Monday, November 17, 2008

Latest YTB Financials



The 3rd quarter 10-Q has been posted. Let's look at some of the numbers.

First up, the number of RTAs. The second quarter showed a loss of 7,242 RTAs, or 5.2% of the RTA sales force. The third quarter continued this downtrend and even accelerated it. In the third quarter, the net loss of RTAs was 16,958 or 12.9% of the already reduced number of RTAs. The number of deactivations was fairly constant from quarter to quarter, 30,638 in the second quarter to 32,815 in the third quarter. However, the number of new sign-ups dropped dramatically from 23,396 to 15,857.

Next, lets look at sales revenue. Online travel store sales and monthly fees for the 3rd quarter were $30,473,409, vs. $33,354,064 in the 2nd quarter. Actual travel commissions in the 3rd quarter were $8,014,502 vs. $8,819,817 in the 2nd. Both of these continue the downward trend.

There is a bit of good news. For the 3rd quarter, YTB had a net income of $287,999 vs. a net loss of $(199,577) in the 2nd quarter.

Other notes are not so good. Remember the plane that was purchased in February for a price of $1.3 million. Apparently that wasn't such a good idea after all, as the company decided in August to sell it for $900K, a loss of $400K.

Also noted were the lawsuits that have already been discussed at length.

Finally, it was noted that YTB is selling property that was purchased a little over a year ago, also at a loss. This was the subject of a prior blog post.

So, what to make of all this. Honestly, it is not a bad as I expected it would be, but it isn't good. While YTB barely managed to eek out a profit for the quarter, the decline in RTAs cannot be considered a good thing. If this rate of decline continues, the number of RTAs will likely drop below 100,000 by the end of the year. This could actually be a good thing for the company as a whole, but a bad thing for the individuals. Why is that? In order to remain a Director and collect Director bonuses, you have to maintain a certain number of RTAs in your organization. As the number of RTAs shrinks, the less bonuses that will need to be paid out. On the other hand, as people start to lose their Director status, that will make recruiting new RTAs and REPs even more difficult, which eventually leads to the sinking ship.

Apparently the Officers and Board members understand this. They note in the latest 10-Q,

"Management has taken several actions to ensure that the Company will continue as a going concern. Management has instituted a cost reduction program that included a reduction in labor and fringe costs, as well as reductions of discretionary expenditures in the operating structure of the organization. In addition, the Company has instituted more efficient management techniques through better utilization of technology. The Company is also evaluating the sale of certain non-core assets and raising new capital for future operations. Management believes these factors will contribute toward achieving profitability. However, there can be no assurance that the Company will be successful in achieving its objectives."

There was no mention of any worry about continuing as a"going concern" in previous 10-Q reports. In case you aren't familiar with accounting and stock reporting documents, a "going concern" clause is very significant, especially when issued by the company's auditors in an annual report. We've got 3 more months to wait for that.

Coming up near the end of the month, the company's responses to the two class-action lawsuits are due to the judge. That should prove interesting.

Also, if the company continues to need additional cash, they won't have their sweetheart bank to fall back on anymore, as on October 10th, Meridian Bank was taken over by the FDIC. That annual report should be an interesting read.

I only wish that Traverus, World Ventures, and the others were publicly traded companies so I could give them equal time.



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101 comments:

  1. Completely the opposite of the truth. Expected. Go read Just Picture It Now. Doug has the real analysis. And you all ought to take credence from Doug who is a BUSINESS MAN not just a travel agent scared for their lives

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  2. Doug has the real analysis. Doug is a business man! LMAO! Doug is a professional mlmer not a businessman. Check the court records on his business and personal finances. Public record you know. LMAO!

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  3. I am curious.....how are the figures and the statements taken directly from the 10K "the opposite of the truth"??? Would you care to explain item by item, what exactly and in detail is NOT the truth in the blog post today????

    Doug is a businessman??? Since when??? What is Doug's resume, experience and work history as a businessman exactly? Care to provide those details to back up your claim as well??? Doug is a SpinMaster, I will gtive you that. lol

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  4. The numbers are the numbers. It is the anaysis that is different. You see the numbers as bad, I choose to see them as positive and a sign that YTB is a travel company to be feared. Doug was a very successful businessman before he came to YTB and you can see just how succesful he is from how well he has done in YTB. He is a Coach's COrner member, and received an award at the convention.

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  5. You know its funny..... Dougie comments on people thinking Coach doesn't know how to manage money....

    Coach and his Cronies owned the office building for about a year - with a loss of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

    Coach and his Cronies owned the jet for less than a year - with a loss of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

    Coach and his cronies tried to do an aquisition that failed with a loss of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

    Coach and his cronies tried to book two cruises, but couldn't sell them with a loss of hundreds of thousands of dollars....

    But Dougie ignores all of the above...

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  6. You still have provided no arguement or specific details on how one can perceive anything in the 10K as positive? Why are you unable to do this?? And again, you have provided no specifics whatsoever as to Doug's "business" background. Hmmmm... if Doug is so successful, why is his wife still working full time and why hasn't Doug made Director in all these years? Care to explain that at least???

    We realize that Doug's opinion is different, he's delusional and blind to the truth, so that's nothing new. If YTB closed their doors tommorow, he would find a way to put a positive spin on it, I am sure! lol

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  7. Anonymous said...
    "The numbers are the numbers. It is the anaysis that is different. You see the numbers as bad, I choose to see them as positive and a sign that YTB is a travel company to be feared."

    I gotta tell you, that is one of the most ridiculous and b.s. statements that I have read on this Blog and there have been many put out by YTBers.....so congrads!! Fear??? Ummmmm no not fear, maybe revulsion though! ROTFL!

