Even after my meeting the other day, I was solicited again by a YTB agent via email. I engaged them via email (complete with my full signature including the link to this blog--go figure) and asked them to send me some information on the program. I was directed to go to a website that had all the information I needed including all the perks I can reap for traveling like a pro and the tax advantages!Now I am not sure how long these will remain active as it seems YTB has been pretty proactive in removing anything that makes my position stronger, but I will post some excerpts here. You can surf that site and see for yourself as well. As for the documents, I have them on my hard drive.
But, read this post, check out the website, and look at the presentation and then tell me that they are about selling travel. It is about the perks. It is about tax savings. It is about recruiting more people into the pyramid.
This document is an invite to a presentation announcing your new travel business. The headline is:
Travel like the pros never pay full price again travel wholesaleThis document is for a postcard that can be distributed.
Travel first class for pennies on the dollar.This is a very long video presentation, but by 3 minutes and 45 seconds the discussion on the perks and discounts is in full swing. The statement the presenter makes is "Just by becoming an RTA you are now and insider." From there, he launches into the FAM opportunities and quite honestly presents them as discounted vacations which they are not!
You will receive Travel Agent Credentials!
Have access to Familiarization (FAM) Trips!
Significantly, discounted trips around the world!
- Princess Cruise Lines from $25 per day .
- Royal Caribbean from $40 per day
- Celebrity Cruise Lines from $40 per day
- Norwegian Cruise Lines from $35 per day
- Disney Cruise Lines from $80 per day
- Radisson Seven Seas from $125 per day
- Holland America from $60 per day
- Airtran Airways from $55 one way
- Westin Hotels, Sheraton Hotels from $49/day
- Universal Studios Orlando Comp. 1 day/2 park pass
- Crown Plaza Hotels, Holiday Inn, Baymont Inns Comfort = Inns, Clarion Hotels, Omni Hotels,
- -MANY MORE 50% off rack Rate
- Hyatt Resorts, Radisson Resorts special FAM Rates
- Avis Car Rental 20% off lowest rate
- Spirit Airlines $120.00 round trip
- (not counting tax and pfc’s)
- for travel agent and companion on same itinerary
And here is another presentation along similar lines.
To the suppliers our there that are reading this blog (and I know there are many), is this what you want for representation of your product? Yes, they move some market, but at what cost? Do you not realize that YTB and the other MLM companies are discounting your product without your permission? YOU control the product, but YTB has signed up 136,000 people to date on the promises that they will travel for free or close to it.
Does Carnival tell its employees that they can take a 50% discount at WalMart? Does Collette Vacations market their product and offer a discount on Hallmark Cards? Do Apple Vacations, NCL, and the others dictate the level of discounts for OTHER companies? Hell no! So why are you allowing it now?
You can offer the perks and benefits--but that is all they are. YTB is selling them as if they are a guarantee. And when you offer them, you are setting a really dangerous precedent. I cannot tell my clients to call you direct and get a 50% discount. Why are the rules different?
You guys are paying top commissions and your "agent" is selling your perks. So, I ask the following vendors (with their commission levels)...is it worth it to you?
Carnival (16)
Costa (14)
Crystal (13) (and I am absolutely stunned to see Crystal on this based on their rebating/solicitation policy)
Cunard (13)
Disney (15)
Holland America (16)
NCL (16)
Princess (15)
Contiki (10)
Insight (10)
Trafalgar (10)
Apple (14) (are they at least a Platinum Apple Agency?)
Collette (10)
Rockwell (13)
Travel Impressions (15)
Well?
You would think that a company that runs 24-7 with so many employees would have updated their info by now...RCL discounts? And I was told by one of the listed hotels "NO IATA, no discount". Are these the people you want to depend on when travel plans change in the middle of a trip?
ReplyDeleteUnless...updating the facts wouldn't be beneficial to recruiting...ok then, disregard the truth about the travel...just say whatever it takes to get more people in the pyramid. MLM business as usual. Good call, coach.
To the suppliers our there that are reading this blog (and I know there are many), is this what you want for representation of your product?
ReplyDeleteHey JF. I would think if any suppliers are reading your blog they probably think you and your old hens are a couple of frys short of a happy meal. You appear to be full of anxiety and desperation.
Hey JF. I would think if any suppliers are reading your blog they probably think you and your old hens are a couple of frys short of a happy meal. You appear to be full of anxiety and desperation.
ReplyDeleteFINALLY, Tom Coleman speaks of something he knows--the quantity of fries which are supposed to accompany a happy meal!
john said, "It is about the perks."
