It is such a shame when you see things like this. It really makes me mad that this industry has allowed people like this to operate. You can read the article and see the video on the Houston Click 2 Website:
HOUSTON -- As planes flew over the Houston sky, Ruby Bell and Josephine Alix thought about where they should have been -- on a spring break getaway with 100 or more fellow HISD bus drivers. But they never made their trip. "I'd never been to Vegas," said Bell. For Bell, it was a supposed to be special. She planned on taking her mother to celebrate her 65th birthday. "So she could say her daughter done taken her on a nice trip, once in her life," said Bell. Instead of hitting the slots, she and her colleagues were still in Houston on Friday, out a lot of money. "I lost $658.37," said Bell. "$374," said Alix. They said they booked the trip through a travel agent named Tonya Covington, who claimed she worked through XXXXXXX. They received some flight confirmations, but became suspicious when booking took too long. "When I called the airport, they said I had a one-way ticket, no hotel reservation, just a one-way flight," said Alix. "I done text-messaged her nicely, left messages, but still no response from this woman," said Bell. KPRC Local 2 tried to find her, with no luck. The station only got her voicemail, still advertising the travel agency. "So what's the most disappointing thing about it?" asked KPRC reporter Elizabeth Scarborough. "I wasn't able to show my mother how much I love her," said Bell. The bus drivers said they are now working with attorneys to try to get their money back in court.
The accompanying video is even more compelling as the group seems to be out about $37,000. Anyone care to venture a guess as to the agency? Want a hint?
And before anyone jumps on the bandwagon about rogue traditional travel agents, I do fully realize that there are bad apples in every bunch. However, you need to understand that YTB recruited 131,000 people last year which is effectively doubling the number of "travel agents" in the nation--if not more. Add to this that these same 131,000 people are untrained and not really equipped to service a client's needs. And the third, and most volatile, ingredient in this recipe for disaster is that the vast majority of these 131,000 people are not making any money, when they likely were promised riches--unless they attended Proud To Be YTB's Seminars. I Can see where it would be very tempting to just take the money and run. Why is YTB any more susceptible to do this than a TTA? Well, in the TTA world, they are making an income. Remember in 2007, the average RTA earned $102 and the average Rep earned $265. This is the tip of the iceberg.
And I do need to shout a loud "WTF?" to the bus drivers. Apparently paying her in cash, and responding to a "hand written" solicitation. Apparently she missed the Marketing 101 class at YTBU!
PS: After watching the video, one wonders why YTB seems to have a policy of not returning calls to the media. Perhaps they are only willing to talk about the good things! It is the same MO that happened in Baltimore.
Come on john.....
ReplyDeleteYou can't post that and then say this.....Before anyone jumps on the bandwagon about "ROGUE" traditional travel agents?????
You yourself made the point that there are 131,000 YTB RTAs and you have ONE story.
Someone posted on scam.com yesterday about a dozen stories in a matter of a few minutes about your so called rogue agents.
You keep grasping at straws and this time you try to quash the rebuttal before it comes.
Just Sad John, Sad!!!
I forgot to add this point....John you mentioned that without YTB there were roughly 130,000 travel agents, well again you found ONE story out of 130,000 ytbers and on scam.com there were about 8 posted in a matter of minutes I am sure we could find more from each. But, to post that on your blog with the attempt to make readers think that that is one of the reasons why travel and MLM is a bad mix is disingenious to say the least.
ReplyDeleteYou make it seem that YTB folks will resort to crime becasue they don't make money????
ReplyDeleteHow about this one...
http://www.newsnet5.com/News/337006/detail.html
Travel agents have been going out of business in the thousands since the late 90s, so I CAN DEFINATELY SEE WHY TTAS would resort to crime. Losing their jobs like that...
I thought I was pretty clear that since YTB is recruiting the masses, that eventually with so many of them not making money that the temptation will present itself.
ReplyDeleteAs to the SCAM links, I just looked and some are outdated and one of them was even a MLM type operation--not a TTA.
What is more concerting is that YTB hires from Yale to Jail. Yet YTB will not answer tot he accusations. It is a very good place to be--insulated because they are all independent contractors.
Meanwhile the so called "agents" are running wild with no training, experience or expertise.
