Last Thursday, Richard Turen penned a fantastic column. I may even make copies and distribute it to my clients. Richard really lays this out well and clearly demonstrates exactly why someone who purchased the title of "travel agent"--referring, certified, or otherwise, is indeed nowhere close to being what they claim!
Dear Mom:You once asked me when I was going to get serious and find a "real job." It has taken a few years, but I wanted to let you know that I have found something really useful to do with my life. Mom, I am a travel agent.
We travel agents have come out of the vocational closet now, and we are openly admitting what we do for a living. We are rediscovering our collective voice, and we have discovered a new pride.......
Please click link above to read entire column!
John,
ReplyDeleteIt is a great column. But, be careful before you print it out for your customers. as you should add a paragraph that reads....
I spend countless hours obsessing over what I could do next to help a few hundred thousand people who are looking for a few extra bucks each month to feed their families or put gas in the tank lose that opportunity because of my selfish crusade. Thanks mom for keeping me focused.
As usual the RTA's turn it around and it's poor me. You know what you RTA's are lazy. If you truly cared about putting food on the table you would get off your butts and get a real job with a company that rips you off. You would get off your butts and *Gasp* get an education. Go back to school, get your GED, get your college degree instead of whining about your lot in life and how John is selfish. If anything you are lazy, unmotiviated and stupid to fall for a scam such as YTB. Get a life, get a real job instead of a fantasy MLM dream, get an eduaction and quit blaming everyone else for your problems!!!!!
ReplyDeleteOh, and thankss for ruining the spirit of the column by your whining you are being selfless...Cut the crap!
That should have been get a real job with a company that doesn't rip you off, require you to recruit a down line and pay Coach every month while the top gets rich and you don't.
ReplyDeleteYTB has no business in Travel because you don't get it, never will.
Um excuse me, but many of the RTAs, myself included have "real jobs" as you put it, have an education, and YTB is something on the side that helps. My involvement in YTB is to supplement our household income so my wife can stay home and raise our children. So, the extra 1500 per month really helps. If John had his way, I would have to send my kids to day care. So, yes, John is selfish. I am not bothering him, I am trying to make some extra money for my family. Why is that such a problem?
ReplyDeleteI did not think YTB allowed it's RTAs to have JOBs. Isn't that the whole pitch---fire your boss, get paid to travel, no more Just Over Broke for you?
ReplyDeleteApparently it is not working out too well for you. As to the $1500 a month...CONGRATULATIONS you are in the top .0534% of earners in t company! Good job! But what about the 99.9466% of the people in the company that earned less than $18K in a year? What about the other 99.6414% of the people earning less than $1850 for the year? What about the 95.6428% of the people that are earning less than $100 a year?
And I agree, the education thing is a bit snarky. Education is certainly not an equalizer for gullibility.
John,
ReplyDeletewhat about all those people?
I have several on my team that simply buy their travel from themselves and the comission back exceeds the expense. Even if they "earned" 5 bucks just to go to a different website. remember these are people who were only buying from orbitz, expedia, travelocity. So for them even if they net 5 bucks at the end of the year, it made sense. That is what most of you do not get. For many people, it is about something small on the side. For me, like I mentioned it was about making some good enough money to keep our children with a parent.
The other anon's poster is my biggest concern....you (collective) say we aren't a threat to you. I am ok with that opinion. But, I have to ask, what drives the anger about our company if not a threat? Why does that anon poster care if someone gets a "real job"? What difference does it make to him/her?
If YTB is not a threat, why can't I make an adult decision on my own to get involved with the company?
If you do care so much about others not getting "ripped off" then why don't you care that I am utilizing the opportunity with YTB to properly raise my children?
$449.95 to join
ReplyDelete$599.40 in website fees
$1049.95 TOTAL EXPENSE
$5 INCOME
So please explain this math to me?
I cannot speak for the other anon, but a lot of the anger to YTB is way that you have abused the industry. You take advantage (granted not your fault) and exploit (all your fault) the suppliers. One of the largest fired you. An industry association terminated you. Other smaller suppliers fired you. Even your top supplier has restricted you.
You have taken a good name (travel agent) and bastardized it by putting the word "referring" in front of it and giving someone wiht a credit card some hokey credential and set them free to represent themselves as a legitimate insider in the industry. You are not!
What is the line of work where your currently are employed...you know the JOB that pays the bills? I am sure I can find a parralel you will understand to demonstrate!
I am a working mother, a travel agent at home with my kids, and work a FULL-TIME JOB doing so. I find it appalling what MLM has done to this industry. We've all worked long and hard at obtaining out credentials, knowing our clients, busting our asses for them. Then along come the RTA's who simply have a credit card/checking account to join, are handed a card, and spout to the world that they are travel agents. NO YOU MOST CERTAINLY ARE NOT. You are a website operator. You deserve nothing from this industry for that. You compare yourselves to Expedia, Orbitz and such, even that is a stretch. They offer some sort of assistance with clients, and have proper training. ALL OF THEM HAVE TRAINING. Not the select few who maybe decide to take a class here and there.
ReplyDeletefirst the math.
ReplyDelete1050 the first year is the expense
if they bring in in comissions 1055, that would be revenue, therefore income would be 5 dollars.
Again, that is the black and white expanation. Add to that the immense potential tax savings for those that aren't just buying their own travel as you can't do that as a "hobbyist". As an example, in our first year we only profitted 1200 as we began late in the year, but on paper we showed a loss which offset some of our other income. Second year we made just under 15k, but when tax time came, our income, on paper was $874, thus almost all of that 15k was "tax free". Those other expenses were things that I was doing anyway, cell phone, bought new computer, mileage on my car, etc.
I know of a very specific parallel in my line of work. So, it is interesting that you brought it up. I will say this, for those in my field that have a "qualification" when they put extra effort in they can shine through, those unqualified will fall out of the industry. And, it has happened.
Also, in the last 2 years YTB has done a tremendous amount to undo the bad name of referring travel agent. There are sales requirements before even getting a card, there is extensive training available. I would encourage you to go to YTB's funshine event in September to see all of the vendors that "restrict" us.
