realistic for once. Honestly how much do any of you PERSONALLY make on TRAVEL SALES..not being a rep, not tax advantages and the excess BS..actual travel sales? Most likely not enough to survive.
Typical Mix,
ReplyDeleteJust deflect and turn to insults. I have a job, and I work. And I can tell you I make alot more than most people in YTB other than the top of the pyramid. Mix you can't answer questions, and when it comes down to it, you just insult. What a joke you are, you are the perfect fit for YTB. As far as welfare goes, never been on it and never will. I have alot more faith in my work ethic than most in YTB will ever think about. Most of you just want to sit at home and not do a damn thing. That's the truth.
YTB and FAKE TANS: A Bad Mix!
"Convincing the TTA throng that ANYONE is making money in YTB is similar to saying something positive about George Bush to a liberal."
ReplyDeleteThe statistics come from YTB's own published reports.....on their own website!!!
No convincing needed, its there in black and white. Less than 20% of all RTA's make any money at all. 80% of all RTA's make $0.00...
Mix-Do you not understand your SEC Filings? Obviously, you don't. I really think you are either Math challenged or incredibly naive. Hey, let's add probable mental issues as well. Trading one addiction for another. It's right there that 80% don't make money.
ReplyDeleteAs for the poor guy's leader it is obvious they didn't help him. All your leaders care about is recruiting and the heck with mentoring or helping someone.
YTB is a very poor business model, few make money and the leaders are too busy scratching each others eyes out and focused on recruiting more and more and making money they don't care.
"Selling travel was just too much work and she didn't have the skills or desire to do better."
And, I love this quote above from one of your fellow YTB people. Yes, selling travel is hard. DUH! And, you need skills to do it. DUH! That's what we have been saying all along and you still don't get it.
YTB and Travel an absurd Mix.
Mixed Up keeps harping on the tax advantages...someone is going to get badly burned by taking Mixed Ups advice over that of a bona fide tax preparer. Does Mixed advise his people to take a home office deduction when there is no dedicated home office (kitchen table?) and write off computer expenses (the pc MUST be used solely for YTB, no homework, no net surfing)etc? Sure you can write off the magnetic signs, stationary and working lunches but you have to be able to BUY all that stuff first. From that last post Mixed Up seems to think the tax deductions are the ONLY benefit to joining YTB now. The guys reaching. The only 'advantage' to joining YTB is the ability to lose money and enrich the top.
ReplyDeleteNot harping, eddie.
ReplyDeleteJust the facts.
No tax advice from you needed, eddie.
Stick to service fees.
Many more benefits from YTB then simply tax advantages.
But home business deductions are available for most anyone to take advantage of.
It's why I laugh when people say that they are "losing" money with YTB.
$49.95 per month.
Tax advantages alone are 5 to 10 times more than that.
It's a great country!
By the way, ytbscam.
YOU . . . complaining about being "insulted"?
Insults are all you do on this blog.
You certainly are clueless when it comes to YTB or TTAs.
YTB and TRAVEL: A Great Mix!
Mix is not wrong with tax savings. However, I recommend to all of my RTAs to seek out professional tax advice. The poster makes a point about some deductions do requiire an expense. But, here are a few money in your pocket deductions. I had a cell phone bill of 175 dollars each month (my wife and my family plan) NOw, I dedcut half the bill. For the first 3 months I tracked the calls, about 60% were YTB, so since I did not want to track for every month, my CPA (who by the way is my father and now an RTA) told me that with the inital tracking that was sufficient evidence. So, with the attempt to make income, my cell phone deduction is about $1000 per year. That is approximately $300 in tax savings annually in my bracket on that one item alone.
ReplyDeleteNow, with mileage. Admittedly gas is expenseive but I can fill up my minivan at 75 bucks. I get 400 miles to the tank. It is a leased vehicle so, long term wear and tear is not an issue, The IRS allows 50.5 cents per mile, so my gas expense of 75 bucks generates me a tax deduction of 200 bucks. Following so far???