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  8. Anonymous, I said it before, and I'll say it again....the ONLY reason that a profit was shown this quarter is because "operating" cost were cut. In other words, to cut those operating costs, they had to lay off 25 people from the office staff in Wood River. If they continued to pay those 25 people, how much of a profit do you think would have been shown? And, look how much the "administrative" costs shot up, even with the laying off of 25 people. That's because of the legal costs of the lawsuits.

    Anonymous, look at the REVENUE section (that's the part where it shows how much money was brought in). From last quarter, the amount of money brought in from travel stores is DOWN. The amount of commissions paid is DOWN.

    Furthermore, if you read the entire report, not just what is shown on Yahoo Finance, you will see stated:

    While we have experienced a decrease in the actual number of stores sold for the three months ended September 30, 2008 to 15,857 from 38,032 in the prior year period, the revenue recognized actually increased due to the recognition of previously deferred new store sales from periods with higher volumes of new store sales. TRANSLATION: We held off reporting the sales from earlier quarters for a quarter that we knew would be down, to bolster our report and make it look better.

    We anticipate slower growth in the coming months compared to what we have experienced in the past. TRANSLATION: We ain't doing so good!

    Other income increased in the third quarter of 2008 as compared to 2007 by $590,203 or 52.7% to $1,710,802 from $1,120,599 in the comparable prior year quarter. The increase is primarily due to an increase in the number of paid attendees at the National Convention in 2008 as compared to the 2007 National Convention. TRANSLATION: We didn't make any money from selling travel, but we sure did gouge those people that attended the convention!


    And, as I said to FM, so what if the company as a whole made $287,999 for the quarter. Do you realize that that breaks down to an average earnings of $2.51 per accounted for RTA? I mean, come on. Over 114,000 "sales" people, and you're proud of the fact that they can only, on average, add $2.51 to the bottom line? And the real bottom line is, for YTD, the company as a whole is in the RED for $3,429,229. Red on a balance sheet is NOT a good thing.

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  9. "Anonymous said...

    Doug has the real analysis. Doug is a business man! LMAO! Doug is a professional mlmer not a businessman. Check the court records on his business and personal finances. Public record you know. LMAO!"

    LMAO! Go look up John Frenaye's court records and personal finances! Public record you know! Pay your bills instead of blogging all the time John!

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  10. Anyone want to place a bet that the ANON YTB poster is none other than dear little YesURALoser from the Scam YTB thread???

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  11. "YTB is a travel company to be feared. "

    According to the SEC filings YTB made the majority of money recruiting NOT in travel sales. So, how can you say this?


    "Doug was a very successful businessman before he came to YTB and you can see just how succesful he is from how well he has done in YTB."

    What did Doug do before YTB? Another MLM. That's all he knows. As to the director and award he is good at recruiting and selling bull S***. That's all.

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  12. When did Doug make Director???

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  13. "Anyone want to place a bet that the ANON YTB poster is none other than dear little YesURALoser from the Scam YTB thread???"

    Me thinks you are correct PIOTB! LOL! Stalking John again I see.

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  14. "When did Doug make Director???"

    Who knows if he is or not.

    He is NOT a businessman that's for sure. That's like saying I am a vet because I shove a pill down my dog's throat! Next thing you know anon is going to tell us Dougie graduate from Harvard Business School. LOL!

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  15. I am pretty sure that Doug is NOT a Director. And he sure as hell is no businessman either!

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  16. First, while this is John's blog, John did not write the YTB financial analysis post, I did. So go ahead and look up my financial info if you wish. I'm sure you will find them quite boring.

    Second, I've taken a look at Doug's post. His analysis is year over year, whereas most of my analysis is quarter to quarter. In 2007, YTB was still growing. In 2008, it is shrinking. However, the shrinking has not yet caught up to where they were in 2007. So, year over year analysis still shows marginal growth, though nowhere near what was being predicted by the YTB cheerleaders. Just wait a couple of more quarters and the year over year analysis won't be very pretty either, assuming the current downtrend holds form.

    Third, Doug's analysis conveniently ignores the negative issues of losing money on a plane that was owned for a mere 6 months, losing money on property owned for a little over a year, and other negative factors pointed out in the comments above.

    If the plan was to move into the wonderful new headquarters (which the 10-Q points out has had a construction slowdown to save cash), why did YTB decide to buy the old place rather than continue to lease it? There was apparently great rational for buying the plan in February. What changed by August that they decided to sell at a loss? It must have been something significant.

    The issue is that YTB needs to raise cash. Their bank was seized by the FDIC, so they can no longer get sweetheart loans from it. They realized that their investments in the property and plan were ill-timed at best, and decided to cut their losses. The sales are probably smart on their part. It was the purchases that were not.

    Fourth, I see no mention in Doug's post about the BoD being worried about YTB's ability to continue as a "going concern". That is a giant red flag in the financial world. Companies do not use that phrase lightly. To the BoD's credit, they state that they have taken steps to ensure that YTB does continue as a "going concern". We'll have to see what the independent auditor thinks when they go over the books for the Annual Report.

    Finally, if you read the post, I admitted that the 3rd quarter was not as bad as I expected. Do I get any credit for that?

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  17. Whats the ole teddy bear (according to Rod), know about travel....apparently he can't keep a job very long either.....

    In Home Specialist
    HiFi Buys
    (Retail industry)

    December 2003 — July 2006 (2 years 8 months)


    Regional Sales Manager
    iAutomate.com
    (Computer & Network Security industry)

    February 2001 — December 2003 (2 years 11 months)

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  18. Interesting....Doug only started working in 2001? Lucky guy!