ReplyDeleteYou are repeating yourself. I'll do the same.
Quote from US Department of Labor regarding the reason some traditional travel agents join the industry.
"Travel benefits, such as reduced rates for transportation
and lodging, attract people to this occupation."
I repeat, "Travel benefits, such as reduced rates for transportation
ReplyDeleteand lodging, attract people to this occupation."
Yes but the difference is "real" agents actually sell travel and service the clients in order to "earn" those benefits. I know earning something is hard to swallow..but we wouldn't complain if the MLM's actually WORKED for these benefits. Operating a website does not qualify.
ReplyDeleteTL said, "we wouldn't complain if the MLM's actually WORKED for these benefits. Operating a website does not qualify."
ReplyDeleteWhy would you even care about the travel MLM's? What are you afraid of?
I've noted a lot of fear on this blog from you folks. You use phrases such as, "I'm not scared..." (JF used that term recently). "I'm not afraid..." I'm not worried..."
By using those words and phrases, you reveal what is inside you.
If you really want to win the fight against the travel MLM's you don't set up a blog to argue your point. It's just entertainment and fun. No one takes it seriously. One who is serious would quietly go about his business and not reveal his war strategies to the enemy.
Another point. This blog won't last long if it goes on the way it does. It's akin to the TV writers strike. All we get here is reruns and the same old song. Not much new and exciting from topic to topic. It's turned into a groupies blog.
Well I hear a lot from Res Agents at the various Vendors - and the HATE working with YTB Agents. "They know nothing!" "They do nothing but take up out time!" Etc....
ReplyDeleteI though this was a very nice and respecful post at Doug and Rhonda's blog.
ReplyDeleteTuesday, December 18, 2007
How To "Spin" a FAM...
I've gotten plenty of calls, e-mails, and a few comments on my Blog about John Frenaye's latest posts with claims that YTB is all about industry perks. While I can understand why he's upset about this, and to a point he's rightfully upset with us about this issue. It's been a closely guarded secret in the industry for decades and for a company like YTB to announce to the world how the industry works is upsetting.
He's even gone as far as directing us to a couple of presentations (found here and here) that explain how FAM's work and what we as "Insiders" can take advantage of. While I personally don't use these presentations, I've known about them for quite some time and I've even had them forwarded to me on several occasions for my review.
I'm going to attempt to be as far and as partial as I can about this issue because I happen to like John and we've developed a good rapport even if our introductions to each other were on totally opposite sides. I also happen to believe that to a certain extent he has a right to be upset. What we are exposing as a company has been closely guarded by the Traditional Industry and it's very unsettling to have anyone divulge insider secrets such as these.
I also believe his positioning that YTB and these presentations about the FAM's and perks are highly exaggerated. In both presentations, the presenters express what FAM's are which are as follows:
"Many resort areas, cities, tourism boards, properties and vendors offer deeply discounted trips to Travel Agents to Familiarize them with their location. These trips are offered as “Perks and Courtesies” to Travel Professionals at the sole discretion of the host and are usually limited in availability."
In both presentations, the presenter clearly states, (as I do) that these same properties do this in hopes that you will refer your friends and family to these properties. One of the presenters also went as far (as I do) that these same properties will not kick out a full paying fair just to put YOU in at half price, but if space is available, these properties would much rather get something rather than nothing by letting you as a Travel Professional stay at a reduced rate.
Both presentations present FAM's as an "Industry Tool" to familiarize yourself with the property so we can talk intelligently to clients about the property. One of the Presentations done by James Prewitt (Level 3 Director and one of the GROWING number of Circle of Champions with YTB) even points out YTB actually sells Carnival Cruises, earning their Pinnacle Award the last 3 years in a row.
John's statement concerning both Presentations that "YTB is selling them as if they are a guarantee." is simply his perception, and clearly false. (Sorry John.)
I stated in a previous post last week, that it's clear that John's issue about discounting is not solely YTB's. It was noted in an this article that Mr. Kelly with MyCruiseBookings.com did a little ghost-shopping of his critics posing as a prospective client with an offer from another agency for a discounted cruise, and in every case these agencies were willing to offer a 10% discount. I've been to enough seminars and supplier trainings to know that this is a HUGE problem for suppliers, and it's not limited to just YTB.
John and others also need to keep in mind that the $226 Million in Travel Sales was gleaned from the same suppliers he's now trying to pitch with his new found documentation. While his numbers don't jive with what he finds from us concerning the SEC filings, these same suppliers and vendors numbers don't jive with what he's trying to tell them about all the "FAM's" YTB actually takes advantage of.
