This just in from Travel Weekly. It seems that IATA is one of the few organizations in the industry to stand behind their convictions. YTB has been denied any reinstatement. I suspect that this will drastically impact their Hickory acquisition and quite likely affect their Canadian operations.
April 16, 2008
YTB Travel Network won assurances that the company can continue to use its IATA numeric code as an ARC-approved agency, but it did not win reinstatement at IATA.
YTB had challenged IATA's termination of the agency before IATA's agency commissioner for the U.S. The commissioner, James Johnstone, found that YTB had "lent, subcontracted to or hired to a third party" its IATA numeric code and that IATA had taken "the appropriate step to enforce its right in the code."
Johnstone cited an IATA exhibit in which YTB told its referring travel agents (RTAs) that their ARC/IATA number identified them "as an industry professional allowing you to become eligible for potential perks, preferred pricing and other courtesies."
On the other hand, the commissioner said there was "no issue" on the matter of YTB's option to continue using the same numeric code as an ARC agency. He cited an IATA memorandum issued on April 10, which stated IATA was not claiming that its termination of YTB's accreditation "results in any impairment with respect to its ARC accreditation."
Therefore, YTB can use its ARC number but not with any reference to IATA, and the agency is no longer eligible for any IATA products or services, said the commissioner.
Also, YTB was directed to immediately cease using the IATA codes, including in connection with any ID or other credentials, and to immediately recall all IDs or credentials that include the IATA code. YTB also was directed to immediately cease using the IATA trademark.
YTB's attorney, Al Anolik, said YTB had already ceased using the IATA trademark on RTA cards and elsewhere.
Just a question for you TTAs...
ReplyDeleteSInce you say you hate MLM (even though it is really YTB), what is your thought of this...
http://www.cruiseshipcenters.com/JoinOurTeam/opportunities/franchise/home-based-franchise/full-details.htm
I want to know what you feel about the cost to get involved, the fact that they advertise involvement by mentioning travel benefits and work at home tax benefits.
Please, your opinions are welcome.
Unlike an mlm, this is a legitimate company. No one who wants in just for the perks would drop this kind of change for a franchise.
ReplyDeleteI think the fact that Expedia is opening brick and mortar agencies ought to say something to those of you who have been so insistent that travel agents are a thing of the past.
It just amazes me..for a company that doesn't need RCL, doesn't need IATA, that they are so hard up to get it reinstated. That just shows you what kind of liars you have up at the top of the pyramid. But you know "Crotch"...he is god like in the eyes of the kooks.
ReplyDeleteFranchises are completely different from MLMs - different business models and different legalities.
ReplyDeleteCTA in MD
Well, I knokw from a logistical standpoing they are different.
ReplyDeleteMy point was, expedia is using "perks" of getting into the travel industry to sell the franchise....that according to TTAs is a big no no for YTB
2) Expedia is asking for the person looking to get in to front some big money to "go to work", that is also according to many TTAs here a big no no for YTB
3) Expedia is trying to get peopple to pay so that THEY marketing expedia's product instead of expedia paying for advertising. So, expedia is getting paid when people "join" AND then expedia will get paid when those people sell travel.
Hmmmmmm....sounds familiar.
Don't give me this nonsense about expedia being a REAL company.
The problem is, is now your arguments lose their luster when you pick and choose who can do certain things.
If you want to make it about all those things, they you have to petition to have expedia's relationship with RCL and other vendors terminated.....etc...
If you want to make it about one particular thing, then go ahead...
Which part of travel and mlm's are a bad mix do you not understand? If YTB dropped the MLM portion of their business, and focused on being a legitimate host....but they never will cause the $$$ are not in selling travel but in selling websites and building downlines. I don't see where Expedia is offering anything but the opportunity to sell cruises.
ReplyDeleteDo you see the difference?
YTBSCAM--they are not liars at the top. They just do not know the travel business. They are experienced in MLM recruiting and are using travel as the vehicle to skirt the FTC and make it "legal".
ReplyDeleteLook at their Board or any of their executives, there is ZERO travel experience for any of them. None! To be honest, RTA #1 with YTB likely has more experience than the Board and Senior Management.
Had they had any expertise, they likely would not have run afoul of IATA, Royal Caribbean, The IOC, Perillo, and not attracted all the negative attention they have received.
