I was just looking over this blog and discovered a very glaring trend. It seems that when facts and figures are posted, there are very few comments. But when opinion is stated, they fly out the door. Could it be that when presented with facts, figures, and citations that there really is nothing to say?
- Rufus, his boogers and YTB
- Tony tell us about $100K a month income
- Exaggerations from the beginning
- Consumer fraud in the US
- More exaggerations and misinformation
- Math help part 1
- More perks, less travel
- Math help, part 2
- Speaking of exaggerated claims (TraverUs)
- The MLM attitude emerges
- IATAN gives 4 agencies the boot
- A different view of the math
- YTB contracts exposed
But boy, let me toss out an opinion and watch out. These all had more than 30 comments each:
What does one glean from this? It seems to me that when it is commentary, people will attack and be loud and clear with anything they feel to be "fact". But when true fact is presented, it becomes painfully obvious that the commenter is incapable of defending his or her "factual" position. Brings to mind the axiom "Let the facts speak for themselves".
PS. This was a fun post to do--I really like Rufus and his boogers. Always gives me a chuckle!
When you one of those posts picks on one of the most respected people in YTB (Doug Bauknight) we know he can handle his own. We don’t have to defend him. Tony’s comments are also based in fact, and I know these Directors make that much money, so why comment?
ReplyDeleteOthers, may only have just a “few comments”, they may be simply an issue for you, not others. Other comments I notice slam shut your notion within a comment or two and since there is no rubutel to those comments, we assume you got the message that your facts are wrong.
We’ve also been hearing for years about how many people think YTB is a pyramid. Yet, no Government Agency, including the AG in Rhode Island has ever documented that YTB is in fact an illegal pyramid. We have to assume that those who are in charge of determining what is legal or illegal realize that YTB is a legal business model. We’ve been in business for 7 full years now. You would think that with all the claims of being a pyramid out there, the FTC, SEC, and AG’s know about what we’re doing, but yet they don’t lift a finger. Why?
Because they have the facts and you don’t.
Sorry.
The organization is like a pyramid scheme. It is not legally because you do sell a product--no matter how minimally, but it may not pass muster with close to 80% of revenues coming from selling the business opportunity.
ReplyDeleteAnd all of yoru income (well most of it) is depending on your downline to support you. When it goes away, what happens? Doe YTB keep paying you because they have a bill of rights?
I mean to say it is not illegal because you sell a product
ReplyDeleteI noticed that a lot of the topics end with a YTB comment leading me to believe that those opposed have run out of steam.
ReplyDeleteI noticed that a lot of the topics end with a YTB comment leading me to believe that those opposed have run out of steam.
ReplyDeleteYou keep on thinking that.....maybe it is that the YTB comments are so foolish ans stupid no one cares to respond!
"YTB comments are so foolish ans stupid no one cares to respond!"
ReplyDeleteI was thinking while reading the post the opposite. LOL!
William, you need to get a clue. Every company, your family tree, even the Government has a pyramid structure.
It's the strongest structure known to man. (Look at the Pyramids in Egypt.) The difference is that people working in MLM can and make more that the people above them. I can think of a number of people making more than the owners of the company. Juliet St. John just became a Level 6 Director BEFORE Peter Jenson who sponsord her.
You don't find that in Corporate America. The VP never makes more than the Owners.
Try again, or get a clue.
Hey folks, in the last post topic JF said, "So, last year, I made $943,386,000. So, there you have it, I have undeniably proven and unequivocally demonstrated...."
ReplyDeleteJohn, you have not proven anything!
You only made a statement without facts.
OK John, before all readers of this blog, I challenge you to prove your salt and post your IRS tax filings that back up your words and worth.
Folks, I can honestly tell you John will weasel out on this challenge. Let's see just how he spins his answer.
So, when I make a statement without facts is is wrong, but when Proud to be YTB makes one we are to treat it as gospel? Does he has a special note from a higher being that makes this so?
ReplyDeleteAnd, I know that sometimes I use math, humor, alliteration, analogies and so forth. Please try to keep up with the class Mr. "I am afraid to put my name down so I will post anonymously" my post about making $935M was humor. As was my statement about Italian vehicles and clothing ending in vowels.
I w i l l t r y t o s l o w t h i n g s d o w n f o r y o u i n t h e f u t u r e and if I can't, just post something stupid and it will remind me!
NICE SPIN JOB JOHNNY!
