NOTE: PLEASE SEE CORRECTION BELOWFor the past year or so, the buzz about MLM has been that the business (whatever that may be) is not about going out and getting business by advertising or by using search engine optimization. The concept is all about asking your friends, relatives, and acquaintances to visit your website and if the price is comparable to make the purchase. The claim is that it is all about the relationship.
The concept sounds simple enough; but, do these MLMs practice what they preach (pun fully intended)?
Now, I for one have a policy against soliciting business from friends and family. If they seek me out, great, if not, even better. I know an agency owner whose business plan was to solicit the wealthy friends of his parents. Well that did not work out so well.
But are the MLMs really working on any relationships in any of their business dealings? I have heard from RTAs that have quit because of the lack of support. YTB was all about relationships with Shanghai Springs and that went by the wayside. The 2 Fly Free program has now left the clients to fend for themselves if they want to use the program. The "Help" page has been further reduced with less options to contact anyone for help.
So where exactly is the relationship building? It is not with the clients. It is not with the recruits. It seems from a prior post, that YTB is inclined to utilize strangers and advertise on free classified boards like Craigslist.
If YTB was truly interested in selling travel and becoming the biggest online agency in thew world...wouldn't it make sense to...oh I don't know, direct people to your website? Why is there not an RTA locator on the main site? Do you know if you search "travel" on google, that YTB does not even show up once int he first 100 results? Seems like the largest online travel agency is falling short. Orbitz, Travelocity, and Expedia are all in there multiple times.
As an aside to the travel search, if you google "travel scam" YTB shows up in 43 out of the first 100 results. Orbitz did not show up at all. Expedia showed up once, and Travelocity also had no showing in the travel scam search.
Why is that?
Correction: It appears that a poor choice of words on my part in the last paragraph has many people confused. YTB did NOT show up in 43 OF the first hundred results. YTB showed up 43 times IN the first hundred results.
Well, I will address part of your post a bit later this morning, but the RTA locator thing stood out.
ReplyDeleteHere is the problem with doing that. Let's say you live in my zip code and you enter it in....Well on my street alone 7 of us will come up. Who do you use?
John,
ReplyDeleteyou are correct that MLM is about relationship marketing at the individual level. If I utilize a search engine, like you mentioned my RTA site might come up by entering in travel along with a BILLION other sites. Why would someone buy from me if they don't know me? Certain types of marketing are not cost effective in certain types of businesses.
It's that simple.
Oh, and the reason travel scam yields YTB is because you have about 43 sites yourself where you make that happen.
I entered in Travel scam on google to see for myself...
ReplyDeleteThis one was number 4
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/ct_travel_scam.html
And in that article was a piece of advise that stood out to me....It said...
Don't pay a travel agent with cash or a check. If possible use a credit card, since you can dispute the charges within 60 days if problems occur.
WHY NOT??????? Since all of you TTAs are so reputible, why should this be an issue?
Then it said this...
Do shop carefully for a travel agent or tour operator. You should seek referrals from friends who have successfully booked trips with a travel professional. You might also want to search on TravelSense (www.travelsense.org) a consumer website developed by the American Society of Travel Agents.
Again same thing.....why is this even necessary if TTAs are up and up?
Then the 7th one....NO YTB YET was this....
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Moms/story?id=1786711&page=1
Here was the opening paragraph...
Spring break is winding down and summer vacations are right around the corner, so as you're starting to make those summer travel plans, you should know tricky travel offers are consistently among the top five consumer complaints. Americans lose $12 billion every year to travel fraud.
WOW 12 billion to travel fraud?????
Now, based on sales that you TTAs say YTB doesn't have, I would have to say that an overwhelmingly high percentage of that 12 BILLION with a B is from TTAs.
The first 2 YTB mentions were YOUTUBE videos at number 13 and 14
Then number 25 was next and it was an AOL video, the same one as number 13 YOU TUBE VIDEO
Number 28 was about EXPEDIA but was one person's account of buying tickets.
Then there was this one...
http://www.jstandard.com/articles/2259/1/No-relief-in-travel-scam
Another TTA ripoff artist
Finally an article about YTB at number 54..
http://www.merchantcircle.com/blogs/YTB.Travel.Network.901-299-1220/2008/5/YTB-Travel-Agency-Scam-or-Legitimate-Business-/83955
Guess what JOhn it is a PRO yTB article written by Regina Osei!!!
Then there was this article....
http://news.aol.com/story/_a/man-sentenced-to-nevada-prison-in-pro/n20080508115909990011
Another travel rip off artist NOT YTB, NOT MLM
Then from ripoffreport...
http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/155/RipOff0155200.htm
Under the classification of TRAVEL AGENCIES...
another ripoff.
