Late yesterday afternoon, I got my daily dose of travel news from Travel Trade where they discussed the failure of YTB's appeal for the return of their IATA number. When I began to really think about this, I have to laugh.
Back in October of 2007, IATAN was THE credential to have according to YTB. It was all over their recruiting material and everyone was looking to have the IATAN card for the free and discounted travel.
November rolls around and YTB gets tossed to the curb by IATAN and Royal Caribbean. The response from YTB is "we don't need no Royal Caribbean or no stinking IATAN."
January 2008 enters the picture and it seems that the provisional license to sell travel in Canada is predicated on having an IATA endorsement. Well all of a sudden, "maybe we do need that stinking IATAN". But that does not seem possible because Scott Tomer ran his mouth off saying that IATAN tossed them because YTB was a competitor of IATAN. So they bought a travel agency. But it seems that they were unaware that the IATA numbers are not necessarily transferable.
February 2008 finds YTB hiring a big gun travel lawyer Al Anolik to plead their case for reinstatement to the Travel Agency Commissioner. Wow, YTB must be beginning to understand that IATAN is kind of a big deal.
Late March and early April, YTB is convinced that if they maybe buy a travel company in the US, like say Hickory Travel Systems, the Travel Agency Commissioner will HAVE to see it their way and give them back their number.
And here we are to April 16th. A no go. It ain't happening. The Commissioner completely held up the original ruling.
So, what was the response from YTB? Well, let me quote Al Anolik:
The decision is actually a victory for YTB. We are using the code and can use it because we got it from ARC. IATA cannot control a YTB in the US that is fully accredited by ARC. We quit using the IATA symbol a long time ago. We are are going to continue business as usual and as for flashing the IATA card. we won't have any IATA symbol on our cards. IATA cannot interfere with our relationship with ARC and if they did, they wil have an antitrust suit.
Wow, so it seems like YTB is back to the "we don't need no stinking IATAN" again! And it seems that Mr. Anolik may have drank the kool aid in the YTB cafeteria because only YTB logic can somehow say that losing a legal challenge is exactly what they wanted. I wonder if that is the tactic they would use if the FTC, SEC, or the IRS came after them?
So what is it guys? Is IATA something you want or not? Seems like you wanted it for recruiting. Seems like you wanted it enough to hire an expensive attorney to go get it for you. Seems like you wanted it enough to buy an agency in Toronto. Seems like you wanted it enough to open negotiations to purchase Hickory. But your attorney says that the denial of the IATA number is really the victory you all sought in the first place.
Wow, that is almost as clear as the compensation plan!
They don;t know what the hell they want other than $50 a month from 131,000 people. All else is irrelevant.
ReplyDeleteBut I wonder if any of their issues would have happened had they hired Al at the beginning rather than Ted the MLM King? I mean at least get someone that know something about travel if you are going to pretend to be a travel company
They did want the IATA reinstated but the they didn't get it. The victory was not the denial in reinstatement, it was the ability to continue using the code through ARC. Don't read too much into things in order to find fault. And clean up you noodles on the floor.
ReplyDeleteSo they care, but they lost, so now they don't. Simple really. Is Hickory still appealing to them now that it means no IATAN, probably not many employees, and probably even less as far as clientele agencies?
ReplyDeleteI think the loss of IATA accrediation IS a big deal if your main goal is to sell travel. But, when 70% of your revenue comes from website sales, then maybe not so much. Also, the vast majority of rta's would not qualify for the IATAN card anyway. I personally would not work with an agency that didn't have it but since most ytbers don't even know what it is...
ReplyDeleteHonestly, i don't think we should assume that they won't be able to buy and Agency and be allowed to use that IATA - I think what will count will be their percentage of ownership in whatever Agency they purchase.
ReplyDeleteIt is interesting though, that they with Anolik's assistance, challenged IATA to get reinstated but in the end they find themselves in the exact same position as before, but that's a "victory"?