John and the other Travel Agents out there that are reading this Blog, I'm going to try to appeal to you as a business owner and as someone who understands big business. It's not about FAM's, it's about volume. I'm not saying that we don't need to concern ourselves (YTB) with the way these FAM's are being presented, because I DO understand your concerns, and I do believe that less emphasis needs to be placed on the industry perks and more about running a Travel Business. It a valid, noble, and very ethical point.
I want to direct you to the middle of Johns commentary and a question poised to the vendors.
"Does Carnival tell its employees that they can take a 50% discount at WalMart? Does Collette Vacations market their product and offer a discount on Hallmark Cards? Do Apple Vacations, NCL, and the others dictate the level of discounts for OTHER companies? Hell no! So why are you allowing it now?"
Now, I want to direct you to a new program YTB has with Sprint, Staples, Dell, and Tom Tom. It's called the "RTA Advantage". Based on YTB's shear size of 136,000 RTA's these companies are offering us discounts of anywhere from 10% to 29% off services they offer. Based on your reasoning that YTB is costing vendors money by offering us Top Commissions why would a company like Sprint offer up to a 29% discount if it's going to cost them money?
The same reasoning should apply to them as well shouldn't it? Should Sprint, Dell, Staples and Tom Tom cut YTB off based on the fact that it costs them money to do business with us? Why sell at a 10% to 29% discount to YTB when you have a gazillion other people in the market using Sprint, Staples, Dell and Tom Tom paying full price?
Before I divulge the answer to this question, I'd like to hear some of your responses. I'd like to know just how and why this practice from any supplier, (Travel or Otherwise) is just bad business costing them money.
Should be interesting...
Subscribe to Just Picture It Now for additional announcements and details!
Doug & Ronda Bauknight
AKA: TravelPro
"But, read this post, check out the website, and look at the presentation and then tell me that they are about selling travel. It is about the perks. It is about tax savings. It is about recruiting more people into the pyramid."
ReplyDeleteWould it make sense to conduct travel training to a group that is not in the business? The travel training comes after one is a RTA. Once again, the presentations are what is known as marketing. Some of the attractions to the travel industry are the perks, discounts, and tax deductions. The attraction of marketing YTB is the commissions, bonuses, profit sharing, residuals and health insurance. When GM advertises, or markets, their products, do they tell you how many vehicles were recalled in the last five years, the average yearly cost for maintenance, the inevitable depreciation starting when the vehicle is driven off the lot, that your car will always be worth less than what you owe, that it is an ongoing expense with absoultely no hope of a return on the investment, or how many fatalities involved GM products? Of course not -- they sell the benefits of owning their product -- the prestige, value for your dollar, the peace of mind that comes with the warranty (that runs out the week before a major breakdown). The fact is, some Chevys run forever, some breakdown regularly. Consumers can research, and talk to Chevy owners about their level of satisfaction. Similarly, anyone considering YTB is encouraged to research, and talk to someone in it and ask what is has done for them -- how having a home-based business has afforded a tax refund otherwise not possible, how it has helped them meet their needs or reach their goals, and how it has improved their lives overall.
"From there, he launches into the FAM opportunities and quite honestly presents them as discounted vacations which they are not!
Look again. He illustrates the retail cost, the commission earned if booked on your website, and what the FAM rate is -- and if you take that FAM, the percentage cost less than retail. Not everyone is going to join YTB, not everyone that joins does so for the FAMs, and not all that join are going to take a FAM. You are trying to make it sound as if 136,000 people are taking FAMs every day. If we buy into your argument that no one is making any money in YTB, then who can afford even the FAM rates anyway? Besides, FAMs are subject to availability, and the rates cover the costs -- which means that the vendor would rather have someone occupying that space at no cost to it, rather than having it vacant, with the expectaion the the agent will recommend the product/destination to his/her clients -- in effect, word-of-mouth advertising, at no cost.... which brings us back to the YTB principle. It doesn't cost YTB anything to put the wesites out there, since the cost is covered by the RTA. YTB doesn't come out of pocket to pay the Reps, because the Reps are paid commissions from the set-up fees charged to the RTAs, and a residual from the monthly maintenance fee. The more websites that are out there, which cost nothing to YTB, and are distributed via word-of-mouth, the more travel will be sold.
"...YTB has signed up 136,000 people to date on the promises that they will travel for free or close to it."
I have never seen or heard in any YTB presentation, including the ones you linked, the words 'free' and 'travel' in the same sentence.
