As Doug Bauknight has said in his blog, he has learned a lot in the past couple of months from the "traditional" side of the fence and I have to admit, I have learned a lot from the "other" side of the fence as well.
I am certainly not willing to say that the MLM model is the best model, or even if it is a workable model (which I believe it is not). After all if the model works or doesn't--that is between the Reps, RTAs and YTB. If it is a bum deal, then they can work it out--we will just keep selling travel.
But I will say that there have been some very positive moves:
- The reduction of the YouTube videos. When they are reported, it seems that they are removed. Very good for the industry--shows some professionalism. Well, at least it does not show the unprofessionalism. But there are still many out there that ought to be taken down--listening EAB?
- The reaction to the RCI announcement. YTB attempted to talk and ran into a brick wall, so they struck out in a partnership with Carnival and tried to sell product. Certainly this is a more admirable retort than building a website against RCI and encouraging members to write flaming letters. If the sale was the success it was intended to be remains to be seen. There are no real accurate numbers out there and to be honest, I am not sure that Carnival and YTB know the correct numbers. But, it did show that YTB can indeed sell travel.
- The slap down by The Coach. The memo about professionalism was huge. I hope that the message can be heard and heeded by 150,000 independent people. And for those that don't heed, it, I hope YTB has the cajones to do something about it.
In my next post, I will talk about what I see as needed to narrow the divide!
Thank you John!
ReplyDeleteYTB has made considerable changes this year in an effort to sell more travel and show everyone that we are in fact a real travel company. Even before the RCCL announcement.
I've been with YTB for 3 years. I continue to learn and grow in this industry each and every day, and I share what I've learned in my years to my team and to anyone else in YTB who loves and cares for this industry the way I do.
One strong benefit to those of us in YTB is that we were already willing to make a change in our lives to begin with, from a Corporate World to that of being an Entrepreneur.
We understand, (or at least I do) that we must adapt or die.
I'm pleased with the work we have done and the changes we have made, and there is more to come to be sure.
I'm doubly pleased that the current changes made are not only recognized but acknowledged by you.
Thank You...
PS - GO STEELERS! ;-P
Now - I'd love to see another couple of "slap downs":
ReplyDeleteany YouTube marketing efforts should be approved by Headquarters;
they need to be reminded that while on a cruise/vacation, it is unprofessional to be soliciting business and that in fact, the cruiselines frown about it;
reward members MORE for selling travel rather than recruiting into the downline - really focus on selling travel not selling the business model;
educate REPs, etc. that it is service after the sale that matters - that loyalty is not won on price point but rather on good service....
Frankly, if they would get rid of the MLM horseshit, they'd have an opportunity to build a great sales force for travel....
"Frankly, if they would get rid of the MLM horseshit...."
ReplyDeleteReally CTA, I didn't think a respectable travel agent lady, like yourself, would say such a thing unless she had a whole mouth full of it!
they need to be reminded that while on a cruise/vacation, it is unprofessional to be soliciting business and that in fact, the cruiselines frown about it;
ReplyDeleteYou have not been keeping up with the rest of the class CTA. That's exactly what John was talking about above.
In addition, YTB just completed a contest for most Power Team Sales and ALSO FOR TRAVEL SALES.
500 of our Top RTA’s who sold TRAVEL will fill half a ship this year for Coach's Birthday Bash in January. The other half will be Power Team Leaders, and since the ENTIRE ship will be YTB’ers, there will be no need to recruit anyone while on the ship! LOL!
Marc Mancini & TheAcademy also put together our E-Campus Training to help us with "service after the sale" which I agree is important.
And while you consider the MLM portion of our company horse "manure", that's exactly why we have an opportunity to build a great sales force for travel....
Not keeping up and recognizing the changes we are making deserves it’s own “slap down” IMHO.
This week I went to Las Vegas Travel week. I attended all the shows. At the Home Based Agents expo, there was a small booth for YTB. It was right across the aisle from IATA. I took the time to observe and ask a few questions. The 2 reps for IATA had sour looks on their faces. The YTB group was ginning and happy.
ReplyDeleteIt seems no one was worried about the credentials. They feel the lawyers will work it out. They believe that YTB is already making the changes needed to show they are real sellers of travel. They acknowledged that it has grown so fast that the sponsors are not able to train the folks they sponsor. They as Directors are encouraging everyone to attend classes and do the training with CLIA, Travel Academy and Travel institute. They are selling travel. They have a web page but also have clients and make phone calls. They book travel almost the same way I do. They are also building a team. Yes they believe in the MLM plan.
Now I am thinking hard. What makes them any different from me? I learned the travel business from my great aunt. I took classes and went to conferences. I traveled and learned about people and places. I made friends and told my friends where they should go. Now they book with me and I have a job. I am getting paid for doing what I love. Am I better than an YTB person? No. Am I smarter or do I work harder? I doubt it. Do I recruit people? Well yes in a way. I have shown a few others what I do and I have helped them get started in the travel industry. At least YTB pays them to teach what they know. I just did it for the love of the trade.