Now, on my break from my regular job I go and eat lunch...i had been doing it every day for years before YTB, now I make it a point to chat and exchange info the the person sitting next to me. (it is in a business environmentso lunch time is almost always single diners) The IRS allows me to deduct "50% of business meeting expenses" Well, I drove my car to the restaurant AND now I deduct half my lunch."
All in the PURSUIT of income.
So, Aaron from JOhn's post even though only received a check for $9 , both he and his mom could report loses with the IRS. Those loses are not just the money they put into YTB, and would likely seriously offset their other income (jobs etc)
By the way, before you jump on the mileage thing, I am specifically talking about going to meetings and other events. I do not deduct 15,000 miles each year.
Mix, do you realize that in almost all your replies lately all you have really positive to say is about tax advantages of being in YTB. Seems to me that the program isn't as appealing as tax advantages. Have you found that these advantages are now the only way you can sell this to others? Hope too many don't get burnt by the IRS!
ReplyDeleteTax advantages are one of the "perks" of YTB. If they couldn't claim them, there would be many more "LOSERS" in YTB. So do those in YTB that deduct their loses claim to be making money in YTB? That's a good question and should be looked into. So how many of those 20% that make a little money, lose a ton, claim the loses on their taxes, get a check for $5 for the year and claim it as positive income. I think the loses could be alot higher than 80% when you think about it.
ReplyDeleteOH MY THIS JUST IN! Hrmmm seems like Carnival is slowly pulling away from the mills and going back to the TTA...imagine that!
"CEO says Carnival to rely more on travel agents"
CEO says Carnival to rely more on travel agents
Carnival Chairman and CEO Micky Arison said during a second-quarter earnings call this week that the cruise line will continue to reduce its direct business practices and increase its reliance on travel agents for sales. "I think it's very important to state that the travel agency distribution system has been an effective and efficient distribution system for this company for 35 years, and it got us to where we are," Arison said. "So we clearly believe that we need to continue to support them [travel agents] and they have shown this year they can give us the yield improvements we need to overcome at least partially the higher fuel costs."
Your carnival post is making a big assumption. Keep in mind that Carnival nowhere in that statement said anything about mills, but about direct booking which means people going to carnival.com or calling carnival DIRECT.
ReplyDeleteUsing YTB to book Carnival would be considered using a travel agent.
I am sure Carnival is more than happy with the group of 96 cabins I put together for them.
"Many more benefits from YTB then simply tax advantages."
ReplyDeleteExactly what I previously said.
And there are.
Simply pointing out to my "good friends from the other side of the aisle" the following . . .
Those of us who understand tax advantages from a home business laugh about the tales of woe from TTAs who say they are losing money with their YTB business.
Yes, we always recommend consulting a tax professional.
But only one who understands home business deductions.
I am glad there are those of you who feel the need to pay more taxes than you need to.
Your government appreciates your benevolence.
YTB and TRAVEL: A Great Mix!
"Now, with mileage. Admittedly gas is expenseive but I can fill up my minivan at 75 bucks. I get 400 miles to the tank. It is a leased vehicle so, long term wear and tear is not an issue, The IRS allows 50.5 cents per mile, so my gas expense of 75 bucks generates me a tax deduction of 200 bucks. Following so far???"
ReplyDeleteFollowing yes, however, you can only deduct the BUSINESS part of your total gas expense - unless you can PROVE that your minivan is dedicated 100% to BUSINESS.
This is what is eventually going to bite those taking YTB tax "advantages".....
People in YTB are NOT..Travel Agents. You are websale and recruiting agents. NOT a TA! Since most of you book your OWN travel, how does that make you a TA? Anyone can go to Travelocity, Orbitz, Expedia and do the SAME exact thing you claim to do.
ReplyDeleteYTB and CONFUSED EMPLOYEES! A Bad Mix!
80% of RTas make nothing. Zero. But they are paying for that privledge.
ReplyDeleteNow, if that same RTA joined a REAL host, and paid nothing to do so, they would still be able to deduct any expenses ( cell phone for calling home, milage to go to the store and pin up a card etc.) and STILL come out more profitably than joining YTB.
