An interesting document was sent to me today that I wanted to share. It is the S-8 Filing by YTB on November 28, 2007 which for some reason received little fanfare and no press releases from the headquarters. Essentially, the document is the registration statement for the company and was prepared because they were offering their own securities to employees in a benefit program.
What I found interesting was that a lot of what is presented here was diametrically opposed to what was presented at my presentation last week. For instance, I always was under the impression that YTB was not out to compete against traditional travel agencies--who would have thought! Maybe someone ought to let 136,000 RTAs know the truth! I think that this document ought to be required reading for RTAs. I have to think that if I was interested in YTB or a travel MLM career, I would be running pretty fast after considering some of the risks that they acknowledge in this document. Items in parenthesis are my own comments.
- Our ongoing activities may require us to seek additional financing, which may not be obtainable or may be unduly onerous or dilutive.
- Our revenues are highly dependent on website hosting fees received from travel agents and agencies. Fees from hosting websites that we offer to home based representatives make up over 70% of our revenues.
- Adverse publicity associated with our products, services or network marketing program, or those of similar companies, could harm our financial condition and operating results.
- Our marketing program could be found not to be in compliance with current or newly adopted laws or regulations in one or more markets, which could prevent us from conducting our business of marketing online travel agencies in these markets and harm our financial condition and operating results.
- Since we cannot exert the same level of influence or control over our Reps and RTAs as we could were they our own employees, our Reps and RTAs could fail to comply with our policies and procedures, which could result in claims against us that could harm our financial condition and operating results.
- Adverse changes or interruptions in our relationships with travel suppliers could affect our access to travel offerings a reduce our revenues.
- We operate in a highly competitive market and we may not be able to compete effectively. (and listed as a primary competitor) other local, regional, national and international traditional travel agencies servicing leisure and business travelers.
- We may not protect our technology or other intellectual property effectively, which would allow competitors to duplicate our products. This could make it more difficult for us to compete with them.
- Evolving government regulation could impose taxes or other burdens on our business, which could increase our costs and decrease demand for our products.
- Our business is exposed to risks associated with online commerce security and credit card fraud.
- As a result of our operating history in online commerce and the variability that can be experienced by our franchise operations, we are unable to accurately forecast our revenues. (that explains the TW ranking and the Sail-A-Thon)
- We expect to experience significant fluctuations in our future operating results due to a variety of other factors, many of which are outside of our control. (including) governmental regulation.
- Liquidity on the Pink Sheets Electronic Quotation Service is limited and we may not be able to obtain listing of our Class A Common Stock on a more liquid market.
- Our Class A Common Stock has been thinly traded and the public market may provide little or no liquidity for holders of our Class A Common Stock. Purchasers of our Class A Common Stock may find it difficult to resell their shares at prices quoted in the market or at all.
- The exercise of options granted under our equity compensation plans could cause your ownership in our Company to diluted and may decrease the value of your investment .
- We do not expect to pay any dividends to the holders of our Common Stock for the foreseeable future.
.
Everyone fasten your seat and shoulder belts ... it will be interesting to see how the YTB apologists spin this!
ReplyDeleteI hope they apologize to their investors...issuing 40M more shares on top of the 100M already outstanding coupled with almost daily sell-offs from insiders is not going to help the stock price.
ReplyDeleteI had read earlier that they were looking to join AMEX or some other exchange and get off the Pink Sheets...but that does bring actual SEC oversight (like you hear about at the meetings). Keeping the price per share down keeps you on the Pinks and under the SEC radar for the most part.
JF . . . that's about as earthshaking as the newest Natilie Holloway investigation releases! Typical legal jargon. The type of disclaimers that MOST people put a check mark in and say "Yes, I agree . . ."
ReplyDeleteYes, a tornado could hit the building housing our server and transactions might be interrupted. YTB would not be liable for that. If people are into these types of postings, I have the insurance contract from my latest automobile insurance purchase . . . some of you might enjoy reading it!
In all fairness, while much of this is dire - and it really is - I believe that much of it is boilerplate as well - such as dangers to internet commerce and inability to protect intellectual property. I am sure that the same is posted in filings for all "dotcons". BUT what I find most interesting are the warnings that there may be legal problems with their "model" and that they can not be expected to "control" their Reps.....
ReplyDeleteLB--I disagree (and it is Natalee) Yes there is a lot of standard legal jargon in the document, but it is the unusual items I listed that would scare me away.
ReplyDeleteI have holdings in several stocks as well as some start ups which some would consider "risky", but I have never seen (and maybe it's because I would never invest in something like this) statements like:
Our marketing program could be found to not comply with laws
We cannot control our independent people and may be sued for their actions
Our business is exposed to credit card fraud
We do not expect to pay dividends
You may find it difficult or impossible to sell any stock you purchased because we are pink sheeted because of our failure to comply with SEC regulations
70% of our revenues are dependent on a product that is not our core product
We may not protect our technology or other intellectual property effectively
Come on now. This does not even raise the smallest red flag for you?