I follow a few Blogs. I sift through the name calling and demands that the readers believe the writers. I then take the information and use it to learn and grow. I can read facts on most commercial web sites. Blogs are where the people post feelings. It is the feelings that tell you where the future is going. It was those feelings that made me notice YTB agents at the convention. They were dressed like pros and they talked and acted like pros. No one ever brought up recruiting. I engaged it casual conversation with them and they are just people learning how to improve the business they have started. In fact if I was not such a computer nerd I would have never noticed them except as individuals who I enjoyed a few minutes of pleasant conversation with.
"they need to be reminded that while on a cruise/vacation, it is unprofessional to be soliciting business and that in fact, the cruiselines frown about it;
ReplyDeleteYou have not been keeping up with the rest of the class CTA. That's exactly what John was talking about above."
Nope. I believe the memo - which we've all read refers only to industry events - a cruise is not an "industry event".
Also, I'd love it if someone would remind them not to place any materials that are not postmarked in mailboxes - that is illegal. I forgot about that ne.
And yes, Anon - I'm full to the roof of the mouth with all the horseshit I've been reading from the YTBers.
And - huge numbers do not make a great sales force - decent numbers of skilled, service -oriented people do.
"And yes, Anon - I'm full to the roof of the mouth with all the horseshit I've been reading from the YTBers."
ReplyDeleteAw shucks CTA, even though you say your mounth is full, you must really like it, cuz you always come back for more. lol
i heart christina!
ReplyDelete"any YouTube marketing efforts should be approved by Headquarters"
actually, ANY outisde marketing efforts have to be approved by headquarters. however, i think every compnay has people that don't follow the rules.
also, i think the requirements for the credentials will be HUGE in 2008. you'll either see a decline in sign-ups or a plateau, which, at 130,00+ still wouldn't be horrible. the e-training also sounds like a wonderful idea.
to me this is still a young company that didn't even exsist when i moved to the area and it seems to be good for the community it is in by offering jobs to local people. every young compnay starts off boisterous yet shaky. ytb seems to still have their sea legs is all. i mean, youtube is still tweaking their system and weeding out the "inappropriate" material. and look at the copy cats it inspired: godtube, redtube, etc...
ML can never make it.
ReplyDelete1) You run out of friends, etc....
2) What happens if everyone was a RTA...no more recruiting. Everyone gets perks...doesn't that put you right back at swaurd one? Everyone has the perks, then there are NO perks.
John, I'm dissapointed that you even suggest that they can exist. Because in the end, it all goes around in circles. The business model can not exist, eventually there will be nobody to recruit. The numbers can not lie.
So John, how much stock did YTB give you? How high up did they put you in their recruiting list?
ReplyDeleteThis sounds aweful funny...from someone to take that kind of turn within a day.
Did Earl bring you to the farm???
you'll either see a decline in sign-ups or a plateau, which, at 130,00+ still wouldn't be horrible.
ReplyDeleteIt wouldn't be horrible if most of those 130,000 are making money from selling travel. But if they're paying $50/month plus 40% of their commissions while hustling for new recruits to cover their nut...and still not selling much...and face it, competition is tough...then that would be horrible.
I don't know when YTB made this big turnaround...the meeting I went to was less than a month ago and they didn't talk much about travel...just recruiting and power teams and residuals and free travel. I had to bring up making money from selling travel...they just went over the YTB slide show that's just like the video online.
I think YTB's financial statement clearly shows what business they're in.
John, that was well said and I aplaude you for this topic.
ReplyDeletechristina, I aldo read your comment and aplaud you for taking the time to talk to YTB people at the convention and getting a better understanding of how serious we are about the business we are in.
I am pleased that the changes YTB is making to ensure that it stays compliant with the travel industry are being noticed.
We can co-exist!
"Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteML can never make it.
NOT SO. LOOK AT ALL THE MLM'S THAT HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR DECADES.
1) You run out of friends, etc....
NOT SO. IN MLM YOU GAIN MORE FRIENDS BY WAY OF GATHERINGS AND MEETINGS, ECT. YOU WANT FRIENDS? JOIN AN MLM.
2) What happens if everyone was a RTA...no more recruiting. Everyone gets perks...doesn't that put you right back at swaurd one? Everyone has the perks, then there are NO perks.
EVERYONE WILL NOT BECOME AN RTA. NOT EVERYONE WILL EVER USE A PERK. FOLKS LIKE YOU SHOULD PROBABLY STAY OUT OF MLM'S.
John, I'm dissapointed that you even suggest that they can exist. Because in the end, it all goes around in circles. The business model can not exist, eventually there will be nobody to recruit. The numbers can not lie."
YOU HAVE ALREADY BEEN PROVEN WRONG BY MANY SUCCESSFUL MLM MODELS OVER THE DECADES.
It's just funny that all the MLM millionaires are on the boards and blogs...they;re hard to meet in person.
ReplyDeleteAnd John,,,did anyone ever show you their backoffice commission page? Just wondering about the turnabout...
There has never been any documentation provided that anyone is making substantial money selling travel in YTB or any other MLM.
ReplyDeleteI tend to agree that the MLM will not be sustainable. Sure there are many successful ones out there, but they are selling a PRODUCT. Some may say travel is a product, but any other MLM product has a lot more mark up than travel. Also look at the price point. There are far more people willing to shell out $20 on some magic potion than there are to shell out a couple of grand on a cruise.
Stay tuned for part 2.