Dear Son:
ReplyDeleteI am so thankful you have been able to justify your soul on the profession you have chosen. Even though you are my son I must inform you that our small community here in Florida has found a wonderful opportunity for travel that I'm sure you are aware of. We have all been able to purchase and share a website of our own for travel. We all use it and encourage friends and family to use it. We pay a small monthly fee - but the beauty of it is it's our business. We actually have travel parties where we look at different places to travel and plan our next excursion. We have been able to learn so much about the world just because of our little "business". I can definitely appreciate your own life and career. What a wonderful opportunity we have been able to enjoy. Thank you for your inspiration.
Mom
YTB CREATED the referring travel agent---why are they undoing it?
ReplyDeleteRegardless of your math (and I took you at your word on the $5 as being income to the RTA and not the end result net) what you show here puts you leaps and bounds ahead of at least 90% of the folks in YTB.
The system is programed to fail the majority. And while that may be OK to some, it is designed to take advantage of those people and that number along the way to the benefit of those like you. And all of a sudden I am the anti-Christ? And let's not forget the damage you have done to the reputations of every single legitimate travel agent.
Your representation as a part of the industry is a joke. Let's say you are a CPA and all of a sudden you are seeing signs nailed to trees and telephone poles saying become a CPA and get your CPA card for $500. And then to "qualify" they give you a first grade math test. It sucks..no? And what would suck more is if the IRS accepted that math quiz as a credential (yes we know our suppliers are to blame). Now all of a sudden, because some guy has developed a way to con 139000 people out of $500 and $50 a month there is a huge population of "CPAs" running around all making nothing, but swearing they are rolling in the dough--simpoly to weed out the next buffoon that will open the checkbook
Dear Mom--
ReplyDeleteThanks for your note. I appreciate your support. Funny how now that you have joined this little "club" you seem to have alienated all of your family.
When dad left you he said you were an asshole. I did not want to believe him, but now I can see his was probably correct.
I hope the trailer is doing well and that there are no hurricanes planned for the upcoming season. But if so, I am sure all your little travel cult friends will have a way to get you to someplace safe.
From--
Your son
Wait a second, am I beginning to sense that the RTAs are not so enamored with Travel Weekly for printing this article?
ReplyDeleteI mean they did name Kimmy one of the most influential and they named then the 35th biggest agency.
How dare Travel Weekly publish such trash.
You RTA's just don't get it. You have whored up the travel industry. And, if you really want to supplement your income there are plenty of legit jobs out there like umping or reffing your kids games. That pays a heck of a lot more than YTB does.
ReplyDelete"But, I have to ask, what drives the anger about our company if not a threat? Why does that anon poster care if someone gets a "real job"? What difference does it make to him/her?"
ReplyDeleteWhat drives the anger? Have you not been reading this blog? I will tell you.
1.) You make the CLAIM in your recruiting, "Travel like an insider" "Be a Travel Agent" "Get the perks travel agents get etc. etc. You use FALSE claims to get people to sign up.
2.) YTB is an MLM/Pyramid/Ponzi Scheme. You are not a LEGIT travel agency, yet you claim you are.
3.) YTB's Business Model is flawed. You have people at the top without any travel experience thumbing their noses at us.
4.) YTB recruits minorities and those who have fallen on hard times. They promise a "dream" of millions, yet very few make any money.
5.) RTA's are not trained to service their customers nor do they want to. You sell websites not travel.
6.) RTA's deflect criticism of the company. Come on NO company is perfect yet you all defend YTB to the nth degree. You all are wearing blinders where YTB is concerned.
7.) There are dozens and dozens of host agencies out there that will take you IF you truly want to sell and learn the travel business. Problem is you don't. You don't want to learn you want to keep selling websites.
8.) You are annoying and embarrassing at trade shows etc. The majority do not conduct themselves with ANY professionalism at all.
uhm...yeah...what she said!
ReplyDeleteName one MLM business that ruined an industry?
ReplyDeleteMary Kay took out the cosmetics business - NO!
Amway wiped out the grocery/department store shoppers - No!
Excel killed the long distance business - absolutely not!
MLM Travel won't exterminate the traditional travel agencies either.
Does any travel agent out there really have any true stories of how these MLM businesses have wiped them out? I'm curious to know if as much stink as you all put up there must be some bottom line financial loss to your business or you just need to find a target to blame something on?
Please let me know because I'm contemplating one of these MLM travel businesses.
That cult in Texas said the same thing, "We are providing for our families."
ReplyDeleteDave--it is not about wiping anyone out. If you want to join, go right ahead.
ReplyDeleteThe issue is about how they are tarnishing the name of an industry. Did Amway--you bet. did Excel--you bet...did Pimeamerica--you bet...did Prepaid legal--you bet!
Dave-Do you need hooked on phonecs to understand what we have been saying? We ARE NOT AFRAID of YTB wiping out Travel Agents. What we are pissed off at is how you whored up the industry and do not service your clients. You give us a bad name because we have to mop up the floor after YTB screws up. You mock us! If you want to be a travel agent go to ASTA's site. You do not what that is don't you?
ReplyDeleteAs to Mary Kay go to this website. They are as screwed up as the rest of them.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.pinktruth.com/
Very little people make any money off of these schemes and you spend a lot of money in the process.
The TTAs are all worked up as usual.
ReplyDeleteThey have had their travel world to themselves for years and don't like it when someone else rains on their little parade.
Sandy has the talking points down pat.
The "green" TTA . . .
All recyled material.
I have given the clue countless times as to why the average RTA stays with YTB.
But the "educated" TTAs just cannot understand it.
They ignor it.
And claim that RTAs are losing money left and right.
One last time . . .
Owning a home business is a great tax strategy.
It requires:
Pursuit of a profit.
That you keep proper records.
All can be done with YTB.
Saving money is the same as making money.
And that money does not show up on YTB's Financial Disclosure Statement . . .
The form that John has posted 10 places in his office, car and home.
He loves the YTB Financial Disclosure Statement.
He can quote it in Spanish, French and in his sleep.
As TTAs wipe tears from their eyes as they read Richard's letter . . .