Number 65...another online video at MYSPACE.com, i can't view myspace at work so I can't comment.
Number 71, another video YTB
Then there was one, number 74 where a guy was complaining about onlytahiti keeping his money.
I know that company and it is reputible, so people can put anything on the internet and have it show up in a search...
Number 89, another video with YTB in the title but the guy doesn't even talk about YTB, in fact he is trying to market some lead business, and probably is using the YTB in the search to get people to his video.
http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/stories/wcnc-051408-mw-travelscam.fe8779a7.html
Another TTA scamming people at search number 91
Well, I just went through the first 100, and in this comment I documented all of the YTB mentions and there were 4, not 43!!!
Of the 4, 2 were the same video and I didn't even mention YTB.
Thanks for another piece of BS, JF
I forgot to mention that link #13 was also a guy selling leads and trying to capitalize by using YTB scam in the title.
ReplyDelete#14 is some guy from COlorado.. who's same video shows up on page 14 twice in a row. That page 14 by the way was the next mention of YTB (143-144)
So, up to 144 links on google "travel scam" and only 5 mention YTB, 2 are lead sellers and 3 are the same guy's video and he really doesn't say YTB is a scam he is just trying to get you to join his HOST agency. Again trying to capitalize on putting YTBSCAM in his title.
ON page 17 (link #170) is a single post from a guy in YTB who likes YTB but was scammed by someone in YTB not even about YTB.
Page 18...starting to see some PRO-YTB links showing up dispelling scam opinions.
Page 19...same thing.. PRO-YTB blogs about how it isn't a scam.
OK i just got through the 20th page (200) threads and documented them all. See for yourself how John LIED again!!!!
Go and Google "travel scam" like he said, and click on each link.
You won't find 43 in the first 100, you will find 6 in the first 200, and i tol dyou what they were.
Whatever shred of credibility JOhn had is now gone in my mind.
Ole, once again you have no proof what so ever that any of the fraud committed was committed by a TTA. This is nothing more than wishful thinking on your part. When the news of the RTA who robbed 70 high school seniors of their class trip, the news reported it was done by a travel agent.
ReplyDeleteNow I believe the topic of the day was not " how many false claims can Ole make today?" but rather about the advertising methods used by your lovely mlm.
If YTB is so great, then why don't you ever see any TV ads or magazine ads? Why is the only advertising you ever see free advertising?
"This one was number 4
ReplyDeletehttp://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/ct_travel_scam.html
And in that article was a piece of advise that stood out to me....It said...
Don't pay a travel agent with cash or a check. If possible use a credit card, since you can dispute the charges within 60 days if problems occur.
WHY NOT??????? Since all of you TTAs are so reputible, why should this be an issue?
Then it said this...
Do shop carefully for a travel agent or tour operator. You should seek referrals from friends who have successfully booked trips with a travel professional. You might also want to search on TravelSense (www.travelsense.org) a consumer website developed by the American Society of Travel Agents.
Again same thing.....why is this even necessary if TTAs are up and up?"
I'll respond to this. Obviously you do not understand how the industry works. Most TTAs will recommend that a traveler use a credit card for purchases and NOT pay by check or cash. I do. Why? Because if you use a credit card, in the vast majority of cases, it is the supplier who will be charging the card. If the supplier is charging the card and does not provide the service, the consumer can dispute the charges. Paying by cash or check, the consumer simply becomes one more unsecured creditor (last on the repayment food chain). And believe me, I don't want to become one more link in the chain between the supplier and consumer. That's a no win situation. It has absolutely nothing to do with whether I'm going to take the money and run.
So if you book travel with a TTA, B&M or homebased, if the agent insists that you pay by cash or check, they had better have a damn good reason and one that you can verify (like the supplier does not accept credit cards). The check should be made out to the business, not to the agent personally, and the agent should be able to provide you with reservation numbers or a confirmation from the supplier that they have received payment.
As for shopping for a professional? Yes, just like you would a Dr, lawyer, CPA, vet...
Kate,
ReplyDeleteThat wasn't OLE that posted those. That was me. Granted I am another ANON poster but I can assure you that I am not OLE.
With that said, the last sentence of your comment is silly. IF YTB is so great why don't you see any TV ads, etc????
That is the whole premise of the business model. YTB can afford to PAY THE REPS because it doesn't pay 100s of millions in advertising. The marketing.advertising is done by each individual RTA. Hello????DUH????? You know Kate, I used to think you might have been smart.
I went tot travelsense.org and did not see YTB...why is that?