"Does Carnival tell its employees that they can take a 50% discount at WalMart? Does Collette Vacations market their product and offer a discount on Hallmark Cards? Do Apple Vacations, NCL, and the others dictate the level of discounts for OTHER companies? Hell no! So why are you allowing it now?"
I really don't know how you are getting this from the presentations. YTB does not 'dictate' the level of discounts the suppliers offer. The FAMs shown are examples of what those particular FAMs cost compared to retail, and illustrate the broad scope of FAMs available -- different people like different things. Here are some examples of great mediterranean FAMs that were emailed to me today, and all that is needed is a CLIA card: http://www.mymedvacations.com/
YTB didn't set these rates, the vendor did. RTAs do, however, get discounts from Sprint, Dell, Staples, and Tom Tom ... these companies offered the discounts to YTB's RTAs -- YTB did not dictate them.
"You can offer the perks and benefits--but that is all they are. YTB is selling them as if they are a guarantee. And when you offer them, you are setting a really dangerous precedent. I cannot tell my clients to call you direct and get a 50% discount. Why are the rules different?
You can, and should, tell your clients that, if your clients worked for you and could bring in future bookings for you.
You guys are paying top commissions and your "agent" is selling your perks. So, I ask the following vendors (with their commission levels)...is it worth it to you?
The vendors pay commission on retail sales, not FAMs and perks.
Besides, how many RTAs have taken FAMs or enjoyed perks? The only real numbers we have is from Perillo, who says that 90% of his YTB bookings were for RTAs. Later, we find out that he has only had 20 YTB bookings in the six months he reviewed, which means that the 18 RTAs that went on his FAMs can not now or ever book a client with Perillo, despite their (the RTA's)satisfaction with his product/service, and he will never generate a profit from the goodwill extended by the FAM (which cost him nothing).
"Well I hear a lot from Res Agents at the various Vendors - and the HATE working with YTB Agents. "They know nothing!" "They do nothing but take up out time!" Etc...."
ReplyDeleteI'm sure the Res Agents are telling you what you want to hear. And when you call them, do you take up their time? Why would you call a Res Agent and talk about YTB?
I NEVER take up their time. I tell them what I want, I'm ready with the passengers' legal names, I re-cap the fares to them, the deposit dates/amounts, and final payment date. I write down the booking number, say "thank you" and then wait to receive my e-mail confirmation.
ReplyDeleteI am not there asking questions which should have been part of my research and/or training. No questions like: "what do you mean which seating would they like", "is that cabin near an elevator", "how many people can fit in that cabin". NEVER do I ask the kinds of quetions they report they get from YTB "Agents". NEVER does a cruise booking take more than 10 minutes.
Res. Agents are there to take the reservation, not teach you about the product.
Doug -
ReplyDeleteYou are a Gentleman and a fine American, but you are rare and in the minority in your organization. Almost all the YouTube videos that have been cited here (and since taken down by assumingly a request of the YTB Home Offie) tout the "travel for free" (or almost free) angle. I am fairly certain there are still hundreds up there.
I worked a Bridal Show (admitedly a year and a half ago) and a YTB "agency" showed up supposedly to see Honeymoons - they were selling memberships only. And telling Brides to stay away from Travel Agents - telling them they could book their own Honeymoons and earn a commission on that ... you know, travel at a discount..... Just what a busy Bride needs to do - spend hours booking her own Honeymoon on top of everything else. I actually got several dozen bookings out of that show - Brides who said they subsequently went to a YTB meeting and were very disappointed - they hadn't wanted to become Travel Agents - they really didn't want to sell websites, they wanted to find one to book their Honeymoons!
FAM trips are not some dirty little secret and never were. It is essential to learn the product you are selling and the only way to learn it is to go. FAM trips are not discounted stays - they are planning in and of themselves. TravelAgent rates (at a hotel or for a rental car) are an entirely different story.
Hey Anonymous.... I am a supplier - and I read this blog on a daily basis.
ReplyDeleteWatch Us Grow...
ReplyDeleteI am a res agent at a supplier/consolidator. I would be happy to go on and on about the YTB agents that we speak to on a daily basis who have no idea what country their destination is in, what KL is as an airline code and what a net fare is. We even had a YTB agent call in and argue with one of our agents that she was SURE Budacrest was a city in Europe. Yes, she said Budacrest. We spend more time training the YTB agents than we do actually selling them travel. It is extremely annoying. When I get a legitimate agent on the phone, I am relieved and happy to help them out. We try to have a positive attitude when we pick up the phone, but we can also only speak from our own experiences and dealing with YTB so far has been a major headache.