Why buy a water filter for $120, when you can get the same quality one for $20 at Wal-Mart? These lotions and potion MLMs only stick around for a short time, because people realize that they can get the same product for far less at the corner store. What's that new stuff... MonaVie? I can go to a grocery store and buy pomagranate juice and get the same results (not tha i would drink it...LOL). What allows YTB to stick around a a player in the travel industry is that they don't take a $1500 cruise and mark it up 300% and try to sell it. No, they sell the same cruise with the same ship, cabin, destination for roughly the same competitive price. What separates YTB from Expedia is that you know of Expedia, but you know someone in YTB. If your neighbor had a travel website, and you wanted to book a cruise... Both websites were exactly the same price... WHO WILL YOU BOOK WITH...
ReplyDeleteExpedia?
Neighbor?
Book with Expedia: You book through a company you only know about through advertising. You are just a confirmation number to them. Your money goes toewards another tv, radio or newspaper ad... or even another scenery blocking billboard on the highway. They don't care if you continue to use them or not.
Book with YTB (neighbor): You book your travel through a friend... someone you know and knows you. You are not just a confirmation number or a client to them. You are a friend. A YTB agent cares if you return. YTB uses word of mouth advertising, so instead of paying for a billboard, you are allowing a friend to earn a commission.
No flames here, just an interesting observation. I found this article from Travel Trade.
ReplyDelete"John Frenaye, the sponsor of the MLM petition, "MLM Travel Agents Cheapen Industry," that has to date won over 2,600 travel agent and supplier signatures."
I also found out that according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), there were 88,590 travel agents in May 2005.
So, doing the math, John's petition only garnered a dismal 2.9% of travel agents only. If you counted the suppliers, it gets worse.
John even admits in the article, "But the reaction from the associations has been disappointing. Only one agency group - Roger Block of Carlson Wagonlit Travel - has responded," Frenaye noted.
Just to add...
ReplyDeleteTravel is not a product. Travel is a service, and this is what separates us from the other MLMs.
People don't just buy travel, they experience it!
A lotion or potion may be bought, used once, and then set on a shelf to be forgotten about... or even thrown away.
A vacation is something people don't forget about. They take a trip, have a great time, take pictures, return and talk about the great time they had that one week... for years to come!!!
We live in an apathetic world. Hell, how many of the YTB RTAs sold a cruise on November 9th? I was disappointed in the supplier showing, but I think that the final tally was very good for essentially a grass roots effort--it was done one email at a time. By the way, I notice that the "Pro YTB Petition only has 192 signatures .14% so I figure I am doing ok. http://www.petitiononline.com/yestomlm/petition.html
ReplyDeleteAnd as for booking with Expedia or my neighbor. To be honest, I am probably going to be booking with Expedia. They have been around a long time, they are a proven entity, they are a company that can stand behind their commitments. It is not my neighbor who happened to have $500 and decided to throw up a website. And besides, as most good businesspeople will tell you, it is bad business to do business with friends and family.
Expedia has only been around since 2001. Well, technically it was spun in 1999, but only active since 01.
ReplyDeleteWalk into any mall and ask 100 people the following question:
ReplyDeleteIf you had to book travel right now, who would you feel least comfortable booking with?
Orbitz
Travelocity
Expedia
Priceline
Retail Travel Agent
YTB
Wanna bet the answer?
Sure you may get granny to buy from you or maybe your neighbor, but the average joe is going to go with a brand they recognize. Why do you think that name brand foods and drugs do so well.
While you may have the largest travel sales force around, you really have a small slice of the travel pie. No one knows your name outside of your immediate sphere of influence (oooh how's that for a MLM-Kool Aid Term?? See I do know something)
John said...
ReplyDelete"Walk into any mall and ask 100 people the following question:
If you had to book travel right now, who would you feel least comfortable booking with?
Orbitz
Travelocity
Expedia
Priceline
Retail Travel Agent
YTB
Wanna bet the answer?"
My Dear John, I noticed you went for the negative thought, "least comfortable". I would have used the phrase, "most comfortable". Your postings do reflect much negativity. Perhaps your life is full of it. I hope you are not choking on the horsy dung that CTA in MD is.
Give it a few more years John. Clearly people in that same mall will recognize the YTB name and logo as a viable means to book travel with.
For the record... YTB has been around longer than Expedia.
ReplyDeleteGive it time... more and more people will be booking with YTB rather than Expedia.
Bad business??? Maybe when trying to sell a product not everyone uses... or can buy cheaper at a grocery store... or Wal-Mart, but not when it comes to travel. My family books through me. My friends book through me... even a few peple that don't like me... which there are only a few (whom I used to work with) book through me. In actuality, in the travel business, it's best to start with people you know, because they can tell others that you don't know about your business. It's called "word of mouth advertizing".
O'Riley has the "No spin zone", this is the "No Flame Zone".
Hello Proud to be YTB.
ReplyDeleteI also am Proud to be YTB.
Why? Well, my story is simple.
My wife and I came into the business at the 11th hour. We really had our "why". I'm not going to expound upon it, but we decided to embrace the YTB business seriously.
Maybe some people will laugh at us, but we now made almost $6,000 in about 5 months. We almost lost everything and are still hanging on thanks to YTB.
The company is great! The call center reps are excellently trained to handle our questions.
I sincerely want to become a respected travel agent. I have much to learn.