But the egos involved and the cult mentality are difficult to overcome and to be honest it will be downfall of the model.
To the TTA throng -
ReplyDeleteTime to enlighten you with a few points . . .
The Canadian agency purchase was not designed to get YTB's IATA status back, it was to have a YTB-owned travel office in a country that we are now doing business in.
HTS approached YTB, not the other way around. You are correct that the owners then met with HTS in NJ.
A bit of real information in the midst of speculation -
YTB and TRAVEL: A Great Mix!
I see that there is a difference, but EXPEDIA is going to bring in 4000 bucks each time someone signs up, it sounds to me that EXPEDIA is going to be trying very hard to get people to sign up.
ReplyDeleteSo, if expedia can make 4000 by signing someone up or 300 bucks by selling a double ocean view on a Carnival cruise, which one do YOU think they will focus on?
Do you see the SIMILARITY
Recall all the RTA cards......LOL yeah right good luck with that! When they signed up the 90,000 last year they were giving out two cards witheach purcahse so there are 180K cards out there.
ReplyDeleteThe industry does not police itself so they likely do get discounts someplaces withthe card that says IATA Number....
You watch, there is still gonna be a ton of these floating out there.
I never understood why ARC and IATA shared the number anyhow. Makes no sense, same numbers different formats
ytbscam -
ReplyDeleteIf you want to keep talking about your crotch on an internet blog, I'm sure there are pornographic sites where you would be welcome.
Besides, there are women present . . .
YTB and TRAVEL: A Great Mix!
Actually, the cards have an expiration date after 12 months. My card, which I received in DEC 2006, was reissued in DEC 2007 without the IATA on it.
ReplyDeleteJUST FYI
Still have a CLIA card though
By the way to keep the immaturity going....the word verification I just had to type in was BGSNOT
ReplyDeleteIf you don't understand the difference between a franchise and an mlm, you need to go back to school sweetie.
ReplyDeleteYou also seem to be ignoring the fact that a major on-line travel agency sees the need for a brick and mortar agency. Why?? Because people still want service and the expertise of a REAL travel agent. Orbitz is now training destination specialists.
It's time for you YTBers to wake up and smell the cat food. You can't keep pretending to be travel agents and be successful. It won't work in the long run. Real travel agents are the future of travel.
Oh I understand the difference between a franchise and a MLM.
ReplyDeleteThe glaring similarity in what Expedia is asking the general person to do and what YTB is asking to do is what you are missing.
It is time you wake up and smell the cat food....EXPEDIA is going to make 4K so you can work at home.
YTB is going to make 450 so you can work at home. You tell me which one has a more vested interest in NOT selling travel.
$4k is cheap for a franchise. Some travel franchises go for $10k-$30k and more and are worth every penny.
ReplyDeleteOthers will let an experienced travel sales professional join for $395.
Franchise owners get paid 100% commission on their travel sold.
Franchise owners make their livings on selling travel ONLY - not on recruiting others to feed their downline/upline/powerteam.
They run their own business, they don't need for a "Coach" to "call a play".
Expedia - an ONLINE TRAVEL GIANT - is seeing the need to bring the travel business to the home-based and brick and mortar arenas.
As a TTA, I welcome them!
MLM specialists (TTAs) -
ReplyDeleteKeller-Williams Real Estate Company operates as an MLM.
Agents make money by signing up other agents.
They also make overrides on their "team" of agents.
I bet each of those agents also gets a commission when they sell a house to themselves.
What a disgraceful company!
YTB and TRAVEL: A Great Mix!
I wonder who would spend 4000 if they were not serious about selling cruises? Sure, there are less expensive ways to do it but Expedia is well known and that may be the plug. I bet YTB would charge as much if they thought people just purchasing travel for themselves would spend that kind of dough. But YTB does not have the rep that Expedia does, and YTBs focus is on MLM, not selling cruises. Expedia model vs ytbs - I see no similarities.
ReplyDeleteMixed Up, Thanks for the misinformation.
"The glaring similarity in what Expedia is asking the general person to do and what YTB is asking to do is what you are missing."
ReplyDeleteWhat YOU are missing is that travel host agencies and franchises have been doing this for decades! It is nothing new to our industry.
Yes, there is a similarity, no doubt about it.