I am curious to know what the current YTB RTA ID Cards look like now - do the say "CLIA XXXXXXXX"? Do they say "ARC XXXXXXXX"? Does anyone know of any other legitimate Agency that issues ID Cards with those numbers on them>
CTA in MD
John and TTAs -
ReplyDeleteMarc Mancini - one of the most respected travel trainers in the travel industry worldwide according to TTAs.
Marc Mancini - helps develop a training program for YTB. Forget about his accomplishments. He is now a lemming.
Alexander Anolik - highly respected travel attorney. According to many TTAs, the #1 travel attorney in the U.S. in his knowledge and expertise.
Alexander Anolik - represents and defends YTB in their battle with IATAN. Now a "big gun travel lawyer who has drank the kool aid in the YTB cafeteria" according to the infamous anti-YTB blogger.
Do business with the dark side and the TTA world will turn on you in a New York minute.
Hypocrisy on display.
YTB and TRAVEL: A Great Mix!
I honestly don't care what either of them do. I'm sure they are getting paid quite well.
ReplyDeleteDivert Divert Divert.
Who made Al the number one travel attorney in the US? If Marcs classes are so great how come so few people take them? Are Al and Marc working for YTB because they believe in the MLM system or because they are being paid well to provide a service? YTB sells websites and you don't need professional recognition from the travel industry to do that.
ReplyDeleteJohn's angry that not many found his IATA news yesterday to be so exciting. It really was a flop. So he is now pissed at you guys.
ReplyDeleteYesterday he said..."31 comments and none on the topic at hand. Just bickering about Expedia.
But this is typical in that when YTB cannot discus anything intelligently, they will deflect. I think there may be a class on that at the convention!"
See what I mean? You all stole his thunder! And BTW Johnny, it was not just YTBers it was TTA's too that engaged in the Expedia discussion.
Nice post today Johnny. I especially like the picture of yourself with your head up your xxx. That's quite a trick. Did you train for the pic or does it just come naturally?
John, all I can do is chuckle on this one and shake my head. :-)
ReplyDeleteThank you for putting this timeline together, it sure reconfirms to me that I'm proud to be a member of IATAN and thank goodness they understand the importance of having that credential.
THANK YOU IATAN!!! - woo hoo
The YTB folks are awfully quiet today. I guess the IATAN issue isn't important. It isn't to them since they don't sell travel. They sell websites.
ReplyDeleteI found this amusing and hope you all do too:
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Date: 2008-04-18, 11:06AM PDT
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I think that very clearly, the issue for IATAN is that YTB was putting the number on the ID cards, identifying it as IATAN and giving it to members who did not qualify for an IATAN card - thus creating a misconception that they were actually entitled to the perks that IATAN-qualified Agents are. It is THAT behavior that qualifies(ied) YTB as a "Card Mill" and was clearly in violation of the very clear and well-known rules.
ReplyDeleteCTA in MD
Regarding IATAN, nothing to get concerned about.
ReplyDeleteLimitations live only in our minds. But if we use our imaginations, our possibilities become limitless.
- JAMIE PAOLINETTI
Our corporate leaders have made millions of dollars selling BILLIONS of dollars in the life insurance industry. They are truly recognized business leaders. That's something that some on this blog will never come close to as they tend to "depend on their eyes while their imaginations are out of focus". - TWAIN
Stock has stair-stepped up for the last 3 days in a row closing up .22 at $2.70.
Have a nice weekend.
OleScorekeeper
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Maybe recognized as mlm business leaders, but not with any travel credentials. Not having IATA is going to hurt. YTB doesn't know that cause YTB doesn't know anything about travel. you sell websites.
ReplyDeleteYou have a good weekend too
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI think that very clearly, the issue for IATAN is that YTB was putting the number on the ID cards, identifying it as IATAN and giving it to members who did not qualify for an IATAN card - thus creating a misconception that they were actually entitled to the perks that IATAN-qualified Agents are. It is THAT behavior that qualifies(ied) YTB as a "Card Mill" and was clearly in violation of the very clear and well-known rules.