ReplyDeleteJohn said...
"So, when I make a statement without facts is is wrong, but when Proud to be YTB makes one we are to treat it as gospel?
Well, here we go folks. The man can't stand on his on two...has to act like a kindergartener and draw another individual into the discussion in order to defend himself. Johnny, you just might have well said, in s child like voice, "Well Mr. Anon... (snibble,snibble)...Proud does it too and that's not fair! I'm taking my toys and going home!!!!"
"And, I know that sometimes I use math, humor, alliteration, analogies and so forth."
Oh, Johnny! Your are so so funny. We are all laughing at you. You should be so proud of yourself!
"Please try to keep up with the class Mr. "I am afraid to put my name down so I will post anonymously"
Now that is sooo sweat. Sorry that anyone posting anonymously, including your traditional boys, offends you so much. GROW UP Johnny!
And still I challenge you, Mr. Johnny SpinMeister, to post your IRS tax filings stating your worth. We all want to see, just as you want to see ours!
I've got my posse here too John!
ReplyDeleteAnd like I said, the only name I use here is "Proud to be YTB" because that is what I am!!! I'd use my real name, but you might do a search, find my website... send malicious e-mails, etc.
just be grateful that I am trying to teach you about YTB so you can get the facts before you start rambling on! BTW... you still got crap all over your mouth! Get a roll of toilet paper and wipe it off!
I don't have to fabricate my earnings with YTB! I was quite straight forward!
With the travel I booked for people, and the travel my downline has booked for people, I have made just over $63,000.00 for the year!
I also posted other figures that explains how I make over $30,000.00 a month through the marketing aspect as a LEVEL 1 DIRECTOR!!!
Go to the meeting, and you will learn how!
I got a car, and don't have to worry about car payments!
My 15 year mortgage has turned into a 2 year mortgage... as by before the middle of next year, my house will be paid off!
My credit cards (which were maxed) are down to $0 balance!
The only bils I have left to worry about... if you want to say worry... are my utilities, cable, cellphone, internet, gas (for the car), car insurance, and property taxes/homeowner's insurance! Which a lot of it I can write off in taxes!!!
LIFE IS GREAT!!!
I believe the issue here is that John has never "claimed" he makes X amount of dollars, only in jest as he has clearly stated.
ReplyDeleteThe issue that the rest of us have is when the MLM'er's "claim" that they make so much and we, being the realistic, ethical and practical ones, not living in a dream world of diamonds and cocaine white bentley's (chuckle, chuckle-no fair John, that's my favorite word ;-) ....our issue is that we know better!! Unless you are all "The Coach" or 2nd tier down on the pyramid, there is no way you should be proud and holding your heads high because you're basically selling a dream to others who are throwing their life savings away. It's really all very sad because people want to get rich quick!! Who doesn't want to live a life of leisure? I wouldn't mind, but at who's expense?? I also value my friends and family. Believe me, I have been involved in MLM before and I have never regretted it so much in my life. My family and friends are worth so much more to me than the almighty dollar!!
The YTBs are showing their lunacy in droves. It's pathetic how much cheerleading they do. Pathetic. These are the same morons wearing the t-shirts around at the travel shows.
ReplyDelete"you're basically selling a dream to others who are throwing their life savings away."
ReplyDeleteIf $500 is your "life savings", you need to take a serious look at your financial picture.
How sad...
If $500 is your "life savings", you need to take a serious look at your financial picture.
ReplyDeleteHow sad...
But if that's all "they" have, then you're right, that is sad, but even more sad when they invest into a scam, one which simply pays someone else's credit cards or house payments. They call that "easy money" but in my world, I call it "dirty money". I don't like to be around people who gloat to try and make money either. Oh this subject could turn so very political, but I won't go there.
Awww... struggling wth your bills, are you?
ReplyDeleteDirty money??? Nobody's getting killed over it... except the B&M travel agencies that is. (notice I said agencies... not agents).
Hey, if John didn't make a bogus statement that YTB people are losing money, then I wouldn't have had to post my income and what it has done for me. Don't blame me for what started, and don't blame me because I make more money than you could dream of. You know, this opportunity is open... even for you. I know a lot fo B&M travel agents who joined YTB and are glad they did.
There are several posts where Proud to be YTB claimed to have done $63,000 in sales. Now she is claiming to have made $63,000 in commissions. So which one is it??
ReplyDeleteCan you get your story straight please?