YTB took it another step, and added the MLM recruiting model to the mix - and the main focus of YTB is selling memberships and recruiting - NOT selling travel. This is shown in all of their financial reports.
If you look at ANY of the public travel host agencies or franchises and their financials, you will see that their focus is travel, not on recruiting.
Anon asked, "Since you say you hate MLM (even though it is really YTB), what is your thought of this...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cruiseshipcenters.com/JoinOurTeam/opportunities/franchise/home-based-franchise/full-details.htm
I want to know what you feel about the cost to get involved, the fact that they advertise involvement by mentioning travel benefits and work at home tax benefits."
I received an ad about this several weeks ago. I looked at it and even commented on another user group, that I thought it was way overpriced. I did not recall their advertisement, so I went and looked at it again. There is a brief mention of familiarization trips, but I did not see any mention of tax benefits. Perhaps I missed it in my quick review.
They do not spend the bulk of their ad touting travel benefits and perks like the MLM companies. It is mentioned in passing. It spends the bulk of the ad describing the actual travel training you can get, and the certifications you can earn. It talks about the business of selling travel, which is what I would think they should concentrate on.
However, I think their fees are ridiculous. I can't see why anyone would want to take advantage of that plan. There are so many better ways to go.
You TTAs should really read expedia's website before chiming in....
ReplyDeleteThey will give you the opportunity to recruit other agents so that YOU as the Franchise owner can "leverage" your efforts to "grow your business' by "acting" as a host agency to other travel consultants.
Here it is verbatim...
Home-based Franchise Partners enjoy all of the marketing and technology of a retail center. Plus, with Expedia CruiseShipCenters you can leverage the power of CruiseDesk® to grow your business by acting as a "host agency" to other home-based travel consultants.
So, again.....tell me the difference as with the expedia opportunity, you pay 4000 to sell ONLY cruises..EXPEDIA has a 4000 vested interest to sell you a franchise. You can recruit other "travel consultants" to build you business and get a piece of the action there.
YTB you pay 450 to sell cruises and anything travel....YTB has a 450 vested interest to sell you a website. But, YTB also has a 30% profit margin on the sales of travel. You can recruit others to build your business and get a peice of the action there.
But here is the real difference....EXPEDIA is seeking out not existing travel pros but general people looking to work from home for $4000 and 100 per month, and YTB is looking for the same people for 10% of the start up fee.
I've never heard of Keller-Williams
ReplyDeletebut thanks for the warning. i'll make sure to bypass them and deal with proffessional realtors next time I'm ready to buy/sell.
I could start a pizza shop in my neighborhood and hope it does well - OR - I could join a franchise like Dominos and have a much greater chance at success.
ReplyDeleteYTB - neighborhood pizza shop
Expedia - Dominos franchise
AND if you read the entire site, like you said you did, you would see that you CAN sell MORE than just cruises.
"YTB is looking for the same people for 10% of the start up fee."
ReplyDeleteWRONG, this is what you don't get.
$449 to join YTB is NOTHING, anyone that wants to PLAY travel agent can join - and thats your target market.
$4000 to join CruiseShipCenters is a SERIOUS INVESTMENT, and only those SERIOUS about selling travel would follow this route.
Big difference in target market.
You sound jealous that they can charge what they like.
ReplyDeleteWhere does Expedia say it is adopting the MLM model? Do you have even a clue what a host agency is and the responsibilities that being a host entails? No, I thought not. Again, if YTB were to drop the MLM and become a legitimate host we wouldn't be here on MLM & Travel - A Bad Mix would we?
Check out Joystar if you want a better deal than YTB. Of course, you would only sell travel...
Anon said...
ReplyDelete"$449 to join YTB is NOTHING, anyone that wants to PLAY travel agent can join - and thats your target market."
It is a great point, except the play travel part.
It is nothing...so please refrain from saying that YTB is ripping people off.
"YTB is ripping people off."
ReplyDeleteI never said that.
YTB members can choose to sell travel or not, or even just to sell to themselves or their immediate family - or they can just recruit and sell websites.
There is no serious commitment to generate travel sales.
$4000 would create more of a serious commitment to generate travel sales.
I call it a rip off when 80% of the RTAs make little to nothing for cost of joining YTB. Bet that never comes up during the recruiting. Just a little omission of the truth.
