As a continuation of my previous post, here are some of the comments which were made at the meeting on Thursday night. As you will see, it is all about recruiting. Please keep in mind that there was a lot more said; this is just what I took note of that was particularly remarkable to me. My comments are in parenthesis and italics after each comment. These comments are from notes they are NOT transcribed, so if a word or two is missing, I apologize, but the intent and message is accurate. - 85% of travel is now booked on the Internet and not with traditional agents. (This is up for dispute. I believe 85% of airline tickets may be booked online. I believe 85% of people may research online, but when several studies indicate that only 64% of the households in the
- This opportunity is 2 businesses inside of 1.(While they do say you can do one, the other or both, this evening it was presented as having to do both.)
- The travel commission was explained very well; but he alluded that airlines were commissionable. (The “commission” is a service fee attached to the airline ticket, essentially making it more expensive than Travelocity, since they tack on their own fee.)
- In 3-5 years it will be unfashionable to not have your own online booking engine. (I just thought this was an amusing line. It was repeated several times throughout the night and at one point he suggested that each member of the family would have their own YTB booking engine. Again, once everyone has their own, where does the revenue come from?)
- I joined because I could cruise for $40 a day. I wanted to travel wholesale. (This is critical. Here is a Director admitting what the hook was for him.)
- There are three reasons people join YTB—save money on travel, save money on taxes, or make money selling travel stores. (Nowhere does he mention anything about clients or selling travel. It is about saving on personal travel, tax advantages, or earning money on the recruitment end.)
- YTB is publicly traded and that means you do not need to do any investigating—the SEC does it all for you so you know they are legit. (This was probably the most frightening comment of the night.)
- Coach, Scott and Kim are equivalent today to what Walt Disney, Bill Gates, and Sam Walton were yesterday. (Well, maybe this was the most frightening.)
- This is a perfect opportunity for college students. (I thought this was very interesting. He is probably right. I suspect that a college student can come up with $500 and would likely do very well. Very interesting.)
- 7 Trillion spent on travel. Will double in 3 years because of baby boomers. (Again, the number may be in dispute, but he did reason this shift and I thought it was pretty decent as well. He said we have been following the baby boomers since birth. Gerber Baby food—mom does not need to chop up food, GI Joes and other toys that were pre packaged, Mini-vans for the convenience, and finally the housing market, now it is about travel since they are retiring. Not a bad way to look at the market in general.)
- FAM trips are a great way to show your family the world. As an “agent” it is my duty to “inspect” the properties I go to. (I was so insulted by this comment. Bringing family on FAM trips is what will get them eliminated. Obviously from this comment, it is a farce. I placed the quotation marks because he used the quote marks motion in his speech.)
- His brother wanted a hotel not on the site. He told him to go to the site and pick a similar one out of the 55,000 he had on there. Said he ended up at the Royal Hawaiian on
- The compensation plan was brushed over, but demonstrated with examples later in the presentation. (The plan was shown with examples later; the slides were sped though to get to more discussion of the FAM trips.)
- More FAM talks, wife and family tested a FAM for a Tour Company that took them to Europe for $899—Paris Amsterdam,
- Travel companies offer FAMS because they want you to recommend their products to your customers, so they bring you in and treat you royally. (This was particularly interesting as he is aware of why FAMS exist, has no problem taking advantage of the opportunity, but as was demonstrated with his brother, has no desire to really interact with his “clients” at any level. So how exactly does an RTA go about recommending and advising a client based on a FAM trip that they have taken?)
- This RTA Card is more valuable than any CLIA or IATAN card. Each day more and more vendors are making the decision to deal exclusively with YTB and will not accept those other cards. (WOW, talk about spin control. It seems that this indicates that any hope for reinstatement with IATAN is out the window. I am surprised CLIA was included here as well. Is CLIA beginning to take a look? And as for the statement itself; well, I will let it stand on it’s own merits—or lack thereof.)
- Be sure to sign up before the end of the year, because on January 1, there will be a requirement to sell travel to get your RTA card. Right now, you don’t need to sell a thing to get the benefits. (Once again, proof positive that this is not about selling travel. It is about the perks. Sign up now so you can get the perks without doing anything? Heaven forbid that you might have to actually sell something so you had best act now.)
- Had a meeting with Coach a few weeks ago and he does not want to do business with anyone that that is willing to do business with anyone else other than YTB. (This is a ballsy comment. So, is Coach now going to tell Carnival that unless they eliminate all other supply sources they will no longer sell their cruise line? How ridiculous is this. Now I can see that many vendors decide to NOT do business with YTB and the ones that are willing to work with them may be a sole source. But I suspect those vendors will be very small vendors that see the attraction of 136,000 RTAs and sketchy foreign entities—not a good place for the consumer.)