Yes, anyone who knows how the independent contractor status works, knows that it is difficult to exhibit too much control. The feds love to find companies exhibiting control over independent contractors and force them into withholding, etc . . .
ReplyDeleteYTB is VERY OPEN about all of their operations. I would love to know as much about private travel companies as what gets bantered around by everyone on this site about YTB. You keep looking for the "gotchas" . . . and, sorry, it's all out there and there are no other "bombshells" to be found. Am I (or have I ever) tried to recruit someone into YTB because of the stock price? NO. I do mention that we are publically traded and that means that we are going to be more transparent than private companies.
John, I think you are an good guy, but this entry will fizzle quickly. And, sorry, no need to "fasten your seatbelts" noflyzone . . .
Teh Agency I work for covers ALL ICs on their E&O insurance...
ReplyDeleteCTA in MD--I am not sure this is E&O insurance issues. Sounds like if a RTA or REP did something deliberately it could hurt the company as they have no control or even background info on any of their independents.
ReplyDeleteAnd if there was a criminal act, E&O woudl not cover ti
A lot of it is basic stuff that they have to say but I thought it was interesting that they have no contracts with any vendors. With RCL gone it looks like YTB is pretty much at the mercy of CCL as far as travel revenue. If they walk away...what's left?
ReplyDeleteAnd I thought FTC regs called for at least 70% of earnings for a MLM to be from sales of a product to not be considered a pyramid. How can they admit that over 70% of revenue is from their web site hosting "opportunity"?
"Teh Agency I work for covers ALL ICs on their E&O insurance..."
ReplyDeleteIf an IC is truly INDEPENDENT, they should be purchasing their own E&O insurance.
Having the agency purchase it for the IC's borders on treating them like employees - which can be a red flag to the IRS.
What people fail to realize is that when a company buys the E&O naming their IC's - they are covering the COMPANY's butt - not the IC's. The IC can still be personally liable for the complaint.
ReplyDeleteAlso - the per year policy is diluted by ALL named insureds. So with 136,000 RTA's out there - if only a small fraction of them cause payment of a claim they will deplete the policy post haste.
CTA in MD--I am not sure this is "E&O insurance issues. Sounds like if a RTA or REP did something deliberately it could hurt the company as they have no control or even background info on any of their independents.
ReplyDeleteAnd if there was a criminal act, E&O woudl not cover ti"
That would be true in terms of criminal act.
The Agency has a policy that covers actions of ICs - obviously they pay a little more for it..... I only know this because one of the Full Time employees recently converted to IC (is 65, got remarried, decided to work less) and she was struggling with tryng to buy E&O and they told her, "oh no - you are covered on our E&O".
John,
ReplyDeleteThere are many companies that "do not expect to pay dividends." I sure wouldn't hold that against them. The liquidity statement will be found in the registration of nearly every company traded on the Pink Sheets. That is reason enough to avoid nearly everything that trades that way. I know I've learned my lessons the hard way about the Pink Sheets.
The statements that admit that 70% of their revenue comes from hosting fees is a lot more revealing than the others. It admits what many of us have been saying about the revenue stream all along. The business is not about selling travel, it is about selling websites.
I know a lot is boilerplate stuff. But the fact is that there are a lot of revealing insights...the revenue sources, the claim that they compete against traditional (and they used that word) travel agencies, etc.
ReplyDeleteI agree some of the statements are probably gibberish and doesn't hold a lot of weight...but...
ReplyDeleteOur revenues are highly dependent on website hosting fees received from travel agents and agencies. Fees from hosting websites that we offer to home based representatives make up over 70% of our revenues.
In a nutshell folks, YTB HQ admits in writing that they rely HEAVILY on selling the websites and the monthly fees they generate. 70% of their income is derived from these fees, not from travel sales.
As for the claim that they cannot control their REPs/RTAs, maybe they need to pare back on the # of RTAs/REPs they have ... most host agencies have no problem in this area (they can monitor their ICs and can drop them rather quickly if warranted). Until YTB takes responsibility for monitorig their REPs/RTAs, I seriously doubt they will get reinstated by RCCL or IATA/IATAN.
All of this just solidifies that YTB is only in it to sell websites and make a quick buck. This is exactly what alot of us have been saying for awhile now.
ReplyDeleteIt will be fun to see how the YTB cheerleaders try to spin this one!!!
What about those Host Agencies who rely on 90%- 100% hosting and monthly fees? Nexion for example pays out 90-100% commission but still have initial setup and monthly fees like YTB.
ReplyDeleteHow do you think Nexion sustains itself in the midst of a large conglomerate like Sabre Holdings when they pay out 90-100% of the travel revenue?
Yet, nobody dares question the validity of a Host Agency like this or that it can sustain itself?
Nexion is not an MLM model. That's the difference.