I feel that this is the beginning. The people on the bottom of the pyramid will become disillusioned with the real earnings versus the alluded earnings and in desperation may be tempted to take the money and run. It has happened twice with the same MO for the same destination for the same MLM in less than 4 months. Same story different channel.
You are correct that there are bad apples in every bunch, but your opinion on this topic is based on dishonesty.
ReplyDeleteYou just assume that because there are thousands that haven't made money with YTB that they will resort to crime. You have no idea A) why they joined (maybe to just make 50 bucks a month EXTRA is cool for them and B) what other sources of income they have.
I have an RTA in my team who is an attorney making 400K per year as an attorney. He books his travel from himself and makes comissions back exceeding his 50 bucks per month. He probably nets 1000 bucks a year. You would consider him a failure at YTB and he would now resort to crime. I am willing to bet that there are many in YTB who are doing what that guy is doing. Buying from himself instead of travelocity, orbitz, expedia, etc.
Again, not competing with you or other TTAs but with the online biggies.
I am glad you posted that link for 8 years ago. It kind of demonstrates the resiliency of a trained agent.
ReplyDeleteIf you took that as gospel, we all would be out of business by now, but studies in Travel Weekly (the YTB Bible) indicate that more and more people are shunning the internet. Sure it is a great tool and a money saver for the simplest trips--no one denies that.
But 8 years later and these dinosaurs are still here. And if it is such a doomed industry--why is YTB encouraging people to get trained at the Mancini classes? Certainly your leaders can see that personal involvement is so so 2000 can't they? Or maybe it is and they are just looking to get the money from you for the training before they move on!
Johnny boy--- you hit a nerve with the YTB Scammers! Maybe they all read Doug's book and have taken it verbatim on how to defend the facts presented. If I recall the book had nothing in it--so apparently they have nothign to say.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if Doug used all that was in his head to come up with that book? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.. probably.
Well, off to work---
John,
ReplyDeleteOnce again you missed the point. I posted that article (even though it was old) to make a point that there were TTAs closing their doors and that doesn't mean that all of a sudden they were going to commit crimes, like you suggested with YTB folk.
As far as the other poster, "all the YTB scammers" I have been the only anon poster so far this morning, and I have plenty to say, so you make no sense either.
Both sides of this issue could sit here and fling stories at each other about "rogue" agents and this and that. At the end of the day, it accomplishes nothing.
ReplyDeleteRegardless of the fact that traditional travel agents have been declining in number since 1995 when airline commission cuts took effect, there are still a great number who are making a profit and still in business. Look at the recent Aloha and ATA Airlines situation. It's a version of "thinning the herd", a kind of corporate Darwinism. It's the same thing with the traditional model - too many agencies were unable or unwilling to adapt to the times, and owners either retired or shut down.
The fact also remains that YTB agents, -as a whole-, do not have proper industry knowledge to handle situations that arise in travel. It's more than just accepting someone's payment for a cruise line and making sure they get their documents. It's giving them guidance on their vacation and helping them determine just what would be the best option for them. It's fixing a problem (like Aloha or ATA) before they have the chance to panic about it. It's sharing in the love of travel with the clients, and not worrying about becoming a millionaire.
Yes, there are a few YTB'ers who have the desire, knowledge, and etc. and do well selling travel. From all the evidence available, it's apparent this is a much smaller number than the total # of YTB agents reported.
You people are a bunch of darn hypocrites! When it is one rogue TTA out of how many thousands and thousands you jump all over it and tell us we are all bad!
ReplyDeleteBut when it is one of your own we are picking on you.
HYPOCRITES!
STeve,
ReplyDeleteI generally disagree with you , but you always have a mature discussion with a reasonable tone. I still think you broad brush too much about YTB. Yes, there are many uninformed RTAs with YTB, but the overwhelming majority of them do not claim to have expertise. They REFER people to their website. Their competition is the travelocity, orbotz and expedias of the world, not you and the other TTAs.
That is the big problem with the whole argument about service. Your gripe should not be with YTB or MLM even but with the general ability and desire of millions of consumers to book online WITHOUT the service or even the EXPECTATION of service.
Now, for me personally and for many RTAs who have been trained, we take pride in doing our best to service our customers.