- Tax advantages are clear. Write off your internet bills, phone bills, cars, computers, business expenses and as long as you have The Travel Channel, you can write off your cable because as a travel agent this is your “research and development”. You can even write off your mortgage or rent because you are operating a business in your home. (He used his quote mark gesture again here. There are advantages to a home based business, but I am quite sure they are not to the extent displayed here. He did not mention checking with a tax advisor which I thought was odd.)
- We send out weekly emails to your clients, so all you need to do to build your business is give YTB marketing a copy of all the email addresses you have and they will send the newsletter. (Uhm, this is illegal. You need to have people opted in and you cannot just provide a list of names and spam them. I mean you CAN do it but it is illegal.)
- Once you recruit 6 people, your $49.95 monthly fee is waived. The one time set up is $449.95 and if you do it tonight, your site will be up and running before you get home. It takes 7 to 10 seconds to set up depending on who’s doing the typing at the home office. (The focus here? Recruitment! Getting back your $49,95 fee and having a completely free business. I laughed at the 7-10 second comment, I thought that was really funny.)
- The key to the compensation plan is that you make 50% off of all of your people’s earnings. I have one guy that I make $7K -$10K a month from. And that is just one guy and not counting my own stuff. (Recruitment and a statement of earnings?)
- Even if you hate the business, find six people that love it and live off of their earnings. (This just sounds smarmy to me.)
- I made over a million dollars last year and I am not saying that to impress you but to impress upon you how good this opportunity is. (Recruitment and income statements.)
- The average Level 1 Director is making $20K - $25K a month plus free health insurance and a $2000/month stipend from the home office and a $10,000 bonus.
- The average Level 2 Director is making $40K a month plus free health insurance and a $4000/month stipend from the home office and a $50,000 bonus.
- The average Level 3 Director is getting free health insurance and an $8000/month stipend from the home office and a $100,000 bonus.
- The average Level 4 Director is getting free health insurance and a $12,000/month stipend from the home office and a $250,000 bonus.
- The average Level 5 Director is getting free health insurance and a $15,000/month stipend from the home office and a $100,000,000 bonus. (All income statements that some claim are illegal to make. They are interesting and he did not give monthly commissions beyond Level 2. Now are these legitimate numbers? Anyone’s guess.)
- And while I was in
- Success From Home. This is a magazine that has featured YTB twice. It has a 8 month waiting list to be even considered and we have been picked twice in a year to be featured. If you ever needed to know about how credible YTB is, make sure you read this magazine. (A paid endorsement does not certify credibility. Michael Vick’s mom says he is a nice boy. A Federal Court felt otherwise.)
I hope that suppliers are reading this post in particular. I think it demonstrates the level of commitment that some people in YTB have to you and your products. Something needs to be done!
The suppliers already know...they see all the bookings we make.
ReplyDeleteLOL!
Some suppliers already know...they see all the bookings YTBers make...and dropped them.
ReplyDeleteLOL!!!
I'd love to see the CLIA drop them as well. YTB RTA card is being accepted...BAHAHAHAH!!!
ReplyDeleteJohn:
ReplyDeleteThanks for your report. You were complimentary in some respects, and I do believe your recantation is accurate. Unfortuntely, sometimes things are said at these hotel meetings that are not exactly complete (or accurate), which irks me. I could comment on each of your points, clarify what I thought the presenter meant, and how the presentations I have seen don't include some of the things you heard, or are presented differently, but you heard what you heard. I'm sure following commenters will do that. The point is that not every presentation is identical, although they should be, and there are hundreds every week throughout the country. I agree that more time should be spent on how important it is to sell travel once you become an RTA, and less on FAMs, and I think what you heard about tax deductions was exaggerated (but not too far off the mark).
I also wanted to point out that what you saw was marketing. I'm not condoning misrepresentations, but when promoting any product, you highlight the benefits. Part of the allure of this industry (travel) is the travel benefits. For me, it was the free health insurance for Reps (on the marketing side). For others, it is the leadership bonuses (again, marketing). You didn't hear much about selling travel, because that training, if one decides to do more than point people to his/her website, comes after becoming an RTA. We are committed to our vendors, and I have to say that what you heard about L. Tomer in that regard was off the wall.
It sounds like there was a bit too much fluff in this presentation, and was not like the presentations in my area, which emphasize working your business like a business (we are looking for people that are willing to work).
Thanks again for your report.
iontop: Peronally, I would like to see the YTB RTA card eliminated, and compel RTAs to get a CLIA and IATAN (if that will ever be possible again), just like everyone else.