If you were really earning what you say you are, you wouldn't have time to be posting on John's blog.
Show me where I said $63,000 in sales. I always said $63,000 in commissions. If i only did $63,000 in sales, that would be sad... very sad.
ReplyDeleteProud---look at the YTB financial statement for the last nine months and please explain this to me.
ReplyDeleteI will take this to the lowest common denominator for you.
For the first 9 months of the year...
TOTAL income for YTB from the reps and RTAs (sales and monthly fees, training materiela and travel commission) = $93,326,589
Almost $100M.
TOTAL expenses TO the RTAs AND the Reps (Marketing commissions and travel commissions) was $64,768,795.
So, over 9 months, all of the independent people associated with YTB (Reps and RTAs) have paid YTB $93M for this business opportunity. And their return was $64M
Here, let me do the math for you... The Reps and RTAs as a whole (and you are the exception we all know and have heard incessantly) LOST $29,557,794 in 9 months. Now YTB as a company was profitable of course.
Until the payout exceeds the investment, there is no profit.
http://biz.yahoo.com/e/071114/ytbla.pk10qsb.html
I've got all the time in the world! BTW... there is an amazing feature on a laptop. It's called WINDOWS VISTA! I can tab pages, and switch between screens... LOL!!! Besides, i don't spend all day here. i'm usually either here early in the morning... or late at night. During the day, I'm working with clients and getting new clients.
ReplyDeleteI'm making profit john... ME!!! also, there are RTAs and REPs who haven't done that much yet... but they will get there. Remember... there are new people joining every day. each person moves at their own pace. this is why those numbers you are showing really don't mean much. the numbers that do matter to me are the ones in my bank account.
ReplyDeleteSo, over 9 months, all of the independent people associated with YTB (Reps and RTAs) have paid YTB $93M for this business opportunity. And their return was $64M
ReplyDeleteWhat about your own "Selective Reading" John?
1. Reps do not pay a dime to participate in our company, only RTA’s.
2. YTB's Q3 financial statement clearly state that RTA’s paid $ 69,031,218 for the opportunity to be a Travel Agent with YTB. YTB in turn paid out $64,678,615. ($55M in Rep commissions and $9M for Travel.)
3. I might concede an additional $10M RTA’s paid for Training, but the $14M in Travel Commissions earned came from suppliers, not our own RTA’s.
PLEASE learn how to read the financial statements and what all this means. With all your focus on YTB’s financials, it’s clear you don’t know how to read financial statements.
Wow! Great reply!
ReplyDeleteI know that Reps do not pay to play but they do pay for marketing materials and so forth.
ReplyDeleteI said that together, a group of people that are not EMPLOYED by YTB forked over $93M. That same group of people received $64M back.
So that looks like a group of people gave $28M to YTB for nothing in return.
I can read fine thank you!
Let's see...
ReplyDeleteOnline travel stores and monthly fees $69,031,218
Training programs and marketing materials $10,364,547
Oh...I get it...travel commissions paid are also paid by RTA's as well? LOL!
Sure you can read...you wanna tell us you can add too? LOL!
You've been all over these numbers for months and you still have no idea what they mean do you?
Give it a rest or get an education.
I am well aware that the commissions are paid by the vendors.
ReplyDeleteLook at the financials
http://biz.yahoo.com/e/071114/ytbla.pk10qsb.html
Do you agree, that combined, the Reps and RTAs somehow gave YTB the following amounts over the past 9 months?
$69,031,218 for online travel stores and monthly fees
$10,364,547 for training programs and marketing materials
Can we agree on this? Yes or No?
Now, what did YTB pay in commissions to this same group of people that includes Reps and RTAs?
$55,370,759 in marketing commissions. This is for the Reps
$9,398,036 in travel commissions. This is for the RTAs
Can we agree on this? Yes or No?
So corporately, YTB had income from these sources (and by the way my other post did include income from all sources) of $79,395,765. On this income, they had to pay out in commissions $64,768,795. This is a VERY good thing for YTB corporate--maybe even for those who hold a lot of stock or earn ridiculous salaries.
But is it a good thing for the Reps and RTAs as a whole? They are sold a bill of goods to join a company and they can make unlimited income. They are shown the wealth of a select few (Directors) in the company to back up that suggestion. Together they realize that if they invest their money, they will get a return on it. Why? Well because there is a Bill of Rights and because the company is publicly traded and because the leadership are Christian people. (Or so I have been told) So, as a group, why is it that they are paying $79M into the program and getting $64M out of it? That is a -18.5% ROI.