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  19. Hey YTBSCAM, look up John in the court systems in Maryland!

    Business must not be so good for John either since he won't/can't pay his bills. But he sure has enough money to go on a cruise. Bet his debtors would love to hear about that in court.

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  20. That's all he cares to post about. I can imagine the other crap he has been in and isn't so joyous about posting that.

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  21. I thought this post was about the 10Q but now it seems to be turning to John and Doug, but mostly Doug.

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  22. "Finally, if you read the post, I admitted that the 3rd quarter was not as bad as I expected. Do I get any credit for that?"

    Yes you do Steve. But you are the rare exception to civility on this site. You are about the only one that can admit something like that. I will throw in that John did admit one that YTB took a "small step" in the right direction. Really rare coming from him.

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  23. Other interesting numbers from the 10-Q. In the last 9 months, stockholder equity (Assets minus Liabilities) has decreased by $1,673,021 or 9.7%. That's an annualized drop of about 13%.

    For all the minor gains made in Doug's year over year comparison, why did he leave out the fact that the General and Administrative expenses increase by over $6 Million or more than 50%? What is the main office doing with all that money?

    As for bleeding cash, as of 12/31/07, YTB had $4,467,221 in cash and cash equivalents. As of 9/30/08, they were down to $588,886. During the 3rd quarter alone, their cash dropped by $1141684. At that rate, if they don't do something, they'll run out of cash by the end of this quarter. Kind of explains the sale of property and plane, now doesn't it?

    Another interesting paragraph from the 10-Q is the following:

    "Deactivations of our RTAs’ online travel store in relation to the number of new online travel store sales (websites) during a specified period is a key component in the calculation performed to determine the average lifespan that an RTA remains with our Company. If the proportion of RTA deactivations were to grow as a percentage of active paying RTAs, the average lifespan of an RTA would decrease and vise versa. In the event of such a decrease, we
    would accelerate the time frame over which we recognize the income and offsetting expense, relating to the RTA initial sign up fees. This acceleration would have a positive impact on our bottom line, as the amount of revenue deferred from an RTA’s sign-up fees outweighs the offsetting deferred expense for commissions related to such sign-up. With no change in the commission structure, we expect the trend of revenues exceeding the related expenses to continue."

    In other words, we record the sign-up fee for travel store sales over a period of time in some way related to the average length of time travel stores remain open. If that average length of time falls enough, we will start booking as revenue more of that fee faster, which will help our bottom line in the near term. This begins to explain why they eked out a profit for the quarter, but saw their cash on hand drop so much. Cash previously received but not recorded, was recorded during this period due to a decrease in the average lifespan of a travel store site. Thus increasing the bottom line enough to show a small profit.

    Aren't accounting rules a wonderful thing?!

    The 10-Q said, "The weighted average of paying RTAs per month increased from 112,837 for the three months ended September 30, 2007 to 121,101 for the same period in 2008."

    The 10-Q didn't say, "The fact that the weighted average for this quarter is now much higher than the actual number of sites, we can only expect the weighted average for next quarter to fall, and thus for the revenue received to fall as well."

    Last, but not least, I see very little mention of actual travel sales figures in the latest 10-Q. Certainly nothing to back up claims made by others that YTB would sell $1 Billion in travel this year. My prediction is YTB won't even equal what they sold last year, which was under $.5 Billion.

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  24. Seriously, as we all know the net profit/loss for the quarter is somewhat of a meaningless thing. Cashflow is not tied to a magical quarter system.

    Lets face it, the single most important number to YTB is the number of RTAs. That is where almost all of their revenue comes from. And that number is nose diving....

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  25. "Last, but not least, I see very little mention of actual travel sales figures in the latest 10-Q. Certainly nothing to back up claims made by others that YTB would sell $1 Billion in travel this year. My prediction is YTB won't even equal what they sold last year, which was under $.5 Billion."

    Steve, you usually seem a bit more responsible than making predictions like this. I agree that they won't hit the billion dollar mark this year but do you really want to bank on not selling what they sold last year? Really?

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  26. Note that it is a prediction, not a wager. I'm not banking on anything.

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  27. "I thought this post was about the 10Q but now it seems to be turning to John and Doug, but mostly Doug."

    Firemedic, your fellow YTB friend anonymous the gutless wonder hiding behind that acronym fired the first shot and volley. No wonder it deteriorated rapidly. I swear you YTB people ALL have ADD. You can't stay on topic.

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  28. "I thought this post was about the 10Q but now it seems to be turning to John and Doug, but mostly Doug."

    Firemedic your anoymous friend from YTB who is too gutless to post something other than anoymous fired the first shot and volley. That is why it deteriorated. You people can't stay on topic to save your life. Is all of YTB filled with ADD people?

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  29. And for the number of RTA's the travel sales are pathetic. Most of the money again is made in recruiting....

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  30. Nearly identical posts by "Kit" and "AT". Hmmm...

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  31. firemedic said...
    I thought this post was about the 10Q but now it seems to be turning to John and Doug, but mostly Doug.


    Wow, something that FM and I can finally agree on. Of course, I stopped reading anything Dougie has to say 2 weeks ago when I realized that he had no compunction about throwing in a racial slur about someone in what was supposed to be a compliment. If he will use a racial slur about someone that is supposed to be a "friend", then do you really think anything he has to say has any merit?

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  32. "Nearly identical posts by "Kit" and "AT". Hmmm..."

    Yeah, they have the same MO, now the same words. Same person. This is the same person that one person on here would trust his life with. lol. I think it's the same person as Miss Kitty also. But hey.