You know how all the traditional travel agents spout off about how the MLM agents are only signing up for the perks of travel?
ReplyDeleteQuote from the US Bureau of Labor
"Travel benefits, such as reduced rates for transportation
and lodging, attract many people to this occupation."
Gee...I thought the TTA's only wanted to book travel when they became an agent.
!! lol
Anonymous--you are an idiot! Yes that may be an attraction but that also indicates that we sell!
ReplyDeleteAs john said in some interview--just because I sell a watch on ebay does not make me a jeweler.
If the MLM YTB crowd woudl concentrate of selling travel--we have no problejke sharing the pie. It is when you have zero interest in selling travel and assisting clients but all interest in taking the perks that we get pissed of!
John, you made mention of Travelocity, and I think it was a general one made as an example, but specifically, I have found that flights booked on YTB are consistently $1 less than Travelocity. I just searched the cheapest fare from CLE to FLL 1/15-1/22 on NWA, but this time it was $2 less, and the same as Expedia.
ReplyDeleteTravelocity powers your airline booking engine. In order to pay your "commission" there is a $6 (I believe) mark up, so the Travelocity site will usually be lower than a YTB site.
ReplyDeleteI would imagine that on the rare times when it is not, there may have been a lapse in the time between fare loading in the GDS to Travelocity to YTB.
I also question the back office report I saw that showed a booking date and an invoice date being two different days. If this is true, it is possible that YTB is using yesterday's fares and someone is receiving DMs or has a deal to offset them.
"We send out weekly emails to your clients, so all you need to do to build your business is give YTB marketing a copy of all the email addresses you have and they will send the newsletter. (Uhm, this is illegal. You need to have people opted in and you cannot just provide a list of names and spam them. I mean you CAN do it but it is illegal.)"
ReplyDeleteYou're right, and that's not how it works, and it's not a newsletter. We can input someone's name and email address into the "Deals and Steals" section of the marketing website, or visitors can input it themselves, and YTB will send an email to the address asking if they consent to receive these weekly offers. YTB is very finicky about spam. If you want to verify this, go to a site that you know of (maybe Doug's?) and enter your info.
"As john said in some interview--just because I sell a watch on ebay does not make me a jeweler.
ReplyDeleteBut that does make you a seller of watches.
William the Idiot said, "If the MLM YTB crowd would concentrate of selling travel--we have no problejke sharing the pie."
ReplyDeleteOh Willy, you are an idiot!
Why would you want us to sell travel? You don't want us to share the pie. You hate us!!! lol
We send out weekly emails to your clients, so all you need to do to build your business is give YTB marketing a copy of all the email addresses you have and they will send the newsletter. (Uhm, this is illegal. You need to have people opted in and you cannot just provide a list of names and spam them. I mean you CAN do it but it is illegal.)
ReplyDeleteI believe they do this so that if you decide to leave, they still have people they can try and recruit into the business. That's a common ploy. Then what they (the recruiters) do is call or in this case, email all of your friends claiming that you (their friend) gave the recruiter their name and well, let the recruiting begin.
John, did you "laugh out loud" or just silently chuckle to yourself??
ReplyDeleteI laughed at the 7-10 second comment, I thought that was really funny.)
The newsletter is just as it says it is. It's a detail of the best rates given out each week. There is absolutely NO "Join Us" business ploy attached.
ReplyDeleteAs Watch us grow said, the person whose e-mail address is entered DOES receive an e-mail asking whether they consent or reject this option.
Also, from what you describes, that was what I would describe as a... well, I wouldn't say poorly delivered presentation. At presentations I give, and also have witnessed being given here, we DO stress that FAM trips are not to be abused, and that YES, we are in it to sell travel. I strongly state thet FAM trips are a privlige... NOT a right.
I also make a point to state that people SHOULD ask their CPAs about the tax benefits.
I wonder, did they explain the new criteria for California when it comes to earning credentals? I also mention it, because starting January 1, 2008, this criteria will be in effect for ALL 50 states, and it NEEDS to be known!
I also wonder how many traditional travel agents abuse the FAM trips??? I bet there's a good number who do.
I also took the liberty to compare the prices of airfare from TIA to ISP from Dec 27,2007 to Jan 4, 2008 on both YTB and Travelocity.
The cheapest price on YTB was $259.00 and on Travelocity was $260.00.
OIther comparisons... using same dates but with different cities:
SAC to DFW
YTB $392.00
Trav $394.00
JFK to SEA
YTB $394.00
Trav $396.00
This falsified John's statement, because YTB is designed to either be the same as Travelocity or cheaper mainly when it comes to flights.