CTA in MD
I agree 100%. I know of one RTA that was guilty of what you said. How many more RTAs were guilty of breaking the rules?
rod -
ReplyDeleteYou take the cake for the person who talks out of both sides of his mouth.
"I was for YTB prior to being against YTB. I want to be part of YTB, but not really. I really like YTB, but then again, I don't."
Shades of John Kerry in 2004 -
YTB and TRAVEL: A Great Mix!
"Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI think that very clearly, the issue for IATAN is that YTB was putting the number on the ID cards, identifying it as IATAN and giving it to members who did not qualify for an IATAN card - thus creating a misconception that they were actually entitled to the perks that IATAN-qualified Agents are. It is THAT behavior that qualifies(ied) YTB as a "Card Mill" and was clearly in violation of the very clear and well-known rules.
CTA in MD
I agree 100%. I know of one RTA that was guilty of what you said. How many more RTAs were guilty of breaking the rules?"
I suspect just about every single one who joined for the "travel perks".
CTA in MD
Please answer these questions:
ReplyDeleteWhat is the benefit of having an IATA number?
How does not having an IATA number cause a hinderance on the ability to sell travel?
How is it distinguished from an ARC number?
Isn't IATAN a perk/discount card for those who earn $5000 or more in travel commissions?
Why haven't any TTA's answered the questions two posts up? Must be flummoxed.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeletePlease answer these questions:
What is the benefit of having an IATA number?
How does not having an IATA number cause a hinderance on the ability to sell travel?
How is it distinguished from an ARC number?
Isn't IATAN a perk/discount card for those who earn $5000 or more in travel commissions?
Well, for those that are ignorant, I will answer this.
1.. The benefit of IATAN is that you are endorsed by the International Air Transport Network which enables you to sell air for foreign carriers (non US) that do not have an agreement with a US carrier via ARC. It is also the internationally recognized "credential" of the industry--something YTB no longer has.
2. See the answer above. While it may not cause one to not be able to sell any travel, many suppliers will not accept a CLIA number or no number for commissionable bookings. So it does hinder. But of course, when you deal with Chinese outfits and Two Fly Free people, they will likey just accept anyone that comes along.
3. IATAN issues and controls the numbers and allows ARC to issue them when an agency is looking to sell domestic Air but not necessarily international. IATAN controls the actual numbers
3. It is an identification card and does not entitle you to any perks. However it is recognized as the industry credential and you need to do something to get it--sell travel. It is not issued when you cut a check to Coach for $500. IATA/IATAN has soem scruples!
No flummoxing here and no charge for the Travel 101 lesson!
likely not likey
ReplyDeletesome not soem
Spelling 101 lesson.
No charge.
"It is an identification card and does not entitle you to any perks. However it is recognized as the industry credential and you need to do something to get it--sell travel. It is not issued when you cut a check to Coach for $500. IATA/IATAN has soem scruples!"
ReplyDeleteSo why do you need an IATAN identification/credential card? When do you use it and for what, if not to travel like an insider! get discounted travel! free trips! and upgrades galore!?
There needs to be a distinction here. IATA is an organization that, among other things, assigns the agencies numbers used to identify themselves. IATAN is a recognition that an agent has achieved a certain level of sales. To received an IATAN card, an agent must collect commissions in the amount of $5000 in a year (12 calendar months). So just having an IATA number on your "travel agent ID card" doesn't help worth diddly squat. Some suppliers provide discounted services if you have something like a CLIA card (which requires that your agency have a CLIA number, which YTB doesn't).
ReplyDeleteI'm not an agent so I can get free trips. I'm in it for the money.
Most YTB members (not agents) are either in it for the "free" travel or for the upstream revenue. A great MLM term.
YTB does have a CLIA number. Also, CLIA provided training at our Funshine event in Orlando last September. It was the largest single training event in CLIA history. 5000 RTAs.
ReplyDelete