    Ainsworth, what "racial slur"? And what makes you have more "merit" than he or anyone else on this blog? And did it really take a "racial slur" for you to stop reading any of his stuff? So are you saying you haven't read any of his stuff in two weeks?

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  33. "Note that it is a prediction, not a wager. I'm not banking on anything."

    LoL! Okay. I will make a prediction that it will definitely not be the billion dollar mark but definitely over last years. I will predict closer to the 600k mark. So we'll just have to see.

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  34. FM, there is a racial slur in Dougies blog post of November 4. I even copied the page and e-mailed it to myself, as well as made screen shots of it, since it has been proven by other ytbers that people can and will go back and change their postings. That was the day I quit reading his blog, and I haven't read it since.

    Up until that point, I used to give him sort of the "benefit of the doubt". I have spoken to Doug on the phone before, and he is a personable guy, but when I read what he wrote, that was it. As I said, anyone that would post a racial slur regarding someone he was supposedly praising should give one pause about everything else they have to say.

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  35. Oh, and FM....what makes what I have to say have any merit, maybe more than Doug? I don't use racial slurs when referring to someone else, that's what.

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  36. LOL! He’s must be talking about the word “Diva”.

    Which according to Webster refers to an Italian Opera Singer.

    According to Wikipedia, Paris Hilton is the Diva of Hollywood.

    To each his own I guess.

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  37. No, anonymous, not the word "Diva". I know what a "diva" is, and most people find that to be a compliment. You obviously also have no compunction in using this particular racial slur in regards to describing a person.

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  38. Well Ainsworth, you would have to point out what you thought was a racial slur. I know Doug well enough to know he's not a racist. But then go on and say that if someone automatically loses "merit" for saying one wrong (or perceived) wrong thing is just plain ..... Can you go on record with saying you have NEVER said something that could be perceived as racist whether or not it was intended that way? Can you go on record as having never said ANYTHING that would would cause you to lose "merit" for that matter. I don't think anyone in the world could do that. We all have something that would bite us in the butt.

    And what about this changing the posts bit? "since it has been proven by other ytbers that people can and will go back and change their postings."

    Just YTBers? LOL! John made some major changes to his YTB paying off CLIA post. He insinuated it and John Smith did not take kindly to it. John F. then changed it.

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  39. Oh, and for the record, I don't, nor do I think Doug does, care whether or not you read his blog.

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  40. I remember that slur, and agree it was completely uncalled for - reminded me of Archie Bunker, and not in a good way.

    I personally was hoping that most people had gotten past most of those stereotypes.

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  41. Sorry, with you being gay and all, I just thought…oh well.

    Must be the word “frugal” then as racial slur?

    Never mind Ainsworth. But it’s too bad, he slammed you pretty good about the $19k a month you quoted that YTB paid the 17 employees that were laid off. That’s the difference between you and Doug. He posts facts, figures, and documentation to dispel all the lies that you guys post over here.

    You on the other hand, get all bent out of shape over what you think is a racial slur.

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  42. Hmmmmm, telling that you can't seem to find it. I'm not about to post it here, because no, I don't make racist comments about people. Whether he typed it on purpose or accidentally is a moot point. It just goes to show that his mind DOES work that way, subconsciously, and that says a lot about a person.

    People in ytb that have blogs have been shown to change their blogs WAY more often than anyone else, a classic example being Travelling Mom. She changed her blog more times in one day that you can count on one hand.

    As for the things that I do and say, yes, I can go on record as saying that to the people that matter in my life, I have never said anything that has caused me to lose merit. Now, for those that make absolutly no difference to me, like you FM, I could care less if you think anything I have ever said has caused me to lose merit, because in your eyes, I've never had any. See, that's the difference. I used to think that some of what Doug said DID have merit. Not anymore.

    If you want to know what the racial slur is, you will have to give me some sort of way of contacting you via e-mail so that I can send it to you, because as I said, I'm not reposting that trash here.

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  43. Well, Joe, good to hear you say that. He tried to slip it in, thinking no one would notice it. I agree, I thought that this country had moved passed that kind of thing, especially since it was posted on a day where this country elected it's first mixed raced president.

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  44. And here comes Anonymous again, too afraid to even use a made up name. No, hon, it's not "frugal" either. And what does me being gay have to do with anything? I'm out and proud! You hide behind "Anonymous"! ROFL

    Yes, I am bent out of shape over a racial slur. Anyone with any common decency would be. It appears that since you aren't, you have none.

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  45. Ainsworth, feel free to email it to me at firemedic227 at gmail.

    Ainsworth, despite your comment about you never having "merit" in my eyes, you are wrong about me. I have told you in the past that I had respect for you for putting your butt on the line whether or not I actually agreed with the context or content. We breathe the same air whether or not I agree with you we are no better than each other. It's all opinion.

    And there is a saying out there (perhaps you've heard it):

    "If someone says you're a nice person, then that is only because God has granted you the gift of keeping your thoughts private."

    Think about it.

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  46. FM, it's on the way.

    I don't have to think about anything. If you knew anything about me, which you seem to think you do, I say EXACTLY what I think, when I think it. I have no reason to keep my thoughts private. As far as you respecting me, yeah, I believe that about as far as I can throw my house with my left hand.

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  47. I am sorry you feel that way Ainsworth.

    Ainsworth, I don't believe for a second that anyone that claims to be a responsible adult can say that they "say exactly exactly what they think when they think it". Come on. There is a word called "discernment" out there. One of it's meaning could be thinking about what you say before you say it. If I were to take you at your word then all of your thoughts are correct all the time and you have know need for discernment before speaking them. There is only ONE person in history that was able to do that.