While it is unfortunate that it happened to be someone affilaited with YTB who pulled this scam, I'm afraid it would have happened regardless of the scammers affiliation, some people are just wired that way.
ReplyDeleteI'm far from being a YTB fan... despite having family employed by them... not RTA's, but actually employed by the company.
The screening process is non-existant, they (YTB's upper crust) don't care who joins as long as as the fees are paid.
Some RTA's actually do what they shoudl and train their downline, others only worry about getting them signed up and then leave them to fend for themselves.
The family member I mentioned is one of the support reps who works from home, I have been home and working in the same room on several occasions, and hear the rep end of these calls... and the things that have to be explained sometimes are things that the upline should have taught these people, but apparently just didn't seem to bother.
The YTB concept is not bad, it's just poorly executed. Lack of training, lack of disseminated knowledge, lack of proper support...
If you have a good upline, who takes the time to work with you,a nd share knowledge, the you're lucky.. if you're one of the unfortunates who don't get such guidance, "Them's the breaks" and the problem is, that snowballs... because a poorly trained person is not equiped to train their downline either... and it goes on, and on....
It's still not an excuse for what happened in Houston... that is simply the result of one dishonest person's greed... whatever the catalyst involved, it was their decision to act in the manner they did and should not be held as a reflection of the company they are aligned with.
ytrewq--thanks for your post. What you say make a lot of sense to me. Let me ask you...if that RTA in Houston was making a reasonable amount of money with YTB...perhaps along the lines of what they are led to believe or maybe a LOT less. But say they were making $20K a year. Do you think that they are still wired to scam? Or are they more apt to scam because of the situation?
ReplyDeleteI know at the presentations I have been to, they are careful to NOT say you will earn X dollars. But they are also very careful to show you (by example) the unrealistic earnings of those at the top of the pyramid. Was it a coincidence in DC when Scott gave out a handful of $10K bonuses and a $250K director bonus in front of a crowd of prospects? Of course not. The 800 people were handed a paper that said they likely would make a few hundred bucks in a year, but the lasting impression was that TV Wilson just got a quarter million dollars. It was not disclosed that the $250K was in stock, but hey..
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteSTeve,
I generally disagree with you , but you always have a mature discussion with a reasonable tone. I still think you broad brush too much about YTB. Yes, there are many uninformed RTAs with YTB, but the overwhelming majority of them do not claim to have expertise. They REFER people to their website. Their competition is the travelocity, orbotz and expedias of the world, not you and the other TTAs.
That is the big problem with the whole argument about service. Your gripe should not be with YTB or MLM even but with the general ability and desire of millions of consumers to book online WITHOUT the service or even the EXPECTATION of service.
Anonymous, this is where you are wrong. Expedia, Travelocity, Orbitz, etc. have back offices of TTAs that DO provide customer service, even though their clients initially book online.
Well, the online biggies may have "back office TA support" but i am willing to bet that most of the customers either don' tknkow that or would know enough to simply call the vendor themselves.
ReplyDeleteWith that said, the fact that they offer the service is good, as does YTB through its RTAs and the travel support department which I have called several times to assist with a customer.
"Well, the online biggies may have "back office TA support" but i am willing to bet that most of the customers either don' tknkow that or would know enough to simply call the vendor themselves."
ReplyDeleteWell that's simply wrong - Expedia, Orbitz, and Priceline have been advertising ad infinitim on TV that they have robust Customer Support programs - basically, we're behind you all the way..... and it's all over the websites. YTB is actually the only travel company I know of that directs it's customers to the third party vendor (airline, cruiseline, etc.) for assistance.
CTA in MD
I know this is off topic, but just read this and found it interesting. TW March 24 edition.
ReplyDelete"As for its China programs YTB is no longer marketing Olympic tours with tickets to the games in Beijing. Sorensen said at the time Shanghai Springs and YTB contracted neither party was aware that Shanghai could not sell tickets in the US because they were part of the 75% allocated to the China Market."
HMMMMMM so this great tour op/travel agency has no idea they couldnt sell tickets to US? Come on. So after all the BS hoopla, your really NOT allowed to sell tickets to the olympics.
"the special events in packages will be removed" Clients basically now have to buy tickets on their own.
This is why you buy such large packages with trusted suppliers.