ReplyDeleteWhy do people capitalize on some other business by using YTB and SCAM in the headlines? Seems like a dumb marketing move to me.
Credit Cards--absolutely. I don't pay the merchant fee, the consumer is protected and I go one step further and tell them credit not debit offers more protection.
Another flaw...comments lead me to believe that you sell travel from word of mouth and don't need the stupid sold internet to market your site. Presumably, you would be word of mouth marketing to your neighbors, family and friends. Correct? Well if you DID have a RTA search and I did search and found all 7 of your neighbors signed up, they are not buying travel from you--are they? So, ultimately who are you selling to? Yourself!
While the argument has been made that YTB will not run out of suckers to sign up because the world is so big, I bet the critical issue is that the Reps will run out of friends. I don;t know what the percentage is, but there are only three results a YTB rep can achieve--they sign up and you lose their travel business, they don't sign up an buy their travel through you or someone else, or you alienate them and ruin the friendship because they "did not drink the kool aid". ANyone care to venture the percentages?
Now THAT would be an interesting MLM study--how many people you once considered close friends are now not so close?
"Let's say you live in my zip code and you enter it in....Well on my street alone 7 of us will come up. Who do you use?"
ReplyDeleteIts your choice, but at least the YTB site allowed you to find someone local to you that you can work with. Right now you can't even do that.
The cost to implement such a feature on the site would be extremely small and the benefits to members would be very great.
Lets talk about my 7 neighbors.
ReplyDeleteThe are all in my power team.
I get a 10% override on all travel booked through their website. So, when they talk to their friends and families that I DO NOT KNOW and they book through them, I get a piece of the comission. Major leverage. I don't have to remind ANY of them to book through me EVER.
There are 140,000 RTAs with websites and 80 Million AMERICANS use the internet exclusively to book travel, so, certainly there is room for I would say 8 Million RTAs in this country before people "run out". But by then YTB will be more international and others that were qualified to become RTAs (younger than 18) will, opening the door to more propsspects.
But, John tell me why you didn't reference your BS of 43 out of 100 on google?!?!?!?!?
Or was that "sarcasm' like yesterday?
You need to get off the 80M number. 80M use the internet to research and book. That is a lot different than booking.
ReplyDeleteAlso those 80M include the TTAs booking travel for their clients, and their clients where the TTA has put the booking engine on their intranets.
As to the 43 out of 100. What do you want me to say. Google "TRAVEL SCAM" set your results to 100. Then just on that page, in just the headlines and the excerpts, count the number of times YTB shows up. The other day it was 43. I did not look to see if it was a pro or anti result.
Why does YTB not have a problem with this? It is almost as if they are proud to be associated with a scam.
Let's take it a bit more personal, let's say that you googled "hot nasty kinky sex" and your wife, partner, daughter, or son's name came up repeatedly---would that not phase you?
They all seem to think that the 80M people using the internet for travel are only regular joes. Why? Because they have no concept of how this industry works. I use the internet EVERYDAY and book on it. Wether it be airlines sites, vendor sites, car/hotel, consolidators etc. That all accounts for travel being booked. So we are a part of that as well. The BS you were probably sold was 80M people are booking their travel on Expedia, Travolocity, etc..and yes they do get alot of business, but not all of it. Actually a majority of people are now using the travel search engines.. (Sidestep/Kayak) to tell them whos got the best deals, and unless YTB shows up on that, your SOL.
ReplyDeletejohn,
ReplyDeletei went to google and hit travel scam and itemized the results in my previous comment. It was NOWHERE CLOSE to 43
It was FOUR!!!
I just did it again....SAME THING 4 out of 100
ReplyDeleteHey guess what...the other day I googled John Frnaye and a sex offender registry came up...
You wont' see that today but I promise it happened the other day.
Oh, by the way, that was sarcasm
Obviously Google returns different results at different times. I just went to Google and type in travel scams. In the first 100 results, I found these number of mentions for these companies:
ReplyDeleteYTB - 7
GTI - 3
Expedia - 1
World Ventures - 2
Pro Travel - 6
Traverus - 3
Note, I did not look at any of the articles for positive or negative. I simply looked for company names that appeared in the title or in the brief description.
Any publicity is good publicity right?
ReplyDeleteFair enough steve....7 mentions is far less than 43. Plus I believe in my initial post i referenced the 7, 3 were the same, 2 were not even about YTB, one was on myspace that I couldn't get to and I can't recal what the other was.
ReplyDeleteI have tried it a dozen times and I have noticed, at least the top 20 don't change
Now go do it at Yahoo and YTB comes up for the first time at number 77 because someone at answers.yahoo.com asked the specific question is YTB a scam?