YTB keeps growing and growing.
But the "educated" TTAs just cannot understand it.
ReplyDeleteThey ignor it.
The irony of this statement is not lost on me oh educated RTA!
YTB is NOT growing as fast as you might think. In the first quarter, you only brought on a net of about 7000 RTAs and that included expansion into three new countries. Your attrition rate is increasing as well, so apparently all those tax deductions are not playing out--or maybe the message has not been received.
"YTB keeps growing and growing."
ReplyDeleteAnd, how many drop out Ole? Seems like we can never get a straight answer on that. You always deflect back to the financials which are a joke. Crotch has manipulated them so you RTA's believe in the miracle of YTB. You never really answer our other complaints about not servicing the customer, screwing up the Industry and being an embarrassment. Let's not forget from Jail to Yale recruiting which ole is a part of having spent time in the big house.
Just because someone slaps up a website does not make them a travel agent.
Richard is spot on and you RTA's can't handle the truth as usual.
Maybe you need a career change ever think of that YTB RTA's.
There is nothing wrong with the article. I like it. I say good for the author to be proud of what he does. There is nothing wrong with travel weekly for printing it. There is even nothing wrong with JOhn for putting it here.
ReplyDeleteOf course, the author doesn't metion YTB.
And to echo OLE's point which TTAs seem to ignore when talking about the numbers.
Hypothetical here....
Let's say you have a household income of 50,000 from a job.
you probably pay close to 15k in taxes. So, you bring home 35,000
Now, enter YTB or ANY work at home business for that matter.
You PURSUE income and your EXPENSES from said opporunity amount to 10,000. Now your household income is 40,000 and your tax burden may decrease to around 10 or 12 k.
So your involvement in YTB just saved you 3 to 5 k in taxes. That savings to a family making 50,000 is huge AND MOST IMPORTANTLY it won't show up on YTB"s financials.
OK< again I ask here beacuse none of the TTAs are answering it.
ReplyDeleteWhat is the big deal?
You claim there is no threat, but then say that we threaten your industry by "whoring it up".
So, which is it?
Threat or no threat?
If a threat, then be honest and work harder and overcome it. DARWINISM at its finest. If it is as complicated as you say it is then your experience and knowledge will overcome the "less educated"
If it isn't a threat, then STFU already.
I have no idea what STFU means, but I am guessing it's not very nice.
ReplyDeleteI think its been said a hundred times over, but YTB is not a threat to agents. The issue is that YTB has no training standards for their RTAs.
YTB has training, but let's say that they didn't, if YTB isn't a threat then WHY DO YOU CARE?????
ReplyDeleteI do know what STFU means, and maybe you should take your own advice. You obviously don't know anything about the industry you are talking about. If you did, you would have an idea what the uproar is about. You are not a threat to any of us, your a disgrace and embarassment to us. But since you own a website and know exactly jack shit about travel, take your own advice.
ReplyDeleteHere is a reason we laugh at you fools.
ReplyDeleteHere is a post from CL from a poster from 03/09/08. The "travel agent wanna-be" isn't even aware that his own company cannot sell RCCL. HOW THE HELL CAN YOU NOT KNOW THIS?
YTB :Scary to traditional Travel agents not scam < STuell > 03/09 18:37:56
It is foolish to call YTB a scam. It scares traditonal travel agents, who will speak out against it here, but it is totally real and
very successful. There is not better way
to enter and develop a travel business. Take
a look at it and decide for yourself. You will
understand why the competition is slandering
YTB. The YTB travel and ticket sites online are
the same as any of the current industry leaders.
YTB has recently been outselling ALL other
agencies for Royal Caribbean cruises.
Yes, I AM an agent. As for not knowing Jack about travel, I know of no agency that has better training than YTB. No, I am not including a link
here; just the truth.
ReplyDeleteYTB has training, but let's say that they didn't, if YTB isn't a threat then WHY DO YOU CARE?????
Your name is William Wadsworth and your family is a very prestigious family in your local town for generations. You own some very respectable businesses and are considered "wealthy" by some. You are proud of your family and their accomplishments.
Now all of a sudden, ANOTHER William Wadsworth moves into town with a lot of fanfare. HE is married to Mumsy Wadsworth and she also shares the same name as your mumsy. But these Wadsworths are not like you. His main source of income is selling crack to your son as he leaves middle school. His son has been trying to get into your daughter's pants for six months. They walk around town making reservations at restaurants using their (your) name. They stiff waitresses. The police are called to their home weekly for domestic diuspute. Their name (yours) is in the police blotter almost daily, and now there is an ad on Craigslist about a sex party hosted by William and Mumsy Wadsworth--complete with photos of the action and a phone number to call to RSVP for the party.
William Wadsworth (the other one) did not make his car payment and the local Bentley dealer reported it to the credit bureaus. Now not being sure who is who, the credit bureaus report the delinquency on William Wadsworth (you) and William Wadsworth (him). Even though you never owned a Cocaine White Beltley, you are getting blamed for his behavior. Restaurants will not take your reservation. His son finally succeeded and now your daughter is knocked up. Your son is a crack head, and Mumsy decides she cannot take it any longer because the pharamcist will not renew her Prozac prescription.
But that's ok now isn't it.
"YTB has recently been outselling ALL other
ReplyDeleteagencies for Royal Caribbean cruises."
Really?
LOL Karla, I was just about to type the same thing. Kinda hard to outsell RCCL cruises when your not even allowed to book RCCL becauase they don't want your business. But they are a "minor" vendor anyway right YTB?
ReplyDeleteLisa,
ReplyDeleteYTB needs nobody! How long before they buy their first passenger plane? Or Cruiseline? I'm sure someone out there is willing to sell them a 20-30 year old product!
Then Coach won't need anyone! He can fly and pack the cruise with the YTBers. Wow that sounds like a ton of fun! Thousands of people trying to sell websites to each other!
Well, JOhn, as an RTA with YTB I appreciate your attempt at humor. In fact, I actually laughed aloud.
ReplyDeleteThe only problem here is this....the actions you spoke of in your "analogy" are reprehensible to most people.