The other issue is that a number of the TOs that YTB "sells" (example, Apple) will not speak with the consumer who calls directly other than to a "help line" while actually traveling...so if it's before travel....they're SOL.
ReplyDeleteJohn asked:
ReplyDelete...if that RTA in Houston was making a reasonable amount of money with YTB...perhaps along the lines of what they are led to believe or maybe a LOT less. But say they were making $20K a year. Do you think that they are still wired to scam? Or are they more apt to scam because of the situation?
Honestly? I don't believe the RTA in Houston would have taken the time to build the business to a point where she was making 20k a year, that takes time and effort. Most people who do what she did don't just suddenly decide to do something like that... they start small and work their way up, so regardless of the amount of money she was making, for her, this was just to good to pass up.
She apparently advertised in an unapproved manner, and conducted business in an unapproved manner... so she may have intentionally set out to do exactly what she did... hook a large group and bilk them out of their money....
How long had this person been a rep? Your scenario could be correct, but I'm thinking that it would only hold up if she had beena YTBer for quite some time and actually become disallusioned over a period of months or even years... but if she was new? 3 months? 6 months even? No, not likely... since reallistically she should not have expected to be raking in huge profits in such a short time.
As for the checks you mentioned being handed out... that's across the board, not just YTB. All MLM's use that technique, and it's not just confined to MLM's, any company that has sales reps who work on commission do the same thing. I've been there, done that.. and unfortuantely was never the one on stage getting handed the big check.
I think the idea behind that is to make you see what you 'might' achieve, if you work hard, it's a motivator, or should be.
Again, I don't think the concept behind YTB is bad, I just think it's poorly executed, not enough checks and balances, too much concern on that bottom line. I certainly won't be signing up with them, I found out long ago that I'm no salesman, regardless of the business model.
Quick question re the Shanghai Spring - or Spring tours as it's now going by - If someone purchased the trip prior to finding out they couldn't sell Olympic tickets, would they be eligible for a full refund?
ReplyDeleteI agree that scams like the Houston incident are not confined to YTB people. Every industry is subject to 'bad apples' taking advantage of the consumer. What I do find hard to believe is that she didn't realize that her theft would be found out pdq? Maybe she's a member of PrePaid Legal as well. Maybe one of those 'cashfornothing' MLMs too, cause she's going to need both!
John said, "I Can see where it would be very tempting to just take the money and run."
ReplyDeleteOut of the mouth of a TTA. Better keep your eye on this guy!
Hey if Scott tells or alludes that I will be making tons of money. Or if Phil Piccolo does. Or if Chris Paraldi does. Or if Seligman does and I put it all on the line in hopes of the riches to come and they don't materialize....yes it would be tempting.
ReplyDeleteBut for someone that is making a fair and honest income--not so much.
You see, a vast majority of the people being hoodwinked into the program are those least able to afford it. I have spoken with them. The parking lot at the Founder's Tour demonstrated it (if cars are an indication)....the directors all had the nice cars up front but the vast majority were beaters.
So the talk sounds good...earn lots of money just like this guy who got a $250K check...travel to Tahiti for next to nothing just showing your card...write it all off on your taxes...expect checks weekly and if you can talk others into it you will be rolling in the dough. Reality is that the program fails the vast majority!
These folks are just making it by as it is and now YTB is taxing them another $50 a month and $500 to do so. I just received a solicitation last night almost demanding that I give up my upcoming "federal relief" check and buy into YTB.
TAKE A LOOK AT THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteYTB NOW AT $3.88!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IT THINK IT'S TIME FOR A LEVELOFF AFTER A WILD RIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last Trade: 3.88
Trade Time: 11:48AM ET
Change: 0.73 (23.17%)
Prev Close: 3.15
1y Target Est: N/A
Day's Range: 3.25 - 4.19
Good Question Eddie. Also noticed there was no "press release" about them not offering it anymore cause it wasnt valid in the first place..bummer.
ReplyDeleteNo body said TA's were exempt from being bad apples, ole. No one is exempt...remember Enron?
ReplyDeleteCan you answer my question about possible refunds on the 'Olympic' packages sold by YTB?