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  48. So let me get this straight, "hun".

    You're bent out of sorts over a comment, but it's quite alright for you to flat out lie?

    You never addressed how YTB is saving $300K in one month, for laying off 25, (actually 17) people.

    Come on "Merit Boy"...what gives?

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  49. FM, I just got off the phone with someone at the Rabbinical council in my area, and they told me that what we have been discussing is a question that has haunted the ages. Maybe I shouldn't have said "racial", and instead they suggested that I should have said "ethnic", but it's still just as bad. There is an ethnic slur in Dougies blog, and it makes me at least, question everything else he has to say.

    OK, you got me. I weigh the words I use, but I still say what I think. And I don't think things that are ethnic, or racial, slurs. If I think someone is an idiot, I will say so. If I think an action is misguided, I will say so.

    Anonymous, what the hell are you on about? Who is lying, and about what? Until you use a "name" you really are making no sense whatsoever.

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  50. Hey, it's no problem for me to post it here although I was forced to go over and read his blog till I found it. It's not a racial slur since the Jewish people are Caucasian. It's a religious slur and a generalization of Jews being cheap. It is in fact very offensive but so is Travel Pro. He said, "I don’t know about Sue being my new best friend, but with a last name like Goldstein, would you expect anything other than frugal?" Why didn't he just use the term, "Jew them down?" Too bad he's typical of the YTB mentality of Christianity and "Coach" is God. And by the way, Sue is a YTB rep and RTA. Go figure! (Look it up yourself on the YTB bonus crap.)

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  51. First off, I am Jewish and not offended by Doug's comment. Second, Ainsworth is entitled to his opinion and if he feels that Doug's comments now lack merit because of an ethnic slur that is his prerogative.
    Third, I personally know 4 Sue Goldsteins so because a Sue Goldstein is listed in the bonuses doesn't mean it is the same one.
    And if it is the same Sue Goldstein why did she give CNN a RTA site to link to that wasn't hers?
    And NMH, there is a difference between cheap and frugal. And, yes Jews are traditional frugal and that is why many jews are good business people and it is also why the MAJORITY of CEOs are Jewish depsite only 2% of the population is Jewish.

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  52. Ainsworth said:
    Anonymous, what the hell are you on about? Who is lying, and about what? Until you use a "name" you really are making no sense whatsoever.

    That’s what happens when you lie like that. You don’t remember what you said.

    Go back to Friday’s post.

    “If you add back in the salaries of the 25 laid off people, it would add up to more than the $326,636 in income from operations, I'm sure, and that would be a negative.”

    The layoffs didn’t occur until August 29th, 30 days before the end of the quarter.
    There were 17 people laid off, not 25.

    Based on those facts, each employee was paid $19K per month.

    No need to respond, you’ve been exposed as a liar and a fraud right here on this blog.

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  53. Josh, of course you wouldn't be offended, because you consider anything that comes out of Doug's mouth to be the word of God, just like that of Coach.

    I read the sentence to the lady working at the office of the local Rabbinical council, and she was offended, just as I am. She was Jewish, I'm not, and I bet you can find a lot of Jewish people out there that WOULD be offended, as well as non-Jews. I may not be the most "politically correct" person in the world, but there are some lines that just don't get crossed, and slurs regarding one's race, religion, ethnicity, or sexual preference are the lines. The point is, why would he even bring up that nasty stereotype?

    Actually, the point of today is ytb's latest financials, which in the long run, are dismal. The company is over $3M in the red, with little hope of making it up.

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  54. I just realized who "Anonymous" is. It's one of those two over on Scam.com, either Iris or YesUR, can't remember which one, but she left a clue.

    Anywho.....yes, that is what I stated BEFORE I took the time to read the entire report. Afterwards, I made restatements, just today as a matter of fact. Of course, Anonymous didn't read that, so I will say it again.

    If ytb hadn't laid off those people, their "profit" wouldn't be as high as it is. If ytb hadn't held off report income from previous quarters, their "profit" wouldn't be as high. Anonymous, please, I implore you, go and read the ENTIRE report, and not just the parts you want to. If you read the entire report, you will find it more telling than just the numbers.

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  55. Ainsworth, I am not offended and it has nothing to do with who said it. I don't let silly little comments from people bother me. Period. Do I think Doug should have said it? No. But, I personally, was not offended.

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  56. No one named anonymous can tell anyone anything.

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  57. "No need to respond, you’ve been exposed as a liar and a fraud right here on this blog."

    Anon - Seriously. I am on the same side as you but when you call people "liars" and "frauds" you are of the same mentality that many of them use. Keep it real.

    "Actually, the point of today is ytb's latest financials, which in the long run, are dismal. The company is over $3M in the red, with little hope of making it up."

    Dismal in the long run? The long run hasn't even taken place yet. That is your hopeful thinking.

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  58. And today, on top of the bad financials, the stock closed at 0.3750, the lowest it has been in 52 weeks! At one point, it was down to 0.35.

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  59. firemedic said... Dismal in the long run? The long run hasn't even taken place yet. That is your hopeful thinking.


    FM, YTD the company has a LOSS of over $3M. You honestly think that in 1 quarter they are going to make that up plus enough to make a decent profit to pay off investors? The stock continues to drop, today closing at the lowest in a year.

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  60. "If ytb hadn't laid off those people, their "profit" wouldn't be as high as it is."

    Ainsworth, I don't understand why you keep using this statement as though it has some sort of merit and helps your side. Laying off people when times are tough is called responsible business. It's a moot argument and has no real validity for you. When people make changes to their budgets when needed, it's called business.