I would be willing to bet that most people don't find YTB to be anywhere near on par with that comparison.
Sure, you do, but that is your opinion.
I find people everyday who like YTB AND believe it is an opportunity to better themselves and their financial and/or leisure situation.
I have put traditional travel agents into the business. They realize it an opportunity to leverage their time and efforts.
I put int stay at home moms so they can stay at home and raise their children and make a few extra bucks.
I have put in teachers so they can still teach our children at the salary they have.
I have put in pastors so they can put together retreats and group travel to raise money for their congregation.
I have put in CPAs, attorneys, MDs, meteorologists, car detailers, auto mechanics, residential contractors, executives, nurses, bookkeepers all to better themselves and their families.
I, last week put in a mason who just lost his job. He signed up because he has a close cousin who travels all the time for business. He WAS booking exclusively on travelocity, not anymore, now his bookings will sustain, even if it is a little bit, his cousin while he is looking for a job,
I put in a concert pianist who books with expedia and spends 250 days a year in a hotel, now for $50 per month, he is booking through his own website.
I put in a wedding planner, who now will have brides and grooms register with YTBweddings...she has now enhanced her business.
Off the top of my head that is all I can think of, certainly not crack heads and whores.
In fact, in my entire downline, I can honestly say that I don't have any crackheads or whores.
But, one retired sherriffs deputy who used to bust crackheads and whores...does that count?
But, I did honestly laugh at your creative writing.
Anon,
ReplyDeleteWith the amount of people YTB claims to recruit, such as yourself, I'm confused that EVERYONE in the world isn't on board. Another liar in our mists.
But that's what YTBs foundation is built on...lies...lies and more lies.
Old Coach tried that buying the cruise ship----as a matter of fact he is sailing on it on Friday with it 50% vacant, so apparently the RTAs are not as enthused about sailing with the Coach as his ego might think.
ReplyDeleteAnon---you recruited a lot of people. It seems that John's blog is drawing only the top 1% of YTB folks as readers.
And don;'t be so sure that most people don't think the analogy was too far removed.
In response to Sandy's anger and the same ol’ opinionated talking points, I’ll cover them yet again backed with facts.
ReplyDelete1.) "You make the CLAIM in your recruiting, "Travel like an insider" "Be a Travel Agent" "Get the perks travel agents get etc. etc. You use FALSE claims to get people to sign up."
Meeting requirements and qualifications, as an RTA I can travel “like an insider” and receive similar perks that TTAs have been receiving for decades. There’s nothing false, misleading, or open to interpretation about this.
2.) YTB is an MLM/Pyramid/Ponzi Scheme. You are not a LEGIT travel agency, yet you claim you are.
Two more opinions ignorantly spouted to be conveyed as facts. It's amazing how so many TTAs still do not understand simple business structures but claim to own their own business. No wonder so many are going out of business.
You're correct that YTB International, Inc. has a subsidiary company (YourTravelBiz.com, Inc.) that operates under an MLM business model. However, I have found no SEC or FTC (or likewise) filings or rulings substantiating the claim that YourTravelBiz.com, Inc. is a pyramid scheme or ponzi scheme according to law. Please post a link to the ruling so that I can see what facts you base your opinion on.
I'm sure it's been posted before, but to remind everyone again (which is what separates YTB from all the others).
To rebuke your statement as an outright lie trying to be passed as fact, it’s easily verifiable that it’s a “LEGIT” travel agency in accordance to law. YTB Travel Network, Inc. is a full-service Travel Agency comprised of arrangements to sell airline tickets, cruise packages and other services, plus travel sales, from RTAs’ web sites which it hosts. Furthermore, they meet, conform, and hold the requirements, qualifications, and licenses required by current law.
YourTravelBiz.com, Inc. (“YTB Marketing”) conducts business through recruitment, enrollment, training, and support of its sales force (referred to as “REPs”). A Rep is a person who can sell on-line travel agencies (websites) to RTAs, most of whom work from their homes and are compensated via a multilevel marketing commission structure.
3.) YTB's Business Model is flawed. You have people at the top without any travel experience thumbing their noses at us.
There's no distinction as to which company's business model is being referred to if not both. More specifics are needed to understand what constitutes Sandy's position as to the reason for the statement. In regards to the people at the top thumbing noses, I haven't seen or heard the Founders of the company making remarks or written comments of such actions against TTAs. Please share.
4.) YTB recruits minorities and those who have fallen on hard times. They promise a "dream" of millions, yet very few make any money.
I must have missed the corporate memo urging Reps to recruit minorities and others that may be going through a down market or faced cut backs in their chosen profession.
The promise by a company combined with someone's dream to achieve a monetary goal whether it's millions, thousands, or hundreds as an incentive and reward for performance toward achievement of corporate objectives and goals is nothing new whether it's an MLM company or Fortune 1000. Within practically every industry, there are countless corporations that do the same with their directors and sales force. Incentives and bonuses are relative to most all corporations as a reward to someone who chooses to perform. In all performance-based incentive compensation plans, some choose to participate and some choose not to. What instills motivation and drive for one, may not for another.
5.) RTA's are not trained to service their customers nor do they want to. You sell websites not travel.
Again...please understand business structure before making such a comment. When one understands how the company is structured, that will clear up and prevent stupid statements.
RTAs DO NOT sell websites. REPs DO NOT sell Travel. It’s two separate business entities who's earnings are all combined and reported under the parent company, YTB International, Inc. (YTBLA).
Additionally, RTAs do not have to service customers in relation to the way TTAs have to. YTB Travel Network does that for RTAs and handles travel processing, document distribution and travel commission payments,including tracking transactions for each RTA website.
However, RTAs that choose to service customers outside of, or in conjunction with, their self-service website are schooled through travel training courses. This training is accomplished through a combination of hands-on certification seminars and events, e-training modules and company conference calls.
This is no different than most business models. For example, I'm a Sr. Network Engineer with a major cell phone company. Sales Reps are not required to service a client...that’s my job. All they do is sell, sell, sell by way of convincing prospects to merely try our products/services and compare them when making a purchase decision. If they don’t sell, they’re not compensated. I, on the other hand as an employee, come into the picture after the sale and make sure the client's services are delivered satisfactorily. The Sales Rep may take training offered by our Engineer Services division to better understand the product/service if they so choose; but are not required.