You know what Olescorekeeper you are a jerk and a hypocrite. Deflection is your tactic. Why don't you get out of your pjs and bunny slippers and get a real job? Oh, but that would be too hard for your little brain to actually work for a living! All you do all day is post here. Get a real job instead of relying on your downline and directing people to a website.
ReplyDeleteOLE--dig deeper. The company she worked with is a hybrid MLM. Not YTB, but she is not a TTA.
ReplyDeleteAs an aside, I spoke with the group organizer for that trip and put him in touch with some people. This had been going on for a long time.
The group leader is a Director with the Social Security Administration and all of his correspondence with the "agent" was via email from his ssa.gov address. Only an idiot would scam someone with an address ending in .gov!
Being a TTA does have it's unforseen responsibilities! I have to increase my ARC bond. Which means I'm selling more airline tickets than last year. Wasn't the internet supposed to be taking this biz away from me?
ReplyDeleteTalk about money hungry...
ReplyDeleteAn ad right here on Johns blog..
YTB-thinking of joining?
INSTEAD OF YTB-THINK GLOBAL RESORTS LUXURY TRAVEL AND EARN MILLIONS>
Wow, johm nice ad, not even try to earn millions, or learn how you could earn millions...just matter of fact.
Do you stand by your ad here?
Or do you not care because they pay you to have it here?
What? Did you think YTB had cornered the market on slimey deceptive advertising?
ReplyDeleteActually, I think the ad does a fine job of supporting the mission of this blog. Shows how MLM companies will just say anything to get a recruit.
If you like, I can dig up some YTB ads that also state you will earn millions. They are all over the place.
I yhink Global resorts is one of Tom Colemans faves.
ReplyDeleteI don't think John can control the ads...
Anonymous said..."You know what Olescorekeeper you are a jerk and a hypocrite."
ReplyDelete"Aw common Anonymouse a "jerk"..maybe..but a "hypocrite"?
Now that's beginning to hurt the Ole Scorekeeper's feelings. :>( I do have a habit of being annoyeristic though.
Deflection is your tactic.
Really? I thought the topic was about..Corrupt Travel Agents..No deflection here Anon.
Why don't you get out of your pjs and bunny slippers and get a real job?
Well actually, I have a "real job"...but I WOULD like to find some nice bunny slippers in a size 11. Bunny suit PJ's would be nice too..especially for winter.
Oh, but that would be too hard for your little brain to actually work for a living! All you do all day is post here.
Well Anon, maybe someday if you ever learn to leverage your income, you could post all day too! ;>)
Get a real job instead of relying on your downline and directing people to a website.
Sorry Anon, I'm have'n too much fun as a YTB RTA! I don't need a J-O-B (Just Over Broke). Smile.
OleScorekeeper
Traveling? Why pay a travel agent $30 to $100 more in fees for that airline ticket when you can go on-line and book it yourself and help fight cancer too! Click on this link...
National Foundation for Cancer Research
John said..."OLE--dig deeper."
ReplyDeleteInterestingly enough, I just did in my last post. You don't have to dig too deep to find TTA shenanigans. Their very much at the surface.
I suppose with money getting tight, more and more agents are resorting to thievery.
OleScorekeeper
John said..."The company she worked with is a hybrid MLM. Not YTB, but she is not a TTA."
ReplyDeleteJust curious, what hybrid MLM? She apparently operated a traditional "brick and mortar" agency. Take a look...
Many Claim They Were Ripped Off By A Mooresville Travel Agency
OleScorekeeper
Dig deeper you will find out!
ReplyDeleteI have some very sad news to report about Royal Caribbean. :>(
ReplyDeleteRoyal Caribbean Sinks To Junk Statis
OleScorekeeper
John...I tell you, I deeply admire your tenacity and respect your position on MLM and Travel. You've been able to ruffle some feathers and shed light on what may indeed be concerns with regard to MLM and travel. Being a TTA myself, many of your concerns are also shared by me, but honestly some are not. I hope you keep on keeping on, but comparatively, I see it as almost a far-fetched, wishful attempt such as that of Cindy Sheehan and the Iraq war as believed her protests would cause such a world-wide movement the pressure would be such Pres. Bush would have to end it. Although I may not agree with her primary position, I respect her right to raise the debate and her efforts brought to light several issues that military sought to correct (armor, weaponery, etc.). With the end in mind, did she really think her efforts would end the war? Probably not. Just as with this blog, it brings out valid concerns of what doesn't "mix" between MLMs and Travel and the acknowledgment by vendors, YTB and others at least to recognize it and work toward a solution. Granted, everything can't be fixed overnight, but by the actions taken (and not taken) by the majority of the industry, they are embracing the two as "one" and working to correct what needs to be fixed. I say keep doing what you're doing. You have a lot of insight to share and I enjoy reading your blog.