ReplyDelete"What about those Host Agencies who rely on 90%- 100% hosting and monthly fees? Nexion for example pays out 90-100% commission but still have initial setup and monthly fees like YTB."
ReplyDeleteThey actually sell travel and service customers NOT sell a website. You can spin all you want that is the reality. YTB makes its money off of selling websites.
"I would be running pretty fast after considering some of the risks that they acknowledge in this document."
ReplyDeleteTRAVEL INSURANCE DISCLOSURE
We will not pay for cancelled travel and accommodation expenses or your travel agent’s cancellation fee if your journey is cancelled because:
✘ you change your mind or a reason for your journey changes
✘ of your financial circumstances,
✘ of the refusal, failure or inability of any person, company or organisation, (including
but not limited to any airline, other transportation provider, hotel, car rental agency, tour or cruise operator, travel wholesaler, travel agent, booking agent or other agent for travel or tourism related services, facilities or accommodation), to provide services, by reason of their own financial failure or the financial failure of any person, company or organisation with whom or with which they deal,
✘ a special person dies, and you were aware before we issued this policy to you that this was likely to occur during the period of
insurance, you or a special person dies, or suffers injury or illness because of a preexisting medical condition, unless we have agreed in writing to cover you for that preexisting medical condition,
✘ of the death, illness or injury of someone other than you or a special person,
✘ of strikes, riots, civil commotion – if a warning
was given before you took out this insurance that these events would be likely to occur during the period of insurance,
✘ of transport or traffic delays,
✘ a government prohibits travel to your destination,
✘ the travel agent is at fault,
✘ there were not enough people to go on the group travel or tour, orWhen we will not pay
✘ you or a special person suffers an injury or illness that is not serious. By “serious” (in the context of a traveller) we
mean an injury or illness that:
▼ requires treatment by a legally qualified medical practitioner, and
▼ results in that medical practitioner certifying in writing that you or the special person are unable to start or continue your journey.
We also will not pay for any other loss you incur as a result of your cancellation unless we say that
we do in this policy.
For example, we will not pay for your loss of enjoyment of a holiday.
✘ We will not pay your travel agent’s cancellation fee more
than $500 or more than 10% of the cost ofthe cancelled journey or more than the actual fee charged, whichever is less. We will apply an excess of $75 to any claim
under this section.
NExion and other franchise/consortia earn money off of their monthly fees which can vary within the same host (Joystar). They also earn money from the suppliers in terms of advertising support and overrides. They also make money selling their ancillary programs to their members.
ReplyDeleteYou may say that is just what YTB does, but it is not.
Nexion or any other host does NOT sell travel. Their members sell travel. Therefore they are a membership organization not a travel agency.
YTB is selling websites and acting as a travel agency. The RTAs are dependent on YTB paying them and not the vendors directly. Hence since YTB is not a membership company but an agency, the 70% of revenues from memberships is scary.
If I was a public company and had a storefront selling travel yet reported that 70% of my revenue came from something else....you can bet someone wouold take a look at me for sure!
YTB does not just sell websites...I see they have over $2M worth of SFH magazines and over $1M in Fun & Travel listed in inventory for sale.
ReplyDelete"If I was a public company and had a storefront selling travel yet reported that 70% of my revenue came from something else....you can bet someone would take a look at me for sure!"
ReplyDeleteThat’s just it John…
YTB is entering its 8th year in business. We’ve been public for 4 years now and our financials have been open for review and discussion all this time.
Yet, even in the face of Attorney Generals, (Rhode Island and Florida to name two that I know of) the FTC, the SEC who have been forwarded this information from those who don’t understand that it doesn’t cost anyone a single dime to “participate” in our Networking Model (AKA: Reps) we still have those who don’t understand (or ignore) why that’s important and how it relates to what actually constitutes an illegal pyramid.
In addition, both State and Federal Agencies understand that Travel Commissions and Networking Commissions do not show up in the same SEC filings. Travel booked by new RTA’s are not paid until the Travel is paid in full by our suppliers. YTB does not pay RTA’s until the travel has been consumed. There is a substantial delay between what new RTA’s book and when they are paid.
Not one Government Agency who has looked at or investigated the YTB Business Model has come forward to state or file suite that what we are doing is wrong or illegal after all this time. I’ve been with YTB for 3 years now and I can assure you that you’re not the first to divulge or reveal this information.
By the way…have you gotten any response back from Rhode Island? I notice we have some 250 new RTA’s in Rhode Island since you reported that the AG there shut us down?
John said, " I would be running pretty fast after considering some of the risks that they acknowledge in this document."
ReplyDeleteROYAL CARIBBEAN CRUISES LTD.
FORM 10-K SEC FILING
1. We may lose business to competitors throughout the vacation market.
2. Overcapacity within the cruise vacation industry, a reduction in demand or geo-political and economic uncertainties could have a negative impact on revenues, result in impairment of assets and may adversely affect profitability.