6.) RTA's deflect criticism of the company. Come on NO company is perfect yet you all defend YTB to the nth degree. You all are wearing blinders where YTB is concerned.
I agree with your perception that no company is perfect. I also agree that many TTAs defend the traditional model the same way in that they claim it’s not a dying breed and are wearing blinders as not to see how it has suffered a major loss in market share. That’s not to say you don’t have your place, because you most certainly do. It’s just not the mainstream any longer.
7.) There are dozens and dozens of host agencies out there that will take you IF you truly want to sell and learn the travel business. Problem is you don't. You don't want to learn you want to keep selling websites.
Again, trying to convolute the facts. Let me state one more time. Reps sell websites, RTAs sell travel. So, yes; there are Reps that don't want to own a website to sell travel, earn commissions from travel, nor learn the details about how travel. They’re job is to sell agencies in order to help grow YTBI’s market share of travel sold.
Then, there are RTAs (Travel Agency owners) who don't want to sell agencies…they just want to sell travel and earn travel commissions through their agency website and not participate in the MLM option side of YTBI.
So for those who truly want to sell travel as an RTA…yes, they can choose among dozens of host agencies some of which they can get their website for free. Why all the worry about others who may choose to do things differently by opting to go with YTB Travel Network as opposed to what you chose? In relation, not everyone likes Coca-Cola.
8.) You are annoying and embarrassing at trade shows etc. The majority do not conduct themselves with ANY professionalism at all.
Merely hearsay and opinion that’s different than my opinion. The same is said for TTAs in regards to conducting themselves with professionalism, morals, and obeying the law. I think we all agree that every profession has them...the travel industry is not exempt. Attending the Travel Trade trade show in Ft. Lauderdale last fall, my experience was quite different than your view. Talking with many TTAs and vendors, we are accepted. There are some that don't like it (as no company is perfect), but again...the same is true about TTAs and the transition the industry is going through. There are travelers that see TTAs as scam artists, charge unnecessary fees, or don't like, or have a need, to use them.
If you think YTB is a 'full service travel agency' then you don't know what one of those is.
ReplyDeleteWill The Anti-MLM Zealots Lose All Their Marbles?
ReplyDeleteGood question. Of course one must understand how such a medifor applies to the anti-zealot MLM movement. What do “marbles” symbolize, and what does it mean when the “zealot” (henceforward refer to as, “the subject”) begins to “lose their marbles”? Let us begin our discussion.
Studies have shown that humans are most happy when their lives are in balance with their external environments. They, being…
Financial and Career
Social and Cultural
Spiritual and Ethical
Family and Home
Mental and Educational
Physical and Health
(Aka “The Wheel of Life”)
Imagine, if you will, each item above represented by 6 distinct marbles that remain in one continuous orbit of the cosmos mind of our subject. All marbles move harmoniously in perfect orbit, never coming into contact with each other. But how and when does our subject being to lose a marble? And, more importantly, what is the result of losing all of one’s marbles?
When our subject begins to obsess, over a particular thought for lengthy period of time, a uniquely different marble beings to appear in the cosmos mind. We will call it the “MLM Obsession Marble”. This marble is uniquely different. How so? This marble inharmoniously beings its orbit in an unpredictable, unstable manner. The movement and path becomes a danger to the other six. If left in its unstable path, it is bound to strike one of the other six and..BANG!..haphazzardly colliding with one of the stable marbles affecting, perhaps, the subject’s “Physical and Health” deflecting it right out of the cosmic mind. Symptoms may include nausea, vomiting, insomnia, and depression. The MLM marble begins to accelerate faster and faster as it wobbles in its orbit yet again striking another of the 5 that are left. BANG!..the process repeats itself.
As one can see, left untreated, the subject eventually is at risk for losing all his marbles at an alarming rate. When this occurs, the only remaining marble will be the “MLM Obsession Marble”. Our subject now is in critical need of urgent professional help. If not treated, the cosmic mind will no longer support the gravity required to keep this last remaining marble in orbit. Once this occurs, it is too late. This marble flies uncontrollably out of orbit. Sadly, our subject has now lost all his marbles.
OleScorekeeper
Karla's on to something. I don't think anyone knows what a "full-service travel agency" is. Has this been defined in regards to set standards by the governing body that oversees the Travel Industry? Oh wait...there isn't one. So all agency owners are free to make up their own definition as they see fit without recourse. What the heck...let's all be "Full-Service Travel Agencies"! We already call ourselves "Travel Agents" and YTB calls themselves "Referring Travel Agents" without any governing industry standards to control the terms (unlike CPA, Doctor, Engineer, etc.).
ReplyDeleteMargie-YTB is NOT a full service travel agency. Nice try though. As to your other comments please explain to me why RCCL, Celebrity, Perillo Tours and APlus Vacations dropped YTB.Explain to me why ASTA won't have anything to do with YTB. Explain to my why 3,000 plus travel agents signed a petition against YTB.
ReplyDeleteAs to the suppliers being all lovey dovey and cozy with you at trade shows. PLEASE! I have been at trade shows and most of them really don't like you BUT because the CEO's of such suppliers will take business from anyone they have to play nicey nice with you. Behind your back is another story.
And, as your professionalism that is another joke. Did you not get the memo on wearing your lime green t-shirt and recruiting at trade shows. In case you missed the memo let me give you the lowdown. YTB embarrassed itself at trade shows by doing this. I have personally been on FAMS with YTB and only about .5 percent are there to learn. The rest think it's a vacation! And, act like idiots stampeding to the shrimp and anything free.
In short Margie STFU. Because we are going to keep telling everyone about YTB and your lack of industry knowledge and all the rest of the crap you do. Get over it. You chose to work with YTB and you chose to recruit a down line. You are just ticked it may hurt your recruiting.
Now, be gone before I drop a house on you Margie or throw a bucket of water on you so you melt....