ReplyDelete"I have some very sad news to report about Royal Caribbean. :>(
ReplyDeleteRoyal Caribbean Sinks To Junk Statis
OleScorekeeper
Apr 4, 2008 3:00:00 PM"
Wow! that's some quality reporting from a YTBer - "statis"? Beautiful - set up a link and don't even use a correct spelling - yeah - she's got a lot of credibility, eh?
How interesting - if you actually READ the Forbe's peice bieng referenced it makes clear that it is the entire cruise industry that may be in trouble and uses the stocks of both RCL and CCL as an indicator of that!!!! Very disingenuous reporting!
ReplyDeletenyse: RCL - news - people )'s stock skimmed off 57 cents, or 1.6%, at $34.13, in afternoon trading Thursday. Shares of rival cruise operator Carnival (nyse: CCL - news - people ) also sank, losing 55 cents, or 1.3%, at $42.09.
ReplyDeleteOle Scorekeeper, had you really done your research you would have learned that she wasn't a TTA.
ReplyDeleteI would think that since YTBers insist upon referring to themselves as travel agents, they would be as concerned about these crimes as the TTAs are. Again the average consumer doesn't know the differnce between an untrained, uneducated MLMer and a traditional agent.
Every time an agent commits a crime, the mlmers come crawling out of the woodwork to finger point. Unless you have the IATA of the person who did it, no one has any business placing blame.
Anon said, "Wow! that's some quality reporting from a YTBer - "statis"? Beautiful - set up a link and don't even use a correct spelling - yeah - she's got a lot of credibility, eh?"
ReplyDeleteGood job Anon, glad I made your day. lol!
But again, the Ole Scorekeeper is a bit short of perfection and only guarantees accuracy 98% of the time.
Thanks for the spelling correction.
OleScorekeeper
Anonymous said..."Ole Scorekeeper, had you really done your research you would have learned that she wasn't a TTA."
ReplyDeleteOK, prove me wrong.
OleScorekeeper
"But again, the Ole Scorekeeper is a bit short of perfection and only guarantees accuracy 98% of the time."
ReplyDeleteYou think 98% accuracy is good? What if the Fire Department was only 98% accurate in getting to the right adress? what is United Airlines was had only a 98% accuracy in landings? ......
"statis" - you're a phonetic speller, are you?
I just watched the video after reading the story. Please take particular note of the final sentence from the newscaster: "The company that owns the travel website could not be reached for comment."
ReplyDeleteWill YTB dip into their more than ample petty cash fund and reimburse these people? I'm betting no, but it would make a hell of a public relations statement if they did, not to mention the morally correct way to do business. Just asking because I don't know, but wouldn't YTB be legally bound? It would make a good court case.
Olescrorekeeper, it seems that you're batting zero today. What's wrong, Alan? Have you been listening to Tom Coleman again?
ReplyDeleteSORRY I COULD NOT PROVIDE STOCK REPORTS TODAY BUT...YTB CLOSED UP ANOTHER RECORD DAY AT $3.68 ON A VOLUME OF 4,433,150...WOW! EVEN HIT $4.19 AT ONE POINT!! GLAD IT'S LEVELED OFF A BIT. TOO WILD A RIDE!
ReplyDeleteHAVE A NICE WEEKEND AND LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT WEEK.
Martha--
ReplyDeleteThey might reimburse them. But it does set a bad precedent from a business perspective. On the interview I did in Baltimore, YTB refused to contact the station and only did so when they learned that the national network was going to pick it up. As soon as they learned of that, they called the reporter and in fact did make the people whole.
Where is ytbscam?