3. Fears of terrorist attacks, war and other hostilities and the spread of contagious diseases could have a negative impact on our profitability.
4. Incidents or adverse publicity concerning the cruise vacation industry or unusual weather conditions could affect our reputation and harm our future sales and profitability.
5. Environmental, health and safety, financial responsibility and other maritime regulations could affect operations and increase operating costs.
6. We may not be able to obtain financing on terms that are favorable or consistent with our expectations.
7. Conducting business internationally may result in increased costs and other risks.
8. Ship construction delays or mechanical faults may result in cancellation of cruises and unscheduled drydocks and repairs.
9. Our operating costs and taxes could increase due to market forces and economic or political factors beyond our control.
10. Unavailability of ports of call may adversely affect our profits.
11. A change in our tax status under the United States Internal Revenue Code may have adverse effects on our income.
12. We are controlled by principal shareholders that have the power to determine our policies, management and actions requiring shareholder approval.
13. The holders of our common stock may experience a decrease in the value of their equity interest as a result of the sale of currently restricted shares of our common stock into the public market.
14. We are not a United States corporation and our shareholders may be subject to the uncertainties of a foreign legal system in protecting their interests.
This list should NOT be considered a complete statement of all potential risks or uncertainties.
Whose insane travel insurance is that and why in the world would ANYONE sell that?! That looks nothing like the policies I offer clients!
ReplyDeleteBut aside from that, we were discussing E&O insurance - NOT Travel Insurance.
I said that RI was investigating and I have not heard back.
ReplyDeleteTo anonymous that posted the RCI SEC filing...slide it up side to side with YTB. I missed the point where RCI said you will likely not be able to sell any stock. The part where they said that 70% of their revenue came from toaster ovens, and I also missed the part where they said they were in direct competition with McDonalds.
I have said a lot of it is boilerplate, but a lot of the YTB stuff is NOT
But aside from that, we were discussing E&O insurance - NOT Travel Insurance.
ReplyDeleteUhm, what's the difference? We were told we were covered.
E&O covers the business for Errors and Ommissions. It is not travel insurance. It in no way covers your client, it covers you. It is an insurance available (in fact required in most cases for a Business License in all States) to just about every industry. Too bad you are that ignorant of business.
ReplyDeleteBut again, whose insane travel insurance policy is THAT which was posted and WHY ON GOD'S EARTH would anyone sell that crap?
The most troubling here is the inability to "control" their RTAs. That is the biggest bunch of crap. You lay out rules and you make it clear (and you enforce them) that certain behaviors get you canned - contract terminated. End of story. BUT YTB doesn't want to do that as it might mean interrupted the revenue stream from these idiot (yes majority not minority) RTAs they have out there.
ReplyDelete"WE WERE TOLD we were covered."
ReplyDeleteDo you believe everything you are told?
I am not ignorant, I am learnign and taking the trainings. I was at Funshine so I am on my way.
ReplyDeleteBut I was told that the insurance aspect was all covered from the home office. So are my clients covered or not? And it is all done online so there is no real need for Errrors insurance since the clients all do it themselves
In the meantime RCL paid dividends on the last quarter - the latest reported - and that was the 59th quarter in a row.
ReplyDeleteDoes YTB EVER anticipate paying dividends? No and they even warn that they are unlikely to.
In the meantime RCL's stock has been climbing this week.
Has YTB's? No, it is very close to dipping below $1.
I doubt YTB will pay dividends. Their stock is crap, and getting crappier every day. While people continue to lose money the execs sold off their stock to make a quick buck. The only losers are the ones who bought into this company. As the saying goes..."If its to good to be true, it probably is". That quote fits perfectly into YTBs "business" opportunity.
ReplyDeleteNo anonymous, your clients are NOT covered. Errors and Omissions insurance covers the agency/agent. Travel insurance covers the client. This is a prime example of why us traditionalist have issues with the YTB model. The YTBer's have no basic knowledge of the industry, yet you're out there representing yourself as a travel agent.
ReplyDeleteYou also state why would you need E&O, since the clients are doing it all themselves. Well, if the clients are doing it themselves, then why are you calling yourself a travel agent, because you're obviously not doing the work of one. If you're not doing the work of one, why should you get the commissions and perks?
"But I was told that the insurance aspect was all covered from the home office. So are my clients covered or not? And it is all done online so there is no real need for Errrors insurance since the clients all do it themselves"
ReplyDeleteYou are "ignorant" as in, you are unaware and this question STILL indicates that you are ignorant (notice I did not call you "stupid" - they are two different words that actually can have different meanings).
So back to the question at hand - I would guess, but you will have to ask this question of your "headquarters" - that they are saying that you are covered on their E&O - that covers you for errors or ommissions you may make. IT DOES NOT COVER your client for cancellation, illness, emergency medical evacuation, etc. all the things your clients SHOULD be covered for.... you have to sell them a policy for them to be covered...