ReplyDeleteWhat's even sadder is that the 80% not making little or nothing cling to the notion they will be millionaires and travel for free. YTB brain washes people and is a cult.
ReplyDeleteTTA's -
ReplyDelete"YTB brain washes people and is a cult."
All worked up today, aren't we?
Spend $4000 versus $500? THAT will take some brainwashing.
I am glad that Expedia is going to charge $4000. It will enhance our recruiting.
I will be glad to compare programs with someone looking at the travel industry.
In spite of the whining TTAs, YTB will sell millions more travel in 2008 versus 2007.
We will do it our way, you will do it yours. We will sell millions more travel, how about you?
YTB and TRAVEL: A Great Mix!
"The commissioner, James Johnstone, found that YTB had "lent, subcontracted to or hired to a third party" its IATA numeric code and that IATA had taken "the appropriate step to enforce its right in the code."
ReplyDeleteFunny how they overlooked this violation of "the code" for such a long time before terminating YTB. I'm sure theres more to that story.
It's interesting to note YTBLA is still rising regardless of this news.
OleScorekeeper
31 comments and none on the topic at hand. Just bickering about Expedia.
ReplyDeleteBut this is typical in that when YTB cannot discus anything intelligently, they will deflect. I think there may be a class on that at the convention!
ytbscam ALERT!
ReplyDeleteI am going to violate my standard of not commenting about the YTB stock.
ytbscam, prepare yourself, you will not like this . . .
YTB International (YTBLA) Approved for Trading on OTCBB
Thursday April 17, 11:37 am ET
YTB International, Inc. (OTC Bulletin Board: YTBLA - News; "YTB" or the "Company"), a provider of Internet-based travel booking services for travel agencies and home-based independent representatives in the United States, Bermuda, the Bahamas, and Canada, today announced that its Class A Common Stock has been approved for quotation on the Over-the-Counter Bulletin Board (the "OTCBB"). All existing market makers will move to the OTCBB within the next 30 days. The Company's Class A Common Stock will continue to be quoted under the ticker symbol "YTBLA."
YTB is a leader in the travel services business and has operated in the travel services industry for 25 years. The Company recently reported its third consecutive quarter of profitability, with total revenue for the year ended December 31, 2007 increasing by 177% to $141.3 million, compared to $50.9 million for the previous year.
The OTCBB provides access to more than 3,300 securities, includes more than 230 participating market makers, and electronically transmits real-time quote, price, and volume information in domestic securities, foreign securities and ADRs.
"We are excited that the Bulletin Board has agreed to quote our Class A Common Stock, as it confirms that YTB International meets the strict filing and disclosure regulations of the Securities and Exchange Commission," stated Scott Tomer, Chief Executive Officer of YTB. "Quoting our stock on the Bulletin Board dramatically increases the number of investors that can freely trade our stock. We believe that this will help to increase the liquidity and visibility of our stock in the financial markets."
Another great day at YTB!
YTB and TRAVEL: A Great Mix!
Here's the difference:
ReplyDelete1.Expedia is not marketing this franchise to the general public. THey are only marketing it to experienced travel agents.
2.Anyone with a pulse can join YTB. Not anyone can become an Expedia franchisee.
3. An Expedia franchise is a real business. YTB is a joke.
4. Expedia has a great reputation and an IATA number. YTB is a joke.
Mixed Up, So what? The day traders will have a field day with YTB. Again, who cares? And back to the topic, without IATA, YTB is going to find international expansion that much harder and may find that Canada takes a down turn.
ReplyDeleteBut, naturally, you don't care about the travel related issues do you?
John -
ReplyDeleteYou can count to 31. How about counting to 9?
I did comment on the IATAN situation as well as HTS.
Let's talk about deflecting.
You mean like how you were conveniently quiet about the ridiculous Trafalgar scoop earlier this week?
With your "spaghetti against the wall" practice?
Even your TTA buddies were not excited about how you handled that one.
YTB and TRAVEL: A Great Mix!
I thought the point of the post today was about being DENIED IATAN even after everyone "claimed" they didn't need it anyway. If its not such a big deal, why pursue it with costly lawyers? Glad IATAN stuck to their guns, however, getting all the cards back is a joke, like thats going to happen. Considering some of the agents werent even aware that IATAN was revoked, or that RCCL doesn't do business with you anymore. Shows how much travel is actually booked.