I have heard that the RCCL Res Agents in Miami cheered - actually cheered - when they were told they were not take bookings from YTB Agents (and a few others)! I mean they make some of their money on volume and don't even want to deal with these people! I'm glad to see some Vendors (even anonymous ones) confirm this to us!
ReplyDeleteLET ME BUILD YOUR NEXT B&M TRAVEL AGENCY
ReplyDeleteOur turn key agencies are totally fox proof..
Our structures can accomodate up to 4 travel agents.
They are supplied with an egg laying box and a fully enclosed roosting perch. One end has a lifting handle and the other has 2 wheels for easy manoeuvrability.
http://www.geocities.com/happyhenhouse/Happy_Hen_Houses.html
To Doug--Staples, Dell, etc. are seeing a benefit from you and the 136,000 RTAs. They are selling product. They are selling a product with a significant mark up, so a discount like that is not as critical as it is in travel. However, if you decided to pass this discount along to the people that are buying travel from YTB, I bet they would have an issue with it.
ReplyDeleteTo the supplier that is here---please ask more of your type to check in!
You know, I don't mean to be anonymous. My name is there for people to see - I just don't think where I work is important. It is important that I am a vendor/supplier. I am in the travel industry and I have been so for about 10 years.
ReplyDeleteIf it is important to someone, I will tell John and he can verify the company.
Andrew---if you were referencing my comment, I apologize for the confusion. I was too lazy to scroll up and look for the name. And I agree, no need to disclose where you work, but if you agree (or even if you don't) with the position of this blog, please pass the word along. I think we need more suppliers (either in or out of the closet) taking notice
ReplyDeleteDoug--this was anonymous who posted this, I was confused:
ReplyDeleteNow, I want to direct you to a new program YTB has with Sprint, Staples, Dell, and Tom Tom. It's called the "RTA Advantage". Based on YTB's shear size of 136,000 RTA's these companies are offering us discounts of anywhere from 10% to 29% off services they offer.
As I mentioned, there is more mark up in Sprint, Staples, Tom Tom and Dell than there ever was or will be in travel. This is a perk extended to YTB. That is great.
But how do you feel if all of a sudden those discounts decrease because us travel agents are going to Dell and saying we are RTAs and want 29% off their computers? Might that piss you off?
What does Dell say when they learn that you are selling the perk they intended for you to your customers? Isn't that what you are doing? You have added ZERO to the equation and are now going to use this as a reason to join. Hey, even if you never sell travel, think of the tax breaks and the discounts you get from Dell and Staples and Sprint--everyone has a computer, cell phone and uses pencils....
The perk was intended for you. An RTA that is working whatever the business it is you are working. It was not intended for you to sell to your customers.
FAM and discounted travel was intended as a perk to people selling travel. NOt intended to be sold to the clients. And with YTB, you are not selling travel, you are selling the program.
Sometimes when I am on the phone with a res agent, taking care of business, doing what I need to do, they will say, as they're doing the booking "What is your IATA number" and I tell them, all the while wondering if deep inside they're keying in the number and saying to themselves, "thank God it's not another YTB'er" so while I'm thinking this, I do say to them "Don't worry, I'm not with YTB" and they just chuckle at me. We share a laugh and move on. I don't mention it on every call, but yes, I have, in passing, mentioned it. If nothing else, it's to communicate and let them know that I know what is going on in the travel business. It's a way of connecting with another professional so I see no harm in giving it a 5 second mention.
ReplyDeleteI also, whenever I get a US based resv agent at either the airlines or travel supplier in general, tell them how glad I am that they are located in the good ole USA. They then loosen up with me and know they are valued. They can't usually say much because their phone calls are monitored by their management, but I can sure say almost anything I want to say and you can bet that I HOPE that the calls get monitored when I'm on so that hopefully the message will get across to management that we, as professional travel agents are displeased with the way things are going or have gone over the past few years both with MLM'ers as well as their companies outsourcing their calls to less experienced reservation agents.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts Andrew. We're glad you're here.
Anonymous wrote:
ReplyDelete"Why would you even care about the travel MLM's? What are you afraid of? "
As a travel professional I am not afraid of YTB. I am upset because the majority of YTB agents taint the travel business by their aggressive recruiting practices at trade shows, bridal fairs and other events that are NOT areas where they should be recruiting especially at Bridal Fairs and other trade shows when YTB stands in the aisle without paying for a booth. This is unethical. I have witnessed YTB agents aggressively recruiting on a cruise I was on. This is NOT the place either. The majority of YTB agents are not in it to sell travel or to service customers. They are in it to make a buck, travel for free or reduced rate or get a tax break. Afraid? Hardly! Mad? Yes, that YTB does not have any concern for the travel business or love it like the majority of travel agents I know.