Thank you!
Hello anonymous and I am glad that you have found faith in YTB... just as I have. Many people don't understand the integrity behind YTB, but I do. As long as you continue to work the travel business, and focus on making sure that your down-line RTAs are well trained... as long as you make use of all the training resources available to you... GREAT THINGS WILL HAPPEN!!!
ReplyDeleteThe 2 best things you can do with YTB to ensure your successs are:
1. Go the extra mile for your clients. The best clients are the ones who not only return, but also tell others about how you sent them on a great vacation.
2. Be a role model for your down-line!!! Everything you know... teach them! If someone in your down-line is struggling... help them. If someone in your down-line does something really good, congratulate them! If you take care of your down-line, they will take care of you!
This is part of the integrity behind YTB! This is what keeps us strong! This is what makes us grow! This is why YTB will be #1!
Welcome aboard!
Now get out there and sell some travel!!!
Proud said,
ReplyDelete"Welcome aboard!
Now get out there and sell some travel!!!
Thank you Proud! I appreciate the encouragement."
Proud, what really inspired us and changed our thinking was this. "You make a living from 9 to 5, but you make your fortune from 5to 9"
Thanks again!
John,
ReplyDeleteYour a fake. Keep cheering for YTB! The stock sucks....and you suck also!
I bet your a YTB insurgent...talk smack then you back out...imagine that.
Hi Proud,
ReplyDeleteFor More Great Travel Training, Don't miss the Special "CARNIVAL CONNECTIONS TRAINING CALL" We're having at 10:30 AM - 11:30 AM This Morning..12/08 With A "Business Development Director From Carnival Cruise Lines" Who Was Named Carnival's "BDM Of The Year" For Outstanding Service Provided To Travel Agents & Was Selected For This Honor From Carnival's BDM Team!
A few points.
ReplyDeleteComments are not for advertising--aren't all your Coaching calls on the website somewhere?
Secondly, I was initially going to use the term "most comfortable" but to be honest, it might be difficult to get an answer when the other brands are so well known. How about this: You need to go to the Dell kiosk and book a vacation right now---where do you go?
Expedia
Orbitz
Travelocity
Priceline
YTB
Is that better?
Proud 2. Are you busting you hump in the business? I suspect you are, and I appreciate your honesty. $1,000 a month. Hopefully it will increase, but even at double that, it is barely the living that I am talking about. Just extrapolating some numbers, but that probably reflects close to $10,000 in commissions earned. You gave away $4,000 of them. A lot of travel hosts do not take anything other than a small fee. One that I know of charges $98 a month and offers pretty much the same deal as YTB less the recruiting option. You don't say if this $6,000 is net of your expenses or not either. But if you are serious, work hard at it and to be honest, do not expect the riches that may have been alluded to.
John...$10,000 in commissions?!...you've gotta be kidding...or you've forgotten what YTB is. It's more likely Proud2 has made a bunch of recriutment bonuses and maybe earned a coupla hundred in travel commissions...and that's being generous.
ReplyDeleteI thought we covered this with Proud1....
Good point...Proud2....was it in commissions?
ReplyDeleteI somewhat assumed that it might be travel because they talked about the call center handling questions and that there was not the claim of Proud1 that they were making $30,000 per month in addition to $64K - $100K in travel commissions.
Mea culpa!
Or how about this: Ask 100 people in the mall that knows somebody in YTB that you need to go to the Dell kiosk and book a vacation right now---where do you go?
ReplyDeleteHow about this: You need to go to the Dell kiosk and book a vacation right now---where do you go?
ReplyDeleteExpedia
Orbitz
Travelocity
Priceline
YTB
Travels with Fred
Realistically, how many people have ever gone to a DELL kiosk to purchase anything other than a Dell product... LOL!!!
ReplyDeleteFor the record... I did make a correction and stated that it was $63K in travel sales.
Now there's a "Proud2" on the boards. This could get confusing. Just keep referring to me as either "Proud" or "Proud1" so I know it's me you're talking to.
Travels With Fred? Of course they are not going to go there!
ReplyDeleteBut then again, I am not spouting off about selling billions of dollars of travel.
TWF is a web presence for a high touch operation. YTB is a no touch website with a call center presence for when things get really messed up.
See the difference?
And I said YTB in general--I did not specify
www.ourtravelbiz.com/billbobstravel.html
1. your link didn't work.
ReplyDelete2. Problems with a website and a call center? You really should go to the YTB office and check out the call center and how many people there are to handle any calls that come in. Just to see the YTB office is an amazing sight in itself!
The link was not supposed to work.
ReplyDeleteSo, are you now saying that YTB is all about the high touch personal service? Or is it still the "go to my website" mentality?
The mere existence of a call center in a rehabbed K-Mart says nothing. When I called that call center to witness them in action, they could not even sell me a cruise that you were advertising. They wanted to sell me a certificate, but that was it.
When pressed, they gave me Carnival's number. When I called there, I got the agent desk who would not talk to a consumer (she kept asking me for my agency ID number). I tried to explain that I was responding to an ad sent to me by email for a one day cruise sale at YTB, I was told I needed to call YTB. When I explained that I already called their toll free number (in the ad) they said I needed to call Carnival.