ReplyDeleteHe has been curiously absent the past couple of days. He obviously is in a deep funk about the price of YTB stock. He was predicting the demise of YTB as recently as 10 days ago and was almost orgasmic when the stock was trading below a dollar. YTB stock is his "thing" and life has to be difficult right now.
What length of time is necessary in order to file a "missing person" report? I am deeply concerned about his welfare.
John, I'm not understanding. You said they might reimburse them and then said they did make the people whole. So they did reimburse?
ReplyDeleteI haven't gone anywhere. And I haven't gone silent. As I have said the "pump and dump" game has only begun. People are going to lose alot of money again. Pump up the price, and maybe all of the Execs can purchase jets when they dump the stock again and leave countless amounts of people "shrugging their shoulders".
ReplyDeleteOrgasmic? Hiding? Hardly. Laughing at all the morons that get suckered into this scam...thats what I'm laughing at. Thinking I will disappear....not a chance. Keep posting anon.....
Martha--
ReplyDeleteIn the case in Baltimore, YTB refused to talk to the media until the media looked like it was going national. Only then did they step forward and reimburse the client for the stolen funds. I have not read my notes, but I believe it was about $15K. I do not know if they will do this in Houston or not.
As a business, it sets a bad precedent and puts YTB between a rock and a hard place.
If they reimburse, it almost gives carte blanche for RTAs to continue doing it and having the company reimburse the clients. RTA gets a lot of money, YTB loses a little and client gets reimbursed or a vacation.
If they don't reimburse, the fact that they do not vett out any of their people and they recruit from Yale to Jail will become widely known and then they will not have people signing up with them (their prime business) or booking travel for fear they are being scammed.
The answer is to "legitimize" themselves and stop all the recruiting bull and focus on selling travel as a legitimate host agency. Provide training by qualified trainers and require some sort of admission criteria to the prpgram other than a $500 check.
John, got it. Thanks for the answer. Still, if YTB wants to be called legitimate, they should reimburse the Houston people. It would be a tax write off for them as a bad debt business expense. That amount of money is nothing to YTB.
ReplyDeleteI think Doug should chime in on this. He's reading it because he said so on his bog. Since he's such a pillar of morality, I'd like to hear what he has to say on the subject. Maybe he'll put it on his bog.
Martha--from a business standpoint they cannot afford to do that. Think about it, they have recruited 130,000 people that are not making money and are not trained to sell travel and service clients. How many are going to screw up? And now you can see how huge the problen ought to be for YTB.
ReplyDeleteThey OUGHT to require a fidelity bond on each of their RTAs obtained at the RTA expense for the average amount of sales...similar to waht ARC requires of an agency.
This just proved the point of all the TTA's. The main reason we are against these MLM's is because these untrained "RTA's" give us a bad name. Notice in the clip they just kept refering to the RTA as a travel agent? Which she was not! The average person has never heard of YTB and will not have a clue what it is. So all they heard was that this was done by a travel agent which was not true. I just wish something could be done about just anyone refering to themselves as a travel agent!!
ReplyDeleteJohn, considering the ratio of fees for websites and everything else that isn't travel related, I think they could afford to do it. After all, their business of selling travel is less than 15% of their income and the rest goes towards buying jets and new homes. Am I not seeing things clearly because most of the bookings are done on the websites? The one in Houston wasn't. I would really love for this to go to court so a jury could decide who is responsible.
ReplyDeleteMartha, part of the problem with YTB reimbursing RTA clients is that technically, all RTAs are running their own businesses. They are independent contractors, not employees of YTB. YTB is acting as "host". If YTB reimburses the clients, this would set a precedence that the IRS could look at them and say that all those RTAs are actually employees (bad thing). I would guess that somewhere in the YTB contract an RTA signs, it is stated that YTB is not responsible for errors and omissions due to the fault of the RTA (or when the RTA runs off with the $$).
ReplyDeletehttp://www.travelweekly.com/Article.aspx?id=171340
ReplyDeletehttp://www.travelweekly.com/Article.aspx?id=171340
ReplyDeleteYour point?
The stock has lot 30% of it's value since opening today - a Pump & Dump for sure.
ReplyDelete34.5% loss for the day....
ReplyDeletePump & Dump? Hey Scam, why are you posting as an anon again? You’re a joke and an embarrassment to your auntie!
ReplyDelete