And again, can you please indicate what Vendor's horrible insurance policy that is that was posted above?
"But I was told that the insurance aspect was all covered from the home office. So are my clients covered or not? And it is all done online so there is no real need for Errrors insurance since the clients all do it themselves"
ReplyDeleteHoo boy! ...if they told you it was safe to jump off the cliff.....???
So if something goes wrong when a customer books on your website and they sue you along with YTB, do you have the thousands of dollars necessary to pay your lawyers?
Moreover, what assurance do you have that your butt is not hanging out when the programmers of your website make an error. Are you formally indemnified in writing against this?
It's your responsibility to know if your clients, and yourself, are covered for everything which can go wrong. You are playing in The Big Show now ... you had better know what you are doing or risk ruin.
John said, "...the S-8 Filing by YTB on November 28, 2007 which for some reason received little fanfare and no press releases from the headquarters."
ReplyDeleteYes, and it also was interesting to note the RCCL 10-K filing was low key like YTB's S-8. "Little fanfare and no press releases from (RCCL) headquarters."
John, I'm lmao!! You always strain to find something shocking about YTB. You are nothing more then a mere troll and a contemptuous guttersnipe!
Anonymous--who died and made you Bill O'Reilly?
ReplyDeleteMy comment about the little fanfare was based on the past releases that YTB puts out.
1. We sold 6000 cruises
2. We are selling packages to China
3. We made a profit
4. We think we are going to finish the year strong
5. Kim is called influential
6. YTB self reports numbers and is proclaimed #35
Seems that the only thing that does NOT get released from YTB is the bathroom schedules and any news that might put someone in a position to question the program.
Wait a minute - I just looked at that "insurance" again and on further thought it actually looks like a clause - not the insurance - apparently, all it is saying is we will not cover you Travel Agent's FEES for any of these reasons - which is really ANY reason. that's kindof funny as the insurance I sell DOES cover fees ...
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of travel insurance....
ReplyDeleteOne of our TTA's in action!
Click On This
I just called to HQ to get a clarification and if there is ANY issue that is caused by an RTA, the agents in HQ, or the booking process, we are completely covered. No worries there.
ReplyDeleteThere is additional insurance people can take out for their trip and this is offered right on our website and they select it themselves.
They said that as long as someone books through the website (either my customer or me as a RTA) there is no need to worry because the insurance will take care of it.
And relaly when you think about it, all of the travel is given to YTB by the vendors so the priocing is right, and if a customer picks the wrong thing that is their problem. It is not like the so called "real" travel agents where they are muddling thru the whole process--this is much more accurate and safe from a insurance angel
I have a beautiful piece of real estate that you may be interested in purchasing in Florida...and my HQ says there is nothing wrong with it at all...I'll give you a great price!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous--good luck with that. I wish you all the best.
ReplyDeleteBut seriously, if you are going to think you are in business, I suggest you begin to take it a little more seriously.
YTB RULES TTAS SUCK!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteThat's adult. Many will flock to sign up with such a well spoken person.
ReplyDeleteEddie said...
ReplyDelete"That's adult. Many will flock to sign up with such a well spoken person."
Eddie, pay no attention to the idiot. Please don't assume the anon is a YTB'er either. It could be someone who want's to "flame" and rouse responces from non-YTB'rs such as yourself.
Thanks!
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI just called to HQ to get a clarification and if there is ANY issue that is caused by an RTA, the agents in HQ, or the booking process, we are completely covered. No worries there.
There is additional insurance people can take out for their trip and this is offered right on our website and they select it themselves.
They said that as long as someone books through the website (either my customer or me as a RTA) there is no need to worry because the insurance will take care of it.
And relaly when you think about it, all of the travel is given to YTB by the vendors so the priocing is right, and if a customer picks the wrong thing that is their problem. It is not like the so called "real" travel agents where they are muddling thru the whole process--this is much more accurate and safe from a insurance angel
December 21, 2007 3:40 PM
OMG, this is really a person that I want as my advocate in anything.
What this particular anonymous person doesn't get is that part of a travel agents job is is to act as the clients advocate in case of any problems that might arise. This is exactly the type of person that us traditionalist are fighting against. They don't care about helping the client, as evidenced by their above statements.
Even when the client does do it themselves, as on the YTB point and click sites, there can still be problems that arise. Mistakes can be made. When a client uses a traditionalist website, and a mistake is make, the traditional agent is there to help the client correct the error. This person obviously doesn't care, and is willing to leave the client in the wind to flap. This is very evidently someone who signed up with YTB only for the perks that come with being a travel agent, and not to actually be one. No wonder they are using the "anonymous" button when they post on here. They're too afraid to post their real name. They're probably the same person that made the following posting, multiple times:
Anonymous said...
YTB RULES TTAS SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
December 21, 2007 3:54 PM
Well, in this case, I would have to say the opposite is true, because a traditional agent cares about the client!