INMATES AS TRAVEL AGENTS?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4u9IdX8G1A
That is fascinating and a fantastic idea. Although the title is misleading--it is inmates as tourist board call center people.
ReplyDeleteThey are not booking travel, not taking any financial information from the callers and as I see it are receiving a LOT more training than the average MLM agent.
Thanks for posting this.
And the reporter is David Letterman's wife!
"Sometimes when I am on the phone with a res agent, taking care of business, doing what I need to do, they will say, as they're doing the booking "What is your IATA number" and I tell them, all the while wondering if deep inside they're keying in the number and saying to themselves, "thank God it's not another YTB'er" so while I'm thinking this, I do say to them "Don't worry, I'm not with YTB" and they just chuckle at me. We share a laugh and move on. I don't mention it on every call, but yes, I have, in passing, mentioned it. If nothing else, it's to communicate and let them know that I know what is going on in the travel business. It's a way of connecting with another professional so I see no harm in giving it a 5 second mention."
ReplyDeleteI laughed at this, only because I do tech support, and when people call that sound over the age of 50, I groan to myself. When people call in that seem to know a little more about computers, we joke about the people from the stone-age and their inability to do simple things, like typing into the search window instead of the address bar. I guess every job has stereotypes :)
"when people call that sound over the age of 50, I groan to myself"
ReplyDeleteGarsh LMNOP your insulting most of those B&M travel agent ladies out there. Have a heart.
Join Traveras...NOT YTB! Can't we have a little bit of attention and spot light for once!
ReplyDeleteI have a college buddy that joined YTB the same time I joined Traveras. Interestingly, we went to both meetings to compare, but unlike my friend, I wasn't able to go tour the Corp. HQ and meet the Staff and Founders. From what I understand, getting an inside view of the operation is a must see.
Wow, their RTA growth is phenominal. Since all the hoopla and focus on YTB (which it seems most anti Travel MLM blogs are these days), they're attracting RTAs left and right. YTB has skyrocketed. It's amazing what a little negative press can do.
I want some of that!
Presely:
ReplyDeleteThere isn’t much to see at TraVerus…it’s a handful of people in a back office of a strip mall suite from what I understand. Of course, YTB once had a couple people in a single office on the third floor of a bank for the first year as well.
Suppliers and Agents,
I do three way calls all the time for my Team Members who need to book directly with a supplier. I have my new RTA on the phone with me when calling suppliers for them. I tell a supplier right off the bat that I’m an “Outside Agent with YTB” and I’m very proud to tell them that. I’m also the one asking the pointed questions such as deposit dates, final payments, insurance options, and confirmation numbers. (We have a “cheat sheet” with all this information in our back office by the way.) As an experience RTA in YTB that’s what I do to help train my team what to do. Many of my Team are less than 12 to 6 months old in this business and do not have the type of experience I do when dealing with vendors. I’m more than happy to walk them through, while they write down the information supplied and do most of the “work” and “research”.
Funny thing is…my Upline did the same for me back in the day.
I have one Team Member who I walked through like this a year or so ago, and has since booked 2 more large groups since all by himself. The most recent group was switch from RCCL over to Princess however due to RCCL not wanted his group business simply because they believe he’s clueless and they don’t like his business model. His first group was 54 passengers; this one is closer to 100.
Andrew;
Question for you…
Are these YTB’ers calling you for a FAM or for a Booking?
I would think a "Traveras" member would know that it is "Traverus" - but don't worry, you'll get yours soon enough.
ReplyDeleteMost CTAs worked hard to gain that accreditation and then Traverus goes and "gives" it to the unqualified as soon as they join - The Travel Institute will be catching up to you at some point - fraudulent CTAs..... Was that meant to confuse the consumer or misrepresent yourselves to the consumer?
Who are the big 5 of travel MLM's? How many members does each have?
ReplyDelete1. YTB
2. Traverus
3. World Ventures
4?
5?
TravelPro - I have spoken to many, many YTB agents in the past year and have never been on a three way call with any of them. I have, however, spent quite a bit of time explaining how things work to people who should be trained, at least on a basic level, before they come to me. City codes, airline codes and basic routings are all something that can be Googled. I even called YTB HQ once to ask about training and got the same response you post on here.... the training is available and YTB cannot force people to take it.
