In a May26, 2008 column by Travel Weekly Editor Nadine Godwin, she brings up a lot of points which were made on this blog about a month ago. In a nutshell, that YTB seems to be on the decline in certain key areas. Emphasis mine.
From the column:
A review of the company's SEC filings for the last two years indicated that the company in the last two quarters attracted fewer new referring travel agents, known as RTAs, than in the third quarter of 2007, when the number peaked. Also, its rate of RTA retention dropped dramatically in the last two quarters. During that two-year period, YTB's reports show, there were some calendar quarters that produced a net gain in new RTAs that was as high as two-thirds or three-quarters of the number of sites sold. The last two quarters, however, produced the lowest retention rates of the past eight. In the first quarter of 2008, new site sales came to 31,000, but the quarter's net gain of active RTAs was only 7,749, or the equivalent of 25% of new recruits. There was also a slight decrease, 7.5%, in the number of websites sold in the first quarter of this year compared with first-quarter 2007.Is the trade media finally coming to the conclusion that this blog did when it launched in October of last year? Can it be the trade magazine that has heaped praise in the past may indeed be seeing that self reported numbers may not always be as accurate as promised? Can it be that others are generally coming around to the notion that MLMs and Travel are indeed a bad mix?YTB continues to earn considerably more by signing on RTAs and supplying their technology, just as RTAs are earning considerably more by bringing in additional affiliates.
In the first quarter this year, sales of the sites and monthly fees accounted for 79.5% of YTB's net revenue, and sales of education programs and marketing materials to RTAs amounted to another 7%. Travel commissions and services accounted for 12.5% of revenue.
Calculated differently, RTAs on average generated quarterly revenue for YTB of $244.64 for site sales and monthly fees plus $21.68 for educational materials and $38.37 in travel commissions.
The payouts revealed a similar relationship, with 58.7% of revenues paid in marketing commissions to RTAs and 9% of revenues paid in travel commissions.
Again, in dollars per RTA, that came to payouts of $180.59 in marketing commissions and $27.75 in travel commissions.
Looks like they are wising up
ReplyDeleteWait! Stop the car! Did someone else- some other reasonably intelligent, credible person read the YTB report and report the same thing that John stated last week? How can that be? Didn't all the YTBers say John was twisting things or making it up? hmmm. Must be a conspiracy or something. Yes that's it. I mean, YTB is a travel agency aren't they? But yet so little of their income comes from selling travel. I wonder what that means.....
ReplyDeleteThat's intereting. However, I think the statement of trying to calculate it differently is incorrect according to public documentation and other business filings or corporate docs:
ReplyDeleteCalculated differently, RTAs on average generated quarterly revenue for YTB of $244.64 for site sales and monthly fees plus $21.68 for educational materials and $38.37 in travel commissions."
It's misleading as one can't find where RTAs are affiliated with YourTravelBiz.com, Inc. to sell websites; nor can one find where REPs part of YTB Travel Network, Inc. in order to sell travel and earn travel commissions from an online travel store.
Katie said "I mean, YTB is a travel agency aren't they? But yet so little of their income comes from selling travel.".
ReplyDeleteFrom the business filings and licensing that I've found, YTB does operate a travel agency as YTB Travel Network, Inc. But you are correct, by the financial numbers YTB Travel Network Inc's revenue does make a much smaller portion when compared as a whole of all YTBI companies combined.
Remember...at least from what I've learned from this site and found to be included in various SEC reports...although one can be a part of both companies as an RTA/REP (YTB Travel Network, Inc. and YourTravelBiz.com, Inc.), sales are split between the companies they are representing at the time the sale is made. Then, earnings are reported and all rolled up under the parent publically traded company, YTBI. If I'm incorrect in identifying the roles, please correct. As a stock analyst, this is nothing different than the way many corporations operate.
They are robbing Peter to pay Paul (how's that for a biblical reference?) They are taking the income (fees and rental and marketing and commission) to pay the pyramid side.