And to clarify how YTB's RTAs get paid from booked flights (taken from my back office):
"AIRLINE TICKETS:
This seems to be the area of biggest confusion. Virtually all of the domestic carriers no longer pay commissions on direct reservations. As an RTA with YTB you can however earn commission for flights booked through your booking engine. This commission is paid to YTB by Travelocity Partner Network, not the airline, and you will not earn anything if you book the same flights directly with the carrier or through travelocity.com
Reservations must be made through the link on your booking engine for you to receive commissions. Domestic flights booked on other website links are not commissionable."
Also, to clarify about the training we receive:
"• Destination Training Resources
Many popular travel destinations from Cancun to Alaska, Las Vegas to Maui offer travel agent training programs to help you sell their destination with confidence. These programs enable you to learn important details about places you may not have visited that you can share with your travel clients. Check out these great resources and become an expert on destinations you want to promote. Some of these programs offer special incentives or perks to agents who complete the training available.
• Travel Supplier Training Resources
Many of our suppliers offer extensive training programs to help you understand and sell their travel products. Some of them offer various "specialist" designations which carry benefits or perks for agents who take the time to learn about their product line. Check out these great resources, and become an expert on the products you really want to sell."
I suggest that you hit up other meetings besides that one, because different people give the presentation different ways.
The whole thing is pretty amazing.
ReplyDeleteI took a look at their website, and felt like I needed to go wash off the sleaze when I got done. Clearly it's nothing more than a brochure about their giant egos.
I also cannot believe that they would claim the CLIA and IATA cards and memberships will become worthless and that the only travel organization worthy of reconition will be YTB. Of all the false and misleading statements that they made, I think that one takes the cake.
We all do things to market our business, but the type of marketing used at this meeting falls under the sleazy and deceptive catagory. This is also a prime example of why this blog exsists! The main goal of at least this little part of the pyramid is recruiting and selling websites. So why have the people who are doing it call themselves travel agents?? Just because you are abusing the benefits it doesn't make you a travel agent.
I actually did laugh out loud at that. As I said the presentation was very good and there were some very funny and entertaining parts. It was not painful to sit through by any means.
ReplyDeleteOn the newsletter deal. If you read your RTA agreement, you do not own the clients. YTB owns them and you are not allowed to solicit them once you leave for a period of time. So, likely when you leave, they may indeed solicit them to join the program or shift their names to another RTA that still is in the program. With sites that are identical, it would be difficult for the average Joe to realize the switch had occurred. And as for the opting in. I am signed up and the message I received was that I had opted in--if I wanted to OPT OUT, to click on the link. Also, as with most email programs, emails entered through the back door are typically just entered without any opt in or opt out requirements. ANd I believe there must be (have not received it yet) some recruitment pitch on the weekly deals.
As to the California requirements, it was not covered or mentioned in the meeting. We were in MD and since the majority were in YTB, I assume they know, and since the few guests were in Maryland, I assume it does not apply to them. But there was a big push to join before the end of the year because at the end of the year, YTB will actually require you to show $1500 in travel sales before issuing the credentials. Oh imagine the horror!
Additional training was also not addressed at the meeting. As I said it was all about marketing. And if this is approved by YTB (as I imagine it needs to be since a Level 3 Director presented it), I go back to my premise that it is not about travel and ALL about recruiting underlings to pay the upline.
Well, the California law should have been addressed regardless of how amny people there are already RTAs and how many are guests.
ReplyDeleteAs for the Opt in and opt out comment regarding the newsletter, this means what I said above. Opt in (to accept the newsletter) Opt out (to decline the newsletter). Here is a couple of samples of what you actually receive in e-mail regarding the newsletters.
(I left my nsme out of it)
When your e-mail address is entered, you receive this first:
"You have received this message because your email address was submitted by (insert name here)for you to start receiving his or her weekly "Deals & Steals" travel specials.
To confirm your subscription, simply click the link below.
Subscribe Me To The Travel Deals and Steals
You may choose to quit receiving these travel specials at any time by clicking "Unsubscribe" at the bottom of any future correspondence. If you do not wish to receive the weekly Deals & Steals travel specials, or you believe that your address was submitted in error, simply ignore this email. If you do not want to confirm your subscription, please DO NOT reply to this message. Thank you for your consideration!
The yourTravelBiz.com Team
If you have any questions regarding this email please feel free to contact us at the address below."
Then, when YOU CONFIRM that YOU want the newsletter, YOU receive this e-mail:
"You have been subscribed to receive the weekly "Deals & Steals" travel specials by (insert name here)
To unsubscribe, simply click the link below.