ReplyDeleteYou know, pointing John out to be a liar is getting boring.
Congratulations you are at 55. Maybe they ought to have a google class at YTB U. Maybe after the Kooking With Kool Aid 101 Class.
ReplyDeleteGo here:
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&q=%22Travel+Scam%22&btnG=Search
Now, if you use Firefox or IE, press the CTRL key and hold it down and then press the F key. In Firefox a little window at the bottom will display. In IE a window will pop up. Where it looks for a search term type in these three letters YTB
Then click the button that says NEXT.
Here is where it gets complicated because you likely will run out of fingers, but each time you click NEXT, count one. Next 1, next 2, next 3, next 4, etc all the way to the bottom of the page and you will see that there are 55 mentions of YTB.
Not stories, not links, but mentions
Don't call someone a liar or Doug may blog about it and Regina may become upset.
ReplyDeleteBut thats right when YTB does it it is okie dokie!
Typical JF stuff -
ReplyDeletePut out a big headline.
When it is refuted, leave it up.
Enough people will believe his propaganda.
7 out of 100 versus 43 out of 100?
A credible journalist would take the post down.
But not JF.
43 out of 100 fits his template.
The crack reporter is really digging deep.
And the BS is flowing.
YTB and TRAVEL: A Great Mix!
John,
ReplyDeleteAre you really that pathetic????
WHen you see YTB in a link and the "phrase" YTB is counted within the link that doesn't count as a separate mention. COme on now.
For example this ONE link on google with your silly search parameter yielded 8 "mentions"
Consumer Alert: Is YTB a scam? Your Travel Biz - AOL Videoytb travel scam-Is ytb a scam. 01:11. When Will I Start Making Money With (YTB TRAVEL) 14 days? 01:49. The BEST Scam Out Today! (YTB Travel) See Why Others ...
video.aol.com/video-detail/consumer-alert-is-ytb-a-scam-your-travel-biz/2548603804 - 88k -
Because it says YTB several times in the link. That is truly pathetic dude.
So, the math adds up as YTB as a phrase is in each of those SEVEN links about 8 times, so there is your 55.
ReplyDeleteYou are a major TOOL.
ZERO CREDIBILITY.
I must say a few weeks ago when I ran into your blog, even though I disagreed with you on alot of stuff, you had some credibility, but you have gone way off the deep end.
Headline Major Contradiction. Says nothign about the google results.
ReplyDeleteThe google results were an afterthought. As an aside....
And where did I ever say that 43 results or 43 links? I did not. I said YTB SHOWS UP 43 times. SO yes if the first thread said nothing but YTB YTBYTBYTB it woudl show up a lot.
Learn to read.
To the new reader that is now disappointed---sorry to see you leave! Too bad you are anonymous because we will never know now will we?
Actually JOHN you should read your own blog you said it showed up not 43 times or mentions but "in 43 of the first 100 results" The key being IN..,.. So you need to learn to read and/or write.
ReplyDeletewho cares if it was in the title. Yesterday I brought up the title and you claimed sarcasm. Today, I mention something inaccurate in your blog post and you say, well it wasn't in the title.
Wow, pathetic dude
My time on this blog gets shorter and shorter each day. Why, because it's the same crap day in and day out. John throws s**t out to everyone, RTA's feed the TTA's with some errant comments, TTA's (supposedly)claim how professional they are and come across as totally unprofessional. It's a loser site - (but a barrel of laughs).
ReplyDeleteThen why not just leave--no sense hanging around with a bunch of loosers. Isn't there a Red Carpet Day soon? That way you can hang out with the Phd's and the Award Winning Travel Agents and the Scammers and the Crooks and the Gambling kingpins and ministers and the coachs
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said, "Americans lose $12 billion every year to travel fraud.
ReplyDeleteWOW, 12 billion to travel fraud?????
Now, based on sales that you TTAs say YTB doesn't have, I would have to say that an overwhelmingly high percentage of that 12 BILLION with a B is from TTAs."
And the typical panties in a twist response from the TTA's on this blog is,..."you don't know if those agents held IATA or ARC numbers"...or, how about this oldie moldy,..."Anyone can set up a store front and call themselves a travel agent."
Hey people, we are talking $12 billion in fraud by TTA's. And you guys would have us believe none of them had a IATAN relationship?
And then again we have the infamous Kate Holmes, aka as TravelTemptress, repeating the same old drivel..."Ole, once again you have no proof what so ever that any of the fraud committed was committed by a TTA."
$12 Billions dollars Kate, $12 billion with a capitol "B"! Get real girl! Like I've said...
YTB - 2 or 3 crooks the last 8 years.