ReplyDeleteAnd the reason TW is seeing that is I heard John just bought the magazine. Yes they could never say anything against Wall STreet's Darling now could they?
Scott Tomer, Chief Executive Officer of YTB, commented on the first quarter results, stating, "We are pleased by the significant increase that we experienced in our top-line results during the quarter. This growth speaks directly to the demand for our travel related services, and our ability to meet or exceed specific sales growth objectives through diligent execution. We are acutely aware that sustainable growth requires reinvestment in our company, and with this in mind, we incurred several charges during the quarter, directly related to the promotion of our brand, and the retention of our top performers and personnel. During the quarter, we also incurred expenses related to our expansion into three new countries to help build our international presence. Primarily due to these investments in our company, we reported a loss for the quarter."
ReplyDeleteMr. Tomer continued, "During this first quarter we continued to focus on the sale of travel by our RTAs, as well as the strengthening of our executive team. We welcomed two new members to our Board of Directors, Mr. Paul Hemings and Mr. Burt Saunders, and we are excited by the valuable experience that they bring from their respective fields. Looking forward, we plan on continuing to execute our stated mission to revolutionize the travel field by offering affordable travel and unique opportunities for motivated individuals to participate within this burgeoning industry.
"We see our recent move to the Over-The-Counter Bulletin Board as a positive step forward for us, and welcome the new investors that are now able to participate in the growth of our company."
Well if you expanded in three countries would it not make sense that your number of RTAs would increase?
ReplyDeleteScott can't spell "significant" good thing they hire good PR people.
They are impressed with the top line results---the top line is recruitment...travel is like the 5th.
It will be interesting to see the average travel sales per RTA in the next few quarters as they continue to "grow" in travel. Yes the travel sold will increase, but I suspect the average will decrease.
"And the reason TW is seeing that is I heard John just bought the magazine."
ReplyDeleteWow! John Frenaye bought Travel Weekly? Fantastic! Does this mean the daily press release from YTB will go away? And the trash on the message boards too?
John if you've got enough money to buy Travel Weekly, then can you spring for a spell check program we can use on the blog?
Anon said "They are robbing Peter to pay Paul (how's that for a biblical reference?) They are taking the income (fees and rental and marketing and commission) to pay the pyramid side."
ReplyDeleteAgain, I could be wrong, but in my stock analysis and research of their reportings, I or any other investment company has yet to find or see any documentation where YTB Travel Network has loaned YourTravelBiz.com (or vise-versa) any money for operations by taking income from one to fuel another. However, there is evidence pertaining to receipts of outside (or shareholder) investment captial, but none of which could be classified as company-to-company.
There are two businesses...recruiting (Reps) and travel sales (rtas).
ReplyDeleteThe ONLY income from selling travel is TRAVEL COMMISSIONS.
SO where are they getting the rest of the money to pay out the marketing commissions?
"And the reason TW is seeing that is I heard John just bought the magazine. Yes they could never say anything against Wall STreet's Darling now could they?"
ReplyDeleteCall TW and ASK them if John F did indeed purchase them. NOT! You people really are assholes. Excuse my French . But you deserved to be called that name after that stupid comment. You RTA's really are that stupid.
Oh please do not call them. How embarrassing. I know you RTAs are used to believing what is told to you without question, but this is the real world and I will quash the rumor here and now. I did not buy Travel Weekly! (Did I just actually have to say that???)
ReplyDeleteKate Holmes said, "Wow! John Frenaye bought Travel Weekly?"
ReplyDeleteNo Kate. It was Travel Weakly. ;>)
OleScorekeeper
Travel Weakly - that's YTB's magazine and it's not for sale!
ReplyDeleteYa, well I heard John bought Travel Weekly, and is the direct heir to the entire KFC empire. Haven't you ever noticed that he and Colonel Sanders have the same color hair?