True--anonymity works both ways.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was a little temper tantrum. If I scream and yell people will believe what I say is true. Uh no. Sadly pathetic really. Just the kind of people we all want to work with, n'est pas?
ReplyDeleteSince the sentiment was repeated ten times, I am going to delete 9 of them and just leave the one.
ReplyDeleteTo the YTBers out there, this is NOT censoring. Just cleaning up.
ibtravel said, a long time ago, "John, I think you are a good guy, but this entry will fizzle quickly."
ReplyDeleteJohn, unfortunately IB was right. The SEC stuff quickly fizzled and turned into a discussion about E&O and travel insurance. I some what disappointed and wonder if we all could get back to John's original topic?
John -
ReplyDeleteI wish you'd leave it so the Vendors will see it.
It changed and fizzled, because of the YTBers trying to change the topic. Its always deflect this or that and not respond to the questions. This happens everytime. If you can't face the truth, why do you twist and move away. That happens when people are faced with the truth and can't get it through their sick skulls. "If it happened, I'll just ignore it and it will go away".
ReplyDeleteTo the vendors that want to see it, it was the same message repeated over and over again. The original content is above the deleted messages. No need to waste the real estate!
ReplyDeleteYes, I agree, that the comments got off topic, but as YTBSCAM said, it is typical. When one has no defense you change the subject and try to move on.
Completely nauseated by the "if they book it wrong thats their problem". That is the WHOLE PROBLEM. YTBers don't seem to give a rats a$$ about the client..so basically your a website..so basically you should get NO PERKS from this industry. Its people like you that are giving this industry the black eye. Wether my client booked it wrong, or I did, we go above and beyond to fix the problem..and not by sending them to the TRAVEL AGENT ONLY PHONE LINES for vendors. Get off your lazy asses and fix the problem yourself.
ReplyDeleteI am the one who said that the topic will fizzle. I did not change the subject. The fact is this . . . there is no news here and the SEC release was a typical disclaimer.
ReplyDeleteAnd YTBscam, you are certain to be one of the typical bottom-feeders that posts items on the net using YTB's name . . . only to sell your latest "deal". You have absolutely no credibility on his subject at all. I've been an RTA for going on 5 years. I work with over 500 RTAs and, yes, we do sell travel and we do recruit new RTAs. And they like their businesses and happily pay their $49.95 each and every month.
John said, "Yes, I agree, that the comments got off topic, but as YTBSCAM said, it is typical. When one has no defense you change the subject and try to move on."
ReplyDeleteWell, I suggest you and that bone head BSCAM go back a few post's to see who changed the subject to E&O insurance. And the award goes to...........................................................................
December 21, 2007 10:16 AM
"CTA in MD said...
Teh Agency I work for covers ALL ICs on their E&O insurance..."
You guys are really halarious. Turns out it was one of JF's minions who changed the subject. You guys are really on top of things! lol!
Travellisa,
ReplyDeleteNope I'm not out there selling any kind of scam. I'm sure your RTAs are happily paying their 49.95 a month. There is a sucker born everyday...and you sound upbeat. Of COURSE you do, your the one stealing the money and being paid by it.
Ummm I never said anything about you, might want to read up. I do not work for YTB (thank god) I think maybe your answering lbtravel?
ReplyDeleteOver 70% of YTB income is paid by the YTBers in fees, plus they have millions in their magazine business...so of the less than 30% of income from travel if we subtract what YTBers sell to themselves...and subtract what the heavy hitter YTB agents who are here blogging all day sell...that leaves a whole lot of YTBers who aren't selling a whole lot of anything.
ReplyDeleteIn the long run what will probably happen is YTB becomes the Amway of travel. Amway has been around a long time but I don't think they'll be putting Proctor & Gamble out of business. YTB seems to be getting around the pyramid laws with their different divisions and money is being made. Not from travel...but when you tell recruits to pay $500 and get 6 more people in and you'll get $1000...you'll always find recruits.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing that could really hurt is CCL walking away. That would leave so little travel income it would be hard to pitch. I think that's probably why YTB is getting into flowers and cars, etc. If things go bad with travel they'll be selling themselves as the next Amazon and the pyramid continues....
Or, the industry goes net!
ReplyDeleteThe subject may have inadvertantly gotten off track, but it proved our point, that there are people out there in YTB that are uneducated (don't know the difference between E&O and travel insurance), don't care, and don't care about the client, or taking care of the client, and are calling themselves travel agents, when they truly are not, and expecting the same compensation and perks of REAL agents!
ReplyDeleteNo, everything booked on the 'net might go net. As it is there's no advantage to booking thru YTB...they have the same prices as everyplace else online. And service?...I don't want to hear it all again...but what they say themselves is that your friends and family will book thru someone they know instead of any other website. Maybe...unless your friends and family want knowledge, experience and service...at the same or a better price. That's where a real travel agent has it all over YTB....
ReplyDeleteTravelLisa said...