Unsubscribe Me From Travel Deals and Steals
You may choose to quit receiving these travel specials at any time by clicking "Unsubscribe" at the bottom of any future correspondence.
The yourTravelBiz.com Team
If you have any questions regarding this email please feel free to contact us at the address below."
This is how the Deals and Steals program works. The client IS in FULL CONTROL as to whether he or she wants the newsletter.
Judging by the way you mentioned how the meeting was presented, I personally wouldn't call it a great meeting. They skipped a lot of the information I mentioned above.
Also, when the opportunity came up, you should have asked questions instead of waiting to see if anyone else had any to ask.
Again, you mentioned that the downline pays the upline. This is such a bogus statement. YTB pays everyone! I don't steal half of my downline's pay. YTB pays me a 50% match and it has absolutely NO effect on anyone in my downline.
About the ARC, CLIA part of the comment:
"I also cannot believe that they would claim the CLIA and IATA cards and memberships will become worthless and that the only travel organization worthy of reconition will be YTB. Of all the false and misleading statements that they made, I think that one takes the cake."
Who said that? Did they say this at the meeting???
I'd like to know.
What John didn't mention is that in the new laws regarding earning your credentials, it states that the booking of your own travel (primary or seondary) DOES NOT count towards the $1,500 requirement. Also, to be eligible for the CLIA card, one must have ata minimum of $2,500 in travel booked on their website annually. again, an RTAs own personal travel DOES NOT count towards the $2,500.
ReplyDeleteJohn, when you go to another meeting, ask that they show the Califonia laws so you can read them. On Jan 1, 2008, the laws will apply to every single RTA. YTB did not set up these laws. It was the industry that set them up for YTB.
YTB is taking strides to ensure that things are done properly.
He did not say they would be worhthless. The comment was made that the YTB card was more important than CLIA or IATAN as all the suppliers are shifting to accepting ONLY the YTB card \. Then it was stressed that you need to do it by Jan 1 before you actually have to sell travel to get the card.
ReplyDeleteSo this...
ReplyDelete"I also cannot believe that they would claim the CLIA and IATA cards and memberships will become worthless and that the only travel organization worthy of reconition will be YTB. Of all the false and misleading statements that they made, I think that one takes the cake."
... was never actually said.
What the point that was said is that the ID card is NOT worthless. The IATAN number is also an ARC number. because of this, it is still accepted under ARC.
I recall John mentioning somewhere that ARC and IATAN are at war with each other to figure out who controls what numbers.
Proud--I never said what you quoted. What was said was that the YTB RTA card was more valuable than any CLIA or IATAN card because suppliers are deciding to deal exclusively with YTB and will only accept the YTB card. This was a good lead in to signing up before the end of the year.
ReplyDeleteARC and IATAN argue on whose number it is. I routinely refer to it as "my ARC" number--maybe it is easier to say. But they share the same digits and both organizations claim to "issue" the number and both have said that the other merely "uses" the number. CLIA also piggy backs on that and if an organization has an IATA number, they will use that. If not, they will issue their own.
They do say that if you no longer have an IATA number that your CLIA number will indeed change. So CLIA does not accept ARC numbers as gospel from what I hear.
Metre Wishom told me that CLIA maintains an office in the YTB Headquarters. Maybe someone could call and find out for sure?
Again, I noticed something posted about a FAM trip that was taken (a few lines up) to Paris.
ReplyDeleteYTB strongly emphasizes the rules regarding FAM trips. Here's a rule ststed in my back office regarding the guidelines for FAM trips:
"FAM trips are designed for the RTA and spouse/guest, and not children. These trips are to FAMiliarize yourself with that resort, cruise ship, etc. You must attend any tours or meetings that are required for RTA’s to receive that FAM Trip rate."
Also, to even qualify for a FAM trip, an RTA MUST be CERTIFIED!
"Must be an active Certified RTA with YTB Travel Network."
Again, the RTA pays for certification class. It's not automatic.
I just thought I'd touch back on those points since for some odd reason, they continue to be an isssue.
Also, as stated before, FAM trips are designed and controlled by the vendors... not the agency.
"A word about discounted travel and FAM trips: Many vendors in the industry provide discounted travel to qualified travel agents. The reason they do this is to FAMiliarize the agent with their property, products and services, thereby promoting full-fare customer bookings. This is a successful marketing strategy by the vendor, intended to generate new business for them. And it’s a privilege for the travel agent to be able to take advantage of these courtesies."