She transfered me to one of their PVPs to take the booking. Well, I did not book, but I wonder how many cruises you all missed out on because of the crackerjack call center you have?
That's because you have to go through a YTB agent to book the cruise... or anything else. The call center does not handle NEW bookings.
ReplyDeleteJohn, I have stated this before.
Again, I reiterate that we are trained to handle one to one bookings with our clients. This means off-site as well! I have stated that we... the YTB agents have our own set of agent only numbers to contact the vendors DIRECTLY on our clients behalf, and book their trips that way. Then, we submit a COMMISSION CLAIM FORM into YTB through our website so that we get credit for the booking.
YTB is NOT just point and click. YTB is a FULL SERVICE TRAVEL AGENCY!
The call center handles 2 things...
1) itinerary changes
2) cancellations
... in which they need your confirmation number in order to help you.
I actually called the call center for a client who had to change a hotel date because of a personal matter that arose that prevented them from reaching the hotel on the date specified. I gave them my info, the client's info and confirmation number, and had absolutely no problem changing their check-in time for the following day... and check-out an extra day from what was previously booked.
Really, why does it matter if the gentleman who earned $6k with his new part-time YTB business was from travel or marketing commissions? Fact is he recognized an opportunity to help his situation and family by owning his own business through a company that rewarded both and he took a risk. His small business is years of head of most other startups as it's already profitable in less than 6 months while providing tax advantages that will help him keep more of his earned dollars. It doesn't matter if the profit was based on his sales skills or marketing skills that appealed to others. Fact is, his host company rewarded him for his efforts either through sales or by helping increase YTBs presense in the industry through building their sales team. With the words of Kiyosaki, it would be great if more of us minded our own business.
ReplyDeleteProud #1. Please stop saying stupid things. If you want to give me your email address, I will email you the proof you need. But quoting from the advertisement on the One Day Sale
ReplyDeleteTo book your cruise, call the SPECIAL TOLL FREE NUMBER, for this promotion which will be posted here and be active only during the 24 hours of this event
It did not say to call your CRTA. It did not say to call Carnival. It said to call the special number. It did not say call the special number to get a certificate or to change an itinerary. It said call that number to BOOK!
And from what I heard, because of the anticipated demand, it was all hands on the Carnival sale and to hell with anyone that may have a problem with other travel.
Honestly, for being a director, I am surprised you are so out of the loop.
I dont care where he earned his money. But my issue is that YTB keeps saying they are a travel company but the numbers say something else.
ReplyDeleteThey are using travel to legalize the marketing scheme (and it may not be too successful since 70+% of their revenues are from marketing) and they tout these perks and benefits of being a travel agent.
FAM trips, discounted travel, earn commissions and so forth. So if someone makes $100K a year and $99K is from marketing, I have a REAL problem with them getting any type of perks or spiff. They are not travel agents!
That number was given for us to make a direct sale with our clients... not for the clients themselves to call. We were given these instructions:
ReplyDelete1) for group cruises, call this number.
2) provide YTB I.D. number so the sale will be credited to you
3) provide clients info.
This is what we were told to do, and this is how we did it.
The common client could not use this number to book a cruise. The client would have to go through an RTA either by website or in person to book for this sales event.
I'm not talking stupid stuff. These are the facts my friend.
Please stop. When you went to ANY YTB booking site that day, there was a Carnival sale link in the upper right corner probably 1/3 of the homne page. It said click here for the one day sale. You click there and that was the info provided.
ReplyDeleteIt did not say don't call this number if you want to buy a cruise. It did not say you have to sign up to be a RTA before calling this number. It said TO BOOK YOUR CRUISE CALL THIS MUMBLER.
Now unless there is some sort of secret decoder ring the coach issues everyone, the reasonable person would call that number.
If your facts are true...why was the call center so anxious to get a credit card number for a certificate?
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I hope your downline is not reading your comments. They might be asking for a transfer.
For your next comment, pick a different post. This one is over quota on stoopit things
That sales e-mail was given to the YTB RTAs... NOT the clients! The clients received a different e-mail which provided the heading of their RTAs websites and told the clients of each RTA to either visit their website or contact their RTA.
ReplyDeleteThat number wasn't for the clients to use on their own.
CONGRATULATIONS--your idiocy has won you an award. Your clue will be sent to you in 4 to 6 weeks!
ReplyDeleteI am not an RTA. So how do I get that number? They may have sent you an email with directions, but on ALL RTA sites, when you clicked on the promotion it directed you to call that number!
Maybe your IT guy screwed it up. But the FACT is that it was on every RTA site out there.
Read it here
http://www.yourtravelbiz.com/rta/press_release.pdf
It has two calls to action....call the toll free number and down on the bottom call your YTB Travel Agent (hey, I thought you were RTAs). It is completely directed at the consumer so please stop with your "facts".
Again, being the big insider you think you are--you are once again proven wrong.
The difference when I prove you wrong is that I can document or substantiate it. You, on the other hand just scream that you proved me wrong. Has not happened yet.
Did you read the link? Can you read? Care to comment?
Sail-a-Thon News!
ReplyDeleteToday, November 8, 2007
Ends Midnight Tonight!
Sail-a-Thon Live Webcast Tonight!
5pm - Midnight Tonight CST
Live from the Home Office in Wood River! Coach, Scott, and Kim!