ReplyDeleteUmmm I never said anything about you, might want to read up. I do not work for YTB (thank god) I think maybe your answering lbtravel?
TL, what did you expect from a bone head?
There are so many posts on here that just scream of YTB's lack of training! Did someone actually throw down the $495, consider themselves a business owner, and not have a clue about what kind of insurance they needed to protect themselves? EEEK!
ReplyDeleteMost host agencies only carry about a million dollars worth of coverage for everyone. SO if one person really screws up that means the other 100,000 rats are out in the cold.
And yes even if someone books through your site you need to be able to offer them travel insurance. You are doing them a diservice by not having it. Oh wait, you don't have any service at YTB. Never mind.
I would say none of you traditional travel agents should worry about the YTB reps and any insurance issues. We are doing just fine.
ReplyDeleteWe appreciate your concern, but with 136,000 RTA's and Reps, 7 years in the business, we have not had any problems that your are so worried about. Thank you!
You are incorrect. You may have been in business that long but you have accumulated nearly 100,000 untrained people in less than a year. THAT is frightening.
ReplyDeleteAt 150,000 I would venture to say that you have eclipsed the number of TAs that were working in B&M shops in the heyday. Again, these folks had years and decades of training. What have you provided? A RTA card, access to FAMS and discounts, and some vendor supplied product reviews. To your credit, you realized it is a problem and are implementing some minimal requirments in January--but that does not apply to the 150,000 that arre already there!
You have developed a very scary army of people that you are unleashing on the public.
There ARE a lot of untrained YTBers but at least they don't sell that much travel...and we have yet to see numbers on how much is simply sold to themselves. THAT'S the number that would really gall me if I was a supplier.
ReplyDeleteAnd the thing with referral marketing is it cuts both ways...once one of your family or friends has a problem after booking through YTB or even isn't happy that they didn't get as good a deal as going through another online site you can count on them letting everyone else know.
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete"would say none of you traditional travel agents should worry about the YTB reps and any insurance issues. We are doing just fine.
We appreciate your concern, but with 136,000 RTA's and Reps, 7 years in the business, we have not had any problems that your are so worried about. Thank you!"
With 136,000 untrained and uneducated RTA's and Reps it is only a matter of time before one of them screws up and YTB gets sued big time! Then the whole house of cards will come tumbling down. All it takes is 1! And, if you think this will not happen you are seriously deluded.
YTBscam . . . Not buying your claim that you are not selling some other "deal". The "suckers" that I'm "stealing" from include 6 CPAs, 5 Bank Managers, 9 Physicians or Chiropractors, 4 Airline Pilots including 2 747 Pilots and a host of others from various backgrounds. They have a lot more going on in their lives than your trying to be an authority on something you are obviously ignorant about.
ReplyDeletemb . . . YTB recently had a "major" problem happen when an RTA went bad and took off with the money from travelers in the Baltimore area. JF covered it in detail. The part not emphasized is
the fact that YTB is refunding the proceeds (over $15,000) to the customers that were left hanging. They did not have to do this because this was an independent contractor. But YTB did the right thing and took care of it. Unlike TTAs that went bad and the travelers were out of luck. And your "E & O" insurance did not cover that.
The reason YTB refunded the money to the people in Baltimore is not because they're great humanitarians...it's because those people could have gone to the attorney general with a claim. YTB doesn't want attorneys general looking at their business...who does? They would rather pay to make the bad travel stories go away and protect the MLM business...that's where their profits are.
ReplyDeletelbtravel, I'm sure the airlines that those pilots work for would be very interested in hearing about their side businesses. The airlines frown upon their employees working with their competitors (able to sell other airline). This is considered a conflict of interest.
ReplyDeletelbtravel~YTB was not refunding their money out of the goodness of their heart. Between the Attorney General's office and the TV doing the story on it they had no choice! They were forced to do it. Had it not been exposed they would have dragged their feet refunding the money back.
ReplyDeleteYou entirely missed the point as you usually do with that many RTA's uneducated, making false claims, not enough insurance to cover RTA's collective butts something is bound to happen and YTB will get sued. Doesn't take a crystal ball to figure that one out. And when it does the whole house of cards will come tumbling down. Good thing YTB is into cars and flowers to cover their rear.
lbtravel,
ReplyDeleteYou can disbelieve all you want. I don't work for a MLM/Card Mill or any other "get rich" scam. Fortunately I'm alot smarter than the people who join those cheering about how they made millions and billions in only a few months with little to no work.
It's still a scam and a pyramid no matter how you look at it, numbers don't lie, only the people working for YTB.
Yes, Numbers Don't Lie.
ReplyDeleteYTB's numbers are stunning. 70% of our earnings, for now, are Online Travel Businesses, each with they're own unique booking engine and address.
No conventional booking model can compete, spending $5 mil a week to bring visitors to they're models, with a model that spends nothing to promote it's visits.