I know of one host looking for new members and I think I will suggest using the tax advantages and lower cost to raid YTBs RTA membership.
I mean why PAY YTB for a tax break when you can get one for free?
Joe,
ReplyDeleteThanks for not reading this part of my post about mileage...
By the way, before you jump on the mileage thing, I am specifically talking about going to meetings and other events. I do not deduct 15,000 miles each year.
YTBSCAM,
ReplyDeletePeopple in YTB may not be TAs but YTB itself is a travel agency and that is what Carnival is happy to do business with.
John said, "So go ahead Doug, Ole, Mix, Proud, Anon and all the pro-YTBers...get it over with and trash this "looser"."
ReplyDeleteNo reason to trash a person who has decided to quit any MLM company because he is just too "busy".
Please note what John said about Aaron. John said, "Now, in a time of about two weeks, YTB went from a company that he would recommend to "anyone" to a company that "makes him upset" every time he thinks about it.
I will address this a bit later.
Aaron said, "I feel that it is a great company IF people have time to put energy into it. Since i have been busy with work, i have not had time to do so and from that you can guess the conclusion.
Aaron clearly stated that YTB was a "great company"..he was "busy with work"..did "not have the time". "Conclusion"? How is it possible to be successful in any MLM business, no matter what it is, if you are faced with Aaron's circumstances? You can't fault YTB for that, and Aaron does not. He said, "Bottom line, you get what you give."
Next we see Aaron has,"..quit ytb this week,.."
Aaron said, "yes, me and my mother joined. we were just under the impression that it wouldnt be as hard as it was..."
What? Didn't you just tell JF a week before, "I would recommend anyone who is willing to put effort into ytb to join."
Aaron was fully aware working with YTB would require, as he put it..
1 - "Energy"
2 - "Effort"
3 - "Giving"
Aaron said,..."and also, our team power leader said she would give us some of the people she got to join, she never did."
Aaron, dude, you were only in YTB TWO WEEKS. Is it possible your PT leader didn't see any of the above, namely..Energy..Effort..Giving? PT leaders typically will match "energy with energy". You just didn't have it pal..not your fault..you were, as you said, just too "busy with work".
Aaron said, "All in all, i wish i was more informed about what kind of work it takes to get the ball rolling.."
Your PT leader should have been helping you with this. My PT did not. It took self determination for me to get busy and find out what I needed to do to get "the ball rolling". That comes down to #2.."Effort". Did you read Coach's Play Book? It's all there.
Aaron said, "instead, i was given the illusion that anyone could become successfull with YTB.
You said you were "given the illusion"..but none of us know what was told to you so that is not possible to address. However, in you first email to John, you didn't mention the word "illusion". Instead you admitted it would take "energy", "effort", and "giving" to make your business successful. Were those "illusions"? I doubt it.
Aaron said, "The truth is that its not for everyone.
True. Scott Tomer, in our business meetings, has often stated something like this..."If you like our business model, we invite you to join us. If you don't.. please don't join us." Aaron is right.."it's not for everyone".
Aaron said, "Im upset that together, my mother and I spent about two thousand dollars on the company , and i think i recieved a check for 9.00 . Thats not a very good investment.
The mans been in the company for a full TWO WEEKS and only made $9.00.
Now I'm sure JF and all his kind think this is terrible and will sympathize with you whole heatedly. But the fact is, you are in business, with $2K of tax deductible start up costs for you and mom. And, this causes you to quit after only TWO WEEKS?!!!! Oh, I keep forgetting what you first said, how you were really "busy with work". Sorry, I keep forgetting that part of the story.
Aaron said, "it makes me upset every time i think about it. sincerely, Aaron"
Aaron, you would have the right to be "upset" if you gave it your all..again repeating what you said was required, and only after giving yourself permission to work it 6 months.
1 - "Energy"
2 - "Effort"
3 - "Giving
Since you didn't do the above and quit after only two weeks..yes..you can be upset, but their is NO justification for it.