TTA's - Too many crooks to count the last 8 years.
And, that's a fact.
OleScorekeeper
I missed the part that it was attributed to TTAs. It certainly is not attributed to MLMs either but travel is a big topic---time shares..car rentals, hotels, vacation programs, 2 fly frees, condo stays anywhere in the world, etc.
ReplyDeleteOle, you can say it but you can't prove that the 12 B fraud was all in the laps of TTA's. As john pointed out time shares are a very popular method of committing fraud.
ReplyDeleteThere was an 'agency' in my town called Travelbridge. A travel 'club' that charged it's members 5000.00 apiece to join. And what did these members get for their 5 grand...nothing. Could they get their money back? No. Travelbridge closed up and made a night run. Now, TB used Sabre as their booking engine so they were ARC (not necessarily IATA as you know)approved. So does having ARC make one legit. No. Can I set up at a card table outside of Walgreens and call myself a travel agency - why sure I can.
I find that people who are looking for something for nothing are the most likely to be scammed or cheated. And EVERYBODY thinks they deserve cheap or free travel. you should know that as YTB uses 'travel like a pro' as their hook.
Have a good day. I've got another busy one so TTFN.
Yes Americans do lose 12 million a year to travel fraud. And the coach takes that money and uses it to buy a plane. Duh!!
ReplyDeleteIs there any doubt at all that half of the pro-YTB posts today are from Doug? I think not.
ReplyDeleteI also don't think the YTB people realize that the recommendations of using a credit card would include them. They do call themselves travel agents. Ha!
Another TTA Falls From Grace..Literally took the money and ran. Pleads "guilty" 8 days ago.
ReplyDeleteTravel agent pleads guilty in fraud case
Marshfield News-Herald • May 22, 2008
A Marshfield travel agent has pleaded guilty in federal court to defrauding her customers. Marcia M. Meshak, 47, appeared in U.S. District Court in Madison to wire fraud for an amount of over $220,000.
Meshak owned a travel agency, Travel Pro, where she accepted payment for travel arrangements but kept the money.
The plea was announced by Erik C. Peterson, United States Attorney for the Western
District of Wisconsin.
Last summer Meshak reportedly collected more than $220,000 from her customers for hotel, airline and vacation reservations. She never made the arrangements, instead keeping the money to run her business.
She faces up to 30 years in prison when she’s sentenced Aug.28.
$12,000,000,000
- 220,000
--------------
$11,999,780,000 up for grabs for the next 12 months.
OleScorekeeper
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS FOR SILVERJET CUSTOMERS
ReplyDelete30 May 2008 - Bankrupt
Q: I have a reservation that I've already paid for on a future Silverjet flight. How can I get a refund?
A: If you have paid by credit card, we suggest you contact your credit card company from whom you should be able to obtain a refund. If you have paid by debit card or charge card please contact ATOL, Section CAA, 49 - 59 Kingsway, London, WC2B 6TE. Alternatively, if you booked your flights through a travel agent or shipping company, please contact them for assistance.
Another instance of "contact your travel agent." That would be difficult with YTB.
Travel pro hmmm that agency sounds familiar
ReplyDelete12 Billion in travel fraud would apply to ANYTHING in the travel industry. That means again booking directly on vendor sites. Do you have any protection against the notible "nigerian" credit card scams? Do you even know about them..agents do. But if they book directly on a website, whos to know, until the card is reported stolen/fraud use. It happens every day. I would be more concerned with the fact that the company I associate with comes up more times with the word scam next to it then the word travel. I wouldn't even want to work with a company that "might" be considered a scam. But thats just me.
ReplyDeleteTo say that 12 Billion dollars in fraud lays on the laps of TTA's is a far fetch even for you Ole.
But since we're on the subject of fraud yet again..has anyone ever gotten any proof of the PHD, Candi, the Phil Piccolo who wasnt the same Phil, etc etc. No because we divert away from that. If these people worked for my company I would certainly want to know who the hell they were and why people were lying/making stuff up to promote. Thats ethical.
And why is nobody complaining about the "anon" person above who used the word "sh*t" or calling someone a tool or liar, but if god forbid we do..we are unprofessional, un-motherly like, etc. As for you not liking whats posted..feel free to click the x..this is an ANTI-MLM blog, your not forced to read it, or post on it unless John is holding you at gunpoint..which I highly doubt.
eddie said..."Ole, you can say it but you can't prove that the 12 B fraud was all in the laps of TTA's. As john pointed out time shares are a very popular method of committing fraud."
ReplyDeleteOK, let's say you guys are right. So what's YOUR estimate on how much of the $12 billion do TTA's run off with each year? Any guesses?