The only thing that can hurt is bad press and JF's and others attempts at this seem to fail repeatly as well.
As the 136,000 become trained and experienced the percentages will change and travel will increase.
JF, Try not to worry too much about it. Just how it is.
Happy Holidays!
RobertsResorts.Net
Here's the newest BIZ REPORT from YTB (which comes out quarterly)
ReplyDeleteAlso, here's a list of other sites talking the good graces of YTB...
YTB INTERNATIONAL ENDS 2007 ON HIGH NOTE
WOOD RIVER, IL, December 20, 2007 -- YTB International, Inc. (OTC PK: YTBLA) ('YTB' or the 'Company'), a leading provider of Internet-based travel booking services for travel agencies and home-based independent representatives in the United States, is calling 2007 its best year ever, and is looking forward to continued success in 2008.
"Thanks to the hard work and commitment of our RTAs, 2007 has been a record-breaking year for YTB. We saw our first consecutive quarters of profitability with record revenue and net income. In addition, we more than doubled the size of our RTA network to more than 135,000 RTAs, reaching every state in the U.S. and Puerto Rico," said Scott Tomer, chief executive officer of YTB International. "We plan to build on this foundation in 2008 by expanding into Canada, offering fantastic tour packages for the Beijing Olympics, and continuing to improve our training programs and transactional systems, as well as many other new initiatives and opportunities."
Some of the company's highlights for the year include the following:
• Increasing total revenue for the nine months ended September 30, 2007 by 207.6% to $95.9 million, compared to $31.2 million for the same period last year;
• Being named by Travel Weekly as one of the top eleven leisure travel agencies and one of the 35 largest travel agencies overall for 2006;
• Having YTB International President, J. Kim Sorensen, named by Travel Weekly as one of the 33 most influential people in the travel industry;
• Holding a record-setting cruise "sail-a-thon," booking more than 12,000 passengers in less than 24 hours;
• Rolling out "YTB E-Campus," designed by Dr. Marc Mancini, one of the travel industry's most highly respected speakers, educators and consultants;
• Adding 93 new YTB Sales Directors between January 1, 2007 and December 17, 2007; and,
• Exceeding $225 million in travel sales for 2006 and already more than doubling that figure for 2007.
"This has been a great year for YTB," continued Tomer. "We've put a fantastic team in place from our executive staff to legal and communications partners, and, of course, our representatives in the field, who are really the heart and soul of YTB and the new face of travel on the Internet."
About YTB International
Recognized as the 35th largest seller of travel in the U.S. in 2006 by Travel Weekly, YTB International, Inc. provides Internet-based travel booking services for travel agencies and home-based independent representatives in the United States, Puerto Rico, and the US Virgin Islands. It operates through three subsidiaries: YourTravelBiz.com, Inc., YTB Travel Network, Inc., and REZconnect Technologies, Inc. YourTravelBiz.com division focuses on marketing online travel agencies through a nationwide network of independent business people, known as 'Reps.' YTB Travel Network division establishes and maintains travel vendor relationships, books travel transactions of online travel agents (RTAs, now numbering more than 135,000), collects travel commissions and pays sales commissions. Each RTA sells travel through a personalized Internet-based travel website. The REZconnect Technologies division builds online reservation systems for suppliers within the travel industry. For more information, visit http://www.ytbi.com/investor.
Statements about the Company's future expectations, including future revenues and earnings, and all other statements in this press release other than historical facts are "forward-looking statements" within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933, Section 21E of the Securities Exchange of 1934, and as that term is defined in the Private Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Such forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties and are subject to change at any time, and the Company's actual results could differ materially from expected results. The Company undertakes no obligation to update forward-looking statements to reflect subsequently occurring events or circumstances.
# # #
Media Contact:
Greg Wilson
Levick Strategic Communications for YTB International, Inc.
Phone: 202.973.1328
Mobile: 202.210.6201
Email: gwilson@levick.com
Investor Contact:
Garth Russell / Yemi Rose
KCSA Worldwide for YTB International, Inc.
Phone: 212.896.1250 / 212.896.1233
WOW! Look at some of the sites that have
picked up the preceding press release!
AOL Money News, 15,636,000 visitors per day
Excite, 474,000 visitors per day
Forbes.com, 256,000 visitors per day
Houston Chronicle
K-RON San Francisco TV 4
MSN Money, 30,584,000 visitors per day
Yahoo
My Way
PR Newswire, 53,000 visitors per day
Some sites display releases longer than others; links will expire as sites rotate their content.
Don't worry Earl, we'll keep at it. You just keep drinking the lookaid and pulling in the food stamps.
ReplyDeleteCome on guys, these statements appear in everyones MD&A (Management Discussion and Analysis) statement and is routine since SOX 404 raised its ugly head, everyone is covering their ass with totally logical meaningless statements about what can go wrong covering all the bases.
ReplyDeleteWe are not all idiots!
Merry Xmass!