Margie-Love to hear your explanation about IATAN dropping you also. Do tell honey.
ReplyDeleteAs to YTB's professionalism, love the STFU comment above. ROTFL!
Let me repeat myself Margie. YTB is not a full service agency just like Expedia is not. While Expedia has FAR more service than YTB they do not handle things like visa applications, stand alone transfers, evacuation assistance, bereavement fares, pets, special meals, hands on exchanges, destination recommendations, refunds for schedule changes and many other services that a website cannot do. And how about just talking it all out....my last conversation with a YTB website was pretty one sided.
ReplyDeleteHow about this senario....You booked on YTB, You are changing planes in Atlanta and DL's system goes down. There are 600 people in line with customer service ahead of you...You can:
ReplyDelete1. wait in line and all the seats will be taken by the time you get there.
2. try and call Delta to rebook, but you don't know their phone number.
3. Call your YTB RTA to rebook, but wheres that number?
4. Rent a car and drive 800 miles home.
If this poor schmuck had booked with me, he'd call the 800 number and I would have him protected on another carrier in 5 minutes.
Actually, this is a true story and the poor schmuck wasn't a poor schmuck because he did book with me...but all the folks around him didn't. For all I know they are still in Atlanta.
That's called 'full service'.
Good job, Margie -
ReplyDeleteWelcome to the world of the happy, happy TTAs.
Some of the most "glass half-empty" people I have come across.
Lots of unhappiness out there for them to be so concerned with our little company.
Even ole travellisa has resorted to sounding like the rank Martha on this blog . . . real impressed with the profanity from the TTA and Mother.
In the eyes of the TTAs, there is nothing good about YTB.
Nothing.
It's like explaining the good that we are doing in Iraq to a liberal democrat.
They don't get it and never will.
Set in their ways.
Great job with your answers, Margie.
Glad you are part of YTB.
You are now officially part of the dark side to our wonderful TTA friends.
YTB and TRAVEL: A Great Mix!
"It's like explaining the good that we are doing in Iraq to a liberal democrat."
ReplyDeleteWell, now I know you are an idiot because there isn't any good in Iraq or YTB for that matter. How many Iraqis are getting killed including children?
Mix
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, it was one of your brethern who told someone on here to STFU. If you need that spelled out, let me know. Thats ok though. And even old Doug has used that word..shame on me for saying such naughty word. You mistake me for one of those prim and proper Christian do whatever my man says kinda girl. If my saying jack shit offends people,you need to build a bridge and get over it. You do not know anything about me, what I do, how I do it, and as a mother do not even assume you know anything. My 7 year old child knows more about travel then majority of the RTA's employed by YTB. Glass half full, nope. Always the optimist. I'm quite optomistic that YTB will crash and burn. Yes we are set in our ways...we are set to give our clients the best possible service, something YTB will never be able to do so long as you tell your clients to point and click. When the day comes, and your client is miffed (there ya happy I didnt swear) because the hotel your site put them in is under construction, you let me know how that conversation goes.
Have a nice evening!
To answer your questions...
ReplyDelete"As to your other comments please explain to me why RCCL, Celebrity, Perillo Tours and APlus Vacations dropped YTB."
This question has already been posed directly to those organizations and answered by them. I'm sure you read the same announcements as I (or comments by others who claim they have an inside source). Whether you accept their explanation or not, there's nothing more that I know of that could help explain it; nor do I have any inside supporting documentation that proves otherwise.
"As to the suppliers being all lovey dovey and cozy with you at trade shows. PLEASE! I have been at trade shows and most of them really don't like you BUT because the CEO's of such suppliers will take business from anyone they have to play nicey nice with you. Behind your back is another story. "
We all know this goes both ways. At various travel related events, trade shows, and functions, I've heard several TTAs not only bash and complain about vendors (event directly at them at their booth) like they were owed something for one reason or another, but even bash other TTAs nonetheless; which says a lot about their professionalism. So, you're not special and exempt (nor am I) from such criticism. We're all human but some are just more mature and respectful to others.
And, as your professionalism that is another joke.
I think I covered that pretty well in my comment above.
Did you not get the memo on wearing your lime green t-shirt and recruiting at trade shows. In case you missed the memo let me give you the lowdown. YTB embarrassed itself at trade shows by doing this.
Yes, I received the memo encouraging RTAs to be professional at all travel related events. Personally, I either wear my agency embroidered shirt representing my own Travel Agency business; or that of my host "YTB Travel Network".
I have personally been on FAMS with YTB and only about .5 percent are there to learn. The rest think it's a vacation! And, act like idiots stampeding to the shrimp and anything free.
Fuzzy math but interesting story though. I was told a similar one by a Princess rep during registration for a Seminar at Sea. Using almost your words verbatim, she expressed how important it was to attend the classes while at sea as there had been issues in the past with agents (Cruise Planners in particular) just thinking it was a vacation and skipping.
"In short Margie STFU. Because we are going to keep telling everyone about YTB and your lack of industry knowledge and all the rest of the crap you do. Get over it."
Just another example of that exemplary professionalism as commented above wouldn’t you all agree?
You chose to work with YTB and you chose to recruit a down line. You are just ticked it may hurt your recruiting.
No...not ticked....very content actually regardless of how you may feel. Point being, to express your comments intelligently, you must make a distinction of what company you're talking about. Because, again...RTAs do not recruit...they sell travel via their online Travel Agency website.
Now, be gone before I drop a house on you Margie or throw a bucket of water on you so you melt....
Hmmm….I think you may be the one that’s ticked. Or, is that just yet another example of that professionalism you speak of?
Margie, Do you understand that a website is NOT a full service agency? Like Cruise Planners is not a full service agency?
ReplyDeleteYou are an untrained RTA who makes $$ selling websites.
How come 80% of RTA's fail? How come 80% are losing money?
Margie, I ask every vendor that comes into my office their opinion of YTB. There has not been ONE positive comment to me by any cruise line or tour op.