ReplyDeleteCannot much of this be explained by the economy? Who in there right mind can spend $495 and $49.95 a month for a travel site? People don't have money to travel leisurely right now - I'm sure the travel business as a whole is probably bleak as a whole. I see consistent reports of revenues down here and there. I'm sure 10 to 12 gallons of gas is worth more than a monthly website fee!
ReplyDeleteYou are going to see a major shift in domestic travel back to the bus and train. From car to bicycle from some. Whats a travel agent comission for a bus ticket these days?
ReplyDelete10% on greyhound if you book thru a certain industry supplier.
ReplyDeleteMy biz is up 7% so far this year.
"You are going to see a major shift in domestic travel back to the bus and train. From car to bicycle from some. Whats a travel agent comission for a bus ticket these days?"
ReplyDeleteYup, and the RTA's will have to choose between paying Crotch to fly in his lear jet or buy gasoline.
Rod said...
ReplyDeleteWow! Thank you for sharing that article. This article illuminates who John Frenaye is.
John Frenaye is and has been in direct competition with the Internet Travel Companies from the beginning.
No wonder John Frenaye has extreme hatrid for the Internet travel mlms.
This is earth shaking news to me I compare to the day I discovered the reason why Islam's hatred of Biblical Christianity resulted in the terrorist bombing of the twin towers in New York City.
Sure, it off topic, but I just had to post it.
From dougs blather today...
Definitely a must read! Even came as surpise to the OleScorekeeper.
ReplyDeleteJust Picture It Now
OleScorekeeper
Must read to see how far off base he is?
ReplyDeleteNo thanks. Recruiterpro's blog is never anything but reactions to what is said here. For someone who has marginally been in the travel business for 3 years he sure likes to pretend he knows some thing. Face it. All you MLMers are REFERERS. That's it. Even your HQ calls you referrers or affiliates or some such nonsense.
Well Karla,
ReplyDeleteSeeing that 1999 article was an eyeopener for ME.
I'm new to the travel industry, 2 years, and right now I'm not even hooked up to any host so I've got a lot of learning to do. Today, I learned a big history lesson.
That 1999 article revealed why all the hatred of mlm internet travel companies exists. Primary -1) "When I entered this industry ... I realized that the strong would survive, and strength -- many times -- equates to size," he said. "Volume power is the name of the game," Ellenby said.
Secondary -- 2) Cheapens the industry -- Whatever that means. For one thing it means TTAs don't hold on to as much of the industry as they used to.
After reading that article, I'm seeing that a legitimate internet trvel mlm business makes more since due to the volume power benefit.
"After reading that article, I'm seeing that a legitimate internet trvel mlm business makes more since due to the volume power benefit."
ReplyDeleteLet me tell you why the travel mlm makes no sense.
1. All of your websites are exactly the same. You don't stand out.
2. You are an expert at nothing. The main reason to hire an agent is because you want an expert.
3. Their marketing sucks. What are they doing to attract new clients? Nothing. The entire focus is on building a downline.
4. If you look at what is going on in the industry, more and more vendors are shutting out the mlms all the time.
If you really want to be in travel, get some training and find yourself a respectable host.
Precisely, and as Doug said, it's the "..collective power we have as YTB. It’s also a big reason why only a few suppliers have actually dropped us. Money talks and with $414.5 Million booked in 2007 YTB is well on it’s way to dominating this industry, just like it was promised back in 2001."
ReplyDeleteOleScorekeeper
Rod said, "After reading that article, I'm seeing that a legitimate internet trvel mlm business makes more since due to the volume power benefit."
ReplyDeletePrecisely Rod, and as Doug said, it's the "..collective power we have as YTB. It’s also a big reason why only a few suppliers have actually dropped us. Money talks and with $414.5 Million booked in 2007 YTB is well on it’s way to dominating this industry, just like it was promised back in 2001."
OleScorekeeper
Meanwhile, the YTB RTA is blissfully unaware of the vast "collective power" yielded by TTA's and their consortiums such as Vacation.com, with thousands of member travel agencies, and over $18 BILLION in annual sales.