"Some travel vendors might enforce additional booking requirements that are stricter than YTB’s, and YTB will honor those requirements. (Example: In order to book a discount cruise on Princess Cruise Lines you must have sold a minimum of FOUR (4) regular rate cabins on that cruise line. Holland America requires a minimum of FIVE (5) previous bookings of regular rate cabins to qualify.) All future reduced rate cabins on Princess Cruise Lines will require 4 additional regular rate cabins while Holland America will require 5 additional cabins on the respective cruise line"
I didn't say that you said it John. I just stated that it was said here, and I quoted it.
ReplyDeleteCLIA does have an office with CLIA representatives in YTB HQ (as well as other agencies). These people handle any CLIA questions regarding the card travel, training or anything associated with it. This includes overseeing that all CLIA card requests are channeled properly from YTB HQ to CLIA HQ. The reps at YTB HQ do not issue the CLIA cards themselves.
ReplyDeleteProud-- I am quite sure that there are all sorts of guidelines in your backoffice. My point is that it does not translate to the field. The statement was that it was a FAM for he and his family--does he have kids? I dunno. But there was no clarification as to what a FAM was other than an opportunity to travel for free or on a huge discount. We were told that there were hundreds of FAMS to choose from in the back office. Again, what is reality and what is sold are two separate things and this is an issue I have. He did not address RTA earnings--he was all about saying as a REP/Director he earned over $1M last year. He told us the earnings of all the levels of directors and so forth, but did not address the $70 average earnings for RTAs.
ReplyDeleteAs to your assertion about CLIA. Someone needs to get their stories straight and I think that it might indeed be worthy of a post. My comment to Metre was in jest because when she tossed that out (along with her going to buy a Cocaine White Bentley) I checked with CLIA and here is their answer:
rom Gaye Stewart-Loudis GStewart-Loudis@cruising.org
to jfrenaye@gmail.com,
cc Shelly Coppersmith shelly@ytb.com,
byebyeretailtravel@yahoo.com,
Bob Sharak BSharak@cruising.org,
date Aug 17, 2007 9:10 AM
subject FW: YTB
mailed-by cruising.org
hide details Aug 17
Reply
John,
We have no onsite CLIA paid employees at YTB, or another agency for that matter.
Thank you.
Gaye Stewart-Loudis
Cruise Lines International Association
CLIA
Director of Membership
910 SE 17th Street
Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33316-2968
754.224.2205 phone
754.224.2252 fax
gstewart@cruising.org
www.cruising.org
- Show quoted text -
-----Original Message-----
From: jfrenaye@gmail.com [mailto:jfrenaye@gmail.com]On Behalf Of John Frenaye
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 4:35 PM
To: Metre Wishom
Subject: Re: YTB
- Show quoted text -
So who is telling the truth here? It appears that this answer was sent to several people at CLIA as well as someone at YTB and to Metre.
Is CLIA pulling a fast one over the industry? I want a CLIA rep here in my office! NO fair!
I did address that average in another topic here. I will find it and cut and paste it here.
ReplyDeleteI posted this somewhere else, so I copied and pasted it here... quoting myself quoting the charts.
ReplyDelete"Now, John also mentioned the "earnings chart" way back when. Now that John went to a meeting, I'm sure he has been informed about what it means.
Those who are not in their "power Teams" and have not shared the business with others in the month of July 2007 escalading down to those who did share the business opportunity with others in July 2007.
Amount Reps
$1 to $50 5,080
$50.01 to $100 1,109
$100.01 to $200 585
$200.01 to $500 123
$500.01 to $1,000 8
$1,000.01 to $2,500 4
$2,500.01 to $5,000 1
$5,000.01 to $10,000 0
Those who ARE in their "Power Teams" who didn't share the business opportunity in July 2007 esclading down to those who did share the business opportunity with others in July 2007.
$1 to $50 1,889
$50.01 to $100 755
$100.01 to $200 977
$200.01 to $500 963
$500.01 to $1,000 257
$1,000.01 to $2,500 933
$2,500.01 to $5,000 270
$5,000.01 to $10,000 102
Over $10,000 91
Includes 94 YTB Directors receiving PowerTeam commissions, an average of $36,099.87 per Director.
*** This is PER MONTH! Most Directors are Level 1 Directors... like myself, and keep in mind that this average was set in July. It's much higher now.
This is from the marketing side alone."
Proud your not addressing your lying about the CLIA onsite.
ReplyDeleteAs usual, it is proven you were lying and your completely ignoring it. I hope everyone understands, that your lying about a bunch of stuff and to take anything you say very lightly. Get your story straight before you spout out your garbage.
Proud--I was saying that there was no information on the earnings from RTAs. This meeting was about signing up RTAs AND Reps. They never mentioned what an RTA makes--only what a director makes.