Special Guests! Posting cruise bookings to the tote board!
Travel Training with Ann Sedgwick from CCL!
Free Access, just click the Live Webcast link from your Back Office.
Tonight's Travel Training Call
Live Webcast
Ann Sedgwick, Carnival BDM, hosts tonight's travel training from
Sail-A-Thon Central. Click the webcast link in your Back Office.
You may also join the call as usual by dialing 641-594-7505
8:30 pm Eastern, 7:30 pm Central, 6:30 pm Mountain, 5:30 pm Pacific
Sail-a-Thon Booking FAQs
Click here for quick instructions on purchasing Carnival
Gift Certificates, individual and group booking phone numbers,
and important deposit information,
Come aboard Carnival's Fun Ships with YTB
as we shoot for an all time one-day
booking record TODAY, November 8!
We need your help! YTB has set a GOAL... a goal to announce beyond a
shadow of a doubt that YTB RTAs are SERIOUS about booking travel...
and in this case, about booking cruises and supporting the vendors
who support YTB. This is where YOU come in!
YTB NOVEMBER 8
Ends Midnight Tonight!
CRUISE EXTRAVAGANZA!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Option 1
The preferred (and easiest) way is to purchase
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presents, bonuses, giveaways, birthdays, anniversaries,
and more! Don't know when you want to cruise? It's the perfect gift!
Click the ship to purchase the Carnival Gift Certificate
Option 2
Today, November 8, you may also book individual and group cruises
by calling Carnival Cruise Lines directly:
Individual cruises 1-800-327-9501
Group cruises 1-800-327-5782
(Don't forget to submit Commission Claim Form)
Option 3
You and your customers book on your personalized booking engine on
November 8 or call the 24 hour Cruise Booking Hotline at
1-866-400-9382 on November 8. Please make sure your clients
are provided with your YTB ID#.
Start planning your Carnival Cruise vacation today, and be ready to book your cruise with YTB and Carnival on Thursday, November 8th!
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Contact information: yourTravelBiz.com, 1901 East Edwardsville Road, Wood River, IL 62095 | Phone 618.655.9477
CST # 2057620-40 FLA. Seller of Travel-Reg. No. St-33570 OHIO St. ID# - 8889162
IOWA TA# - 666 WA-UBI# - 602 141 482 HI-TAR# - 5851
Noptice that the end line said "YOU and your clients".. not "you or your clients" this means together... not apart. Also notice that it also states that your client needs youe I.D. #! Well, we don't give out our I.D. #'s to anyone, so an RTA MUST be present while the phone call is made... if it is chosen to be done bu phone.
I understood this perfectly!
We also receievd another e-mail telling us that this IS the way it needs to be done! So don't sit there and tell me "NO" when I was the one who receieved the information on how it is to be done properly.
You don't work for YTB... I DO! And to answer a question you may have... YES I did use the number to book one of those cruises at the home of one of my clients because they didn't have their internet hooked up yet. How i found these clients... I overheard them talking about a cruise while I was having lunch at Subway. I then told them about the sale and how I could help them book their cruise. I gathered the info on when they wanted to sail, went home ... did some research. I then called them and went to their house to present the list of available cruises. On the 8th, I went back to their house, and we made the call. this was a group cruise for 6 cabins (12 people), so it couldn't be booked from the website anyway.
I also admit that I did also buy one of those certificates to give my folks for a Christmas present. I can't wait until I see the look on their faces when they open 5 wrapped boxes inside each other... with the certificate in the last box.
Not flaming... just stating the facts.
Option 3
ReplyDeleteYou and your customers book on your personalized booking engine on
November 8 or call the 24 hour Cruise Booking Hotline at
1-866-400-9382 on November 8. Please make sure your clients
are provided with your YTB ID#.
you AND your customers can call...what is unclear about that? Nothing was said on the websites or the release about having a special RTA number to do it.
And another of my peeves is a lack of ability to contact RTAs. Here is a standard site
http://www.ytbtravel.com/gatorsgetaways
Please show me where it lists the RTA number?
ytb
ReplyDelete24 Hour Carnival Cruise Event – November 8th!
Come aboard Carnival’s Fun Ships with YTB as we shoot for an all-time one day booking record.
Book anytime from midnight, November 7th to midnight, November 8th and receive a one or two category
upgrade on selected ships and sailings! YTB travel agents will be standing by to help you select the sailing that’s
right for you, and obtain the best accommodations and pricing available for that sailing.
To book your cruise, call the SPECIAL TOLL-FREE NUMBER for this promotion which will be posted here
and be active only during the 24 hours of this event.
Start planning your Carnival Cruise Vacation today, and be ready to book your cruise with YTB and Carnival on
November 8th.
Carnival Military Promotion
In honor of Veteran’s Day, Carnival is showing our appreciation by discounting cruise fares for those who have
taken an oath to protect our country. If you are active or retired military personnel you can book up to three “Fun
Ship” staterooms for yourself and your friends and family at special rates, starting as low as $189 per person.
Reserve anytime between Nov. 1-30, 2007 and let a vacation to the Bahamas, Caribbean, Mexican Riviera,
Alaska, Hawaii, Canada, New England, Bermuda, Europe, the Greek Isles or South America be your
“call of duty.”