ReplyDeleteYes, that's BILLION.
Yes buying agencies is what people do to get more business. This is a shock to anyone? Oh wait, I forgot that they know nothing about travel. How do you think CWT and Amex became what they are. As for YTB becoming larger then them, never going to happen. When you focus on travel and dump the recruiting..maybe. But until the company as a whole grows up and gets an education in the industry, its never going to happen.
ReplyDeleteRod...don't you dare pretend to know anything about this industry based on some article from BEFORE 911. The travel industry has changed since then. Maybe if any of you knew anything about travel, you'd know that we've survived worse, and we're still here. So if you want to go back to paying coach money, and making nothing for yourself, go for it. Don't you dare cry, bitch or whine on any travel site that we didn't warn you time and time again.! So go back to the company and the brethern who deemed you a "loser" because you couldn't cut it the first go around. Yeah thats a bunch I'd want to work with.
Oh by the way...for those of you who don't know CWT and Amex..that'd be #1 and #2 on TW lists. Now I don't have the list in front of me but I believe their numbers for TRAVEL SOLD..not websites was to the tune of 35 BILLION or so.
ReplyDeleteI am not sure what the hub is about. Doug even modified the quote to fit his needs. I never mentioned cruise lines and the quote is as apropos today as it was a decade ago.
ReplyDeleteThe strong will survive. Rod, how strong are you? Seems like a pretty weak showing for two years with YTB to me. Doug? what about you? You are a lifetime member of Coach's Corner...doesn't seem like you are getting any stronger now does it? I mean even look at the ratings of your website, this blog's Alexa rating is 1.7M, your blog is 3.8M and your website--the one that brings you in all that money....9.6M. Check it out. Seems not too strong.
ANd I also said it sometimes equates to size.
But let's talk RCCL for a minute. Of course you never saw the letter so you cannot comment on firsthand knowledge. Yes they are going to move to individual company production. It is a welcome change and will level the field.
Do all the RTAs realize that each one is a company? That their 16% commissions will likely go to 10%. So now how are the riches at 60% of 10%? What you did not address is the overrides agencies of size get. Currently YTB gets them and they go directly to the pockets of Coach and Scott. But when the hammer comes down, they will lose them and you will be stuck at the bottom of the weakest agencies. You will not survive selling travel alone. My suggestion is to promote flowers.
Of course YTB could do all bookings themselves, but that makes you employees and opens a whole different pandora's box.
But you know what probably makes the most sense to me? Get rid of the RTAs. YTB already has the websites. They own them, you rent them. They have the technology, you don't. And you know what, by contract, they own the clients and you don't. So just picture this now...YTB becomes legit and ditches the asinine RTA deal and markets to the clients these foolish RTAs have handed to them over the years. They then do not need to share ANY commission with the RTAs and the overrides will go to Coach and Scott. Remember, the RTA program is merely a shill to make money for the Reps, so you are very expendable.
When Rod was in YTB, he said it was the opportunity of a lifetime and the YTB people were with him 100%. When he left, they called him names and told him he was a loser. As far back as my memory serves me, the TTAs told Rod how the business worked and explained things to him. Did it soak in? Apparently not and he's back right where he started except a lot poorer for the experience. To even think he would consider reenrolling in such a disaster is beyond my comprehension. Maybe it's because he actually believes what Doug is saying. If any of that were fact, then Doug would be a director and he isn't. His wife works to support the family and Doug has become a stay at home dad. That was not the original plan and one I'm sure his wife is not happy with.
ReplyDeleteOk Class let's do the Math:
ReplyDeleteYTB- $414.5 Million booked in 2007.
Vacation.com-18 Billion.
CWT and AMX-$35 Billion.
For you Math challenged RTA's who are a graduate of the Jethro Bodine 5th Grade that means YTB's collective power is about as much as an ant pissing in the wind.
$100 says Doug's wife is getting some action on the side from a real man!
ReplyDeleteWho cares about Doug he's a weenie.