I can take my money and earn +2.5% at any bank on any street corner. If I invest it in some decent mutual funds, I might make +8%. If I am aggressive and know what I am doing, I might be able to earn +12% or +15% on certain investments. But it takes a special kind of investor to lose 18.5%. At one point, the change machines at JFK charged a fee for making change for you. For each dollar you received 90 cents. Compared to the YTB numbers above, that was a GOOD DEAL!
Ask the bank to break a $100 bill for you. What would you say if they handed you back $81.50? Do you just take it? Maybe you accept it once or twice. But time and time again?
There were two non-rhetorical questions posed here. I would appreciate an answer on them both. Are my numbers correct for the income? Are my numbers correct for the commission payment? This is according to the SEC filing (not your back office)cited above. Two simple questions. Not in need of a lot of commentary...yes or no.
Kind of like those Coin Star Machines? God I hate those.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, probably off topic, but I was looking at the "gear" page and noticed this line: "You cannot buy a degree from a University, why would you think you can buy your way into an industry?"
I used to think the same thing, and then I met Jennifer, who had a father that was loaded. She was a chemistry/biology major, even though I'm sure she couldn't spell either. I'm pretty sure money can buy anyhting, even a way into an industry.
I just wanted to repeat that I'm not any side, just acting as a pot-stirrer.
Dear Proud to be YTB.
ReplyDeleteThis is a copy of your post from the "for the math challenged" thread.
BTW... to date, my total travel SALES (not commissions) tally up to 67,483.71. This doesn't include the 14 cabin cruise I'm working on for my neighbor.
Now you are claiming that you never said it, and that you have made $63,000 in commissions. Hmmm.
The question that I asked, that I never received a reply for was " if you have only done $63,000 in sales, and you have had to give 40% of your commissions to the mother ship, this means that you are earning below poverty level. So, what is it that you are so proud of?"
I believe this is a valid question.
I can't help but notice how many crazed YTBers will post all kinds of stuff about how much the coorporate office makes, but are you really making enough to live on? And if you are really able to sell travel, why on earth would you give up a precentage of your commissions and align yourself with a company with such questionable ethics? Have you figured out how much money you lost by working with YTB??
If John Freynay were the only person in the industry to make an issue of this, I would understand your hostility. But the FACT is that there are several big, well respected companies and organizations who also don't agree with what the travel mlms are doing. I can't understand why your hostilities are directed towards John and traditional travel agents, rather that the people at YTB who promised you the moon.
Ah, ok. I did mean sales... not commissions. Sorry I typed commissions in the other posts. I will proclaim that this is my correction.
ReplyDeleteDear Proud to be...
ReplyDeleteThanks for correcting your error.
Usually I think it's tacky to ask someone how much they make, but since you brought it up, let's review.
If you did $63,000 in sales, I would assume at least part of that is air. But, for the sake of keeping it simple, let's say you made 10% on the whole sales amount. That would leave you with $6300.00 in commissions. Then if you give 40% of that to YTB, that would leave you with $3780.00. Over the six months that you stated you made these earnings, that comes out to $630.00 per month. If you maintained that average over the course of the year, that would give you less than $8000 in income for the entire year. This means you could have your YTB business, and collect food stamps all at the same time!
So I gotta ask... why are you so Proud to be YTB?? Even if you live in the nicest cardboard box imaginable, you cannot survive on $630 per month can you?
I'm not trying to trash you- I just don't understand what the big deal is. You are earning less than you would be if you had a part time job bagging groceries, but you're all over this blog making fun of traditional agents, and making wild claims about your income. It doesn't matter how much YTB headquarters is making if you personally can't make a living at it.
With the travel I booked for people, and the travel my downline has booked for people, I have made just over $63,000.00 for the year!
ReplyDeleteI also posted other figures that explains how I make over $30,000.00 a month through the marketing aspect as a LEVEL 1 DIRECTOR!!!
Ok so in one post you claim to make $30,000 per month. Then in another one you claim to have made $63,000 for the year. So, which is it??
If I could only sell 63,000 in travel, and most of that came from a down line, I sure wouldnt be so proud. I'd be broke!