So go ahead John, Scam, Kate, TL, Anon and all the anti-YTBers...get it over with and trash OleScore. ;>)
OleScorekeeper
I think what's coming down the line with CCL is that they will no longer accept net payments. This will be interesting to say the least - those self-bookers are using their YTB membership to buy their own cruises at net are going to have to scrape up the full amount and then receive only 60% back - later - of whatever percentage commission YTB get for them. It'll still be a break for them, but not quite as nice.
ReplyDeleteOle, he was in YTB TWO years, not 2 weeks.
ReplyDeleteNo comment about my great idea for the host to raid YTBs RTAs?
Ole----better check that scorekeeping clock of yours.
ReplyDeleteThe emails were two weeks apart. I think (and I am not sure but will recheck the emails he sent me) he said he had been in it for two years.
But he most definitely was in more than two weeks!
Ole,
ReplyDeleteYou did have some great points, but the misread of the 2 weeks hurt your statement, IMO.
I also don't understand how in 2 weeks the guy turns around from correctly admitting that it takes energy and effort that he just couldn't do because of work, to saying that there awas some grand illusion.
Ole can't read John. LOL!
ReplyDelete"But home business deductions are available for most anyone to take advantage of."
One of these days the IRS is going to get all of you RTA's. If you think it won't happen think again.
Aaron did not say he was in YTB for two years. I believe it was John who made that comment.
ReplyDeleteApparently John gave us the edited version of Aaron's emails. If so.. why, may I ask?
Even so, I find the tone of his two week apart emails rather curious, and as John put it...
"Now, in a time of about two weeks, YTB went from a company that he would recommend to "anyone" to a company that "makes him upset" every time he thinks about it."
Something smells real fishy about his two week change of heart.
Even so, the remarks from the OleScorekeeper to Aaron still apply.
OleScorekeeper
From the IRS:
ReplyDeleteHow Do You Report Suspected Tax Fraud Activity?
If you suspect or know of an individual or company that is not complying with the tax laws, you may report this activity by completing Form 3949-A. You may fill out Form 3949-A online, print it and mail it to:
Internal Revenue Service
Fresno, CA 93888
If you do not wish to use Form 3949-A, you may send a letter to the address above. Please include the following information, if available:
*
Name and address of the person you are reporting
*
The taxpayer identification number (social security number for an individual or employer identification number for a business)
*
A brief description of the alleged violation, including how you became aware of or obtained the information
*
The years involved
*
The estimated dollar amount of any unreported income
*
Your name, address and daytime telephone number
Although you are not required to identify yourself, it is helpful to do so. Your identity can be kept confidential.
So many many people accuse YTB of tax fraud, and of course it is not YTB but their members so YTb will have to open up their membership files to the IRS....wow this could take years!
ReplyDelete"So we clearly believe that we need to continue to support them [travel agents] and they have shown this year they can give us the yield improvements we need to overcome at least partially the higher fuel costs."
ReplyDeleteYTBSCAM...OH MY THIS JUST IN! Hrmmm seems like Carnival is slowly pulling away from the mills and going back to the TTA...imagine that!
You ignorant moron trying to play travel agent. You don't know what the hell your talking about concerning the Carnival statement. If I explained it, you still wouldn't get it. Your posting a lot garbage today. What, not a Fryday at MC'ds today?
John has an "obsession" with YTB - his self-made demon. He wastes a lot of his time and energy w/blogs, e-mails and what all else he does to fight his arch enemy. But I really don't get why he wastes so much time (time is money -especially the amount all the TTA's claim they make) on such a losing, fraudulent and inconsequential company. Sounds like his passion is "WHINING", "MEAN-SPIRITEDNESS" and "NEVER-ENDING ARROGANCE". I crown you KING JOHN! (in your own little self-absorbed world.)
ReplyDelete"YTBSCAM...OH MY THIS JUST IN! Hrmmm seems like Carnival is slowly pulling away from the mills and going back to the TTA...imagine that!"