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  61. "FM, YTD the company has a LOSS of over $3M. You honestly think that in 1 quarter they are going to make that up plus enough to make a decent profit to pay off investors? The stock continues to drop, today closing at the lowest in a year."

    Not worried about it.

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  62. firemedic said...
    "If ytb hadn't laid off those people, their "profit" wouldn't be as high as it is."

    Ainsworth, I don't understand why you keep using this statement as though it has some sort of merit and helps your side. Laying off people when times are tough is called responsible business. It's a moot argument and has no real validity for you. When people make changes to their budgets when needed, it's called business.


    FM, exactly the point. To make part of the profit that ytb did this past quarter, they had to lay off people. If they continued to pay those people, the amount in the "+" column wouldn't be what it is, it would be lower. In essence, laying off those people helped them making their profit. They had to resort to what some might see as extreme measures to make a little bit of a profit.

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  63. firemedic said...
    "FM, YTD the company has a LOSS of over $3M. You honestly think that in 1 quarter they are going to make that up plus enough to make a decent profit to pay off investors? The stock continues to drop, today closing at the lowest in a year."

    Not worried about it.


    If you don't want to worry, that's up to you, but if I were involved with a company that was over $3M in the red with only 1 quarter left in the year to make that up, was losing people, and was selling off assets at a loss that have been owned for 1 year or less, I'd be VERY worried.

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  64. Well if the figures were so darn hunky dory for YTB why is the stock down to .3750?

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  65. First of all, why do you think that YTB has to make it up in the next quarter? If they don't, what difference does that make? The long haul isn't determined by a single quarter or an annual report. It's a gauge.

    And Anon, (according to the posters here you don't matter since you won't use a real screen name, but hey, I'll humor you) What does the one day stock price have to do with anything? It's a single snap shot in time. That's it. I am a paramedic and when I take a blood pressure that's bad, it doesn't mean anything for the long run. It's just a snapshot in time. There are a lot of companies down right now. But I understand Anon. It's down so it's good for you. So the next time it goes up, say by 20%, will we be hearing that in positive terms? Nah.

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  66. Firemedic...what does it mean for the long run for a patient who has a pulse of zero?

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  67. If someone has zero pulse they would make a very good YTB REP? I hear there are plenty of those do nothing, zero pulsers in the company.

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  68. "Firemedic...what does it mean for the long run for a patient who has a pulse of zero?"

    Guess you will have to qualify your statement. If a person has a pulse of zero for a long time, they die, in most cases. Simple enough. But if a person simply has a pulse of zero, that doesn't necessarily mean anything in that moment. We actually have a man in my district that doesn't have a pulse, ever, but is still alive. What's your point John?

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  69. "If someone has zero pulse they would make a very good YTB REP? I hear there are plenty of those do nothing, zero pulsers in the company."

    Better yet they make great prospects for ACCORN!

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  70. Anonymous said...
    Well if the figures were so darn hunky dory for YTB why is the stock down to .3750?


    Hello all! Nice to "see" you again......lol

    I really can't believe you all are talking about SOME things none of us can change. You're asking why the stock is so low, why the income is low, why the bottom line looks bleak.

    WOW, we're in a recession. EVERYONE's bottom line is low right now!! The entire stock market closed at a low today. Many companies are laying off people. Many companies are filing for bankruptcy. Many companies are closing/merging. Many companies are even foregoing their year end bonuses. Many companies are asking to be included in the government's "bail out plan". And you seriously won't even take that into consideration when trashing YTB??

    I have confidence that YTB will do as well as any other travel company out there in these tough economic times. So far, I haven't suffered. We'll see.

    Again, nice being here. Stay safe!

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  71. Nice way to try and deflect Denyse, but if you look at the mainstay of the travel industry, the Big 5 airlines, you will see that ALL of them closed UP today. Go check....DAL, AMR, UAL, CAL, and LCC.

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  72. There is no deflection Margaret. It is what it is. Did I mention an airline?

    Wow, aren't you lucky! Let's take CAL for example. It DID close UP today, but it has certainly been UP and DOWN. It's been up to just over $32 but its now just over $11. AND, if you look just to this past Friday, ALL of the major airlines declined 4-6%, according to Christopher Hinton. So, who's deflecting now?

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  73. Why do people always through out red herrings....

    YTB is about the RTAs. The money comes from their sign up fees and from their monthly fees.

    The numbers have started to nosedive.

    The fact that YTB is wasting tons of money due to Coach and his Cronies follies - is just a side issue. Losing 400,000 on the jet after just 8 months. The 300,000 lost with the attempted aquisition. The 300,000 or so lost on buying th building then turning around and selling it. The millions lost on the foam statue.... Those are just side issues.

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  74. A one day closing number means...not much.

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  75. On January 7th YTB closed at $1.05. It's largest peak this year was back in March 31, when it closed at $3.68. The stock has steadily declined since that that with only two minor peaks. Have you looked at a chart of the stock for the enitre year Denyse? It fell under $1.00 in early August and has been on a decline ever since then. This has nothing to do with any recession. For many months this year, the stock has hovered at around $1.00 a share (slightly up or down) long before there was any thought of a recession. In fact, I tracked the stock daily of in the last several months and when the Dow went up, YTB went down. I also compared YTB to S&P and Nasdaq when they rose, and found the same scenario in YTB dropping.

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  76. Many of you have accused Steve of running the numbers through the spin cycle, but it looks like JR. agreed that they weren't very good.

    “While we are disappointed by the reduction in our net income, we are also aware that much of the softness we are seeing is reflective of both an industry-wide trend and a difficult comparison to last year’s explosive growth,” Scott Tomer, chief executive of YTB, said in a statement. He said YTB has maintained a strong marketing presence, and invested in the resources and infrastructure necessary to ensure the continued success of the business."