ReplyDeleteHas anyone else noticed that traditional agents keep trying to argue ethics and principals, and YTBers ALWAYS take it back to money??
ReplyDeleteDo I care how much YTB sells a cruise or an airline ticket for? No.
Do I care about how much the YTB office claims to do in sales?
No.
Do I care about some crazy woman with a cocaine white bently, or a fat guy with a webcam in California who both claim to be millionaires and closer to God thanks to YTB?
No.
What I do care about is the fact that there are thousands of YTBers who can't even find Peru on a map that are running around claiming to be travel agents, and taking gross abuse of suppliers fams. I care about the fact that day after day some idiot with a website that is nothing more than a testament to his own ego stands in front of a room full of people and tells them that they can be a travel agent with no experience simply by handing over $449.00. I care about the fact that a company such as YTB has done nothing but allow their untrained, uneducated reps to damage the credibility of our industry. And I care about the fact that for some reason the mlmers who post seem to think that as long as they are producing income that everything will be fine, and traditional agents are a bunch of idiots.
Can anyone show me a YTBer with their atc or ctc? Or a degree? Or maybe even a couple of paragraphs about what they have done to try to enhance this industry? Could any of you even pass the TAP test?
It doesn't matter how much you make if you defraud others to make it. Doesn't anybody get that?
Hey YTBScam, it just so happens that I have a life away from the computer. I didn't respond because i wasn't available to respond. Maybe it is CCL reps who have an office at YTB. All I know is that someone from outside YTB is there to oversee the CLIA applications... or at least may have been for a while. There was something mentioned of it.
ReplyDeleteand YTBScam, all that has been coming from you was bs. Why don't youpost some of your own info rather that "yes"ing to death everything John and iotop say?
Also to answer again about FAM trips... here's guidelines taken from our back office.
"FAM trips are designed for the RTA and spouse/guest, and not children. These trips are to FAMiliarize yourself with that resort, cruise ship, etc. You must attend any tours or meetings that are required for RTA’s to receive that FAM Trip rate."
To get a FAM rate, we MUST comply with all aspects that deal with the FAM trip! If it involves a tutorial tour, we MUST take it! If it involves a tutorial class... we MUST attend!
and to refer to the comment by Temptress about ctc (certified travel councelor)...
"• Destination Specialist Programs
Many popular travel destinations offer special training and certification programs for travel agents. The requirements and benefits vary widely, but every program helps participants become knowledgeable about the destination and the properties and activities available there. This helps you sell the destination, and gives you valuable information to share with your travel clients."
In other words, we are given every tool available to become SPECIALISTS!
Did I also mention that we are trained DIRECTLY from the vendors and that I take up all the training I can.
It is also NOT the RTAs that bring up the money aspect all the time. It is only when it is questioned that we bring it up. Did you ever hear the expression, "Don't ask... don't tell?" Well, if people here wouldn't question it, or come up with a bumbled interpretation of it, I wouldn't have to explain it.
Yet I still wonder how many traditional travel agents out there abuse the FAM trip privilege. I bet that there are a lot of them, but nobody complains because they are not a part of a giant organization.
ReplyDeleteMost FAM trips do not allow you to bring your spouse or significant other unless they too are actively selling travel. Usually there is a limit to the number of participants per agency.
ReplyDeleteThis is NOT intended to allow your guest to travel for a discount.
Regarding traditional agents abusing fam trips sorry to disappoint you proud to be YTB these are WORKING trips for us. They have site inspections, seminars and presentation that most of us want to attend so we can understand the destination better and serve our clients. I have yet to be on one fam trip that was a pleasure trip or have seen traditional agents there to take a vacation. That is a total misconception. You do not understand the traditional agent nor do you get it. To be honest, I am so busy servicing and taking care of my clients I don't have time to go on fam trips or a vacation! My clients come first something which you have no concept of.
ReplyDelete"Had a meeting with Coach a few weeks ago and he does not want to do business with anyone that that is willing to do business with anyone else other than YTB."
ReplyDeleteThis is actually a violation of IRS policies regarding employees versus independent contractors. A host, not even YTB, can forbid an IC from working with any other company (travel or nontravel MLM even).
If this is written out in their contract, this can cause a lot of problems for YTB corporate.
Proud said "Maybe it is CCL reps who have an office at YTB."
ReplyDeleteYet when CCL is asked they also say no paid CCL employee works inside YTB HQ. When one YTBer mentioned Anne Sedgwick did YTBs weekly training calls, and that this somehow "proved" Anne worked out of YTB HQ, we pointed out to him/her that training calls can be conducted from anywhere ... Anne doesn't even have to be in the same state ... so again, misstating who works "in" YTB HQ.
temptress said...