ReplyDeleteYTB's Appeal To IATA:DENIED
ReplyDeleteQuotation on the
Over-the-Counter Bulletin Board: APPROVED
All in all, not a bad day for YTB.
OleScorekeeper
Traveling? Why not travel with a cause and help fight cancer too! Click on this link...
National Foundation for Cancer Research
Mixed-Up, you were the one who got the Trafalgar thing wrong and it was pointed out but guess you missed it. Spin.
ReplyDeleteYTB printed an error and YTB did not correct it. YTB did not verify befor publication because all the wee reps and rtas either don't pay attention to what YTB says or they don't care about errors either. Yeah, that's it!
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI could start a pizza shop in my neighborhood and hope it does well - OR - I could join a franchise like Dominos and have a much greater chance at success.
YTB - neighborhood pizza shop
Expedia - Dominos franchise
Comparing YTB to a neighborhood pizza shop is a bad analogy because although your neighborhood is where you start with YTB, the customer base is worldwide as an internet travel company.
Rod decide where you are about YTB your flip flopping makes me ill
ReplyDeleteI'm right here Doug...I haven't gone anywhere once again....regardless of what you think. Keep thinking that 20 cent raise will make you millions, because it won't. You guys are the laughing stock of the travel world.
ReplyDeleteI'm not going anywhere...you people are idiots.
I'm still waiting on the Phil, the or the great DR. answers, we haven't seen any of that in months....oh wait because they don't exist in your eyes. Oh wait...just ignore the subject and they will go away.
Before you know it....good ole Scott and the Crotch will be claiming that Mr. T and Superman are part of YTB, and the rest of you blind morons will believe it, and invest your life in it...right Douggie? And I thought you were a MD.
nomoreytb said...
ReplyDeleteYTB printed an error and YTB did not correct it. YTB did not verify befor publication because all the wee reps and rtas either don't pay attention to what YTB says or they don't care about errors either.
Looks like nomoreytb didn't verify his spelling error befor(e) publication. Maybe he/she/it doesn't care about errors either. And it's not rta, it's RTA.
Can we pause the "Days of our Lives" so I can take a pee break?
ReplyDeleteThanks
YTBSCAM I need your expert advice.
ReplyDeleteI'm very impressed with what you say since your predictions all come true. So what does this mean? Is this good or bad? Do I buy YTB stock or sell what I got. Please help me. You are the smartest stock analyst on this blog IMHO. I read your blog daily. Keep up the good work!
Your Brother In The Faith
YTB International (YTBLA) Approved for Trading on OTCBB
Thursday April 17, 11:37 am ET
YTBSCAM - "That just shows you what kind of liars you have up at the top of the pyramid."
ReplyDeleteJOHN - "YTBSCAM--they are not liars at the top."
Liar liar, pants on fire SCAM!
Thanks JF. This dude is out of control.
Can I sell my house without a real estate license? Yes. Can I sell almost anything I want on eBay without any credentials? Basically yes. Can I make millions without a college degree? Yes. So -
ReplyDeleteYTB will continue to sell lots of travel without IATA and continue to make an impact in the industry.
The stock news is good for YTB although we see changes in the industry, (and just the economy alone), occur daily and it will persist. Expedia has to look at other ways to expand their business because they aren't meeting forcasts. YTB will continue to adapt as challenges arise and developments occur.
I caution all those spending their productive time (if you know your hourly worth) anticipating and researching the demise of MLM travel. This time is spent and you can't get it back.
Even though some of you dislike Doug - may I suggest you at least pause and give thought to his decision to not spend time on these battles - it's not productive and some may consider the same.
Even though I think MLM Travel is fine, I also believe in the Traditional Travel Agencies. They have to be available. It's fun to poke fun of each but if you are really letting this heat your blood you probably should step back and think about what's important.
Thanks John for the forum.
No anon, its rta. There is no need to capitalize it. For a second there I thought I'd spelled it rats! That would have upset you I know.
ReplyDeleteMy sincere apologies to all the bloggers for any typos, past, present or future.