    I like how he referred to it as "softness" like it was a freaking pillow or something. You can read more about it here. Its the article with the big headline that says "YTB sees 3q profit fall by 87%. But feel free to accuse the paper of spin as well. http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2008/11/17/daily15.html

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  77. In My Humble Opinion....... said...
    There is no deflection Margaret. It is what it is. Did I mention an airline?

    Wow, aren't you lucky! Let's take CAL for example. It DID close UP today, but it has certainly been UP and DOWN. It's been up to just over $32 but its now just over $11. AND, if you look just to this past Friday, ALL of the major airlines declined 4-6%, according to Christopher Hinton. So, who's deflecting now?


    No, you didn't mention an airline, but you did say the ENTIRE stock market closed down today. Just showing you that no, it didn't.

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  78. firemedic said...
    A one day closing number means...not much.


    It does when it's the first day of trading after it's quarterly report comes out. And it means something when it closes at the lowest it has been in a year. And it means something when it has been on a decline for a looooooong time.

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  79. Anonymous said...
    Ainsworth said:
    Anonymous, what the hell are you on about? Who is lying, and about what? Until you use a "name" you really are making no sense whatsoever.

    That’s what happens when you lie like that. You don’t remember what you said.

    Go back to Friday’s post.

    “If you add back in the salaries of the 25 laid off people, it would add up to more than the $326,636 in income from operations, I'm sure, and that would be a negative.”

    The layoffs didn’t occur until August 29th, 30 days before the end of the quarter.
    There were 17 people laid off, not 25.

    Based on those facts, each employee was paid $19K per month.

    No need to respond, you’ve been exposed as a liar and a fraud right here on this blog.

    Nov 17, 2008 4:09:00 PM


    I've been thinking about this post from Anonymous (either Iris or YesUR on Scam.com, who is too afraid to use their name here), and I went back to check on what I said, because the quote attributed to me didn't quite seem right, and guess what, it isn't.

    If you go back and read what I said, I never stated that the layoff of any people was the sole reason for ytb showing any type of profit for Q3. In actuallity, it was only part of what I said. What I actually said was that the only reason that ytb showed any type of profit in Q3 was that they didn't have to pay for 2 ill conceived whole ship charters that they had to pay for, and by saving the salary of the laid off people. Yes, I did say 25 people, but in several of the news articles the stated amount of people laid off was, in fact, 25.

    So, Anonymous, by deliberately misquoting me, it is YOU that has been proven to be a liar and a fraud right here on this blog.

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  80. Ains, I am sure it's YESURALoser from Scam. She hasn't been around much on there because everyone put her on ignore. She has posted the same stalking crap about John on there as she did twice here today. It's her. Her M.O. is pretty obvious. I saw something on a broom flying by earlier when she posted as well. lol

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  81. Wow, I work late and then go straight to a Boy Scout Committee meeting and look at the arguements flare up!

    1) For a company to cut costs when things aren't going so well, including laying people off, is normal business. It is indicitive of problems and management reacting to them. But it is business.

    2) Focusing on this quarter's income, or YTD loss, is not significant in and of itself. Take a look at some of the other numbers that are a lot more important. First is retained earnings, or in this case a deficit of ($22,637,658). That is the total loss for the company to date, and it is growing. Look at total Stockholder Equity and how it is shrinking. Most important, look at Cash on Hand. It has shrunk from almost $4.5 Million to just over $.5 Million in 9 months. This is after finally selling the Auction Rate Securities they couldn't sell for some time, raising an additional $1 Million. It is this cash hemmorage that YTB has to get through if they are to survive.

    3) Look at page 25 of the latest 10-Q. For the last 9 months, the Marketing business is reporting income of $2.2 Million. The Travel business is reporting income of $4.1 Million, and the Parent Company shows a loss of $9.8 Million. Why aren't the stockholders raising heck with the Board of Directors and calling for heads to roll? Obviously the main office is wasting all kinds of money and causing the main businesses to fail. Oh yeah, the Board of Directors are the controlling stockholders and why should they vote themselves out. They can just bleed the business dry for their own personal benefit. That's why.

    4. I am sick and tired of all the name calling and other crap from everyone that has commented. Why can't we all just debate the facts? Read the financials and debate what you see. Maybe you have a different interpretation than I do. If so, state it and back it up with what you found there. All this bickering just distracts from the debate.

    I'll get down off my soapbox now.

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  82. "
    4. I am sick and tired of all the name calling and other crap from everyone that has commented. Why can't we all just debate the facts? Read the financials and debate what you see. Maybe you have a different interpretation than I do. If so, state it and back it up with what you found there. All this bickering just distracts from the debate.

    I'll get down off my soapbox now."

    Amen to that Steve. That's what sucks about most forums and blogs like this. When it gets to the point that one doesn't really have anything to offer, they offer up insults and attacks. Are you listening AT/Kit?

    Steve, you made the comment about people jumping on the board for "wasting" money. With all the numbers you stated, you don't mention anything about the fact that they have invested $30 million in infrastructure in the last year. With that, along with the bad press and economy, it's no surprise. But knowing YTB, not just knowing about, gives bigger picture. (Now I know someone will jump on that but hey) As much as I respect you, you totally have no clue as to what goes on at YTB other than what you try to put together in the press releases and SEC filings.

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  83. I agree with that Steve.

    The $30 million in infrastructure was not accounted for as Firemedic says. They don't owe a dime on that. That also has to be included in the equation and detracts from the profits.