ReplyDelete"Regarding traditional agents abusing fam trips sorry to disappoint you proud to be YTB these are WORKING trips for us. They have site inspections, seminars and presentation that most of us want to attend so we can understand the destination better and serve our clients. I have yet to be on one fam trip that was a pleasure trip or have seen traditional agents there to take a vacation. That is a total misconception. You do not understand the traditional agent nor do you get it. To be honest, I am so busy servicing and taking care of my clients I don't have time to go on fam trips or a vacation! My clients come first something which you have no concept of."
Excuse me? Didn't I post above that I know what FAM trips are all about? YES! Did it say thet in the post I posted that FAM trips are NOT family vacations? YES!
I have FULL concept of what FAM trips are for, as I also posted that I know they they include seminatrs and instructional tours.
Try reading everything I type before you comment!
Just because I am YTB, it doesn't mean I don't know the rules!!!
Again, I still wonder how many traditional travel agents there are who do abuse the FAM trips. I'm not saying that you do personally Temptress, but I'm sure there are those who do. To deny it would be ignorance.
For the record, when traveling with my family, I have always paid full price. Yes, when I got to my destinations, I did have a few upgrades, but that's because I used proper protocol and was curteous when asking. If they didn't want to accomodate, they wouldn't have.
"Proud--I was saying that there was no information on the earnings from RTAs. This meeting was about signing up RTAs AND Reps. They never mentioned what an RTA makes--only what a director makes."
ReplyDeleteAnd John, they can't point out what an RTA makes, because different RTAs make different amount of commission based on how much travel or what kind of travel they do or don't sell. They can't go saying that an RTA makes $20,000 a year if what Joe YTB makes $20,000 a year and Jane YTB only makes $5,000 a year.
They state what a REP makes at each level, because that is set in stone. I can tell exactly what each PowerTeam Leader, Director 1, D2, D3, D4, D5, D6 makes from marketing alone for it is written out for all to see!
"Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteProud said "Maybe it is CCL reps who have an office at YTB."
Yet when CCL is asked they also say no paid CCL employee works inside YTB HQ. When one YTBer mentioned Anne Sedgwick did YTBs weekly training calls, and that this somehow "proved" Anne worked out of YTB HQ, we pointed out to him/her that training calls can be conducted from anywhere ... Anne doesn't even have to be in the same state ... so again, misstating who works "in" YTB HQ."
The home office has no "outside" CLIA or CCL people that work there. Their CLIA people are trained but are hired by YTB. Same with all people in the travel department. Trained, but hired by YTB. I believe Anne was there for the Carnival Sale Day or whatever it was called, but she by no means works from there.
I imagine that telling what the average RTA makes (see the July postings) might not be the best number for recruiting, so it is conveniently left out.
ReplyDeleteIf anyone was even smart enough to do some basic math, $226M @ 10% = $22.6M in commissions divided by (at that time)63,000 RTAs= $358.73 a year. Hey and that is going by the numbers YTB gleaned.
The math may be off with commissions and bookings coming in at different times, but just seeing this might give me a clue that I might need to look a bit further into the situation
Proud to be YTB you wrote this:
ReplyDelete"how many traditional travel agents out there abuse the FAM trip privilege. I bet that there are a lot of them, but nobody complains because they are not a part of a giant organization."
December 17, 2007 4:02 AM
I was responding to this! You wrote about free fam trips for yourself and the traditional agents abusing them then you try to back pedal now? Are you on something or just keep getting tangled up in your web? BTW~I am not travel temptress. Talk about not reading and comprehending.
"Again, I still wonder how many traditional travel agents there are who do abuse the FAM trips. I'm not saying that you do personally Temptress, but I'm sure there are those who do. To deny it would be ignorance."
ReplyDeleteThere are, as in every industry, people who cheat and lie and in the past there have been Traditional Travel Agents who have taken advantage of FAM trips with no intention of working while on the trip. This has changed drastically in the past 5-6 years. Before that time I would run into Travel Agency Accountants or Receptionists on these trips who were just along for the ride and the beach. However, after 9/11 everything tightened up in the industry and I no longer see these people. Every FAM I've been on since 2001 is one two which I have been specifically invited by a Vendor or Tourist Board where the Rep knows me, knows what I sell, or know what I could sell for them if I only knew the destination/resorts better. The days when a announcement would go out to thousands of Agents/Agencies for a FAM opportunity are over - only the best, producing Agents are invited on true FAMs - rather than the packages at net you seem to believe are FAMs.