ReplyDeleteAnonymous, before you call someone an ignorant moron read the Trades or look online. Then again, we all know YTB people can't read and have zero comprehension.
"John has an "obsession" with YTB - his self-made demon. He wastes a lot of his time and energy w/blogs, e-mails and what all else he does to fight his arch enemy. But I really don't get why he wastes so much time (time is money -especially the amount all the TTA's claim they make) on such a losing, fraudulent and inconsequential company. Sounds like his passion is "WHINING", "MEAN-SPIRITEDNESS" and "NEVER-ENDING ARROGANCE". I crown you KING JOHN! (in your own little self-absorbed world.)"
ReplyDeleteAnd, you all can't handle the truth that only 80% make money. You can't handle the truth that YTB is a bad business model.
Maybe when the IRS knocks on your door and you can't pay your bills because you make squat from YTB will you wise up....
YTB and Travel an Absurd Mix.
Someone please show me where that Carnival statement has anything to do with "mills".
ReplyDeleteQuestions for John regarding Aaron and his mother.
ReplyDeleteWhen did mother and son join YTB and which one was the RTA..and which one was the REP?
Aaron said, "my mother and I spent about two thousand dollars on the company"
Interesting, $2000. Two RTA's would amount to a minimum of $3395 NOT including any magazine's, tools, or CRTA training.
If they were both in YTB for 24 months, then they were not both RTA's. So, who was the RTA? Since a REP joins without cost, there is little motivation for them to work their business. From the tone of his emails, I suspect Aaron was most likely the REP.
One last point. Today's topic for discussion could have just as easily been about someone quitting Mary Kay, Herbalife, Prepaid Legal, and every last network marketing company out there. Just a thought.
OleScorekeeper
Not sure Ole. I assumed that the two of them agreed (not contractually) to be in YTB and together they worked as a team.
ReplyDeleteThe first year for a rep with ZERO other expenses other than YTB is $1100. Toss in a Funshine, business cards, and attending classes and $2000 is VERY easily spent!
John, with all of your knowledge of YTB it still amazes me that you think that there is ANY expense for a REP.
ReplyDeleteI ordered 3500 business cards 16 months ago for 79 bucks from a local printing company (2 sides glossy-nice). Still have a box of 1000 left
I don't understand that comment? Reps do have expenses. The Success Magazine, The DVD of the Month, business cards, domain names, the cost for the auto responders, the costs for the rooms to host the recruiting meetings, and if you are not hosting them the cost to attend them. Throw in the convention and more.
ReplyDeleteBoth Reps and RTAs in order to be even remotely successful have a fairly large amount of additional expenses to incur
What a deal
ReplyDelete<3500 two sided business cards, on glossy format for only $79.00.>
Wow, give us the name of that printer I'll give him a ton of business!
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteJohn has an "obsession" with YTB - his self-made demon. He wastes a lot of his time and energy w/blogs, e-mails and what all else he does to fight his arch enemy. But I really don't get why he wastes so much time (time is money -especially the amount all the TTA's claim they make) on such a losing, fraudulent and inconsequential company. Sounds like his passion is "WHINING", "MEAN-SPIRITEDNESS" and "NEVER-ENDING ARROGANCE". I crown you KING JOHN! (in your own little self-absorbed world.)
I believe it may be due to a grandiose vision that came to John sometime before 911 hit. He was to have owned 10 agencies by the end of this next year or so. According to an interview article about John that Doug posted, John had 2 agencies and he lost one because of 911. Needless to say he never recovered. Ten years are nearly up and he owns only one B&M going for him if I am correct. Perhaps this may be one of the reasons he spends so much time and effort obsessing and trashing MLM travel companies. It truly is a sad commentary on what one does with his life. But, we cannot pass judgement on the man. He is free to do as he wishes as long as certain lines are not crossed.
Well, gee John don't you know that the hotels give those rooms that they use to YTB for free? NOT! What a bunch of idiots thinking they have no expenses. Love to see those cheapie business cards too. Who do you use printers r us?