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  84. And sorry to get off subject but guess who Margaret is? Thought you no longer read Doug's blog Ainsworth?

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  85. "Who is Margaret??"

    Check this out Denyse:

    http://www.justpictureitnow.com/2008/11/15/surprise/

    Read the comments from Margaret and then Doug's response.

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  86. Actually whatever has been invested in infrastructure is included. It is part of the company assets. Even with that, the stockholder equity is only $15+ Million due to all the money lost.

    My definition of waste included items such as money lost on real estate that didn't need to be purchased, money lost on a plane that didn't need to be purchased, money spent on a foam statue that nobody wants, full cruise ship charters that they couldn't sell, and stuff like that.

    Other than the new headquarters, business processing equipment and the like, I'm not sure what this $30 million infrastructure investment could be. Either way, it has put the company in a very bad cash position now that new travel store sales have fallen off.

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  87. Whats all this talk about YTB being hurt by recession? Baloney! Coach himself said by purchasing 50.00 worth of CDs each YTBite can 'recession proof' their business. If you can do, so can Coach! Please buy more CDs.

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  88. Well Josh, I AM Jewish and I am VERY offended! As for the racial vs. ethnic slur discussion - it depends on the audience. Please ask Geobbels whether it is "racial" or "ethinic" and he would've come back with "racial". As the Neo-Nazis - they'll come back with "racial". Ask someone a bit more educated and grounded in the real world and they'll come back with "religious" - not "ethnic". There are perhaps 6-7 different "ethnicities" among Jews depending upon where their ancestors came from. And in this case, I suspect Doug is coming from the stereotype of "New York Jew". It doesn't really matter whether it is "ethnic" or "racial" - it's still prejudiced and disgusting and offensive, thank you.

    HereToExposeYou

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  89. I'm sorry, but this is just funny:

    "In a move indicative of YTB's rapid growth and success in travel sales, Sorensen has been awarded an even greater leadership role with YTB International, Inc. Sorensen was named by industry publication Travel Weekly as one of the 33 most influential people in the travel industry in America for 2007 and invited to participate in Travel Weekly's Virtual Leisure Summit panel in October. "Over the past eight years Kim has led YTB to the forefront in the travel industry," said J, Scott Tomer, CEO. "He continues to bring innovation to YTB, including online travel training by Marc Mancini and the upcoming launch of our new booking engine." Kim remains President and CEO of subsidiary YTB Travel Network."


    It should read - "in recognition of the fact that Coach has screwed up big time, he's going to try to blame everything on Kim when it falls apart1"

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  90. Where exactly did we get the idea that YTB has invested 30 million dollars this year in infrastructure?

    Is this another one of those empty claims we hear about, where all the YTBrs believe it to be true because it sounds good, but no one can find any evidence of it?

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  91. If Coach said he invested 30 million then he did! No proof necessary.

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  92. I, for one, would really like to see a breakdown of that 30 million dollar figure and exactly what it was spent on. He sure didn't spend that much on any new software, new websites or any training materials. Those costs can be pretty well estimated by anyone owning a company who has done those types of upgrades. What does that figure include exactly??? What is lumped in there??? I think THAT would be very telling.

    Shouldn't inventors know the specifics of this huge amount of money spent??? What's the big secret??? Why is there no breakdown and accounting for all these millions???

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  93. FM, you and Doug aren't as smart as you think you are. Yes, I know who Margaret Kelley is. She is my business partner and she is also our housemate. We share a wireless network here in the house, therefore we share an IP address, so yes, anything that she posts anywhere would trace back to the same IP as anything that I may post. You see, out entire house is wireless, so anything that is done on any of the 5 computers in the house traces back to the same IP. No great mystery, no subterfuge, no conspiracy. Just your overactive, paranoid imaginations running rampant.

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  94. Right Ainsworth! Did it take you all night to figure out how to get around this one? So you, Margaret, and Joe all live in the same house? What a crock dude!

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  95. FM, in your immortal word....whatever. There are 6 living beings that live in my house. Me, my partner Scott, our friend Margaret (or Peggy, as she prefers to be called), our Pitt Bull named Lacey, our Irish Wolfhound named Fuzz, and our yellow Lab named Boudreaux.

    As I said, your paranoia is showing. I realize that you'll believe whatever is convienent and easiest for you to believe, just like you believe that ytb is a strong and growing company. Knock yourself out, bud.

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  96. Sorry Ainsworth, I didn't see any of these people in the background of your video. Wait, what video? It's gone! Why? Whatever Joemargsworth! LOL! This just goes to show you that there are a lot less people reading this blog than there are actually names on here. That's because most of the people are Joemargsworths or AT/Kits. Hillarious!

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  97. Ainsworth - if you spent vitually every day and night defending scammers like YTb, you would be paranoid too. If they were'nt afraid of the truth being told, they would never say a thing. You wonder when they have time to recruit or sell travel. Well, recruit anyway.
    I say, boys, go sell some Cds and stop worrying what we believe or not.

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  98. Oh, Conrad. The video is gone, because it has served its purpose. No one else was in it because it was made in the room that is my home office, while my partner was at his job, and Peggy was at her full time job. See, if you knew anything about me, you would know that I am the only one that stays home during the day. See, if you knew anything about me, you would know that I retired from full time work 5 years ago, and only work part time now, with a select client list, and only when I want to.

    You're grasping at straws again, trying to discredit me, as well as others, in your desperation to prove that ytb is all that and a bag of chips. Keep trying. You and Doug, both, because the more you try, the more foolish you make yourselves look.

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  99. OK, I think we have exhausted this topic. I will be closing the comments now

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