ReplyDeleteYou are well known in the industry for you lack of knowledge and 'me first' attitude. One vendor rep told me that YTB expected him to put together the itins for a group of 50. They wanted to do a tour of Italy and Isreal for one week in August. Yep, 7 days including flying time. Reminder - it's not the vendors job to do all the work and then pay you a commission. Vendors are not RTA's.
Karla said "...they do not handle things like visa applications, stand alone transfers, evacuation assistance, bereavement fares, pets, special meals, hands on exchanges, destination recommendations, refunds for schedule changes and many other services..."
ReplyDeleteThose are great examples of items and services to define your interpretation of a "full-service travel agency". Please share your website address so we all can see how that functionality works. What? You can't because each of those aren't fully enabled "web-based applications" thereby representative of true self-service transactions? Oh, o.k. Well, good examples nonetheless. Anyone else care to share their interpretation?
We do not service our clients on websites. There lies the difference. We actually speak to clients on the phones, via email, and use GDS's and our own knowledge.
ReplyDeleteYou want a full service agency website..go to #2 worldwide..Carlson Wagonlit Travel. Google it..then compare apples to apples. Not gonna happen in this lifetime.
Margie-Come on I have been at trade shows for 15 years and not once have I heard TTA's talk bad about suppliers. Give it up. You are a lying. And, every rep I talked to said the same thing---they tolerate YTB. Reps, RTA's who cares. You people taint the industry and have no travel knowledge. Those training courses you take are a joke. Proof, which countries require a VISA to visit? Basic elementary TA stuff and I bet you don't know the answer. The only thing you know is how to recruit, how to deflect an argument and that's it.
ReplyDeleteI am waiting for your explanation as to why RCCL, Perillo, APLUS Vacations and a host of others won't do business with you.
AND, I am still waiting to hear your explanation, not deflection as to IATAN revoking YTB's credentials.
You can't explain it because you bought into the "dream" and drank the Kook Aid. You are brain washed.
BTW-How much did you earn last year? LOL! Keep drinking the Kook Aid and believe surely you will increase your income. NOT!
As to the hosue dropping on you comment you deserved that one with your stupid comments.
I don't offer those services via a web site. I do it face to face, via an email request or over the phone. That's full service. I've even been known to deliver paper tickets to the clients door. No extra charge...YTB charges for paper tickets even tho there is no charge from the airline...YTB said I had to have a paper ticket on a QAntas flight - LAX -SYD - LAX and was happy to tell me about the 70.00 charge. In real life it costs ZERO.
ReplyDeleteIt's difficult to fulfill a visa request via a website. How will the website get the pax's passport to the visa service?
So what's your unique and individual website look like Marge?
Marge website looks like all the other YTB websites. Nothing special. What did you expect? She is a phony, a liar and a psychopath.
ReplyDeleteHey I just had a great idea for Coach's next big thing YTB psycho analysts. Pay $499 upfront and $50 per month and you to can be a psychoanalyst and solve all your friends, families and loved ones problems. Have a happy YTB mental problem free day.
You people taint the industry
ReplyDeleteA Taint---isn't that the spot on a man that is between his boys and his ass?
I think it is...works for me!
Marge-Psychopath
ReplyDeleteOle-Psychopath
" Because, again...RTAs do not recruit...they sell travel via their online Travel Agency website."
ReplyDeleteMargie, don't be disengenuous. How many RTAs are not also REPs? In order to get your website for free, you have to recruit 6 and how many times has someone been on here saying they don't pay anything for their website? To be a REP is FREE. What fool wouldn't sign up for both when one is FREE. So saying RTAs don't recruit is like saying dogs don't bark - some may not, but the majority?
Ok... my walk on the beach is complete. What a beautiful sunset today! So, now...let's get those TTAs shouting and screaming some more about how they hate Travel Agencies who market via MLM.
ReplyDeleteHere we go...
Wow...15 years huh? I've only been an online travel agency owner for a little over 2 years. Like you I'm sure, I love it!
Anyhow, about the TTA raising his voice to the point of causing a scene at the trade show...yes it did happen, I saw and overheard it. Granted...I don't recall it verbatim, but in essense...passing by the booth, an agent made an uncandid remark about RCCL's disregard for quality food prep. When the booth rep attempted to acknowledge and confirm his comment, the agent made a b-line to the table confronting the rep about how he will never recommend them again. Apparently, he had a group (size unknown) that he booked where they became ill with food poisoning and how it hurt his referral business (eventhough it wasn't his fault). He continued to rant for at least 2 minutes on how RCCL wouldn't assist with their medical bills and how he had been named in the complaint. Point being, it did happen.
"You people taint the industry and have no travel knowledge."
That makes as much sense as someone saying that TTAs taint the industry thinking their better than those just getting into the industry who don't have as much experience.
"Those training courses you take are a joke."
Oh, you've taken them? I think your just speaking out of ignorance and it's really only your opinion based on your biased position on YTB Travel Network? Thought so.
"Proof, which countries require a VISA to visit? Basic elementary TA stuff and I bet you don't know the answer."
Ah...the "test". I was wondering when this would occur. But come on...you got to be kidding? Try something harder than that. I'm not going to even waste your time.
"The only thing you know is how to recruit, how to deflect an argument and that's it"
Deflect argument? Countering your lying opinions with facts is not deflection. You (and this blog) have yet to state any verifiable and substantiated facts as to YTB Travel Network operating illegally or why it's not a valid travel agency. Why? Because you can't. Your actions are no different than all the other corporate haters of the world not matter the company...Microsoft, Wal-Mart, Home-Depot, Levis, Mary Kay, etc. All that's being attempted is to confuse the readers by calling YTB's Travel Agency an MLM when it's not. No matter how hard you try and twist it, all you do is continue to make ignorant comments. Again, YourTravelBiz.com is the MLM that consists of Reps who sell travel agencies. RTAs sell travel through their online travel agency website.
Furthermore, you know what exactly? How to call those who oppose your opinion names in a vain attempt to make yourself feel better in regards to your self image? That's the "professional" image of the TTA everyone is coming to know quite often.
I am waiting for your explanation as to why RCCL, Perillo, APLUS Vacations and a host of others won't do business with you.