ReplyDeleteJohn F. wrote:
"But you know what probably makes the most sense to me? Get rid of the RTAs."
Too easy for the boys John they will dump the whole shebang and go on to the next big thing funerals. I can picture it now sign up your family and friends for YTB Your Total Burial, make millions, be buried like a celebrity, tax right offs buying your funeral now. Save Big!!!
Ya know, I tried to push the whole funeral mlm thing a few months ago and I couldn't get anyone on board. Just picture it now! Everyone you know is going to be dead someday! Tell everyone within 3 feet about how they can get their funeral for free!
ReplyDeletePicture it Dead.
ReplyDeleteHaving visited Tasmania. this makes sense.
A few points - oh it's been so nice to be away....
ReplyDeleteFirst, my business is up over last year as well - and it's the big stuff, not Carnival or NCL...
The Agency I work for just got a very positive review from Checkbook Magazine - the measure thinkgs like knowledge, how the TA qualifies the Customer, integrity, etc....
You think you've got some sort of "leverage" do you? Just one of the top consortia - Virtuoso, Signature, Ensemble has more leverage than YTB and far few members. Why is that? Because the Vendors are starting to look at per agent production numbers - and we all YTB fails miserably at that. You may have 130,000 RTAs but only a coupl hundred move any sort of market share. The three consortia I named above are smallish yet their per agent averages are over $300k - this seems low, but one must keep in mind that they are counting all employees of an Agency - so this includes the bookkeeper, etc.... yet look at how much higher that is than YTB's averages. Now look at the franchises - do you thin American Express or CWT keeps any franchise where it's per Agent average is under $300k? Guess again - you don't have nay real leverage and it's starting to come back at you. Even Travel Weekly, who have been willing to give you all the benefit of the doubt, are beginning to look more closely at what is really going on. And don't you know that the "Big Boys" at CCL and Apple read all that? They sure do - they want to read the trade press that they want to appear in....the end is coming....
I put my two cents worth on scam.com:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.scam.com/showthread.php?p=524606#post524606
http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?p=524747#post524747
Honestly, both sides are pretty disgusting at this point.
Ann is a problem solver. She has helped in the solution. It's obvious she is not merely trying to destroy YTB. She is being forthright with her critique which can and should be used by YTB to better their YTB RTA training.
Rod--get a life. You are going to see whatever you want to see depending on what side of the bed you wake up on.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, I find that whuile there are errors o this blog, there are far fewer than you see on any of the other propaganda spewed by YTB.
Rod---how many years were you in the program and didnot earn a penny? And you are sitting here still defending them?
WTF is up wiht that?
www.theytb.com will give you some insight on this company.
ReplyDeleteJust the facts, man. Just the facts.
How is it FACTS when you have this disclaimer at the bottom of the site?
ReplyDeleteThis is NOT an official YTB site. Theytb.com is an independent site developed to provide information only. All opinions and statements are exclusively those of the authors and do not reflect the views of YTB, Your Travel Business or any of its subsidiaries. Although extreme care has been made to ensure accuracy, the authors do not assume any liability nor responsibility for any impact reliance on information provided in this web site ©2008 Resources Mark Archer
As a matter of FACT, the word "FACT" does not appear in there at all!
Blog Author quoted:
ReplyDelete"Is the trade media finally coming to the conclusion that this blog did when it launched in October of last year? Can it be the trade magazine that has heaped praise in the past may indeed be seeing that self reported numbers may not always be as accurate as promised?"
On June 23rd Travel Weekly was quoted:
"Editors checked with the company multiple times to ensure that its reported total represented only direct travel sales, not referrals or any other nonqualified revenues."
Guess this Blog Author doesn't know what he's talking about!
Please don't listen to the hype of the Anti-YTB few who will say just about ANYTHING to cast doubt on this fine company is now ranked #26 overall in Travel Sales by this same publication.
Facts are Facts
http://travelweekly.texterity.com/travelweekly/20080623/?pg=44