ReplyDeleteI don't know John personally, but I'd say he's been pretty successful over the years in the travel industry.
ReplyDeleteAnything you YTBers say sounds like sour grapes to me. But, if you dump YTB and get out there and actually work, and work hard, in the biz many of you could have successful careers as well.
No one envies your place in YTB.
I think if you CAN'T make it in this biz, either as an agent, agency owner or on the supplier side, YTB is where you end up. Maybe no one else will have you.
You know, I'm begining to think that JF may have put one over on us. I think Aaron is the old columnist himself! Is that possible?
ReplyDeleteTime for a little triva. Who said the following?
ReplyDelete"I like visiting palces overseas, like Canada."
karla said...
ReplyDelete"I don't know John personally, but I'd say he's been pretty successful over the years in the travel industry."
Learjet, Gulfstream, Hawker Jet. Which one did you say he gets around in?
Time for a little triva. Who said the following?
ReplyDelete"I like visiting palces overseas, like Canada."
What is a palce?
Airbus 380
ReplyDeleteI'm jsut wondering what everyone's idea of "success" is? I don't think a Lear Jet is necessarily it, nor is owning 10 Agencies (I wouldn't want to) or employing more than 25 people.
ReplyDeleteI live in (own) a home valued at $1.2 mil (that is the tax assessment and frankly, because of where it is, I could sell it in 5 days for more than that even in the current economy), and basically live a very good life. I work, my husband works. I have no desire to own an Agency - he's already owned and sold one Engineering Firm and no longer wishes to own his own. He currently works for someone else. We both have advance degrees. We consider ourselves "successful".
Is John "successful" - I'd say he probably is. Owns an Agency, gets paid for columns, owns a home, etc....
Anonymous said..."Your carnival post is making a big assumption. Keep in mind that Carnival nowhere in that statement said anything about mills, but about direct booking which means people going to carnival.com or calling carnival DIRECT.
ReplyDeleteUsing YTB to book Carnival would be considered using a travel agent.
I am sure Carnival is more than happy with the group of 96 cabins I put together for them."
This is very interesting. 96 cabins in a group booking? Today our Carnival sales rep visited the office and I hadn't read this blog yet. I read it, saw this claim and called my rep, Joy Kalek. She checked for me and there has not been a group booking placed from any single YTB agent with a group of this size EVER. Maybe that is why the post is from someone anonymous because they don't want to be called out.
YTB and TRAVEL: Will the lies ever stop?!!
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI'm jsut wondering what everyone's idea of "success" is? We both have advance degrees.
Well my idea of success would be spelling correctly, holding an "advance" degree, and flying my Learjet anywhere I want to!
martha "there has not been a group booking placed from any single YTB agent with a group of this size EVER."
ReplyDeleteOh crud, is this going to turn into another Candi May never owned a travel agency caper? We all know how that ended.
Who said the following?
ReplyDelete"I like visiting places overseas, like Canada."
Britany Speres
Anonymous said..."martha "there has not been a group booking placed from any single YTB agent with a group of this size EVER."
ReplyDeleteOh crud, is this going to turn into another Candi May never owned a travel agency caper? We all know how that ended."
I never said Candi didn't own an agency. Keep that in mind. I still never received any information from Candi or Doug regarding the 3 agencies she owned. I accepted the IATAN card copy as proof because I stated that I could not find her listed with IATAN and and so I apologized. Let me make something very, very clear on this matter and then I will put it to rest once and for all. I did not pursue the other issues because it's pointless and nearly everyone embellishes their resumes. If you will go back and read the posts that were not by me, you will find numerous requests from others asking for her awards and the names of her agencies. They were never provided. Enough said on the subject and I don't care any longer because I was proven wrong. When I'm wrong, I'm wrong and I will admit it. I did just that.
To address the Carnival 96 cabin bookings, you yourself can contact the Carnvial rep or probably any Carnival rep and they will verify what I posted. So rather than question me, I suggest you take that action this time and you prove me wrong. That is one reason I posted the name of the Carnival rep. OK?