That's already been posted. In summary, my explanation is exactly what was reported by those agencies. Even though YTBI might not agree with their actions, it makes no difference for anyone to speculate or read into it with opinion on what those agencies didn't report? That's about as useful and your anus. Everyone has one and it's full of crap.
AND, I am still waiting to hear your explanation, not deflection as to IATAN revoking YTB's credentials. You can't explain it because you bought into the "dream" and drank the Kook Aid. You are brain washed.
No explanation here. My explanation is the same as theirs verbatim regardless if I agree or not.
BTW-How much did you earn last year? LOL! Keep drinking the Kook Aid and believe surely you will increase your income. NOT!
Please clarify...RTA commissions or Rep commissions? Curiously, why such interest...so you can comment how you don't believe it and bring embarrassment upon yourself by ranting, raving, and calling names?
As to the hosue dropping on you comment you deserved that one with your stupid comments.
I believe it's undeniable who makes the stupid comments.
ann, ctc said…
ReplyDeleteHow many RTAs are not also REPs?.
Company wide...I do not know. Personally, I'm aware of at least 15 that are Travel Agency owners only. Most are comprised of corporations who now book their own travel as opposed to using other online sites; while others are former brick & mortar agents and agency owners.
"In order to get your website for free, you have to recruit 6"
Correct. Following your scenario where one is already an agency owner (RTA), if the RTA is interested in helping YTBI establish and grow it's base of travel agency stores, there is an incentive reward of having their website fees reimbursed each month. The RTA signs an optional IMR (Independent Marketing Representative) agreement with YourTravelBiz.com, Inc. thereby making them a part of the sales force as a REP and eligible to market and recruit other RTAs who also want to own their own online travel agency store.
As long as the agency owner maintains six (6) personally sponsored RTAs their monthly website fees will be reimbursed.
A YourTravelBiz.com Rep is similar to that of any corporate Franchise Sales Rep who earns commission selling the establishment to prospective business owners, not the product or services the establishment markets once opened for business.
"...and how many times has someone been on here saying they don't pay anything for their website?"
Not sure. But that's not exactly correct if that is what is being stated. In actuality, they do pay. There's an expense which is then reimbursed. Which is what they're probably trying to imply (but it's not free...at least not as far as the IRS is concerned).
"To be a REP is FREE.
Correct. One may choose to join YourTravelBiz.com at no cost to market and sell travel agencies thereby earning the due commission for sales as outlined in the compensation plan.
What fool wouldn't sign up for both when one is FREE.
It happens...however, I wouldn't go as far as calling them fools.
So saying RTAs don't recruit is like saying dogs don't bark - some may not, but the majority?
Granted I do follow the logic you're attempting to convey, but it's incorrect because of the terminology used. Reps recruit and make up the majority...not RTAs. So, to answer it the way you wrote it..."no". RTAs don't recruit. They own an online travel agency.
Margie, are you sure your name isn't really Doug? I think it is.
ReplyDeleteMargie-You are NOT an online travel agency. You sell websites. You recruit a down line that makes you an MLM.
ReplyDeleteMargie said, "All that's being attempted is to confuse the readers by calling YTB's Travel Agency an MLM when it's not."
ReplyDeleteHere you go Margie:
http://www.pyramidschemealert.org/PSAMain/home.html
http://www.pinktruth.com/
You recruit and you get money for that recruiting that makes you an MLM. Only the people at the top make money the majority at the bottom do not. That makes YTB an MLM. As to the legality of MLM's they have been allowed to skirt the law. But, consumer attitudes are changing.
You don't give a damn at all about the travel industry all you care about is recruiting and making money off of your down line. If you were serious about selling travel then you would either join a legit host instead of the pariah YTB is.
Still waiting for an explanation about IATAN and RCCL. You can't give one because you don't have one.
And, why did 3,000 travel agents sign a petition against YTB and MLM's. Peter Stilpen is he wrong too? Peter Greenburg had an anti-MLM piece. Is he wrong too. The only reason why you are defending YTB to the death is because you are afraid we will screw up your down line and hurt your recruiting. You don't care about the truth. You ignore what EVERYONE says about YTB. You keep defending a hated company. To what end? Says a lot about you and your motives. Greed! That's what it's all about for you.
ASTA's position on card mills.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.travelsense.org/pdf/cardmills.pdf
2 points. First MArgie's point aobut YTB TRAVEL not being an MLM...it is true, the travel side simply sells travel, the marketing side is the MLM, pciky point.
ReplyDeletesecond, ASTA doesn't like card mills....but the dispute is not that, but the opinion of whether or not YTB is one.
YTB is a card mill. Read ASTA's definition. As to YTB being an MLM yes it is. Read pyramid alert. No doubt about it.
ReplyDeleteMarge is full of crap.
If YTB is not a card mill, why are you not members of ASTA? Since you are the #35 agency in the US and your president is so influential---why are you not a Premium Member? Why is Kim not on the Board of ASTA. I see representation from all of the other "big boys" on there.
ReplyDeleteMaybe he is not as influential as he thinks...well at least IATAN did not feel so.
RTAs are non MLM. The REPS are MLM.
ReplyDeleteBut YTBs majority income comes from the REPs. It's considered a pyramid scheme when the majority of income comes from the members, not product sales. All YTB needs to do is drop the REP side and voila...legit!
"So saying RTAs don't recruit is like saying dogs don't bark - some may not, but the majority?
ReplyDeleteGranted I do follow the logic you're attempting to convey, but it's incorrect because of the terminology used. Reps recruit and make up the majority...not RTAs. So, to answer it the way you wrote it..."no". RTAs don't recruit. They own an online travel agency."
You're splitting hairs Margie. Yes, there may be 2 separate businesses, but one cannot exist without the other. The REP position is pure pyramid. Take away the RTA position from the REPs and YTB is toast. On the other hand, take away the REP position from the RTAs and the lure of residuals, Power Team bonuses, FAM trips etc makes YTB a joke as a travel company. Noone would sign up. So to say that YTB is 2 separate businesses may be technically correct, but they are inextricably tied together. Since most of the meetings to get people to sign up are run by REPs, do you really think that they don't push signing up for both?