OleScorekeeper
TravelLisa said, "To say that 12 Billion dollars in fraud lays on the laps of TTA's is a far fetch even for you Ole."
ReplyDeleteOK, same question for TravelLisa. So what's YOUR estimate on how much of the $12 billion do TTA's run off with each year?
OleScorekeeper
TL is correct. there is no way to brake down whose responsible for what with travel fraud.
ReplyDeleteAs for the Nigerian scam...no one can book a ticket to/from Africa with a credit card EXCEPT a travel agent via a GDS. Anyone want to guess why? Call BA, EK or DL and try to book using a cc....nope, won't happen.
karla said, "TL is correct. there is no way to brake down whose responsible for what with travel fraud."
ReplyDeleteJohn said, "travel is a big topic---time shares..car rentals, hotels, vacation programs, 2 fly frees, condo stays anywhere in the world, etc."
Well..my next question would then be,...Why is it that the US media is reporting on TTA after TTA criminal and fraudulant practices. There are so many MORE of these news reports then reports about "time shares..car rentals, hotels, vacation programs, condo stays" scams. Now please, no excuses! I'm simply ask..why?
OleScorekeeper
I would say less then 2 million from a TRUE Brick n Mortar agency, not a makeshift one..I'm talking true IATA/ARC certified agency.
ReplyDeleteBut then again I'm just guessing..
Here..you want a website for cases against card mills/vendors etc..heres one..nice big ole list for you
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ftc.gov/opa/1999/08/statecases.shtm
"Well..my next question would then be,...Why is it that the US media is reporting on TTA after TTA criminal and fraudulant practices. There are so many MORE of these news reports then reports about "time shares..car rentals, hotels, vacation programs, condo stays" scams. Now please, no excuses! I'm simply ask..why?"
ReplyDeleteBecause with a travel agent you are usually dealing with an individual as opposed to a faceless corporation. Makes much better press. I would hazard a guess to say that most of the fraud comes from people who respond to those fun postcards we've all gotten saying we've won a FREE 3 day vacation at such and such a resort or FREE cruise, if we call within 24hrs to claim our prize. And I have seen several consumer reporters do pieces on these and timeshare type scams. But like I said, it makes way better press when you can splash a face on the front page and say "JOE SCHMO DUPES SENIORS" rather than "SENIORS GET DUPED BY POSTCARD".
Hey Travel Pro is Candy May's company. LMAO!
ReplyDeleteLove this comment:
"Well on my street alone 7 of us will come up. Who do you use?"
ROTFLMAO at that comment. Just think you could be booking those 7 neighbor's travel AND make more money with better commission if you worked through a legit host than selling your neighbor's. And what happens when your neighbors get fed up and want their money back? You ain't going to be very popular in your neighborhood.
Must be a bunch of stupid neighbors in the trailer park to fall for that one. Here is the burbs where the houses are 350K plus my neighbors would shoot me if I tried to add them to my down line. The neighborhood association would probably run me right out. Only in a trailer park! LOL!
Even more interesting reading on that same FTC site.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ftc.gov/os/comments/bizoprevised/535221-00006.pdf
Sounds all too familiar
So how much money is everyone making (including John) for reading, posting, dragging up garbage information on TTA's, YTB, RTA's, SOB, VD, or whatever? Looks like a lot of profit and time well spent!
ReplyDeleteThanks TL, but that's rather old info from 1999. It was called "Operation Trip Trap," a joint law enforcement/consumer education effort targeting companies that misrepresent vacation packages through fraudulent telemarketing and other deceptive practices.
ReplyDeleteInteresting, but it doesn't get to the heart of my question,.. "Why is it that the US media is reporting on TTA after TTA for criminal and fraudulant practices? There are so many MORE of these news reports then reports about "time shares..car rentals, hotels, vacation programs, condo stays" scams."
OleScorekeeper
Our newspaper reported the Travelbridge scam. Sorry you missed it. I believe they had about 1300 people sign up - 1300x5000. Not bad for a few months work!
ReplyDelete"So how much money is everyone making (including John) for reading, posting, dragging up garbage information on TTA's, YTB, RTA's, SOB, VD, or whatever? Looks like a lot of profit and time well spent!"
ReplyDeleteLast year I made over six figures. This year I am on track to increase that significantly. And, I still have time to mock you, play a little golf and travel. Beats selling a downline like you RTA's do. And, the best part I am not ashamed of the company I worked for nor does any negative links come up on google when I search it.