ReplyDeleteJohn:
ReplyDeleteYou're missing a piece of the financial picture. This relates to the Rep (marketing) side of the business: Some of the income received each quarter carries over to the next, and some the next after that, etc. Remember the bonus structure of YTB? $1000 commission bonus every time your Power team grows by six RTAs, and $10,000 when it reaches 100? There is no time limit on that, and everyone advances at their own pace. Half the people in YTB have been in for less than a year. So until that commission is earned by a Rep, it carries over and appears as income to YTB.
So then where is the $75M coming from that YTB will pay this "half"? Assuming about 150K people in the program and half will get it next year, that is $75M in $1000 bonuses and who knows how much in $10,000 bonuses?
ReplyDeleteBut wasn't it already discussed that very few earn that $1000 bonus (relative tot he number of people in the program) and fewerr still the $10K?
And regardless, the money paidf into the program byu Reps and RTAs does not even come close to what was paid out to them. I am with John on his money figures
935 $1000 bonuses were paid Nov 2 - Nov 22
ReplyDelete935 $1000 bonuses were paid! WOW! How many $10,000 ones were paid? I am guessing a lot less.
ReplyDeleteSo, if I am to get this correctly, if you follow the plan, work hard, sell travel and rent websites, you will be able to be among the .6% of people in the program to earn a bonus. Yes, that is a period before the 6---point 6 percent. Slightly over one half of one percent.
that's 935 in a 20 day period. that is not .6%.
ReplyDeleteMultiply that out, and it is over 17,000 for the year.
ReplyDeleteExplain the voodoo math for me please. What is 17,000 a year? 17,000 people? OK so 11% of the people earn a bonus? That means that 89% don't!
ReplyDeleteIf 935 people of 150,000 earned a $1000 bonus, that is .6% Get a calculator.
Please stop with unsubstantiated random numbers. They make my head spin!
Two simple questions. Not in need of a lot of commentary...yes or no.
ReplyDeleteNo.
Since there is no need for commentary, I would assume you'll be able to figure out on your own where you've missed the boat again.
Good Grief...
And, YTB doesn't get 40% of my commissions. I was receiving 60% of theirs... but when I became a Power Team Leader (PTL) that 60% became 70%.
ReplyDeleteNow that too is cleared up... without any attacks.
Simplified even more...
ReplyDeleteFor every $100 that is paid in commissions to YTB from the vendors, I receive 60% (plus an additional 10% override ever since I was a Power Team Leader... so for every $100 paid, I receive $70).
I did my share of recruiting, and am totally focused on the travel side of the business for it has become lucrative for me. I don't go around looking for prospects anymore. My down-line does that, and when they do, I help them out. That's part of being a Director in the marketing side. Now, if someone comes up to me and asks me how I got into this business and how they too can join, I don't turn them away saying that I don't 'recruit". I will show them the business and let them decide whether they want to join or not.
When I go out to work my business, I have one thing on my mind, and that is to create more clients... especially ones who like to go on cruises because that's where the money is. I also cater to others. If someone is into sports, i point out to them that they can get their game tickets from my website as well. the same goes for shows, concerts, theme parks... etc.
Because I am YTB, you have a painted image of me in your head. Well, now i am painting you a different picture... one that shows you what I am all about with this company.
Yes, I make a lot of mony from having a team built below me.
Yes,I enjoy helping people set up their vacations (personally whenever possible). I always tell them that I would like to work with them.
What he is trying to say is that in 1 year's time, 17,000 people have received $1,000 bonuses. Again, the bonuses are handed out according to every 6 that comes into your down-line. If people haven't received their bonus, it's just because those people haven't reached that point yet. it's not YTB's fault. It's the fault of everyone who hasn't gotten their bonus. If someone does nothing, they get nothing, but if someone goes out and gets people who want to join, then they receive a bonus for their hard work. In turn, the upline should help their downline in any way possible to attract new people to the business. To clarify... personally, I no longer go out looking to "recruit". I go and build up my clientele. If someone in my downline has a "prospect", then I help them sign him/ her up. Nobody in my down-line is left to fen for themselves. I ven had a person in my down-line who was struggling to find people. He had 1 person... so I found him 2 more to sign under him. Of course, I set up a meeting so they would get to know each other in the process. Now this person who was struggling has 17 people in his downline. That's a far cry from 1. Because I helped this person, he was able to receive 2 $1,000.00 bonuses and is just 1 person away from getting a 3rd. He has also been getting people on his own ever since.
ReplyDelete