"Doug - may I suggest you at least pause and give thought to his decision to not spend time on these battles"
ReplyDeleteToo bad he can't stick to the decision he made. He started off fine, but he's falling back into his old patterns and is battling away.
Rod said "Comparing YTB to a neighborhood pizza shop is a bad analogy because although your neighborhood is where you start with YTB, the customer base is worldwide as an internet travel company."
ReplyDeleteYou completely missed the point.
The neighborhood pizza shop doesn't have a nationally known name brand whereas Dominos does.
The reason anyone would buy a franchise at $4000 vs a YTB or any other travel host agency membership is that the franchise has NAME BRAND RECOGNITION.
Put 100 people in a room, or ask them on the street. Ask them who has heard of YTB and who has heard of Expedia.
Who do you think would have more recognition?
nompreytb said...
ReplyDeleteMy sincere apologies to all the bloggers for any typos, past, present or future.
You can't even get your name straight. Right nompre? LMAO!! Maybe you should go back to ytbnomore. lol!!
okay I will!
ReplyDelete"YTB is a leader in the travel services business and has operated in the travel services industry for 25 years."
ReplyDelete25 years? Typo?
This is some of the greatest news I've received all year. Thanks for posting it, John. Hopefully CLIA will follow the lead and kick these uneducated scum out of the travel business too, but I'm not counting on that since it's a cash cow for them. As YTB sinks lower and lower in the minds of suppliers, hopefully this IATAN issue will have some bearing.
ReplyDeleteDon't be surprised when YTB is delisted once again and soon. After being delisted once, a close eye will be kept on their reports.
YTB and TRAVEL: I never book anything or recruit much so I can post on this blog 37 times per day and still have time to write my own bog! It's a good thing my wife works.
Martha -
ReplyDeleteIf that is some of the greatest news you have heard all year, your life must be B-O-R-I-N-G!
Much less than the purported "10 hours per week" that John spends on this blog . . . all to have fun with the TTAs who can't get through the day without YTB.
YTB and TRAVEL: A Great Mix!
"Hopefully CLIA will follow the lead and kick these uneducated scum out of the travel business"
ReplyDeleteHow would you like Mania Martha for your travel agent and YTBSCAM man for your stock broker? Their both so professional and capable.
Hey they calls em as they sees em! Call a spade a spade. And while maybe not the most grammatically or politically correct commenters, on a basic level they are not wrong!
ReplyDelete"not the most grammatically or politically correct commenters"
ReplyDeleteThat certainly is an understatement! SCAM uses spell checker but really needs a good grammar checker. Martha needs some anger management counseling. Their quite a pair. lol!
Anonymous said...That certainly is an understatement! SCAM uses spell checker but really needs a good grammar checker. Martha needs some anger management counseling. Their quite a pair. lol!
ReplyDeleteOnly when I read comments from the same YTB person that posts anonymously about 40 times per day yet claims to be making so much money that they have a difficult time counting it. I'm sorry but I don't have any respect for hypocrites and users. Just picture that.
Usually I don't bring up spelling and grammar shortcomings, but if the poster is going to criticize, then please learn the difference between "their" and "they're."
And once more: Yeah for IATAN showing they can't be controlled by money and knows a card mill when they see it.
Just Picture It Now: I'm a travel agent without credentials!
angry martha -
ReplyDeleteI'm up early for the day.
Thought you would enjoy the fact that I am responding to your latest deep concern about YTB.
Got to get an early start on the opportunities that YTB provides for me.
Two quick lessons for you for today:
I am wireless wherever I go. Provided by my tax deductible Verizon card and my super-fast notebook computer. It's easy to keep up with my YTB business from here or there (and to keep tabs on your latest rant)
You are not the sleuth that you think you are. I am not Doug B. But I like Doug B. We both have the honor of getting you stirred up (and mixed up)
Surprise . . . I am with SD. TTAs provide a needed service to thousands and thousands of people. Most of you do a great job at what you do.
It's just too bad that you have such disdain ("kick these uneducated scum out of the travel business") and loathing for what we do.
That's why I am here. As a counterpoint to the anti-YTB hysteria. And a chance to see what makes you tick.
It is enlightening . . . to say the least.
Enjoy your day!
YTB and TRAVEL: A Great Mix!
"Their quite a pair. lol!"
ReplyDeleteNow that's ironic! It's "they're quite a pair".