Why is the media reporting all TTA's committing these crimes? Because jack ass ole they are lumping everyone together. The term travel agents is a generic term nowdays. It can mean a B&M, MLM rep, time share sales person, tour operator, anyone that slaps up a website, your buddies at Traverus. Anyone can call themself a travel agent and the media runs with it. And, there are more MLM, Card Mills than YTB. Peruse craigslist and look how many people on there are calling themselves travel agents when in fact they are not.
ReplyDeleteAnd, like someone pointed out above most agencies want people to pay by credit card to protect them.
Ann CTC said, "But like I said, it makes way better press when you can splash a face on the front page and say "JOE SCHMO DUPES SENIORS" rather than "SENIORS GET DUPED BY POSTCARD"."
ReplyDeleteYou have a valid point CTC, and I believe John's posting's of rogue RTA's (when he can find any) is definite proof of your premise.
OleScorekeeper
I dont know OLE I do not work for the media..but I'm sure you spend countless hours googling Rental car fraud, hotel fraud, etc etc you will find some media.
ReplyDeleteThe closest person I know in media is my sisters FIL whos the former director for the Guiding Light..but im not sure hes gonna help here.
John still hasn't addressed his BS in his post about 43 out of 100
ReplyDeleteWhy didn't any of the YTB people catch what John said about Shanghai Springs?
ReplyDeleteHe painted with a broad brush as if Shanghai and YTB are no longer partners. Shanghai Springs pays 25% commissions to YTB RTAs and has a lot of tours besides Europe and China.
"John still hasn't addressed his BS in his post about 43 out of 100"
ReplyDeleteUm, anonymous I found more than 43. Either you don't know how to search or you aren't the sharpest crayon in the box.
80 Million AMERICANS use the internet exclusively to book travel, so, certainly there is room for I would say 8 Million RTAs in this country before people "run out".
ReplyDeleteEven though we know that a lot of people just research and the "booking" of travel on the internet is actually done a lot of times by an agent I will use your number to play along.
Let's see -- 80 million serviced by 8 million ETA's give you 10 clients per RTA. You definitely would not be overworked! Math class anyone?
Just picture that!
John, can you please give another lesson in how to use the comment section and use a NAME?
ReplyDeleteIt's really not difficult but it may take some remedial training to have it sink in a bit. All these YTB's with Anonymous is really getting to me. If they are so proud of the company why all the time Anonymous? Heck -- even "Duck" would be better than Anonymous.
If it walks like a duck, etc.
The reason they go anon, is because 50% or more are the same posts from the same people. I would bet Doug posts a good percentage of them to support his normal dribble that comes from his mouth.
ReplyDeleteShanghai Springs is nothing that I would promote to buy packages from. Do you honestly think they bought all those olympic packages and "didnt know" they couldnt sell them to just anyone...? If you do then I have a piece of property in swamp land that I need to sell you. Come on!..So would I sell a package from them at 50% commission..hell No.!
ReplyDeleteHopefully everyone knows that google is fluid and the numbers will change from time to time. When I posted it, you were at 43. When I explained it again step by step (reprinted below for the slow learners) it was at 55, and now it is at 49. But pay attention here is where the number came from:
ReplyDeleteJohn said...
Congratulations you are at 55. Maybe they ought to have a google class at YTB U. Maybe after the Kooking With Kool Aid 101 Class.
Go here:
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&q=%22Travel+Scam%22&btnG=Search
Now, if you use Firefox or IE, press the CTRL key and hold it down and then press the F key. In Firefox a little window at the bottom will display. In IE a window will pop up. Where it looks for a search term type in these three letters YTB
Then click the button that says NEXT.
Here is where it gets complicated because you likely will run out of fingers, but each time you click NEXT, count one. Next 1, next 2, next 3, next 4, etc all the way to the bottom of the page and you will see that there are 55 mentions of YTB.
Not stories, not links, but mentions
May 30, 2008 10:23:00 AM
Anonymous said...Hey Travel Pro is Candy May's company. LMAO!
ReplyDeleteNay, nay, nay, nay. Candi's B&M was named Travel Professionals 4u. No kidding! Really! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
I meant to say "supposedly" B&M. The 4u is still listed accurately.
ReplyDeleteDoogie calls himself Travel Pro as well. LOL man that guy just knows how to affiliate with a scam or two don't he?
ReplyDeleteMartha and Anon, Just want to clarify that one cannot be a 'travelpro' and be an RTA at the same time. RTAs 'refer' they do not sell. There is nothing professional about being a part time referrer. Now, Some of YTB might be able to call themselve recruiterpro but that's about as 'pro' as you can get with YTB.
ReplyDeleteThank you.
I read on either the Yahoo or Google finance board that people refer to YTB as
ReplyDeleteYesterday's
Travel
Business
on Craiglist they are known as
ReplyDelete"YIDS taking Bribes"
much preffered would be
ReplyDeleteYOUR
THROUGH
BYE-BYE
Thinking YTB is through?