To take advantage of this exciting offer, contact your YTB Travel Agent today!
ytb
It may have been worded wrong somewhere, but I understand it just fine. In lamen's terms, it means to call the number for further info in the special sales event... then at the bottom, it says On Nov 8 "TO TAKE ADVANTAGEOF THIS EXCITING OFFER, CONTACT YOUR YTB TRAVEL AGENT TODAY"
This means thet a client MUST go throug an agent or an agent's website to book the cruise!!!
Those who tried the number were turned away from booking it themselves. No agent... no cruise.hey, I didn't type this, but I did follow specific instructions.
Since you added an attack in your post, you can keep your "idiot award".
The RTA number is the RTa's personal Identification number, and is NOT listed on the website for security purposes! Would you give someone your social security number? Well it's like that.
ReplyDelete"You and your clients" is spelled out perfectly clear! it doesn't say "you or your clients". The word "AND" is a conjunction which means TOGETHER!!! "OR" means one or the other.
You are amazing...... in your own post, it says under Option 3. Make sure your clients have your YTB ID. Now you are saying it is equivalent to your social security number?
ReplyDeleteWhy the sudden concern about identification numbers. One would think the IATAN number is a bit confidential, but YTB has no problem putting it on 136,000 ID cards in hopes that their "agents" will get a perk.
And when people called the number, they were not turned away. An attempt to sell them a certificate was made and if they were insistent on a cruise, they were told to call Carnival..the agent number...just like the one on your website. So, the RTA is unable to help (via the website) and the call center is unable to help.
I bet you lost a LOT of sales to Carnival on that day because of incompetence.
Also, those who are serious about helping their clients in every way possible DO have their phone number posted on their website as I do. I cannot speak for those who do not have their phone number posted on their site. That's personal preference.
ReplyDeleteI didn't make the rules John, so don't blame me!!!!!
ReplyDeleteI was, however smart enough to understand and follow the instructions that were given to me regarding the bookings of this event.
As far as the personal Identification # goes... YES, it is NOT to be given to clients to use on your behalf. YOU MUST be present whils making a call to give the YTB your I.D. upon booking so you can receive credit for your sale. Also, your I.D. # in the wrong hands could spell trouble! Someone could call YTB pretending to be you... saying that you changed your e-mail address and need your password sent. Then they have full access to your website, and your back office where all your personal info is stored... including your credit card info!
Again, i didn't make the rules.
Hey john
ReplyDeleteProud is right.
John, you say your issue is that "...YTB keeps saying they are a travel company but the numbers say something else". No. It's your interpretation of those numbers that is misleading you to believe what you want to see. If they're not a travel company what license or stipulation constitutes the ability to say they are? I'm sure what ever it is they have it. If not, it would probably be a crime, if not impossible, to sell travel without it. So, no matter how hard you fight it, I'm sure you agree that technically and legitimately according to governing industry laws they are travel company.
ReplyDeleteTo make it simple: YTB, Traveas, and others sell a common product/service that's known as travel. MLM is merely the business marketing model methodology, and/or framework chosen for distribution and moving that product or service to consumers. That's evident by the fact that someone can join YTB's MLM company for free as an MLM Rep....No Cost! But, they cannot sell travel or earn commissions for free though as there’s an investment cost to open your own business and license the e-commerce website as I understand it.
John, numbers are numbers...they don't talk. I think you're trying to interpret the numbers without taking MLM into account. They are MLM and use it to distribute travel products and grow their distribution channels. I'm sure you see that in the numbers right...where they sell travel and they reward RTAs for building their independent sales contractor base?
There's no marketing scheme to legalize...because there's no scheme to begin with. They're not withholding the fact they are a licensed travel company that uses MLM as an option for those who which to engage it and earn money other than travel sales.
Your a business person, so I'm sure you've researched and understand the MLM distribution model regardless of your feelings towards it. What's the issue with someone owning their own business in which they can buy travel through their own website and thereby save what would normally be paid to another online site? Don't you buy your own travel through yourself?
The touting of benefits is no different with any other Host Agency. If the secret must get out, many Host Agencies tout it. It’s the industry in which we operate and every industry has it's perks. Each of the 5 Host Agencies I interviewed and the company I joined informed me of the benefits I would receive.
You say "So if someone makes $100K a year and $99K is from marketing, I have a REAL problem with them getting any type of perks or spiff. They are not travel agents!". I agree with that John, but I see that as an industry wide problem (not just MLM travel companies). Perhaps there should be some sort of sales requirements to receive benefits and licensing requirement to be able to use that title similar to Real Estate Agents, Doctors, Lawyers, Mortgage Brokers and other professionals. Fortunately, there are vendors that have systems and policies in place to ensure such individuals are not abusing the privilege.
John, you're right about the RTA #, but I found the one at http://www.ytbtravel.com/gatorsgetaways by clicking on "Groups" -- it's at the end of the address in the address bar. But, of course, the average persons wouldn't know where to look, or what it was if s/he was looking at it. It would be a much better setup if the RTAs name, contact information and RTA # were at the top of the "Help" page.
ReplyDeleteI looked at this person's website, and this person has it set up to go directly to the travel portal, so people don't see his/her phone number. Again, i cannot speak for this person, because it's his/her preference.