I don't understand why you have such a hard time believing that this guy had a change of attitude towards YTB in two weeks. How many of you have met someone, or started something that you initially thought was great, only to realize that it wasn't what you thought it was a short time later?
ReplyDeleteEverytime we post something pertaining to a YTBer dropping out, you guys claim it has to be something that John is making up.
I have seen a lot of the stuff that John posts as well as it sources, and it's stuff that people actually send to him. As much time as it takes to write the posts for this blog, there is hardly time to create ficticious people and stories to go along with it. And since there are so many real failures and scandals, there is really no reason to make it up.
You don't have to look very far to find hundreds of people who are disillusioned with their mlm. It happens every day! You also don't have to look very far to find a totally deceptive advertising regarding the income claims for YTB, or a YTB claiming to have booked 96 cabins or Jenna Bush's honeymoon.
Sometimes things don't work out. Jobs, relationships, pets, a new haircut, or even joining an MLM like YTB. Why is that so freaking hard for you to admit??
I, likewise, consider myself to be a success. I own a business - spend about 4 hours a week on it, own my own home, 4 cars, am a co-owner of several large apt. complexes, and make in excess of $200k a year. I travel a lot for fun and don't work the 9-5 grind, don't have to request or wait for the two-week vacation period. This is all in addition and before any YTB dealings and I would obviously have no interest in becoming a TTA.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...I, likewise, consider myself to be a success. I own a business - spend about 4 hours a week on it, own my own home, 4 cars, am a co-owner of several large apt. complexes, and make in excess of $200k a year. I travel a lot for fun and don't work the 9-5 grind, don't have to request or wait for the two-week vacation period. This is all in addition and before any YTB dealings and I would obviously have no interest in becoming a TTA.
ReplyDelete-----------------------------
And this would apply to YTB and the discussion in what respect, besides the fact that you've claimed to be well-off? I must be missing something.
yes, your'e right - you ARE missing something.... Perhaps their post would JUST MAYBE apply to the above several posts talking about what "success" is! In your case, success would be in being able to read and comprehend before putting your foot in your mouth! lol....
ReplyDelete"Learjet, Gulfstream, Hawker Jet. Which one did you say he gets around in?"
ReplyDeleteDid you RTA's ever stop to think who paid for Coach's toy? YOU! And, the 80% that don't make anything. Given the current economy and YTB's SEC filings a lear was not a smart or sound business decision. Coach only purchased it for his own ego and hubris. He could care less if most of you aren't making money just keep sending him in your fees so he can tool around in his toy.
Success is not measured by buying a plane which is a BAD business decision.
"This is all in addition and before any YTB dealings and I would obviously have no interest in becoming a TTA."
If you have no interest in being a TTA, you shouldn't be in the business. Leave travel to the professionals and find another MLM.
Anonymous said...yes, your'e right - you ARE missing something.... Perhaps their post would JUST MAYBE apply to the above several posts talking about what "success" is! In your case, success would be in being able to read and comprehend before putting your foot in your mouth! lol....
ReplyDeleteSo do tell us all, how much do you make from YTB and what has it done for you? What is your YTB success story? With all of the other things you have going on and your wealth, exactly what part of the YTB plan would come into play? Once I know that, I might remove my foot.
John, Don't Quit Us Now! We need you around to fight the big bad YTB. Pleae stick around and don't hang it up too soon.
ReplyDeleteHe could have been in the company for 2 years and STILL not give it a fair shake, if he was doing nothing.
ReplyDeleteI'm a person who spent over 25 years in Health Administration and earned an excellent salary (6 figures).
When I saw the YTB opportunity to book travel and share it with others, I fired my boss after 2 months. I have no marketing experience!
I have also worked hard. Is that a bad thing? I worked very hard at my job (7 days a week). If I could work hard for someone else, I certainly could do it for myself.
It should never be said that it's easy unless you just distribute business cards and be satisfied with who books.
I've never seen a person so obsessed with a company as much as this columnist!