ReplyDeleteNot a chance.
Oh, how you wish.
We are hear for the long-run.
And loving it.
And love to watch the crass Marthas of the TTA world get worked up about YTB.
Her customers must be long-suffering.
YTB and TRAVEL: A Great Mix!
John said..."I read on either the Yahoo or Google finance board that people refer to YTB as
ReplyDeleteYesterday's
Travel
Business"
Well, if YTB lasts another 4 years, at an average of 6 topics per week from John that would be:
1248 Topics. (Of course most will be rehashed.)
208 Postings of "This Week's Top 5". I just love those.
1 hour per topic, which includes investigation, emails flying through cyberspace, formulation...and...30 minutes included for replying to others about ones own topics.
That's 1248 hours devoted to the cause for 4 years.
That amounts to working for YTB FOR FREE at 8 hours per day for 31.2 weeks.
As a comparison, the IRS only makes you work for free for 14.8 weeks from Jan to April.
Now between just the IRS and YTB, they have John tied up for 90.4 weeks after 4 more years from January 2008. That's 3616 hours, or nearly 151 twenty-four hour days.
Now that's devotion. ;>)
OleScorekeeper
Wow Ole, sounds like you have way to much time on your own hands to be calculating John's time.
ReplyDeleteAs for sir-mix-alot, everyone one is allowed to dream no? Maybe YTB will become legit and be around for the long-haul, somehow I doubt it, but in current form eventually the vendors will grow old of having to do all your work for you, the discounts you all spout about will run dry, everything will become net soon so poof goes those commissions to sit and do nothing, and the IRS will start auditing the foolishness. May not be today, but eventually...I've been in the industry alot longer, I've seen the signs...change is coming, and I'm not afraid of change.
Change in the industry is certainly afoot as we speak. I predict that there will be vast changes in the commission landscape VERY soon.
ReplyDeleteIt is already starting with one major cruise line--agencies are receiving letters today and over the next few days and the rest are likely to follow suit.
That 60% is not gonna amount to too much.
TravelLisa said..."Wow Ole, sounds like you have way to much time on your own hands to be calculating John's time."
ReplyDeleteNot at all TL.
One thing I forgot to mention was all the daily nasty grams sent out to orginizations like the NFL, Kansas City Chiefs, travel suppliers and vendors. Garsh, that's probably another 5 hours per week. Wow, this is really starting to add up.
OleScorekeeper
Ole--hate to disappoint you but the limit of my "involvement" is this blog, the petition, and a few message boards that I don;t hide behind some anonymous name. I am pretty straight forward.
ReplyDeleteSo since you are "in the know" why not post the email addresses and/or IP addresses of all these nastygrams that you are accusing me of sending.
JOhn you said in your blog not 43 mentions in the top 100 but 43 OF the top 100 mentinoed YTB, there is a big difference. Stop explaining to me how your found mentions. I was pointing out that your initial blog post is a lie.
ReplyDeleteYou lack of comprehension is shining brightly
There correction made? Happy? Now take back the "liar" comment, it hurts my feelings and I might sick Doug on you.
ReplyDelete"One thing I forgot to mention was all the daily nasty grams sent out to orginizations like the NFL, Kansas City Chiefs, travel suppliers and vendors. Garsh, that's probably another 5 hours per week. Wow, this is really starting to add up"
ReplyDeletePlease ole we have better things to do with our time unlike you who spend all day here bashing TTA's. I guess when you spend time in the Pen no one will hire you and obviously you have no life.
John,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the correction.
You fought and fought to keep it up, I think you are a liar and when 100% logic is used you had no choice but to CHANGE it.
You even admitted it in a previous blogpost that you stretch the truth.
But, thansk for manning up and correction.
I did not "fight hard". I do not stretch the truth, and if you can show me where I said it...go for it. I interpret what I find.
ReplyDeleteJust because it is different than your view doe not mean it is not my opinion.
And, as I have done on several other occasions, when I do make a mistake, I do correct it. I also allow all sides of this debate to be aired without moderation or editing. There are two posts that have been edited--one was when Proud TO Be YTB asked me to publicly confirm an RTAs number because she was too afraid to send me an email and subsequently asked me to remove the number; and the other was when one of your YTB zealots posted YTB ROCKS YOU SUCK (or something like that) 25 times in a row..I deleted the last 24!
SO there is something to be said about letting people express their opinion, if not, I imagine it would be a very one sided discussion like some other blogs I have seen.
This is not a letdown. In virtually cases the
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