ReplyDeleteDon't get me wrong, I book some strange destinations and I am happy to go over some of the difficult itineraries with the agents who call in whether they are YTB or ARC agents.
Also, we are not the type of vendor/supplier that offers FAMS, so no, we don't get requests for that. We do sigh collectively when a YTB agent calls in because, unfortunately for our experience, we expect the bookings to be a ton of work and not worth the profit.
For now, though, we take all callers.
Andrew;
ReplyDeleteThanks for the clarification. I have to admit that I will get a call or e-mail from someone in YTB and think to myself, “How in the world could you not know that?!”
I also remember when I worked as a Regional for a Home Automation Company and dealt with Electricians. They would ask questions that they should already know but used me as their resource because “That’s my job!” Very frustrating and all I could do was smile and say “I’d be happy too.” All the while thinking of various expletives.
The Home Office is correct, they have some incredible resources in regards to training, and we have some wonderful suppliers who have been very gracious in helping us learn about core products and services. Those that take advantage of what is offered are quite successful, and those that don’t, they usually end up on some message board complaining that the company is a scam.
While they are also correct that we can not force them, we are looking at incentives for them to do so.
"The Home Office is correct, they have some incredible resources in regards to training, and we have some wonderful suppliers who have been very gracious in helping us learn about core products and services. Those that take advantage of what is offered are quite successful, and those that don’t, they usually end up on some message board complaining that the company is a scam."
ReplyDeleteThis is one point I was trying to state all along. Now that someone else said it, maybe it will be heard. YTB DOES have a vast amount of extensive training resources. Those who want to be successful, (like myself) will and do take every course that is available to them. These are the people who will profit from the travel market, because they are the ones who will know how to properly go about dealing directly with the suppliers. Those who don't... well, they eventually will drop out, because they won't be making a profit.
When I first started YTB, I started off with travel... making sure I know the business before I went out to start "recruiting". I found it a lot easier to get the right people into the business when you know how he business operates. I can honestly say that majority of the people in my downline are taking the training that's offered. My upline made sure that I did... therefore I do the same with my downline. Together, we have one of the greatest travel sales force in YTB. Aside from the "presentation meetings", we have set up a few travel training meetings in various towns. We teach what we know, and we also point out exactly where various training courses are available right from our back office.
It all comes down to...
Promote it like a click & order = profits questionable
Work it like a business = profit
Work it like a busness and become well trained to deal directly with vendors (especially when dealing with niche groups = greater profit
... and I state this to my RTAs who work in my downline. Keep in mind that they DO NOT work under me. They are NOT my employees. They are associates.
Proud---you are correct. Microsoft also offers a world of training but I am not allowed to call myself a Microsoft expert without taking them.
ReplyDeleteTaking it a bit more in context. I dare you to promote yourself as a Disney Expert and see how long it takes you to get shut down. You may have been to Disney a zillion times, but as a travel agent, until you take the DCK curriculum, you are not allowed to call yourself a Disney specialist.
Traditional Travel Agents are protecting their "brand". That's all. Now if you can show me 136,000 RTAs that have taken your training class, we will likely have a different conversation. BUt most do not. ANd most of the ones that do are doing only so they can upgrade a credential. Few are serious about travel. AGain, the majority were sold on the perks and the tax benefits of working from home.
Yes, yes, YES! Finally! The recognition that letting loose a huge number of untrained affiliates on the industry does YTB no good, or the industry in general!! THIS is the point! You can't call yourself a travel agent, referring or otherwise, without some controls!
ReplyDeleteProud and travelpro, YOU may be working the business right, but there are masses out there that aren't, and unless YTB and other MLMs get those masses under control, you are going to continue to have issues with the traditional agent models. You can't be signing people up willy-nilly without requiring that they get basic training in how to conduct business in this industry. You can't have people signing up just so they can get a rebate on their personal travel. You are not going to get the respect of the industry just by saying "We're the biggest".
QUALITY, people, not QUANTITY.
Guess what Proud and TravelPro - you absolutely CAN force them to take part in training. It's very simple, you can not maintain your membership unless you take courses in X, Y, and Z during the course of the year. YTB can mandate 1 to however many of these classes they want - they just don't want to, because they will see a decline in funds (because of a decline in the numbers paying monthly fees and a decline in recruiting) if they mandate this. It seems very clear that for the Home Office it is all about Quantity, not Quality and about recruiting not selling travel.