ReplyDeleteWhen people go to my website, it goes to my home page where my photo is posted along with all my contact info... including my phone number! I want my clients to be able to reach me. This is my preference, because I want to be the best RTA I can be for YTB.
http://www.ytb.com/Default.aspx?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
Cut and paste the above link to view the YTB demo website.
Now, here's where the lesson begins.
Those who are serious about being great RTAs for YTB will have a page like this one as their start-up page. On the left side is where the RTA places their photo and contact info for clients... and prospects alike... to contact them.
Also, there are other routes an RTA can use to allow clients to contact them if they don't want this as their start-up page. They use business cards which have their contact info on them. I use both... the start-up page and business cards, and I post ALL of my info on them.
And John, if I wanted you to know who i was, and give you the ability to call me and e-mail me with your attacks, I would have posted my website here. Since I don't want that to happen, it's my prerogative... or in layman's terms for you to understand... MY FREEDOM OF CHOICE!!! Since you are neither a client nor a prospect... you don't need to know... just the same way that you hid your info here so that unwanted people can't contact you off this blog.
I think we can all co-exist; but I do believe the MLM companies need to be policed a bit more in regards to their marketing efforts and tactics when it comes to Internet marketing videos.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I believe the Internet will continue to force Traditional agents to change the way business is done by diversifying marketing efforts and look at other revenue options to generate sales.
Case in point, my father informed me recently that he and the other Exec's have decided to begin piloting YTB Jan. 1st. The contract with their current traditional agent, who they've used for 3 years, will be up early next year so it'll give them about 90 days to test. Unfortunately, I couldn't get his business given conflict of interest to basically negate any risk of kick-backs.
Their current Agent is home-based who's service has been impecible as she's always responded immediately no matther the hour of day. However, my father indicated that although service is important, price wins due to the volume and she's in another state so no there's no personal relationship or communication other than by email and the occasional call. They do approx. $300K a year in travel worldwide, but specifically in regards to air, the agent's fee of $50 per airline reservation and $25 fee per change (above and beyond the airlines fee penalty) is too high and unfortunately, she's declined to negotiate a lower rate while other bids were in the same ballpark.
From what I understand, they would use the company's YTB travel website mainly for domestic air and hotels as well as call hotels and international air consolidators directly. Based on their initial projections, the savings will overwhelmingly exceed the salary of a travel agent they would look to hire to manage it. I'm anxious to see how that works out for them. I advised him not to jump too soon and not to burn any bridges with their current agent.
But we are talking travel here. Doesn't it make sense to if you are selling travel to have your contact information on the --- BOOKING site? Do you expect someone that books on your site to know your "other" site that has your contact information.
ReplyDeleteIf I have harassed anyone with phone calls or emails, please speak up. I have had some great discourse with YTB people via email. Actually I would consider Doug a friend and a reasonable person. We disagree and that is fine, but he is not spouting out nonsense.
And for the record, I have a personal blog in my private life and by linking a public profile on here, I would open that to the world--which I do not want to do.
But since you feel I am hiding such a big secret....
PO Box 4875
Annapolis, MD 21403
410-280-0231
john@jvegroup.net
What's your excuse?
300K is not that big of an account but it is a nice piece of business.
ReplyDeleteAs a tip to your father, make sure you look at all costs. The non refundable stuff that may be lost, etc.
I have found that having a person managing the account usually recovers a lot of these costs (hey this NR ticket is expiring, let's use it now to get some value from it) type of thing.
It will be interesting. Please post back and let us know how that all works out.
Will do John...thanks for the tips; and I'll post their test results.
ReplyDeleteI too would like to thank John. Though it's been a dog-fight of sorts.
ReplyDeleteI never said I was the best suited to stand up to John Freneye, Jr. or the travel powers that be. I just figured I had the least to lose and if my company did not fire me first, I was at the right place at the right time. They have not.
Wanted you to know I have taken down my videos because I had used personal names in my defense of our marketing system and company name, much like you did in your MSNBC and petition. I wanted to take a different direction, and tone things down a bit. As to what you are to do on Sundays...try football, I'll be fishing in my bass pond if the wind dies down.
I am still very concerned about travelers paying any agent in full for travel they don't receive. I challenge you and the other big-shots, conventionally and in my company, to come up with a solution.
It appears bonding is not addressing this continue blight on the industry.
Unlike some here, I actually did read and learn from the exchange and had to deceide for myself if I wanted to continue in this negative exchange,even with ideas.
I stand by my comments and have never put anything on the internet I did not believe was true or I was not prepared to defend 100%.
As far as me hurting the industry. Your previous uneducated comments about a marketing model now used in travel has, and continues to have, a negative effect on the entire industry as well. It has, as I promised it would, put a bad taste in everyones mouth, not just YTB reps. Hopefully those days are over, or will be soon.
I believe time will show, even you, that there has never been a product, including travel businesses, goods or services that has ever been better suited for the relationship marketing industry model, like it or not it's something I know a little about.
I know some of you would like to see my company further control it's Independant Contractors and I feel you could use some contraints at times. But it's still America.
Even I have the right to be wrong.
The internet has become a powerful tool of equalization, even a fat, guy from the farm, can get his message heard and the same guy can have success in anything he's willing to work hard enough and long enough for, using the technology.
As you and others here know, like it or not, it has leveled the playing field.
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