ReplyDeleteEVERY SINGLE B&M (3) I've worked for has mandated that I receive training - at the one I am at now, they equates to about 1 training a month in either product or other areas pertinent to the business.
Actually John, Disney DOES give us training as well. Have you seen any YTB RTAs at Disney University? Well, we are there... so yes, AFTER those courses, we CAN say that we are Disney experts. I cannot yet, because i have not taken the courses yet. I can say that I am a cruise specialist, because I have completed many CLIA trainings which earned me many points on my CLIA Card. I am still taking CLIA courses, because I want to take them all.
ReplyDeleteFor the record, I didn't get into YTB for the perks. There are many who aldo haven't. I got in because I travel, and I know many people who travel. It's great to receive a commission check! It's also great to get paid for bringing others into the business. If FAM trips were completely taken away from YTB, I'd still be here! I have not yet taken FAM trip... which again, I say IS controlled by the vendors... NOT YTB. I did, however conduct property inspections with the managers while at a hotel/resort. I worked my business... and still paid full price! The difference between taking a FAM trip and paying full price is that by paying full price, I got a commission.
Proud -
ReplyDeleteYou still don't get it - a FAM is not a "net" price on a package/vacation/cruise - a FAM is usually FREE or close to it.
BTW what do you think of all RTAs being required to take training in order to remain with YTB - why ignore that?
I think it would be a great idea, because the untrained ones won't give us trained ons a bad name. Let me also state that having an ID card alone doesn't open up doors to many FAM trips. I think that there are only 2 or 3 that are... and from what I saw, they aren't spectacular FAM trips either. Passing CRTA training doesn't change that either. It isn't until an CRTA starts completing CLIA courses (which the CRTA pays for) and earns the CLIA card does the FAM trip door open up to more spectacular FAM trips. At presentations I give... as well as attend (when I have a downline RTA bringing a guest), we emphasize this... and all presenters should do the same.
ReplyDeleteI just wanted to make sure everyone is clear on that.
Free FAMs??? I never saw them at YTB.
ReplyDeleteA FAM trip is anywhere between 40% and 80% cheaper than retail (as dictated by the suppliers not YTB)
Was this the thread where someone said that as a YTB person they were making 36,000. a month? Ha What a load of hooey. Make 36,000 a month and spend all one's time on a blog? Too sad to be true.
ReplyDeleteHey! Can I say I make 200,000. a month? Why not.....
"Free FAMs??? I never saw them at YTB.
ReplyDeleteA FAM trip is anywhere between 40% and 80% cheaper than retail (as dictated by the suppliers not YTB)"
Let me say this again so that you will get it - what you decribe is not a FAM. You ar describing a vacation, tour, or cruise at a Group Rate or at a net rate or at a discounted rate. A FAM is not a regularly scheduled departure that is bought at a discount as above. A FAM is a trip designed SOLELY for Travel Agent and the most I've ever paid for one is $249 - several have been entirely FREE - the last one of those was six nights spread out at Caneel, Peter Island and Little Dix Bay. Why do you think it was FREE? It was free because I am a professional Travel Agent, a Travel Institute CTA (the real thing, not Traverus) and not an RTA or a CRTA - meaningless designations.
Oh and generally, FAMs do not allow you to bring your spouse, sibling, and/or children along. It is work, almost all day, every day - it is not a vacation.
ReplyDeleteAFTER those courses, we CAN say that we are Disney experts.
ReplyDeleteActually, you can't. The College of Disney Knowledge does NOT certify you as a Disney expert ... and Disney FORBIDS you from claiming to be a specialist or certified in anyway regarding Disney.
Exactly, you can say that you are a "Graduate of the College of Disney Knowledge" and that's it. I know they've taken some Agencies to court for having "Disney Expert" on their websites.....
ReplyDeleteYou have to telegraph that you are an "expert" by the name you give the Agency.... like "World of Disney Travel" or something like that..... (And even that, I think is not quite allowed......)
I understand what FAM trip is. I even posted that I understand what a FAM trip is. I also included some guidelines stated from my back office regarding the regulations of FAM trips.
ReplyDeleteI understand what FAM trip is.
ReplyDeleteA FAM trip is anywhere between 40% and 80% cheaper than retail (as dictated by the suppliers not YTB)
Apparently not!
Still doesn't get it and refuses to.
ReplyDeleteYou apparently have no idea what a FAM is.
What you KNOW is that YTB tells you a discounted package or a net rate package or a group rate cruise is a FAM - but that is NOT what a FAM is.